Originally posted by Rha-EL WoW is casual because you CAN make 60 in a week, maybe even less than a week if you got a twink helping out dual boxing. Its the most carebear game I have ever heard of, no penalties for PvPing whatsoever makes it unappealing and pointless. Try Lineage 2, the epitome of hardcore and PvP. You want to know what hardcore means? This game is hardcore. WoW can't touch it. cheers, Rha http://www.lineage2.com
So instead...let's play a crappy PKing grindfest where you can NEVER get to max level because the company raises max level whenever someone gets near it so their subscriptions don't get low. Instead of like Blizzard who actually puts in NEW content.
Yes...let's do that...and while we're at it...why don't we play any of the billions of Korean-style, mouseclick to move (eeeeeeeew!!!), no-quests, no-skills, 50 hours to get to lvl 10 (and pick your first non-vagrant profession) clone-MMOs that are out there...AND FREE.
i don't think anyone can argue that wow is a awsome game, but if you play it alot it will get old to alot of people. will everyone get bored of the wow endgame? well no but if you play the same instance over and over with a small reward for hours a day it will.
it did for me, i did everything i could to make the game fun for me....i made almost 4 lvl 60 alts and im just tired of making alts. like i said before if u play this game casually there is no game better, but if you are a power gamer it will get old really fast for some people.
pluss i will say (depending on what server) the community takes its toll on you. i was on a pvp server with 2 of my alts and i hated it. just go to dethecus realm forums on the wow official website and you will see where im coming from.
i cant stand people that act like that and i left so many guilds because almost every guild has their fair share of people that act like they are 12...i hate that!
however i also have 2 alts on a rp server and if they ever let me transfer my alts there maybe ill come back...
Originally posted by Rha-EL Also what the hell are you some fcking racist prick? A game is a game. So if its played by lots of koreas so fcking what? Or do you forget that the STARCRAFT and WARCRAFT the games are also played by a bunch of koreans. STFU dumb ass.
CHILL OUT! I have nothing at all against Koreans. I said..."Korean-style" MMOs...it's a way to identify a game with the same general features that are in most Korean MMOs. Whoa...I knew I should have put it differently...trust me...you couldn't get anyone LESS racist than me! If you took my meaning wrong...well I'm sorry.
OK...maybe I didn't give LII much of a chance (but I generally make a quick decision early on in a game as to whether I will like it or not down the track...before I get 6 months in and realize I've wasted my time), maybe it is better now. But WoW has certainly got new content, it's mainly high-level, but then it didn't need lower level content cause it already had that.
And COME ON! 2 weeks of casual play to get to level 60 in WoW, so by casual play you must mean 16 hours a day. It takes at least 6 or 7 days GAME time to get anywhere near level 60, if you can do that in 2 weeks then I seriously challenge the assumption that you (or the "people" you speak of) are casual gamers.
Originally posted by Rha-EL Also what the hell are you some fcking racist prick? A game is a game. So if its played by lots of koreas so fcking what? Or do you forget that the STARCRAFT and WARCRAFT the games are also played by a bunch of koreans. STFU dumb ass.
CHILL OUT! I have nothing at all against Koreans. I said..."Korean-style" MMOs...it's a way to identify a game with the same general features that are in most Korean MMOs. Whoa...I knew I should have put it differently...trust me...you couldn't get anyone LESS racist than me! If you took my meaning wrong...well I'm sorry.
OK...maybe I didn't give LII much of a chance (but I generally make a quick decision early on in a game as to whether I will like it or not down the track...before I get 6 months in and realize I've wasted my time), maybe it is better now. But WoW has certainly got new content, it's mainly high-level, but then it didn't need lower level content cause it already had that.
And COME ON! 2 weeks of casual play to get to level 60 in WoW, so by casual play you must mean 16 hours a day. It takes at least 6 or 7 days GAME time to get anywhere near level 60, if you can do that in 2 weeks then I seriously challenge the assumption that you (or the "people" you speak of) are casual gamers.
Dude being racist isnt funny. Don't make comments like that in the first place if you dont mean them. Saying sorry after the fact is just bull.
As for your other comments, it can be argued either way, its just a matter of perspective. I think I initially responded harshly to your asisnine reply, for that I apologize. But again, Lineage 2 is still better than WoW, for hardcore players.
Originally posted by Rha-EL Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by Rha-EL Also what the hell are you some fcking racist prick? A game is a game. So if its played by lots of koreas so fcking what? Or do you forget that the STARCRAFT and WARCRAFT the games are also played by a bunch of koreans. STFU dumb ass. CHILL OUT! I have nothing at all against Koreans. I said..."Korean-style" MMOs...it's a way to identify a game with the same general features that are in most Korean MMOs. Whoa...I knew I should have put it differently...trust me...you couldn't get anyone LESS racist than me! If you took my meaning wrong...well I'm sorry. OK...maybe I didn't give LII much of a chance (but I generally make a quick decision early on in a game as to whether I will like it or not down the track...before I get 6 months in and realize I've wasted my time), maybe it is better now. But WoW has certainly got new content, it's mainly high-level, but then it didn't need lower level content cause it already had that. And COME ON! 2 weeks of casual play to get to level 60 in WoW, so by casual play you must mean 16 hours a day. It takes at least 6 or 7 days GAME time to get anywhere near level 60, if you can do that in 2 weeks then I seriously challenge the assumption that you (or the "people" you speak of) are casual gamers. Dude being racist isnt funny. Don't make comments like that in the first place if you dont mean them. Saying sorry after the fact is just bull. As for your other comments, it can be argued either way, its just a matter of perspective. I think I initially responded harshly to your asisnine reply, for that I apologize. But again, Lineage 2 is still better than WoW, for hardcore players. Rha
Wow.. talk not understanding somthing and Freaking out about it. Rha-EL, L2 is a korean mmorpg, its hundreds of time more popular there because it caters to their style more.. Grinding, Pking, point'n'click movement. Its designed with that gameing cultures preferences. Wow is Americanized, WASD movement, friendly enviroment, safer, less of a learning curve.
Wow is a Casual game for many reasons.
1) its really easy to get into In WoW you arent assigning stat points, you areant specializing your char you arent following a guide for character creation. WoW is Really simple to get into, they put you into the game and hold you hand, they assume nothing and they help people who might no have played many games before. There are not stats to place and talents arent even there untill the 10th level. There is no real way to "gimp" yourself, and all the problems are fixable with a little work, its a very forgiving game.
Games like Lineage II dont hold your hand as much, they overwhelm the poeple new to the genre. They are also confusing at the start becuase they throw a lot of things at you.
2) its really easy to put down You can play WoW for 30 min if thats all the time you got. You can just sit down, and 10 seconds later your char is safely done. Nothing too complex. In that 30min you can feel like youve accomplished somthing. and thats a big reaon its casual. In EQ2 There arent many circumstances where you could go on for 30 min and get somthing accomplished.
3) Solo friendly Sometimes people dont have the time, or the want to group. Sometimes they just want to go off on their own an level their character, thats a fact of life. In many games now that isnt an option, and if you dont want to deal with the stupidity of people, thats too bad, you have to do somthing else. WoW is very solo friendly, its not always the fastest way to get things done, but it can be done without being a complete waist of time, or damn near
4) Its ALMOST social acceptable Lotsa people play WoW, infact I would refer to it as the only socially acceptable mmorpg there is. There are a lot of stereotypes about games. People here GTA and they have no problem, they hear sports games and they have no problems. They here fantasy and they sorta go "err.. okay..." WoW is a game that a LOT of people play, and a lot of people think its fun. I have many friends who play it aevery odd day for an hour or two. I actually tell people I play WoW, a surprising amount of people go "cool what server, I got a *cough* on *cough*" WoW is more of a mainstream game that many people recognize and accept as a game thats not "creepy" to play.
Those are the main reasons I think WoW is a casual MMORPG, and these are also some of the reasons I love it. I also love it becuase if you want to play hardcore you can, with things like BWL and MC. Sadly I quit WoW about a month ago cause I havent had the time to commit to my guild, and the game isnt that fun without a guild at higher levels. But I still reccomend it to everyone.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Originally posted by saturn1234 What mmorpg is better than world of warcraft??? Tell me what it is with good support and I will subscribe immediately. Judging by your post you havent even played it very much. Do you know how addicting battlegrounds is with you guild at level 60. You make a raid group and queue up and it is probably the best mmorpg experience I have ever had. Especially Arathi Basin battleground. The end game PvP in my opinion makes up for a lot of negative aspects. The end game PvE is twisted and skewed by so many people for others. You do not have to run MC/Onyxia/ZG to get well geared. It is where you will find the BEST equipment. But 5 man content will do just fine, Scholomance, all these incredible fun and challenging instances get overlooked because people makes themselves believe that they are pidgeon-holed into raid instances.
I had a level 60 warrior when warriors were scarce on Spirestone, but then when Blizzard handed out nerfs they became the flavor of the week and started popping up everywhere. There's another problem right there but I wont get into it.
Battlegrounds was pretty fun when you teamed up with awesome people, but awesome people in WoW were rare. Most of the time I found myself with a team full of solo people and a few others that know what team work is. Also as a warrior PvP wasn't all that fun because we were so easily incapacitated by mages and undead mages were everywhere on Spirestone. CTF was fun, but Alterac was a big mess.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say, but there is a way to measure quality by comparison. I'm not going to tell you what game I think is the best and why because if you don't see it I wouldn't want you playing anyways. We've seen A LOT of new players in FFXI which have switched over from WoW and maybe it's coincidence, but there's been an influx of unskilled players as well. It's probably best for everybody if you stay where you are.
Umm I played Final Fantasy 11 for about 6 months BEFORE I played World of Warcraft, but thanks for the random insult. I loved that game for a long time, partially because I love Final Fantasy, partially because I got completely immersed into my community. A lot of people left, and when I lost that, the game slowly became unplayable for me. Looking for a group in that game was harsh and unforgiving at later levels, which I had to do because all of my connections were starting to fade away.
I stopped loving my character, a Mithra Bard/Thief, because every group pressured me to drop thief and grab white mage. So I started leveling white mage, and decided I could not go through the beginning/middle of the game again.
My main in WoW is a Nightelf Warrior, and I do agree that they are the flavor of the week right now for PvP...
That does get annoying when I played it back when they were "unplayable". But I still enjoy it. My server knows my skill in tanking and PvP, and I do not need to compete for spots.
Originally posted by Rha-EL Dude being racist isnt funny. Don't make comments like that in the first place if you dont mean them. Saying sorry after the fact is just bull.
As for your other comments, it can be argued either way, its just a matter of perspective. I think I initially responded harshly to your asisnine reply, for that I apologize. But again, Lineage 2 is still better than WoW, for hardcore players.
Rha
Friend I wasn't being racist, and I wasn't trying to be funny. I was using a TERM "Korean-style" to describe a particular type of game. It's not a style of game I like, hence my unflattering description of them; but Koreans as a race, I have no problem with them at all, and I hope they have no problems with me
The reason I appologised was because I was sorry that you misunderstood me, and I certainly would never want to be thought of (even by misinterpretation) as a racist.
Wow.. talk not understanding somthing and Freaking out about it. Rha-EL, L2 is a korean mmorpg, its hundreds of time more popular there because it caters to their style more.. Grinding, Pking, point'n'click movement. Its designed with that gameing cultures preferences. Wow is Americanized, WASD movement, friendly enviroment, safer, less of a learning curve.
Er, yeah I know L2 originated in Korea but WTF, why classify it as a "korean-style" mmorpg exactly? I've played EQ and Lineage 2. I dont see much difference except in Lineage 2 you have a more DIABLO style poing and click system that isn't JUST KOREAN. So don't say ignorant statements like this. There is no one "korean-style" just as there is no one "American-style" bullshit. oh and LIneage 2 DOES HAVE WASD movement. before you comment on a game, get a clue. Also WTF, so your saying having a "friendly-environment" is not korean? Now thats a racist comment if I EVER READ ONE. Safer? er its a pixel, virtual reality fcking game. How the hell is WoW more "safer" excactly than LIneage 2? And having "less of a learning curve" is totally subjective to the person trying the game, so dont try to pass that off as being "korean" too. Seriously you are the most ignorant poster I have read thus far.
Anyone who have tried multiple MMORPGs will tell you theres not much difference at all between all MMORPGs. So lineage 2 is focussed more on Hardcore players and WoW is more focussed on Carebears. Thats a fact and most people who are unbiased will tell you the exact same thing.
if you want a HARDCORE game that lasts awhile than play Lineage 2. If you wanna be a carebear and visit the land of the happy go lucky smurfs, than play WoW
Man, why do ppl get this worked up just because of a few games.
The funny thing is, all that talk about the childish WoW-community and in this thread it seems that the most immature fits come from ppl not playing WoW.
But ok, yes there are a lot of muppets in WoW, and why? Because its the most popular western-style mmorpg out there. WoW is the mainstream breakthru of mmorpgs in the west and therefore LOADS of WoW-players are new to mmorpgs and dont know anything about the different concepts in these games. And THATS why some people doesnt know the concept of teamwork, tanking, healing, crowdcontrol and aggromanaging. Many new mmorpg players are used to the fast and harsh chat, that you can find in FPS-multiplayer games, and they arent yet aware of the fact that you have to behave a bit differently in a mmorpg because of the different way these games uses servers. Dont call these people idiots, because how should they know about these things?! Plz try to see things from other perspectives than your own.
As for lineage2, it is indeed a hardcore-game, and thereby very much suited for the hardcore-player (and for some casual ones too). I really dont know how that carebear-term gets morphed into the casual-player-term..again, try to see things from another perspective than your own! I'm a very casual player and therefore i can only dedicate my preciuos free time to a game where i can get something done inside a certain timeframe, and WoW offers me that....Lineage2 didnt.
Dont be so goddamn narrowminded (see, now i got all worked up too..sigh ). Other people have different needs.
Btw, u might have noticed that i have used the term "Western-style mmorpgs"...as opposed to "Eastern-style" or "Asian-style" or narrowing it down "Korean-style". And why do we use these different terms? Is it because of racism, or is it because of the differences that often lay in between these mmorpgs and the cultures?. I suggest you do a google on '"korean style" mmorpg' and then start sending out letters to all the publishers, journalists, developers and advertising companies that use these terms..or you could ofcourse try to keep ur points on the arguments at hand instead of changing the subject to something completely irrelevant and uncalled for.
And please remember "Different folks, different strokes".
The OP was questioning the casual playability of WoW..I and others have just aired our opinion on why the game is casual, so that players with preferences like ours can become a part of the community.
This thread was about if Wow is casual or not. But then fanboys start to flock and write stuff that is totally offtopic. Rha-EL, who the f**k cares if you think L2 is better, when the thread is about if Wow is casual or not. And ofcourse when those fanboys have posted their shit the Wow fans gather to protect their game. If you want to say that Wow players are 14 year old assholes then first try to post something that has to do with the topic.
WoW is casual, but that is not a bad thing, in fact it is a good thing. Grinding is not fun unless a goal is realistically attainable in the near future, as it is in WoW.
I am a college student, and I work, yet I still have enough time to enjoy world of warcraft. 2 or 3 hours a day when I feel like it seems like plenty of time to me. So these "grind for 10 hours to get 1 level" games are not my style.
Its really annoying when somebody tells me I am braindead for this or when they say that a game I play and enjoy sucks because it is not their style. That is like me saying sports games suck because I do not enjoy playing them.
Originally posted by hadz Originally posted by scaramoosh People say the rest xp makes it for a casual gamer, tbh i get more dpuble XP on EQ2 where i can gain 2 levels from it like and it goes up alot faster than WOW's too! Having played both for quite a while I would definitely say that EQ2's rest system gives alot more "double-xp time" than WoW's. The thing that makes WoW a lot more casual friendly is that the levels require much less xp (compared to what mob-kills give you) and the quests give a lot greater xp than EQ2. Giving an example in the middle level ranges; at lvl 30 on my WoW Druid I could knock over 2 levels in less than 4 hours (from a fully rested state...and including a fair bit of running around for quests), while my lvl 25 Conjurer would take about 3 hours for one level (from fully rested...and just grinding mobs...not that I ever could catch up with rested % in EQ2 without playing for 6 to 8 hours straight). The problem is EQ2 also FEELS way more like grind than WoW does (mainly because of the ultra low quest rewards that render doing any quests virtually pointless...I mean when you can get 2% xp (in rested state) from a white 3-mob group that takes about 1 to 1.5 mins to kill solo, compared to 1% for a search/run quest that takes 10 to 20 mins). If you do EQ2's quests the game will take massively longer than just grinding. EDIT: This is dredged from my feeble long-term-memory so I'm sure the figures aren't exact, but they'd be pretty close. Damn TV made my...what was I talking about...
So you're saying that when you're doing EQ's quests you don't kill stuff along the way? No wonder you think they suck.
Just a hint: You aren't supposed to run through 3 zones as fast as possible without stopping. The quests are things to do but if you're just going from point a to point z without stopping along the way at b-y then you're missing half the fun of the game. Not saying the XP payout for quests in EQ2 isn't kind of low but for me the quests are something to do to have fun, not something to do to level.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
When you hit 60 in WoW, it's really hardcore. You gotta have a good guild to get into MC or BWL, you gotta do BG's all the time to get a good rank. So surely, at lvl 60 WoW feels like work.
My husband has several level 60 characters on WoW and does the Molten Core thingy and all that, and he has a good time. Personally, I can't be arsed to go through all that... I'm very casual in games these days. But why does it matter? There is no rule saying you MUST reach the level cap and you MUST take part in the high level end game content. If I choose not to, am I playing the game wrong? Am I mistaken in thinking that I'm having fun? What sort of crazy denial mental illness do I have that I can fool myself into thinking I'm enjoying myself in spite of not being a catass?
I would like to think that most people are like me. That the majority of gamers have fun playing what they play the way they want. I'm sure there are a lot of people who enjoy the being hardcore players. Why on earth would they bother playing games if they didn't enjoy it? And those people, even though they may be as far from casual as possible, are just like me, too, as long as they enjoy what they're doing.
Originally posted by scaramoosh People say the rest xp makes it for a casual gamer, tbh i get more dpuble XP on EQ2 where i can gain 2 levels from it like and it goes up alot faster than WOW's too!
Having played both for quite a while I would definitely say that EQ2's rest system gives alot more "double-xp time" than WoW's. The thing that makes WoW a lot more casual friendly is that the levels require much less xp (compared to what mob-kills give you) and the quests give a lot greater xp than EQ2. Giving an example in the middle level ranges; at lvl 30 on my WoW Druid I could knock over 2 levels in less than 4 hours (from a fully rested state...and including a fair bit of running around for quests), while my lvl 25 Conjurer would take about 3 hours for one level (from fully rested...and just grinding mobs...not that I ever could catch up with rested % in EQ2 without playing for 6 to 8 hours straight). The problem is EQ2 also FEELS way more like grind than WoW does (mainly because of the ultra low quest rewards that render doing any quests virtually pointless...I mean when you can get 2% xp (in rested state) from a white 3-mob group that takes about 1 to 1.5 mins to kill solo, compared to 1% for a search/run quest that takes 10 to 20 mins). If you do EQ2's quests the game will take massively longer than just grinding. EDIT: This is dredged from my feeble long-term-memory so I'm sure the figures aren't exact, but they'd be pretty close. Damn TV made my...what was I talking about...
So you're saying that when you're doing EQ's quests you don't kill stuff along the way? No wonder you think they suck.
Just a hint: You aren't supposed to run through 3 zones as fast as possible without stopping. The quests are things to do but if you're just going from point a to point z without stopping along the way at b-y then you're missing half the fun of the game. Not saying the XP payout for quests in EQ2 isn't kind of low but for me the quests are something to do to have fun, not something to do to level.
Um...if you read my post properly I didn't say ANYWHERE that EQIIs quests suck! I said they were pointless FOR XP! Because of the LOW ratio of quest to kill XP rewards.
And one other thing...you CAN'T run through 3 zones and kill everything along the way, half the time the stuff you're running past is either way below your lvl and gray (although the new con system makes a lot of stuff green, it's really just an annoyance as you get maybe .005% xp for killing one of those) or above your lvl and too risky to attempt by yourself. The whole thing with zones is that they are for different lvls. I didn't say the running quests take too long either, in fact, with the transport available in-game they don't take that long; it's the fact that they don't give ANYWHERE NEAR as much XP as killing mobs for the same amount of time would.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed EQII while I played it, my point was that WoW is more for casual gamers (ie. quicker to lvl in shorter amounts of time) than EQII. Which, if you'll look at the heading, is the TOPIC of this post.
Originally posted by Rha-EL Er, yeah I know L2 originated in Korea but WTF, why classify it as a "korean-style" mmorpg exactly? I've played EQ and Lineage 2. I dont see much difference except in Lineage 2 you have a more DIABLO style poing and click system that isn't JUST KOREAN. So don't say ignorant statements like this. There is no one "korean-style" just as there is no one "American-style" bullshit. oh and LIneage 2 DOES HAVE WASD movement. before you comment on a game, get a clue. Also WTF, so your saying having a "friendly-environment" is not korean? Now thats a racist comment if I EVER READ ONE. Safer? er its a pixel, virtual reality fcking game. How the hell is WoW more "safer" excactly than LIneage 2? And having "less of a learning curve" is totally subjective to the person trying the game, so dont try to pass that off as being "korean" too. Seriously you are the most ignorant poster I have read thus far. Anyone who have tried multiple MMORPGs will tell you theres not much difference at all between all MMORPGs. So lineage 2 is focussed more on Hardcore players and WoW is more focussed on Carebears. Thats a fact and most people who are unbiased will tell you the exact same thing. if you want a HARDCORE game that lasts awhile than play Lineage 2. If you wanna be a carebear and visit the land of the happy go lucky smurfs, than play WoW Thats all theres to it. Rha
Honestly, you need to settle down, you are making an idiot of yourself. Gaming is different in different parts in the world. Koreans prefer different things in their game thats a fact of life.. Koreans also eat different food. Is it racist for me to call it Korean food? Korean Clothing, or Korean Pop-Culture? Its called Cultural differences.. Look at the cartoons the Japanese watch, look at the movies.. look at the languages they speak, the art thats popular, the cloths styles...
For gods sake, im not a racist, and im not ignorant, you need to stop and realize that your making a complete idiot of yourself
"oh and LIneage 2 DOES HAVE WASD movement. before you comment on a game, get a clue" oh i know it does, its an option, but if you look at things Koreans generally have in their games, their society is much more used to point and click. For an example look at RF online. The game was translated but its still not in America, why? Becuase they are adding things like WASD movement, as well as tuning the amount of grinding and the penalities.
So please, next time before you make a post throwing wild accusations of racism and telling people they dont know what they are talking about. Stop, realize your wrong, and you dont know what you are talking about. There is only think worse than a person who doesnt know what hes talking about, and its a person who doesnt know what hes talking about and refuses to admit it.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Originally posted by Rha-EL blah blah blah (snip) Maybe you should actually research what your trying to pulling out of your ass. Your whole argument that POINT and CLICK is a korean phenomenon already shows what a n00b you are and how ignorance get breed people like you who make generalized racist comments about games for fcks sake. Rha
Oh yeah...this reminds me why I don't play "hardcore" games...because of the "hardcore" people who make statements like this when someone is trying to explain a point. Thx for the reminder...looks like I won't even be bothering with ANY of the "hardcore" games that are coming out (and the hardcorers all cheer in unison..."good riddance carebear"...ahahah) Have fun in your "hardcore" (but still mean nothing) games!
Originally posted by Rha-EL I still hear people quitting because theres nothing to do but instanced crap after they reach max level of 60 in like 2 weeks (at CASUAL PLAY).
Could you post *your* definition of "Casual Gameplay"?
Here is mine. I played WoW for the free 30 days and bought a 60 day card. Now, splitting this time between WoW and CoH, I got one Night Elf Hunter to 20th, one Night Elf Druid to 18th, and one Undead Warlock to 16th. I also created and tried out many, many other characters, at least one type of each race and class. 90 days. 20th level max. *I* am a casual player. I hardly ever make ONE character and grind it to the end, then make an alt. I'll try everything offered and see what I like playing best. Sometimes, this ends up being more than one toon.
Now, I will say that I never made a good connection to WoW's cartoonie artwork. I never got immersed in its world.
City of Heroes. I just now ended my subscription to it after playing about 18 months. Highest level hero there was a 38 scrapper. I also had a good 2-3 servers full of alts. I found a great supergroup where I rolled that scrapper and played him 2 nights a week for about 2-3 months on our sponsored "alt night". My main was passed early on, making it only to level 27 before the Archery set came and I re-rolled him. St. Valentine. Archery. I HAD to re-roll him!
People who say "I made max level in less than a month" are not, in my opinion, "casual players".
What is your definition of casual player?
EDIT Reading on to some of the other posts, I realize that I am talking about only "level time". I agree that WoW is about the most "casual game" out there now, but using the "get to 60 in a week or less" statement is not what being "casual" is all about. And even on a RP server, I get 2-5 PvP flags every hour I am online. If I wanted to PvP, I would go to a PvP server.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Seriously try to read this thread again, and put that racism-cannon away. You can call ppl "stupid" and "dumb arses" for all i care, but to mark others as racist is a seriuos matter (well to me it is). And there has been ABSOLUTELY no indication of racism from any poster in this thread.
Could an admin, have look at this post plz? I think we've covered the subject pretty clearly from both sides, and perhaps it should be locked? At least i'd like some of those nasty accusing posts deleted as they have contributed NOTHING to this subjet.
lol I give up, if this guys arguments were as strong as his words this would be fine. But he doenst even bother to explain why were wrong, he just insults us...
Which is just lame.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
- Rael believe God doesn't exist but it is extra-terrestial aliens.
- Rael religion mostly get recruits because it is a free sex all day long.
- Rael is prolly the worst little guy in France. (I like the french in general, but some are to the French what the cowboys are to americans).
RaR! Arguing with Rael is a complete waste of time, it is an attention whore. A journalist dress up like Rael once (like Jesus if you prefer, but with weird pro-alien drawings) and the bodyguards of Rael expel him.
Trust me, when you talk with Rael, check your back and keep your bums tight close!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
So instead...let's play a crappy PKing grindfest where you can NEVER get to max level because the company raises max level whenever someone gets near it so their subscriptions don't get low. Instead of like Blizzard who actually puts in NEW content.
Yes...let's do that...and while we're at it...why don't we play any of the billions of Korean-style, mouseclick to move (eeeeeeeew!!!), no-quests, no-skills, 50 hours to get to lvl 10 (and pick your first non-vagrant profession) clone-MMOs that are out there...AND FREE.
i don't think anyone can argue that wow is a awsome game, but if you play it alot it will get old to alot of people. will everyone get bored of the wow endgame? well no but if you play the same instance over and over with a small reward for hours a day it will.
it did for me, i did everything i could to make the game fun for me....i made almost 4 lvl 60 alts and im just tired of making alts. like i said before if u play this game casually there is no game better, but if you are a power gamer it will get old really fast for some people.
pluss i will say (depending on what server) the community takes its toll on you. i was on a pvp server with 2 of my alts and i hated it. just go to dethecus realm forums on the wow official website and you will see where im coming from.
i cant stand people that act like that and i left so many guilds because almost every guild has their fair share of people that act like they are 12...i hate that!
however i also have 2 alts on a rp server and if they ever let me transfer my alts there maybe ill come back...
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
CHILL OUT! I have nothing at all against Koreans. I said..."Korean-style" MMOs...it's a way to identify a game with the same general features that are in most Korean MMOs. Whoa...I knew I should have put it differently...trust me...you couldn't get anyone LESS racist than me! If you took my meaning wrong...well I'm sorry.
OK...maybe I didn't give LII much of a chance (but I generally make a quick decision early on in a game as to whether I will like it or not down the track...before I get 6 months in and realize I've wasted my time), maybe it is better now. But WoW has certainly got new content, it's mainly high-level, but then it didn't need lower level content cause it already had that.
And COME ON! 2 weeks of casual play to get to level 60 in WoW, so by casual play you must mean 16 hours a day. It takes at least 6 or 7 days GAME time to get anywhere near level 60, if you can do that in 2 weeks then I seriously challenge the assumption that you (or the "people" you speak of) are casual gamers.
CHILL OUT! I have nothing at all against Koreans. I said..."Korean-style" MMOs...it's a way to identify a game with the same general features that are in most Korean MMOs. Whoa...I knew I should have put it differently...trust me...you couldn't get anyone LESS racist than me! If you took my meaning wrong...well I'm sorry.
OK...maybe I didn't give LII much of a chance (but I generally make a quick decision early on in a game as to whether I will like it or not down the track...before I get 6 months in and realize I've wasted my time), maybe it is better now. But WoW has certainly got new content, it's mainly high-level, but then it didn't need lower level content cause it already had that.
And COME ON! 2 weeks of casual play to get to level 60 in WoW, so by casual play you must mean 16 hours a day. It takes at least 6 or 7 days GAME time to get anywhere near level 60, if you can do that in 2 weeks then I seriously challenge the assumption that you (or the "people" you speak of) are casual gamers.
Dude being racist isnt funny. Don't make comments like that in the first place if you dont mean them. Saying sorry after the fact is just bull.
As for your other comments, it can be argued either way, its just a matter of perspective. I think I initially responded harshly to your asisnine reply, for that I apologize. But again, Lineage 2 is still better than WoW, for hardcore players.
Rha
Wow.. talk not understanding somthing and Freaking out about it. Rha-EL, L2 is a korean mmorpg, its hundreds of time more popular there because it caters to their style more.. Grinding, Pking, point'n'click movement.
Its designed with that gameing cultures preferences.
Wow is Americanized, WASD movement, friendly enviroment, safer, less of a learning curve.
Wow is a Casual game for many reasons.
1) its really easy to get into
In WoW you arent assigning stat points, you areant specializing your char you arent following a guide for character creation.
WoW is Really simple to get into, they put you into the game and hold you hand, they assume nothing and they help people who might no have played many games before. There are not stats to place and talents arent even there untill the 10th level.
There is no real way to "gimp" yourself, and all the problems are fixable with a little work, its a very forgiving game.
Games like Lineage II dont hold your hand as much, they overwhelm the poeple new to the genre. They are also confusing at the start becuase they throw a lot of things at you.
2) its really easy to put down
You can play WoW for 30 min if thats all the time you got. You can just sit down, and 10 seconds later your char is safely done. Nothing too complex. In that 30min you can feel like youve accomplished somthing. and thats a big reaon its casual. In EQ2 There arent many circumstances where you could go on for 30 min and get somthing accomplished.
3) Solo friendly
Sometimes people dont have the time, or the want to group. Sometimes they just want to go off on their own an level their character, thats a fact of life. In many games now that isnt an option, and if you dont want to deal with the stupidity of people, thats too bad, you have to do somthing else.
WoW is very solo friendly, its not always the fastest way to get things done, but it can be done without being a complete waist of time, or damn near
4) Its ALMOST social acceptable
Lotsa people play WoW, infact I would refer to it as the only socially acceptable mmorpg there is.
There are a lot of stereotypes about games. People here GTA and they have no problem, they hear sports games and they have no problems.
They here fantasy and they sorta go "err.. okay..."
WoW is a game that a LOT of people play, and a lot of people think its fun. I have many friends who play it aevery odd day for an hour or two.
I actually tell people I play WoW, a surprising amount of people go "cool what server, I got a *cough* on *cough*"
WoW is more of a mainstream game that many people recognize and accept as a game thats not "creepy" to play.
Those are the main reasons I think WoW is a casual MMORPG, and these are also some of the reasons I love it. I also love it becuase if you want to play hardcore you can, with things like BWL and MC.
Sadly I quit WoW about a month ago cause I havent had the time to commit to my guild, and the game isnt that fun without a guild at higher levels. But I still reccomend it to everyone.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I had a level 60 warrior when warriors were scarce on Spirestone, but then when Blizzard handed out nerfs they became the flavor of the week and started popping up everywhere. There's another problem right there but I wont get into it.
Battlegrounds was pretty fun when you teamed up with awesome people, but awesome people in WoW were rare. Most of the time I found myself with a team full of solo people and a few others that know what team work is. Also as a warrior PvP wasn't all that fun because we were so easily incapacitated by mages and undead mages were everywhere on Spirestone. CTF was fun, but Alterac was a big mess.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say, but there is a way to measure quality by comparison. I'm not going to tell you what game I think is the best and why because if you don't see it I wouldn't want you playing anyways. We've seen A LOT of new players in FFXI which have switched over from WoW and maybe it's coincidence, but there's been an influx of unskilled players as well. It's probably best for everybody if you stay where you are.
Umm I played Final Fantasy 11 for about 6 months BEFORE I played World of Warcraft, but thanks for the random insult.
I loved that game for a long time, partially because I love Final Fantasy, partially because I got completely immersed into my community.
A lot of people left, and when I lost that, the game slowly became unplayable for me. Looking for a group in that game was harsh and unforgiving at later levels, which I had to do because all of my connections were starting to fade away.
I stopped loving my character, a Mithra Bard/Thief, because every group pressured me to drop thief and grab white mage. So I started leveling white mage, and decided I could not go through the beginning/middle of the game again.
My main in WoW is a Nightelf Warrior, and I do agree that they are the flavor of the week right now for PvP...
That does get annoying when I played it back when they were "unplayable". But I still enjoy it. My server knows my skill in tanking and PvP, and I do not need to compete for spots.
EDIT:
. I love it.
Munki I like your post
As for your other comments, it can be argued either way, its just a matter of perspective. I think I initially responded harshly to your asisnine reply, for that I apologize. But again, Lineage 2 is still better than WoW, for hardcore players.
Rha
Friend I wasn't being racist, and I wasn't trying to be funny. I was using a TERM "Korean-style" to describe a particular type of game. It's not a style of game I like, hence my unflattering description of them; but Koreans as a race, I have no problem with them at all, and I hope they have no problems with me
The reason I appologised was because I was sorry that you misunderstood me, and I certainly would never want to be thought of (even by misinterpretation) as a racist.
Peace
Wow.. talk not understanding somthing and Freaking out about it. Rha-EL, L2 is a korean mmorpg, its hundreds of time more popular there because it caters to their style more.. Grinding, Pking, point'n'click movement.
Its designed with that gameing cultures preferences.
Wow is Americanized, WASD movement, friendly enviroment, safer, less of a learning curve.
Er, yeah I know L2 originated in Korea but WTF, why classify it as a "korean-style" mmorpg exactly? I've played EQ and Lineage 2. I dont see much difference except in Lineage 2 you have a more DIABLO style poing and click system that isn't JUST KOREAN. So don't say ignorant statements like this. There is no one "korean-style" just as there is no one "American-style" bullshit. oh and LIneage 2 DOES HAVE WASD movement. before you comment on a game, get a clue. Also WTF, so your saying having a "friendly-environment" is not korean? Now thats a racist comment if I EVER READ ONE. Safer? er its a pixel, virtual reality fcking game. How the hell is WoW more "safer" excactly than LIneage 2? And having "less of a learning curve" is totally subjective to the person trying the game, so dont try to pass that off as being "korean" too. Seriously you are the most ignorant poster I have read thus far.
Anyone who have tried multiple MMORPGs will tell you theres not much difference at all between all MMORPGs. So lineage 2 is focussed more on Hardcore players and WoW is more focussed on Carebears. Thats a fact and most people who are unbiased will tell you the exact same thing.
if you want a HARDCORE game that lasts awhile than play Lineage 2. If you wanna be a carebear and visit the land of the happy go lucky smurfs, than play WoW
Thats all theres to it.
Rha
Man, why do ppl get this worked up just because of a few games.
The funny thing is, all that talk about the childish WoW-community and in this thread it seems that the most immature fits come from ppl not playing WoW.
But ok, yes there are a lot of muppets in WoW, and why? Because its the most popular western-style mmorpg out there. WoW is the mainstream breakthru of mmorpgs in the west and therefore LOADS of WoW-players are new to mmorpgs and dont know anything about the different concepts in these games. And THATS why some people doesnt know the concept of teamwork, tanking, healing, crowdcontrol and aggromanaging. Many new mmorpg players are used to the fast and harsh chat, that you can find in FPS-multiplayer games, and they arent yet aware of the fact that you have to behave a bit differently in a mmorpg because of the different way these games uses servers. Dont call these people idiots, because how should they know about these things?! Plz try to see things from other perspectives than your own.
As for lineage2, it is indeed a hardcore-game, and thereby very much suited for the hardcore-player (and for some casual ones too). I really dont know how that carebear-term gets morphed into the casual-player-term..again, try to see things from another perspective than your own! I'm a very casual player and therefore i can only dedicate my preciuos free time to a game where i can get something done inside a certain timeframe, and WoW offers me that....Lineage2 didnt.
Dont be so goddamn narrowminded (see, now i got all worked up too..sigh
). Other people have different needs.
Btw, u might have noticed that i have used the term "Western-style mmorpgs"...as opposed to "Eastern-style" or "Asian-style" or narrowing it down "Korean-style". And why do we use these different terms? Is it because of racism, or is it because of the differences that often lay in between these mmorpgs and the cultures?. I suggest you do a google on '"korean style" mmorpg' and then start sending out letters to all the publishers, journalists, developers and advertising companies that use these terms..or you could ofcourse try to keep ur points on the arguments at hand instead of changing the subject to something completely irrelevant and uncalled for.
And please remember "Different folks, different strokes".
The OP was questioning the casual playability of WoW..I and others have just aired our opinion on why the game is casual, so that players with preferences like ours can become a part of the community.
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This thread was about if Wow is casual or not. But then fanboys start to flock and write stuff that is totally offtopic. Rha-EL, who the f**k cares if you think L2 is better, when the thread is about if Wow is casual or not. And ofcourse when those fanboys have posted their shit the Wow fans gather to protect their game. If you want to say that Wow players are 14 year old assholes then first try to post something that has to do with the topic.
I am going to order Chinese food tonight,
OH NO I AM BEING SUPER RACIST, CALL THE POLICE.
People are such idiots sometimes.
WoW is casual, but that is not a bad thing, in fact it is a good thing. Grinding is not fun unless a goal is realistically attainable in the near future, as it is in WoW.
I am a college student, and I work, yet I still have enough time to enjoy world of warcraft. 2 or 3 hours a day when I feel like it seems like plenty of time to me. So these "grind for 10 hours to get 1 level" games are not my style.
Its really annoying when somebody tells me I am braindead for this or when they say that a game I play and enjoy sucks because it is not their style. That is like me saying sports games suck because I do not enjoy playing them.
So you're saying that when you're doing EQ's quests you don't kill stuff along the way? No wonder you think they suck.
Just a hint: You aren't supposed to run through 3 zones as fast as possible without stopping. The quests are things to do but if you're just going from point a to point z without stopping along the way at b-y then you're missing half the fun of the game. Not saying the XP payout for quests in EQ2 isn't kind of low but for me the quests are something to do to have fun, not something to do to level.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
When you hit 60 in WoW, it's really hardcore. You gotta have a good guild to get into MC or BWL, you gotta do BG's all the time to get a good rank. So surely, at lvl 60 WoW feels like work.
My husband has several level 60 characters on WoW and does the Molten Core thingy and all that, and he has a good time. Personally, I can't be arsed to go through all that... I'm very casual in games these days. But why does it matter? There is no rule saying you MUST reach the level cap and you MUST take part in the high level end game content. If I choose not to, am I playing the game wrong? Am I mistaken in thinking that I'm having fun? What sort of crazy denial mental illness do I have that I can fool myself into thinking I'm enjoying myself in spite of not being a catass?
I would like to think that most people are like me. That the majority of gamers have fun playing what they play the way they want. I'm sure there are a lot of people who enjoy the being hardcore players. Why on earth would they bother playing games if they didn't enjoy it? And those people, even though they may be as far from casual as possible, are just like me, too, as long as they enjoy what they're doing.
So you're saying that when you're doing EQ's quests you don't kill stuff along the way? No wonder you think they suck.
Just a hint: You aren't supposed to run through 3 zones as fast as possible without stopping. The quests are things to do but if you're just going from point a to point z without stopping along the way at b-y then you're missing half the fun of the game. Not saying the XP payout for quests in EQ2 isn't kind of low but for me the quests are something to do to have fun, not something to do to level.
Um...if you read my post properly I didn't say ANYWHERE that EQIIs quests suck! I said they were pointless FOR XP! Because of the LOW ratio of quest to kill XP rewards.
And one other thing...you CAN'T run through 3 zones and kill everything along the way, half the time the stuff you're running past is either way below your lvl and gray (although the new con system makes a lot of stuff green, it's really just an annoyance as you get maybe .005% xp for killing one of those) or above your lvl and too risky to attempt by yourself. The whole thing with zones is that they are for different lvls. I didn't say the running quests take too long either, in fact, with the transport available in-game they don't take that long; it's the fact that they don't give ANYWHERE NEAR as much XP as killing mobs for the same amount of time would.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed EQII while I played it, my point was that WoW is more for casual gamers (ie. quicker to lvl in shorter amounts of time) than EQII. Which, if you'll look at the heading, is the TOPIC of this post.
Honestly, you need to settle down, you are making an idiot of yourself.
Gaming is different in different parts in the world.
Koreans prefer different things in their game thats a fact of life..
Koreans also eat different food.
Is it racist for me to call it Korean food? Korean Clothing, or Korean Pop-Culture?
Its called Cultural differences.. Look at the cartoons the Japanese watch, look at the movies.. look at the languages they speak, the art thats popular, the cloths styles...
For gods sake, im not a racist, and im not ignorant, you need to stop and realize that your making a complete idiot of yourself
"oh and LIneage 2 DOES HAVE WASD movement. before you comment on a game, get a clue"
oh i know it does, its an option, but if you look at things Koreans generally have in their games, their society is much more used to point and click.
For an example look at RF online. The game was translated but its still not in America, why? Becuase they are adding things like WASD movement, as well as tuning the amount of grinding and the penalities.
So please, next time before you make a post throwing wild accusations of racism and telling people they dont know what they are talking about.
Stop, realize your wrong, and you dont know what you are talking about.
There is only think worse than a person who doesnt know what hes talking about, and its a person who doesnt know what hes talking about and refuses to admit it.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Oh yeah...this reminds me why I don't play "hardcore" games...because of the "hardcore" people who make statements like this when someone is trying to explain a point. Thx for the reminder...looks like I won't even be bothering with ANY of the "hardcore" games that are coming out (and the hardcorers all cheer in unison..."good riddance carebear"...ahahah) Have fun in your "hardcore" (but still mean nothing) games!
Peace
Here is mine. I played WoW for the free 30 days and bought a 60 day card. Now, splitting this time between WoW and CoH, I got one Night Elf Hunter to 20th, one Night Elf Druid to 18th, and one Undead Warlock to 16th. I also created and tried out many, many other characters, at least one type of each race and class. 90 days. 20th level max. *I* am a casual player. I hardly ever make ONE character and grind it to the end, then make an alt. I'll try everything offered and see what I like playing best. Sometimes, this ends up being more than one toon.
Now, I will say that I never made a good connection to WoW's cartoonie artwork. I never got immersed in its world.
City of Heroes. I just now ended my subscription to it after playing about 18 months. Highest level hero there was a 38 scrapper. I also had a good 2-3 servers full of alts. I found a great supergroup where I rolled that scrapper and played him 2 nights a week for about 2-3 months on our sponsored "alt night". My main was passed early on, making it only to level 27 before the Archery set came and I re-rolled him. St. Valentine. Archery. I HAD to re-roll him!
People who say "I made max level in less than a month" are not, in my opinion, "casual players".
What is your definition of casual player?
EDIT
Reading on to some of the other posts, I realize that I am talking about only "level time". I agree that WoW is about the most "casual game" out there now, but using the "get to 60 in a week or less" statement is not what being "casual" is all about. And even on a RP server, I get 2-5 PvP flags every hour I am online. If I wanted to PvP, I would go to a PvP server.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Rha-EL called me a racist for saying "Korean-style MMO" and it all went downhill from there...hehe.
BTW, still haven't received an apology for being called a racist with no cause.
Rha-el...im speechless.
Seriously try to read this thread again, and put that racism-cannon away. You can call ppl "stupid" and "dumb arses" for all i care, but to mark others as racist is a seriuos matter (well to me it is). And there has been ABSOLUTELY no indication of racism from any poster in this thread.
Could an admin, have look at this post plz? I think we've covered the subject pretty clearly from both sides, and perhaps it should be locked? At least i'd like some of those nasty accusing posts deleted as they have contributed NOTHING to this subjet.
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lol I give up, if this guys arguments were as strong as his words this would be fine.
But he doenst even bother to explain why were wrong, he just insults us...
Which is just lame.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Guys...do you realize that:
- Rael is the leader of a religion.
- Rael believe God doesn't exist but it is extra-terrestial aliens.
- Rael religion mostly get recruits because it is a free sex all day long.
- Rael is prolly the worst little guy in France. (I like the french in general, but some are to the French what the cowboys are to americans).
RaR! Arguing with Rael is a complete waste of time, it is an attention whore. A journalist dress up like Rael once (like Jesus if you prefer, but with weird pro-alien drawings) and the bodyguards of Rael expel him.
Trust me, when you talk with Rael, check your back and keep your bums tight close!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren