Sorry, but I have to disagree to BOTH Frank and Garret. IMVHO what attracte me in a game is the way between. Being focussed on the end is a sure way to ruin the game experience, both in solo games and MMO. Sure, and epic story end is cool, and great items are too. But I have played many, many games with simle ends but a very immersive, long, interesting way between.
The best MMO for me was the old SWG, because it was not focussed on levelling or reaching some high end. It was, at that old time, the only MMO I ever saw with a real in-game community worth that name. Compare any other MMO today you only see people hurry into the next city to sell their loot, but a new sword or spell and hurry back to the next quest/dungeon. EQ2 was a bane in that matter. There was no live in the cities of Freeport and Qeynos at all! I weeped, remembering all the big cantina meetings, the bustling city life in the biug SWG cities I had once known comparing it to the empty and dead MMO worlds of now.
MMOs now are far too focussed in combat with a little, downgraded fast-crafting. The entire social aspect, the housing, player cities, the entertainer groups, image designer tents full of customers, all those WOW-kids cant imagine what an MMO can be! I played quite a lot of MMOs a long time, but there was none like a real 2nd world like the old SWG was. Not because it was Star Wars, but it was the one and only NOT focussed in reaching some end, but on the way. I really hate to bring such quotes, as they are said a thousand times, but the way is really the goal, as that ancient saying goes, or so.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
End-game ? Why ? I mean we're speaking of a virtual world, so why should there be some end to it ?
For me most current MMOs are too focused on one aspect (PvP, PvE, Crafting) and lack a real world feeling. Most of them are static and give you the same 90% content forever.
While UO had it right somehow, it lacked some quest content and the few things that were added recently won't really help in that part. Instancing may be fun and add some sense of reality (check DDO deisign of dungeon) but in the end what is it worth if things never -change-.
If game designers put some time in the story why not retire some old quest and put in some new content after a time. I mean just look at newbie zone: how many low level critters have been hunt without never ending their infestation ?
Another idea would be to allow some spot where all the "useless" raw crafting materials could be dumped to "raise" an outpost/hamlet and even later city. Then let it be raided by random monster atatcks and classic PvP raids.
Give player something -else- to do beyond leveling. Why not creating a -real- economy with town having different basic/manufactured materials/prices creating a real demand. Create a spot near a NPC crafter where players can dump raw materials to "upgrade" his selling list.
Why not create some toolkit instances where players could design encounters with simple scripts and text. Maybe you could even put in the chest loot table some item you just crafted. Imagine how fun it would be ?
If war/conflict is part of the world why not create -real- contested territories where city/ressource nodes raids would impact on the rest of the realms economy (better/worse content from NPC vendors or inflated prices, less ressources from aligned nodes if those in contested territories are not held by your faction etc...)
Why not retire "main" character NPCs and allow the charcter to chose the replacement by supporting a faction with temporary quests and PvP events ?
Give us some real story to discover and roll on with the -changes-.
Persistent is not -STATIC- ! So there should be no End-Game but maybe, to continue the TV comparasion a regular end season / new season.
Originally posted by Amaranthar These are supposed to be persistent worlds. Designing one with a play style that brings you to an "end game" is the first mistake.
Developers would do well to memorise this statement.
The answer? Simple. Minimal character investment. Permadeath. Vast & Complex game world. Ownage (players/guilds can own houses/towns). Felxible tools that gamers can use to creat their own quests/culture/rules. CHOICE.
Achieve this and you will never need to add "content". Except perhaps new graphics.
Comments
Sorry, but I have to disagree to BOTH Frank and Garret. IMVHO what attracte me in a game is the way between. Being focussed on the end is a sure way to ruin the game experience, both in solo games and MMO. Sure, and epic story end is cool, and great items are too. But I have played many, many games with simle ends but a very immersive, long, interesting way between.
The best MMO for me was the old SWG, because it was not focussed on levelling or reaching some high end. It was, at that old time, the only MMO I ever saw with a real in-game community worth that name. Compare any other MMO today you only see people hurry into the next city to sell their loot, but a new sword or spell and hurry back to the next quest/dungeon. EQ2 was a bane in that matter. There was no live in the cities of Freeport and Qeynos at all! I weeped, remembering all the big cantina meetings, the bustling city life in the biug SWG cities I had once known comparing it to the empty and dead MMO worlds of now.
MMOs now are far too focussed in combat with a little, downgraded fast-crafting. The entire social aspect, the housing, player cities, the entertainer groups, image designer tents full of customers, all those WOW-kids cant imagine what an MMO can be! I played quite a lot of MMOs a long time, but there was none like a real 2nd world like the old SWG was. Not because it was Star Wars, but it was the one and only NOT focussed in reaching some end, but on the way. I really hate to bring such quotes, as they are said a thousand times, but the way is really the goal, as that ancient saying goes, or so.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
For me most current MMOs are too focused on one aspect (PvP, PvE, Crafting) and lack a real world feeling. Most of them are static and give you the same 90% content forever.
While UO had it right somehow, it lacked some quest content and the few things that were added recently won't really help in that part. Instancing may be fun and add some sense of reality (check DDO deisign of dungeon) but in the end what is it worth if things never -change-.
If game designers put some time in the story why not retire some old quest and put in some new content after a time. I mean just look at newbie zone: how many low level critters have been hunt without never ending their infestation ?
Another idea would be to allow some spot where all the "useless" raw crafting materials could be dumped to "raise" an outpost/hamlet and even later city. Then let it be raided by random monster atatcks and classic PvP raids.
Give player something -else- to do beyond leveling. Why not creating a -real- economy with town having different basic/manufactured materials/prices creating a real demand. Create a spot near a NPC crafter where players can dump raw materials to "upgrade" his selling list.
Why not create some toolkit instances where players could design encounters with simple scripts and text. Maybe you could even put in the chest loot table some item you just crafted. Imagine how fun it would be ?
If war/conflict is part of the world why not create -real- contested territories where city/ressource nodes raids would impact on the rest of the realms economy (better/worse content from NPC vendors or inflated prices, less ressources from aligned nodes if those in contested territories are not held by your faction etc...)
Why not retire "main" character NPCs and allow the charcter to chose the replacement by supporting a faction with temporary quests and PvP events ?
Give us some real story to discover and roll on with the -changes-.
Persistent is not -STATIC- ! So there should be no End-Game but maybe, to continue the TV comparasion a regular end season / new season.
Originally posted by Amaranthar
These are supposed to be persistent worlds. Designing one with a play style that brings you to an "end game" is the first mistake.
Developers would do well to memorise this statement.
The answer? Simple. Minimal character investment. Permadeath. Vast & Complex game world. Ownage (players/guilds can own houses/towns). Felxible tools that gamers can use to creat their own quests/culture/rules. CHOICE.
Achieve this and you will never need to add "content". Except perhaps new graphics.