About Darkfall

Fenril · February 2006

What to say about Darkfall...leaving the questions of how good it actually is, and when will it be finally released if ever out...

1) Open pvp, so few players that label themselves hardcore have played in a truly open pvp system, in my opinion you had AC: DT (which i never tried myself) and UO pre-(insert your opinion of when UO was truly ruined here).
UO has some similarities with Darkfall and the developers have said it was an influence on their design as well as AC.

Then there was L2 which was nothing but a major grind fest, it did have the drama of heavy exp losses and expensive item loss upon death in certain circunstances, but the fact was these losses sucked so much few approached it as a true open pvp game.

Then there was SB, which i only played during the euro beta, and that has failed for many reasons, the ones i heard about mostly was poor implemention and a lousy bugged engine.

But SB attracted a huge amount of fans over the long development period (myself included), due to its concept, FFA pvp, attack anyone anywhere, no restrictions, resources to fight over for, cities to build that can be conquered by other players, player driven politics and kingdoms.

Darkfall in my opinion seeks to improve and expand on this concept by offering a fully skill based system, which is the best for pvp because the possible gaps in power between players arent as big as a level based system, and it also allows alot more freedom and flexibility in creating the character you want from a vast amount of options ( devs have claimed to be aiming for 500 skills and 500 spells available in the game).

There is sieging, there is siege weaponry, there is naval combat, there is resource control and relics to give bonuses to your cities.
You will fight for pride, politics, hate, convenience, survival, lore.
Everything revolves around pvp in Darkfall its what it was designed for.

Resources are crucial, there is full loot upon death, every item from the most useless to most powerful in the gameworld will be craftable by players.

Items lose their importance when compared to classic grind fest level based games, if anyone played UO you will know the range of power and benefits to expect from your items, they will be important, but they wont define your character, your choice of skills will, your knowledge in the use of your skills and spells, your ability in playing your character, moving with it, thinking on the fly, reacting with it.

Darkfall will borrow from FPS's in its combat system you will aim the vast majority of your attacks, no auto targetting or calling targets BS, no paper/rock/scissors balance with set classes, no point and click movement, projectiles and spells will be dodgeable, you aim your melee weapon for a hit or miss.

Twitch will matter, strategy will matter , coordination will matter. Not items or how many levels of bashing passive AI opponents by repeating the same routine ad nauseum. You want to develop a skill, use that skill, your skill develops in combat with other players the same way it develops by fighting a giant rat or a dragon.

But for me the icing on the cake above the gameplay that we expect is the environment, an open pvp world with racial factions, powerhungry player clans, filled with trashtalk, bragging,begging, betrayal, threats, spionage, fear, love, hate. Emotion damnit, actual involvement with the game, you always have alot to lose ( resources, reputation, your home, your city, your items, your time, your freedom in the gameworld) and also so much to gain or to brutally claim for yourslef, if you are good enough, if your clanmates are good enough, if you know how to manipulate your enemies as well as defeat them in combat.

All the factors together and all the potential and opportunities for a deep involving experience at a competitive level is the sum of the concept of Darkfall, and is what keeps the community rehashing the same topics over and over again, and doing suggestions, planning grand strategies, asking for updates.

Its what many gamers have been looking for: a deep, challenging playerskill based pvp in a mmorpg context. Player versus player with that special mmorpg sense of persistance and meaning.

Will it ever be released? I honestly dont know. Will it suck? I cant say.

Do i want to play a game with these features and concepts? Hell yes.
Ive been waiting for it since UO, and i know im not alone.

comppi · February 2006

Yeah i've been waiting for darkfall for quite some time too. And sometimes I honestly thought that the game would be debunked from the lack of updates on the site etc. But from what I see now, I think that the game will make it to the retail, since closed beta is starting soon. And im more than excited to play in it, since im 100% that i have an acc for it.
I really have high hopes for this one, and I honestly dont want to be disappointed by this game, like I was with Dark and light Online.

And hello to everyone!
I hope I will enjoy my stay on this forum.

Yours, comppi

dark-merlin · February 2006

there are alot of new updates coming out really fast, heres one today:

http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/686/686562p1.html

" has advanced it to the stage where preparations are currently being made to begin beta." rofl we will see soon.

Darkfall is a PVPers (and not only that) wet dream, its freedom in an mmo, something that has been lacking for a long time.

Dark-Merlin

Gameloading · February 2006

Originally posted by Fenril

Then there was L2 which was nothing but a major grind fest, it did have the drama of heavy exp losses and expensive item loss upon death in certain circunstances, but the fact was these losses sucked so much few approached it as a true open pvp game.

apologies for hijacking the topic here, but may I ask why these losses "sucked"?

where they to light? because losing a part of your equipment is more worth then your every possesion in UO. it probably took weeks to get the item because of the extreme harsh economy. or did you mean its too hardcore?

Fenril · February 2006

I could only stand to play L2 on a 40x server, definitly too harcore for me.

I did play enough to realize the combat was nothing to sing about, the 1v1 was pathetic.

nomadian · February 2006

sounds really good. Along with Vanguard as two of the ones I am most optimistic about.

APEist · February 2006

Darkfall, if things go well, is definately going to be my home game. Every design concept and all the mechanics work when you think about it, and it is not gonna be a huge gankfest... except launch lol. People realize theyre actions will matter, and the guy they grief by killing him while hes fighting a monster will come back and do the same, and take their equipment back. Theyll realize they cant act like total asses or they will make lots of enemies and their game will be turned to hell.

I bet the economy is going to be great in this game too, and i really hope the crafting is good, that would be awesome. I love how items arent are about on par with old-school UO, not like the eq clones lol, makes the game more accesible to the casual gamer and makes skill a larger factor. yay!

PvP with a purpose... a real purpose, guhhhh i cant wait.

btw have you all read some of the comments on the hype board for the game? lol there are some stupid people in this world. "eq clone" "pvp system similar to WoW pvp servers" "nothing unique" WHOAAAA... lol, whats up with these people, cant they say something that isnt wrong?

ghostinfinit · February 2006

Originally posted by APEist

btw have you all read some of the comments on the hype board for the game? lol there are some stupid people in this world. "eq clone" "pvp system similar to WoW pvp servers" "nothing unique" WHOAAAA... lol, whats up with these people, cant they say something that isnt wrong?

Some people are never happy dude. It probably stems back to the disappointment they had when they discovered that the robot that came with the old NES wasn't nearly as good as they saw on tv. lol

nthnaoun · February 2006

Originally posted by Fenril

What to say about Darkfall...leaving the questions of how good it actually is, and when will it be finally released if ever out...

1) Open pvp, so few players that label themselves hardcore have played in a truly open pvp system, in my opinion you had AC: DT (which i never tried myself) and UO pre-(insert your opinion of when UO was truly ruined here).
UO has some similarities with Darkfall and the developers have said it was an influence on their design as well as AC.
Then there was L2 which was nothing but a major grind fest, it did have the drama of heavy exp losses and expensive item loss upon death in certain circunstances, but the fact was these losses sucked so much few approached it as a true open pvp game.
Then there was SB, which i only played during the euro beta, and that has failed for many reasons, the ones i heard about mostly was poor implemention and a lousy bugged engine.
But SB attracted a huge amount of fans over the long development period (myself included), due to its concept, FFA pvp, attack anyone anywhere, no restrictions, resources to fight over for, cities to build that can be conquered by other players, player driven politics and kingdoms.
Darkfall in my opinion seeks to improve and expand on this concept by offering a fully skill based system, which is the best for pvp because the possible gaps in power between players arent as big as a level based system, and it also allows alot more freedom and flexibility in creating the character you want from a vast amount of options ( devs have claimed to be aiming for 500 skills and 500 spells available in the game).
There is sieging, there is siege weaponry, there is naval combat, there is resource control and relics to give bonuses to your cities.
You will fight for pride, politics, hate, convenience, survival, lore.
Everything revolves around pvp in Darkfall its what it was designed for.
Resources are crucial, there is full loot upon death, every item from the most useless to most powerful in the gameworld will be craftable by players.
Items lose their importance when compared to classic grind fest level based games, if anyone played UO you will know the range of power and benefits to expect from your items, they will be important, but they wont define your character, your choice of skills will, your knowledge in the use of your skills and spells, your ability in playing your character, moving with it, thinking on the fly, reacting with it.
Darkfall will borrow from FPS's in its combat system you will aim the vast majority of your attacks, no auto targetting or calling targets BS, no paper/rock/scissors balance with set classes, no point and click movement, projectiles and spells will be dodgeable, you aim your melee weapon for a hit or miss.
Twitch will matter, strategy will matter , coordination will matter. Not items or how many levels of bashing passive AI opponents by repeating the same routine ad nauseum. You want to develop a skill, use that skill, your skill develops in combat with other players the same way it develops by fighting a giant rat or a dragon.
But for me the icing on the cake above the gameplay that we expect is the environment, an open pvp world with racial factions, powerhungry player clans, filled with trashtalk, bragging,begging, betrayal, threats, spionage, fear, love, hate. Emotion damnit, actual involvement with the game, you always have alot to lose ( resources, reputation, your home, your city, your items, your time, your freedom in the gameworld) and also so much to gain or to brutally claim for yourslef, if you are good enough, if your clanmates are good enough, if you know how to manipulate your enemies as well as defeat them in combat.
All the factors together and all the potential and opportunities for a deep involving experience at a competitive level is the sum of the concept of Darkfall, and is what keeps the community rehashing the same topics over and over again, and doing suggestions, planning grand strategies, asking for updates.
Its what many gamers have been looking for: a deep, challenging playerskill based pvp in a mmorpg context. Player versus player with that special mmorpg sense of persistance and meaning.
Will it ever be released? I honestly dont know. Will it suck? I cant say.
Do i want to play a game with these features and concepts? Hell yes.
Ive been waiting for it since UO, and i know im not alone.

Why not try The Chronicle then. It has everything you described as wanting and will be out sooner than Darkfall. Unless ofcourse permadeath scares you away. If it does scare you, then you could play as a regular character vrs a main and you will never perma die.

MMOCrazy · February 2006

Darkfall will hopefully be amazing! I like Lineage 2 even though I am very slow at leveling. It is because of their PvP. Just like all other FFA Open PvP, it is always a challenge to walk outside of a town, not like other MMO's where you can walk out peacefully out of a town knowing you will be all safe and you know EXACTLY what to do and where to go everytime. But in PvP, you see a rival guild/alliance, you have to think quickly, what are you going to do? Call for backup? Try to see if you can fight them? Etc.

Hope Darkfall gives me the challenge when playing that I want.

Also, one question about The Chronicle, is it FFA Open PvP?

Xife · February 2006

Originally posted by APEist

btw have you all read some of the comments on the hype board for the game? lol there are some stupid people in this world. "eq clone" "pvp system similar to WoW pvp servers" "nothing unique" WHOAAAA... lol, whats up with these people, cant they say something that isnt wrong?

Lol, i just laugh whenever I read posts like that... Its so far from the truth its funny... I as well will make darkfall my home, and love hardcore pvp

APEist · February 2006

Originally posted by nthnaoun

Why not try The Chronicle then. It has everything you described as wanting and will be out sooner than Darkfall. Unless ofcourse permadeath scares you away. If it does scare you, then you could play as a regular character vrs a main and you will never perma die.

So just cuz they have a beta date, that means its coming out soon? Have you read their site, so many things are "planned to be implemented," this is will be a very very incomplete and long beta if they do indeed have a beta.

There will be WoW-esque (yes they make a direct referense to it being like WoW instancing and unlike Guild wars instancing), a big no-no amongst most darkfall fans.

This may sound wierd, but the graphics are too good. i cannot see that engine supporting large scale pvp without lag, even with all the settings set to rock bottom. in a twitch/skill based combat system lag literally kills. graphics should be one of the last things on their list.

anyways, i may be an idiot, but i did a fair bit of reading into the chronicle at the mmocenter site. are there better places for information which may influence my opinion? if so, could you provide them?

APEist · February 2006

oh and i forgot to add, no /tells. granted there are chat channels for regular, but no further details on that. for mains there is no form of long distance communication.

"good", you say? yea, good for the people who will be using VoIP and other chat systems... its giving a disadvantage to the players who play the game the way its meant to be played, and a way unfair advantage to the (vast vast majority) people who are gonna be using those systems.

i dunno i just dont have very much faith in the devs for the chronicle.

Bissrok · February 2006

Originally posted by MMOCrazy
...Also, one question about The Chronicle, is it FFA Open PvP?

Open PvP and full looting (from what I hear). 'Main' (or hero) characters can go to higher levels and level up faster, but they have perma-death. And only other main characters can kill you, regular characters just knock you out and steal your shit. They said you can't tell regulars from mains, so it won't be like SWG where they'd take 5 jedi and 1 bounty hunter to hunt you down. Haven't read much about Darkfall, but they sound similar. If The Chronicle doesn't work out I'll go to Darkfall. Sounds like a lot of SWG vets are headed over there.

nthnaoun · February 2006

Originally posted by APEist

oh and i forgot to add, no /tells. granted there are chat channels for regular, but no further details on that. for mains there is no form of long distance communication.
"good", you say? yea, good for the people who will be using VoIP and other chat systems... its giving a disadvantage to the players who play the game the way its meant to be played, and a way unfair advantage to the (vast vast majority) people who are gonna be using those systems.
i dunno i just dont have very much faith in the devs for the chronicle.

To get more info then what mmocenter provides you would have to pre-order to get access to the beta site and forums. I wouldn't worry about that though unless you are serious about playing TC. I see this game as being more of a sandbox game kind of like SWG, but more RP and PvP friendly. Voice communication will be used of course by many, but so will it on Darkfall. In fact most guilds involved with PvP are requiring you to have voice chat. In a game like Darkfall and TC you need a guild, so you do the math. You can look at the voice thing as a RP tool. No more immature chat forced onto your chat box. No more unrealistic conversations traveling across the world. TC is designed to be a little more realistic then your avg. game. Like another poster said. TC and Darkfall are pretty similar with TC boasting a more hardcore PvP atmosphere with the permadeath for "main" characters.

I like what I see on Darkfall too. Both are appealing to me. I will play which ever comes first. Judging from the beta site TC will be out in a completed form sooner than Darkfall is announcing their release. TC is just being closed mouth about their progress and estimated release dates, because so many people got all bent out of shape when they had to delay because of the new engine. So I guess you can blame the whiners and impatient gamers for TC being so closed mouth now to the general public.

Anyways, if the FAQ and the rest of the threads on mmocenter don't convince you to play this game, then I would say just wait for Darkfall to release. Either way best of luck to you.

Mhorham · February 2006

Darkfall is the only thing I see around that offers a complete game. I guess it depends on how you want to spend your quarter but standing in a group camping some mob spawn, hitting three buttons in a sequence each time a spawn pops is just not fun for me. You get the total package in games like DF. I cut my mmo teeth on (AC)Darktide and moved on to games like DOAC, Horizons, Shadowbane, WoW. I really think Darkfall is going to provide me with the best parts from all those games and be the game for a good couple of years to come.

Gameloading · February 2006

Originally posted by APEist

Originally posted by nthnaoun
Why not try The Chronicle then. It has everything you described as wanting and will be out sooner than Darkfall. Unless ofcourse permadeath scares you away. If it does scare you, then you could play as a regular character vrs a main and you will never perma die.
So just cuz they have a beta date, that means its coming out soon? Have you read their site, so many things are "planned to be implemented," this is will be a very very incomplete and long beta if they do indeed have a beta.
There will be WoW-esque (yes they make a direct referense to it being like WoW instancing and unlike Guild wars instancing), a big no-no amongst most darkfall fans.
This may sound wierd, but the graphics are too good. i cannot see that engine supporting large scale pvp without lag, even with all the settings set to rock bottom. in a twitch/skill based combat system lag literally kills. graphics should be one of the last things on their list.
anyways, i may be an idiot, but i did a fair bit of reading into the chronicle at the mmocenter site. are there better places for information which may influence my opinion? if so, could you provide them?

Graphics don't really have to be lag. take example of Lineage 2 and RF Online. both feature hundreds of players at the same time in the same place fighting each other,and there is hardly any lag at all. and thats not because I have an ubar comp (its rather old)

Fenril · February 2006

I believe the chronicle does not compare to darkfall in any features, plus they are claiming to develop the game to allow full 3d model recognition with no lag, which i highly doubt.

I dont like the graphic style, but thats a minor issue.

Also to anyone who is not an idiot, OPTIONAL perma death (characters that choose this will be more powerful by default) with an open pvp system is ridiculous. The game balance is ruined at the start, and quite franly the large scale pvp is already hurt.

If it were perma death for everyone it might be a more hardcore alternative, but frankly you wouldnt

see much warfare or experience the same brutal environment and politics that you might in Darkfall.

Thats the issue with perma death in pvp mmogs, you have alot to lose on a personal level and that is challenging, but that fact alone limits pvp because you only fight when you are sure you will win, and in most circunstances most people would rather not fight at all.

Also i dont think L2 wasnt that hardcore, how many reds did you actually see in L2 that werent temporary groups on lowbie runs?

Also i heard it had secheduled sieges.

Senden · February 2006

OP how much did the Darkfall devs pay you ? Hehe only jk, i agree though that Darkfall has huge amounts of potential and if they can get it released this year, we will have a mighty good game on our hands!

If they end up releasing it next year though, it will definately be overshadowed by W.A.R but we can still hope for a good release.

Still, i see this game going like the way RFO is going, huge potential and will create a LOT of buzz, but ultimately, the game will be disapointing. Darkfall is a very ambitious idea and to get everything balanced, will take some extremely talented teams and i really can't see it ever living up to the hype and standards that the fans are setting.

Scottc · February 2006

Originally posted by Fenril

I believe the chronicle does not compare to darkfall in any features, plus they are claiming to develop the game to allow full 3d model recognition with no lag, which i highly doubt.
I dont like the graphic style, but thats a minor issue.
Also to anyone who is not an idiot, OPTIONAL perma death (characters that choose this will be more powerful by default) with an open pvp system is ridiculous. The game balance is ruined at the start, and quite franly the large scale pvp is already hurt.
If it were perma death for everyone it might be a more hardcore alternative, but frankly you wouldnt
see much warfare or experience the same brutal environment and politics that you might in Darkfall.
Thats the issue with perma death in pvp mmogs, you have alot to lose on a personal level and that is challenging, but that fact alone limits pvp because you only fight when you are sure you will win, and in most circunstances most people would rather not fight at all.
Also i dont think L2 wasnt that hardcore, how many reds did you actually see in L2 that werent temporary groups on lowbie runs?
Also i heard it had secheduled sieges.

wtf is 3d model recognition? A feature of AI?

nthnaoun · February 2006

Originally posted by Fenril

I believe the chronicle does not compare to darkfall in any features, plus they are claiming to develop the game to allow full 3d model recognition with no lag, which i highly doubt.
I dont like the graphic style, but thats a minor issue.

Also to anyone who is not an idiot, OPTIONAL perma death (characters that choose this will be more powerful by default) with an open pvp system is ridiculous. The game balance is ruined at the start, and quite franly the large scale pvp is already hurt.
If it were perma death for everyone it might be a more hardcore alternative, but frankly you wouldnt
see much warfare or experience the same brutal environment and politics that you might in Darkfall.
Thats the issue with perma death in pvp mmogs, you have alot to lose on a personal level and that is challenging, but that fact alone limits pvp because you only fight when you are sure you will win, and in most circunstances most people would rather not fight at all.
Also i dont think L2 wasnt that hardcore, how many reds did you actually see in L2 that werent temporary groups on lowbie runs?
Also i heard it had secheduled sieges.

What features does Darkfall have that TC doesn't? If you read the forums you will see that people are rolling mains mostly and a regular for when they don't want to worry about dying. Heros are always stronger in theory than your regular soldiers, which the Main is supposed to represent. So the game is balanced. Also, this game isn't meant to be all about PvP either. TC's social aspect is just as great as their PvP aspect. So people out of fear of th econsequenses won't be running around killing everyone within sight. Worrying about dying is exactly the point in TC. It fits roleplayers better, because people will actually think about what they do before they do it. TC aims at being more realistic for a fantasy world. How realistic is it for people to be ganked 24/7 or have to fight all the time? In TC you will have the option to settle things diplomaticly.

JimLad · February 2006

UO meets Planetside, that's usually my analogy.

Good to see the game is under the publics eye again. Now that RFO has been ripped from it's number 1 spot as most anticipated people will start to take notice.
As for The Chronicle, it is like Darkfall in many respects. It's my second most anticipated, however there doesn't seem to be much info about it atm. If it's released after DF then it may very well suffer some player losses. They're both very good sounding PvP games, it's just unfortunate they share the same theme. From everything I've heard they'll both be worth a look, but Darkfall sounds just that bit better imo.
However if I end up playing DF and not the Chronicle, I'd still be interested in MMOcenters next games. :P

Edit: To previous poster -
You just answered your own question there bud. Darkfall is more focused on PvP, TC is more focused on RP. That's what will set people apart from each. TC doesn't compare to DFs PvP features, DF doesn't compare to TCs RP features.

nthnaoun · February 2006

Originally posted by JimLad

UO meets Planetside, that's usually my analogy.
Good to see the game is under the publics eye again. Now that RFO has been ripped from it's number 1 spot as most anticipated people will start to take notice.
As for The Chronicle, it is like Darkfall in many respects. It's my second most anticipated, however there doesn't seem to be much info about it atm. If it's released after DF then it may very well suffer some player losses. They're both very good sounding PvP games, it's just unfortunate they share the same theme. From everything I've heard they'll both be worth a look, but Darkfall sounds just that bit better imo.
However if I end up playing DF and not the Chronicle, I'd still be interested in MMOcenters next games. :P
Edit: To previous poster -
You just answered your own question there bud. Darkfall is more focused on PvP, TC is more focused on RP. That's what will set people apart from each. TC doesn't compare to DFs PvP features, DF doesn't compare to TCs RP features.

That's not a feature, but an opinion from observation. There are some PvPers that will shun us RPers in TC just like in any other game and would tell you that TC is more hardcore pvp vrs Darkfall.

dark-merlin · February 2006

we will see what Chronicle will bring to the table-i have read through the dev quotes etc, didnt see mention of naval warfare and a couple of things that DF will bring to the table (i could be wrong about naval warfare in TC)

another very important thing-it takes a loong time to make a game with so many features and implement them correctly (darkfall took 5 years+ so far and still no open beta thats why i would think they took their time and implement everything the right way). The Chronicle seems put together alot faster and with the company working on multiple games at a time says to me that they are not as dedicated to making a revolutionary game like DF is-could be wrong about that too only time will tell.

However if DF does not live to its hype, the Chronicle will get most of the fanbase, it all boils down to which is the better game, and competition brings out the best for us gamers.

Dark-Merlin

nthnaoun · February 2006

Originally posted by dark-merlin

we will see what Chronicle will bring to the table-i have read through the dev quotes etc, didnt see mention of naval warfare and a couple of things that DF will bring to the table (i could be wrong about naval warfare in TC)
another very important thing-it takes a loong time to make a game with so many features and implement them correctly (darkfall took 5 years+ so far and still no open beta thats why i would think they took their time and implement everything the right way). The Chronicle seems put together alot faster and with the company working on multiple games at a time says to me that they are not as dedicated to making a revolutionary game like DF is-could be wrong about that too only time will tell.
However if DF does not live to its hype, the Chronicle will get most of the fanbase, it all boils down to which is the better game, and competition brings out the best for us gamers.
Dark-Merlin

I don't think they are having Naval Warfare at launch, but I don't think Darkfall is either if I remember correctly. What make The Chronicle easier to make sooner than DF is that they are using an AI that can play the game with you. Based on what's happening around you, a NPC might develop a quest. Baddies may be sieging their town, so a town guard develops a quest for you to go kill some of the baddies. With AI like this you don't need to spend years creating content when the game creates it's own content once you have the AI programmed in it. Taking a long time on a game like DF could also mean they are proficient in what they are doing or that they are not as good as RR at making games. Is this true? I don't know and we will find out when both games are released. Either way TC's AI system is what allows the game to take less time in developing than any other game. The AI in this game has never been used before by any other game out there. So I would say it is revolutionary in it's game play. TC will be like living in a real breathing world, close as possible to real life as you can.

dark-merlin · February 2006

Yes DF will have building and naval warfare-non instanced like that POTBS -i dont understand the idiocy with instancing nowadays.

about TC's AI we will see when it comes out, i will try it out obviously, but atm Darkfall is a PVPers number 1, its what we have been waiting for

Dark-Merlin

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