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player cities
Sulda
Member Posts: 24
As a former SWG fan, I loved the fact that the bases were able to be destroyed. They gave a faction its higher functionality and was also a symbol of achievement and monetary stature.
I have always thought that in a game you should be able to destroy buildings and such and SWG provided a great way to take out the bases. You had to have an established and skilled team to accomplish it, and usually required some form of organized military assault/defense to pull it off.
The problem with an online game is that it still goes on, even if you are not online. You have no way to defend your stuff if you're not there. The SWG idea of making bases vulnerable at only certain times was a great idea and really encouraged team support and cooperation.
If we were to have a game in which large items must be stored in a building or warehouse, and transported via caravans, how do you go about establishing the ability to punish your enemies resources and infrastructure without completely mimicing SWG? Should entire towns have "vuln times". Should NPC cities never be vuln and be safe zones, yet all player cities always be vuln to attack? What do you guys/gals think?
Comments
I think that SWG is a good base to build on. I just need a few drinks to be able to read these forums any more hehe
But, seriously, that could provide structure to build upon.
One thing about Player Cities is that I think it should be restrictied. Now I know, people are going to say "thats no fun," but hear me out. Civilization is all but destroyed. Having a construction crew come in and set up a building that can survive the seasons is not gonna happen. Spending the time to strengthen the already standing buildings of the past can happen. Player Cities would be based in the ruins of old towns. Once they had gotten to a certain size (say 3/4 of all building in the area have been turned into revived buildings) they can start building new buildings, but these would be no where near as good as the brick and mortar buildings of old.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I think it'd be neat if you could single handedly start an NPC town. Like, having to wander the area in search of NPCs and actually going through dialogue scripts that changed according to reputation/faction to convince them to run such and such shop in your town.
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I like that idea that existing structures are going to be the starting point for any player cities. Weapons shops would be built upon the old department stores, gun stores, armories, etc.. Places that featured content like this before the apocolypse.
I suppose it depends on how "built-up" the devs are going to allow the existing structures to be when we take our first steps. I can't wait to see how it turns out
Well I hope we will have are own place to live in the game like in SWG. Even if It is an old building or house where we can move in too.
A place where we can put are stuff that we get in the game, just a place to hang out.
However to get the merchants, you may have to compete with other players for them.... Yea, hopefully there will be many old towns crawling with creatures and tribals and raiders and the like. Can't wait to see what they're up to.
Yea, thats definately what it seems we all want. Not instanced houses like Anarchy Online or Guild Wars, but actually defined places like SWG and Ultima Online.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Which would be both realistic and fun.
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Which would be both realistic and fun.
Excellent idea. I like the idea of static merhcants. But, if the city was constantly under attack, the merchants suffered consistent losses to both NPC & Player attacks on their caravans, they may be more likely move? This could probably best be filled with Player merchants. Which, probably ties in to the economic structure of the gaming economy as well. But, maybe NPCs could fill the spot:
Since, the more NPC merchants we have with unlimited supplies of such and such, for players to buy, the more money moves out of the economy( Since, the NPC merchants are most definitely not going to be spending the cash they receive from us ). Maybe they just deal in basic necessities? Maybe they have limited supplies dependent on their caravans that successfully make it into the city? That would be kind of interesting. Players would be encouraged to help the NPC merchants guard their caravans from raiders and wasteland beasts because that means more, differing supplies to buy in their city. Plus, it gives players alternate jobs to do to earn money. I think this has been mentioned somewhere before? But, like anything else, it opens the door to being taken advantage of, if not implemented properly.
I like that idea of attracting merchants to operate in your cities.
That idea could address many desirable and undesirable facets in the player base.
Why not let people build their own houses? That would work out great for those who don't live in the cities...
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
A secure place for your inventory would be nice to have as allthere suggested. I suppose they could have some kind of community storage for us to rent in towns for excess inventory ( until we can build homes that might be a secure storage area ). I definitely like the idea of building our own houses though. Would be even better if it were possible to make them unique in some fashion ( other than what we furnish it with ). But that is a bit of a stretch I suppose.
Ok, I'm gonna touch on a few things here. Its alot, but its good so bear with me.
For NPC merchants, I think they should deal in general, basic supplies (water, food, ammo, clothing, etc), with some dealing in specific markets (lower level armor, weapons, tools, etc). A decent, semi-dedicated player merchant should be able to make supplies that atleast meet these NPC merchants' item quality. The general merchants would be found in bars and general stores, while the specific merchants would be in their own stores or in a bazaar (I always liked the idea of seeing a ton of merchants selling their wares in an open area on a main street). They could even try to sell their wares while you walk past ("Look at this beautiful gun, surely you have no better?"), and could have varying quality depending on how many people come to them.
I do like the idea of NPC merchants as a money sink (or supply sink in this game), as otherwise the game gets quickly inflated. Again I must push for a barter system with no money and allow the NPCs to haggle (they have a built-in pricing system and the closer you get to a fair deal or a deal in their favor they will go "if you give me a little more its a deal"). After a while, the players may create their own monetary system, but that would be us to do.
Also, if a town or its caravans are continually raided, or if a merchant almost never gets any customers I think they should leave, maybe telling the leader(s) of the town first. The danger, or the feeling of being useless would drive them away. And yes, that would encourage players to defend caravans so that merchants they need stay, as well as merchants not used are removed and clear up the city of clutter. Heading to your favorite store after being away for a week and finding it gone, and then realizing you should have been nice to the merchant because you were his only customer.
Another thing is, if you want to hurt a rival town, attack its caravans and remove all its merchants. This would quickly spawn fun rivalries, as long as they keep it civil (no 14 year olds spouting profanities need apply
).
Edgtho, the reason that we wouldn't want players to have their own buildings outside of maybe a very small area around civilized towns, is because then you get 2 things: Ubran sprawl and "Fort Krayt" situations. Urban sprawl is where you have tons of houses outside of NPC cities, just clogging up the entire landscape. It happens in all games that have open player housing and it just never looks good. "Fort Krayt" is basically when players set up their houses and other structures near content to get a monopoly on it. They would set their houses near resources or dungeons and control the content for themselves.
Another is what I said before, we don't have anyone to build these houses. There are no more construction workers, brick layers, crane operators. Basically, you're lucky if your shack don't fall over. In SWG, the houses just appear out of thin air. Its kinda unrealistic, and just takes away from the setting. Also, it allows the devs to not have to worry about housing as much. They can work on it in a later patch if the community wants it very bad.
As a replacement, I would say they should add appartments to the game. 3-4 story buildings with maybe 8-10 decent-sized rooms (size of a small house in SWG?). You'd talk to the owner in the lobby, and rent a room for a price, and then he'd give you a key and tell you what room you were in, and then you'd acctually walk up to the room and unlock the door to go in (none of this instanced stuff like Anarchy Online). You could have a window or two to look outside, and then you get free reign over what to do in that space, but only that space in the appartment. Maybe on the 4th floor have 4 really big rooms for much more.
Also, a bank or community storage area you could rent would be a good idea, charging by how much all your stuff weighs (0-50lbs = 2 chickens or equal trade, 50-100lbs = 4 chickens, or equal trade) rather than the flat fee that most games charge (or no fee like in Galaxies).
And I would think that player housing outside of the towns should start coming out around 6-12 months after the game starts (when the Devs think players will be advanced enough to research and build vehicles). They should be expensive, and customizable. City of Villains uses a Sims-like building tool to have villain groups build their lairs, and it should be something like that which you would use to design your building.
Heres how it should play out: you go to a construction company and they ask you if you want a ready-made design (genaric & cheaper, but still moderately expensive) or if you would like to design your own house (more expensive). If you design it yourself, your screen changes to the building interface (leaves chat box, but replaces the rest of your interface with house-building tools). You can then build the house anyway you want to with what the company has and can do, and as you add things there is a section that says "Cost: $5000" or 10 cows or something like that. I would say probably 1 basement and/or up to 3 above ground levels would be possible. Once you're done you'll get the customary "are you sure you're done" and when you say yes you get a schematic (top-down view in black and white which just shows the price, walls, doors, windows, stairs, ladders, dimesions of each room and the full house on ever level) which you can look at, copy, and trade away if you want to. You can take the schematic to any construction crew at any time, and then you pay them and they give you a NPC to follow you. You must then take this NPC to the spot where you want to put it, talk to him and you'll get to see a top-down view of the area, and you can set it up wherever it fits (like SWG). Then you get the "are you sure this is where you want it?" from the NPC and if you say yes, he tells you how long it will take (somewhere between 6 and 48 hours depending on size) and then asks you to take him back to the construction office. If he dies on the way to your house, you have to go get another and pay a fee. If he dies on the way back, you just have to pay a fee (don't want to have to penalize them too much). Then you just pay the company and wait and your house will be built.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Anyone hear whether or not there will be player skills that can be used to build/repair buildings and structures? I mean worthwhile skills not skills that just everyone can have but should a player decide they want to specialize in tech/building is this a possibility or will everyone be able to repair/build anything?
"It's the little things in life." Tech Sgt Chen
One of the major things that made SWG what it once was, is the ability to make and form the game yourself. Having made one of the more infamous cities on our server, I know what pride there is and the attraction to building a city and running can be for any player.
I agree with one of the guys above posts about being "limits". And again, I am sorry but I played SWG since beta 2 and that is what I know and love, so I draw ideas from what was once the best possible game to be made. Each planet has a SET AMOUNT OF CITIES THAT CAN BE MADE. Of that set amount of cities, there is a limit to what levels can be achieved. This could be done regionally by FE without much of a problem. I just am not 100% sure on the scale of the game right now as to assess a better opinion on how to manage regions.
Now, what could make FE BETTER than any game out there? The ability to have cities IMPROVE like Age of Empires as you progress to a new city level. I have NO idea if that is even possible, but then again the ability to change terrain is something that blows me away in a MMORPG too. But lets say this as an example (bear with me, this is off the hip)
1) Shanty Town- Pretty much steel rivited into steel making boxed type housing. Depending on the size of the house, obviously there would be a different type of look and feel. But for the most part, it would look very slapped together.
2) Outpost- A little more put together, roofs have a smoother feel to them and the city can now support mayor changes. Like barbwire, sandbags, coupel NPCs for fun. Population increased
3) Village- Houses now look a little nicer more additions can be made to a city. Maybe signs that can be edited, fountians, statues, NPCs, etc. Maybe small walls. Population increased
4) City- Well groomed housing now. Maybe even siding or something that would look "nicer" in that day and age. Population increase. Ability to build larger walls, maybe even a parking deck or a place to store vehicles. Moving around NPCs and other effects that would make the city more "civilized" looking.
5) Metropolis- Obviously extrmeely few of these to be allowed in general much less a region. Would more or less look like a real city, maybe even road making if that is ever an ability MMORPGS can do, street lights, etc.
Again, I have no idea if house looks can actually change with city improvements, but would be csomething never done that I know of and would look awesome. I would really like to see CITY WALLS come out. Something SWG screwed up on. Shadowbane has them, making a fortress looking effect. Very nice looking, but only at the advanced style cities.
With the city advancements, you could toss inturrets, or machineguns, or somekind of "perimeter" defense network system. Even after a nuke, there is still going to be some tech out there as well as those who survived that understand and can build it. Would be awesome to see fortified cities along the roadways of FE.
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com DC Main Page
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/apocalypse Sci-Fi / Apoc Theme Forums
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/citadel DnD Style Theme forums (coming soon)
I think that this problem could be very easily remedied by limiting how much players can build and setting "no-build zones".
Who said anything about building a mansion? I'd be happy with a shack. Luxury isn't something I'd be expecting much of in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, and if that's what people want, I don't think that this is the right game for them. I think houses should be very simple, and that you should have to gather a ton of resources to get one together. I also think that there should be some sort of skill that dictates how well it turns out. Still, I do believe that the ability for people to build houses outside of the cities is too big of a factor in the game's atmosphere and setting for it to be overlooked.
Again though, what about people who don't live in the cities? Do you think that the travellers (or outlaws for that matter) would have apartments? Do you think that makes sense within the context of the game? I am not trying to be rude - I simply don't understand how this is a better alternative. I think that player-built housing in fringe areas is a must for any post-apocalyptic world, and that the pros definitely outweigh the cons.
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
Personally, I hope you can build anywhere. This is, of course, because I'm also hoping that the deformable terrain feature will also extend to player-built structures
Otherwise it wouldn't work, things would pop up in bad places, content would be dominated, etc etc.
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I'm kinda torn on whether or not you should be able to build anywhere. I like the freedom of the 'build anywhere' mindset, but at the same time things can get crowded that way. In SWG, you can build practically everywhere. At first, this was awesome because guild halls were extremely hard to acquire and it really meant something to get your guild on the planet map. However, as the game matured, guild halls were easy to make, and planets got EXTREMELY crowded. It was hard to find wilderness anywhere. I'm all for a 'build anywhere' system if you can somehow prevent overcrowding.
http://www.fallenearth.se - Your source for Fallen Earth information
(see earlier post)
...to summarize: Player-built structure = like ground = can be blown up
HENCE no overcrowding.
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Says who?
Personally, I think society right now is so screwed up, I would rather not rebuild it as it is. But that's a rant for another day, suffice it to say that it won't be everyone's goal to rebuild society.
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I would love to live in a half ruined sky scraper on the top remaining floor. Imagine standing atop a fallen skyscaper droping your boots in a closet and watching the mutantlife below you... Im hoping some cities will be like Manhattan in Escsape from NY and the like. I dont want a house necisarily but maybe finding a Key to a room and running around the ruined buildings evading enemies and trying to find out wtf a "Sheriton" is... haha I only need a room not an entire house. I dont think that houses should be easy to get or that they should be large by any means. They shouldnt be bigger than a hotel suete and should be for dropping off extra gear and for chilling with some mates nothing else imo
That's an awesome visual. It would be great if you did all that, then as you're sitting in your apartment, one of the few that's still somewhat whole, some random bandit spots your light in the window. He then proceeds to run upstairs, kick down your door, and attempt to rob you. Only to be repelled by your handy sawed-off shotgun!
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Says who?
Personally, I think society right now is so screwed up, I would rather not rebuild it as it is. But that's a rant for another day, suffice it to say that it won't be everyone's goal to rebuild society.
And I quote from the Fallen Earth website FAQ -
"A world of wonders, hope and fears where you hope not only for survival but for the restoration of the very soul of civilization."
Restore civilization yes, but not back to the way it was. You could be like Thomas Jefferson, who thought that man should be mostly farmers living out in the country rather than crowded into cities and suburbs like we are now. If you're rebuilding civilization, you get to choose how its rebuilt.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
Well that would be your freedom. To restructure it as you see fit. Personally, the Durmanhoth-Clan is going to setup an Empire and rule with an iron fist wherever we go. We love large sprawling cities with economic power as well as military power. Maybe some don't want things to be 'the way they were' but neither do I or our guild. If you want to be a famer and live in a shack go ahead.
Well its good to know there will be competition in the wastes, good luck to you.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]