As I posted in another thread I think you got our man Ferox on a bad day, there has been a lot of trolling and I think a couple of you copped an unfair tongue lashing.
You make a really valid point about having carebear status thrust upon you with the MMO games that are on offer today and I hope RV will break that mould. I think RV combat and some of the nuances to avoid a gank fest will make this one of the best game playing experiences available. I've played a few MMO's but really I love FPS games & have been waiting for something to merge the 2 genres - that's when I found out about RV and from what I've read it's my dream come true. Furthermore I think RV does cater equally for the carebear and PvP'er - there is no reason you should have all your loot taken if you play the game to protect your assets, then I don't think you need suffer at all.
Anyways I really hope you stay with RV and get to experience a *real* MMO, as it should be.....
Originally posted by SquadBox Originally posted by Ferox(SM) listen people... the idea is simple... if you dont like full loot and free pvp. FOLLOW ANOTHER GAME. if you think full loot is silly, go play eq, why are you here complaining and hopeing the devs will change things? Trust me on this one that they will not. the ignorance of so many people on mmorpg.com is astounding. How many of you have actually PLAYED a game with full loot and free pvp? There has only ever been one and it was out before most of you played mmorpgs no doubt. If you started your mmorpg career with EQ or later, you just dont know and you only react from what you have heard from other carebears who heard from other carebears. If you can say your 27+ years old, have been in over 30 beta tests, and been playing mmorpgs since they existed... and you STILL dont like free pvp and full loot. Then I can enter into a debate with you because I know the person atleast has the background to know both ways. There are some people who cannot handle the freedom a game like UO, and RV give. That is why so many carebears complained and the UO devs stupidly listened to them. UO has been utter shit ever since. People are sheep, and they need a game like EQ and WOW to lead them by the hand with the rest of the heard, and make it seem like they actually accomplished something. UO and RV are true virtual worlds where there player impacts the game on a daily basis. RV is the most realistic mmo ive ever played, and I like it that way. Games like EQ and WOW are shallow illogical games that arent even virtual worlds. If you dont like the features of a game.. FOLLOW ANOTHER DAMNED ONE. I'll freely name myself a "carebear" simply because I was introduced to the world of online gaming with EQ and have only played one other MMOG (WoW) for any lengthy period of time. Now I do have my conscerns since I am only 21, only casually game, and did not have the good fortune to play this UO that I seen referenced to in so many forums. I would ask ,however, that our "carebear" conscerns not be met with such hostility. The reason I'm following RV is because I want to try a game that requires more skill than select target and press auto attack and has a little more risk. I'm assuming that most people who post with conscerns about pvp games are like myself. We wish to try a different aspect of gaming through pvp, since the others did not hold our interests for very long, and decide to ask on the forums and get a feel for it from the 27+ year olds, who have been fortunate/skilled enough to be in over 30 beta tests, and generally played MMOG's since their existance. Instead of getting a general discussion about the benefits from these games, and showing us the ignorance of our "carebear" ways, we tend to get met with the general "you don't know what you are talking about," or "go follow another game if you can't handle it" Again, help us to see how much better RV is than EQ and WoW and not simple tell us to go some where else. There really are a few of us "carebears" who wish to graduate from our training wheels.
*Goes to bunker and waits for forum assassination*
Very well put and thought out. I would like to offer you the fact that in games like UO and RV, everything can be made by the players. In this regard you are not putting the unbelievable amounts of time you might in a game like EQ to have to go camp for armor and fight monsters over and over. If you lose your stuff in RV it will not be that large of a blow, unless your walking around unarmed with no guards and carrying all kinds of expensive stuff or bags of money hehe.
The only exception to that may be if your a roman general like myself and you have all sorts of decked out armor on, but it would have to be a pretty bad rout of my troops for me to die and get fully looted in battle. But remember EVERYTHING can be made by the players, so whatever you lose you can make youself or know a friend you can buy it from very cheeply.
This is where it comes in what you said about playing something different, and smart. The fact that it IS dangerous to travel and you COULD lose your stuff will mean there will be more jobs available for the player. Merchants will need guards, and bandit players will try to take the stuff from them!
The economy actually NEEDS people to be fully looted. This is especially true for legions. Im looking at an exorbitant amount of money to train and equip 5000 players and npcs. I need to kill a lot of barbs and take their stuff to keep that going hehe. Barbs will have to raid a lot of roman settlements to keep their armies going to!
I am glad you wish to try some pvp(although rv is a HUGE jump from the pvp you know), my problem is that I hope that you do not wish to CHANGE the game becase of your concerns. I will be honest and tell you that when you play rv it may be a "culture shock" and you may get killed and be mad because of free pvp and full loot. It will be a "gank fest"(which is great... once you have tasted freedom that rv gives you will either be totally sold or run away), but if you TRUELY do want to try something with more depth (and yes free pvp and full loot add tons of depth in ways its hard to explain until you get into the game) then stick it out with a group of friends or join a legion, and You will be having fun in no time and see with open eyes how shallow and sheepish games like EQ and WOW really are.
The 24th will be patroling the roads and fighting those who wish to cause trouble for the empire. Now think about it, wtf would my legon be doing when there arent any wars if there was NO free pvp and full loot? It adds depth to the game and gives people more to do !. The PLAYERS rule themselves, defend themselves, THAT is the way of freedom, the way things SHOULD be.
Infact I personally extend and invitation to hang with me when you first get the game, until you get your berings straight and learn, because it WILL be a very different experience for you, and I would not want to lose a possible convert to the dark side(those dark carebears!)
_____________________________________________ "Old UO is now but a dream that will live in the hearts of the faithful for eternity."
Think you have what it takes to take the 'Oath of the legion' and become a true soldier of Rome? Service guarantees citizenship!
First off, thank you Benny and Ferox for the responses you gave. I'll admitt that I was expecting to be torn a new one.
Secondly, when you put it like that Ferox, I see why there is full looting and how it will help the game in general. And I know RV is a huge jump compared to the PvP fights I've experienced in WoW, but that was one of the things that first caught my attention. The PvP battles I had fought always left me wanting something more. I fully expect to be beaten in every way, shape, and form when the RV first comes out, but RV doesn't require a monthly subscription so I will be able to tough it out longer than I would be willing to with a regular subscription game.
And I may just take you up on that invitation when RV goes live.
Looting is what will make this game really good, iv played UO for about 5 years straight until they messed it up with a bunch of stupid stuff like no looting and large "safe" zones. If you have never tried a game like this you will most likly fall in love with it.
My pleasure, I have to say this has become a really interesting thread and thanks Ferox for explaining in detail the advantages of the PvP system for RV, again I'd never really looked at it like that before and it makes total sense now - thank you
The problem with full looting is that it severly limits the amount of pvp you can do.
Say you save up for 3 or 4 suits of armor and weapons. Then you go do some pvp. after a half hour or so youve died 4 times
Now you are out of armor and weapons. Now you cant do any pvp the rest of the night. You have to farm cash to get more money for armor and weapons.
So if you you want to spend 95% of the time crafting to get money , and only 5% of the time doing PVP, then this game is for you
If you like to PVP a lot, then the game isn't for you.
Shadowbane had the same problem. You couldnt loot peoples armor or weapons, but if you died, your weapons and armor were damaged. And they cost a lot of money to reapair. People got mad because they had to spend most of there time farming cash, to pay for repairs. And could only spend a small amount of time doing PVP. So they made the cost of repairs very cheap. And that made people happy, because now they could PVP most of the time.
Originally posted by ghoul31 The problem with full looting is that it severly limits the amount of pvp you can do. Say you save up for 3 or 4 suits of armor and weapons. Then you go do some pvp. after a half hour or so youve died 4 times Now you are out of armor and weapons. Now you cant do any pvp the rest of the night. You have to farm cash to get more money for armor and weapons. So if you you want to spend 95% of the time crafting to get money , and only 5% of the time doing PVP, then this game is for you If you like to PVP a lot, then the game isn't for you. Shadowbane had the same problem. You couldnt loot peoples armor or weapons, but if you died, your weapons and armor were damaged. And they cost a lot of money to reapair. People got mad because they had to spend most of there time farming cash, to pay for repairs. And could only spend a small amount of time doing PVP. So they made the cost of repairs very cheap. And that made people happy, because now they could PVP most of the time.
You are right it does limit you in pvp. You have something to lose so you might actually think before you go randomly attack someone. You won't just come right back and the winner of battles won't be whichever side gets bored of fighting first like in some games. It will actually add a meaning to pvp rather than just killing for fun. It will help to cut down on zergs too. It will make the pvp meaningful. People will fight a little more like they would in RL because losing actually means something. That means winning will be all the more rewarding. Ghoul it seems you are just a troll anyway.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Reasons like this are why I am nervous about playing RV, but then again being nervous is a form of excitement. But how many times would I have been able to take someone else down during my PvP session? Even without being an extremely skilled fighter in the game, I'm sure a friend, guild mate, or myself would have been able to take someone down along the way. Without levels in the game it will be possible for my buddy or me to get a lucky shot in and down our opponent. No more being that lvl 45 mage in WoW getting jumped by a level 60 rogue and watching him dance over my corpse like it was a great accomplishment.
Now that I think of it, perhaps the full-looting will discourage the "suicide run" that I had become accustom to in big battles. It wasn't uncommon at all to see a warrior in WoW charge into the main line of the opposing faction to draw attention for the casters to sneak in and go into a nuking frenzy. After all, what was the penalty if he dropped, a little ghost run back to his corpse but all the equipment still there?
Even if the scenario remains as you put it ghoul, it seems the easiest way to remedy it would be to join a legion or warband. The reserves of a successful guild will be able to put cloth on my chest, steel in my hand, and a legionare/warrior or two at my back. Of course, I'll have to earn my keep too. Can't imagine being part of a guild for long if all you did was come begging for equipment.
But in the end it will all come down to how the individual players feels after trying it out.
Maybe I don't understand the issue here.....EVE Online has what amounts to full-looting (though lots of stuff just gets destroyed), and, for those in 0.0 space, full PvP at all times. And it survives just fine. If people want, they can stay in 0.5+ Empire space, where they can still get ganked, but the gankers will last about 30 seconds before getting blown away by security forces. This sounds just like RV....if you want to be safe, stay in the cities where the Praetorians can protect you. If you go out into the wilderness, anyone can attack you, so it is wise to know how to fight, know where to hide, and have a group of friends. And if you die, well, you lose your stuff, but you have more in storage. And if you run low, borrow some from guildmates.
I mean, unless I am crazy, it's not just been done in UO, but it is in EVE now and the game is growing in popularity. So full-looting obviously works, and can be balanced. I prefer it. I have never played EQ or WoW, nor do I want to, but I have heard that those games are just mind-numbing once the game content has been consumed. Any game without risks, dire risks in some areas, is pretty silly.
Man, I wish I could get in the Beta. I can't wait for RV to come out!
Very well put and thought out. I would like to offer you the fact that in games like UO and RV, everything can be made by the players. In this regard you are not putting the unbelievable amounts of time you might in a game like EQ to have to go camp for armor and fight monsters over and over. If you lose your stuff in RV it will not be that large of a blow, unless your walking around unarmed with no guards and carrying all kinds of expensive stuff or bags of money hehe. The only exception to that may be if your a roman general like myself and you have all sorts of decked out armor on, but it would have to be a pretty bad rout of my troops for me to die and get fully looted in battle. But remember EVERYTHING can be made by the players, so whatever you lose you can make youself or know a friend you can buy it from very cheeply. This is where it comes in what you said about playing something different, and smart. The fact that it IS dangerous to travel and you COULD lose your stuff will mean there will be more jobs available for the player. Merchants will need guards, and bandit players will try to take the stuff from them!
The economy actually NEEDS people to be fully looted. This is especially true for legions. Im looking at an exorbitant amount of money to train and equip 5000 players and npcs. I need to kill a lot of barbs and take their stuff to keep that going hehe. Barbs will have to raid a lot of roman settlements to keep their armies going to!
I am glad you wish to try some pvp(although rv is a HUGE jump from the pvp you know), my problem is that I hope that you do not wish to CHANGE the game becase of your concerns. I will be honest and tell you that when you play rv it may be a "culture shock" and you may get killed and be mad because of free pvp and full loot. It will be a "gank fest"(which is great... once you have tasted freedom that rv gives you will either be totally sold or run away), but if you TRUELY do want to try something with more depth (and yes free pvp and full loot add tons of depth in ways its hard to explain until you get into the game) then stick it out with a group of friends or join a legion, and You will be having fun in no time and see with open eyes how shallow and sheepish games like EQ and WOW really are. The 24th will be patroling the roads and fighting those who wish to cause trouble for the empire. Now think about it, wtf would my legon be doing when there arent any wars if there was NO free pvp and full loot? It adds depth to the game and gives people more to do !. The PLAYERS rule themselves, defend themselves, THAT is the way of freedom, the way things SHOULD be. Infact I personally extend and invitation to hang with me when you first get the game, until you get your berings straight and learn, because it WILL be a very different experience for you, and I would not want to lose a possible convert to the dark side(those dark carebears!)
Thanks for taking the time to explain this out. It makes alot more sense to me now, im sold.
Cant wait for it to be released.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
From what I understand the PvP will look more like Eve Online, where most staff is made by players and not grinded out of monsters. Full looting is a great idea. It gives the sence of victory and achievement when you defeat your opponent, and adds some risk element in defeat. I think it's giving a MMO more depth and prevents it from being an arcade slash-n-hack game like WoW for example where yoyr corpse just dissapeares and you're resurrected with all your staff.
I'm not sure if I will subscribe to RV, but full looting is definately a plus for this game.
Just for the record I played UO back during the days of full and open looting and I loved every second of it. The interesting thing is that I never killed or looted innocent players. I most always was the one being killed and looted and it made for a hell of an experience. My favorite thing was looting victims before the killer could and then returning the items to be the hero. I also enjoyed looting a potential killer and returning his stuff to make a new friend or ally out of someone who could be an enemy.
Someone mentioned that open-looting ruined the game because people would be too afraid to wear their uber-armor or take with them their uber-weapon. In truth it just causes you to be more careful and to use more strategy. If you are carrying something valuable to you stay off the main roads. Run if the odds are even or against you. In WoW I fought everyone and everything because what was the downside to dying besides travel time?
Games that allow players more freedom to be villians allow players more chances to be heroes.
In RV you actually control all the attacks and can manually dodge using your own mouse and keyboard skills. You click where you want to attack so it takes timing and actual skill. IT's not press button to auto attack and one with better game skills and equipment wins. It depends on actual Real life player skill. So if you can kill your opponent, it is your reward to loot them as you were playing against the player's rl skill, not ingame level, if you understand what I am saying.
Also as there is no level system, the uber noobs who try attacking someone could end up dead very easy by underestimating who they are fighting. Then they are sent to Elysium and spend lots of time trying to get back and then quit when they realize they don't have the advantage they do in every other mmorpg.
Also, don't forget this is a niche game. While most big developers target the vast majority of gamers, Roma Victor is a game that targets those people who are dissatisfied with most MMORPG's. I'm sure you all read posts about how So and so hates WoW or SWG or that type of game. Roma Victor will draw in those people who are dissatisfied and want something truly new.
Originally posted by Kanoth RV is going to be a game that appeals to the type of player many MMORPG Developers completely pass over. For that reason alone, there will be many people that dont like the concepts we have. That's their right as human beings. But trying to force your opinion on people as fact...well thats just poor.
Originally posted by Kanoth RV is going to be a game that appeals to the type of player many MMORPG Developers completely pass over. For that reason alone, there will be many people that dont like the concepts we have. That's their right as human beings. But trying to force your opinion on people as fact...well thats just poor.
Amen.
I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players. Thats fine. But there can't be more than 5,000 or so of you out there. I don't think you can keep a game going with such a small player base. But good luck
I think full looting is a great idea. I might be one of those people who will "gank". I think if this game has gankers it will help keep this game intresting like to have guards or to have guilds to provide patrol group along roads to help protect there people. "gankers" will give reasons for people to buy guards or for legions to set patrols along a road. This will give people something to worry and take risks like should I travel to this town who is in a real need for supplies(and will pay alot for it) but the road to get there are most of the time full of badits. Also don't think having armor or a better weapon make you stronger because armor is heavy and will make you slower while people who are almost naked will be way faster then someone with armor so if you like to be fast you should not wear armor at all(which i might do, I want to be a fast and quick warrior).
The difference is that you won't be a "ganker" - a term with quite a bad conotation in the MMORPG world. You will be a bandit, a thief, a mugger - what world would be complete without people like you? None, and especially not the RV world.
I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players. Thats fine. But there can't be more than 5,000 or so of you out there. I don't think you can keep a game going with such a small player base. But good luck
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The game is an historically authentic recreation of life in 180AD. Unfortunately life includes some challenges and dangers, and this is especially true of ancient life.
Full Looting will work out just fine. I think a lot of the mindset against it is from games with Uber kewl loot that takes forever to find. As I understand it, in Roma Victor one sword might be better than another, but not THAT much better. Most of the time if you don't carry a ton of cash, and just have basic equipment, people shouldn't have much of a reason to kill you OR loot you, and if they do, they still probably won't take everything you have cuz then they would have to haul all that back to civilization somewhere.
Can't you see the allure of setting out on a long road knowing there is some DANGER there? You have to plan your trip, bring some protection, stay alert, use your wits! These kinds of feelings will be THE GAME. It will not be about levels, and stats, and loot. That is what most cookie-cutter games are about. This is about something different.
You might even be able to play it up a bit. If bandits on the road are after your gold and you actually consent and hand over the coins, they might just let you go with your life. Of course you can always raise a party to go take them out, but even that provides some content, something to do. In fact it might even be fun to get robbed sometime if you take it in stride as an event in the game. What fun is reading a book where the good guys never have close calls, get caught for a while by the bad-guys or beat up a little. There is no conflict otherwise and it would be like most MMORPGs: Boring.
In the words of a famous gamer.............Just Play!
Originally posted by ghoul31 Full looting is bad for a game. You save for months to buy a nice item. Then 5 five minutes after you buy it, you are killed and lose it. People will just stop wearing nice items and just wear junk. This will totally ruin the part of the game where you save for items, or try to decide which items to put on your character. And even if your armor and weapons are junk, it will still cost money to replace. So say you die in a fight. Then you have to spend the rest of the night raising money for new armor and you won't be able to do any more fighting. I really don't see how a full loot system could work
I disagree with this, I'm playing EVE atm which has fairly close to a full loot system. When you die you get the base value of your ship from insurance but your mods are left for looting or destroyed. In PvE you can go back and pick up surviving mods yourself, in PvP they're lost. You can buy a basic loadout for an hours earnings or an uber loadout with the best of everything taking a few weeks to afford, everyone makes a balance between the two based on what they're prepared to risk and the increases survivability you get from good equipment.
I think full lootings good because it gives that extra importance to deciding what to use, without full looting you just get the best you can afford.
I've also played Eve and feel that it bar none has the best PvP system out there. I just can't get past the monotony of space, the lengthy travel times, and big battle zone crashes. However, I hope RV takes notes of what CCP has done with their project. In Eve, there is a safe zone where cannons blow you up for attacking others. There isn't as much risk there but there isn't near the rewards.
Outside of that is the full fledged pvp zone. Pirates (random pk types) are out there to senselessly kill, ransom, or take your goods. But most of the PvP revolves around alliance/corp wars. You go to an enemy's turf without backup and you can expect to be killed and consequently lose your ship and all the items attached to it. The enemy can only pickup so much of it but the concept of "full loot" still applies because the loser loses everything on their character.
So while full looting does a add a great deal to the game (points brought up earlier that I won't restate), it's important to ensure that there are penalties for murder and theft. In Eve's safe zones, violence isn't tolerated unless a war has been declared. In Eve's danger zones, politics and the bounty system limit random ganking to an amount that isn't quite aggravating but isn't always so peaceful either.
Originally posted by ghoul31 Originally posted by ahsudbury Originally posted by KanothRV is going to be a game that appeals to the type of player many MMORPG Developers completely pass over. For that reason alone, there will be many people that dont like the concepts we have. That's their right as human beings. But trying to force your opinion on people as fact...well thats just poor. Amen. I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players. Thats fine. But there can't be more than 5,000 or so of you out there. I don't think you can keep a game going with such a small player base. But good luck
Theres casual players who enjoy this kind of gameplay and hardcore players who don't.
A carebear is either casual or hardcore, theres alot of carebears (pve oriented players) that plays 20/7.
You are obviously a carebear who must enjoy playing singeplayer RPG's more than real MMORPG's based on your attitude.
"I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players."
Care to define that?
Heres a stupid comment regarding that, many people that got killed during the Roman era got their items stripped of them.
I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players. Thats fine. But there can't be more than 5,000 or so of you out there. I don't think you can keep a game going with such a small player base. But good luck
You have to remember that redbedlam is a small company (or whatever you call it) and would not require that much $$ just to run the game. I also disagree with you, I think that there are alot of people who are ready for a hard core game like this ( and if I read it correctly, you do not lose all your items if you die to an npc)
I have played Wow and I enjoyed it (no i am not a wow fanboy) , but the PvP is unrewarding. Even in PvP servers you can not take full loot. I just felt like I was not competing I think that PvP is useless if you do not have rewards for it (unless it is a really well done PvP like Guild Wars) but I still didnt have nearly as fun in that as I would in hard-core PvP games. I have played Rune Scape and the PvP in that is pretty hard core. HEck I remember always going around the Wild (pvp area that people seem to go in for no apparent reason) and almost having heart attacks after barely escaping, and whenever I died I would almost start crying (most people would quit if they lost as much as I often did and had to go back to almost scratch). But whenever I killed a guy and got all his crap, i felt so accomplished.
But in Rune Scape, you could not just kill anybody any time unless you were in the Wild, but I liked the idea of full looting or mostly full. (in RS if you atttack someone and die than you lose all your items but the defender keeps what the game thinks are his 3 or 4 most precious).
Ever since i quit Runescape (stupid Jagex screwd the game up and the graphics sucked anyways), I have been waiting for a game like this. As many have mentioned, RV will not feature uber weapons (Mystic mace of ultimate doom +1000 OWNED). I really enjoyed saving for big weapons in games (in runescape there were a F***in load of good weapons) but in a game where u lose everything when you die.........It may be best to not have uber weapons.
(soory for referring to RS so much, but i played it longer than any other MMO)
full looting is a good idea, makes it challenging and scary to engage in large battles. if you hate it so much why did you bother posting here? did you think your thread would change thier mind or ours? i think your generation arnt used to losing possessions like we were back in the days of UO. That was full of thiefs and murderers and killing them was very satisfying :-)
Ultima Online had a total loot system. And it was really a pain, but also a delicious source of adrenaline rushes. If you can't stand the dangers out of the city, you'd better stay away. And if you want to go anyway, dont go alone. Making friends is so much more necessary. I like the total loot system.
Comments
Hey Squadbox,
As I posted in another thread I think you got our man Ferox on a bad day, there has been a lot of trolling and I think a couple of you copped an unfair tongue lashing.
You make a really valid point about having carebear status thrust upon you with the MMO games that are on offer today and I hope RV will break that mould. I think RV combat and some of the nuances to avoid a gank fest will make this one of the best game playing experiences available. I've played a few MMO's but really I love FPS games & have been waiting for something to merge the 2 genres - that's when I found out about RV and from what I've read it's my dream come true. Furthermore I think RV does cater equally for the carebear and PvP'er - there is no reason you should have all your loot taken if you play the game to protect your assets, then I don't think you need suffer at all.
Anyways I really hope you stay with RV and get to experience a *real* MMO, as it should be.....
Benny...........................................
Very well put and thought out. I would like to offer you the fact that in games like UO and RV, everything can be made by the players. In this regard you are not putting the unbelievable amounts of time you might in a game like EQ to have to go camp for armor and fight monsters over and over. If you lose your stuff in RV it will not be that large of a blow, unless your walking around unarmed with no guards and carrying all kinds of expensive stuff or bags of money hehe.
The only exception to that may be if your a roman general like myself and you have all sorts of decked out armor on, but it would have to be a pretty bad rout of my troops for me to die and get fully looted in battle. But remember EVERYTHING can be made by the players, so whatever you lose you can make youself or know a friend you can buy it from very cheeply.
This is where it comes in what you said about playing something different, and smart. The fact that it IS dangerous to travel and you COULD lose your stuff will mean there will be more jobs available for the player. Merchants will need guards, and bandit players will try to take the stuff from them!
The economy actually NEEDS people to be fully looted. This is especially true for legions. Im looking at an exorbitant amount of money to train and equip 5000 players and npcs. I need to kill a lot of barbs and take their stuff to keep that going hehe. Barbs will have to raid a lot of roman settlements to keep their armies going to!
I am glad you wish to try some pvp(although rv is a HUGE jump from the pvp you know), my problem is that I hope that you do not wish to CHANGE the game becase of your concerns. I will be honest and tell you that when you play rv it may be a "culture shock" and you may get killed and be mad because of free pvp and full loot. It will be a "gank fest"(which is great... once you have tasted freedom that rv gives you will either be totally sold or run away), but if you TRUELY do want to try something with more depth (and yes free pvp and full loot add tons of depth in ways its hard to explain until you get into the game) then stick it out with a group of friends or join a legion, and You will be having fun in no time and see with open eyes how shallow and sheepish games like EQ and WOW really are.
The 24th will be patroling the roads and fighting those who wish to cause trouble for the empire. Now think about it, wtf would my legon be doing when there arent any wars if there was NO free pvp and full loot? It adds depth to the game and gives people more to do !. The PLAYERS rule themselves, defend themselves, THAT is the way of freedom, the way things SHOULD be.
Infact I personally extend and invitation to hang with me when you first get the game, until you get your berings straight and learn, because it WILL be a very different experience for you, and I would not want to lose a possible convert to the dark side(those dark carebears!)
_____________________________________________
"Old UO is now but a dream that will live in the hearts of the faithful for eternity."
Think you have what it takes to take the 'Oath of the legion' and become a true soldier of Rome?
Service guarantees citizenship!
First off, thank you Benny and Ferox for the responses you gave. I'll admitt that I was expecting to be torn a new one.
Secondly, when you put it like that Ferox, I see why there is full looting and how it will help the game in general. And I know RV is a huge jump compared to the PvP fights I've experienced in WoW, but that was one of the things that first caught my attention. The PvP battles I had fought always left me wanting something more. I fully expect to be beaten in every way, shape, and form when the RV first comes out, but RV doesn't require a monthly subscription so I will be able to tough it out longer than I would be willing to with a regular subscription game.
And I may just take you up on that invitation when RV goes live.
Looting is what will make this game really good, iv played UO for about 5 years straight until they messed it up with a bunch of stupid stuff like no looting and large "safe" zones. If you have never tried a game like this you will most likly fall in love with it.
My pleasure, I have to say this has become a really interesting thread and thanks Ferox for explaining in detail the advantages of the PvP system for RV, again I'd never really looked at it like that before and it makes total sense now - thank you
Benny......................................
The problem with full looting is that it severly limits the amount of pvp you can do.
Say you save up for 3 or 4 suits of armor and weapons. Then you go do some pvp. after a half hour or so youve died 4 times
Now you are out of armor and weapons. Now you cant do any pvp the rest of the night. You have to farm cash to get more money for armor and weapons.
So if you you want to spend 95% of the time crafting to get money , and only 5% of the time doing PVP, then this game is for you
If you like to PVP a lot, then the game isn't for you.
Shadowbane had the same problem. You couldnt loot peoples armor or weapons, but if you died, your weapons and armor were damaged. And they cost a lot of money to reapair. People got mad because they had to spend most of there time farming cash, to pay for repairs. And could only spend a small amount of time doing PVP. So they made the cost of repairs very cheap. And that made people happy, because now they could PVP most of the time.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Reasons like this are why I am nervous about playing RV, but then again being nervous is a form of excitement. But how many times would I have been able to take someone else down during my PvP session? Even without being an extremely skilled fighter in the game, I'm sure a friend, guild mate, or myself would have been able to take someone down along the way. Without levels in the game it will be possible for my buddy or me to get a lucky shot in and down our opponent. No more being that lvl 45 mage in WoW getting jumped by a level 60 rogue and watching him dance over my corpse like it was a great accomplishment.
Now that I think of it, perhaps the full-looting will discourage the "suicide run" that I had become accustom to in big battles. It wasn't uncommon at all to see a warrior in WoW charge into the main line of the opposing faction to draw attention for the casters to sneak in and go into a nuking frenzy. After all, what was the penalty if he dropped, a little ghost run back to his corpse but all the equipment still there?
Even if the scenario remains as you put it ghoul, it seems the easiest way to remedy it would be to join a legion or warband. The reserves of a successful guild will be able to put cloth on my chest, steel in my hand, and a legionare/warrior or two at my back. Of course, I'll have to earn my keep too. Can't imagine being part of a guild for long if all you did was come begging for equipment.
But in the end it will all come down to how the individual players feels after trying it out.
Maybe I don't understand the issue here.....EVE Online has what amounts to full-looting (though lots of stuff just gets destroyed), and, for those in 0.0 space, full PvP at all times. And it survives just fine. If people want, they can stay in 0.5+ Empire space, where they can still get ganked, but the gankers will last about 30 seconds before getting blown away by security forces. This sounds just like RV....if you want to be safe, stay in the cities where the Praetorians can protect you. If you go out into the wilderness, anyone can attack you, so it is wise to know how to fight, know where to hide, and have a group of friends. And if you die, well, you lose your stuff, but you have more in storage. And if you run low, borrow some from guildmates.
I mean, unless I am crazy, it's not just been done in UO, but it is in EVE now and the game is growing in popularity. So full-looting obviously works, and can be balanced. I prefer it. I have never played EQ or WoW, nor do I want to, but I have heard that those games are just mind-numbing once the game content has been consumed. Any game without risks, dire risks in some areas, is pretty silly.
Man, I wish I could get in the Beta. I can't wait for RV to come out!
Thanks for taking the time to explain this out. It makes alot more sense to me now, im sold.
Cant wait for it to be released.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
From what I understand the PvP will look more like Eve Online, where most staff is made by players and not grinded out of monsters. Full looting is a great idea. It gives the sence of victory and achievement when you defeat your opponent, and adds some risk element in defeat. I think it's giving a MMO more depth and prevents it from being an arcade slash-n-hack game like WoW for example where yoyr corpse just dissapeares and you're resurrected with all your staff.
I'm not sure if I will subscribe to RV, but full looting is definately a plus for this game.
Just for the record I played UO back during the days of full and open looting and I loved every second of it. The interesting thing is that I never killed or looted innocent players. I most always was the one being killed and looted and it made for a hell of an experience. My favorite thing was looting victims before the killer could and then returning the items to be the hero. I also enjoyed looting a potential killer and returning his stuff to make a new friend or ally out of someone who could be an enemy.
Someone mentioned that open-looting ruined the game because people would be too afraid to wear their uber-armor or take with them their uber-weapon. In truth it just causes you to be more careful and to use more strategy. If you are carrying something valuable to you stay off the main roads. Run if the odds are even or against you. In WoW I fought everyone and everything because what was the downside to dying besides travel time?
Games that allow players more freedom to be villians allow players more chances to be heroes.
In RV you actually control all the attacks and can manually dodge using your own mouse and keyboard skills. You click where you want to attack so it takes timing and actual skill. IT's not press button to auto attack and one with better game skills and equipment wins. It depends on actual Real life player skill. So if you can kill your opponent, it is your reward to loot them as you were playing against the player's rl skill, not ingame level, if you understand what I am saying.
Also as there is no level system, the uber noobs who try attacking someone could end up dead very easy by underestimating who they are fighting. Then they are sent to Elysium and spend lots of time trying to get back and then quit when they realize they don't have the advantage they do in every other mmorpg.
Also, don't forget this is a niche game. While most big developers target the vast majority of gamers, Roma Victor is a game that targets those people who are dissatisfied with most MMORPG's. I'm sure you all read posts about how So and so hates WoW or SWG or that type of game. Roma Victor will draw in those people who are dissatisfied and want something truly new.
I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players. Thats fine. But there can't be more than 5,000 or so of you out there. I don't think you can keep a game going with such a small player base. But good luck
I think full looting is a great idea. I might be one of those people who will "gank". I think if this game has gankers it will help keep this game intresting like to have guards or to have guilds to provide patrol group along roads to help protect there people. "gankers" will give reasons for people to buy guards or for legions to set patrols along a road. This will give people something to worry and take risks like should I travel to this town who is in a real need for supplies(and will pay alot for it) but the road to get there are most of the time full of badits. Also don't think having armor or a better weapon make you stronger because armor is heavy and will make you slower while people who are almost naked will be way faster then someone with armor so if you like to be fast you should not wear armor at all(which i might do, I want to be a fast and quick warrior).
The difference is that you won't be a "ganker" - a term with quite a bad conotation in the MMORPG world. You will be a bandit, a thief, a mugger - what world would be complete without people like you? None, and especially not the RV world.
- Starcius
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The game is an historically authentic recreation of life in 180AD. Unfortunately life includes some challenges and dangers, and this is especially true of ancient life.
"Rome wasn't coded in a day"
- Kanoth
Full Looting will work out just fine. I think a lot of the mindset against it is from games with Uber kewl loot that takes forever to find. As I understand it, in Roma Victor one sword might be better than another, but not THAT much better. Most of the time if you don't carry a ton of cash, and just have basic equipment, people shouldn't have much of a reason to kill you OR loot you, and if they do, they still probably won't take everything you have cuz then they would have to haul all that back to civilization somewhere.
Can't you see the allure of setting out on a long road knowing there is some DANGER there? You have to plan your trip, bring some protection, stay alert, use your wits! These kinds of feelings will be THE GAME. It will not be about levels, and stats, and loot. That is what most cookie-cutter games are about. This is about something different.
You might even be able to play it up a bit. If bandits on the road are after your gold and you actually consent and hand over the coins, they might just let you go with your life. Of course you can always raise a party to go take them out, but even that provides some content, something to do. In fact it might even be fun to get robbed sometime if you take it in stride as an event in the game. What fun is reading a book where the good guys never have close calls, get caught for a while by the bad-guys or beat up a little. There is no conflict otherwise and it would be like most MMORPGs: Boring.
In the words of a famous gamer.............Just Play!
IronOre - Forging the Future
I disagree with this, I'm playing EVE atm which has fairly close to a full loot system. When you die you get the base value of your ship from insurance but your mods are left for looting or destroyed. In PvE you can go back and pick up surviving mods yourself, in PvP they're lost. You can buy a basic loadout for an hours earnings or an uber loadout with the best of everything taking a few weeks to afford, everyone makes a balance between the two based on what they're prepared to risk and the increases survivability you get from good equipment.
I think full lootings good because it gives that extra importance to deciding what to use, without full looting you just get the best you can afford.
I've also played Eve and feel that it bar none has the best PvP system out there. I just can't get past the monotony of space, the lengthy travel times, and big battle zone crashes. However, I hope RV takes notes of what CCP has done with their project. In Eve, there is a safe zone where cannons blow you up for attacking others. There isn't as much risk there but there isn't near the rewards.
Outside of that is the full fledged pvp zone. Pirates (random pk types) are out there to senselessly kill, ransom, or take your goods. But most of the PvP revolves around alliance/corp wars. You go to an enemy's turf without backup and you can expect to be killed and consequently lose your ship and all the items attached to it. The enemy can only pickup so much of it but the concept of "full loot" still applies because the loser loses everything on their character.
So while full looting does a add a great deal to the game (points brought up earlier that I won't restate), it's important to ensure that there are penalties for murder and theft. In Eve's safe zones, violence isn't tolerated unless a war has been declared. In Eve's danger zones, politics and the bounty system limit random ganking to an amount that isn't quite aggravating but isn't always so peaceful either.
Theres casual players who enjoy this kind of gameplay and hardcore players who don't.
A carebear is either casual or hardcore, theres alot of carebears (pve oriented players) that plays 20/7.
You are obviously a carebear who must enjoy playing singeplayer RPG's more than real MMORPG's based on your attitude.
"I thought this game for for people who like Roman history. But apparently it isnt. Its only for super hard core players."
Care to define that?
Heres a stupid comment regarding that, many people that got killed during the Roman era got their items stripped of them.
A stupid statement gets a stupid comment.
I CREATED MYSELF!
"<Claus|Dev> i r pk"
SW:TOR|War40K:DMO|GW2
[quote]Originally posted by Kanoth
[b]
Originally posted by ghoul31
You have to remember that redbedlam is a small company (or whatever you call it) and would not require that much $$ just to run the game. I also disagree with you, I think that there are alot of people who are ready for a hard core game like this ( and if I read it correctly, you do not lose all your items if you die to an npc)
I have played Wow and I enjoyed it (no i am not a wow fanboy) , but the PvP is unrewarding. Even in PvP servers you can not take full loot. I just felt like I was not competing
I think that PvP is useless if you do not have rewards for it (unless it is a really well done PvP like Guild Wars) but I still didnt have nearly as fun in that as I would in hard-core PvP games. I have played Rune Scape and the PvP in that is pretty hard core. HEck I remember always going around the Wild (pvp area that people seem to go in for no apparent reason) and almost having heart attacks after barely escaping, and whenever I died I would almost start crying (most people would quit if they lost as much as I often did and had to go back to almost scratch). But whenever I killed a guy and got all his crap, i felt so accomplished.
But in Rune Scape, you could not just kill anybody any time unless you were in the Wild, but I liked the idea of full looting or mostly full. (in RS if you atttack someone and die than you lose all your items but the defender keeps what the game thinks are his 3 or 4 most precious).
Ever since i quit Runescape (stupid Jagex screwd the game up and the graphics sucked anyways), I have been waiting for a game like this. As many have mentioned, RV will not feature uber weapons (Mystic mace of ultimate doom +1000 OWNED). I really enjoyed saving for big weapons in games (in runescape there were a F***in load of good weapons) but in a game where u lose everything when you die.........It may be best to not have uber weapons.
(soory for referring to RS so much, but i played it longer than any other MMO)
full looting is a good idea, makes it challenging and scary to engage in large battles. if you hate it so much why did you bother posting here? did you think your thread would change thier mind or ours? i think your generation arnt used to losing possessions like we were back in the days of UO. That was full of thiefs and murderers and killing them was very satisfying :-)