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D&D fails
Kilikan
Member Posts: 9
ok, i havent tried ddo and i might be soon but im really not impress by this, i has clearly hoping for a new wow. I played pen and paper dungeon & dragon for 5 year and i got over 1000$ wort books, box set, world, dungeons, races, monsters, quest . I was reading those while thinking of this game. If i was a game developper and started a game in the world of krynn man ill be rich by now. *sigh* I was really hoping for more content that, i got book that describe event for 3 years, day by day for the players cuz i was the dm (dungeons master) think about it 3 years of plot, quest, wars, invasions, magic, heroes, event, u names it. I got over 10 quest 1-15 story driven quest. Developpers dont have even to think about the quest, just render it. How hard can that be? Wow, everquest do better work right now. This game doesnt sound serious to me or agressive enough to take is place.
Comments
An Everquest style D&D mmorpg would just not work in my opinion.. besides, why don't you wait until you try this game before making a thread called "D&D FAILS".. you sound very prejudiced.
Have played:
UO, WOW, COH/V, EQ2
Currently playing:
Age of Conan (EU)
DDO isn't going to take the place of WoW simply because they are dissimmilar games. If games like EQ, and WoW are the mainstream of MMOs then DDO is an offshoot. It is not trying to accomplish the same things as these games.
I'm still on the bubble about buying this game. On the one hand I like the idea of instanced dungeons, and small groups of players working together. That's pure D&D.
On the other hand exploring is a huge part of MMO games to me, and the lack of a giant persistant world pretty much eliminates that aspect of the game. There is no freedom to move through the world as you wish. This is something pen and paper D&D has which DDO severely lacks. In D&D you forge your own way through the world, but in DDO you stay in one city.
I think the developers did a good job with instancing, grouping, and traps, but I think they crippled their game by not giving it a larger world. This will probably change with expansions, or downloadable upgrades, but for now Stormreach seems very limited.
It isn't correct to say DDO fails because it is not like WoW, or Everquest. That is one of its strengths, but the lack of an immersive larger world is also its greatest weakness.
It doesn't fail. It is just different.
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.
I agree w/ the last post 100%. Half the fun in a PnP game is getting to ther dungeon in the first place. Usually, there are usually quite a few misadventures along the way. However, I think the instanced dungeons and small group mechanics feel very much like DnD.
Overall, I think the devs did alot of things right; rouges, grouping, etc. A big world to explore would to explore would have been nice, though. In fact, that's one of the biggest draws of mmo's for me.
Personaly, I love this game despite the few things that I would have done differently. After all, no game is going to be everything to everybody. It just can't happen. It's silly to say the game fails just because it isn't a carbon copy of the way you would have done it.
Why do SO many people completely fail to understand DDO was/is NOT WoW with "knobs on". I don't feel that a traditional WoW'sy ( seeing as there are so many WoW'rs out here ) world to explore would fit into DDO.
PLAY it then come back and write something.
"Developpers dont have even to think about the quest, just render it. How hard can that be?"
They simply can't make dungeons faster than people hack through them, but more content will come.
WoW and Everquest do different work!
I played it... Don't like it... I hate the combat. I want to rest when I want to rest, not when they say I can. I hate having to go back to a tavern to regain HP. etc...
You are right, content will come... Have you seen the latest??? For the April module, you get 15 more dungeons, which are supposed to be for all levels. But, hey, it's free... this time...
I can agree that the combat may not be fun for some, but other like it. It's really just a matter of taste. However, the people who have never played the game in any of its phases should not be complaining about the way they "think" the game might be, so I can agree with the posters who have said that.
In regards to the content updates, there is some discussion on whether or not they will be monthly or bi-monthly as there is no official word on that yet. But there IS an offical statement that says the content updates are ALL going to be completely FREE. The only thing players will have to pay for are expansions, just as in other games, but they will not have to pay for the regular updates.
Turbine has definately taken a drop since Asheron's Call 1
https://i.imgur.com/Dc8dU3M.png
I just say that ddo fail to impress me or maybe the gaming industries. Maybe ddo havent step out stong to take players with a huge content that i was looking for. I have no doubt that update will come for this is a pretty young mmorpg and that why i said i will try it late on. But i still fear an another soe/lucasarts episode in this one. Like the episode that lucasart paid millions for everquest 2 server. I want to see more help of tsr and i fear that neverwinter 2 multiplayer might shoot a strong bullet in ddo foot and maybe on player at the same time.
Well lets inject a little fact then shall we.
Turbine offered players what most of you say you want with AC2. Big expansive environment, crafting, city building, grinding in open areas etc etc etc... and all that good WoW type stuff. We all know what happened to AC2.
In many ways it would be fair to argue that devs cant win with some people. Turbine obviously licked their wounds after AC2 and thought "ok WoW has proven that you dont need depth, complexity, immediate content, detailed crafting systems or any of that stuff to be successful". "We have a name here with D&D and we can either try and copy WoW and AC2's model, or we can try as hard as we can to strike a balance between PnP D&D and MMO gaming".
Imho they got it about as perfectly right as they possibly could. Is the game for everyone ? HELL NO. Is the game enjoyble for those that really GET what Turbine is trying to achieve, HELL YES!
I almost cancelled my pre-order after reading the official forums for weeks before my copy arrived as the Oz release was 2 weeks late, so I got to read LOTS of very negative stuff all from players with the same gripes.
Well Im so glad I didnt listen to them because this game just happens to suit me down to the ground. I only have 3-5 hours per day MAX between about 7pm and midnight when I get home from work to play these days. My days of 14 hour sessions in EQ1 are long gone. I have a fulltime job a mortgage and a family so D&D just hits the nail right on the head for me. I can log in, have a good adventure with no "work/grind" like every other MMO on the market you want to name. I play, I enjoy, I log out, feels like heaven.
If this is a failed game, then I wish more devs would fail this bad.
If this is a backward step from AC1 (which I played for almost 2 years) then they can keep heading backwards as fast as they want.
It re-introduces an element to MMO gaming combat that we havnt seen since the days of UO year 1. This rare element is something that has been completely lost since EQ1 refined a playstyle that didnt require it.
This element is known as SKILL!!
Yes skill instead of pure math. Maybe thats why many poeple have trouble enjoying the game.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Well lets inject a little fact then shall we.
Turbine offered players what most of you say you want with AC2. Big expansive environment, crafting, city building, grinding in open areas etc etc etc... and all that good WoW type stuff. We all know what happened to AC2.
In many ways it would be fair to argue that devs cant win with some people. Turbine obviously licked their wounds after AC2 and thought "ok WoW has proven that you dont need depth, complexity, immediate content, detailed crafting systems or any of that stuff to be successful". "We have a name here with D&D and we can either try and copy WoW and AC2's model, or we can try as hard as we can to strike a balance between PnP D&D and MMO gaming".
Imho they got it about as perfectly right as they possibly could. Is the game for everyone ? HELL NO. Is the game enjoyble for those that really GET what Turbine is trying to achieve, HELL YES!
I almost cancelled my pre-order after reading the official forums for weeks before my copy arrived as the Oz release was 2 weeks late, so I got to read LOTS of very negative stuff all from players with the same gripes.
Well Im so glad I didnt listen to them because this game just happens to suit me down to the ground. I only have 3-5 hours per day MAX between about 7pm and midnight when I get home from work to play these days. My days of 14 hour sessions in EQ1 are long gone. I have a fulltime job a mortgage and a family so D&D just hits the nail right on the head for me. I can log in, have a good adventure with no "work/grind" like every other MMO on the market you want to name. I play, I enjoy, I log out, feels like heaven.
If this is a failed game, then I wish more devs would fail this bad.
If this is a backward step from AC1 (which I played for almost 2 years) then they can keep heading backwards as fast as they want.
It re-introduces an element to MMO gaming combat that we havnt seen since the days of UO year 1. This rare element is something that has been completely lost since EQ1 refined a playstyle that didnt require it.
This element is known as SKILL!!
Yes skill instead of pure math. Maybe thats why many poeple have trouble enjoying the game.
OK, quick question here.... Define skill as used in DDO?
So what you are really saying is that you really do need coordination to be successful in DDO?
Not really like the PnP game is it? More like an RTS game.
I am not saying it is wrong... Just want to clarify things here.
IMO this is not really like the PnP game. Yes it does use, basically, the DnD ruleset. But the essence of what I think of PnP DnD is just not there.
Yes my description was a bit glib I know... sorry just trying to make a point.
Yes it has some elements in common with FPS/RTS thats for sure but what Im trying to say is that :
In 99% of current MMO's its all math and turn based. You have your attack some numbers are crunched and you deliver some damage. The enemy attacks, numbers are crunched, you take damage. Rinse repeat until the one with the best numbers wins. If you find youself on 1hp with only a standard attck defend round in front of you your DEAD!
In DDO if you find youself on 1hp with a standard attack round to go, you can LIVE and more than that you can WIN! IF you play your cards right and block or dodge when you can and get in a hit when you can. In this way if you play carefully and thoughtfully and maximise the strengths of your character and exploit the weaknesses of your opponent you can fight enemies that have even HP and stats to you and through your SKILL, you can win without even taking a hit. If you screw up you can pay badly, so it comes down to your tactics, stratgey and skill much more than it does to your numbers.
This was also how PnP D&D was in my memory. If everything went to plan you could save a battle from 1hp. If it went badly from the start you can die quickly against an opponent that was no stronger than you.
It really needs to be experienced to be appreciated how well they have done the combat. When you trow in more variables like potions and feats it becomes your skills vs the AI skills rather than just a pure math battle. Planning and combat tactics will overcome much more powerful foes than just relying on your uber sword and uber armour and rushing in headlong. If you get it wrong you can lose to a much weaker opponent.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Well what I was saying is that in D&D you can win from 1hp even if the mob has full HP. You cant possibly do that in other MMOs unless there is some completely bizarre occurance, thats just a fact.
Other MMOs are turn based whether you realise it or not. They are based around a system where you take turns attacking. Many of them do a very good job of creating a simulation that makes it seem like thats not happening like CoH/CoV for instance. Others dont even try and hide it... Like EQ and WoW.
But in the end as you so rightly point out... its all opions at the end of the day.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Here is a thought for you: If it were possible to play PnP DnD in real time would it be better than turn based?
PnP DnD is not a set of rules. It's what you make of it.
Now, follow this link http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_mud.html I think this is what you want and not a live action computer game.
=_#~
This has taken some strange turn, i did not criticse the combat system for i never played this game, pnp dnd was pretty much turn based, i understand that developpers want it a little more alive by bring action but i still think the best combat system is jedi knight outcast like but its pretty impossible to do in a mmorpg due to lag problem. What i am saying, is that developper didnt take a strong step out to say wow this is a good game with a strong content and it should by pretty easy with the back up of TSR/Wizard of the coast in this team or maybe all developper are taken in lotr online. I dont know if neverwinter 2 will have multiplayer support but im thinking ill go play nv2 before ddo.
Wow refugee it dont understand your reply, are you trying to flame me or are you trolling o.0
Here is a thought for you: If it were possible to play PnP DnD in real time would it be better than turn based?
In one word... NO!
PnP DnD is not a set of rules. It's what you make of it.
Exactly, and DDO is not PnP DnD.
Now, follow this link http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_mud.html I think this is what you want and not a live action computer game.
That's pretty lame response Ian.
a. You will never know wether real time PnP DnD would be better because it's not possible. And were it possible would PnP be just like DDO?
b. Are you saying your view of DnD is the only addmissible interpretation? Grow up man. DnD is what you make of it and Turbine decided to interpret it as a world of dungeon crawling adventure.
Here is a thought for you: If it were possible to play PnP DnD in real time would it be better than turn based?
In one word... NO!
PnP DnD is not a set of rules. It's what you make of it.
Exactly, and DDO is not PnP DnD.
Now, follow this link http://www.dndadventure.com/dnda_mud.html I think this is what you want and not a live action computer game.
That's pretty lame response Ian.
a. You will never know wether real time PnP DnD would be better because it's not possible. And were it possible would PnP be just like DDO?
b. Are you saying your view of DnD is the only addmissible interpretation? Grow up man. DnD is what you make of it and Turbine decided to interpret it as a world of dungeon crawling adventure.
OK Burrek, let me go into a little more depth for you...
You are right, it is impossible to play PnP DnD in real time... Unless you are talking about sitting around a table and playing a real game of PnP DnD. Duh! It is Pen and Paper... So my short answer NO! If it were possible...
Again My statement was short and to the popint... DDO is not PnP DnD.
How are either of those two answers lame?
Your questions are the lame things... It is not possible... That is like saying if the sun would rise tomorrow morning from the west instead onf the east, would thing be different... We will never know. But I would be willing to bet that if the sun did rise in the west, things would be different. But you cannot act out a PnP game... That is why it is called Pen and Paper... There are all forms of DnD, but PnP is PnP...
I am giving my opinion... The only opinion I am qualified to give... Just like everyone esle... You cannot speak for anyone else, just yourself. And I am saying that DDO in no where near like the PnP DnD game. MY opinion... If you think different... Good for you... It is still only YOUR opinion.
Turbine also changed many rules and threw out some too. For what ever reason, they changed things. It is still their idea of what DnD is/should be. It is not gospel just because they have the backing of WotC.
You are the one who needs to grow up by the way...
Ian man,
If all your saying is that DDO is not PnP then I have to agree since it's a computer game and you do not need pen and paper to play it.
If, on the other hand, your saying that DDO is not DnD because you think it does not follow in the spirit of DnD than I'm going to have to stick with my comment about "growing up." Just because it does not feel the same to you it does not mean it is an invalid interpretation. Saying it's my opinion and my opinion is better because in my opinion my opinion is better does not make for a good argument.
I'm trying to point out that making statments like "DDO is not DnD" is BS since you are in no way qualified to make such statments. Your idea of what DnD should be has no baring on others, Turbine, or WotC.
P.S. Didn't you say some time ago your not going to argue about DDO any more?
Lets start from the end and work backwards this time... I did not say I would not argue DDO anymore... What I said was that I quit DDO and would probably not follow this forum much... But sometime you just have to point things out to others...
Saying that "DDo is not DnD" Is not BS... I am expertly qualified to make that statement since that is "my" opinion. You are right that my opinion has no bearing on others... Just as your opinon has no bearing on me...
Yes, I am saying that DDO does not follow the spirit of DnD... That is my opinion, and I have every right to make that statement, it is my opinion. You don't really believe that I should take other peoples opinion of this game and make them mine do you?
If it is invalid in my opinion, then it is invalid as far as I am concerned... You may feel different, and that is your right. Just don't tell me my opinion is invalid because you do not agree.
I never said that anyones opinion is better than anyone elses...
I have said all along that DDO is not PnP DnD... It is a so called MMOG, that, in my opinion, fails to capture the spirit of the PnP game.