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Islamic countries, no jew nor christain allowed
billie
Member UncommonPosts: 400
You may have noticed lately in newly liberated Islamic country Afganistan a moslem man that converted to christanity is under a death sentence and due to international (read US) pressure had the case dismissed, but the law still is on their books convert & die (btw that happens to be the only way an 'infidel' can avoid death from conquering moslems, convert to islam or die. Guess it goes the other way to renounce islam and die too.) This christain was turned in by his x wife and arrested for having a bible.
Other islamic countries have stringent limitations against jews and christains entering their countries, in fact is is a death sentence for a jew to get within 15 or 20 miles of Mecca, the rock place.
NOTICE it is also against the law to build non-islamic churches.
Religious tolerance, yea they certainly are buying that in sudan/nigeria, Israel, saudi arabia, Kosovo, iran, mindanao, Kashmir, Ethiopia, Uzbekistan. Why is it ignored world wide the ongoing islamic combat against christains to take over those once christain majority countries and move them into the islamic UN voting block?
Comments
Islam seems to be reaching the point Christianity hit at the end of the dark ages/early middle ages. Religious authorities wield the power in those nations right now, and thats never a good thing.
I can, honestly, see this the current middle east tensions breaking out into full scale crusade type religous war. Only this will go far further than the holy lands. I might just be a little over pessimistic though.
i'd say this is comparable to what hitler did. these people are no better than nazi's, infact they are probably worse in many respects (at least the nazi's had a game plan, to take over the world, these extremists just wanna kill everyone).
half of me thinks something should be done about it, and we should probably go to war with these islamic extremists and terminate them once and forall. the other half of me thinks why should we bother? we'd just be losing our own decent soldiers to sort out another countries problems. perhaps we should just let them stew in their own juices until they kill eachother. i feel its almost a waste of mental power even thinking about people like this, let alone acting against them. they are an utter waste of space, a waste of human life and should quite frankly not exist.
don't get me wrong here, i'm not talking about 'all' muslims, i'm talking about extremists that kill for silly reasons like 'my god told me to!'.
This is sad. Sad as it always is when you talk about religions.
Islamic nations where the best in the world in terms of science and knowledge. Untill 500 years ago. When Europe embrased science and got a rapid growth. Islamic nation kept the religion as their major guidance.
This made Europe go from religion countries with executions, witch burning, wars and so on to what we have today. But Islam stayed under the control of religious people. Wich hindered it's growth and made it what it is today.
Again religion shows that it's not a keeper.
But what Hohbein says in no way a solution. It's just playing it right into the hands of the religious leaders. Americans wondering why the hatred keeps growing? Maybe it has to do with the fact that you carpet bomb civilians. It's very simple for a imam to brainwash a boy that just lost his entire family in a american bombing raid.
Talk is the only way it can be solved. These people need to know that it doesn't have to be like that. When they get to know it they can make a choice.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
i completely agree that the hatred toward the western world is mostly our own fault. however, i don't agree that we could simply 'talk it out' with them. these people are extremists to the extreme, they dont want to stop until every last westerner is either dead or a muslim.... trying to explain and difuse the situation simply won't work with people like this.
its very much in the same line as the state of britains police force at the moment. the police have no power, and therefore have to basically try to 'pursuade' criminals through power of speech not to commit crime, rather than giving them a damn good beating to warn them. it doesnt, and will never work.
but tbh i think the true evil in the world really is america and most of the western world. as much as i hate to admit it (i've always been a very pro west person), i'm comming to realise that the western world really is a money, power and war hungry part of the world. sure the east are seen as more barbaric, but this is simply because they do things like blow up bus's of innocent people then laugh about it. the west on the other hand do pretty similar things (carpet bombing civilians) but then claim it never happened, which in turn makes us look like the more morally correct side.
the west push the east into doing most of the terrible things they do. i mean, we complain about the suicide bombs in iraq and how its barbaric and disgusting, but if it hadn't been for the west there would be no suicide bombs in iraq.
i find it interesting that the US takes a whole lot of shit for our treatment of prisoners of war, terrorists, and overall horrible people in places like guantamo bay and similar places.
but the UN doesn't even mention how women are treated in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.
Which is a definite violation of the UN's declaration of human rights.
But the US comes under heavy fire for treating terrorists wrong(im not supporting torture), where as other countries can flog, perform horribly deforming surgeries on women to make them barren(talking to certain places like afghanistan, kill, and torture women for nothing more then talking to someone, or their headgarmets falling off, or even them being raped.
and the worst part is shit like this happens in certain parts of france, not "legally" but their is almost no legal protection for women in this situation.
The US has its problems, but the majority of the world is more racist, cruel and unusual in punishments, and corrupt governments.
Hell i would even go for we are the most morally responsible leading world power in history. No other nation has had our influence economically, politically, or militarily. Without having policies allowing torture of civilians, policies that involve kidnapping of other countries non military personel and using them on boats(yes im talking to you england), or just flat out killing people in other nations because their "infidiels, heathens, or savages"
these countries upset me greatly, i am a big fan of a overthrow of their governments through covert action.
i think someone needs to step up and stop the attrocities these people commit before they get any more powerful.
Obviously the UN is just as degenerate as the league of nations, and the US isnt perfect in stepping up(i hate you woodrow wilson), but we are superior in this way to most nations that have ever existed.
apathy is what is killing the world, and we are letting it happen.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Hohbein;
Read up on a few things to actually understand the situation.
A. The Crusades: all of them, especially the changing "Moorish" and Christian interactions, this political situation is almost ancient now.
B. Roman Vs Visigoths: They are why the "Western Civilization" had a blunt and rapid change.
C. Read some foreign news about laws other countries hate that the US has: Why? most likely you will not agree with them all. But wait! Does that mean just because a country has a law that the populas may not agree? How odd...
Suddenly political mores and goals shift.
I can't count how many times I've heard conservative christians in America state that there is no seperation of church and state in our Constitution. It seems that their idea of politics is pushing for the same type of theocratic rule over here too.
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Government in all forms is wrong. Peace & Anarchy!
Make a difference!
Ofcourse you can't talk with the extremists. But the extremists need the people to gain power, if you can talk to the people and turn them away from the extremists. Without followers the extremists are nothing. After that it would be easy to remove them and put them in jail, court and give them their punishment. The majority of the islamic people are people just like ourselfs that just want to live their own life. They shouldn't be victims of actions against the extremists. The best would be if you could get the people in these countries to take a stand against the extremists themselfs.
I don't believe there is 1 sole evil nations or 2 in the world. It's 2 different ways of life that collide. We need to learn that it isn't our way that is the correct way. Both ways have their benefits and drawbacks. But we can't keep forcing our way on other people. We can inform other people of our way, but in the end we should people decide for themselfs. If someone chooses a religious life it's ok for me and I respect that. Unless it's a religious way that harms other people. We in the western world have to accept that other people don't want the live "the american dream" as long as it's not violations of international laws.
Vergeltung:
Just because the UN doesn't bomb countries in the name of women rights, doesn't mean they don't do anything. They do a great deal of work regarding this subject.
They have projects with education for women. The lack of education is 1 of the main reasons that these women are still being threated like this. Alot of young girls in these countries will grow up knowing about these problems, because of the UN and it's divisions like Unicef.
That was a very ignorant comment. Wich offended me very much and I'm sure many others. That is completely wrong!
What I dont understand is why any of the western countries involved in Afgahnistan thought they could change the place. Everyone who has gone in there since Alexander the great has been sent out with a bloody nose and their tail between thier legs eventually and this will not be any different.
Hamed Karhzi is just a tool and none of the population at large respect him. As soon as western troops leave the taliban will be straight back in power and it will be business as usual.
The only way to demonstrate the desireability of your own society is to live it. Trying to force it on other countries will never work.
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
The Nazis were pretty bad guys, but we defeated them and Germany is a top notch country today. The Germans had good base values to fall back on after getting their face kicked in, Christianity. Afghanistan doesnt have good base values to fall back on, its as simple as that.
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"Why would I trade one tyrant a thousand miles away, for a thousand tyrants, one mile away." - The Patriot
That quote was when the Protagonist(played by Mel Gibson), spoke about the independence of the colonies from British rule.
Now by all means am I saying that during the drafting of the declaration of independence, and the constitution, was the government back then dictatorial. To the contrary.
What I am saying. So far what an elected government, democrasy or otherwise, has proven, all the way back to Abe Lincoln. Is that it is an elected Despotism.
You're still a slave. You can now just cast one vote for who your slaver will be.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
I guess (without sounding like Im USA bashing) that it begs the question of the 1991 Iraq war then doest it ? I mean even if you want to respond with the obvious and logical answer that it was to protect Kuwait, then why not apply the same logic to China's invasion of Tibet ? Perhaps because Tibet has no strategic importance, no oil and is not anywhere near Israel. But thats just my opinion.
It also makes you wonder about things like the invasion of the Philipines in the 1890's in the US/Spanish war. Spain did not attack the US on its own soil to spark that conflict. The initial battle was as a result of conflict over ownership of a nation (Cuba) that belonged to neither country, but was seen by both as their right of conquest due to their military power.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/1898/
All major nations from time to time have acted in a beligerant and imperialistic fashion. To condense the current middle east situation down to US retaliation over 9/11 is a gross over simplification of the situation that adds nothing to this debate.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Arab TV 911 conspiracy theories
Brief on islamism radical Islam and it's development in the modern world. Radical islam authorizing genocidal murder, a jihad against infidels.
Shar'ia law in support of wife beating to cause her emotional pain and punish a rebellious wife.
Saudi TV on The West's Conflict With Islam & Muslims is Eternal authorized by royal family.
Israel vs hammas no concessions and Palestine Means Palestine in its Entirety From the (Mediterranean) Sea to the (Jordan) River
Iran, a new fatwa States That Religious Law Does Not Forbid Use of Nuclear Weapons . Well i guess they really mean they want their french supplied breeder reactors for just electricity, no way they would be used to enrich uranium.
Meanwhile in the US people are doing their best to totally remove G from even being mentioned, much less following His Laws and Commandments.
Realistically from a satanist pov the fittest must survive, if it feels good do it, might makes right.
Not untill over 80 % of mankind is exterminated mentioned in Armagedon, will a new world wide Theocracy become the norm, when Yeshua returns for the second time... look out 2012-13.
btw, the US carpet bombing ( ? peace-time civilians, ) when did that happen, the arab & african "surgeries" on women were not to make them barren, it was to remove certain anatomy to prevent female pleasure in the sex act. Their opinion for women is FOR them to produce children, they just are not supposed to enjoy the getting pregnet.
If, big IF the arabs & persians are revolting against colonialism, then their argument is against britan, france, germany, portugal and spain; not the US.
And the bad guy hitler thing... puting it to scale, for every ONE murdered/exterminated of his domestic civilian population, stalin murdered 6 and mao murdered 17. So what hitler did was VERY small compared to true mass murderers of un armed civilian populations !!
Hence why it is so important in the US for it's civilians having the right to bear arms.
Wow nice wide ranging discussion here considering the OT
Im a strong advocate of the right to bear arms simply on the basis of freedom of choice.
Its fine to say that "we have law enforcement agencies so individuals dont need guns". But the fact is that the cops cant appear from the ether when your home gets invaded and even though 99% of people may be incapable of shooting someone when it comes to the crunch. What I will always argue for is their right to choose to defend themselves and their homes and families anyway they see fit.
If any government is going to argue that citizens dont need weapons then they better have an ironclad guarantee about how they intend to protect them from criminals. As well know they cant give that guarantee, so the whole argument for not having weapons is nonsense.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
A) The Nazis did not make up a very small percentage of the germany army or populace. The Nazis made a good percentage, but not a majority, I'd say about 40%.
What is "IS"?
I guess (without sounding like Im USA bashing) that it begs the question of the 1991 Iraq war then doest it ? I mean even if you want to respond with the obvious and logical answer that it was to protect Kuwait, then why not apply the same logic to China's invasion of Tibet ? Perhaps because Tibet has no strategic importance, no oil and is not anywhere near Israel. But thats just my opinion.
It also makes you wonder about things like the invasion of the Philipines in the 1890's in the US/Spanish war. Spain did not attack the US on its own soil to spark that conflict. The initial battle was as a result of conflict over ownership of a nation (Cuba) that belonged to neither country, but was seen by both as their right of conquest due to their military power.
http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/1898/
All major nations from time to time have acted in a beligerant and imperialistic fashion. To condense the current middle east situation down to US retaliation over 9/11 is a gross over simplification of the situation that adds nothing to this debate.
Did you just go way back to the 1890's? Whoah, it looks like you just did. Wow.
In a mocking voice, "Hey what do those IMPERIAL British think they are doing free'ing Kuwait, yeah yeah yeah monkeys, shouldnt they be resecuring their imperial province?"
Wow nice wide ranging discussion here considering the OT
...
Alright lets not get crazy here.
The Quran doesn't promote more violence than the Bible etc. You should know that. If you think that islam is a extreme religion you are way off. Maybe you should read up on it? No religion in the world today promotes violence. It's the insane people that gain power through religion that mess it all up.
Yes most muslims are like us. They wake up in the morning, go to work/school, pray, eat and go to bed again. They have no desire to hurt people. It's the minority that is violent and extreme. Just as it's the minority of the western people that are violent and extreme.
In the muslim countries you have twisted people that have gained power and control of the people. They fire up under the hatred certain western actions create. It's brainwashing, plain and simple. And it happens mainly because people in these countries are undereducated. They don't know that it can be different. They don't know much of what is beyond their countries borders. Remember that can't just turn on the Tv, or check the internet for facts like we do. Hell many can't even read. That is why proper education for them is so important. Just look at all the muslims that have a high education, take a stand against the religious leaders. Many women too. Fatima Mernissi Is one of them. It's important to give these people the knowledge that it doesn't have to be like that. Education won't be quick, but it will give results. Way better than keeping up the bombing.
I'm not a big fan of religions, so this isn't a "Oh Islam is so great post" like that other guy was posting here.
But it's important to remember that it's mostly because of twisted people in the wrong places we have a situations like this.
Originally posted by Phoenixs
The Quran doesn't promote more violence than the Bible etc.
Yes it does. The Quran clearly states that infidels most be killed. It states that if you die in the "defense" of faith, you will be rewarded with 70 virgins, and so on. The Bible doesn't state such things. There's a lot of "violence" in the bible, but one of the most important things to a christian is charity.
You should know that. If you think that islam is a extreme religion you are way off. Maybe you should read up on it? No religion in the world today promotes violence. It's the insane people that gain power through religion that mess it all up.
You're way off. I don't see how you can ignore the clearly writings in the Quran backing my arguments.
[i]Yes most muslims are like us. They wake up in the morning, go to work/school, pray, eat and go to bed again. They have no desire to hurt people. [b]It's the minority that is violent and extreme. Just as it's the minority of the western people that are violent and extreme.[/i]
In 2001, 47% of all youth crimes were by immigrants(mostly people from the middle east). in 2001 about 9.5 % of the inhabitants of denmark is immigrants. So they are between 9 and 10 times as criminal as Danes. Don't tell me we are as violent as they are since that's plain wrong. That's a fact.
In the muslim countries you have twisted people that have gained power and control of the people. They fire up under the hatred certain western actions create. It's brainwashing, plain and simple. And it happens mainly because people in these countries are undereducated. They don't know that it can be different. They don't know much of what is beyond their countries borders. Remember that can't just turn on the Tv, or check the internet for facts like we do. Hell many can't even read. That is why proper education for them is so important. Just look at all the muslims that have a high education, take a stand against the religious leaders. Many women too. Fatima Mernissi Is one of them. It's important to give these people the knowledge that it doesn't have to be like that. Education won't be quick, but it will give results. Way better than keeping up the bombing.
Ok. The I suggest you go down there and help their country, because they so badly want it. But mind your throat... I've heard some nasty stories of throats and knives...
I'm not a big fan of religions, so this isn't a "Oh Islam is so great post" like that other guy was posting here.
But it's important to remember that it's mostly because of twisted people in the wrong places we have a situations like this.[/quote]
I seriously don't care what they do to each other. But when they kill innocent people, they make my blood boil.