Originally posted by Hashman These are when they were released FYI. UO - 30/09/1997EQ - 16/03/1999AC - 31/10/1999Edit: Lineage was released in 1998, don't know when, pretty sure that's still doing well.
Lineage 1 still has more players then those 3 combined.
Correct I didn't count Lineage 1 because it wasn't released in the states. But yes, if you count it it's UO, L1 and EQ. AC would be #4
UO was not 3D (is it now?). L1 was not in NA.
It make EQ the first 3D MMO, which is the first 2nd generation, MMO. There are no 3rd generation out yet. Graphics are nicers, but they are not worthy of a generation switch.
UO is a first generation MMO. The first? No idea, I am not THAT old!
But in the evolution chain, EQ is the first modern MMO, WoW, despite everything they claim, belong to the same generation as EQ...3D with nothing good enough to make it 3rd generation (neither is EQ2 a 3rd generation, maybe a 2.5 LOL).
DDO, Vanguard, AoC, Warhammer (and other to be released titles) MIGHT be 3rd generation MMOs, it remains to be seen and proven.
What does being 3D have to do with anything? Or generations? The OP merely asked what the 3 oldest currently active MMORPG's with over 10k players were. Those 3 are (if you count L1): UO, L1, EQ
If you do not count L1 as it wasn't released in the US and Europe: UO, EQ, AC
Either way all of them are over 7 years old.
Or are we hijacking his thread to discuss generations of game? If we're talking about generations then the following MMORPG's were "1st generation":
M59, UO, EQ, and L1. All were in development at around the same timeframe. UO released first as it was using a pre-existing engine as it's platform. EQ built their own. Not sure whether L1 built their own or not but I think they did. Regardless. All 3 MMORPG's were "1st Generation" MMORPG's. Technically M59 wasn't really an MMORPG, it was a graphical MUD. But we'll count it among the 1st Gen MMORPG's for this arguement.
The 2nd generation of MMORPG's were AC, DAOC, AO, and a few others.
The 3rd generation would be games like EVE, SWG, E&B and a few others.
I would state that WoW, EQ2, Ryzom and the current crop of MMORPG's in development are "4th generation" as they're all taking ideas from and building on the previous 3 generations (though, granted, WoW didn't add anything new, just polished the old).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Anofalye If the graphics under screenshot are representative of pre-1999 and you have a decent world size, than yes, Meridian would be older...but I have doubts about it, yet, I dunno. Yet, it would remains a "side game" nonetheless, did it even reach 100k players? Especially that I NEVER see a Meridian box on the shelves, which kinda disqualify it right away!
First of all... huh?
M59 came out in 1996, I don't know how many subscribers it reached but considering it was the first true MMO (3d or no) and the fact that the internet wasn't very popular in 96 I can't imagine it reached 100k. It certainly wasn't a side-game... I remember reading reviews of it in magazines when it came out.
Originally posted by Elnator Technically M59 wasn't really an MMORPG, it was a graphical MUD.
Originally posted by SONOFAGUNN What are the thre oldest MMO'S that still have membership in excess of 10,000 players?
There was a very famous post written on the old SWG forums defining what a MMORPG is.
Raph Koster said technically there is no specific definition of what a mmorpg is. Or at least, one official definition was never attempted. At what point does the number of players in the same gameword = "massive"? 10? 40? 100? 500? 1,000? 5,000? "Same gameworld" meaning the actions of every player directly and indirectly, influences all the other players in the same gameworld. Like the ingame economy for example.
He arrived at the point that yes TRO (The Realm Online) could be covered. Raph then said TRO does not meet the definition of MASSIVE. Raph arrived at having 300 players in the same gameworld, at teh same time, is massive enough to make one FEEL like they are in a massive-multi-playerroleplayinggame. But Raph instead stated Meridian 59 as the first MMORPG. Ultima Online as the second mmorpg. EQ as the third. And Lineage, AC, rounding it off. BUT.... there is another question nobody in this thread has attempted to answer - which is on topic!
When did Runescape release? When did AstoniaIII release? (Well, Astonia I). Those two mmorpgs might have release either before, or right after, EQ. And they both currently have far more than 10k players still playing.
UO was definatly the FIRST mmorpg to be a hit. BTW, UO was directly responsible for EQ and AC getting created. There is an article called "TheSorcererofSony" in Buisness2.0Magazine. It went into detail on the early history of MMORPGs, and what Smeadly and McQuaid went through trying to get EQ up and running. EQ was shot down by the former CEO of SONY. After a new CEO came aboard, he OK'd Smeadly's idea about EQ. UO's success was used as proof EQ could work. Hence, Raph Koster's word has the most weight in this discussion.
Originally posted by DirtySteve What about games like Shadows of Yserbius and Kingdom of Drakkar? They were around even before M59 if I recall.
Oh, you are an old fart, aren't you? hehe. I played Yserbius, too, but we can't really count it here, I think. If we did, we might have to tell everyone what we got up to in Larry Land. No one wants that.
On a side note: I didn't realise it until I did a google for TSN/Imagination Network out of curiousity, but you can actually STILL play Yserbius if you were odd enough to want to. I found THIS website, if you can get it load. It's really slow and I don't have the patience to get to their download page.
I didn't read it all, there's a ton of stuff there, but that does look like a good read, or at least some place with what appears to be credible information. Ta for the link!
Originally posted by PsyX Everquest was released on March 16, 1999 (and by some wierd reason its still alive today ppl love grinding..)
If EQ wasn't about raiding but about grouping (or soloing), I would still be playing it! Hoarder extraordinaire! The best devs SoE ever got are those who design LDoN , especially the full rewards before some sissy come to delete a very nicely done work for some raiders enforcing!
I know many "elite" raiders from TR and AL and I am sorry to tell you, group-wise they are not deserving their elite gear, never were and never would. They just kill grouping by getting rewards they doesn't deserve. Most of their chanters can't walk and chew a gum at once, with a few exceptions. Same apply to all their staff. Of course their best chanters are amazing, but their skill will never explain why some lame excuses are uber dressed. I remember soloers who impress me highly and were more deserving than me, but because of unfair raiding edges, I was ahead of them...raiding ala EQ ruins grouping.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Darkchronic Is it just me that wouldn't really count AC, EQ1 and DAoC old?
What would you consider old then?
EQ1 is well over 5 years old. I believe that AC is up there also. DAoC is a little newer, maybe 3 years or less, can't actually remember when it released. It was quite a long time after EQ1 though.
====================== It's just me, so open the door.
Originally posted by Kasmar Originally posted by Darkchronic Is it just me that wouldn't really count AC, EQ1 and DAoC old?
What would you consider old then?
EQ1 is well over 5 years old. I believe that AC is up there also. DAoC is a little newer, maybe 3 years or less, can't actually remember when it released. It was quite a long time after EQ1 though.
UO is 9 this year (as is the Realm Online but it's below 10k players, both games released in 1997). Lineage 1 is 8, EQ and AC are 7 and DAOC, AO and AC2 are 4 (Though AC2 has been cancelled so not sure it counts for the purposes of this discussion).
There aren't any MMORPG's older than these that have any significant number of players. If any. There are a few large MUDS that pre-date them but none in the 10,000+ subscriber range.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Dont forget about the original MMO Runescape lol, theyhave far over 200000 players nd you can play either free or p2p, although I doubt thats the type of MMO your looking for lol
Originally posted by stargate005 Dont forget about the original MMO Runescape lol, theyhave far over 200000 players nd you can play either free or p2p, although I doubt thats the type of MMO your looking for lol
Did you just say 'the original'? Because if you did, you don't deserve to be here.
--------------------------------------- No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Originally posted by stargate005 Dont forget about the original MMO Runescape lol, theyhave far over 200000 players nd you can play either free or p2p, although I doubt thats the type of MMO your looking for lol
Did you just say 'the original'? Because if you did, you don't deserve to be here.
I was trying to make a joke.. lol although it looks like it wasn't very good
I would have to go with UO. Damn that game is old, Its older then EQ. I should get a picture of the box I have for UO, Its the UO Charter Edition Signed by Lord Brit I might add hehe. The Box Is Frickin HUGE you wouldnt believe with a cool picture Ive got framed on my wall. Its so old the box says it only compatible with windows 95 hehe. It really is a sweet peice of MMO history
Originally posted by Sift I would have to go with UO. Damn that game is old, Its older then EQ. I should get a picture of the box I have for UO, Its the UO Charter Edition Signed by Lord Brit I might add hehe. The Box Is Frickin HUGE you wouldnt believe with a cool picture Ive got framed on my wall. Its so old the box says it only compatible with windows 95 hehe. It really is a sweet peice of MMO history
Nice, would love to see a picture of it. Hang on to that, might be worth something on ebay one day. I still have my instruction book somewhere from my original box, but it wasn't the mammoth one. If you do take a picture of that thing, send me a link to my inbox here. UO was the first wide release MMORPG and I'm still very fond of it.
Ya I am as well. The only reason I actually got the game was because my Uncle knew the owner for EA at the time. And he let him pick up 10 games for his son but his son only likes sports games as it turns out so he gave the game to me and my brothers. Who would have known my uncle would get me into MMOs. But got the whole thing for free
I'm being a little off-topic, but we should remember that there was an important game that made the online gaming market stronger, and was released before UO. Blizzard released Diablo I in January 1997 (don't flame me) and, although it was originaly a single player game, I think it was the first game to be comercially strong enough in the online gaming industry, and maybe was the game that made people believe that they should try something massive. It can't be called a mmorpg, mainly because people didnt interact in the same world, but amount of people playing simultaneously was really impressive for that time. I really think it had influence over the release of UO in November of the same year
Originally posted by tunairaiol I'm being a little off-topic, but we should remember that there was an important game that made the online gaming market stronger, and was released before UO. Blizzard released Diablo I in January 1997 (don't flame me) and, although it was originaly a single player game, I think it was the first game to be comercially strong enough in the online gaming industry, and maybe was the game that made people believe that they should try something massive. It can't be called a mmorpg, mainly because people didnt interact in the same world, but amount of people playing simultaneously was really impressive for that time. I really think it had influence over the release of UO in November of the same year
True and good point. I think Diablo gave people a taste of what they could do in a game like UO. Diablo definitely fueled the fantasies of gamers. I so loved Diablo and UO.
I dont think Meridian was as big as UO I could be wrong but UO was massive in its day. Im not sure if Diablo would have influenced the game so much as it was already mostly developed by the time Diablo came out . but I think I may have helped bring people into MMO's and helped UO turn big
Comments
<message deleted>
<message deleted>
What does being 3D have to do with anything? Or generations? The OP merely asked what the 3 oldest currently active MMORPG's with over 10k players were. Those 3 are (if you count L1):
UO, L1, EQ
If you do not count L1 as it wasn't released in the US and Europe:
UO, EQ, AC
Either way all of them are over 7 years old.
Or are we hijacking his thread to discuss generations of game? If we're talking about generations then the following MMORPG's were "1st generation":
M59, UO, EQ, and L1. All were in development at around the same timeframe. UO released first as it was using a pre-existing engine as it's platform. EQ built their own. Not sure whether L1 built their own or not but I think they did. Regardless. All 3 MMORPG's were "1st Generation" MMORPG's. Technically M59 wasn't really an MMORPG, it was a graphical MUD. But we'll count it among the 1st Gen MMORPG's for this arguement.
The 2nd generation of MMORPG's were AC, DAOC, AO, and a few others.
The 3rd generation would be games like EVE, SWG, E&B and a few others.
I would state that WoW, EQ2, Ryzom and the current crop of MMORPG's in development are "4th generation" as they're all taking ideas from and building on the previous 3 generations (though, granted, WoW didn't add anything new, just polished the old).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
First of all... huh?
M59 came out in 1996, I don't know how many subscribers it reached but considering it was the first true MMO (3d or no) and the fact that the internet wasn't very popular in 96 I can't imagine it reached 100k. It certainly wasn't a side-game... I remember reading reviews of it in magazines when it came out.
So was EQ... In fact, so are most MMORPGs.
Some facts
Ultima Online Released on September 30, 1997
Meridian 59 was published in September 1996 by 3DO. this is the first MMORPG in my opinion since i dont
count the realm as a mmorpg.
The realm online December 31, 1996 (how ever not being a mmorg since it is in fact a graphical MUD i dunno if it should be counted or not)
Linage 1 released in 1998 by NCsoft
Everquest was released on March 16, 1999 (and by some wierd reason its still alive today ppl love grinding..)
DAOC released on October 10, 2001.
There you go..
Anarchy Online ..... release date.... :
June 27, 2001
There was a very famous post written on the old SWG forums defining what a MMORPG is.
Raph Koster said technically there is no specific definition of what a mmorpg is. Or at least, one official definition was never attempted. At what point does the number of players in the same gameword = "massive"? 10? 40? 100? 500? 1,000? 5,000? "Same gameworld" meaning the actions of every player directly and indirectly, influences all the other players in the same gameworld. Like the ingame economy for example.
More on Raph Koster:
His personal website: http://www.raphkoster.com/stories/index.shtml
Various articles on him, by him, about him: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=raph+koster
He arrived at the point that yes TRO (The Realm Online) could be covered. Raph then said TRO does not meet the definition of MASSIVE. Raph arrived at having 300 players in the same gameworld, at teh same time, is massive enough to make one FEEL like they are in a massive-multi-player role playing game. But Raph instead stated Meridian 59 as the first MMORPG. Ultima Online as the second mmorpg. EQ as the third. And Lineage, AC, rounding it off. BUT.... there is another question nobody in this thread has attempted to answer - which is on topic!
When did Runescape release? When did Astonia III release? (Well, Astonia I). Those two mmorpgs might have release either before, or right after, EQ. And they both currently have far more than 10k players still playing.
UO was definatly the FIRST mmorpg to be a hit. BTW, UO was directly responsible for EQ and AC getting created. There is an article called "The Sorcerer of Sony" in Buisness 2.0 Magazine. It went into detail on the early history of MMORPGs, and what Smeadly and McQuaid went through trying to get EQ up and running. EQ was shot down by the former CEO of SONY. After a new CEO came aboard, he OK'd Smeadly's idea about EQ. UO's success was used as proof EQ could work. Hence, Raph Koster's word has the most weight in this discussion.
-Personal Website (A Work still in progress):
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html
-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, Freelancer, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
-More SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol
-More EQ, Dungeon Siege, *UXO*, Diablo II:Lords of Destruction:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
-EverQuest II, Horizons:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01
-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
-DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02
-Coming sooner or later... CoH, WoW, MXO, UO, GW, As3, RS
What about games like Shadows of Yserbius and Kingdom of Drakkar? They were around even before M59 if I recall.
Oh, you are an old fart, aren't you? hehe. I played Yserbius, too, but we can't really count it here, I think. If we did, we might have to tell everyone what we got up to in Larry Land. No one wants that.
On a side note: I didn't realise it until I did a google for TSN/Imagination Network out of curiousity, but you can actually STILL play Yserbius if you were odd enough to want to. I found
THIS website, if you can get it load. It's really slow and I don't have the patience to get to their download page.
Everyone might find this a good read.
http://www.sfasoft.com/kb/MMORPG
I didn't read it all, there's a ton of stuff there, but that does look like a good read, or at least some place with what appears to be credible information. Ta for the link!
If EQ wasn't about raiding but about grouping (or soloing), I would still be playing it! Hoarder extraordinaire!
I know many "elite" raiders from TR and AL and I am sorry to tell you, group-wise they are not deserving their elite gear, never were and never would. They just kill grouping by getting rewards they doesn't deserve. Most of their chanters can't walk and chew a gum at once, with a few exceptions. Same apply to all their staff. Of course their best chanters are amazing, but their skill will never explain why some lame excuses are uber dressed.
I remember soloers who impress me highly and were more deserving than me, but because of unfair raiding edges, I was ahead of them...raiding ala EQ ruins grouping.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
What would you consider old then?
EQ1 is well over 5 years old. I believe that AC is up there also. DAoC is a little newer, maybe 3 years or less, can't actually remember when it released. It was quite a long time after EQ1 though.
======================
It's just me, so open the door.
The Realm is a graphical MUD?
Erm, WTF? The Realm most certainly is not a graphical MMO, click to move anybody?
---------------------------------------
No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
What would you consider old then?
EQ1 is well over 5 years old. I believe that AC is up there also. DAoC is a little newer, maybe 3 years or less, can't actually remember when it released. It was quite a long time after EQ1 though.
UO is 9 this year (as is the Realm Online but it's below 10k players, both games released in 1997). Lineage 1 is 8, EQ and AC are 7 and DAOC, AO and AC2 are 4 (Though AC2 has been cancelled so not sure it counts for the purposes of this discussion).
There aren't any MMORPG's older than these that have any significant number of players. If any. There are a few large MUDS that pre-date them but none in the 10,000+ subscriber range.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Did you just say 'the original'? Because if you did, you don't deserve to be here.
---------------------------------------
No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.
Did you just say 'the original'? Because if you did, you don't deserve to be here.
I was trying to make a joke.. lol although it looks like it wasn't very good
I would have to go with UO. Damn that game is old, Its older then EQ. I should get a picture of the box I have for UO, Its the UO Charter Edition Signed by Lord Brit I might add hehe. The Box Is Frickin HUGE you wouldnt believe with a cool picture Ive got framed on my wall. Its so old the box says it only compatible with windows 95 hehe. It really is a sweet peice of MMO history
Ya I am as well. The only reason I actually got the game was because my Uncle knew the owner for EA at the time. And he let him pick up 10 games for his son but his son only likes sports games as it turns out so he gave the game to me and my brothers. Who would have known my uncle would get me into MMOs. But got the whole thing for free
I'm being a little off-topic, but we should remember that there was an important game that made the online gaming market stronger, and was released before UO. Blizzard released Diablo I in January 1997 (don't flame me) and, although it was originaly a single player game, I think it was the first game to be comercially strong enough in the online gaming industry, and maybe was the game that made people believe that they should try something massive. It can't be called a mmorpg, mainly because people didnt interact in the same world, but amount of people playing simultaneously was really impressive for that time. I really think it had influence over the release of UO in November of the same year
Since Meridian is still alive, technically it is the oldest. Along with that other one that I can't recall (not UO)
I dont think Meridian was as big as UO I could be wrong but UO was massive in its day. Im not sure if Diablo would have influenced the game so much as it was already mostly developed by the time Diablo came out . but I think I may have helped bring people into MMO's and helped UO turn big
Meridian 59 and The Realm.
---------------------------------------
No Userbar here, sorry to disappoint.