I just saw this on another site and posted it in another forum as well..They should have labled this video the Real 911
Very informative video, full of actually proof and not the media and political propaganda that America has become. Most peope will not watch this though and will probably turn it off within the first 2 mins, for some reason most Americans seem to love Bush and trust the government. But then there are those like me who are not blinded by lies and see things like they really are. And this video shows you how things were and are.....
P.S I Dont think you should have posted it here though, the mods here are Forum Natzi's even though this is a Off topic area..
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by sidebuster But then there are those like me who are not blinded by lies and see things like they really are. You may not be "blinded" by bush or the government, but you sure the hell ARE blinded by a whole other party.
Yeah its called video and actual documented Proof.. When you wanna show me some some time im all ears.
This will be my last post.. since im sure I will be threatned with teh ban stick any minute now.... If any of you got some proof showing the other side of the story.. PM me.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by sidebuster But then there are those like me who are not blinded by lies and see things like they really are. You may not be "blinded" by bush or the government, but you sure the hell ARE blinded by a whole other party.
Yeah its called video and actual documented Proof.. When you wanna show me some some time im all ears.
This will be my last post.. since im sure I will be threatned with teh ban stick any minute now.... If any of you got some proof showing the other side of the story.. PM me.
I'm not going to comment on the video one way or the other since I maintain a neutral stance in this matter. Wrong was done on both sides. In the end flying planes full of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people is a piss poor way of "convincing people to see your beliefs in a new light" regardless who was/is to blame.
I will, however, comment on the quoted section above in green font. "It's called video and documented proof". Yup, that's called MEDIA! Maybe not THE Media, but Media nonetheless. Unless you saw it for yourself it's ALL conjecture and you're taking someone else's word for it. Saying anyone who watches the news is an idiot for believing what they see but believing what you see in this video without having seen it for youself is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
I've seen "documented" proof of giant seas monsters washing up on shores around the world. I've seen "documented" proof of aliens giving some feller named Bubba a "probing" and the autopsy that took place afterwards. I've seen "documented" proof that the moon landing was a lie. I've seen "documented" proof that video games cause people to kill each other. Now...does this make all this true because I have seen "video and documented proof" on each topic? Hardly. When an alien probes me and drops me off at the corpse of Sigmund the SeaMonster for and autopsy on the moon after we're all done chomping down power pills and eating blue ghosts in anger I will be able to say for certain what is true. Anything else is just believing someone else.
Do I think the government had some idea something like 9/11 could happen? Yes. Do i think they actually thought someone would REALLY go through with it? No, and that was their mistake obviously. Do I think any one Administration is to blame for this? Hardly, things like that have been going on for God knows how long. Do I believe that the U.S. would be so dastardly to stage things or stoop to using chemical warfare or torture or other atrocities? Certainly, I would be stupid to think otherwise. Do I think the U.S. did this to itself? I really don't even think I need to answer that one. We already have enough enemies without having to stage stories to create more out of the dark. Do I think ANY of this makes up for the deaths of all those people that had nothing to do with any of it? Hell no, the active portion of that phrase was "had nothing to do with any of it".
I drove by the Pentagon EVERYday on the way to work. Just 8 days before 9/11 happened I moved. I got to see it all first hand. No conspiracy theory is going to make me blame ANYONE other than the perpatrators.
Now, we can all sit around for another 4.5 years pointing fingers at each other trying to figure out who is to blame and what really happened or we can do something to prevent stuff like this from every happening again. Woops, no we can't. "The Patriot Act is unfair" cries the masses! "You can't tap my phone without a warrant! I might be having phonesex with an Transgender Monkey from Venus! God forbid the government who could care less should hear about that!" cry the outraged citizens who in the same breath demand "We need more safety".
8 words sum it all up for the position of the U.S. as it stands. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We the people can work just as hard to keep acts like this from happening. Be they planned by governments or terrorists. But that would mean we all need to remove out heads from our descending colons long enough to acknowledge the other 6.4billion souls on this Earth. And that's not a problem you can hold the U.S. soley to. You'd have to hold the citizens of EVERY country that have had any form of terrorism anywhere in their past to those very same standards. It's a Human Condition. Not a U.S. Condition.
In short, there's more of us ( citizens ) in the world than there are of them ( government folk ). If we just use our eyes, ears, and voting voices the right way NO ONE should be getting away with any of this.
**As an editted note I would like to point out that I did NOT watch the entire film/video as it quickly became the same repetative rhetoric I've heard for years. I live in Las Vegas, a few miles from Area 51. I am fed up with Conspiracy Theorists. Keep in mind, I don't bother watching the entire State of the Union addresses either as I feel they too could be sumed up in 100 words or less and save us all a little time and headache. Be it Democratic or Republican.**
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
I have seen alot of 9/11 videos too but this one was the most informative. Most of the 9/11 conspiracies all reach the same theory (except for the REALLY bad ones). Good find, I enjoyed watching it.
It has a disturbing lack of command of the facts while conveniently ignoring the manifold evidences that prove it's wrong. 9/11 IS the culmination of the success of terrorism as a result of US citizens and politicians turning two blind eyes to real-world events and foolishly believing ourselves isolated and protected. This conspiracy nonsense is not just ignorance, it is abject stupidity in a most dangerous form now also being promulgated by the most vile sort of partisan politics.
i wish it was true, i love stuff like that, i even cheer on hurricanes.
this is aimed at the feeble minded, and 90% of the world or so is the target audience.
Originally posted by jdun1 If you believe them then I got a bridge to sell you on the moon. As long as liberals believe this kind of non-sense we conservative has nothing to fear.
Who says only liberals are believing it?
Does anyone else see the eery resemblance to the theory revolving around the 9/11 attacks, vs the Governments rhetoric of the happenings, and the Reichstag fire of 1933?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Hmm. All I have to say is, if you think that this movie's accusations are any less a form misinformation than "what the government tells us," then I recommend you turn on the Home Shopping Network because at least there nobody gets hurt. Seriously, editing together a series of tapes and select quotes to support this theory is all that is contained in that film and the only time they show the opposite "side's" position is when it plays directly into their conspiracy. Propoganda is what I call nearly everything I hear anymore about 9/11 that doesn't come out of the mouth of someone who was actually there. All you have to do is look at history and see that every major historical event is riddled with conspiracy theories. Pearl Harbor, The Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK's assassination, the moon landing, etc, etc, etc. This one is no different.
However, I believe that the producer / director of the film does get their real point across, and that is that the 9/11 puzzle is far from being solved by either side. The question is, are we asking the right people the right questions? And does it truely matter anymore? Even if terrorists didn't do the 9/11 attacks, there are ones that desperately want to now.
Originally posted by daeandor However, I believe that the producer / director of the film does get their real point across, and that is that the 9/11 puzzle is far from being solved by either side.
I agree, one of the reasons I think this one has more credibility is because the directior doesn't really point any fingers saying "HE DID IT HE DID IT" like so many of the one's I've watched have. The evidence shown would make you believe it's the government, but he never actually says that. He's more just giving a bunch of points about the widely accepted theory that dont add up, not coming up with a new theory all of his own. That's why I like this video, and why it really did make me think.
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This guy has no idea what kind of physics were at work. It's so easy to talk about what should happen in theory (ie. the buildings shouldn't colapse and their should be debris), but that doesn't mean it's actually going to happen that way.
Now I'm on the part about the cellphones being faked. There was a show on Discovery a night or two ago about this. The cellphones did cut out and they weren't at cruising altitude, the plane was on a steady descent.
Anyways a program on UK tv told us why the twin towers fell :
Cause they were made cheaply and it would only take one floor to collapse to bring it all down! The temps inside the building causes the metal frame to collapse and then it set it all off!
i am personally completely non-liberal, and i've always been very scheptical of 9/11 conspiracy theories. however... this video lays down pure evidence and proof that cannot possibly be disputed. you cannot dispute fact, thats a fact. thats an utterly mind blowing peice of documentary, possibly the best i've ever seen on any subject, the guy who made that makes michael moore look like a school kid.
my brother works for the oil industry, and from some of the stories i've heard, its really not even remotely surprising that a country as power hungry as america would go to these lengths to get more money. the majority of the worlds oil does lay in the middle east, and up until 9/11 america didnt have a real, valid excuse to go get it.
Oil has to be the utmost retarded excuse Anti-Bush'ers are using for the war in Iraq.
IF we wanted oil then why attack Iraq? Why not Kuwait and Saudi Arabia where we've been stationed with large bases for 14+ years? And it's not as if Kuwait would have been hard to "take over". Both countries have a hell of a lot more oil the Iraq. I, for one, am glad that W Bush put so many billions into the Hydrogen powered car. In the future we can start converting over and tell everyone and their oil to toss off. You think the Middle East is chaos now what's going to happen when the majority of the world moves away from fossil fuels and into Hydrogen? They're going to lose their #1 source of income. And if you want to go on with a conspiracy about how the Hydrogen powered cars are "vaporware" talk to GM who has 12 Prototypes ON THE ROAD already. And yes...I have seen one here in Las Vegas at the Tech Shows. Not to mention there is an entire city in Sweden or Norway ( I can't recall where presicely off the top of my head and I am not going to be assed to look it up. ) that has switched their entire city powerplants over to Hydrogen power. It's sci-fi come real yet again.
If someone is claiming that Bush started this "war" against terror and the Middle East to gain a reason to "take the oil" then what exactly was that Clinton did with the dumping of all Tomahawk Cruise missles in our store houses to take out two defunct Al Queda/Bin Laden run "terrorist" training centers. Oh yeah, that's right, he had to so SOMETHING to get the media's attention off the fact that he committed purjury. (Note: I didn't say anything about his affair. Show me a president that HASN'T had an affair and I will be impressed. Lie about it while sworn under oath and it's a whole different story.)
Let me guess, the Oklahoma Bombing was staged so the U.S. could legitimise a war against U-Haul and Fertiliser companies, right?
Pure and simple fact is we're back in Iraq because what SHOULD have been finished nearly 16 years ago wasn't. Bush Sr. kowtowed to the U.N. and stuck to the planbook about "staying out of the cities" when we first went over there to liberate Kuwait. Had we done the entire job THEN we wouldn't be there now.
Did we go there under the excuse of searching down weapons of mass destruction, sure. Did we find any? Well, that depends on who you ask. I call taking a man our of power who was using Mustard and Seran Gases against Iranians and even Kurds in his own country. Thus killing 100s of 1000s of people a "weapon of MASS destruction". Hell, even the French, then naysayers of the world, were the ones to find the "grand cannon" he was building to launch chemical shells at Israel the first time we were there.
In the end, believe what conspiracy you want. Don't call ANY of it fact. Especially not something you read/saw/found on the internet. Unless you have held it in your hands or seen it with your own two eyes IT IS NOT FACT! Because you believe what you watch does NOT mean it is fact. Say what you want about the war in the Middle East, but unless you can look me sqaure in the eyes and say, "Hey! I think Saddam was a stand up fellow. He was a WONDERFUL person to leave in power and we shouldn't have gone there and removed him from that position. He was doing a bang up job!" stow it. Less people have died over there now, troopwise and citizenwise, since we've been there than have in the years preceding. If you think that it's horrible because it's U.S. troops dying instead of faceless Arabs then you are a close-minded elitist.
I will concur that I think the "war of terror" is half assed. But I also don't know what to suggest to make it better. Can't lock things down here at home to try to make it more safe without the left-wingers screaming about violations of Constitutional Rights! Can't hunt down EVERY group that supports Islam because...well...they are not involved. Islam and Terrorist are two wholly different things. Even if we find Osama and take him into custody, put him on public trial, imprison him and execute him on television do you REALLY think the terrorist attacks will die down? Not when something as tiny as a "cartoon drawing" can set people off into bombing/burning frenzies.
To sum it up, stop calling this video fact. I will give to you that he presents his case in a MUCH more thorough, less "guy who hides under the bridge and digs through your trash" manner. At least he argues out his "theories" more than most who just use "because I said so" as their crutch. Does that make it true? No. It's still just a theory.
As to non-Americans on this board I only ask one tiny favour. Stop calling America a massive money-grubber. If that were the case we wouldn't be spending more on Foreign Aid than we do on half our own citizens. I can only imagine what our medical system would be like here if we WERE as money grubbing as you imply and we told all those other countries to screw themselves with an ungreased 2x4 and that they have 6 mos to start paying back the loans. Yes, America is Capitalistic. So are MANY other countries in the world. I, personally, don't care for capitalism even though I am a Republican. It's a bit too Corporate Dictated for my taste but it's the best we have. Socialism would be great...IF you could find the ONE completely uncorrupt human being on the face of this Earth that could actually run it. AND if there wouldn't be a large portion of lazy asses that would ride the coat tails of others even further than they do now under Capitalism.
The reason why I say "America is damned if we do, damned if we don't" is because no matter WHAT we do half the world will be pissed off at us. If we provide aid to one country their enemies are going to be up in arms and threatening to bombs our schoolbuses full of children ( See Israel ). If we ignore a problem we're called power and money hungry, pompous asses who think they are too good for the world to step up and help. If we use military force to resolve an issue we're called war mongers even though that may have been the ONLY recourse to free that country ( see France 1940s ).
What I foresee happening is sooner or later the U.S. is going to get a president that is sick and tired of all the slurring and bashing of America regardless of what we do and we're going to go Isolationist. Then all those third world countries out there that need aid and help can rely on the U.N. You'll pardon me as a I shudder in fear at that thought. I wish we WOULD for 2 years act exactly the way everyone acuses us of acting. I wish we would only watch out for ourselves, lock our borders, cut every penny of aid going out of the country off, and ignore global politics.
Quick final topic to touch on: Yes...we ALL know that the Towers were poorly built. That is an undisputable fact because we all got to watch just how easy they came down. If we're going to sit around and blame Bush for that then that's just stupid. They were designed by a Japanese-American Architect and opened in 1973 while Nixon was president. Unless George W. is an omnipresent being I doubt he had anything to do with that. It was yet another fine example of Contractors cutting corners and costs on substandard materials. That and the fact that in 1973 I doubt the designer, Minoru Yamasaki, was sitting and thinking "Hrm...but will this design withstand two fully fueled 747 commercial liners flying into them at full speed." That whole situation is a live and learn issue. Sad that it had to be learned in such a manner.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
Yeah to me the video made some very very strong points about 911... One thing that I do whole heartedly agree with in the video is that that building could not possibly have burnt to the ground in that amount of time, and not in such a controlled space... and how it was possible for a fire to spread 100+ floors in less than an hour and melt the thousands of tonnes of metal is beyond me.
I think some people shouldn't whole heartedly believe the government.... Everyone knows that the standard quality of a polititian is Lieing....
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I watched this movie and in the end I was laughing my ass off. Liberalism at its best! If there anything that that will destroy US in the future it will be liberals. Just like it happened with any great empire before hand, take Rome for example, empire stood strong until society turned to liberalism as driving force behind the empire, we all know what happened then.
Was Pearl Harbor planned by Roosevelt? I dont know maybe, there are a lot of indirect evidence that indicate that his actions were at the very l least wierd. However now look at the possibility at what would have happened if Pearl Harbor never happened, US might not have entered the war and well right now we would be living in German State.
Same thing in here did govermnet plan 9/11? I dont know maybe, but at least that problem that was viewd by 99% of the Americans to be in the land very far away came to appear extreemly real.
My heart goes out to all people who got killed in 9/11 as well as Pearl Harbor but in my eyes their deaths paid for our own blindness and unwillingness to live with and deal with other people on planet Earth rather then living 2 oceans away from everyone and not caring.
malachi 1975 - i couldnt read your entire post as it was longer than the bible. but i read the first points about oil and i totally disagree, your simply wrong.
firstly, saudi arabia is stable, and america happens to have strong financial ties with the saudi's. attacking them would be like attacking your mother, just weird. iraq and iran are perfect targets.. they have some links to terrorism and have unstable governments, meaning attacking them can be more easily argue'd for.
iran is next on the list, its almost embarrasing when you see the yanks being so rediculously blatent about their intentions. i mean, g w comming out with the 'near terrorist attack' that had been thwarted shortly after 9/11. they wouldnt happen to be iranian terrorists would they?! they wouldnt have lived in a nuclear power plant would they?! its sickening.
everyone knows america has a hidden agenda, people that dont realise it are just basically thick. why the hell would the american government be looking to make money from hydrogen power now, when theres no money to be made from it?! ALL the money is in oil, this is a fact. and until the very day that oil on this planet is depleted, it will remain this way.
an example my brother gave me was of oil fields in nigeria, apparently geologists there came accross massive, massive amounts of gas. enough gas infact to power the entire world for 2 entire years. however, at the moment it just wasnt profitable enough to mine, so they burnt it all, every last atom into the atmosphere.
its naive to think that governments and oil companies (oil companies basically run the governments) actually give a crap about anything. they pretent to simply because they have to be seen to, but in reality its the most corrupt business in the history of man.
we had absolutely no reason to attack iraq in the first place, many countries in the middle east including iraq CANNOT operate in a democracy, it just will NEVER work. a dictatorship is the only thing that can control a country of religious extremists, trying to 'liberate' them and give them they're own voice is a very dangerous thing, as we've found out. but what the hell do the americans care, they're there for the money :P
Originally posted by Hohbein malachi 1975 - i couldnt read your entire post as it was longer than the bible. but i read the first points about oil and i totally disagree, your simply wrong. To begin, it's you're not your. I don't own simply wrong. You've already invalidated your ENTIRE post by stating "I couldn't read your entire post as it was longer than the bible". To paraphrase, "I couldn't bother hearing the whole story. I only want to talk about a couple things without getting the whole picture. You blew your standing in the debate right there. firstly, saudi arabia is stable, and america happens to have strong financial ties with the saudi's. attacking them would be like attacking your mother, just weird. iraq and iran are perfect targets.. they have some links to terrorism and have unstable governments, meaning attacking them can be more easily argue'd for. Now, to call Saudi Arabia "Stable" is naive. It's functioning, but far from "Stable". Sure, I will concede to you that Iran and Iraq are ideal targets. If I had to pick between oil being under the control of relatively non-hostile, functional countries or countries that want to blow everyone up who disagrees with them, kills 100s of citizens near daily, or like "testing" nuke threats to see how people would react...call me odd but I think I would rather leave the countries in charge that are "stable" as you put it and take the ruling parties out of the nutjob countries so they don't have a leg to stand on. If oil is SUCH a money producer why would you leave a high-level money maker in the hands of maniacs? That's just common sense. iran is next on the list, its almost embarrasing when you see the yanks being so rediculously blatent about their intentions. i mean, g w comming out with the 'near terrorist attack' that had been thwarted shortly after 9/11. they wouldnt happen to be iranian terrorists would they?! they wouldnt have lived in a nuclear power plant would they?! its sickening. Where on God's Green Earth do you get the "Iranian Terrorist" idea? The U.S. never even stated that the terrorists, who perpatrated 9/11, belonged to any particular single country. We DID say they had Al Queda ties but those ties are borderless. Sure, we said we're going to start removing governments that SUPPORT Al Queda but how else would YOU suggest cutting off the cash flow to terrorists? Putting a Code 5 on their credit cards? As for your referrence to a "nuclear power plant" I haven't the foggiest idea what you are getting on about there. everyone knows america has a hidden agenda, people that dont realise it are just basically thick. why the hell would the american government be looking to make money from hydrogen power now, when theres no money to be made from it?! ALL the money is in oil, this is a fact. and until the very day that oil on this planet is depleted, it will remain this way. Find me a government in the world WITHOUT a hidden agenda and I will find you an alien species. As for money in Hydrogen Power do you actually even know ANYTHING about it at all? Or did you just jump the gun again and read a few words then spout out buzz phrases? No money to be made? Oil Refineries would become Hydrogen Refineries. Gas Stations would become Hydrogen Stations. Hydrogen doesn't just quite fall out of my ass ( that would be methane ). Someone has to refine it, ship it, deliver it, and pump it out. Same money. Only change is that the Oil Companies wouldn't be able to make up stories about "false" shortages anymore just to hike prices. You say the American Government isn't looking to make money from Hydrogen Power but Bush invested 3.2 billion dollars in research for it. GM has prototypes and has said they can have them roadworthy by 2009. What money would there be to make from this? How about being the first to create the proper refining systems and engines for it? Patents anyone? Next you will tell me the Government has no interest making money from the internet. an example my brother gave me was of oil fields in nigeria, apparently geologists there came accross massive, massive amounts of gas. enough gas infact to power the entire world for 2 entire years. however, at the moment it just wasnt profitable enough to mine, so they burnt it all, every last atom into the atmosphere. What type of "gas"? Can your "brother" be a bit more specific? Some gases DO make great power systems...if you don't mind more polution than a coal plant or you don't want ANY ozone layer left. As for it "being able to power the entire world for 2 entire years" I find that hard to believe since there aren't even Fission reactors that could boast something like that. I happen to live in a City that is powered primarily by Hydro-Electrics and Solar Batteriers. What gas is it we would have to use? Sounds like we would have to convert an entire power system over. And there's only "2 years" worth? No, that's not profitable considering the money it would cost to build the facilities and time alone. So they burned every atom of it off into the atmosphere, eh? 2 years worth of gas. That would have had to be one big fireball. By the way, blame the Nigerians. It wasn't the U.S. who owned that gas. its naive to think that governments and oil companies (oil companies basically run the governments) actually give a crap about anything. they pretent to simply because they have to be seen to, but in reality its the most corrupt business in the history of man. Now here I will agree with you. It is a corrupt business. What do you propose, though, anarchy? Yeah that would be really effective. It's just as naive to think that ALL government figures don't care about anything but themselves. As a whole I would say you may be right to an extent, but I am sure Joe Politician is probably thinking about his 3 children a little bit. And keep in mind, it's ONLY a corrupt business because WE, as the people, ALLOW it to be so. Maybe it's time for a little revolution. Who knows. But sitting back, whinging about it, pointing fingers, calling names, and the like just contributes to the fact. If you can't be arsed to read an entire post something tells me you can't be arsed to bother gathering all the facts before making a political decision. we had absolutely no reason to attack iraq in the first place, many countries in the middle east including iraq CANNOT operate in a democracy, it just will NEVER work. a dictatorship is the only thing that can control a country of religious extremists, trying to 'liberate' them and give them they're own voice is a very dangerous thing, as we've found out. but what the hell do the americans care, they're there for the money :P Again, here I have to agree to an extent. Because of the religious strife there I don't know if a peaceful democracy is possible in the middle east. In Western Countries when our party loses and election we gripe, bitch, and moan. There, they tend to blow up every building they can see. I don't think advocating a Dictatorship is a good idea either. There ARE Monorachal Rules that are pretty decent though. But again, finding someone to run that system that is without corruption is like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. Good luck on that one. From what it sounds like, though, you just want to turn a blind eye there rather than try anything and let them keep killing each other en masse. You say we had no reason to attack? I say 600,000 dead Kurds was reason enough. I say use of Seran and Mustard Gases on cictizens was a GREAT reason to remove him from power. However, your sentiment of "What do we care about other than money" is really daft. If we just wanted the oil, gave not a single crap about anything else, and just wanted it all for ourselves without any concern about their people we would have just raided, bombed the snot out of, killed anything the moved, or made the area really quite for about 150 years ( if you get my drift ) rather than sitting there day in, day out with our young men being killed as we TRY to help them establish a better way of life. You're arguement defeats itself. In one breath you think we're stupid for trying to bring them democracy and in the next you say we're only there for money. Make up your mind. I had and have family over there. I hear weekly about the people clinging to American Troops in tears because they can't stand living they way they have anymore. We're spending more money on the citizens of Iraq than we are on our own Veterans here in the States. Doesn't sound like we care about money QUITE as much as you would have anyone believe.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
There was a lot there that was kind of questionable, i'd have to see the documents or at least photos myself to believe something like Bin Laden being in our custody days before the attacks, i'm sure he wouldn't really be afraid to mention it if he had been.
I'm mostly concerned with things that should be impossible, like the two towers collapsing from those impacts at the upper levels. Even if somehow an excess of jet fuel had leaked all the way to the basement of the building, in the midst of what was supposed to be a raging inferno, it couldn't have melted the supports and definently not in a way that would cause the buildings to collapse so neatly. Then the minor damage at the Pentagon in retrospect, there's no way a 757 hit anywhere near there, unless there's a magical titanium reinforced lawn there that can withstand heat even jet engines can't. Phone calls at 32000 feet, Flight 93's complete dissapearance. Black Boxes apparently disintegrating while bodies and paper documents remain intact.
It was also strange that those flights had been off course for so long and had even gone through restricted airspace without getting shot down. Any pilot would be well aware way beforehand what would happen if they did go flying around the Pentagon, and the hi-jackers, alive or dead, were supposed to be trained and licensed. Why would they go through with the plan knowing that by all means it would fail before they got anywhere near the WTC/Pentagon? Was way too convenient that our forces were unavailable for just that day. How would anyone but our own government be able to get that kind of information? If Al Qaeda had really infiltrated us so far I would think there would have been a lot more happening these past 4 years.
Those are things you really can't lie about, the current explanations are refuted by the evidence.
I am as proud to call myself a liberal as Hannity is to call himself a conservative. I think I was more intelligent than Bush when I was still in High School. I think Cheney is a Dick and the Rice would do anything at all to rise through the ranks.
I have heard some of this before but a lot of questions were never answered. This video gave answers to all those questions but I am not going to consider all these answers to be the absolute truth. All I know is that people will do anything for money.
I also believe that if everything were known about 9/11 a lot of very important people would be in jail for the rest of their lives.
Imagine if the Flight 93 part was true. All those people taken into an abandoned building and disposed of. The video says something about voice cloning or what not. If I believed completely about the flight 93 part I would lean more toward the flight attendant being told it was all part of the drill.
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I just saw this on another site and posted it in another forum as well..They should have labled this video the Real 911
Very informative video, full of actually proof and not the media and political propaganda that America has become. Most peope will not watch this though and will probably turn it off within the first 2 mins, for some reason most Americans seem to love Bush and trust the government. But then there are those like me who are not blinded by lies and see things like they really are. And this video shows you how things were and are.....
P.S I Dont think you should have posted it here though, the mods here are Forum Natzi's even though this is a Off topic area..
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
But then there are those like me who are not blinded by lies and see things like they really are.
You may not be "blinded" by bush or the government, but you sure the hell ARE blinded by a whole other party.
Yeah its called video and actual documented Proof.. When you wanna show me some some time im all ears.
This will be my last post.. since im sure I will be threatned with teh ban stick any minute now.... If any of you got some proof showing the other side of the story.. PM me.
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I've seen a lot of conspiracy videos on 9-11, and this was by FAR the most convincing.
Wow, just......wow.....
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
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Yeah its called video and actual documented Proof.. When you wanna show me some some time im all ears.
This will be my last post.. since im sure I will be threatned with teh ban stick any minute now.... If any of you got some proof showing the other side of the story.. PM me.
I'm not going to comment on the video one way or the other since I maintain a neutral stance in this matter. Wrong was done on both sides. In the end flying planes full of innocent people into buildings full of innocent people is a piss poor way of "convincing people to see your beliefs in a new light" regardless who was/is to blame.
I will, however, comment on the quoted section above in green font. "It's called video and documented proof". Yup, that's called MEDIA! Maybe not THE Media, but Media nonetheless. Unless you saw it for yourself it's ALL conjecture and you're taking someone else's word for it. Saying anyone who watches the news is an idiot for believing what they see but believing what you see in this video without having seen it for youself is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
I've seen "documented" proof of giant seas monsters washing up on shores around the world. I've seen "documented" proof of aliens giving some feller named Bubba a "probing" and the autopsy that took place afterwards. I've seen "documented" proof that the moon landing was a lie. I've seen "documented" proof that video games cause people to kill each other. Now...does this make all this true because I have seen "video and documented proof" on each topic? Hardly. When an alien probes me and drops me off at the corpse of Sigmund the SeaMonster for and autopsy on the moon after we're all done chomping down power pills and eating blue ghosts in anger I will be able to say for certain what is true. Anything else is just believing someone else.
Do I think the government had some idea something like 9/11 could happen? Yes. Do i think they actually thought someone would REALLY go through with it? No, and that was their mistake obviously. Do I think any one Administration is to blame for this? Hardly, things like that have been going on for God knows how long. Do I believe that the U.S. would be so dastardly to stage things or stoop to using chemical warfare or torture or other atrocities? Certainly, I would be stupid to think otherwise. Do I think the U.S. did this to itself? I really don't even think I need to answer that one. We already have enough enemies without having to stage stories to create more out of the dark. Do I think ANY of this makes up for the deaths of all those people that had nothing to do with any of it? Hell no, the active portion of that phrase was "had nothing to do with any of it".
I drove by the Pentagon EVERYday on the way to work. Just 8 days before 9/11 happened I moved. I got to see it all first hand. No conspiracy theory is going to make me blame ANYONE other than the perpatrators.
Now, we can all sit around for another 4.5 years pointing fingers at each other trying to figure out who is to blame and what really happened or we can do something to prevent stuff like this from every happening again. Woops, no we can't. "The Patriot Act is unfair" cries the masses! "You can't tap my phone without a warrant! I might be having phonesex with an Transgender Monkey from Venus! God forbid the government who could care less should hear about that!" cry the outraged citizens who in the same breath demand "We need more safety".
8 words sum it all up for the position of the U.S. as it stands. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We the people can work just as hard to keep acts like this from happening. Be they planned by governments or terrorists. But that would mean we all need to remove out heads from our descending colons long enough to acknowledge the other 6.4billion souls on this Earth. And that's not a problem you can hold the U.S. soley to. You'd have to hold the citizens of EVERY country that have had any form of terrorism anywhere in their past to those very same standards. It's a Human Condition. Not a U.S. Condition.
In short, there's more of us ( citizens ) in the world than there are of them ( government folk ). If we just use our eyes, ears, and voting voices the right way NO ONE should be getting away with any of this.
**As an editted note I would like to point out that I did NOT watch the entire film/video as it quickly became the same repetative rhetoric I've heard for years. I live in Las Vegas, a few miles from Area 51. I am fed up with Conspiracy Theorists. Keep in mind, I don't bother watching the entire State of the Union addresses either as I feel they too could be sumed up in 100 words or less and save us all a little time and headache. Be it Democratic or Republican.**
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
I have seen alot of 9/11 videos too but this one was the most informative. Most of the 9/11 conspiracies all reach the same theory (except for the REALLY bad ones). Good find, I enjoyed watching it.
It has a disturbing lack of command of the facts while conveniently ignoring the manifold evidences that prove it's wrong. 9/11 IS the culmination of the success of terrorism as a result of US citizens and politicians turning two blind eyes to real-world events and foolishly believing ourselves isolated and protected. This conspiracy nonsense is not just ignorance, it is abject stupidity in a most dangerous form now also being promulgated by the most vile sort of partisan politics.
i wish it was true, i love stuff like that, i even cheer on hurricanes.
this is aimed at the feeble minded, and 90% of the world or so is the target audience.
Who says only liberals are believing it?
Does anyone else see the eery resemblance to the theory revolving around the 9/11 attacks, vs the Governments rhetoric of the happenings, and the Reichstag fire of 1933?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
This is lame like the people who say WWII didn't happen.
Hmm. All I have to say is, if you think that this movie's accusations are any less a form misinformation than "what the government tells us," then I recommend you turn on the Home Shopping Network because at least there nobody gets hurt. Seriously, editing together a series of tapes and select quotes to support this theory is all that is contained in that film and the only time they show the opposite "side's" position is when it plays directly into their conspiracy. Propoganda is what I call nearly everything I hear anymore about 9/11 that doesn't come out of the mouth of someone who was actually there. All you have to do is look at history and see that every major historical event is riddled with conspiracy theories. Pearl Harbor, The Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis, JFK's assassination, the moon landing, etc, etc, etc. This one is no different.
However, I believe that the producer / director of the film does get their real point across, and that is that the 9/11 puzzle is far from being solved by either side. The question is, are we asking the right people the right questions? And does it truely matter anymore? Even if terrorists didn't do the 9/11 attacks, there are ones that desperately want to now.
Well I can not comment on the video , because honestly i can not comfirm the facts.
But one thing I know because i have seen it with my own eyes.
One month before 9/11 i read a military magazine. In it was a topic about upcoming terrorist treats.
The treath they depicted as most likely to happen was a hijacked boing plane crushing into a skyscraper !
Coincidence ?
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I agree, one of the reasons I think this one has more credibility is because the directior doesn't really point any fingers saying "HE DID IT HE DID IT" like so many of the one's I've watched have. The evidence shown would make you believe it's the government, but he never actually says that. He's more just giving a bunch of points about the widely accepted theory that dont add up, not coming up with a new theory all of his own. That's why I like this video, and why it really did make me think.
Schutzbar - Human Warrior - Windrunner Alliance - World of Warcraft
Nihilanth - Kerra Paladin - Blackburrow - EverQuest II
XBL Gamertag - Eagle15GT
This guy has no idea what kind of physics were at work. It's so easy to talk about what should happen in theory (ie. the buildings shouldn't colapse and their should be debris), but that doesn't mean it's actually going to happen that way.
Now I'm on the part about the cellphones being faked. There was a show on Discovery a night or two ago about this. The cellphones did cut out and they weren't at cruising altitude, the plane was on a steady descent.
- America needed someone to blame and so did Bush
- Started a nonsense war
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Don't click here...no2
Anyways a program on UK tv told us why the twin towers fell :
Cause they were made cheaply and it would only take one floor to collapse to bring it all down! The temps inside the building causes the metal frame to collapse and then it set it all off!
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Don't click here...no2
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
i am personally completely non-liberal, and i've always been very scheptical of 9/11 conspiracy theories. however... this video lays down pure evidence and proof that cannot possibly be disputed. you cannot dispute fact, thats a fact. thats an utterly mind blowing peice of documentary, possibly the best i've ever seen on any subject, the guy who made that makes michael moore look like a school kid.
my brother works for the oil industry, and from some of the stories i've heard, its really not even remotely surprising that a country as power hungry as america would go to these lengths to get more money. the majority of the worlds oil does lay in the middle east, and up until 9/11 america didnt have a real, valid excuse to go get it.
Oil has to be the utmost retarded excuse Anti-Bush'ers are using for the war in Iraq.
IF we wanted oil then why attack Iraq? Why not Kuwait and Saudi Arabia where we've been stationed with large bases for 14+ years? And it's not as if Kuwait would have been hard to "take over". Both countries have a hell of a lot more oil the Iraq. I, for one, am glad that W Bush put so many billions into the Hydrogen powered car. In the future we can start converting over and tell everyone and their oil to toss off. You think the Middle East is chaos now what's going to happen when the majority of the world moves away from fossil fuels and into Hydrogen? They're going to lose their #1 source of income. And if you want to go on with a conspiracy about how the Hydrogen powered cars are "vaporware" talk to GM who has 12 Prototypes ON THE ROAD already. And yes...I have seen one here in Las Vegas at the Tech Shows. Not to mention there is an entire city in Sweden or Norway ( I can't recall where presicely off the top of my head and I am not going to be assed to look it up. ) that has switched their entire city powerplants over to Hydrogen power. It's sci-fi come real yet again.
If someone is claiming that Bush started this "war" against terror and the Middle East to gain a reason to "take the oil" then what exactly was that Clinton did with the dumping of all Tomahawk Cruise missles in our store houses to take out two defunct Al Queda/Bin Laden run "terrorist" training centers. Oh yeah, that's right, he had to so SOMETHING to get the media's attention off the fact that he committed purjury. (Note: I didn't say anything about his affair. Show me a president that HASN'T had an affair and I will be impressed. Lie about it while sworn under oath and it's a whole different story.)
Let me guess, the Oklahoma Bombing was staged so the U.S. could legitimise a war against U-Haul and Fertiliser companies, right?
Pure and simple fact is we're back in Iraq because what SHOULD have been finished nearly 16 years ago wasn't. Bush Sr. kowtowed to the U.N. and stuck to the planbook about "staying out of the cities" when we first went over there to liberate Kuwait. Had we done the entire job THEN we wouldn't be there now.
Did we go there under the excuse of searching down weapons of mass destruction, sure. Did we find any? Well, that depends on who you ask. I call taking a man our of power who was using Mustard and Seran Gases against Iranians and even Kurds in his own country. Thus killing 100s of 1000s of people a "weapon of MASS destruction". Hell, even the French, then naysayers of the world, were the ones to find the "grand cannon" he was building to launch chemical shells at Israel the first time we were there.
In the end, believe what conspiracy you want. Don't call ANY of it fact. Especially not something you read/saw/found on the internet. Unless you have held it in your hands or seen it with your own two eyes IT IS NOT FACT! Because you believe what you watch does NOT mean it is fact. Say what you want about the war in the Middle East, but unless you can look me sqaure in the eyes and say, "Hey! I think Saddam was a stand up fellow. He was a WONDERFUL person to leave in power and we shouldn't have gone there and removed him from that position. He was doing a bang up job!" stow it. Less people have died over there now, troopwise and citizenwise, since we've been there than have in the years preceding. If you think that it's horrible because it's U.S. troops dying instead of faceless Arabs then you are a close-minded elitist.
I will concur that I think the "war of terror" is half assed. But I also don't know what to suggest to make it better. Can't lock things down here at home to try to make it more safe without the left-wingers screaming about violations of Constitutional Rights! Can't hunt down EVERY group that supports Islam because...well...they are not involved. Islam and Terrorist are two wholly different things. Even if we find Osama and take him into custody, put him on public trial, imprison him and execute him on television do you REALLY think the terrorist attacks will die down? Not when something as tiny as a "cartoon drawing" can set people off into bombing/burning frenzies.
To sum it up, stop calling this video fact. I will give to you that he presents his case in a MUCH more thorough, less "guy who hides under the bridge and digs through your trash" manner. At least he argues out his "theories" more than most who just use "because I said so" as their crutch. Does that make it true? No. It's still just a theory.
As to non-Americans on this board I only ask one tiny favour. Stop calling America a massive money-grubber. If that were the case we wouldn't be spending more on Foreign Aid than we do on half our own citizens. I can only imagine what our medical system would be like here if we WERE as money grubbing as you imply and we told all those other countries to screw themselves with an ungreased 2x4 and that they have 6 mos to start paying back the loans. Yes, America is Capitalistic. So are MANY other countries in the world. I, personally, don't care for capitalism even though I am a Republican. It's a bit too Corporate Dictated for my taste but it's the best we have. Socialism would be great...IF you could find the ONE completely uncorrupt human being on the face of this Earth that could actually run it. AND if there wouldn't be a large portion of lazy asses that would ride the coat tails of others even further than they do now under Capitalism.
The reason why I say "America is damned if we do, damned if we don't" is because no matter WHAT we do half the world will be pissed off at us. If we provide aid to one country their enemies are going to be up in arms and threatening to bombs our schoolbuses full of children ( See Israel ). If we ignore a problem we're called power and money hungry, pompous asses who think they are too good for the world to step up and help. If we use military force to resolve an issue we're called war mongers even though that may have been the ONLY recourse to free that country ( see France 1940s ).
What I foresee happening is sooner or later the U.S. is going to get a president that is sick and tired of all the slurring and bashing of America regardless of what we do and we're going to go Isolationist. Then all those third world countries out there that need aid and help can rely on the U.N. You'll pardon me as a I shudder in fear at that thought. I wish we WOULD for 2 years act exactly the way everyone acuses us of acting. I wish we would only watch out for ourselves, lock our borders, cut every penny of aid going out of the country off, and ignore global politics.
Quick final topic to touch on: Yes...we ALL know that the Towers were poorly built. That is an undisputable fact because we all got to watch just how easy they came down. If we're going to sit around and blame Bush for that then that's just stupid. They were designed by a Japanese-American Architect and opened in 1973 while Nixon was president. Unless George W. is an omnipresent being I doubt he had anything to do with that. It was yet another fine example of Contractors cutting corners and costs on substandard materials. That and the fact that in 1973 I doubt the designer, Minoru Yamasaki, was sitting and thinking "Hrm...but will this design withstand two fully fueled 747 commercial liners flying into them at full speed." That whole situation is a live and learn issue. Sad that it had to be learned in such a manner.
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
Yeah to me the video made some very very strong points about 911...
One thing that I do whole heartedly agree with in the video is that that building could not possibly have burnt to the ground in that amount of time, and not in such a controlled space...
and how it was possible for a fire to spread 100+ floors in less than an hour and melt the thousands of tonnes of metal is beyond me.
I think some people shouldn't whole heartedly believe the government.... Everyone knows that the standard quality of a polititian is Lieing....
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"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
I watched this movie and in the end I was laughing my ass off. Liberalism at its best! If there anything that that will destroy US in the future it will be liberals. Just like it happened with any great empire before hand, take Rome for example, empire stood strong until society turned to liberalism as driving force behind the empire, we all know what happened then.
Was Pearl Harbor planned by Roosevelt? I dont know maybe, there are a lot of indirect evidence that indicate that his actions were at the very l least wierd. However now look at the possibility at what would have happened if Pearl Harbor never happened, US might not have entered the war and well right now we would be living in German State.
Same thing in here did govermnet plan 9/11? I dont know maybe, but at least that problem that was viewd by 99% of the Americans to be in the land very far away came to appear extreemly real.
My heart goes out to all people who got killed in 9/11 as well as Pearl Harbor but in my eyes their deaths paid for our own blindness and unwillingness to live with and deal with other people on planet Earth rather then living 2 oceans away from everyone and not caring.
malachi 1975 - i couldnt read your entire post as it was longer than the bible. but i read the first points about oil and i totally disagree, your simply wrong.
firstly, saudi arabia is stable, and america happens to have strong financial ties with the saudi's. attacking them would be like attacking your mother, just weird. iraq and iran are perfect targets.. they have some links to terrorism and have unstable governments, meaning attacking them can be more easily argue'd for.
iran is next on the list, its almost embarrasing when you see the yanks being so rediculously blatent about their intentions. i mean, g w comming out with the 'near terrorist attack' that had been thwarted shortly after 9/11. they wouldnt happen to be iranian terrorists would they?! they wouldnt have lived in a nuclear power plant would they?! its sickening.
everyone knows america has a hidden agenda, people that dont realise it are just basically thick. why the hell would the american government be looking to make money from hydrogen power now, when theres no money to be made from it?! ALL the money is in oil, this is a fact. and until the very day that oil on this planet is depleted, it will remain this way.
an example my brother gave me was of oil fields in nigeria, apparently geologists there came accross massive, massive amounts of gas. enough gas infact to power the entire world for 2 entire years. however, at the moment it just wasnt profitable enough to mine, so they burnt it all, every last atom into the atmosphere.
its naive to think that governments and oil companies (oil companies basically run the governments) actually give a crap about anything. they pretent to simply because they have to be seen to, but in reality its the most corrupt business in the history of man.
we had absolutely no reason to attack iraq in the first place, many countries in the middle east including iraq CANNOT operate in a democracy, it just will NEVER work. a dictatorship is the only thing that can control a country of religious extremists, trying to 'liberate' them and give them they're own voice is a very dangerous thing, as we've found out. but what the hell do the americans care, they're there for the money :P
"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."
Erm Iraq was a scapegoat, jut like Poland was when Germany invaded.
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Don't click here...no2
There was a lot there that was kind of questionable, i'd have to see the documents or at least photos myself to believe something like Bin Laden being in our custody days before the attacks, i'm sure he wouldn't really be afraid to mention it if he had been.
I'm mostly concerned with things that should be impossible, like the two towers collapsing from those impacts at the upper levels. Even if somehow an excess of jet fuel had leaked all the way to the basement of the building, in the midst of what was supposed to be a raging inferno, it couldn't have melted the supports and definently not in a way that would cause the buildings to collapse so neatly. Then the minor damage at the Pentagon in retrospect, there's no way a 757 hit anywhere near there, unless there's a magical titanium reinforced lawn there that can withstand heat even jet engines can't. Phone calls at 32000 feet, Flight 93's complete dissapearance. Black Boxes apparently disintegrating while bodies and paper documents remain intact.
It was also strange that those flights had been off course for so long and had even gone through restricted airspace without getting shot down. Any pilot would be well aware way beforehand what would happen if they did go flying around the Pentagon, and the hi-jackers, alive or dead, were supposed to be trained and licensed. Why would they go through with the plan knowing that by all means it would fail before they got anywhere near the WTC/Pentagon? Was way too convenient that our forces were unavailable for just that day. How would anyone but our own government be able to get that kind of information? If Al Qaeda had really infiltrated us so far I would think there would have been a lot more happening these past 4 years.
Those are things you really can't lie about, the current explanations are refuted by the evidence.
I am as proud to call myself a liberal as Hannity is to call himself a conservative. I think I was more intelligent than Bush when I was still in High School. I think Cheney is a Dick and the Rice would do anything at all to rise through the ranks.
I have heard some of this before but a lot of questions were never answered. This video gave answers to all those questions but I am not going to consider all these answers to be the absolute truth. All I know is that people will do anything for money.
I also believe that if everything were known about 9/11 a lot of very important people would be in jail for the rest of their lives.
Imagine if the Flight 93 part was true. All those people taken into an abandoned building and disposed of. The video says something about voice cloning or what not. If I believed completely about the flight 93 part I would lean more toward the flight attendant being told it was all part of the drill.