Originally posted by AzRaell33 Originally posted by Lanmoragon Kelson just because the game doesnt appeal to you, doesnt mean it wont have wide appeal. You dont after speak for everybody. The game wont have wide appeal because its a very narrow minded game so to speak. No pvp, no crafting , no solo content to speak of, the only real thing it has going for it is the D&D name and some nice graphics, but that wont be enough to keep players
I think you're wrong there.
Going after the 'massive pie' means - necessarily - going after the lowest common denominator. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time... well, you get the message.
I think the future - apart from a few breakout hits - is going to be in more niche products. You don't have to be all things to all people and - if the development is well structured - content can be easier (and cheaper) to produce.
Not everyone wants a kitchen sink game and there are certainly enough more group/PvE oriented players out there to support a game of this ilk.
Originally posted by AzRaell33 Originally posted by Lanmoragon Kelson just because the game doesnt appeal to you, doesnt mean it wont have wide appeal. You dont after speak for everybody. The game wont have wide appeal because its a very narrow minded game so to speak. No pvp, no crafting , no solo content to speak of, the only real thing it has going for it is the D&D name and some nice graphics, but that wont be enough to keep players
I think you're wrong there.
Going after the 'massive pie' means - necessarily - going after the lowest common denominator. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time... well, you get the message.
I think the future - apart from a few breakout hits - is going to be in more niche products. You don't have to be all things to all people and - if the development is well structured - content can be easier (and cheaper) to produce.
Not everyone wants a kitchen sink game and there are certainly enough more group/PvE oriented players out there to support a game of this ilk.
You say you think I am wrong but you turn around and reinforce what I was saying. You even bother to read my post?
I was commenting on the games lack of wide appeal. You go on to say you can please some people all the time yada yada bla bla then call it a niche product. Hello. Just about the same thing I was saying.
I am also talking about the games ability to endure. A game focused on particular style of play is easily overtaken by newer games that do the same but better. Like you said this style of game is easy and cheap to produce it wouldnt be much for one of the bigger game companies to make one that caters to the same play style as DDO but make it better.
I wouldnt give DDO more than a year before population drops and turdbine pulls the plug on it like they did AC2. If they would do it once they will do it again. easy and cheap to produce = easy come easy go.
I'm saying its not a bad thing and is the way things are more likely to go. That big devloper would miss the point entirely by making such a thing broader or spending more to develop it. Then it would no longer meet its criteria.
Originally posted by Kelsonmac Originally posted by DamonVile I don't think DDO fans even care if you people like it or not. If you don't like it don't play it, the fans will enjoy your absence and never even know it.
Here is a realistic list showing why you are wrong:
1. This game will sell very well upon release because it has the D&D name on it. 2. Many players are likely to quit during the first week because the game is very poor. 3. Reviewing sites and word of mouth will provide accurate reviews of this game . . that it is awful. New consumers will be discouraged and not purchase it. 4. Players who did not quit during the first week will not, in large numbers, renew their subscription. 5. DDO goes on sale for $9.99 at WalMart. Some people buy it out of sheer boredom. 6. Repeat steps 2 and 4 7. Developers offer 14 day free trials on MMORPG.COM and other gaming websites. 8. Repeat step 2. 9. Server transfers and consolidation will be implemented so that there might be a chance that some DDO "fans" might be able to find a party.
Yeah, you'll care when you are standing around for half a night looking for a party. You'll care more, though, when the servers eventually get shut down because the game is losing too much money.
Fact of the matter is, there will not be enough DDO fans to keep this game afloat.
Fact ... ? where do all your facts come from ? This happens to all MMOG over time, so where's the big ohh you're facts are a big surprise to anyone ?
WWII online wasn't even playable when it first came out, yet 4 years later it's still going. Irith online....still going and still has a fan base dispite being one of the most messed up launches ever. SWG, dispite 2 years of OMG it's going to shut down tomorrow....still going. The matrix online...another crappy game, still going. In fact there's a long list of MMOGs that have terrible ratings but have continued to run dispite all the predictions. When one of them finaly does shut down I'm sure a bunch of you idiots will swarm in there to say I CALLED IT!!! but saying every game you don't like is going to fail doesn't make you nostradamus, just arrogant.
Originally posted by AzRaell33 I wouldn’t give DDO more than a year before population drops and turdbine pulls the plug on it like they did AC2. If they would do it once they will do it again. easy and cheap to produce = easy come easy go.
Maybe find out what really happened with AC2 before you try and use it in a post. AC2 has a pretty intresting history, and a good lesson for all devs who think a big money company funding the project is always a good thing. I can't see turbine ever making a game for someone else again.
Originally posted by DamonVile I don't think DDO fans even care if you people like it or not. If you don't like it don't play it, the fans will enjoy your absence and never even know it.
Here is a realistic list showing why you are wrong:
1. This game will sell very well upon release because it has the D&D name on it. 2. Many players are likely to quit during the first week because the game is very poor. 3. Reviewing sites and word of mouth will provide accurate reviews of this game . . that it is awful. New consumers will be discouraged and not purchase it. 4. Players who did not quit during the first week will not, in large numbers, renew their subscription. 5. DDO goes on sale for $9.99 at WalMart. Some people buy it out of sheer boredom. 6. Repeat steps 2 and 4 7. Developers offer 14 day free trials on MMORPG.COM and other gaming websites. 8. Repeat step 2. 9. Server transfers and consolidation will be implemented so that there might be a chance that some DDO "fans" might be able to find a party.
Yeah, you'll care when you are standing around for half a night looking for a party. You'll care more, though, when the servers eventually get shut down because the game is losing too much money.
Fact of the matter is, there will not be enough DDO fans to keep this game afloat.
Fact ... ? where do all your facts come from ? This happens to all MMOG over time, so where's the big ohh you're facts are a big surprise to anyone ?
WWII online wasn't even playable when it first came out, yet 4 years later it's still going. Irith online....still going and still has a fan base dispite being one of the most messed up launches ever. SWG, dispite 2 years of OMG it's going to shut down tomorrow....still going. The matrix online...another crappy game, still going. In fact there's a long list of MMOGs that have terrible ratings but have continued to run dispite all the predictions. When one of them finaly does shut down I'm sure a bunch of you idiots will swarm in there to say I CALLED IT!!! but saying every game you don't like is going to fail doesn't make you nostradamus, just arrogant.
DDO will be just fine even if I don't play it.
Here is a fact for you turdbine has a reputation for pulling the plug on a game. Give a game a year and if it isnt making money pull the plug. Cant play a game if the servers are taken down now can you? You can read about it here:
I wouldnt give DDO more than a year before population drops and turdbine pulls the plug on it like they did AC2. If they would do it once they will do it again. easy and cheap to produce = easy come easy go.
Maybe find out what really happened with AC2 before you try and use it in a post. AC2 has a pretty intresting history, and a good lesson for all devs who think a big money company funding the project is always a good thing. I can't see turbine ever making a game for someone else again.
I already posted one link above. Maybe you should read a bit on it. If you need any more examples let me know I have a couple more I can dig up for you on the subject.
Originally posted by AzRaell33 I already posted one link above. Maybe you should read a bit on it. If you need any more examples let me know I have a couple more I can dig up for you on the subject.
That's a nice pretty story with no blame what-so-ever on micrsoft. Turbine was forced by MS to reslease AO2 long before it was ready because like most MMOGs it needed to be pushed back. Anyone who played it soon found that out.
When the game failed to make the big splash MS was hoping for they're the ones who said pull it. That's when turbine bought out the rights to AO2 and tryed to keep it going. Obviously it didn't work and the game was eventualy closed. So saying they have a reputation for bailing on a game when it looks bad is totally untrue. Now if we where talking about EA that's another story entierly. They pulled EnB because it wasn't a huge success and didn't want to tie up the staff running a game that wasn't making them the huge $$ they thought all MMOG made.
Now here's a question for you and anyone else ( probably ) not going to play DDO. Why come to the forums and post time and again that the games no good ? Do you think you'll be considered helpful by the people stitting on the fence about the game ? When the trolls show up on a game forum you're looking forward to, do you think they're beeing helpfull ? It's one thing to list features you dislike and would like changed, but to show up in every thread with the doom and gloom means you're just here to fight and troll.
That's a nice pretty story with no blame what-so-ever on micrsoft. Turbine was forced by MS to reslease AO2 long before it was ready because like most MMOGs it needed to be pushed back. Anyone who played it soon found that out. When the game failed to make the big splash MS was hoping for they're the ones who said pull it. That's when turbine bought out the rights to AO2 and tryed to keep it going. Obviously it didn't work and the game was eventualy closed. So saying they have a reputation for bailing on a game when it looks bad is totally untrue. Now if we where talking about EA that's another story entierly. They pulled EnB because it wasn't a huge success and didn't want to tie up the staff running a game that wasn't making them the huge $$ they thought all MMOG made.
Now here's a question for you and anyone else ( probably ) not going to play DDO. Why come to the forums and post time and again that the games no good ? Do you think you'll be considered helpful by the people stitting on the fence about the game ? When the trolls show up on a game forum you're looking forward to, do you think they're beeing helpfull ? It's one thing to list features you dislike and would like changed, but to show up in every thread with the doom and gloom means you're just here to fight and troll.
DamonVile, Something I've learned though my years of forums posting is that you can't believe everything people tell you.
Everyone that played AC2 WANTED it to be all Microsoft's fault. They didn't want to blame a company that made a game they liked. I can show you a perfect example of this on this forum. Go to the SWG boards and you'll see where LucasArts makes a press release and says somethings people don't agree with, however people don't call LucasArts liars, they call SOE liars. Somehow, even though they didn't say a word, SOE gets blamed for lying. People don't want to believe LucasArts is part of the problem, so forum posters change things around to make sure the company they like, for one reason or another, is simply the victim to a company they don't like.
So unless you see somewhere reputable that Microsoft forced Turbine to release it when Turbine wanted to wait a bit, I wouldn't be so quick to jump one company and defend the other.
Originally posted by Jodokai DamonVile,Something I've learned though my years of forums posting is that you can't believe everything people tell you.Everyone that played AC2 WANTED it to be all Microsoft's fault. They didn't want to blame a company that made a game they liked. I can show you a perfect example of this on this forum. Go to the SWG boards and you'll see where LucasArts makes a press release and says somethings people don't agree with, however people don't call LucasArts liars, they call SOE liars. Somehow, even though they didn't say a word, SOE gets blamed for lying. People don't want to believe LucasArts is part of the problem, so forum posters change things around to make sure the company they like, for one reason or another, is simply the victim to a company they don't like.So unless you see somewhere reputable that Microsoft forced Turbine to release it when Turbine wanted to wait a bit, I wouldn't be so quick to jump one company and defend the other.
I wasn't really trying to argue how AC2 got so messed up, my point was more about turbine not bailing out on a game nearly as fast as what's his name wants to imply. When MS pretty much pulled out, they could have just let the game sink yet they invested more time an money into to try and keep it going.
Arguing who's fault swg or AC2s is, is pointless I guess, because niether company would ever burn thier bridges in public and accuse the other of being at fault. They also never fully disclose who gets how much say and over what Instead they leave it up to us to create whatever story we're happy with.
Originally posted by Jodokai DamonVile,Something I've learned though my years of forums posting is that you can't believe everything people tell you.Everyone that played AC2 WANTED it to be all Microsoft's fault. They didn't want to blame a company that made a game they liked. I can show you a perfect example of this on this forum. Go to the SWG boards and you'll see where LucasArts makes a press release and says somethings people don't agree with, however people don't call LucasArts liars, they call SOE liars. Somehow, even though they didn't say a word, SOE gets blamed for lying. People don't want to believe LucasArts is part of the problem, so forum posters change things around to make sure the company they like, for one reason or another, is simply the victim to a company they don't like.So unless you see somewhere reputable that Microsoft forced Turbine to release it when Turbine wanted to wait a bit, I wouldn't be so quick to jump one company and defend the other.
I wasn't really trying to argue how AC2 got so messed up, my point was more about turbine not bailing out on a game nearly as fast as what's his name wants to imply. When MS pretty much pulled out, they could have just let the game sink yet they invested more time an money into to try and keep it going.
Arguing who's fault swg or AC2s is, is pointless I guess, because niether company would ever burn thier bridges in public and accuse the other of being at fault. They also never fully disclose who gets how much say and over what Instead they leave it up to us to create whatever story we're happy with.
You are leaving out some important points for your convenience. MS might have had the AC2 released early but who doesnt? MS carried the game until 2004 at witch point turdbine took it over exclusively. An expansion for the game is released around May or June of 2005, and turdbine announces they are closing servers thee months AFTER expansion is released around august 2005. These are facts, and you can look them up.
EDited:
Doesnt it seem odd how AC2 end coincide with DDOs beginning? AC2 still had long standing bugs not to mention nore than half the features added in the expansion didnt work, and other issues that would have required a few log nights to fix. Looks like they are dumped one game so they can finish production on another. Whats to stop them from jumping ship on DDO if it doesnt hold to expectations within a year. They still have LOTRO to fall back on. Something to think about.
Good Lord, Az... that's a bit of "tin foil hat", innit?! And show us on the doll where Turbine touched you in a bad place. You seem to have a bit of a vendetta going on.
Originally posted by Signe Good Lord, Az... that's a bit of "tin foil hat", innit?! And show us on the doll where Turbine touched you in a bad place. You seem to have a bit of a vendetta going on.
Sorry it just gripes me when people try to cover it up, or make excuses. Making a mistake is one thing trying to hide it, lie, or redirect blame is another.
Originally posted by AzRaell33 EDited: Doesn’t it seem odd how AC2 end coincide with DDO’s beginning? AC2 still had long standing bugs not to mention nore than half the features added in the expansion didnt work, and other issues that would have required a few log nights to fix. Looks like they are dumped one game so they can finish production on another. What’s to stop them from jumping ship on DDO if it doesn’t hold to expectations within a year. They still have LOTRO to fall back on. Something to think about.
You're totally right, you should give up on turbine and DDO and go have fun doing something else, in someone elses game. You have no constructive reason to ever post here again I guess do you ?
Originally posted by AzRaell33 EDited: Doesnt it seem odd how AC2 end coincide with DDOs beginning? AC2 still had long standing bugs not to mention nore than half the features added in the expansion didnt work, and other issues that would have required a few log nights to fix. Looks like they are dumped one game so they can finish production on another. Whats to stop them from jumping ship on DDO if it doesnt hold to expectations within a year. They still have LOTRO to fall back on. Something to think about.
You're totally right, you should give up on turbine and DDO and go have fun doing something else, in someone elses game. You have no constructive reason to ever post here again I guess do you ?
Well you are half right in your assessment. Due to turdbines somewhat questionable business practices I have lost faith in a company I used to hold dear. In my search for a replacement game I have wandered to these forums and found a lot of misleading information about turdbine, and how they handle things. Regardless of what you might think I am just here now to keep the record straight. Now that being said as long as there are people on these forums spreading BS about how stand up and honest turdbine is with there players I will have something constructive to say. It may not always be favorable towards turdbine, but if I have first had knowledge or a link to information that backs what I say can you blame me?
I have to disagree with you here. If a game does not fit your game style, it is a bad game. After all someone can only give their opinion, and if they don't like it, then for them it is a bad game.On the other hand, just because you like it does not make it a good or great game either.
There are no "good" or "bad" games, only opinions....?
The quality of Goodness or Badness exists independent of a single person's opinion. Many things in this world are inherently good or bad, regardless of each individual's assessment of them. Hitler's dog may have loved him: does that make him "good as far as the dog was concerned"?
You imply it is wrong for the community at large to reach a consensus on whether something is high or low quality. If i go without bathing for a month, but i think i smell just great, is my opinion just as valid as the other people on the airplane with me?
I have to disagree with you here. If a game does not fit your game style, it is a bad game. After all someone can only give their opinion, and if they don't like it, then for them it is a bad game.On the other hand, just because you like it does not make it a good or great game either.
You imply it is wrong for the community at large to reach a consensus on whether something is high or low quality. If i go without bathing for a month, but i think i smell just great, is my opinion just as valid as the other people on the airplane with me?
You have a valid point. I love this analogy. Reminds me of the flight back from Egypt, unfortunately I think I was the one who had actually bathed
Originally posted by Kelsonmac Turbine should be making a game with wide appeal that will make money for their company.Making a game for a niche crowd, especially for a so-called MMORPG, is financial suicide.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make.
Originally posted by Minsc The more subscribers over that ( 50-60k ) you go the more money you make.
That isn't always true. They have to pay for those servers. Games that have a stable population, like eve for years end up making the most money. The ones that grow really fast and die just as quick never really get to be in the black long enough to make money. WoW for example could end up being a bit of a disaster if it suffered a huge population drop from a bad patch or something. They have hundreds of servers, if 4 million people said forget this game and left blizzard would be kinda screwed.
What most people seems to forget is the fact that both DDO and LoTR are BIG franchises, turbine do not own these brands.
The people who do are by no means idiots and I think we can all rest assured that when picking partners they do their own research, most of it OUTSIDE the interweb and its flora of rumors and rumors of rumors and so on.
There is more at stake here then just these games, allthough potentially very profitable these companys stand to lose a lot of PR value of having any of these games to crash and burn.
It is a safe bet that most all big and every single small MMO company would have liked to get theirs hands on these licenses, but Turbine got them and I dare say it was not by a lottery.
The SWG situation I am sure make the process of picking publishers an even more torough project.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Originally posted by Minsc BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make. [/b][/quote]
You're kidding, right? If the subscribers don't cover the server cost and the price of buying the license (among other things) the game will not make money. This game will start out strong initially, and then lose subscribers in droves. Eventually, there won't be any new subscribers - or - at the very least, the number of new subscribers will be dwarfed by the number of cancelled accounts.
With the absolutely awful word-of-mouth this game is getting, don't count on getting a wealth of new subscribers. Also, since this is a party-based game, current subscribers will get frustrated because they will be sitting in taverns all night hoping to be able to form a party so they can adventure into their favorite instance.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people will pay $15 a month to do nothing . . . and that is exactly what this game offers . . nothing.
[quote]Originally posted by Kelsonmac [b][quote]Originally posted by Minsc BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make. [/b][/quote]
You're kidding, right? If the subscribers don't cover the server cost and the price of buying the license (among other things) the game will not make money. This game will start out strong initially, and then lose subscribers in droves. Eventually, there won't be any new subscribers - or - at the very least, the number of new subscribers will be dwarfed by the number of cancelled accounts.
With the absolutely awful word-of-mouth this game is getting, don't count on getting a wealth of new subscribers. Also, since this is a party-based game, current subscribers will get frustrated because they will be sitting in taverns all night hoping to be able to form a party so they can adventure into their favorite instance.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people will pay $15 a month to do nothing . . . and that is exactly what this game offers . . nothing.[/b][/quote]
The cost of licensing the D&D name is trivial when compared to developement costs, plus the game is being published by atari who currently holds the rights to licence any games with the D & D name. Naturally they will get a share of profits as a result of this deal. As far as server hardware goes, 50-60k subs is typically the break-even point where after the cost of server maintenance and paying hosting/wages/advertising and such is covered, you actually have some income left over. New servers are only added as needed to support a growing population and are taken away if the population dips below a certain number. You didn't actually think the companies bought all their servers did you?
It's easy to find groups in this game and it takes all of 5 minutes to get into one if you use the tools available so casual players should have no problems there. If someone gets a bad rap for being an idiot and can't get invited to a group that's their own problem.
Originally posted by Umbrood What most people seems to forget is the fact that both DDO and LoTR are BIG franchises, turbine do not own these brands. The people who do are by no means idiots and I think we can all rest assured that when picking partners they do their own research, most of it OUTSIDE the interweb and its flora of rumors and rumors of rumors and so on.
You think so huh? Well let's look at the history of these big names:
Do you know how Turbine got LotR? The company originally chosen went bankrupt and dropped it. Great research there huh?
Then let's look at WotC, aren't these the same people that authorized D&D the Movie? Yeah another great choice there.
Originally posted by Umbrood What most people seems to forget is the fact that both DDO and LoTR are BIG franchises, turbine do not own these brands. The people who do are by no means idiots and I think we can all rest assured that when picking partners they do their own research, most of it OUTSIDE the interweb and its flora of rumors and rumors of rumors and so on. There is more at stake here then just these games, allthough potentially very profitable these companys stand to lose a lot of PR value of having any of these games to crash and burn. It is a safe bet that most all big and every single small MMO company would have liked to get theirs hands on these licenses, but Turbine got them and I dare say it was not by a lottery. The SWG situation I am sure make the process of picking publishers an even more torough project.
turdbine said they could do it cheaper than the other guys and got the job. Plain and simple.
Comments
I think you're wrong there.
Going after the 'massive pie' means - necessarily - going after the lowest common denominator. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time... well, you get the message.
I think the future - apart from a few breakout hits - is going to be in more niche products. You don't have to be all things to all people and - if the development is well structured - content can be easier (and cheaper) to produce.
Not everyone wants a kitchen sink game and there are certainly enough more group/PvE oriented players out there to support a game of this ilk.
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I think you're wrong there.
Going after the 'massive pie' means - necessarily - going after the lowest common denominator. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time... well, you get the message.
I think the future - apart from a few breakout hits - is going to be in more niche products. You don't have to be all things to all people and - if the development is well structured - content can be easier (and cheaper) to produce.
Not everyone wants a kitchen sink game and there are certainly enough more group/PvE oriented players out there to support a game of this ilk.
You say you think I am wrong but you turn around and reinforce what I was saying. You even bother to read my post?
I was commenting on the games lack of wide appeal. You go on to say you can please some people all the time yada yada bla bla then call it a niche product. Hello. Just about the same thing I was saying.
I am also talking about the games ability to endure. A game focused on particular style of play is easily overtaken by newer games that do the same but better. Like you said this style of game is easy and cheap to produce it wouldnt be much for one of the bigger game companies to make one that caters to the same play style as DDO but make it better.
I wouldnt give DDO more than a year before population drops and turdbine pulls the plug on it like they did AC2. If they would do it once they will do it again. easy and cheap to produce = easy come easy go.
I'm saying its not a bad thing and is the way things are more likely to go.
That big devloper would miss the point entirely by making such a thing broader or spending more to develop it. Then it would no longer meet its criteria.
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Here is a realistic list showing why you are wrong:
1. This game will sell very well upon release because it has the D&D name on it.
2. Many players are likely to quit during the first week because the game is very poor.
3. Reviewing sites and word of mouth will provide accurate reviews of this game . . that it is awful. New consumers will be discouraged and not purchase it.
4. Players who did not quit during the first week will not, in large numbers, renew their subscription.
5. DDO goes on sale for $9.99 at WalMart. Some people buy it out of sheer boredom.
6. Repeat steps 2 and 4
7. Developers offer 14 day free trials on MMORPG.COM and other gaming websites.
8. Repeat step 2.
9. Server transfers and consolidation will be implemented so that there might be a chance that some DDO "fans" might be able to find a party.
Yeah, you'll care when you are standing around for half a night looking for a party. You'll care more, though, when the servers eventually get shut down because the game is losing too much money.
Fact of the matter is, there will not be enough DDO fans to keep this game afloat.
Fact ... ? where do all your facts come from ? This happens to all MMOG over time, so where's the big ohh you're facts are a big surprise to anyone ?
WWII online wasn't even playable when it first came out, yet 4 years later it's still going. Irith online....still going and still has a fan base dispite being one of the most messed up launches ever. SWG, dispite 2 years of OMG it's going to shut down tomorrow....still going. The matrix online...another crappy game, still going. In fact there's a long list of MMOGs that have terrible ratings but have continued to run dispite all the predictions.
When one of them finaly does shut down I'm sure a bunch of you idiots will swarm in there to say I CALLED IT!!! but saying every game you don't like is going to fail doesn't make you nostradamus, just arrogant.
DDO will be just fine even if I don't play it.
Maybe find out what really happened with AC2 before you try and use it in a post. AC2 has a pretty intresting history, and a good lesson for all devs who think a big money company funding the project is always a good thing. I can't see turbine ever making a game for someone else again.
Here is a realistic list showing why you are wrong:
1. This game will sell very well upon release because it has the D&D name on it.
2. Many players are likely to quit during the first week because the game is very poor.
3. Reviewing sites and word of mouth will provide accurate reviews of this game . . that it is awful. New consumers will be discouraged and not purchase it.
4. Players who did not quit during the first week will not, in large numbers, renew their subscription.
5. DDO goes on sale for $9.99 at WalMart. Some people buy it out of sheer boredom.
6. Repeat steps 2 and 4
7. Developers offer 14 day free trials on MMORPG.COM and other gaming websites.
8. Repeat step 2.
9. Server transfers and consolidation will be implemented so that there might be a chance that some DDO "fans" might be able to find a party.
Yeah, you'll care when you are standing around for half a night looking for a party. You'll care more, though, when the servers eventually get shut down because the game is losing too much money.
Fact of the matter is, there will not be enough DDO fans to keep this game afloat.
Fact ... ? where do all your facts come from ? This happens to all MMOG over time, so where's the big ohh you're facts are a big surprise to anyone ?
WWII online wasn't even playable when it first came out, yet 4 years later it's still going. Irith online....still going and still has a fan base dispite being one of the most messed up launches ever. SWG, dispite 2 years of OMG it's going to shut down tomorrow....still going. The matrix online...another crappy game, still going. In fact there's a long list of MMOGs that have terrible ratings but have continued to run dispite all the predictions.
When one of them finaly does shut down I'm sure a bunch of you idiots will swarm in there to say I CALLED IT!!! but saying every game you don't like is going to fail doesn't make you nostradamus, just arrogant.
DDO will be just fine even if I don't play it.
Here is a fact for you turdbine has a reputation for pulling the plug on a game. Give a game a year and if it isnt making money pull the plug. Cant play a game if the servers are taken down now can you? You can read about it here:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=883&Itemid=2Maybe find out what really happened with AC2 before you try and use it in a post. AC2 has a pretty intresting history, and a good lesson for all devs who think a big money company funding the project is always a good thing. I can't see turbine ever making a game for someone else again.
I already posted one link above. Maybe you should read a bit on it. If you need any more examples let me know I have a couple more I can dig up for you on the subject.
That's a nice pretty story with no blame what-so-ever on micrsoft. Turbine was forced by MS to reslease AO2 long before it was ready because like most MMOGs it needed to be pushed back. Anyone who played it soon found that out.
When the game failed to make the big splash MS was hoping for they're the ones who said pull it. That's when turbine bought out the rights to AO2 and tryed to keep it going. Obviously it didn't work and the game was eventualy closed. So saying they have a reputation for bailing on a game when it looks bad is totally untrue. Now if we where talking about EA that's another story entierly. They pulled EnB because it wasn't a huge success and didn't want to tie up the staff running a game that wasn't making them the huge $$ they thought all MMOG made.
Now here's a question for you and anyone else ( probably ) not going to play DDO. Why come to the forums and post time and again that the games no good ? Do you think you'll be considered helpful by the people stitting on the fence about the game ? When the trolls show up on a game forum you're looking forward to, do you think they're beeing helpfull ? It's one thing to list features you dislike and would like changed, but to show up in every thread with the doom and gloom means you're just here to fight and troll.
Something I've learned though my years of forums posting is that you can't believe everything people tell you.
Everyone that played AC2 WANTED it to be all Microsoft's fault. They didn't want to blame a company that made a game they liked. I can show you a perfect example of this on this forum. Go to the SWG boards and you'll see where LucasArts makes a press release and says somethings people don't agree with, however people don't call LucasArts liars, they call SOE liars. Somehow, even though they didn't say a word, SOE gets blamed for lying. People don't want to believe LucasArts is part of the problem, so forum posters change things around to make sure the company they like, for one reason or another, is simply the victim to a company they don't like.
So unless you see somewhere reputable that Microsoft forced Turbine to release it when Turbine wanted to wait a bit, I wouldn't be so quick to jump one company and defend the other.
I wasn't really trying to argue how AC2 got so messed up, my point was more about turbine not bailing out on a game nearly as fast as what's his name wants to imply. When MS pretty much pulled out, they could have just let the game sink yet they invested more time an money into to try and keep it going.
Arguing who's fault swg or AC2s is, is pointless I guess, because niether company would ever burn thier bridges in public and accuse the other of being at fault. They also never fully disclose who gets how much say and over what Instead they leave it up to us to create whatever story we're happy with.
I wasn't really trying to argue how AC2 got so messed up, my point was more about turbine not bailing out on a game nearly as fast as what's his name wants to imply. When MS pretty much pulled out, they could have just let the game sink yet they invested more time an money into to try and keep it going.
Arguing who's fault swg or AC2s is, is pointless I guess, because niether company would ever burn thier bridges in public and accuse the other of being at fault. They also never fully disclose who gets how much say and over what Instead they leave it up to us to create whatever story we're happy with.
You are leaving out some important points for your convenience. MS might have had the AC2 released early but who doesnt? MS carried the game until 2004 at witch point turdbine took it over exclusively. An expansion for the game is released around May or June of 2005, and turdbine announces they are closing servers thee months AFTER expansion is released around august 2005. These are facts, and you can look them up.
EDited:
Doesnt it seem odd how AC2 end coincide with DDOs beginning? AC2 still had long standing bugs not to mention nore than half the features added in the expansion didnt work, and other issues that would have required a few log nights to fix. Looks like they are dumped one game so they can finish production on another. Whats to stop them from jumping ship on DDO if it doesnt hold to expectations within a year. They still have LOTRO to fall back on. Something to think about.
Good Lord, Az... that's a bit of "tin foil hat", innit?! And show us on the doll where Turbine touched you in a bad place. You seem to have a bit of a vendetta going on.
Sorry it just gripes me when people try to cover it up, or make excuses. Making a mistake is one thing trying to hide it, lie, or redirect blame is another.
You're totally right, you should give up on turbine and DDO and go have fun doing something else, in someone elses game. You have no constructive reason to ever post here again I guess do you ?
You're totally right, you should give up on turbine and DDO and go have fun doing something else, in someone elses game. You have no constructive reason to ever post here again I guess do you ?
Well you are half right in your assessment. Due to turdbines somewhat questionable business practices I have lost faith in a company I used to hold dear. In my search for a replacement game I have wandered to these forums and found a lot of misleading information about turdbine, and how they handle things. Regardless of what you might think I am just here now to keep the record straight. Now that being said as long as there are people on these forums spreading BS about how stand up and honest turdbine is with there players I will have something constructive to say. It may not always be favorable towards turdbine, but if I have first had knowledge or a link to information that backs what I say can you blame me?
There are no "good" or "bad" games, only opinions....?
The quality of Goodness or Badness exists independent of a single person's opinion. Many things in this world are inherently good or bad, regardless of each individual's assessment of them. Hitler's dog may have loved him: does that make him "good as far as the dog was concerned"?
You imply it is wrong for the community at large to reach a consensus on whether something is high or low quality. If i go without bathing for a month, but i think i smell just great, is my opinion just as valid as the other people on the airplane with me?
Surely, narcissism has its limits....
You imply it is wrong for the community at large to reach a consensus on whether something is high or low quality. If i go without bathing for a month, but i think i smell just great, is my opinion just as valid as the other people on the airplane with me?
You have a valid point. I love this analogy. Reminds me of the flight back from Egypt, unfortunately I think I was the one who had actually bathed
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make.
That isn't always true. They have to pay for those servers. Games that have a stable population, like eve for years end up making the most money. The ones that grow really fast and die just as quick never really get to be in the black long enough to make money.
WoW for example could end up being a bit of a disaster if it suffered a huge population drop from a bad patch or something. They have hundreds of servers, if 4 million people said forget this game and left blizzard would be kinda screwed.
What most people seems to forget is the fact that both DDO and LoTR are BIG franchises, turbine do not own these brands.
The people who do are by no means idiots and I think we can all rest assured that when picking partners they do their own research, most of it OUTSIDE the interweb and its flora of rumors and rumors of rumors and so on.
There is more at stake here then just these games, allthough potentially very profitable these companys stand to lose a lot of PR value of having any of these games to crash and burn.
It is a safe bet that most all big and every single small MMO company would have liked to get theirs hands on these licenses, but Turbine got them and I dare say it was not by a lottery.
The SWG situation I am sure make the process of picking publishers an even more torough project.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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[quote]Originally posted by Minsc
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make.
[/b][/quote]
You're kidding, right? If the subscribers don't cover the server cost and the price of buying the license (among other things) the game will not make money. This game will start out strong initially, and then lose subscribers in droves. Eventually, there won't be any new subscribers - or - at the very least, the number of new subscribers will be dwarfed by the number of cancelled accounts.
With the absolutely awful word-of-mouth this game is getting, don't count on getting a wealth of new subscribers. Also, since this is a party-based game, current subscribers will get frustrated because they will be sitting in taverns all night hoping to be able to form a party so they can adventure into their favorite instance.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people will pay $15 a month to do nothing . . . and that is exactly what this game offers . . nothing.
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
[quote]Originally posted by Kelsonmac
[b][quote]Originally posted by Minsc
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZt!!!! WRONG!!
A MMORPG does NOT have to be huge like WoW to be successful. EVE-Online is a perfect example of this. They have just recently reached 80k subscribers but after 2 years their growth rate is going exponential. CCP has one of the most successful MMO's on the market if you look at how fast they are gaining subscribers.
Any MMO that breaks the 50-60K subscriber base will remain profitable. The more subscribers over that you go the more money you make.
[/b][/quote]
You're kidding, right? If the subscribers don't cover the server cost and the price of buying the license (among other things) the game will not make money. This game will start out strong initially, and then lose subscribers in droves. Eventually, there won't be any new subscribers - or - at the very least, the number of new subscribers will be dwarfed by the number of cancelled accounts.
With the absolutely awful word-of-mouth this game is getting, don't count on getting a wealth of new subscribers. Also, since this is a party-based game, current subscribers will get frustrated because they will be sitting in taverns all night hoping to be able to form a party so they can adventure into their favorite instance.
I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that people will pay $15 a month to do nothing . . . and that is exactly what this game offers . . nothing.[/b][/quote]
The cost of licensing the D&D name is trivial when compared to developement costs, plus the game is being published by atari who currently holds the rights to licence any games with the D & D name. Naturally they will get a share of profits as a result of this deal. As far as server hardware goes, 50-60k subs is typically the break-even point where after the cost of server maintenance and paying hosting/wages/advertising and such is covered, you actually have some income left over. New servers are only added as needed to support a growing population and are taken away if the population dips below a certain number. You didn't actually think the companies bought all their servers did you?
It's easy to find groups in this game and it takes all of 5 minutes to get into one if you use the tools available so casual players should have no problems there. If someone gets a bad rap for being an idiot and can't get invited to a group that's their own problem.
You think so huh? Well let's look at the history of these big names:
Do you know how Turbine got LotR? The company originally chosen went bankrupt and dropped it. Great research there huh?
Then let's look at WotC, aren't these the same people that authorized D&D the Movie? Yeah another great choice there.