Originally posted by Cthulhuvong Restore civilization yes, but not back to the way it was. You could be like Thomas Jefferson, who thought that man should be mostly farmers living out in the country rather than crowded into cities and suburbs like we are now. If you're rebuilding civilization, you get to choose how its rebuilt.
Personally, I plan on playing in a manner rather removed from post-apocalyptic politics. I imagine that FE's social structure will be much like that of the Dark Ages of Europe (or the "Middle Ages" so as not to offend any Knights or serfs reading this), with petty warlords/clans dominating the landscape and clashing, with no real central authority. People like me (I'm named after a character from this time period as it is) will live independently, exploring and dusting off whatever remains of man's former glory, sort of how many Europeans - the Church in particular - tried to preserve certain elements of antiquity after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
----------------------------------- Go you must. No guest shall stay in one place for ever. Love will be lost if you sit too long at a friend's fire.
Of course, if the world did turn into such a scenario, people like what you talked about would be of much use and highly sought. Care to do a little scouting and spying?
Now some may think this has nothing to do with player cities, but it does. They will be major hubs, and thus major political problems will come about. Strong leaders will command, and weak leaders will fall in line. One thing is that there should be NO or LIMITED in game control of cities. By this I mean that there shouldn't be game mechanics in order to elect a mayor (like in SWG). The players should just find a way. Send messages to a neutral party, hand in a certain colored chip, whatever. Yes parties can be bought off, people can cheat, but that is life. Strong leaders will usurp power and only the people acctually kicking them out will mean anything. If the people do, they're just a crazy kook on the corner. If the people don't, then they have accepted his authority.
The players will find the easiest and fairest way for themselves, they always do. This is one of the truisms of gaming, no matter how hard or how nerfed something is the players will find an easier way than you make it. In Galaxies the mayoral system could be exploited, and was acctually fairly easy if you did a minute amount of planning.
There will not always be a democratic way to gain power in some places, but sometimes there will be. Who runs a city, how it maintains buildings and collects taxes, and other important things should be held up to the players and they should be allowed to do what they will with it.
Waiting For: something good Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I would prefer, if they do have political positions like a mayor for players to run for, that they use a time-frame, average population size for elections. I can only imagine if you base the elections off of the current population size, the kind of exploitation that could happen.
ie. A clan gathers all its members to enter a town before an election. They have one of their members running for the mayorial office. Of course, they have just *biased* the polling with the influx of their clan base.
I personally don't like politics at all. The further away I am from the kind of arguments and conflict politics create, the happier I am I suppose I can relate it better to say I don't prefer the darker side of politics. If there is such a thing. I prefer using valid arguments, truth-vs-deception, logic-vs-lying.. well, I'm sure that I am repeating myself in a way. But, anyway, I'll leave the politics issue alone, personally.
Though, it would be nice if they set up some kind of system that was more of a live event. Since elections probably won't happen that often, the GM's could stage a live event and become the 3rd party monitoring/managing the election. This would probably preclude any under-handedeness, lying, cheating, or stealing but it would be much more accurate and not prone to bias at the polling stations. Actually, all the lying, cheating and stealing could happen previous to the election to sway the polling. Which is probably more or less what happens in real life anyway hehe Don't get on me about that last comment, just a joke you know!
If GM's sponsoring it, is not to the liking, an in game system that is triggered by entering a voting "booth/area" could manage and talley the results accordingly. In real life, the polling is one thing that is probably least susceptible to bias. Of course exceptions will occur, but it is one of the single most monitored events. Regardless of what level the voting occurs at ( ie. president, senator, ... etc ).
By giving the players a system to manage these events, rather than someone at home keeping a talley on a peice of paper or counting emails for example, will only enhance the ease of the interface and the game experience. We are in a post-apocolyptic world, but that doesn't mean the interface cannot simulate the talleying of votes, etc. If you want the lying cheating and stealing, do it before the event itself.
Personally, I'll be out in the desert somewhere throwing rocks at a sand dune. That is about the worth of politics, in my opinion hehe
Election system? In a post nuclear, survive-or-die-trying setting? Somehow, I doubt it.
If I ever run an in-game election, it'll be a MANLY-style election. A secret ballot in the form of; the candidates stand in a hole in the ground, the each of the voters etch their vote into a knife, and throw it at the candidates. Whichever candidate "catches" the most of their own votes, wins.
Originally posted by Cthulhuvong Of course, if the world did turn into such a scenario, people like what you talked about would be of much use and highly sought. Care to do a little scouting and spying?
Ah, but of course.
----------------------------------- Go you must. No guest shall stay in one place for ever. Love will be lost if you sit too long at a friend's fire.
I think there should be an option to do either have your own rustic house or shelter, or live in a NPC city type apartment. I know personally, I loved my fortress city in SWG and I took great pride as well did the guild in its setup. Being allowed to make some kind of encampment or city would make FE 100% in my book. However, some people do not wanna live out in the wastes, in some other guys city, but still live around people, some sort of civilization and have access to city type atmosphere. Someone posted about they would love living in a burned out skyscraper in a city. HELL YES, that would be awesome. And I hope they will allow something like that in the game.
To often in SWG do people plant houses near other players cities just to feel a part of that city, because they are unable to really place a house in Theed, or any other NPC city. But, you could have a burned out Sears Tower, that could hold HUNDREDS of apartments and supply the server that way as well as a multitude of other building types for people that want to live in that fashion.
Having the best of both worlds.....is that to much to ask
Personally, I want to live in an old bell tower and hang upside down like a bat. Is that too much to ask? hehe
No, seriously, a little early in the morning for me without coffee. No offense intended, just me making a fool of myself hehe
I think that what we are all asking for is not too much to ask for at all. And, personally I would rather old structures be the sites where lodging is available. That would prevent the avalanche of crap that can happen when people just start building anywhere they want to within designated areas.
I would like to have the option to live in some old corporate offices ( maybe they would even let me live in the server room ). I definitely don't want to see an urban sprawl like in SWG, either. That was just a cluster of crap to me. I would like to see more cohesion if we are going to be allowed to build structures/apartments. Structure in the layout is almost essential to me. I hate unorganized crap like in SWG ( Most player cities had no rhyme or rhythm).
Some kind of grid system would be very excellent for city planning. Maybe a way to do that is to have a city planning grid come up as an overlay when you are trying to place a new structure. Kind of simish, but with designated zones on the grids, it could help reduce the *sprawl* of crap. Maybe even specific classes would specialize in city planning, or it could be a skill picked up by all classes as a prerequisite to building their own structures. The skill might be obtained by accessing some archived data in an old architectural firm, or a government office. Or, we could have a means of accessing standard, archived data at most cities. City Planning would be among some of the available skills, for a price. The available skills would be very few, and should not provide too much advantage, seeing as they would be available from nearly all cities. And, this only assumes the kind of structures and technology available to us when we start the game, or shortly after the launch, rather.
I still want to see old casinos. I always love playing Blackjack and Texas Hold'em.
The main problem with SWG cities having no "city feel" was the fact only a few kinds of housing would be placable next to each other creating the feel of streets. I know our city was extremely well laid out, with a business district, housing and a fortress where our 6 detachment HQs were located. But TATOOINE and DANTOOINE etc, the housing can't be placed next to each other so you lose that feel. There were several Naboo and Rori cities that were well laid out. The major Tatooine cities were just thrown around as well as the other planets. Because of the footprints.
I would really like to be able to see cities have streets and stuff to be built. I have no idea if that is even possible to do, but I am sure if they can make changable terrain in an MMORPG, there is some tech out there that would allow for streets to be laid down.
Comments
Personally, I plan on playing in a manner rather removed from post-apocalyptic politics. I imagine that FE's social structure will be much like that of the Dark Ages of Europe (or the "Middle Ages" so as not to offend any Knights or serfs reading this), with petty warlords/clans dominating the landscape and clashing, with no real central authority. People like me (I'm named after a character from this time period as it is) will live independently, exploring and dusting off whatever remains of man's former glory, sort of how many Europeans - the Church in particular - tried to preserve certain elements of antiquity after the fall of the Western Roman Empire.
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
Of course, if the world did turn into such a scenario, people like what you talked about would be of much use and highly sought. Care to do a little scouting and spying?
Now some may think this has nothing to do with player cities, but it does. They will be major hubs, and thus major political problems will come about. Strong leaders will command, and weak leaders will fall in line. One thing is that there should be NO or LIMITED in game control of cities. By this I mean that there shouldn't be game mechanics in order to elect a mayor (like in SWG). The players should just find a way. Send messages to a neutral party, hand in a certain colored chip, whatever. Yes parties can be bought off, people can cheat, but that is life. Strong leaders will usurp power and only the people acctually kicking them out will mean anything. If the people do, they're just a crazy kook on the corner. If the people don't, then they have accepted his authority.
The players will find the easiest and fairest way for themselves, they always do. This is one of the truisms of gaming, no matter how hard or how nerfed something is the players will find an easier way than you make it. In Galaxies the mayoral system could be exploited, and was acctually fairly easy if you did a minute amount of planning.
There will not always be a democratic way to gain power in some places, but sometimes there will be. Who runs a city, how it maintains buildings and collects taxes, and other important things should be held up to the players and they should be allowed to do what they will with it.
Waiting For: something good
Games Tried: SWTOR, Star Trek Online, EQ, EQ2, Earth and Beyond, Planetside, Lineage 2, Eve Online, WoW, City of Heroes, City of Villians, Auto Assault, Fallen Earth
Star Wars: Galaxies - Ibra Olasi (Valcyn Server) [Dead, screw you SOE]
I would prefer, if they do have political positions like a mayor for players to run for, that they use a time-frame, average population size for elections. I can only imagine if you base the elections off of the current population size, the kind of exploitation that could happen.
ie. A clan gathers all its members to enter a town before an election. They have one of their members running for the mayorial office. Of course, they have just *biased* the polling with the influx of their clan base.
I personally don't like politics at all. The further away I am from the kind of arguments and conflict politics create, the happier I am
I suppose I can relate it better to say I don't prefer the darker side of politics. If there is such a thing. I prefer using valid arguments, truth-vs-deception, logic-vs-lying.. well, I'm sure that I am repeating myself in a way. But, anyway, I'll leave the politics issue alone, personally.
Though, it would be nice if they set up some kind of system that was more of a live event. Since elections probably won't happen that often, the GM's could stage a live event and become the 3rd party monitoring/managing the election. This would probably preclude any under-handedeness, lying, cheating, or stealing but it would be much more accurate and not prone to bias at the polling stations. Actually, all the lying, cheating and stealing could happen previous to the election to sway the polling. Which is probably more or less what happens in real life anyway hehe Don't get on me about that last comment, just a joke you know!
If GM's sponsoring it, is not to the liking, an in game system that is triggered by entering a voting "booth/area" could manage and talley the results accordingly. In real life, the polling is one thing that is probably least susceptible to bias. Of course exceptions will occur, but it is one of the single most monitored events. Regardless of what level the voting occurs at ( ie. president, senator, ... etc ).
By giving the players a system to manage these events, rather than someone at home keeping a talley on a peice of paper or counting emails for example, will only enhance the ease of the interface and the game experience. We are in a post-apocolyptic world, but that doesn't mean the interface cannot simulate the talleying of votes, etc. If you want the lying cheating and stealing, do it before the event itself.
Personally, I'll be out in the desert somewhere throwing rocks at a sand dune. That is about the worth of politics, in my opinion hehe
Election system? In a post nuclear, survive-or-die-trying setting? Somehow, I doubt it.
If I ever run an in-game election, it'll be a MANLY-style election. A secret ballot in the form of; the candidates stand in a hole in the ground, the each of the voters etch their vote into a knife, and throw it at the candidates. Whichever candidate "catches" the most of their own votes, wins.
Now THAT's an election!
___________________
-----------------------------------
Go you must.
No guest shall stay
in one place for ever.
Love will be lost
if you sit too long
at a friend's fire.
-- The Havamal
I think there should be an option to do either have your own rustic house or shelter, or live in a NPC city type apartment. I know personally, I loved my fortress city in SWG and I took great pride as well did the guild in its setup. Being allowed to make some kind of encampment or city would make FE 100% in my book. However, some people do not wanna live out in the wastes, in some other guys city, but still live around people, some sort of civilization and have access to city type atmosphere. Someone posted about they would love living in a burned out skyscraper in a city. HELL YES, that would be awesome. And I hope they will allow something like that in the game.
To often in SWG do people plant houses near other players cities just to feel a part of that city, because they are unable to really place a house in Theed, or any other NPC city. But, you could have a burned out Sears Tower, that could hold HUNDREDS of apartments and supply the server that way as well as a multitude of other building types for people that want to live in that fashion.
Having the best of both worlds.....is that to much to ask
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com DC Main Page
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/apocalypse Sci-Fi / Apoc Theme Forums
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/citadel DnD Style Theme forums (coming soon)
Personally, I want to live in an old bell tower and hang upside down like a bat. Is that too much to ask? hehe
No, seriously, a little early in the morning for me without coffee. No offense intended, just me making a fool of myself
hehe
I think that what we are all asking for is not too much to ask for at all. And, personally I would rather old structures be the sites where lodging is available. That would prevent the avalanche of crap that can happen when people just start building anywhere they want to within designated areas.
I would like to have the option to live in some old corporate offices ( maybe they would even let me live in the server room ). I definitely don't want to see an urban sprawl like in SWG, either. That was just a cluster of crap to me. I would like to see more cohesion if we are going to be allowed to build structures/apartments. Structure in the layout is almost essential to me. I hate unorganized crap like in SWG ( Most player cities had no rhyme or rhythm).
Some kind of grid system would be very excellent for city planning. Maybe a way to do that is to have a city planning grid come up as an overlay when you are trying to place a new structure. Kind of simish, but with designated zones on the grids, it could help reduce the *sprawl* of crap. Maybe even specific classes would specialize in city planning, or it could be a skill picked up by all classes as a prerequisite to building their own structures. The skill might be obtained by accessing some archived data in an old architectural firm, or a government office. Or, we could have a means of accessing standard, archived data at most cities. City Planning would be among some of the available skills, for a price. The available skills would be very few, and should not provide too much advantage, seeing as they would be available from nearly all cities. And, this only assumes the kind of structures and technology available to us when we start the game, or shortly after the launch, rather.
I still want to see old casinos. I always love playing Blackjack and Texas Hold'em.
The main problem with SWG cities having no "city feel" was the fact only a few kinds of housing would be placable next to each other creating the feel of streets. I know our city was extremely well laid out, with a business district, housing and a fortress where our 6 detachment HQs were located. But TATOOINE and DANTOOINE etc, the housing can't be placed next to each other so you lose that feel. There were several Naboo and Rori cities that were well laid out. The major Tatooine cities were just thrown around as well as the other planets. Because of the footprints.
I would really like to be able to see cities have streets and stuff to be built. I have no idea if that is even possible to do, but I am sure if they can make changable terrain in an MMORPG, there is some tech out there that would allow for streets to be laid down.
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com DC Main Page
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/apocalypse Sci-Fi / Apoc Theme Forums
http://www.durmanhoth-clan.com/citadel DnD Style Theme forums (coming soon)