i think that too many people misadventantly attribute the wrong reasons wow is popular.
yes, al th ethings you listed are true, but i'm pretty sure it's the control system and game engine that earned 5 million players.
no game b efore wow has actually been "fun" to just play. it always relied on mmo elements to keep it going because the game itself was boring.
wow has a nice platformer esque control system that is just fun to play with...
i've heard that you can clamber on anything you want in vanguard, so it's sounding as though it is veering away from other game pitfals ie swg, gw, eveonline, and every mmo except wow.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Originally posted by Abraxos Wow has a lot of elements that appeal to the Anime/Asian flare that allowed it sucess over seas. Vanguard is a very traditional Euro-feel High Fantasy ala-Tolkien. It will definitely be a success and it is the style I prefer but it probably will not be overly popular without the huge swords, shoulderpads and cartoony humorous look of WOW. Check out how Xbox 360 fared over seas and it's lack of Final Fantasy styled RPGs. As others have already stated WOW also had an established fanbase who knew the lore from the RTS games. No other game I can think of will surpass 5 million for a long time. I actually think that a 5 million subscriber game isn't healthy for the enviroment anyway. I like the idea of games catering to people's wants instead of trying to please everyone. Some desire intensive PvP, some extreme role playing, some more challenge, some simplified soloability etc etc. Many successful 500K games that cater to these niches would be a much happier situation to me.
talk about following trends... i thought final fantasy 7 was pretty cool on playstation... for like the first hour before i realized how lame and redundant turn based combat was.
then all of a sudden zelda comes out on n64... i dont get how the fuck japanese people enjoy ff...
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Originally posted by krenalor Another post showing the total lack of brains and over-weaning ego of the Vanguard dweebs. WoW hit 6 million players, Vanguard will be damn lucky to have 200k!!!!
and another post by krenalor the troll, all you ever talk about is how many wow player's there are and how much vanguard will suck, but you refuse to actually have a discussion about it when countless people call you out.
all you do is insult people and try to get them mad so when they respond back and insult you back, you report them. you are nothing but a freaking troll and deserve to be banned from these forums....lucky for you it is not up to me.
p.s read my Sig and tell me it is a raid-centric game, and you say we have "total lack of brains" why don't you try actually finding out facts before you flame a certain game eh? but again you don't care, you are just a troll trying to get a rise out of people...
Don't credit yourself with ever forming an argument fanboi. You keep insisting that you can only gear with raiding in WoW and I did it in PvP, an avenue not available in Vangarbage. They can't design decently balanced classes is why, and refuse to try. There is nothing earth shaking about EQ2 errr...Vangarbage in content either.
Originally posted by Heltern Don't credit yourself with ever forming an argument fanboi. You keep insisting that you can only gear with raiding in WoW and I did it in PvP, an avenue not available in Vangarbage.
Vanguard has pvp.
Do you guys even read any info on these games when you troll their boards?
Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by angerrOriginally posted by krenalorAnother post showing the total lack of brains and over-weaning ego of the Vanguard dweebs. WoW hit 6 million players, Vanguard will be damn lucky to have 200k!!!!and another post by krenalor the troll, all you ever talk about is how many wow player's there are and how much vanguard will suck, but you refuse to actually have a discussion about it when countless people call you out. all you do is insult people and try to get them mad so when they respond back and insult you back, you report them. you are nothing but a freaking troll and deserve to be banned from these forums....lucky for you it is not up to me. p.s read my Sig and tell me it is a raid-centric game, and you say we have "total lack of brains" why don't you try actually finding out facts before you flame a certain game eh? but again you don't care, you are just a troll trying to get a rise out of people... Don't credit yourself with ever forming an argument fanboi. You keep insisting that you can only gear with raiding in WoW and I did it in PvP, an avenue not available in Vangarbage. They can't design decently balanced classes is why, and refuse to try. There is nothing earth shaking about EQ2 errr...Vangarbage in content either.
and how many countless hours of bg grinding did you do to acquire that gear, troll? at least i bring an argument to the table, all you bring is a hypocritical point of view.
i play wow, probably more then even you do atm..... i have done every single aspect of wow soloing,bg farming, raiding.... every single aspect of wow's endgame involves a huge grind weather it be bg's or raiding.
but do you see me going to the wow forums being a total a$$ because i don't agree with that? nope....go right ahead and keep trolling and pretending like you have any freaking clue....keep grinding the same bg instances 12+ hours per day so you can get the gear you want.
you want me to form more of an argument than that? troll? keep coming back i got more for ya!
Haven't read the whole thread, but Vanguard will be what hardcore gamers will stick to. Wow is a very fun game, i admit, but Wow is weak. It's easy, lvling, farming gold, getting good gear.. everything. The only huge grind is getting the highest ranks. Every idiot and gimp can make it to 60 really fast in Wow, and that doesnt help end game community. Being forced to group out to xp is the best thing for a mmo's community (especially end game), and somewhat insures that your player base, that reaches the high lvls, isn't too gimped. How many time have i seen someone in Wow claiming to have 5-6 lvl 60s not know a damn thing about pulling or simply the basic logics of grping (the most frequent one being related to hate through healing). So yeah, if you're a real hardcore mmo gamer go Vanguard and quit everything else. Now let's just hope end game content will be worth lvling.. 'cause the only thing that matters in a mmo is end game, everything. Casual gamers won't have fun in this one, don't bother with it (i know though that some are hardcore but have certain jobs, family etc. issues that prevent them from playing a lot). Once again, casual players, don't come and ruin the hardcore gamer's time. I know it sounds elitist and completly retard, but in mmo's with big and grinding content, and forced grouping, casual gamers are always slowing down the hardcore ones.
Originally posted by Fatd Haven't read the whole thread, but Vanguard will be what hardcore gamers will stick to. Wow is a very fun game, i admit, but Wow is weak. It's easy, lvling, farming gold, getting good gear.. everything. The only huge grind is getting the highest ranks. Every idiot and gimp can make it to 60 really fast in Wow, and that doesnt help end game community. Being forced to group out to xp is the best thing for a mmo's community (especially end game), and somewhat insures that your player base, that reaches the high lvls, isn't too gimped. How many time have i seen someone in Wow claiming to have 5-6 lvl 60s not know a damn thing about pulling or simply the basic logics of grping (the most frequent one being related to hate through healing). So yeah, if you're a real hardcore mmo gamer go Vanguard and quit everything else. Now let's just hope end game content will be worth lvling.. 'cause the only thing that matters in a mmo is end game, everything. Casual gamers won't have fun in this one, don't bother with it (i know though that some are hardcore but have certain jobs, family etc. issues that prevent them from playing a lot). Once again, casual players, don't come and ruin the hardcore gamer's time. I know it sounds elitist and completly retard, but in mmo's with big and grinding content, and forced grouping, casual gamers are always slowing down the hardcore ones.
i am glad you necro'd this topic because re reading this just goes to show what a liar and a troll Heltern is, in another topic he claims he don't play raid-centric games like wow....when clearly he admitted in this thread he does.
Originally posted by Fatd ...Now let's just hope end game content will be worth lvling.. 'cause the only thing that matters in a mmo is end game, everything. ...
I guess that's what I'm hoping is different and what I'm looking for in a new mmorpg. The "journey" should be the part that matters. NOT, the "end". Since there isn't really ever an end anyway. It's not like you can beat a final boss mob and then see the credits screen scroll by.
I am still mystified at why countless mmorpg'ers grind and reach the "end game" as fast as possible. Paying absolutely no heed to all the content they race through to get there. Then complain that the game is lacking content when they get there. Hello! What's wrong with enjoying the content at level 15, 25, 36, 43, etc. The game I am looking for will be fun at EVERY level - not just the "end". Hopefully, VanGuard is that game - if not; the search continues.
Vanguard will definatly be a better game than WoW, but I don't think that matters to many MMO'ers WoW will still kick its ass population-wise. VG will have plenty of people though, its not going to bomb.
I honestly don't care if Vanguard tops WoW, they are two completly different games. All I want is a awesome kick ass game, and i know that Sigil is going to bring us that
wow was great to grow up in. I had a lot of fun with it. It was too easy and pvp with no cosequences gave you no place to go after you maxed a couple characters out. The raiding was sub EQ imo and I lost interest after a while.
We have to see with vanguard, i'm hoping it's another one can keep me occupied for a long while like UO and EQ did.
Top money wise, I would be surprised if did, top quality wise, only time will tell.
Trying to compete with WoW would only destroy the entire market Vanguard is after and I hope they dont' even try.
I hope they try to make the game a success in adventuring and challenges to the normal fantasy game mind set, something that would give the average WoW player a heart attack while attempting to play.
(Not all of them, some 1st time MMO players from WoW are probably about ready to step upto a complex game that actually has stories to read in the quest information and the occasional frustrating puzzle)
Vanguard will top WoW in many ways because it is being designed to be a more "complex" game than WoW ever will be.
Vanguard won't have higher subscription numbers than WoW however -- that's a given.
Vanguard's subscription numbers will depend very much on 1) the old EQ crowd coming out for the game and 2) word of mouth and player recommendations post-release.
The true judge of this will be the hype generated at this year's E3.
If it demos well and gets a good buzz going, it could possibly get pre-orders up to the 250,000 mark prior to release. This would not be surprising given the player-base and appetite for MMORPGs as demonstrated by the WoW figures.
If the game delivers the goods upon release, I could see its subscription numbers swelling to 500,000 in the first six months.
Given the enormous popularity of MMORPGs at this point, figures of 250,000-500,000 might actually be too conservative an estimate.
Originally posted by angerr i agree with the above two posters combined, vanguard should easily surpass eq2 and beat it into submission. but wow will still be wow, and will always attract the casual player.
what is so bad with the casual gamers (including myself)? It seems like they are always the enemy. the only difference between us and the hardcore gamers is that we play games for fun and that that is the ultimate reason. a lot of people find WOW fun, sure it doesnt take a large amount of thinking or strategy but it was fun so a lot of people play it. If games get to serious then they are not fun. Why play something which is work and doesnt leave you feeling satisfied and entertained at the end of the day which is what games are ment to do and should do
The question is Will Vanguard top WoW hum well that depends who is asking if it is the avrage 13 year old kid that is playing wow or the 20 year old's first mmorpg then i would say prolly not. im shure they will sit back any type how every game looks like WoW and try to flame it before looking into detail witch is fine.
but if you want to play a game for its content and looking for a challenge then it prolly will since it will have large content im currently beta testing this game and it is huge it takes up 4gb or mem off my harddrive but like i said it depends who u are asking. for me i want a challenge not a Carebear mash all the 500 buttons on my screen.
Originally posted by angerr i agree with the above two posters combined, vanguard should easily surpass eq2 and beat it into submission. but wow will still be wow, and will always attract the casual player. what is so bad with the casual gamers (including myself)? It seems like they are always the enemy. the only difference between us and the hardcore gamers is that we play games for fun and that that is the ultimate reason. a lot of people find WOW fun, sure it doesnt take a large amount of thinking or strategy but it was fun so a lot of people play it. If games get to serious then they are not fun. Why play something which is work and doesnt leave you feeling satisfied and entertained at the end of the day which is what games are ment to do and should do
hmmm i think you misunderstood me, i never said there is anything wrong with casual gamers or the games themselves, i think wow is a great game.
you may think games that require more time are not fun and i do see your point, but for other people these games are fun and that is why i think it is good there are games for people that have different play styles.
also to answer your last question, the reason why i don't play wow anymore is because it felt like i was just grinding to grind it wasn't fun for me and didn't leave me satisfied or entertained at the end of the day anymore.
if i play a game thats hard or challenging, yeah it can be frustrating at times but when i do accomplish a goal it feels that much more gratifying and at the end of the day i am satisfied and entertained.
everyone has their own view and opinion on what is fun or how much time they have to play, wow is a great game for casual players to play (until they reach maximum lvl IMO) and vanguard will be good for "core" gamers that have more time to play and like a challenging mmorpg.
There is no chance what so ever that VG will even come close to WoW. Get real. I belive VG will be as big as SWG or EQ anything bigger then that will really surprise me.
"Not only do I not give a fuck, but it also gets me hostile at some guy who I could kill with my hands, who, like, gets to wield his fake verbal superiority over me." -Henry Rollins
stormbane, i disagree with you. WoW may be an amazing game, but the customer support is unbelievabally rubbish. Someone hacked my account, and blizzard locked it til they could prove it was my account. Fair enough... 4 months later im still waiting for a reply off them about me sending in all the required informatin (drivers license to the credit card owner). And i have many friends that i played the game with that have had the same problem, and this is really loosing alot of customers, due to their lowsy support, and copy and pasted help.
I hope VG seriously beats WoW in all aspects; Game play, support, graphics, and i really do want it to be a great success.
At the moment, the information i've researched about it, it not only sounds great, it covers the areas that WoW has failed to impress me on.
Originally posted by Stormbane There is no chance what so ever that VG will even come close to WoW. Get real. I belive VG will be as big as SWG or EQ anything bigger then that will really surprise me.
I actually agree with you mate. VG has been designed to appeal the core players. The numbers Sigil expect to reach is between 500K - 1 M maximun. Anything that will come after that target, it will be a surprise for Sigil too
It seems to be a common perception that WoW is this great casual game. I went through plane of time on tallon zek in EQ1... a pvp server where the opposing guild would have an army of twinks logged out in plane of earth simply to log on and sabotage mezzes during TRC....................... and WoW raiding is much harder, and much more involved than that.
Don't get me wrong. Leveling in WoW is pathetically easy, and could be accomplished by marginally trained hedgehogs with 100% efficiency. Raid content, however is the exact opposite.
I am a guild leader, raid leader and MT in WoW. The encounters are far more involved, and progression actually requires successful and skillful guild management. The economy is functional and essentially a required tool for success as new bosses invariably require 80 to 100 hours farm-time worth of consumables to defeat.
Frankly... risk and reward are somewhat in balance with WoW. Any bnet or diablo kiddie can reach the maximum level. People who can get along with a few others and occasionally type complete sentences can get marginally decent gear through group interplay. Skilled players can gain epic gear through raiding or continual PVP. Highly dedicated raiders (30+ hours a week) can obtain the highest tier epics and occasional legendary items.
As a final note.... it took me a full year of farming MC to get my legendary....... and based on drop percentages, I got it at statistically at the correct time.... even after getting the drops it still required the assistance of additional guilds, and an incredible economic undertaking to complete...... having completed 4 epics in EQ1 I can say with certainty that there is no comparison. The WoW legendary was far harder to get.
I have high hopes for vanguard but the simple fact is that it wont be nearly as casual friendly (which might not be a bad thing), so it wont achieve the amss popularity of WoW.
I just hope vanguard gets a decent PvP model running soon after launch...
After reading all the posts in this thread, I will definetly be giving vanguard a go, it sounds great to me. As well i hope they do make it to a niche market which essentially is putting things in the game which people feel is lacking in many other MMORPG's. The combat system sounds great to me (thanks for whoever linked that thread about the combat by the way), combat in a game of this sort is very important to me, as combat is what you'll be doing a lot of the time, so the more interesting and diverse it is then the more interest will be maintained by the player.
Sphere's about talents were mentioned earlier, can anyone tell me about them or link a site where i can look into this aspect of the game?
I too like many poster's in this thread have played Wow and the reason I left was that combat became boring for me, you click on the mob and then during combat you can hit a number on your keyboard or click a special move icon (this is simplifying it overly). It became obvious to me that my interest was waning when during a fight with a mob i simply clicked once to attack whilst having a conversation with a friend who had come in only to win the fight without having to do anything further. This here illustrates in my opinion one of the reasons why WoW is so popular, the ease of combat.
The combat dynamic this represented was not fun to me anymore and by the sound of vanguards combat system, it is exactly what i look for.
With all the content I see listed being in this game and the content Id say it will be.... I dont understand why everyone is like WOW this and WOW that I have a lvl 40 warlock, and have since moved on to other games play Auto Assault ATM, I will definately get Vanguard if its as good as it looks and people say it is time will tell..... heck I bought a 2 month game card 2 months ago and only logged a week on that because I got bored...
It's great to have amazing ideas but if it is not implemented well it will kill the game. If vanguard's system is broken in anyway as in it pisses you off just by playing then it will fail with flying colors.
Blizzard didn't have any experience in MMO so what did they do, they copied the "winning" elements in other MMO's and made sure they implemeneted it well. Often times it's not the idea that sells, it is the presentation of the idea that sells. You can sell people pieces of crap if your advertising is good enough.
I don't think they can top WoW unless at the least everything is implemented perfectly and smoothly and there are options that can somewhat attract the masses.
Will they top WoW in the long run since Vanguard is going to be built to last . . . I highly doubt it, give blizzard a few years and then World of Starcraft or some type of starcraft game comes out and then game over for Vanguard. The next game that blizzard releases will gank any game that's currently out there.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Comments
i think that too many people misadventantly attribute the wrong reasons wow is popular.
yes, al th ethings you listed are true, but i'm pretty sure it's the control system and game engine that earned 5 million players.
no game b efore wow has actually been "fun" to just play. it always relied on mmo elements to keep it going because the game itself was boring.
wow has a nice platformer esque control system that is just fun to play with...
i've heard that you can clamber on anything you want in vanguard, so it's sounding as though it is veering away from other game pitfals ie swg, gw, eveonline, and every mmo except wow.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
talk about following trends... i thought final fantasy 7 was pretty cool on playstation... for like the first hour before i realized how lame and redundant turn based combat was.
then all of a sudden zelda comes out on n64... i dont get how the fuck japanese people enjoy ff...
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
and another post by krenalor the troll, all you ever talk about is how many wow player's there are and how much vanguard will suck, but you refuse to actually have a discussion about it when countless people call you out.
all you do is insult people and try to get them mad so when they respond back and insult you back, you report them. you are nothing but a freaking troll and deserve to be banned from these forums....lucky for you it is not up to me.
p.s read my Sig and tell me it is a raid-centric game, and you say we have "total lack of brains"
why don't you try actually finding out facts before you flame a certain game eh? but again you don't care, you are just a troll trying to get a rise out of people...
Don't credit yourself with ever forming an argument fanboi. You keep insisting that you can only gear with raiding in WoW and I did it in PvP, an avenue not available in Vangarbage. They can't design decently balanced classes is why, and refuse to try. There is nothing earth shaking about EQ2 errr...Vangarbage in content either.
Vanguard has pvp.
Do you guys even read any info on these games when you troll their boards?
and how many countless hours of bg grinding did you do to acquire that gear, troll? at least i bring an argument to the table, all you bring is a hypocritical point of view.
i play wow, probably more then even you do atm..... i have done every single aspect of wow soloing,bg farming, raiding.... every single aspect of wow's endgame involves a huge grind weather it be bg's or raiding.
but do you see me going to the wow forums being a total a$$ because i don't agree with that? nope....go right ahead and keep trolling and pretending like you have any freaking clue....keep grinding the same bg instances 12+ hours per day so you can get the gear you want.
you want me to form more of an argument than that? troll? keep coming back i got more for ya!
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
i am glad you necro'd this topic because re reading this just goes to show what a liar and a troll Heltern is, in another topic he claims he don't play raid-centric games like wow....when clearly he admitted in this thread he does.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I am still mystified at why countless mmorpg'ers grind and reach the "end game" as fast as possible. Paying absolutely no heed to all the content they race through to get there. Then complain that the game is lacking content when they get there. Hello! What's wrong with enjoying the content at level 15, 25, 36, 43, etc. The game I am looking for will be fun at EVERY level - not just the "end". Hopefully, VanGuard is that game - if not; the search continues.
We have to see with vanguard, i'm hoping it's another one can keep me occupied for a long while like UO and EQ did.
Top money wise, I would be surprised if did, top quality wise, only time will tell
Trying to compete with WoW would only destroy the entire market Vanguard is after and I hope they dont' even try.
I hope they try to make the game a success in adventuring and challenges to the normal fantasy game mind set, something that would give the average WoW player a heart attack while attempting to play.
(Not all of them, some 1st time MMO players from WoW are probably about ready to step upto a complex game that actually has stories to read in the quest information and the occasional frustrating puzzle)
Will Vanguard top WoW?
Okay, good question. Answer: Yes and No.
Vanguard will top WoW in many ways because it is being designed to be a more "complex" game than WoW ever will be.
Vanguard won't have higher subscription numbers than WoW however -- that's a given.
Vanguard's subscription numbers will depend very much on 1) the old EQ crowd coming out for the game and 2) word of mouth and player recommendations post-release.
The true judge of this will be the hype generated at this year's E3.
If it demos well and gets a good buzz going, it could possibly get pre-orders up to the 250,000 mark prior to release. This would not be surprising given the player-base and appetite for MMORPGs as demonstrated by the WoW figures.
If the game delivers the goods upon release, I could see its subscription numbers swelling to 500,000 in the first six months.
Given the enormous popularity of MMORPGs at this point, figures of 250,000-500,000 might actually be too conservative an estimate.
~ Ancient Membership ~
but if you want to play a game for its content and looking for a challenge then it prolly will since it will have large content im currently beta testing this game and it is huge it takes up 4gb or mem off my harddrive
but like i said it depends who u are asking. for me i want a challenge not a Carebear mash all the 500 buttons on my screen.
hmmm i think you misunderstood me, i never said there is anything wrong with casual gamers or the games themselves, i think wow is a great game.
you may think games that require more time are not fun and i do see your point, but for other people these games are fun and that is why i think it is good there are games for people that have different play styles.
also to answer your last question, the reason why i don't play wow anymore is because it felt like i was just grinding to grind it wasn't fun for me and didn't leave me satisfied or entertained at the end of the day anymore.
if i play a game thats hard or challenging, yeah it can be frustrating at times but when i do accomplish a goal it feels that much more gratifying and at the end of the day i am satisfied and entertained.
everyone has their own view and opinion on what is fun or how much time they have to play, wow is a great game for casual players to play (until they reach maximum lvl IMO) and vanguard will be good for "core" gamers that have more time to play and like a challenging mmorpg.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
"Not only do I not give a fuck, but it also gets me hostile at some guy who I could kill with my hands, who, like, gets to wield his fake verbal superiority over me."
-Henry Rollins
stormbane, i disagree with you. WoW may be an amazing game, but the customer support is unbelievabally rubbish. Someone hacked my account, and blizzard locked it til they could prove it was my account. Fair enough... 4 months later im still waiting for a reply off them about me sending in all the required informatin (drivers license to the credit card owner). And i have many friends that i played the game with that have had the same problem, and this is really loosing alot of customers, due to their lowsy support, and copy and pasted help.
I hope VG seriously beats WoW in all aspects; Game play, support, graphics, and i really do want it to be a great success.
At the moment, the information i've researched about it, it not only sounds great, it covers the areas that WoW has failed to impress me on.
VG has been designed to appeal the core players.
The numbers Sigil expect to reach is between 500K - 1 M maximun.
Anything that will come after that target, it will be a surprise for Sigil too
It seems to be a common perception that WoW is this great casual game. I went through plane of time on tallon zek in EQ1... a pvp server where the opposing guild would have an army of twinks logged out in plane of earth simply to log on and sabotage mezzes during TRC....................... and WoW raiding is much harder, and much more involved than that.
Don't get me wrong. Leveling in WoW is pathetically easy, and could be accomplished by marginally trained hedgehogs with 100% efficiency. Raid content, however is the exact opposite.
I am a guild leader, raid leader and MT in WoW. The encounters are far more involved, and progression actually requires successful and skillful guild management. The economy is functional and essentially a required tool for success as new bosses invariably require 80 to 100 hours farm-time worth of consumables to defeat.
Frankly... risk and reward are somewhat in balance with WoW. Any bnet or diablo kiddie can reach the maximum level. People who can get along with a few others and occasionally type complete sentences can get marginally decent gear through group interplay. Skilled players can gain epic gear through raiding or continual PVP. Highly dedicated raiders (30+ hours a week) can obtain the highest tier epics and occasional legendary items.
As a final note.... it took me a full year of farming MC to get my legendary....... and based on drop percentages, I got it at statistically at the correct time.... even after getting the drops it still required the assistance of additional guilds, and an incredible economic undertaking to complete...... having completed 4 epics in EQ1 I can say with certainty that there is no comparison. The WoW legendary was far harder to get.
I have high hopes for vanguard but the simple fact is that it wont be nearly as casual friendly (which might not be a bad thing), so it wont achieve the amss popularity of WoW.
I just hope vanguard gets a decent PvP model running soon after launch...
Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear...
After reading all the posts in this thread, I will definetly be giving vanguard a go, it sounds great to me. As well i hope they do make it to a niche market which essentially is putting things in the game which people feel is lacking in many other MMORPG's. The combat system sounds great to me (thanks for whoever linked that thread about the combat by the way), combat in a game of this sort is very important to me, as combat is what you'll be doing a lot of the time, so the more interesting and diverse it is then the more interest will be maintained by the player.
Sphere's about talents were mentioned earlier, can anyone tell me about them or link a site where i can look into this aspect of the game?
I too like many poster's in this thread have played Wow and the reason I left was that combat became boring for me, you click on the mob and then during combat you can hit a number on your keyboard or click a special move icon (this is simplifying it overly). It became obvious to me that my interest was waning when during a fight with a mob i simply clicked once to attack whilst having a conversation with a friend who had come in only to win the fight without having to do anything further. This here illustrates in my opinion one of the reasons why WoW is so popular, the ease of combat.
The combat dynamic this represented was not fun to me anymore and by the sound of vanguards combat system, it is exactly what i look for.
It's great to have amazing ideas but if it is not implemented well it will kill the game. If vanguard's system is broken in anyway as in it pisses you off just by playing then it will fail with flying colors.
Blizzard didn't have any experience in MMO so what did they do, they copied the "winning" elements in other MMO's and made sure they implemeneted it well. Often times it's not the idea that sells, it is the presentation of the idea that sells. You can sell people pieces of crap if your advertising is good enough.
I don't think they can top WoW unless at the least everything is implemented perfectly and smoothly and there are options that can somewhat attract the masses.
Will they top WoW in the long run since Vanguard is going to be built to last . . . I highly doubt it, give blizzard a few years and then World of Starcraft or some type of starcraft game comes out and then game over for Vanguard. The next game that blizzard releases will gank any game that's currently out there.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.