Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Novaseeker So when you decide to invest your time in an MMO in part it should be based on assessment of the company who runs it as well and how devoted they are to the game.
Too much work, and I don't have ESP.
I've seen CCP too. I trust Oveur just a tad more than I trust SOE. But I still don't trust them to do the right thing. All they seem to care about is ensuring that the old customers have a steady supply of new customers that kowtow to them.
If you are a three year veteran, they'll look the other way when you grief, skew the system so that you'll always have the advantage, and give new players no retreat from the twinks who try to run things.
If you are new, they'll make sure they squeeze some money out of you training skills, give you no hope of an endgame without a vet's permission, and give you no server to retreat to if the players make the game unbearable. EVE is a "members only" club to those on the outside. But to those on the inside, it seems great. No wonder it is, when the entire game is geared around making the vets feel important, at the expense of the n00bs.
When was the last time you saw a new EVE chronicle? Its been awhile for me, and I can tell you why. They want to sell you EON. Its just an expansion in a different way. The stuff I usually get for free, like interviews, sneak peaks, player content, and lore is stuff I have to pay for in EVE today.
If I want to do research into a company, it will probably not be so I can spend money, but rather, make money.
If I am expected to do research, invest, and take risks, then they can at least treat me like an investor, and give me money, rather than have me give it out.
You see man, in that one statement of, "investing your time in an MMO requires an assessment of the company," shows right there why 80% of the people Perpetual surveyed are weary about subs, and MMOs. Its too uncertain, and requires too much of a "leap of faith," when all they want is to have a little fun for their money.
1. I don't have a problem with gaming companies making money. It's a good thing. Compared to other gaming companies, CCP is very fair. The expansions are free, there is great communication between the devs and the player community, and they are completely dedicated to EVE as a game ... it's their baby. I don't dislike them because they have a profit motive, however.
2. It's not true that EVE is skewed towards the "vets". Many of the people who play in alliances and access the "end game" content (which is essentially alliance PvP in 0.0 space) are not "vets", and have been playing for 6 months or less. Can they do this alone? No. But the "vets" can't do it alone either ... they also need the support of corps. EVE is a dangerous world, and you need to group up with other people to achieve things and really access the fullness of the end game, and that applies to "vets" and n00bs as well. If you like to play games mostly in solo mode, then EVE will get very frustrating and boring, I agree. But that isn't limited to n00bs.
3. People are on the "outside" by their own choosing. Joining a corp is not hard. Many corps are recruiting all the time. The key is, if you want to be a completely independent player without any corp affiliation, then EVE will be very hard and it will be hard to access the "end game". But that's also the case for "vets". It's not a case of n00b vs. "vets" but more a case of who is actually willing to join a corp and participate in what it is doing as compared with who isn't.
4. E-ON? Not really needed. The main information about the expansions and upcoming stuff is all available in the copious devblogs available at the official website ... E-ON is simply a glossy magazine for people who want to spend their money on it. No "critical" information is contained in E-ON that isn't accessible anywhere else on the website, and if you like stories there are scads of well written stories in the library on the website. And, there have been 2 official chronicles, as well as the recent novella "Theodicy", published on the official website in the last several months, one in fact just a month or so ago.
4. If you don't want to either (a) take a risk or (b) research the company and its commitment before making a commitment of your own, then you should avoid MMOs. I presume that's what you've decided to do, and that's fine. As for me, I'm quite happy with CCP and EVE, so I see no reason to bash all MMOs at all, and I'm also quite happy to distinguish between different gaming companies and different approaches to running a game, and choose how to spend my entertainment dollars more carefully.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Beatnik59 Originally posted by Novaseeker So when you decide to invest your time in an MMO in part it should be based on assessment of the company who runs it as well and how devoted they are to the game.
Too much work, and I don't have ESP.
I've seen CCP too. I trust Oveur just a tad more than I trust SOE. But I still don't trust them to do the right thing. All they seem to care about is ensuring that the old customers have a steady supply of new customers that kowtow to them.
If you are a three year veteran, they'll look the other way when you grief, skew the system so that you'll always have the advantage, and give new players no retreat from the twinks who try to run things.
If you are new, they'll make sure they squeeze some money out of you training skills, give you no hope of an endgame without a vet's permission, and give you no server to retreat to if the players make the game unbearable. EVE is a "members only" club to those on the outside. But to those on the inside, it seems great. No wonder it is, when the entire game is geared around making the vets feel important, at the expense of the n00bs.
When was the last time you saw a new EVE chronicle? Its been awhile for me, and I can tell you why. They want to sell you EON. Its just an expansion in a different way. The stuff I usually get for free, like interviews, sneak peaks, player content, and lore is stuff I have to pay for in EVE today.
If I want to do research into a company, it will probably not be so I can spend money, but rather, make money.
If I am expected to do research, invest, and take risks, then they can at least treat me like an investor, and give me money, rather than have me give it out.
You see man, in that one statement of, "investing your time in an MMO requires an assessment of the company," shows right there why 80% of the people Perpetual surveyed are weary about subs, and MMOs. Its too uncertain, and requires too much of a "leap of faith," when all they want is to have a little fun for their money.
1. I don't have a problem with gaming companies making money. It's a good thing. Compared to other gaming companies, CCP is very fair. The expansions are free, there is great communication between the devs and the player community, and they are completely dedicated to EVE as a game ... it's their baby. I don't dislike them because they have a profit motive, however.
2. It's not true that EVE is skewed towards the "vets". Many of the people who play in alliances and access the "end game" content (which is essentially alliance PvP in 0.0 space) are not "vets", and have been playing for 6 months or less. Can they do this alone? No. But the "vets" can't do it alone either ... they also need the support of corps. EVE is a dangerous world, and you need to group up with other people to achieve things and really access the fullness of the end game, and that applies to "vets" and n00bs as well. If you like to play games mostly in solo mode, then EVE will get very frustrating and boring, I agree. But that isn't limited to n00bs.
3. People are on the "outside" by their own choosing. Joining a corp is not hard. Many corps are recruiting all the time. The key is, if you want to be a completely independent player without any corp affiliation, then EVE will be very hard and it will be hard to access the "end game". But that's also the case for "vets". It's not a case of n00b vs. "vets" but more a case of who is actually willing to join a corp and participate in what it is doing as compared with who isn't.
4. E-ON? Not really needed. The main information about the expansions and upcoming stuff is all available in the copious devblogs available at the official website ... E-ON is simply a glossy magazine for people who want to spend their money on it. No "critical" information is contained in E-ON that isn't accessible anywhere else on the website, and if you like stories there are scads of well written stories in the library on the website. And, there have been 2 official chronicles, as well as the recent novella "Theodicy", published on the official website in the last several months, one in fact just a month or so ago.
4. If you don't want to either (a) take a risk or (b) research the company and its commitment before making a commitment of your own, then you should avoid MMOs. I presume that's what you've decided to do, and that's fine. As for me, I'm quite happy with CCP and EVE, so I see no reason to bash all MMOs at all, and I'm also quite happy to distinguish between different gaming companies and different approaches to running a game, and choose how to spend my entertainment dollars more carefully.
There is no doubt CCP is a company and is after profit. The reason i kept mentioning CCP is not because they are great or 'perfect' but because they have a decent product and have sacrificed some of the greedy practices of other companies in hopes of making a name for themselves (e.i not charging for expansions). For the most part this has worked. I haven't played in a while but isn't EON also purchable with online currency?
I think Beatnik is right though with his final statement, however its suprising because purchasing a crappy mmorpg is only expensive in the long run, just like pruchasing a crappy single player game is a one time loss. I am guessing though that most people on these forums had their buddies burn them copies of single player games and therefore find the $50 a month and monthly fee alot greater investment then the $0.20 CD need to burn the single player game.
I think as time passes more people will take the approach to good consumer gaming like nova has, though i hope though it doesn't always lead to the fanbois some people tend to display. The benifit to more aware consumers is the mmo companies will produce more quality mmo at competitive rates and maintain a certian level of integrity to aquire a good name for themselves. Hopefully in the future companies that pull fast ones like Turbine did with AC2 or completely change gameplay like SOE did with SWG will literally wipe them off the competitive map on the market.
Comments
Too much work, and I don't have ESP.
I've seen CCP too. I trust Oveur just a tad more than I trust SOE. But I still don't trust them to do the right thing. All they seem to care about is ensuring that the old customers have a steady supply of new customers that kowtow to them.
If you are a three year veteran, they'll look the other way when you grief, skew the system so that you'll always have the advantage, and give new players no retreat from the twinks who try to run things.
If you are new, they'll make sure they squeeze some money out of you training skills, give you no hope of an endgame without a vet's permission, and give you no server to retreat to if the players make the game unbearable. EVE is a "members only" club to those on the outside. But to those on the inside, it seems great. No wonder it is, when the entire game is geared around making the vets feel important, at the expense of the n00bs.
When was the last time you saw a new EVE chronicle? Its been awhile for me, and I can tell you why. They want to sell you EON. Its just an expansion in a different way. The stuff I usually get for free, like interviews, sneak peaks, player content, and lore is stuff I have to pay for in EVE today.
If I want to do research into a company, it will probably not be so I can spend money, but rather, make money.
If I am expected to do research, invest, and take risks, then they can at least treat me like an investor, and give me money, rather than have me give it out.
You see man, in that one statement of, "investing your time in an MMO requires an assessment of the company," shows right there why 80% of the people Perpetual surveyed are weary about subs, and MMOs. Its too uncertain, and requires too much of a "leap of faith," when all they want is to have a little fun for their money.
1. I don't have a problem with gaming companies making money. It's a good thing. Compared to other gaming companies, CCP is very fair. The expansions are free, there is great communication between the devs and the player community, and they are completely dedicated to EVE as a game ... it's their baby. I don't dislike them because they have a profit motive, however.
2. It's not true that EVE is skewed towards the "vets". Many of the people who play in alliances and access the "end game" content (which is essentially alliance PvP in 0.0 space) are not "vets", and have been playing for 6 months or less. Can they do this alone? No. But the "vets" can't do it alone either ... they also need the support of corps. EVE is a dangerous world, and you need to group up with other people to achieve things and really access the fullness of the end game, and that applies to "vets" and n00bs as well. If you like to play games mostly in solo mode, then EVE will get very frustrating and boring, I agree. But that isn't limited to n00bs.
3. People are on the "outside" by their own choosing. Joining a corp is not hard. Many corps are recruiting all the time. The key is, if you want to be a completely independent player without any corp affiliation, then EVE will be very hard and it will be hard to access the "end game". But that's also the case for "vets". It's not a case of n00b vs. "vets" but more a case of who is actually willing to join a corp and participate in what it is doing as compared with who isn't.
4. E-ON? Not really needed. The main information about the expansions and upcoming stuff is all available in the copious devblogs available at the official website ... E-ON is simply a glossy magazine for people who want to spend their money on it. No "critical" information is contained in E-ON that isn't accessible anywhere else on the website, and if you like stories there are scads of well written stories in the library on the website. And, there have been 2 official chronicles, as well as the recent novella "Theodicy", published on the official website in the last several months, one in fact just a month or so ago.
4. If you don't want to either (a) take a risk or (b) research the company and its commitment before making a commitment of your own, then you should avoid MMOs. I presume that's what you've decided to do, and that's fine. As for me, I'm quite happy with CCP and EVE, so I see no reason to bash all MMOs at all, and I'm also quite happy to distinguish between different gaming companies and different approaches to running a game, and choose how to spend my entertainment dollars more carefully.
Too much work, and I don't have ESP.
I've seen CCP too. I trust Oveur just a tad more than I trust SOE. But I still don't trust them to do the right thing. All they seem to care about is ensuring that the old customers have a steady supply of new customers that kowtow to them.
If you are a three year veteran, they'll look the other way when you grief, skew the system so that you'll always have the advantage, and give new players no retreat from the twinks who try to run things.
If you are new, they'll make sure they squeeze some money out of you training skills, give you no hope of an endgame without a vet's permission, and give you no server to retreat to if the players make the game unbearable. EVE is a "members only" club to those on the outside. But to those on the inside, it seems great. No wonder it is, when the entire game is geared around making the vets feel important, at the expense of the n00bs.
When was the last time you saw a new EVE chronicle? Its been awhile for me, and I can tell you why. They want to sell you EON. Its just an expansion in a different way. The stuff I usually get for free, like interviews, sneak peaks, player content, and lore is stuff I have to pay for in EVE today.
If I want to do research into a company, it will probably not be so I can spend money, but rather, make money.
If I am expected to do research, invest, and take risks, then they can at least treat me like an investor, and give me money, rather than have me give it out.
You see man, in that one statement of, "investing your time in an MMO requires an assessment of the company," shows right there why 80% of the people Perpetual surveyed are weary about subs, and MMOs. Its too uncertain, and requires too much of a "leap of faith," when all they want is to have a little fun for their money.
1. I don't have a problem with gaming companies making money. It's a good thing. Compared to other gaming companies, CCP is very fair. The expansions are free, there is great communication between the devs and the player community, and they are completely dedicated to EVE as a game ... it's their baby. I don't dislike them because they have a profit motive, however.
2. It's not true that EVE is skewed towards the "vets". Many of the people who play in alliances and access the "end game" content (which is essentially alliance PvP in 0.0 space) are not "vets", and have been playing for 6 months or less. Can they do this alone? No. But the "vets" can't do it alone either ... they also need the support of corps. EVE is a dangerous world, and you need to group up with other people to achieve things and really access the fullness of the end game, and that applies to "vets" and n00bs as well. If you like to play games mostly in solo mode, then EVE will get very frustrating and boring, I agree. But that isn't limited to n00bs.
3. People are on the "outside" by their own choosing. Joining a corp is not hard. Many corps are recruiting all the time. The key is, if you want to be a completely independent player without any corp affiliation, then EVE will be very hard and it will be hard to access the "end game". But that's also the case for "vets". It's not a case of n00b vs. "vets" but more a case of who is actually willing to join a corp and participate in what it is doing as compared with who isn't.
4. E-ON? Not really needed. The main information about the expansions and upcoming stuff is all available in the copious devblogs available at the official website ... E-ON is simply a glossy magazine for people who want to spend their money on it. No "critical" information is contained in E-ON that isn't accessible anywhere else on the website, and if you like stories there are scads of well written stories in the library on the website. And, there have been 2 official chronicles, as well as the recent novella "Theodicy", published on the official website in the last several months, one in fact just a month or so ago.
4. If you don't want to either (a) take a risk or (b) research the company and its commitment before making a commitment of your own, then you should avoid MMOs. I presume that's what you've decided to do, and that's fine. As for me, I'm quite happy with CCP and EVE, so I see no reason to bash all MMOs at all, and I'm also quite happy to distinguish between different gaming companies and different approaches to running a game, and choose how to spend my entertainment dollars more carefully.
There is no doubt CCP is a company and is after profit. The reason i kept mentioning CCP is not because they are great or 'perfect' but because they have a decent product and have sacrificed some of the greedy practices of other companies in hopes of making a name for themselves (e.i not charging for expansions). For the most part this has worked. I haven't played in a while but isn't EON also purchable with online currency?
I think Beatnik is right though with his final statement, however its suprising because purchasing a crappy mmorpg is only expensive in the long run, just like pruchasing a crappy single player game is a one time loss. I am guessing though that most people on these forums had their buddies burn them copies of single player games and therefore find the $50 a month and monthly fee alot greater investment then the $0.20 CD need to burn the single player game.
I think as time passes more people will take the approach to good consumer gaming like nova has, though i hope though it doesn't always lead to the fanbois some people tend to display. The benifit to more aware consumers is the mmo companies will produce more quality mmo at competitive rates and maintain a certian level of integrity to aquire a good name for themselves. Hopefully in the future companies that pull fast ones like Turbine did with AC2 or completely change gameplay like SOE did with SWG will literally wipe them off the competitive map on the market.