I dont recall seeing anyone defend the poor judgment and foolish buisness practices of other game companies. If you look around you'll find the players give other companies a hard time as well. But when it comes to SOE, they have a rap sheet a mile long. They wrote the book on how to crap on customers.
Originally posted by spookytooth ...what hypocracy? I dont recall seeing anyone defend the poor judgment and foolish buisness practices of other game companies. If you look around you'll find the players give other companies a hard time as well. But when it comes to SOE, they have a rap sheet a mile long. They wrote the book on how to crap on customers.
Then you aren't looking hard enough. I've gotten flamed for pointing out what other companies have done by people trying to rationalize how their favorite company isn't as bad even though their doing the same thing.
CCP GOT VOTED BEST COMPANY! You don't see the hypocracy? Especially considering how people claim to feel about using real world money on ingame items.
I also love how whenever something happens with SWG everyone blames SOE and forgets LucasArts is just as involved with producing that game as SOE is. As I've stated before, I can show you a thread on this site where 29 different posts attribute something a LucasArts Employee said to SOE.
Originally posted by admriker444 SOE is the most dishonest mmo developer out there. For goodness sake they hire and use Public Relations officials to "communicate" with their player base. And what they've done with SWG recently with this NGE (New Game Enhancement) crosses the line. The one rule we all rely on with mmorpgs is they the core of the game stays the same. Why else would a player want to invest time and money in a mmorpg if the developer will toss out your work every 6 months ? People who dont play SWG may not fully realize what SOE did to us. Therefore lets make an analogy to World of Warcraft since many play that. You play a lvl 60 Warlock in WoW. You have spent everyday since launch playing and building your toon to great power and wealth. You have all Epic Gear, the best possible on the server. You even managed to get extremely lucky and loot an Orange Staff, the best around. You've also built up quite a nice business selling cloth armor as a 300 Tailor. WoW announces an expansion with new quests and items. You decide to buy the expansion for the game because one of the promised features of this expansion is a new warlock pet from a quest in that expansion (in other words, the only way to get that pet is to buy the expansion) 2 days after the expansion is released you are shocked to read on the forums a MAJOR revamp is coming. And whats worse is its going live in 2 weeks. What it involves... 1.) Warlock will no longer exist. Devs were having a terrible time balancing so many different classes and talents so they decided to combine all cloth wearers into one lump now to be called Casters. Talents are now gone so everyone will be the same. 2.) Crafting changes - From now on it will be very easy to loot blue and purple items. The drops will be superior to any player made goods so crafters are now pointless. 3.) Changing combat to a FPS with no auto targeting. This in essence means your epic gear is worthless. Now all that matters is who can click faster and is better at aiming with their mouses. It wont matter if your wand is the highest DPS wand possible if you cant hit your target. Also there is no collision detection so mobs can shoot you through walls, hills, trees, etc and they never miss. 4.) Since the expansion is pretty much pointless now that your warlock doesnt even exist anymore, we'll offer a limited refund to a select few who bought between certain dates. We will make sure to make this process difficult so you get discouraged and not bother with it. This of course is being done to avoid any nasty lawsuits from screwing over our players. 5.) After all these changes go into effect, we'll announce a letter from the Publisher will be coming to talk about the changes coming to enhance your gameplay. Then we'll remain silent on this issue for 3 months while continuing to promise this letter is coming. We will do this to string along our players for as long as possible so we can squeeze a few more months of subcriptions out of them. Then we'll announce the game is being shut down and blame the players for this. This is pretty much what SOE has done to the players and will do soon (the coming cancellation announcement). Not to mention the lies and total mismanagement of a once great game. And why was this done....all in the name of GREED. SOE wasnt happy with 200k+ players so they revamped the game and now have less than 40k players (and falling)
Look. I know you've been told this before. I've read some of the other stuff you've written in other posts. But I'll say it to you again. You're putting down SOE for doing some of the same stuff that other MMO's do. Actually, what most MMO's do.
Why is it that you feel it's your duty to go after SOE? Do you really think anyone is reading what you write and thinking, "Hey, he's right, I've never seen another MMO do those hideous things before." Not to mention you do realize that changes in MMO's are expected and in most cases looked forward to.
Originally posted by Rekindle SOE has lots of innovative ideas designed to capture your dollar. They like to release expansions for their games on a semi regular basis. They haven't really left the radar in the last few months with their station exchange ideas, their combat updates to EQ2, their changes to SWG, the alleged assertions made by the CBS Mailbag guy around business practices. Over the years I've had a great deal of respect for Everquest and the discman, but I'm curious what others think about SOE. Love them or hate them: What do you think of SOE?
I took Stats I, II, and III in college. With that in mind I learned a bit about polling. I am looking at your polling questions and they are worded in a way that will give you some unreliable results. What if I don't like Smedly but I think SOE is still a good company? Then I'm stuck without an answer right?
============================= It all seems so stupid It makes me want to give up But why should I give up When it all seems so stupid
Look. I know you've been told this before. I've read some of the other stuff you've written in other posts. But I'll say it to you again. You're putting down SOE for doing some of the same stuff that other MMO's do. Actually, what most MMO's do. Why is it that you feel it's your duty to go after SOE? Do you really think anyone is reading what you write and thinking, "Hey, he's right, I've never seen another MMO do those hideous things before." Not to mention you do realize that changes in MMO's are expected and in most cases looked forward to. But now you're after SOE because they have a PR department. Read this dude... World of Warcraft Interview "Responses" My point again is, every company does these things. You're just a little hypersensitive about SOE and it's clouding your judgment.
Um, actually no. That's completely untrue. Either you are purposely totally ignoring the TENS of THOUSANDS of verbatum complaints against SOE in this issue, or you are actually just not knowledgable in the subject (SOE specificly, not gaming). That's not intended as an insult, I simply believe you are making an off the cuff remark that is normally valid, except that SOE has gone waaaay beyond the norm.
No MMO company has completely re-written a game from the very basic core of it's fabric and tried to shove it down it's consumers throats. a la SWG. They patch. They expand. They don't completely rewrite / redo.
I buy a car from Ford (SWG), drive it home, I'm happy. I know I'll have to do maintenance (patches), but hey, I understand, this is the nature of things.
But I don't expect to wake up in the morning to look in my garage and find out the Ford makers snuck in the middle of the night and rebuilt my car into a Datsun (SWG: NGE).
When you purchased the game, it came with a very clear notice that online gaming experience may change.
The problem is not with SOE or Smedley, it's with the SWG team. Everybody clamors about how much they hate SOE and SOE is so evil, blah blah, but they're only saying this in reference to SWG, but not the other games that SOE have up and running. Same goes for Smedley, he has an obligation to gather good PR. I doubt he'd still have a job if he came out and said "We made a mistake".
Next time you want to bash a company for one of their products, keep in mind that a company is comprised of MANY people and MANY products and services. Bashing SOE is like bashing Squaresoft because they made one bad RPG, or bashing Apple for making one bad product, etc...
Originally posted by RATFather Um, actually no. That's completely untrue. Either you are purposely totally ignoring the TENS of THOUSANDS of verbatum complaints against SOE in this issue, or you are actually just not knowledgable in the subject (SOE specificly, not gaming). That's not intended as an insult, I simply believe you are making an off the cuff remark that is normally valid, except that SOE has gone waaaay beyond the norm. No MMO company has completely re-written a game from the very basic core of it's fabric and tried to shove it down it's consumers throats. a la SWG. They patch. They expand. They don't completely rewrite / redo. I buy a car from Ford (SWG), drive it home, I'm happy. I know I'll have to do maintenance (patches), but hey, I understand, this is the nature of things. But I don't expect to wake up in the morning to look in my garage and find out the Ford makers snuck in the middle of the night and rebuilt my car into a Datsun (SWG: NGE).
Actually a more accurate example would be Ford and Dodge come and remake your car to a Mopar car, but that's not really the point. The point is, why is that JUST SOE? Why doesn't anyone include LucasArts in there with SWG?
SOE is evil. I played SWG until I just couldn't stand it anymore. I felt like they were trying to force feed me a pile of crap, changing the game apparently on a whim with no regards to game balance or what the players want. In "fixing" one thing, they'd break five others, then deny that the five others were broken.
Oh, and that's not even mentioning their horrible customer service and history of lies and shady business practices.
-Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Look. I know you've been told this before. I've read some of the other stuff you've written in other posts. But I'll say it to you again. You're putting down SOE for doing some of the same stuff that other MMO's do. Actually, what most MMO's do. Why is it that you feel it's your duty to go after SOE? Do you really think anyone is reading what you write and thinking, "Hey, he's right, I've never seen another MMO do those hideous things before." Not to mention you do realize that changes in MMO's are expected and in most cases looked forward to. But now you're after SOE because they have a PR department. Read this dude... World of Warcraft Interview "Responses" My point again is, every company does these things. You're just a little hypersensitive about SOE and it's clouding your judgment.
Um, actually no. That's completely untrue. Either you are purposely totally ignoring the TENS of THOUSANDS of verbatum complaints against SOE in this issue, or you are actually just not knowledgable in the subject (SOE specificly, not gaming). That's not intended as an insult, I simply believe you are making an off the cuff remark that is normally valid, except that SOE has gone waaaay beyond the norm.
No MMO company has completely re-written a game from the very basic core of it's fabric and tried to shove it down it's consumers throats. a la SWG. They patch. They expand. They don't completely rewrite / redo.
I buy a car from Ford (SWG), drive it home, I'm happy. I know I'll have to do maintenance (patches), but hey, I understand, this is the nature of things.
But I don't expect to wake up in the morning to look in my garage and find out the Ford makers snuck in the middle of the night and rebuilt my car into a Datsun (SWG: NGE).
I would agree if I was just talking about just SWG. But I was talking about all of SOE. The poster I was getting onto has posted nothing but negative stuff about SOE on everything they do. And it just gets old.
I play EQ2 and I have a lot of fun playing it. I've had absolutely no problems with SOE. I've used their online live support and their phone support and got good service on both and my problem solved. I think that people forget that although they might still be under the SOE umbrella, each game has it's own development team and workers. It wouldn't seem fair to throw my anger towards the other innocent development teams.
Anyways, SWG redo was a risk. They took it with one game. If it messes up I don't think they're going to be dumb enough to make it on the other games they have. So that would seem to me more reason to play the other SOE games.
I DO know that EQ2 is fun, and EQ1 is fun. And every single EQ2 update they've made has made the game more fun. So, my point was that SOE bashing just seems a little bit of a broad criticism. I don't get mad at EA Games because some people playing Madden get dissed and choose to not buy Battle for Middle Earth. Seems like the same logic should be applied here. They're different dev teams.
Originally posted by Ranma13 When you purchased the game, it came with a very clear notice that online gaming experience may change.The problem is not with SOE or Smedley, it's with the SWG team. Everybody clamors about how much they hate SOE and SOE is so evil, blah blah, but they're only saying this in reference to SWG, but not the other games that SOE have up and running. Same goes for Smedley, he has an obligation to gather good PR. I doubt he'd still have a job if he came out and said "We made a mistake".Next time you want to bash a company for one of their products, keep in mind that a company is comprised of MANY people and MANY products and services. Bashing SOE is like bashing Squaresoft because they made one bad RPG, or bashing Apple for making one bad product, etc...
"Game experience may change during online play" refers to the ESRB notice and has nothing to do with the game other than that. People use that all the time not realising what it refers to.
While you can "blame" whoever you like for the state of a game, the buck stops with the head guy. That's who is responsible for the decisions made by anyone under him and who sets the sort of atmosphere which decides whether or not a company acts in the manner it does. If a company, any company, treats it's customers in a despicable manner, it's the top dog who condones it. How could it be any other way? If he doesn't know what's going on down the line, he's a bad leader and should be sacked anyway.
Originally posted by admriker444 SOE is the most dishonest mmo developer out there. For goodness sake they hire and use Public Relations officials to "communicate" with their player base. And what they've done with SWG recently with this NGE (New Game Enhancement) crosses the line. The one rule we all rely on with mmorpgs is they the core of the game stays the same. Why else would a player want to invest time and money in a mmorpg if the developer will toss out your work every 6 months ? People who dont play SWG may not fully realize what SOE did to us. Therefore lets make an analogy to World of Warcraft since many play that. You play a lvl 60 Warlock in WoW. You have spent everyday since launch playing and building your toon to great power and wealth. You have all Epic Gear, the best possible on the server. You even managed to get extremely lucky and loot an Orange Staff, the best around. You've also built up quite a nice business selling cloth armor as a 300 Tailor. WoW announces an expansion with new quests and items. You decide to buy the expansion for the game because one of the promised features of this expansion is a new warlock pet from a quest in that expansion (in other words, the only way to get that pet is to buy the expansion) 2 days after the expansion is released you are shocked to read on the forums a MAJOR revamp is coming. And whats worse is its going live in 2 weeks. What it involves... 1.) Warlock will no longer exist. Devs were having a terrible time balancing so many different classes and talents so they decided to combine all cloth wearers into one lump now to be called Casters. Talents are now gone so everyone will be the same. 2.) Crafting changes - From now on it will be very easy to loot blue and purple items. The drops will be superior to any player made goods so crafters are now pointless. 3.) Changing combat to a FPS with no auto targeting. This in essence means your epic gear is worthless. Now all that matters is who can click faster and is better at aiming with their mouses. It wont matter if your wand is the highest DPS wand possible if you cant hit your target. Also there is no collision detection so mobs can shoot you through walls, hills, trees, etc and they never miss. 4.) Since the expansion is pretty much pointless now that your warlock doesnt even exist anymore, we'll offer a limited refund to a select few who bought between certain dates. We will make sure to make this process difficult so you get discouraged and not bother with it. This of course is being done to avoid any nasty lawsuits from screwing over our players. 5.) After all these changes go into effect, we'll announce a letter from the Publisher will be coming to talk about the changes coming to enhance your gameplay. Then we'll remain silent on this issue for 3 months while continuing to promise this letter is coming. We will do this to string along our players for as long as possible so we can squeeze a few more months of subcriptions out of them. Then we'll announce the game is being shut down and blame the players for this. This is pretty much what SOE has done to the players and will do soon (the coming cancellation announcement). Not to mention the lies and total mismanagement of a once great game. And why was this done....all in the name of GREED. SOE wasnt happy with 200k+ players so they revamped the game and now have less than 40k players (and falling)
this is an excellent post and good analogy.
/bump
past players and current players of SWG, you got pwn3d by SOE!!111!
While you can "blame" whoever you like for the state of a game, the buck stops with the head guy. That's who is responsible for the decisions made by anyone under him and who sets the sort of atmosphere which decides whether or not a company acts in the manner it does. If a company, any company, treats it's customers in a despicable manner, it's the top dog who condones it. How could it be any other way? If he doesn't know what's going on down the line, he's a bad leader and should be sacked anyway.
So why is that "Top Dog" John Smeadly? Why isn't it Julio Torres? You do know he's the producer of SWG right? You do know that a producer is in charge of the decisions for that game, and that's what we seem to be talking about. We're not talking about a company, we're talking about the way a company handled ONE of their games. And there were TWO companies making that game, so why is only one to blame?
Originally posted by Ranma13 Gee porgie, it's like my post never got read...
Get used to in Ranma. Anything that proves that people are just mindlessly bashing and have no idea what they're talking about just gets ignored. It's a lot easier than actually taking the time to reevaluate their thinking.
What will really start to get to you is after hundreds of posts proving how wrong they are, on your hundred and first post when you say they're wrong, the accuse you of having no facts...all the facts they chose not to read.
Wrong or right, I despise Smedley and all scum sucking molluscs involved with making decisions concerning SWG.
I play EVE-online now, and have found that CCP doesn't enjoy crapping on thier customers. In 10 months of playing EVE I've had not one single complaint or gripe against CCP on any matter. In the one year I spent playing SWG (nearly two for my girlfriend), I was plagued with bugs and problems. Crap, sorry non-existant customer service and when I complained on the forums I got banned.
I've played a few MMORPGs, and to be honest SOE is evil. To those who say "What about Lucas Arts?", well if I saw George Lucas on the street today I'd spit in his face and maybe kick him in the happy sacks. Partly for SWG but mostly for doing a hatchet job on those prequals, and then butchering (remastering) the original episodes. I mean one camp robot was enough but ep 1-3 we've got like armies of robots that sound like Julian Clary, Lucas is evil and a twisted pervert.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by admriker444 SOE is the most dishonest mmo developer out there. For goodness sake they hire and use Public Relations officials to "communicate" with their player base. And what they've done with SWG recently with this NGE (New Game Enhancement) crosses the line. The one rule we all rely on with mmorpgs is they the core of the game stays the same. Why else would a player want to invest time and money in a mmorpg if the developer will toss out your work every 6 months ? People who dont play SWG may not fully realize what SOE did to us. Therefore lets make an analogy to World of Warcraft since many play that. You play a lvl 60 Warlock in WoW. You have spent everyday since launch playing and building your toon to great power and wealth. You have all Epic Gear, the best possible on the server. You even managed to get extremely lucky and loot an Orange Staff, the best around. You've also built up quite a nice business selling cloth armor as a 300 Tailor. WoW announces an expansion with new quests and items. You decide to buy the expansion for the game because one of the promised features of this expansion is a new warlock pet from a quest in that expansion (in other words, the only way to get that pet is to buy the expansion) 2 days after the expansion is released you are shocked to read on the forums a MAJOR revamp is coming. And whats worse is its going live in 2 weeks. What it involves... 1.) Warlock will no longer exist. Devs were having a terrible time balancing so many different classes and talents so they decided to combine all cloth wearers into one lump now to be called Casters. Talents are now gone so everyone will be the same. 2.) Crafting changes - From now on it will be very easy to loot blue and purple items. The drops will be superior to any player made goods so crafters are now pointless. 3.) Changing combat to a FPS with no auto targeting. This in essence means your epic gear is worthless. Now all that matters is who can click faster and is better at aiming with their mouses. It wont matter if your wand is the highest DPS wand possible if you cant hit your target. Also there is no collision detection so mobs can shoot you through walls, hills, trees, etc and they never miss. 4.) Since the expansion is pretty much pointless now that your warlock doesnt even exist anymore, we'll offer a limited refund to a select few who bought between certain dates. We will make sure to make this process difficult so you get discouraged and not bother with it. This of course is being done to avoid any nasty lawsuits from screwing over our players. 5.) After all these changes go into effect, we'll announce a letter from the Publisher will be coming to talk about the changes coming to enhance your gameplay. Then we'll remain silent on this issue for 3 months while continuing to promise this letter is coming. We will do this to string along our players for as long as possible so we can squeeze a few more months of subcriptions out of them. Then we'll announce the game is being shut down and blame the players for this. This is pretty much what SOE has done to the players and will do soon (the coming cancellation announcement). Not to mention the lies and total mismanagement of a once great game. And why was this done....all in the name of GREED. SOE wasnt happy with 200k+ players so they revamped the game and now have less than 40k players (and falling)
Its not that the SONY drastically changed the game which was bad, what is bad is that the NGE sucked balls. SONY could have drastically changed the game for the better, not for the worse.
I for one have enjoyed most of the changes they have made to EQ2. The combat changes and the removal of the archtypes. I am also glad they are making tradeskills a lot less tedious with the removal of all the sub-combines.
EQ2 has a development team that actually produces. While not everyone might not like what they produce for one reason or another they do it MUCH faster than say... blizzard. The one thing I hate about WoW is that is so damn static and when a bug does pop up it's months before it's fixed.
EQ2 has also had 1 expansion and 2 adventure packs and has another expansion coming out end of Feb.... WoW has... announced some expansion thats off in the distant future that we may or may not see before we all get to bored.
Imagine how long its going to take Blizzard to revamp the pvp rank system like they are saying they are. EQ2 did the combat system revamp in what, 2-3 months? Over all... I think EQ2 is a better game unfortunately all my drone friends play WoW =(
Originally posted by Ranma13 Gee porgie, it's like my post never got read...
Which post? Sorry, see I'm all confused. Once these threads get big and all it's utter chaos to me. I just responded to that admriker444 guy first and RATFather second.
Actually, I think my response to admriker444 came before your post. Check page 3
Originally posted by Ranma13 Gee porgie, it's like my post never got read...
Get used to in Ranma. Anything that proves that people are just mindlessly bashing and have no idea what they're talking about just gets ignored. It's a lot easier than actually taking the time to reevaluate their thinking.
What will really start to get to you is after hundreds of posts proving how wrong they are, on your hundred and first post when you say they're wrong, the accuse you of having no facts...all the facts they chose not to read.
Uhhhmmmm... What are you talking about. I didn't bash anything. Maybe you didn't read all the posts.
And that's so uncool to make personal attacks. I don't think anyone appreciates being called mindless. But I guess if you feel comfortable calling someone names then that's your personality, not mine.
So just to clear this up; I was defending SOE not bashing. Check page 3 for my first comment.
Originally posted by Agricola1 I play EVE-online now, and have found that CCP doesn't enjoy crapping on thier customers. In 10 months of playing EVE I've had not one single complaint or gripe against CCP on any matter. So you're okay with people spending real life money for ingame money? If you are then cool I'm glad you're happy. If you aren't then you do have a gripe against CCP. In the one year I spent playing SWG (nearly two for my girlfriend), I was plagued with bugs and problems. Crap, sorry non-existant customer service and when I complained on the forums I got banned. I can't disagree that SWG hand TONS of bugs and the CS was horrible, but I've made numerous complaints and never been banned. I'd have to see all the facts from both sides to make a call on that. I've played a few MMORPGs, and to be honest SOE is evil. To those who say "What about Lucas Arts?", well if I saw George Lucas on the street today I'd spit in his face and maybe kick him in the happy sacks. Partly for SWG but mostly for doing a hatchet job on those prequals, and then butchering (remastering) the original episodes. I mean one camp robot was enough but ep 1-3 we've got like armies of robots that sound like Julian Clary, Lucas is evil and a twisted pervert. And I'm cool with that too. If you understand that LucasArts has equal blame reguarding SWG we're all good.
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by Signe While you can "blame" whoever you like for the state of a game, the buck stops with the head guy. That's who is responsible for the decisions made by anyone under him and who sets the sort of atmosphere which decides whether or not a company acts in the manner it does. If a company, any company, treats it's customers in a despicable manner, it's the top dog who condones it. How could it be any other way? If he doesn't know what's going on down the line, he's a bad leader and should be sacked anyway. So why is that "Top Dog" John Smeadly? Why isn't it Julio Torres? You do know he's the producer of SWG right? You do know that a producer is in charge of the decisions for that game, and that's what we seem to be talking about. We're not talking about a company, we're talking about the way a company handled ONE of their games. And there were TWO companies making that game, so why is only one to blame?
I don't why the "Top Dog" is Smedley. I'm just saying whoever it is, that's who you should hold accountable. If there are two Top Dogs, send your letters of complaint to both of them. If you're not sure who to send them to, call 'em up and ask. John Smedley does seem to be in charge and he's the one who we see wibbling bollocks on the boards sounding like he's the Top Dog, so he seems a good target for blame. I'm sure somewhere in the wilds of India or China they have a complaint department where someone will happily doze off while pretending to listen to your problems.
Originally posted by porgie Uhhhmmmm... What are you talking about. I didn't bash anything. Maybe you didn't read all the posts. And that's so uncool to make personal attacks. I don't think anyone appreciates being called mindless. But I guess if you feel comfortable calling someone names then that's your personality, not mine. I'm sure they don't appreciate it, so it's a good thing I didn't call anyone mindless. I said "mindlessly bashing". "Mindlessly" is an adverb not an adjective, it describes the way the person is bashing not the person. So just to clear this up; I was defending SOE not bashing. Check page 3 for my first comment. If you weren't bashing then you couldn't have been mindlessly bashing, so I wasn't talking to you. It was really directed at Admriker who loves to come up with conspiarcy theories against SOE using half-truths and unsubstiated "facts".
I don't why the "Top Dog" is Smedley. I'm just saying whoever it is, that's who you should hold accountable. If there are two Top Dogs, send your letters of complaint to both of them. If you're not sure who to send them to, call 'em up and ask. John Smedley does seem to be in charge and he's the one who we see wibbling bollocks on the boards sounding like he's the Top Dog, so he seems a good target for blame. I'm sure somewhere in the wilds of India or China they have a complaint department where someone will happily doze off while pretending to listen to your problems.
John Smedley is in charge of SOE. He's in charge of ALL SOE games and he works for SOE (obviously). Jullio Torres (who is also doing inteviews and PR work) is the producer for SWG, I can show you what the responibilites of a producer is if you are unsure, but generally the producer is the boss of the game. He sets deadlines, budgets, provides direction, etc. Dispite what most forum posters say, Jullio Torres works for LucasArts. So you see the difference in who you hate, is very important.
If you think John Smeadly micromanages EVERY project SOE does, and you blame him for everything in SWG, you hate SOE. If you realize that the person who provides the direction of the game works for LucasArts, then you hate LucasArts.
Comments
...what hypocracy?
I dont recall seeing anyone defend the poor judgment and foolish buisness practices of other game companies. If you look around you'll find the players give other companies a hard time as well.
But when it comes to SOE, they have a rap sheet a mile long. They wrote the book on how to crap on customers.
Then you aren't looking hard enough. I've gotten flamed for pointing out what other companies have done by people trying to rationalize how their favorite company isn't as bad even though their doing the same thing.
CCP GOT VOTED BEST COMPANY! You don't see the hypocracy? Especially considering how people claim to feel about using real world money on ingame items.
I also love how whenever something happens with SWG everyone blames SOE and forgets LucasArts is just as involved with producing that game as SOE is. As I've stated before, I can show you a thread on this site where 29 different posts attribute something a LucasArts Employee said to SOE.
Look. I know you've been told this before. I've read some of the other stuff you've written in other posts. But I'll say it to you again. You're putting down SOE for doing some of the same stuff that other MMO's do. Actually, what most MMO's do.
Why is it that you feel it's your duty to go after SOE? Do you really think anyone is reading what you write and thinking, "Hey, he's right, I've never seen another MMO do those hideous things before." Not to mention you do realize that changes in MMO's are expected and in most cases looked forward to.
But now you're after SOE because they have a PR department. Read this dude...
World of Warcraft Interview "Responses"
My point again is, every company does these things. You're just a little hypersensitive about SOE and it's clouding your judgment.
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</OBAMA>
I took Stats I, II, and III in college. With that in mind I learned a bit about polling. I am looking at your polling questions and they are worded in a way that will give you some unreliable results. What if I don't like Smedly but I think SOE is still a good company? Then I'm stuck without an answer right?
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It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
SOE is poison to MMORPGS-
Um, actually no. That's completely untrue. Either you are purposely totally ignoring the TENS of THOUSANDS of verbatum complaints against SOE in this issue, or you are actually just not knowledgable in the subject (SOE specificly, not gaming). That's not intended as an insult, I simply believe you are making an off the cuff remark that is normally valid, except that SOE has gone waaaay beyond the norm.
No MMO company has completely re-written a game from the very basic core of it's fabric and tried to shove it down it's consumers throats. a la SWG. They patch. They expand. They don't completely rewrite / redo.
I buy a car from Ford (SWG), drive it home, I'm happy. I know I'll have to do maintenance (patches), but hey, I understand, this is the nature of things.
But I don't expect to wake up in the morning to look in my garage and find out the Ford makers snuck in the middle of the night and rebuilt my car into a Datsun (SWG: NGE).
When you purchased the game, it came with a very clear notice that online gaming experience may change.
The problem is not with SOE or Smedley, it's with the SWG team. Everybody clamors about how much they hate SOE and SOE is so evil, blah blah, but they're only saying this in reference to SWG, but not the other games that SOE have up and running. Same goes for Smedley, he has an obligation to gather good PR. I doubt he'd still have a job if he came out and said "We made a mistake".
Next time you want to bash a company for one of their products, keep in mind that a company is comprised of MANY people and MANY products and services. Bashing SOE is like bashing Squaresoft because they made one bad RPG, or bashing Apple for making one bad product, etc...
Actually a more accurate example would be Ford and Dodge come and remake your car to a Mopar car, but that's not really the point. The point is, why is that JUST SOE? Why doesn't anyone include LucasArts in there with SWG?
SOE is evil. I played SWG until I just couldn't stand it anymore. I felt like they were trying to force feed me a pile of crap, changing the game apparently on a whim with no regards to game balance or what the players want. In "fixing" one thing, they'd break five others, then deny that the five others were broken.
Oh, and that's not even mentioning their horrible customer service and history of lies and shady business practices.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Um, actually no. That's completely untrue. Either you are purposely totally ignoring the TENS of THOUSANDS of verbatum complaints against SOE in this issue, or you are actually just not knowledgable in the subject (SOE specificly, not gaming). That's not intended as an insult, I simply believe you are making an off the cuff remark that is normally valid, except that SOE has gone waaaay beyond the norm.
No MMO company has completely re-written a game from the very basic core of it's fabric and tried to shove it down it's consumers throats. a la SWG. They patch. They expand. They don't completely rewrite / redo.
I buy a car from Ford (SWG), drive it home, I'm happy. I know I'll have to do maintenance (patches), but hey, I understand, this is the nature of things.
But I don't expect to wake up in the morning to look in my garage and find out the Ford makers snuck in the middle of the night and rebuilt my car into a Datsun (SWG: NGE).
I would agree if I was just talking about just SWG. But I was talking about all of SOE. The poster I was getting onto has posted nothing but negative stuff about SOE on everything they do. And it just gets old.
I play EQ2 and I have a lot of fun playing it. I've had absolutely no problems with SOE. I've used their online live support and their phone support and got good service on both and my problem solved. I think that people forget that although they might still be under the SOE umbrella, each game has it's own development team and workers. It wouldn't seem fair to throw my anger towards the other innocent development teams.
Anyways, SWG redo was a risk. They took it with one game. If it messes up I don't think they're going to be dumb enough to make it on the other games they have. So that would seem to me more reason to play the other SOE games.
I DO know that EQ2 is fun, and EQ1 is fun. And every single EQ2 update they've made has made the game more fun. So, my point was that SOE bashing just seems a little bit of a broad criticism. I don't get mad at EA Games because some people playing Madden get dissed and choose to not buy Battle for Middle Earth. Seems like the same logic should be applied here. They're different dev teams.
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</OBAMA>
Gee porgie, it's like my post never got read...
"Game experience may change during online play" refers to the ESRB notice and has nothing to do with the game other than that. People use that all the time not realising what it refers to.
While you can "blame" whoever you like for the state of a game, the buck stops with the head guy. That's who is responsible for the decisions made by anyone under him and who sets the sort of atmosphere which decides whether or not a company acts in the manner it does. If a company, any company, treats it's customers in a despicable manner, it's the top dog who condones it. How could it be any other way? If he doesn't know what's going on down the line, he's a bad leader and should be sacked anyway.
this is an excellent post and good analogy.
/bump
past players and current players of SWG, you got pwn3d by SOE!!111!
So why is that "Top Dog" John Smeadly? Why isn't it Julio Torres? You do know he's the producer of SWG right? You do know that a producer is in charge of the decisions for that game, and that's what we seem to be talking about. We're not talking about a company, we're talking about the way a company handled ONE of their games. And there were TWO companies making that game, so why is only one to blame?
Get used to in Ranma. Anything that proves that people are just mindlessly bashing and have no idea what they're talking about just gets ignored. It's a lot easier than actually taking the time to reevaluate their thinking.
What will really start to get to you is after hundreds of posts proving how wrong they are, on your hundred and first post when you say they're wrong, the accuse you of having no facts...all the facts they chose not to read.
Wrong or right, I despise Smedley and all scum sucking molluscs involved with making decisions concerning SWG.
I play EVE-online now, and have found that CCP doesn't enjoy crapping on thier customers. In 10 months of playing EVE I've had not one single complaint or gripe against CCP on any matter. In the one year I spent playing SWG (nearly two for my girlfriend), I was plagued with bugs and problems. Crap, sorry non-existant customer service and when I complained on the forums I got banned.
I've played a few MMORPGs, and to be honest SOE is evil. To those who say "What about Lucas Arts?", well if I saw George Lucas on the street today I'd spit in his face and maybe kick him in the happy sacks. Partly for SWG but mostly for doing a hatchet job on those prequals, and then butchering (remastering) the original episodes. I mean one camp robot was enough but ep 1-3 we've got like armies of robots that sound like Julian Clary, Lucas is evil and a twisted pervert.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I for one have enjoyed most of the changes they have made to EQ2. The combat changes and the removal of the archtypes. I am also glad they are making tradeskills a lot less tedious with the removal of all the sub-combines.
EQ2 has a development team that actually produces. While not everyone might not like what they produce for one reason or another they do it MUCH faster than say... blizzard. The one thing I hate about WoW is that is so damn static and when a bug does pop up it's months before it's fixed.
EQ2 has also had 1 expansion and 2 adventure packs and has another expansion coming out end of Feb.... WoW has... announced some expansion thats off in the distant future that we may or may not see before we all get to bored.
Imagine how long its going to take Blizzard to revamp the pvp rank system like they are saying they are. EQ2 did the combat system revamp in what, 2-3 months? Over all... I think EQ2 is a better game unfortunately all my drone friends play WoW =(
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Which post? Sorry, see I'm all confused. Once these threads get big and all it's utter chaos to me. I just responded to that admriker444 guy first and RATFather second.
Actually, I think my response to admriker444 came before your post. Check page 3
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</OBAMA>
Get used to in Ranma. Anything that proves that people are just mindlessly bashing and have no idea what they're talking about just gets ignored. It's a lot easier than actually taking the time to reevaluate their thinking.
What will really start to get to you is after hundreds of posts proving how wrong they are, on your hundred and first post when you say they're wrong, the accuse you of having no facts...all the facts they chose not to read.
Uhhhmmmm... What are you talking about. I didn't bash anything. Maybe you didn't read all the posts.
And that's so uncool to make personal attacks. I don't think anyone appreciates being called mindless. But I guess if you feel comfortable calling someone names then that's your personality, not mine.
So just to clear this up; I was defending SOE not bashing. Check page 3 for my first comment.
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</OBAMA>
I don't why the "Top Dog" is Smedley. I'm just saying whoever it is, that's who you should hold accountable. If there are two Top Dogs, send your letters of complaint to both of them. If you're not sure who to send them to, call 'em up and ask. John Smedley does seem to be in charge and he's the one who we see wibbling bollocks on the boards sounding like he's the Top Dog, so he seems a good target for blame. I'm sure somewhere in the wilds of India or China they have a complaint department where someone will happily doze off while pretending to listen to your problems.
John Smedley is in charge of SOE. He's in charge of ALL SOE games and he works for SOE (obviously). Jullio Torres (who is also doing inteviews and PR work) is the producer for SWG, I can show you what the responibilites of a producer is if you are unsure, but generally the producer is the boss of the game. He sets deadlines, budgets, provides direction, etc. Dispite what most forum posters say, Jullio Torres works for LucasArts. So you see the difference in who you hate, is very important.
If you think John Smeadly micromanages EVERY project SOE does, and you blame him for everything in SWG, you hate SOE. If you realize that the person who provides the direction of the game works for LucasArts, then you hate LucasArts.