i played it for a little while and didnt like it that much, the graphics dont seem to be near what they look in the screenshots. it felt like i was playing anarchy online (the controls and graphics) with way too many instances.
Well From what Ive been Reading I feel let down majorly. I had Big Hopes for this game and have been Anticipating it Ever since it was announced. I also Like Turbine as a Company ( Also a Huge AC fan). I'm Still going to Preorder and Beta test To form my own Opinion on the game, But just from the Number of people Who has posted on this forum; I'm going in Prepared for the worst but hopeing for the best
Win XP Home Athalon 64 3400+ 1024 DDR 400MHz RAM Duel 120 GiG HDs W/Raid 0 GeForce 6800 GT 256MB
Its not a massive multiplayer online game. Its just like its pen and paper brother.
A party online game. A complete new genre...lol.. ughe... Its only good for the true rolwplayers.
You only need 2 fighters, a clerc and a wizard and a rogue for those traps. Anything else is obsolete.
No guilds needed, no free world to discover nor craft some. Rangers complete obsolete and if your build isnot right you will have a hard time getting in a group.
This group finding downtime is very annoying.
Yes i had a good experience with a party, with a bit of roleplay and me as ranger-archer. It was fun to be in such dangererous dungeons etc.... That was just one afternoon.
All other groups if i could get in were about , quick lets end it..fast killing everyhting and peeps knwoing where to go or groups mainly doing a quest over and over to get teh treasures.
Nope its not for me. I need freedom in a game. Walk , explore, kill on my own when needed and when i like party up, aiding guild or building a bridge etc,,, None is in DDO
It seems to me that most of the complaints can be put in one of two groups: its not a traditional mmo and its not strickly following the PnP version of DnD. As to the first group of complaints that could be a good thing; even if it is only a moderate success it might help other companies find the courage to try new things. As to the second group of complaints, Ive played in several PnP groups and each one was completely different from the other, so I dont see how someone can say this goes against the defined DnD feel when its been my experience that there is no single definition of what DnD is.
For the other concerns Ive seen posted, itll be hard to tell until its been out a month or so to see how of an issue they will remain to be.
some people will surely like the game, others will not (I am saddly in the not club)
IMO the game is _much_ more suited to a group of friends that want to play together and build a group together. Random PUGs are going to be harder to work with in the game, and the mechanics themselves being more akin to an FPS with lots more options mean that groups are going to take a little while to get used to working together. It will be very interesting to see how the game bears out over the next few months, but I expect a lot of negative feedback from people that expect a more slow and methodical combat system. I personally _really_ don't like the general feel of combat in the game, it just bugs the heck out of me.
The game is pretty (aside from the goofy halfling running)...I just think most people will be sorely disappointed since they will expect combat mechanics more along the lines of NWN...but end up with a pseudo-fps click'm deal.
Why would someone pay a monthly fee for ddo, when you can essentially get the exact same thing without a monthly fee once Neverwinter Nights 2 comes out?
If anything, NWN2 has more potential because it will have a DM client that enables people to jump into the role of a dungeon master and make up quests/adventures on the fly.
At the end of the day, if you can only go into instances with small groups, the only advantage ddo will have over NWN2 is gigantic staging areas. Having played NWN1 multiplayer, I can't even fathom paying a monthly fee for DDO knowing NWN2 will soon come along to fulfill my D&D jones
I am a member of a weekly D&D gaming group and all of us were fortunate to get into the beta. At first the game was fun, which I attribute to the 'being different' factor. Unfortunately it has become a tad boring and somehow lacking. Is it the lack of open lands to explore? Is it the action oriented combat, which is more FPS than rpg, or perhaps it is some other intangible quality?
Having played D&D for almost 30 years (yes I am THAT old) and having been through the evolution of the PnP game I feel I have a fair understanding of what an RPG like D&D should be. I have also been playing MMORPG's for over 10 years, and have played many for at least a month or more as a paying customer. The issue most people seem to have, my friends and I included is that an MMORPG is very different from a PnP RPG, and that seems to be the problem with DDO. The dynamic, constant motion of a persistent game world is just not present. The game feels like it will be just the same, regardless of when or if I go back. There is no real sense of being able to make a difference or somehow help or affect your fellow gamers.
To sum it up, DDO is just too much like PnP D&D...
Originally posted by sunshadow21 It seems to me that most of the complaints can be put in one of two groups: its not a traditional mmo and its not strickly following the PnP version of DnD.
You can try and stick us in one or the other groups but that's not gonna work.
The game does NOT fit into a MMO OR a convert of the PnP game.
DDO isn't an MMORPG It also isn't anything like PnP AD&D. I really question whether anyone who persists in saying that it is has actually PLAYED a PnP session of AD&D in their entire life. Because DDO isn't a damn thing like it other than the skills you can get and the way you gain XP (and even that isn't perfect because different DM's will award XP differently). Other than those 2 MINOR areas, DDO just isn't D&D at all.
TBH I found EVERQUEST more like AD&D than I found DDO to be. And that's just.... sad.
DDO also isn't really an RPG, it's got ELEMENTS of an RPG but it's more of a CORFPS.
Computer Online Roleplaying First Person Shooter.
Now, don't get me wrong... DDO is an ok game... but monthly fee material? Not hardly.
It's not AD&D not by a long shot. It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book. It's got no crafting. It's got no housing. It's got no pvp, not even duels. It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds).
It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years. They wouldn't have made the world so .... rigid...
It's like they totally forgot what Made Asheron's Call a success: A single persistant world that you can walk from 1 end to the other without ever zoning.
The core mechanics of the game aren't bad. The XP system and Skill system match up well... it's the rest of the game, the combat, the instancing, the constant zoning, the lack of anything other than questing to do... that is what kills DDO...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
After reading through this thread, quick summary of why DDO sucks.
"Instanced zones/Zoning is very bad (think most of you mentioned how OTT this was) Quirky control system/twitch based combat. Boring quests No exploration Spellcasting was a little iffy, same with archery Too much brown Characters horribly done Nothing to do BUT quest and buy/sell stuff"
Originally posted by hadz I think the main problem with DDO is that D&D PnP rules are in NO WAY suited to an involving computer game, and particularly NOT to an MMO.
Can't believe you said that.
Exactly how big are the instanced areas you go into, are they as big as a Guild Wars Mission for example or like a mini dungeon such as library WoW's Scarlet Monastry. Just trying to get an idea of scale because for a lot of supposedly beta testers in this thread there isn't a great deal of specific information.
At first, I thought the game did feel far too much like Guild Wars. I think I'll have to change my mind and say it feels even MORE like RYL...except with instanced EVERYTHING. In RYL at least you could explor while you quested. With DDO, there is no exploration, JUST questing. As a long time DM and Player of D&D (1st through 3rd) I can't remember a time where my players or myself went straight through the quest into the dungeon without exploring a bit and making sure we were ready. Even then, their were always so many ways to go about things that a game like this just can't adjust for it. This is an action-RPG. I wanted something more akin to NWN where the rounds were fairly easy to recognize and you could really plan ahead. With this its just hold down attack and dodge around.
Just remembered something else. Another reason D&DO could be the way it is, is due to it's setting. Eberron. Now what people have to realize, if they don't already know is that the feel for Eberron is suppose to be different. It's suppose to be more fast paced, more action focused like I believe(if I recall correctly there are special action rules in the actual setting book that are suppose to add to this). In the actual campaign setting book for Eberron there is a list of movies to inspire you and that inspired the creators of the setting that is to help set the mood and mindset of an Eberron adventure. Here are the movies listed. Brotherhood of the Wolf, Casablanca, From Hell, The Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Sleepy Hollow, Maltese Falcon, and Name of the Rose. I've only seen some of these myself but fast paced, quick, etc seems to relate to some of the them. Where as the feel for a Forgotten Realms setting (which most other D&D games release have been based in) is something else. Case in point, travel in two are different which helps tell the difference between Eberron and other D&D settings. Usually you have boat travel, horses. Eberron has elemental controlled airships, seaships, lighting rails (trains), all powered by magic moving at insane speeds. This is mostly what I've gotten from novels and read in the setting book.
Still while I haven't played D&DO myself, I do realize that it's goign to be different from AD&D cause it isn't that. The feel for Eberron is suppose to be different from other D&D settings. So I think those disappointed in it not being AD&D might have to consider that it isn't going to feel like a Forgotten Realms setting which is most likely what most D&D fans are used to or mostly know.
It definitely has more of a fast pace to it, thats for sure. Now, I just got done playing it for an hour and I really have to say, if this was a single player, offline game, I would be more than happy to shell out $50 for it. I'm just not sure about it being a monthly subscription based game. It just doesnt' have the...feel of a continuing saga. I'm not saying thats bad, just different. Its definitely a FUN game, just not entirely what I was expecting.
I applaud Turbine for being different and sticking to its guns. However, I hate to admit it, I think Turbine would have been better off making a MMO based on the lore, gameplay concepts, etc.. behind DD. I think they got caught up in making the PnP DD into a MMO format, and honestly, NWN is a much better interpretation as players can make their own modules to share and DM. Like I said, I like what Turbine did but I think it just wasn't the "best" idea.
Well I have to say I was really let down by the beta. Also because I thought so much of AC and AC2 I went to sign up for AC2 again and Turbine had yanked the game just after releasing an expansion. I would completely pissed if I had purchased the expansion. Kinda makes me leary of Turbine now. I felt they had some decent concepts going but like someone else said I think NWN did it much much better.
If you're expecting it to be WoW, you're in need of a reality check. DDO is not WoW, and it will never be WoW, or EQ, or GW, or any of that.
It's not about creating an MMO with the D&D theme, remember what happened when someone tried to create an MMO with the Star Wars theme?
It's about bringing the PnP version of the game, the game that's been one of the most popular RPGs for 30+ years, to the PC and online. It stays true to the PnP game, and totally brings that feel to you as you're playing it.
If you expect it to be like all the other MMO clones out there, if you want it to be like WoW or something else, you should probably go play that game. If you like the PnP RPG, you will like D&D Online.
It's different because you don't just sit there and have autoattack going, you don't have to kill 500 bunnies to get to level 2.
One of the biggest differences of course, will be that the average age of players in DDO will be higher. Alot less 'B.net kiddies' so to speak. It's a game for more mature players who like the RPG element of MMOs and not the 'I have to be better than the next guy' aspect.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
[quote]Originally posted by Blurr [b] If you're expecting it to be WoW, you're in need of a reality check. DDO is not WoW, and it will never be WoW, or EQ, or GW, or any of that. It's not about creating an MMO with the D&D theme, remember what happened when someone tried to create an MMO with the Star Wars theme? [/quote]
Oh please that is like comparing apples and oranges.
However putting D&D in a online version is NOT. Why? D&D has always been about gaining experience, leveling up, adventuring, gettign drunk at the tavern and starting a fight. That is the basis for every online adventure to date practically!
Star Wars was a movie, Not a GAME that's been around for 30 some odd years now...
You are right, we shouldn't expect it to be like WoW or EQ but it SHOULD be like D&D and it's not. IT's also NOT what made WoW, EQ, DAoC and the other online fantasy games FUN.
What is DD0?
Time will tell, I think it'll flop and that's sad because I REALLY want a online D&D game. I am a hard core D&D for 20 some odd years. My D&D collection is over 700 books! I love the game.
Originally posted by Celestian Oh please that is like comparing apples and oranges. However putting D&D in a online version is NOT. Why? D&D has always been about gaining experience, leveling up, adventuring, gettign drunk at the tavern and starting a fight. That is the basis for every online adventure to date practically! Star Wars was a movie, Not a GAME that's been around for 30 some odd years now... You are right, we shouldn't expect it to be like WoW or EQ but it SHOULD be like D&D and it's not. IT's also NOT what made WoW, EQ, DAoC and the other online fantasy games FUN.
Well firstly, I never saw anything wrong with comparing apples to oranges in the first place. But my point was that if they just took the MMO systems that every other game out there uses and slapped a D&D logo on the box, it would most certainly fail. Why I used star wars was because that was a perfect example, so is Enter The Meatrix, of where a company decided they would make an MMO to try and cash in on the lucrative market, and they figured they could do that by wrapping it in a popular setting. Turbine set out NOT to do that, and I think they've accomplished their goal.
We must play very different games of D&D. I play only once a week for a 5 hour session, but I've never EVER found D&D to be all about just gaining experience to get the next level and starting a fight at the tavern. To me, D&D is about going on an adventure, solving puzzles and acomplishing goals that no ordinary folk can do. It's about being the hero who saved the town from the dragon, not being the hero who's the highest level with a flaming sword and custom helmet.
To me, bringing D&D to an online game is bringing the ability to do things and succeed on your own merit, not by just jumping through a set of hoops. DDO is designed to bring this aspect to the player. You don't get exp for killing monsters because you don't have to kill monsters to succeed. If you have to go down into a dungeon and get a ruby, it doesn't matter how you do it. As long as you get the ruby then you've succeeded. This allows people to use their brain and actually solve problems. In other games you would simply go into the dungeon, kill all the monsters on the way to the ruby, and then walk out. So you have to get a cleric, and a tank, and whatever else, and do the quest the same exact way everyone else does it, walk in, kill monsters, wait for hp to come back, kill more monsters, etc. In DDO, you might go as a rogue and sneak past everyone to take the ruby, all by yourself. You might have the wizard use invisibility on people. You might have a warrior draw away all the guards while someone runs in to snatch the ruby. You might find a secret door that takes you in the back way.
Also your character doesn't have to be the same as everyone elses. A warrior can use strength and heavy weapons, with lots of armor, or one who uses light weapons with high dexterity. A warrior who focuses on tripping his opponents or one who focuses on using ranged weapons. Perhaps a warrior who has some levels in rogue and likes to use magic wands. I was playing DDO with a group the other day and we found a rune on the wall which would let us complete our objectives easier, but we didn't have wizards or sorcerers in the group so we thought we'd have to pass by it, only to have our fighter come along and activate the rune, because he'd decided to have high intelligence and play his warrior that way.
It's about being unique and finding your own unique way to have these adventures and feel a sense of accomplishment for figuring it out. That's what DDO is to me, and that's what D&D is to me too. So I say they've done what they set out to do.
Don't get me wrong, it has it's flaws as every game does. But don't get down on the game because it's not just another carbon copy of all the other MMOs out there.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by hadz I think the main problem with DDO is that D&D PnP rules are in NO WAY suited to an involving computer game, and particularly NOT to an MMO.
Can't believe you said that.
Well, if you look at the CONTEXT you will see what I'm saying...
"I think the main problem with DDO is that [strict] D&D PnP rules are in NO WAY suited to an involving computer game, and particularly NOT to an MMO. For example, pretend that DDO was structured like a "normal" MMO, ie you lock on to a target mob and fight it. With a STRICT conversion of PnP rules you would have the Fighter, Rogue & Barbarian classes doing absolutely NOTHING during a fight (ie no "clickable" skills to lay on a mob during a fight) and the Paladin & Ranger would also be doing ALMOST nothing (with their limited spellsets, that are often mainly buffing). That is 5 out of 9 classes that do NOTHING during a mob fight! Which is basically the whole game in DDO. Therefore they HAD TO ADD the click to fight and block mechanism or this game we be TOTALLY non-interactive for more than 50% of the classes, NOT a winner. People are always begging for change, but when one comes (even if it's not really an original change) everyone whines!"
While I do agree that a lot of MMOs from EQ onward are LOOSELY BASED on a D&D type world, they certainly don't come close to D&D PnP rules. They are forced to add a lot of "things" to do during combat. Whereas with PURE PnP D&D translated to a computer game/MMO there isn't any of those "things" to do. Witness - Neverwinter Nights - play a pure Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue during combat and you'll see there's almost nothing to do except retarget/reposition and heal potion/pack. (and even with NWN ADDING a number of nonpure-D&D based things like taunt and a few others, you still have very little to do)
"It's not AD&D not by a long shot. It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book. It's got no crafting. It's got no housing. It's got no pvp, not even duels. It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds).
It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years."
I think this about sums it up, even if it was free I dont think this game would be a success.
Yes I have to agree NWN and EQ1 are FAR better versions of DnD. Im looking forward to NWN2 and skiping this one.
Originally posted by Shazzel "It's not AD&D not by a long shot. It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book. It's got no crafting. It's got no housing. It's got no pvp, not even duels. It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds). It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years."
I think this about sums it up, even if it was free I dont think this game would be a success. Yes I have to agree NWN and EQ1 are FAR better versions of DnD. Im looking forward to NWN2 and skiping this one.
Secconded.
A crap edition of D&D deserves a crap MMoRPG made about it.
Originally posted by Shazzel "It's not AD&D not by a long shot. It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book. It's got no crafting. It's got no housing. It's got no pvp, not even duels. It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds). It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years."
I think this about sums it up, even if it was free I dont think this game would be a success. Yes I have to agree NWN and EQ1 are FAR better versions of DnD. Im looking forward to NWN2 and skiping this one.
I couldnt agree with you more in any other way. This explains this pile of crap they call a game exactly. Kinda sad a game made 6 years ago hit the market better, than this one coming out in a few months. You would think people look to the past to see what worked but not Turbine! LoL i expected nothing less than a dissapointment when i found they were the DEV team, they couldnt design an intresting game of PONG. Is how far behind they are now..
Comments
i played it for a little while and didnt like it that much, the graphics dont seem to be near what they look in the screenshots. it felt like i was playing anarchy online (the controls and graphics) with way too many instances.
I'm Still going to Preorder and Beta test To form my own Opinion on the game, But just from the Number of people Who has posted on this forum; I'm going in Prepared for the worst but hopeing for the best
Win XP Home
Athalon 64 3400+
1024 DDR 400MHz RAM
Duel 120 GiG HDs W/Raid 0
GeForce 6800 GT 256MB
Its not a massive multiplayer online game. Its just like its pen and paper brother.
A party online game. A complete new genre...lol.. ughe... Its only good for the true rolwplayers.
You only need 2 fighters, a clerc and a wizard and a rogue for those traps. Anything else is obsolete.
No guilds needed, no free world to discover nor craft some. Rangers complete obsolete and if your build isnot right you will have a hard time getting in a group.
This group finding downtime is very annoying.
Yes i had a good experience with a party, with a bit of roleplay and me as ranger-archer. It was fun to be in such dangererous dungeons etc.... That was just one afternoon.
All other groups if i could get in were about , quick lets end it..fast killing everyhting and peeps knwoing where to go or groups mainly doing a quest over and over to get teh treasures.
Nope its not for me. I need freedom in a game. Walk , explore, kill on my own when needed and when i like party up, aiding guild or building a bridge etc,,, None is in DDO
Have no fear, Xru is here.
It seems to me that most of the complaints can be put in one of two groups: its not a traditional mmo and its not strickly following the PnP version of DnD. As to the first group of complaints that could be a good thing; even if it is only a moderate success it might help other companies find the courage to try new things. As to the second group of complaints, Ive played in several PnP groups and each one was completely different from the other, so I dont see how someone can say this goes against the defined DnD feel when its been my experience that there is no single definition of what DnD is.
For the other concerns Ive seen posted, itll be hard to tell until its been out a month or so to see how of an issue they will remain to be.
well, I worked with the beta for a while...
some people will surely like the game, others will not (I am saddly in the not club)
IMO the game is _much_ more suited to a group of friends that want to play together and build a group together. Random PUGs are going to be harder to work with in the game, and the mechanics themselves being more akin to an FPS with lots more options mean that groups are going to take a little while to get used to working together. It will be very interesting to see how the game bears out over the next few months, but I expect a lot of negative feedback from people that expect a more slow and methodical combat system. I personally _really_ don't like the general feel of combat in the game, it just bugs the heck out of me.
The game is pretty (aside from the goofy halfling running)...I just think most people will be sorely disappointed since they will expect combat mechanics more along the lines of NWN...but end up with a pseudo-fps click'm deal.
perendengue
Here's my main question...
Why would someone pay a monthly fee for ddo, when you can essentially get the exact same thing without a monthly fee once Neverwinter Nights 2 comes out?
If anything, NWN2 has more potential because it will have a DM client that enables people to jump into the role of a dungeon master and make up quests/adventures on the fly.
At the end of the day, if you can only go into instances with small groups, the only advantage ddo will have over NWN2 is gigantic staging areas. Having played NWN1 multiplayer, I can't even fathom paying a monthly fee for DDO knowing NWN2 will soon come along to fulfill my D&D jones
I am a member of a weekly D&D gaming group and all of us were fortunate to get into the beta. At first the game was fun, which I attribute to the 'being different' factor. Unfortunately it has become a tad boring and somehow lacking. Is it the lack of open lands to explore? Is it the action oriented combat, which is more FPS than rpg, or perhaps it is some other intangible quality?
Having played D&D for almost 30 years (yes I am THAT old) and having been through the evolution of the PnP game I feel I have a fair understanding of what an RPG like D&D should be. I have also been playing MMORPG's for over 10 years, and have played many for at least a month or more as a paying customer. The issue most people seem to have, my friends and I included is that an MMORPG is very different from a PnP RPG, and that seems to be the problem with DDO. The dynamic, constant motion of a persistent game world is just not present. The game feels like it will be just the same, regardless of when or if I go back. There is no real sense of being able to make a difference or somehow help or affect your fellow gamers.
To sum it up, DDO is just too much like PnP D&D...
You can try and stick us in one or the other groups but that's not gonna work.
The game does NOT fit into a MMO OR a convert of the PnP game.
It's neither.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
DDO isn't an MMORPG
It also isn't anything like PnP AD&D. I really question whether anyone who persists in saying that it is has actually PLAYED a PnP session of AD&D in their entire life. Because DDO isn't a damn thing like it other than the skills you can get and the way you gain XP (and even that isn't perfect because different DM's will award XP differently). Other than those 2 MINOR areas, DDO just isn't D&D at all.
TBH I found EVERQUEST more like AD&D than I found DDO to be. And that's just.... sad.
DDO also isn't really an RPG, it's got ELEMENTS of an RPG but it's more of a CORFPS.
Computer Online Roleplaying First Person Shooter.
Now, don't get me wrong... DDO is an ok game... but monthly fee material? Not hardly.
It's not AD&D not by a long shot.
It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book.
It's got no crafting.
It's got no housing.
It's got no pvp, not even duels.
It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds).
It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years. They wouldn't have made the world so .... rigid...
It's like they totally forgot what Made Asheron's Call a success:
A single persistant world that you can walk from 1 end to the other without ever zoning.
The core mechanics of the game aren't bad. The XP system and Skill system match up well... it's the rest of the game, the combat, the instancing, the constant zoning, the lack of anything other than questing to do... that is what kills DDO...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
After reading through this thread, quick summary of why DDO sucks.
"Instanced zones/Zoning is very bad (think most of you mentioned how OTT this was)
Quirky control system/twitch based combat.
Boring quests
No exploration
Spellcasting was a little iffy, same with archery
Too much brown
Characters horribly done
Nothing to do BUT quest and buy/sell stuff"
Can't believe you said that.
Exactly how big are the instanced areas you go into, are they as big as a Guild Wars Mission for example or like a mini dungeon such as library WoW's Scarlet Monastry. Just trying to get an idea of scale because for a lot of supposedly beta testers in this thread there isn't a great deal of specific information.
At first, I thought the game did feel far too much like Guild Wars. I think I'll have to change my mind and say it feels even MORE like RYL...except with instanced EVERYTHING. In RYL at least you could explor while you quested. With DDO, there is no exploration, JUST questing. As a long time DM and Player of D&D (1st through 3rd) I can't remember a time where my players or myself went straight through the quest into the dungeon without exploring a bit and making sure we were ready. Even then, their were always so many ways to go about things that a game like this just can't adjust for it. This is an action-RPG. I wanted something more akin to NWN where the rounds were fairly easy to recognize and you could really plan ahead. With this its just hold down attack and dodge around.
Just remembered something else. Another reason D&DO could be the way it is, is due to it's setting. Eberron. Now what people have to realize, if they don't already know is that the feel for Eberron is suppose to be different. It's suppose to be more fast paced, more action focused like I believe(if I recall correctly there are special action rules in the actual setting book that are suppose to add to this). In the actual campaign setting book for Eberron there is a list of movies to inspire you and that inspired the creators of the setting that is to help set the mood and mindset of an Eberron adventure. Here are the movies listed. Brotherhood of the Wolf, Casablanca, From Hell, The Mummy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Sleepy Hollow, Maltese Falcon, and Name of the Rose. I've only seen some of these myself but fast paced, quick, etc seems to relate to some of the them. Where as the feel for a Forgotten Realms setting (which most other D&D games release have been based in) is something else. Case in point, travel in two are different which helps tell the difference between Eberron and other D&D settings. Usually you have boat travel, horses. Eberron has elemental controlled airships, seaships, lighting rails (trains), all powered by magic moving at insane speeds. This is mostly what I've gotten from novels and read in the setting book.
Still while I haven't played D&DO myself, I do realize that it's goign to be different from AD&D cause it isn't that. The feel for Eberron is suppose to be different from other D&D settings. So I think those disappointed in it not being AD&D might have to consider that it isn't going to feel like a Forgotten Realms setting which is most likely what most D&D fans are used to or mostly know.
Just a thought that should be considered.
It definitely has more of a fast pace to it, thats for sure. Now, I just got done playing it for an hour and I really have to say, if this was a single player, offline game, I would be more than happy to shell out $50 for it. I'm just not sure about it being a monthly subscription based game. It just doesnt' have the...feel of a continuing saga. I'm not saying thats bad, just different. Its definitely a FUN game, just not entirely what I was expecting.
I applaud Turbine for being different and sticking to its guns. However, I hate to admit it, I think Turbine would have been better off making a MMO based on the lore, gameplay concepts, etc.. behind DD. I think they got caught up in making the PnP DD into a MMO format, and honestly, NWN is a much better interpretation as players can make their own modules to share and DM. Like I said, I like what Turbine did but I think it just wasn't the "best" idea.
If you're expecting it to be WoW, you're in need of a reality check. DDO is not WoW, and it will never be WoW, or EQ, or GW, or any of that.
It's not about creating an MMO with the D&D theme, remember what happened when someone tried to create an MMO with the Star Wars theme?
It's about bringing the PnP version of the game, the game that's been one of the most popular RPGs for 30+ years, to the PC and online. It stays true to the PnP game, and totally brings that feel to you as you're playing it.
If you expect it to be like all the other MMO clones out there, if you want it to be like WoW or something else, you should probably go play that game. If you like the PnP RPG, you will like D&D Online.
It's different because you don't just sit there and have autoattack going, you don't have to kill 500 bunnies to get to level 2.
One of the biggest differences of course, will be that the average age of players in DDO will be higher. Alot less 'B.net kiddies' so to speak. It's a game for more mature players who like the RPG element of MMOs and not the 'I have to be better than the next guy' aspect.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
[quote]Originally posted by Blurr
[b]
If you're expecting it to be WoW, you're in need of a reality check. DDO is not WoW, and it will never be WoW, or EQ, or GW, or any of that.
It's not about creating an MMO with the D&D theme, remember what happened when someone tried to create an MMO with the Star Wars theme?
[/quote]
Oh please that is like comparing apples and oranges.
However putting D&D in a online version is NOT. Why? D&D has always been about gaining experience, leveling up, adventuring, gettign drunk at the tavern and starting a fight. That is the basis for every online adventure to date practically!
Star Wars was a movie, Not a GAME that's been around for 30 some odd years now...
You are right, we shouldn't expect it to be like WoW or EQ but it SHOULD be like D&D and it's not. IT's also NOT what made WoW, EQ, DAoC and the other online fantasy games FUN.
What is DD0?
Time will tell, I think it'll flop and that's sad because I REALLY want a online D&D game. I am a hard core D&D for 20 some odd years. My D&D collection is over 700 books! I love the game.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Well firstly, I never saw anything wrong with comparing apples to oranges in the first place. But my point was that if they just took the MMO systems that every other game out there uses and slapped a D&D logo on the box, it would most certainly fail. Why I used star wars was because that was a perfect example, so is Enter The Meatrix, of where a company decided they would make an MMO to try and cash in on the lucrative market, and they figured they could do that by wrapping it in a popular setting. Turbine set out NOT to do that, and I think they've accomplished their goal.
We must play very different games of D&D. I play only once a week for a 5 hour session, but I've never EVER found D&D to be all about just gaining experience to get the next level and starting a fight at the tavern. To me, D&D is about going on an adventure, solving puzzles and acomplishing goals that no ordinary folk can do. It's about being the hero who saved the town from the dragon, not being the hero who's the highest level with a flaming sword and custom helmet.
To me, bringing D&D to an online game is bringing the ability to do things and succeed on your own merit, not by just jumping through a set of hoops. DDO is designed to bring this aspect to the player. You don't get exp for killing monsters because you don't have to kill monsters to succeed. If you have to go down into a dungeon and get a ruby, it doesn't matter how you do it. As long as you get the ruby then you've succeeded. This allows people to use their brain and actually solve problems. In other games you would simply go into the dungeon, kill all the monsters on the way to the ruby, and then walk out. So you have to get a cleric, and a tank, and whatever else, and do the quest the same exact way everyone else does it, walk in, kill monsters, wait for hp to come back, kill more monsters, etc. In DDO, you might go as a rogue and sneak past everyone to take the ruby, all by yourself. You might have the wizard use invisibility on people. You might have a warrior draw away all the guards while someone runs in to snatch the ruby. You might find a secret door that takes you in the back way.
Also your character doesn't have to be the same as everyone elses. A warrior can use strength and heavy weapons, with lots of armor, or one who uses light weapons with high dexterity. A warrior who focuses on tripping his opponents or one who focuses on using ranged weapons. Perhaps a warrior who has some levels in rogue and likes to use magic wands. I was playing DDO with a group the other day and we found a rune on the wall which would let us complete our objectives easier, but we didn't have wizards or sorcerers in the group so we thought we'd have to pass by it, only to have our fighter come along and activate the rune, because he'd decided to have high intelligence and play his warrior that way.
It's about being unique and finding your own unique way to have these adventures and feel a sense of accomplishment for figuring it out. That's what DDO is to me, and that's what D&D is to me too. So I say they've done what they set out to do.
Don't get me wrong, it has it's flaws as every game does. But don't get down on the game because it's not just another carbon copy of all the other MMOs out there.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Can't believe you said that.
Well, if you look at the CONTEXT you will see what I'm saying...
"I think the main problem with DDO is that [strict] D&D PnP rules are in NO WAY suited to an involving computer game, and particularly NOT to an MMO. For example, pretend that DDO was structured like a "normal" MMO, ie you lock on to a target mob and fight it. With a STRICT conversion of PnP rules you would have the Fighter, Rogue & Barbarian classes doing absolutely NOTHING during a fight (ie no "clickable" skills to lay on a mob during a fight) and the Paladin & Ranger would also be doing ALMOST nothing (with their limited spellsets, that are often mainly buffing). That is 5 out of 9 classes that do NOTHING during a mob fight! Which is basically the whole game in DDO. Therefore they HAD TO ADD the click to fight and block mechanism or this game we be TOTALLY non-interactive for more than 50% of the classes, NOT a winner. People are always begging for change, but when one comes (even if it's not really an original change) everyone whines!"
While I do agree that a lot of MMOs from EQ onward are LOOSELY BASED on a D&D type world, they certainly don't come close to D&D PnP rules. They are forced to add a lot of "things" to do during combat. Whereas with PURE PnP D&D translated to a computer game/MMO there isn't any of those "things" to do. Witness - Neverwinter Nights - play a pure Barbarian, Fighter or Rogue during combat and you'll see there's almost nothing to do except retarget/reposition and heal potion/pack. (and even with NWN ADDING a number of nonpure-D&D based things like taunt and a few others, you still have very little to do)
"It's not AD&D not by a long shot.
It's not a persistant world that players can have any impact on whatsoever so not an MMORPG by my book.
It's got no crafting.
It's got no housing.
It's got no pvp, not even duels.
It's got no evil vs. good at all (and even though AD&D was about coop you ALWAYS had the option to be evil, within certain bounds).
It just falls flat. Which, unfortunately, is EXACTLY what I expected from a Turbine production. They just don't "get" their community. It's as if none of the people actually working on the project ever actually played AD&D. If they had they wouldn't have made it an FPS style combat game. Not in a billion years."
I think this about sums it up, even if it was free I dont think this game would be a success.
Yes I have to agree NWN and EQ1 are FAR better versions of DnD. Im looking forward to NWN2 and skiping this one.
Secconded.
A crap edition of D&D deserves a crap MMoRPG made about it.
Well the game is not that bad...
But pay a monthly fee for a crappy instanced game with no PvP, no craft, no raids... it's a joke, right?
Better pass and get Guild Wrs or Neerwinter nights
And that's exactly what I said...
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Isn't Neverwinter Nights 2 coming out in a few months?
I have a feeling it'll be a nail in the DDO's coffin.