Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Why the current state of MMORPGs is so dismal.
magicalsteve
Member Posts: 116
*Disclaimer: I've tried to be concise and to the point, however it's a little lengthy. Sorry. 
*
<rant>
Blizzard has recently made an enormous profit by throwing every shameful MMORPG cliche into a box, polishing it up, and slapping on a popular theme.
Millions of unfortunate souls have bought the game and entered a world in which not only does everybody look the same, but they also do the same things in the same order.
Infact, the only part of World of Warcraft that does not resemble that scene from Star Wars, in which a clone army is being mass produced in a huge factory, is the somewhat entertaining PvP.
Unfortunately, that reward does not justify the agonisingly obselete ride along the WoW conveyor belt.
I find myself asking how this game could draw such numbers, and whether or not I should simply give up on MMORPG's. Luckily, I found the answer.
WoW's subscribers are made up of three different genres:
1. The MMOG newbie
Attracted by the Warcraft brand name, these poor kids are sucked into the world of MMORPGs. The initial excitement of discovering this wonderful concept is so powerful that they do not notice that they have abandoned the elements that usually make games fun: fast paced action, twitch gaming, strategic thinking, immersive storylines, etc. Who cares? They're hooked.
2. The typical MMORPGer
These guys enjoy their MMORPGs, they started off with EQ, UO and AC, and they're just used to the MMOG elements you see in every game. They play WoW because it executes those elements with the greatest finesse.
3. The reluctant MMORPGer
This group may have started to see the light, but hey, there's nothing else to play. They're waiting for DF and DnL.
Basically, my conclusion is thus:
Blizzard can get away with WoW because MMORPG's are still a new concept. Right now you just need to get those elements that make a game addictive, and you'll have subscribers.
The genre is still a baby, and therefore all of the original MMOGs that are worth playing (WWIIonline, EVE, Roma Victor, SB) are underfunded niche products. (For the record I will state that the aforementioned "niche games" are doing extraordinarly well, and remain competitive products)
I am hoping that once everybody has realised that:
a) collecting apples for NPCs isn't engaging gameplay. (Infact I could write a page up on the joke that known as "questing" in MMORPG's)
or b) your new set of armor isn't that special, seeing as every other person at your level/class is wearing it
or c) killing that other player didn't really gain anything
or d) 'levelling up' is a mindless and addictive task that only serves to keep you occupied whilst your credit card is being billed each month.
Then perhaps we shall see the MMORPG genre evolve.
</rant>
Now I don't expect many replies, I just want people to be READING stuff like this.
However, if you do wish to reply, please don't flame me for ragging on WoW and various gamer stereotypes. I realise that I was exaggerating and generalising.
I'm off to sleep now, Gnite.
Comments
I agree with the general premise, I give it a 7/10, but there are a couple problems with your rant.
As a category 3 type, I am not waiting for DF or DnL, I am waiting for Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Roma Victor has not been released yet, so it is an untruth to state as fact that it is doing extraordinarily well and remaining competitive.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
K real quick i have never played WOW, why because it looked like the rest of the mmo's ive played. And i believe i've tried all of the top rated mmo's on this site, plus some of the korean mmo's and some of the beta's and low rated ones. The thing about them all was the all played the same and had the same concept. You kill to level and leveling is the whole reason for playing. So when i saw wow i was like umm....no. I am currently stuck on EVE though and though it is kinda boring, its different its not a stupid i need 22,000,000 xp till my upteenth next level kinda game. People may hate the fact that you have to wait on real time to gain levels and advance but in reality thats how the game stays interesting and competitive. You wont have some mmo addict start the game and two weeks laters calling people that have played for 3 years noobs because he has the best ship and blowing everyone up. And then going onto forums saying how the game sucks because theres no end game.
But ill see how i stick this game out until i turn back into a category 3 and look for the next best mmo out there or i get my xbox 360
.
Hmm well I had quit WoW around May. Ever since I played guild wars and various other games. Alongside that I beta tested MANY many titles.
In all honesty, there hasn't been a title out thats really intrigued me. City of Villians was pretty fun initially, but after playing for a while I kinda hated the repetitiveness of the instances and constantly going around doing the same things.
The fact is the gameplay MMORPGs today offer is quite old and dull. The market is in dire need of innovation. WoW has just simply defined what an MMORPG should be like. Most games that came out between around May till now havent been innovative at all. Infact none have even come close to surpassing WoW.
I havent played any kind of MMOG for the past 2 months and probably wont till something genuine comes out.
The only game I know I will play no matter what is AOC. But thats a long time off.
I'm looking forward to DDO and perhaps a few more titles (Pirates of the Burning Sea, Spellborn, Tabula Rasa (long time away))=
DnL I'm gonna watch and wait to see how it goes. I dont really like the look of the game, but gameplay is quite important to me. So when I get my chance to give it try I'll make my decision. Roma Victor isnt appealing to me.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
You call that competitive? I call it just plain being lazy. Eve-Online is a game that you can advance in without playing. Maybe we shouldn't call it a game. Boredom Simulator sounds more appropiate.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
you didn't answer the question ' why the current state of mmorpgs is so dismal'
And yeah WoW is essentially a "dumbed down mmorpg for the masses" incorporating its own gameplay.
Basically its a game just bringing more people into the mmorpg era with quite a solid game, to mmorpg new players it is quite an experience. To more experienced mmorpgers such as myself its not so impressive, but still I'm glad they made it, perhaps would have preferred a warcraft 4 but as I said WoW is bringing more people into the mmorpg genre, which can only be good for the industry. What we need now is a game to add something new and revolutionary to the genre. Like typical games, one game comes along and completely changes everything and every game in that genre after it.
This new innovation in MMORPGs that everyone is waiting for, this new concept that will change the industry, this wonderful idea that will bring us all back to playing.....what will it be?
Has blizzard made an enormous profit? The game cost $100 million to make. It seems to me that they need to pull the game off for another 2 years before you can call it enormous. I would say in the first year their goal was to pay for the cost of manufacturing, distributing and supporting the game. They were indeed successful with that but if you tally up the numbers they didnt turn a huge profit. If they survive this next year with DnL and Vanguard coming out (the big guns) then they'll make a huge profit. WoW has a limited lifespan. It's not a game designed to last 7 years such as EQ or UO. It's a successful game and not a bad one at that but dont go thinking Blizzard is rich like Bill Gates.
Now onto the topic. "Why the current state of MMORPG's is so dismal."
The answer to that is technological limitations. We all know what we want. The developers of games know as well because they are gamers too. We want a totally immerisive environment with a game system that rewards skill but allows the little guys and girlfriends to keep up and have fun. We want 1000's of people to play with and we expect 0 lag and brilliant graphics. The list goes on..
This is all well and good and in 20-30 years we'll have it. The problem is technology. In order to make the next step technology needs to improve. DnL and EVE are struggling with that very issue today. Lag in EVE is ruining the game and DnL is trying to figure out how its going to support itself with 15k users instead of its goal of 100k users. Designing a game for 100k users and getting only 15k on means serious financial problems for the designers.
Don't you think if Brad McQuaid could sit down and program the ultimate MMORPG and have it run smoothly and flawlessly he would do it? Brad is like the ultimate gamer nerd. Nobody wants to play that game more than him. Nobody wants to make that game more than him. Vanguard is the next step in what technology will allow him to do. Sure he needs to embrace some pvp aspects but hey even carebear games can be fun.
When you add up everything that we want out of a game and then you tally up the ability of current hardware you come up short.
Now dont get me wrong i'm not saying this is the ONLY reason why we have crappy games. We have crappy games because people want to make the most money for the least effort. The reason we dont have our uber game yet though is because of technology.
Games cant evolve as fast as our expectations.
Make a difference!
Nah seriously though, the multiplayer persistant market is growing. It may not necessarily be in the mmorpg area. But if I was to speculate in the mmorpg area it could be a walk away from the conventional level based mechanisms. Yes you could say this has already been done but its not been advanced on yet.
.../sigh
Why is WoW SUCH a convinient scape goat for anyone that claims MMORPG's are in such a "dismal" state. Yes it's a popular game, yes it has huge numbers and no it may not be the game for you, but what right does that give you to not just attack the game (which is perfectly fine) but attack the people that choose to play it ?
Here's a clue. Blizzard can get away with WoW because WoW is a good game ! Is it the MMO that will change the way we all look and play MMO's ? Absolutely not but that can not take away from the fact that they have put together a solid peice of software that many many people enjoy and NO... not all those people fall into YOUR "WoW's subscribers are made up of three different genres:" idea.
Note on your rant, which I guess was supposed to be about the mmo industry but apparently is all about WoW.
<note>
OPEN YOUR FREAKING EYES !!!
</note>
Listen I'm not flamming but to say that the MMO genre is not evolving is insane, when you open your eyes you'll see that our little genre that almost no one knew about 10 years ago has a huge array of titles to choose from and more comming all the time. Look at whats comming, look at Age of Conan, Auto Assault, Dark and Light, Chronicles of Spellborn, The Chronicles, STO, LoTR Online... My god what more do you need to know to prove that not only are we playing one of the best genre's out there but it's getting better all the time ?
Important Information regarding Posting and You
95% or better of the MMOG games today seem to be following very boring stereotypes. Hack and Slash; over abundance of the fantasy genre with little else to choose from; level grinds, and um... "quest" as they are called, I call this element fetch...WOOF WOOF! Another pet peeve of mine is the lack of an involving story lines, and NPC's that have the most pointless dialogue that I feel like I have wasted my time to even read because it effects nothing.
I may be in the minority but I love it when a game comes up with a new concept to shake things up. Even if it turns out to be a total failure I'm willing to throw my dollars at it just to see something exciting happening with this genre because it drives me crazy to see such potential for this genre that is not being tapped because the producers for these games are too scared to take risks. What they don't realize is as in everything else, games, music, etc. those who have taken risks are also the ones who have made the games that became huge on a massive scale. When you read the history of most great games that set the trend for games to come it was always considered by those funding the project to be a bad idea that the designer had to fight to make. That's what happened with the Sims from what I've read and obviously that game didn't do too shabby. Things don't happen to improve games because people are too timid of change and experimentation no matter how bad they want things new and exciting.
I am looking forward to Seed. I don't expect it to be a huge hit and I do worry with no combat at all and what looks like a limited and somewhat bleak and repetitive environment it might not be as fun as it could be but I applaud it tremendously for being courageous enough to try to directly answer the problems with the "same ol thing" in this genre.
There's little change in MMOS because the masses don't want change. As soon as a success formula is hit upon (anything - not just games) 50 companies come out with products imitating it. They'll slap a different colored shiny label on it, but it's still the same thing. And the masses will run and buy them up because they know they liked product A, so the new and shiny product B should appeal to them as well.
Innovation doesn't come often, that's why everyone stands up and takes notice when it does come around.
I'd like to see more interaction with the world in MMORPGs. Mines that run out, animals that disapear, forests that are chopped down and don't regrow, and quests that get completed so my alt doesn't run the exact same errands.
I completely agree. But dont think I am wow fanboi. I played WOW for two months before realising how dull and pointless it is. Still I hate to admit but wow is the cream of todays mmorpgs. Which draws only one conclusion - The market is in dire need of innovation.
What it will be I will not discuss here but it is safe to say that old mmorpg formula is just not cutting it anymore ( at least not for me )
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Thanks for the replies, here's some clarification:
Jorev: I understand completely that not every 'reluctant MMOGer' is waiting for DF and DnL, and that RV cannot be evaluated as it is still unreleased. That was just my admitted generalizations, and briefness. Thanks for pointing out those discrepancies, however.
Copeland: In regards to technical limitations, once again I completely agree that the nature of MMOG's will always mean they are a few steps behind single player games. This is most certain in the areas of twitch gaming and graphics etc. However, you'll notice that the "a,b,c,d" examples, being the MMOG cliches I find most disappointing, have been avoided by previous games in the past:
Face of Mankind has avoided A, Anarchy Online avoided B, Shadowbane avoided C, and WWIIonline avoided D.
Technology is preventing the perfect MMOG from being made, however I don't think that it is halting innovation at all.
Oh and yes, maybe WoW has not made enormous profits, but it has over a million subscibers. Do I really have to call up the Blizzard accountants? Sorry mate.
Ok, now for the person who has completey missed the plot: Shae...
Why did I use WoW as an example as to why the current state of MMORPG's is so poor? To answer this, I'm going to quote Magicalsteve, from a recent post he made:
"Blizzard has recently made an enormous profit by throwing every shameful MMORPG cliche into a box, polishing it up, and slapping on a popular theme."
Yes I was ragging on WoW. It needs to be done. It is a good game, but for the wrong reasons. Also, I was not flaming the people who play the game at all. I understand why they play it, I even played it myself. I have FRIENDS who play it.
At the end of my post, I specifically asked for this type of reply to be ommitted: I know that I was being harsh, and I was exaggerating, and generalising, I used all of these tools to focus on the topic at hand. Please do the same.
Sorry if you took offence to my original post, please read it again, especially the disclaimers at the beginning and end, and try not to look at it as an attack on people who play WoW.
If I've made some more mistakes, post away! I'll try to clear everything up.
Perhaps it is more the current offerings and the genra is not for some at this point>
If you got to end game in the lists of before perhaps the nothing new under the sun isn't enough for those players? If that is the case , then they will find great fault with all the new and up comings.
Frankly i am tickled that wow made it so big. They showed a big company what tried and true and works well, can make a difference.
If so many folks are not happy with the current crop, and sees nada in the upcomings, it is ok to take a long break from genra' maybe singal player games would be best for those folks for now?
Check back in 3 or 4 years see if anything is new or different there just may be something else by that time.....
If the current state of MMORPGs is really that dismal, why does it garner so much profit for the companies who make them?
Unfortunately there are going to be a continuous supply of #1's, because kids are always being born and growing up.
Im a tad more pessimistic in my outlooks due to this simple statistical fact.
*sigh*
Warcraft has looked carefull about all the GOOD things about other MMORPG's and put these all together with a Warcraft Theme, what is so bad about this? the result is a game that over 5 million people enjoy playing everyday. you think all of them will pay monthly fee's for months just because its Blizzard and Warcraft? I don't think so. because their having fun. i have played WoW over a year and am still enjoying it. Warcraft is made for the casual gamer. if you are a hardcore player, then look for another game.
I have to agree with the general sentiment of the original post. Since SWG went into the crapper a few weeks ago, I have tried out 3 other MMO's and found them all to be cooki cutter copies of each other and boring as watching paint dry. Im very discouraged at the moment, although I am holding out hope for some of the new ones coming out in 2006: Roma-Victor ; Dark and Light ; Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Hopefully, the industry wont die in mediocrity before it ever really gets off the ground.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
So what is this magical mmo element that everyone is waiting on? There are 26 released game forums on this site. What is missing from these games?
Pretty soon a new wave of releases will come where people play the trial or play for a month and decide the game sucks. After that we will have another stale period where people will make posts about how stale the market is. There will never be a perfect mmo. There is always going to be something about the game you dont like. Even my favorite mmos have their problems.
There is no best MMORPG, only favorites.
How can 5 million people be wrong? Or do you think you know what's best for everyone?
CRPGs were originally puzzle/strategy games. In an MMO environment it's impossible to have puzzles because the players will just tell eachother how to solve the puzzles. Unless you figure out a way to generate random logic problems or numeric crossword puzzles, but those aren't for everyone. The strategy element has been almost completely ignored in MMORPGs. What we currently have is a kind of "gladiator meets Gran Turismo" sort of thing with little or no player input during combat. You could still have some very deep strategy with the semi-turn based combat of most MMORPGs, but it would resemble Magic: The Gathering or Mage Knight with each player acting as one unit. Of course that wouldn't work either since there seems to be a large number of players that want to solo to the level cap so they go ahead and grief lowbies already.
What we want is twitch combat and that's a tall order for an MMO. Shooters don't eat alot of bandwidth since you only have a handful of states to pass between players. A fantasy MMO however, could have thousands of states to pass along. Notice that there aren't alot of online fighting games. The few online fighting games that there are, only involve 2 to 4 players with only two players fighting at any given time. When someone makes an 8 player online version of Powerstone, you'll know we're on the way to achieving a twitch MMO.
BTW, I noticed that all your "good" examples were PvP intensive MMOs. Hate to break this to you, but most of these games are co-op and co-op multiplay has been around just as long as PvP. Contra, Gauntlet, Smash TV, Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell, the list goes on and on. PvP is nice, but the pull of these games is the social aspect. FFA PVP is inherently antisocial. given, FFA PvP has it's place. But that place is Counter-Strike and Age of Empires 3.
You are definitely right, there will never be a perfect MMO. There will always be problems, but im not one to bitch about the MMO that im playing. I played SWG for two years and didnt start bitching until the CU and then went into overdrive with the NGE. LOL.
I think part of the problem is that yes, there are 26 MMO's on this site but there is really little difference between most of them. In my own little humble opinion, SWG was revolotionary in that it was a different style and feel. While that obviously was not what enough people were looking for, it is what I liked and would like to find again. For me, its all about immersion.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
So.. let me sum up what you say, word for word. Just so you know next time:
WoW is for noobs
I do not like WoW
Hence, MMOs suck
Please... next time have a point
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I didn't think the OP's point was that simple.
I thought he was fearful of MMOG's being dummied down and too much alike based on WoW's success. There is definitely a lack of quality and innovative MMOG's out there atm.
WoW is certainly a good game for casuals and newbies, but it is too easy overall and lacks any challenge for veterans. I give WoW credit for improving some existing concepts like quests and creating a lot of detail overall, but they failed with PvP and crafting.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh