you might want to actually learn what the term "MMORPG" means then, because if WoW isn't an MMORPG, then nothing is. oh dear, it has fast leveling + its from the creators of Diablo, so I don't consider it an mmo, but Diablo 3
WoW has all the character development of a ham sandwich.
You don't go to wow to roleplay. Only for fast pvp action, thats all its good for.
Thats why its such a smash hit. Because its NOT an mmorpg. People are realizing that mmorpg usually means "EQ clone and boring ass snoozefest."
Honestly I don't think the public has much patience for that nonsense, which is why mmorpg's are being redefined to include gw and wow.
GW gives people what they want. Combat.
Keep your character development, keep your fishing, keep your "how art thou?" fake british accent "roleplaying." All that stuff is lame.
These days I get more fun out of 30 minutes of counterstrike than I get out of 2 hours of "role playing."
They use psychological principles to keep people hooked on that garbage, and basically what you have at the end is a whole lot of waiting for nothing.
I'm sorry, sitting in AH comparing armor is like playing with barbie dolls. What a waste of time.
Anyway Imma go frag something.
WOW is an mmorpg, and thats a fact. Massive: You bet Multiplayer: yup Online: thats right Roleplaying: yes, your taking the role of your character Game: check
if you go for pvp in WoW only, uninstall it and go play a FPS.
I agree with 50% of the OP. Guild Wars is not an MMO. It is a multi-player game with a fancy chat room to form your groups. There is no persistence or world content at all.
Ok, that being said, I like Guild Wars for what it is. It is a well put together game and a terrific game to play. It has no monthly fees (shouldn't anyway) and has a lot to offer it's loyal fans.
But can it compare to a true MMO? Apples and Oranges. Not even a fair comparison. You would be better off comparing GW to DDO, and I think we all know which is far better
Originally posted by GameloadingWOW is an mmorpg, and thats a fact. Massive: You bet Multiplayer: yup Online: thats right Roleplaying: yes, your taking the role of your character Game: check
if you go for pvp in WoW only, uninstall it and go play a FPS.
Wow is not massive. 5 million plus players? Where are all of them? Oh, that's right. They're on about 500 different servers (there's roughly 200 for America and Europe alone, probably more). Then most of the level 60s spend their playing time (read, not chatting time) in instances, either for equipment or for PvP.
If I recall, severs have approximately 15,000 to 20,000 characters each. Characters, not players. The peak online is roughly 3,000. Take away the players that are in instances or waiting to get into instances, consider the fact that soulbound equipment limits the economy, and that the game is very attractive to the solo player up to level 60 and you realize that WoW doesn't support player interaction all too well, and isn't quite so massive.
I think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."
It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG.
You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG.
You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG.
As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG.
And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different.
Everyone is being mislead by the title and aren't getting the real message across. Is Guild Wars really an MMO and should it be listed here on MMORPG.com? This isn't really a discussion about whether the game sucks or not. IMO, this game doesn't really belong here on this site.
It's played Online
It's a Role Playing Game
So by definition it *is* an MMORPG.... granted not a more traditional one but it fits the definition.
DDO is even less of an MMORPG but I don't see people griping about that.
So saying it doesn't belong on this site is silly. It, in point of fact, *is* an MMORPG... whether you like the game, hate the game or are indifferent to the game it fits the definition of an MMORPG.
Actually, by that definition, it's an ORPG, just as stated by the devs. There is nothing massive about playing with only 7 other players at once. The games large size doesn't make it automatically make it an MMO. If we are going to define games by the genre to the very core of the definition, then games like Halo are RPGs because we play the role of Masterchief. The game may have some MMORPG elements, such as partying, crafting, and guilds, but it doesn't have the core feature of an MMO where you aren't limited to playing with just a few other people at a time in an isolated instanced area.
Nice mis-quote me to try to make your point. 1.5 million people play on the same server. In the cities they CAN play together. That is Massively Multiplayer. Sorry you're wrong it fits the MMORPG definition, even if you don't want it to. It's ok if you don't feel like calling it an MMORPG because of the instancing, that's your personal choice and right. But by the very definition of MMORPG it *does* qualify as one. It's a deliberately broad definition for a genre of "online games" that are played online in a server-based environment rather than online on a workstation sharing environment.
MUDS are even, technically, MMORPG's.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Elnator Crafting armor/weapons. .
So saying it doesn't belong on this site is silly. It, in point of fact, *is* an MMORPG... whether you like the game, hate the game or are indifferent to the game it fits the definition of an MMORPG.
Bzzt No crafting. But I could care less about that. The most people you can play with or against is what, 16 or 20 or something in Team PVP? That isn't massive, that isn't even big or even decent. That's piddly man gimme a break lol I know you like the game but it is NOT Massive. 1.5 trillion people playing in little groups of 20 at a time might be your definition of 'Massive' but it isn't mine.
BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.
That *IS* crafting.
Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.
Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by baff I think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG. You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG. You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG.As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG. And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different.
LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
i played d2 for like 3 years and loved it (yes the style of diablo and GW is very similar) not once did i ever consider it a mmorpg, even though (at the time) a couple hundred thousand people played the game, just not at the same time or in the same world.
to me GW is just wow without the persistent world and a few different features, not that thats a bad thing but every time i tried to play GW i just wanted to play wow instead.
BTW i can "handle it" just fine that i have to pay to play games like eq,wow,daoc,eq2 while GW is free, i own all those games including GW and yet i still pay to play mmorpg's instead of playing GW for free, explain that one.
Originally posted by gnappa I agree with 50% of the OP. Guild Wars is not an MMO. It is a multi-player game with a fancy chat room to form your groups. There is no persistence or world content at all. Ok, that being said, I like Guild Wars for what it is. It is a well put together game and a terrific game to play. It has no monthly fees (shouldn't anyway) and has a lot to offer it's loyal fans. But can it compare to a true MMO? Apples and Oranges. Not even a fair comparison. You would be better off comparing GW to DDO, and I think we all know which is far better
There's no world content? Are you high? As to persistence: Where in MMORPG does it talk about persistence? MMORPG stands for Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
It does not require persistence. Hell.. very very FEW MMO's have persistent worlds. If you play EQ and go kill the mobs 10000 times they will all come back. Where's the so-called persistence? Same in UO. Same in EQ2. Same in WOW.... Same in DAOC.... Same in AO and so on and so on. There is no persistence except in a few isolated MMORPGS that have implemented some form of PVP persistence like DAOC, AO PVP, Shadowbane... but the list is VERY small.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Elnator Crafting armor/weapons. .So saying it doesn't belong on this site is silly. It, in point of fact, *is* an MMORPG... whether you like the game, hate the game or are indifferent to the game it fits the definition of an MMORPG.Bzzt No crafting. But I could care less about that. The most people you can play with or against is what, 16 or 20 or something in Team PVP? That isn't massive, that isn't even big or even decent. That's piddly man gimme a break lol I know you like the game but it is NOT Massive. 1.5 trillion people playing in little groups of 20 at a time might be your definition of 'Massive' but it isn't mine.BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.That *IS* crafting. :)Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
the cities with all those people running around acts only as a hub to meet other players to play the actual game where only people in your group can go, that is why it is not a mmorpg IMO
Originally posted by baff I think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."
It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG. You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG. You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG. As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG. And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different.
LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
Incorrect sir. MMORPG's do not necessarily have to have a 'persistent' world. What's persistent about EverQuest please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes they are back, in the same places and they don't even really remember you.
What's persistent about WoW please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes or so they are back and do not remember you.
What's persistent about any MMORPG except a very very few RvR type ones where they've implemented some form of land control? Hmm? NOTHING. Persistent means that the changes you made are still there and affect other players. Very Very FEW MMORPG's have that. In fact only a handful do.
Persistence is not a required aspect of an MMORPG. The Definition of an MMORPG is: Massively 1.5 million players. Hundreds in the cities playing with you.... Check Multiplayer More than 1 person playing a time: Check Online It is played online, on a server, not hosted off a group member's home PC: Check Role Playing You create a character, fill a role in your group, get quests, adventures.... check Game --- Duh, it's definitely a game.
So please.... tell me how Guild Wars does not fill that definition? Please?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Elnator Crafting armor/weapons. .So saying it doesn't belong on this site is silly. It, in point of fact, *is* an MMORPG... whether you like the game, hate the game or are indifferent to the game it fits the definition of an MMORPG.
Bzzt No crafting. But I could care less about that. The most people you can play with or against is what, 16 or 20 or something in Team PVP? That isn't massive, that isn't even big or even decent. That's piddly man gimme a break lol I know you like the game but it is NOT Massive. 1.5 trillion people playing in little groups of 20 at a time might be your definition of 'Massive' but it isn't mine.
BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.That *IS* crafting. :)Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
the cities with all those people running around acts only as a hub to meet other players to play the actual game where only people in your group can go, that is why it is not a mmorpg IMO
And that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it. But for me that's part of playing the game. So crafting armor, weapons, dying armor and weapons, getting quests and talking to NPC's to learn the lore of the world aren't part of playing the game? You do all that in those cities too. Please tell me how that is NOT part of playing the game?
I don't like that DDO doesn't even HAVE a 'world' it's just a city. But it's STILL an MMO... I don't like that it doesn't offer anything but dungeon grinds... but it's STILL an MMO.... it's even more instanced than GuildWars but it is STILL an MMO because it fits the Definition. Is it a new KIND of MMO? Sure... then again so is PlanetSide... so is Auto Assault... so are any number of the new MMORPG's starting to hit the market. The bottom line is that MMORPG is a deliberately vague definition created by the MARKET to define a type of game where massive ammounts of players play a game hosted from a server rather than a PC. That's IT... That's the only reason the name exists. Because before they had MMO's they were all just Multiplayer Online Games hosted off each players PC.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by angerrOriginally posted by baffI think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG.You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG.You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG. As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG.And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different. LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do. Incorrect sir. MMORPG's do not necessarily have to have a 'persistent' world. What's persistent about EverQuest please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes they are back, in the same places and they don't even really remember you. What's persistent about WoW please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes or so they are back and do not remember you.What's persistent about any MMORPG except a very very few RvR type ones where they've implemented some form of land control? Hmm? NOTHING. Persistent means that the changes you made are still there and affect other players. Very Very FEW MMORPG's have that. In fact only a handful do.Persistence is not a required aspect of an MMORPG. The Definition of an MMORPG is:Massively 1.5 million players. Hundreds in the cities playing with you.... CheckMultiplayer More than 1 person playing a time: CheckOnline It is played online, on a server, not hosted off a group member's home PC: CheckRole Playing You create a character, fill a role in your group, get quests, adventures.... checkGame --- Duh, it's definitely a game.So please.... tell me how Guild Wars does not fill that definition? Please?
you are missing the point, when i say "persistent world" i am saying that there is a world that always exists where the actual game is played.
thousands of people all exist in this world at the same time, and it always exists 24/7 making it "persistent" and that is where GW lacks. sure there is lots of people that play GW but not in the same world, other than the cities that act only as a hub to get quests or meet other players to join their group to play the actual game outside the city in your own personal world.
it is defiantly a multilayer online roleplaying game, but in order for it to be "massive" i feel that thousands of players should be able to play the actual game together all in the same world, not just in the cities.
this is just my opinion BTW, if you want to call it a mmorpg i have no beef with that.....just figured i would offer my opinion on this subject.
Originally posted by Elnator So crafting armor, weapons, dying armor and weapons, getting quests and talking to NPC's to learn the lore of the world aren't part of playing the game? You do all that in those cities too. Please tell me how that is NOT part of playing the game?
yes it is part of the game, but the actual content like questing, pvp, and the actual world it self is all instanced in your own personal world that only exists when you enter it, that is my point.
BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.
That *IS* crafting.
Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.
Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
The most people you can fight along side at one time is less than 20. That is NOT MASSIVE! Cmon man, even NCSoft calls it a CORPG. Competitive online rpgl. Not Massive. Sorry.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by angerr
Originally posted by baff I think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."
It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG. You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG. You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG. As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG. And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different.
LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
Incorrect sir. MMORPG's do not necessarily have to have a 'persistent' world. What's persistent about EverQuest please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes they are back, in the same places and they don't even really remember you.
What's persistent about WoW please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes or so they are back and do not remember you.
What's persistent about any MMORPG except a very very few RvR type ones where they've implemented some form of land control? Hmm? NOTHING. Persistent means that the changes you made are still there and affect other players. Very Very FEW MMORPG's have that. In fact only a handful do.
Persistence is not a required aspect of an MMORPG. The Definition of an MMORPG is: Massively 1.5 million players. Hundreds in the cities playing with you.... Check Multiplayer More than 1 person playing a time: Check Online It is played online, on a server, not hosted off a group member's home PC: Check Role Playing You create a character, fill a role in your group, get quests, adventures.... check Game --- Duh, it's definitely a game.
So please.... tell me how Guild Wars does not fill that definition? Please?
VERY RARELY IN OTHER MMORPGS DO YOU EVER PLAY WITH OVER 40 PEOPLE IN THE SAME AREA/ZONE AT THE SAME TIME BESIDES MAIN TOWNS.
don't give me any of this bull crap about "ya but we can!!!1!!one".
The exception to this rule comes in a very few ways.
1. Release of game, everyones going to be crowded around the same few zones. 2. Overly productive zones, areas where its THE place to camp, THE place to farm. 3. Event Zones, areas where a event is added and participated in. 4. PvP raids. Self explanatory.
Other then that your more often then not either soloing something, or farming something with your group. You may see a person/group come by, and one of 3 things happen.
1. You ignore him.(most common) 2. You get flustered by him/them.(more effective then you at what your killing, or just taking what you are killing(kill stealing)) 3. You ask to join them, or him to join you.(only happens normally if your struggling with the mobs, or no 2)
Thats basically most mmorpgs in a nutshell.
Now what exactly is a mmorpg? if your running around in say winterspring in wow, and you dont see anyone, are you playing a mmorpg? You may say "ya because alot of other people are in the world even if they arent in that world." Does that mean that people inside wow instances, be it pvp, or pve(id say a good 10%-40% of the wow people are in some sort of instance at all times). And what about kalimdor, eastern kingdoms, and probably outlands in the future being on seperate servers from each other? Does that make wow not be a mmo?
What about city of heroes, almost all the missions are instanced, and different "zones" can form seperate versions of themselves like brickstown 1, brickstown 2. does that make it not a mmorpg?
Is there some line that has to be drawn between how much instancing is in the game? Why isn't this arguement really rising for ddo? which is practically in the same boat. Because its more "traditional"? What makes ANYONE qualified to draw this line, no one company has the right to say this is how a mmorpg is done, if you don't do it this way, its not a mmorpg.
What does guild wars have?
1. A fully detailed out world that is explorable solo or with a group, you may not meet other players out in the zones, but with a full group going out, who cares? 2. A pvp system which is more fun then any other mmo out there atm(unfortuneately...) 3. A massive amount of players on the same servers.
Just because you cant see and ignore 5 other people every hour(if you stay in a mission a hour...) doesnt mean they arent there. You can keep in contact with them at any time. You can go see them anytime. You dont have to join a different server to go see em(you may insert channel hopping here, but really this feature is in most modern mmorpgs nowadays so i really dont see the big deal about channels).
Honestly even tho its instanced, doesnt mean its not a mmorpg. Just because it doesnt fit your concept of one, doesn't change the facts.
But at the end of the day. Who really gives a flying ____. Guild wars even if its not a "true"(to your standards) mmorpg, it still is mmorpg enough to be allowed on this website.
And ya, even if you dont like the game, your still a troll.
By definition, MMORPG users are part of a persistent world of up to 2000 other concurrent users. A persistent world is a world that exists independent of the users. In stand-alone MMORPG games and local network games, the world only exists when the game is started by the user, and thus is dependent on the user “activating” it.
In an MMORPG, the world exists before the user logs on, and continues to exist when the user logs off. More importantly, events and interactions occur in the world (driven by other users) even when the user is not logged on to the persistent world. To accommodate the sheer number of users, the worlds in MMORPGs are vast and varied (in terms of terrain, flora, fauna, and local inhabitants). In contrast, the worlds of most standalone and local network games are simplistic and can only accommodate fewer than 16 concurrent players in a space that can be traversed in a few minutes.
According to this definition GW is a MMORPG. If it's good enough for Nick Yee...its good enough for me.
I agree that this game 'sucks', but because of the reasons you listed. Sure, its more like Diabo2+ than an MMO, or NWN meets D2. That all seems like a nice change IMO. It was the community and the short gameplay that did me in (much like D2, there were very few reliable, calm, and collected players about).
Would be a fun game if it were more like NWN where I could set up my own server and make my own mods.
Originally posted by Elnator BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.
That *IS* crafting.
Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.
Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
The most people you can fight along side at one time is less than 20. That is NOT MASSIVE! Cmon man, even NCSoft calls it a CORPG. Competitive online rpgl. Not Massive. Sorry.
I'm sorry Anarchy... by virtue of the fact that you insist on talking about 1 aspect of a game and blatantly ignore the other aspects you are proving yourself to be nothing more than a troll. Interacting with other players, NPC's, Quests, the ability to gain experience and skills and spells and weapons and armor in the towns makes that just as much part of PLAYING The game, indeed part of the WORLD of guild wars as any other game.
In point of fact someone claimed that the world of Guild Wars isn't persistant. I beg to differ. Costs of items placed on the market (dyes, runes, skills, etc) is driven by player demand. If I buy out the dyes on the dye vendor the price goes up. Even if I log out those prices will remain up until demand goes down. This is the very definition of a persistent world. My actions in the game impact the game's economy directly and noticeably. I have single handedly doubled the price on the cloth commodity for crafting on more than one occasion and tonight I will probably cause a leather price hike as well MUAHHAHA when I go through and buy up all the leather for the new players in my guild to get their first sets of crafted armor. Furthermore I'll probably wind up emptying the rune vendor of 'minor' runes because I intend to buy a ton of those both for myself and other members of my guild.
So you see... guild wars does have a persistent world and a player driven economy.... So where's your arguement now? Are you going to stand on your tired statement of "well you can only PVP with like 40 other people?" Guess what... that's true in WoW too... Matter of fact you can't even PvP with that many in EQ2 until they finally ADDED PVP. And in EQ2 it's instanced as well in the cities... matter of fact I never saw more than 7 or 8 people in any town in EQ2.... on a GOOD day, on Antonia Bayle (the "biggest" of the servers at the time) even at peak time you were lucky to see more than 15 people in town at once. You might run into as many as 20... 30 tops... in an adventure zone... especially at lower levels. So you realistically never played with more than like 15 people in EQ2.... And it's instanced... GASP.... and it's NOT persistent in any way other than *gasp* player market prices! ... wait... so is Guild Wars....
I understand that you don't like calling Guild Wars an MMO... why I don't know. It's marketed as a CORPG and I agree that it's a far more accurate description of the game. But that doesn't make it *not* an MMO.... It's both.
I'm not going to discuss this further. I've made my point and you have repeatedly shown yourself to be nothing more than a troll. I don't know what MMO you're a fan of now but you have a history of finding a game you like, becoming a *rabid* fan of it to the point of fanaticism and bashing any other game you feel is somehow inferior to it. This is just yet another occurance of that. GuildWars isn't even my favorite MMO... not by a long friggen shot. But trying to get a game that qualifies to be on this site in every way thrown off just because you don't like that it's rated higher than whatever you happen to be playing lately is just plain silly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
So I get a warning that I'm going to be banned because of this thread. You say I'm trolling, Elnator? Because our opinionis differ? Get off your high horse man. 20 people playing together is not massive multiplayer online action. I get 64 in Battlefield 2. You get all indignant because I listen to what you say and disagree and I wasn't even abusive or anything. I haven't said anything even remotely harsh or inflammatory or defamatory. Well besides the title of the thread, which I already apologized for.
If I can't have a simple discussion about whether or not a game fits the definition of MMORPG without a person I have played with in games getting so incensed that he reports me for trolling then what is a forum good for anyway? I didn't swear or bereate anyone for disagreeing, I simply state my opinion.
You said something in your post where I bash anything that isn't the game I'm a rabid fanboi of at the time. That's a lie. Show me one post bashing any mmorpg on this site. I dare you. You're wrong and I'm right and the mods make money having Guild Wars on this site so I might even get banned because of it.
Wow lol people sure do support Guild Wars. And man do you guys all get really upset about the subject. Why is that? I'ts just something to kill time, that's what this site is. Relax.
And Nick Yee wrote
In contrast, the worlds of most standalone and local network games are simplistic and can only accommodate fewer than 16 concurrent players in a space that can be traversed in a few minutes.
That sounds like Guild Wars.
Now for the love of pete don't get all upset over this thread.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Elnator BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.
That *IS* crafting.
Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.
Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that. I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
The most people you can fight along side at one time is less than 20. That is NOT MASSIVE! Cmon man, even NCSoft calls it a CORPG. Competitive online rpgl. Not Massive. Sorry.
I'm sorry Anarchy... by virtue of the fact that you insist on talking about 1 aspect of a game and blatantly ignore the other aspects you are proving yourself to be nothing more than a troll. Interacting with other players, NPC's, Quests, the ability to gain experience and skills and spells and weapons and armor in the towns makes that just as much part of PLAYING The game, indeed part of the WORLD of guild wars as any other game.
In point of fact someone claimed that the world of Guild Wars isn't persistant. I beg to differ. Costs of items placed on the market (dyes, runes, skills, etc) is driven by player demand. If I buy out the dyes on the dye vendor the price goes up. Even if I log out those prices will remain up until demand goes down. This is the very definition of a persistent world. My actions in the game impact the game's economy directly and noticeably. I have single handedly doubled the price on the cloth commodity for crafting on more than one occasion and tonight I will probably cause a leather price hike as well MUAHHAHA when I go through and buy up all the leather for the new players in my guild to get their first sets of crafted armor. Furthermore I'll probably wind up emptying the rune vendor of 'minor' runes because I intend to buy a ton of those both for myself and other members of my guild.
So you see... guild wars does have a persistent world and a player driven economy.... So where's your arguement now? Are you going to stand on your tired statement of "well you can only PVP with like 40 other people?" Guess what... that's true in WoW too... Matter of fact you can't even PvP with that many in EQ2 until they finally ADDED PVP. And in EQ2 it's instanced as well in the cities... matter of fact I never saw more than 7 or 8 people in any town in EQ2.... on a GOOD day, on Antonia Bayle (the "biggest" of the servers at the time) even at peak time you were lucky to see more than 15 people in town at once. You might run into as many as 20... 30 tops... in an adventure zone... especially at lower levels. So you realistically never played with more than like 15 people in EQ2.... And it's instanced... GASP.... and it's NOT persistent in any way other than *gasp* player market prices! ... wait... so is Guild Wars....
I understand that you don't like calling Guild Wars an MMO... why I don't know. It's marketed as a CORPG and I agree that it's a far more accurate description of the game. But that doesn't make it *not* an MMO.... It's both.
I'm not going to discuss this further. I've made my point and you have repeatedly shown yourself to be nothing more than a troll. I don't know what MMO you're a fan of now but you have a history of finding a game you like, becoming a *rabid* fan of it to the point of fanaticism and bashing any other game you feel is somehow inferior to it. This is just yet another occurance of that. GuildWars isn't even my favorite MMO... not by a long friggen shot. But trying to get a game that qualifies to be on this site in every way thrown off just because you don't like that it's rated higher than whatever you happen to be playing lately is just plain silly.
I've already mentioned what my thoughts on how you are defining an MMO. Do you know what sets this game apart from other MMOs? What I believe truly makes an MMO is the amount of freedom that is accessible by players. The PvP in WoW and EQ2, unlike in Guild Wars, is not limited to a set of options like team deathmatch, CTF, king of the hill, etc. There's limitless options on how you can go about it. This was a story I've read somewhere else: There was this one time where I was killing some mobs for a quest, minding my own business, until a guy comes from nowhere and kills me while I'm still recovering from the last mob. I rez up, bring along some of my friends to get back at the guy. Upon finding him, there he is with his groups of friends! We manage to duke it out in an intense battle, where we eventually came out victorious. Here's what I'd expect in PvE from an MMO: later you come across a mob who you happen to underestimate and is just about to defeat you, until a helpful stranger comes by and lends a hend after tossing you a heal or two, then you finish the mob off together. THIS is what I think you will find in an MMO, freedom, not by these definitions. I can see where you are getting at, by looking at Guild Wars as perhaps, "an MMO, but not as MMOish as others." I've said in a previous post that I recognize the game's implementation of MMO elements, but for me, the game is either an MMO or it isn't, this one I believe, isn't.
To all those saying GW isn't a persistant world...you're wrong.
Things happen while you're not logged in...eg. just talk to those who missed Halloween, or Christmas festivities they can't get the unique items that were available then (unless they buy them off someone else). They missed out on an event that happened in the persistent world, that was going on while they weren't there.
It's also MORE realistic (thus lending a more persistant feel) than other MMOs in that when you take (or complete) a quest the world actually changes according to your actions. This is particularly evident with the new factions game. You can walk into an area, and if you have a particular quest you'll get ambushed by groups of enemies that weren't there before (or you'll see extra wandering mobs that usually aren't there depending on the quest), once you finish the quest they don't reappear next time you enter the area. It actually feels MUCH more real than in a "regular" MMO where stuff just respawns and is always in the same spot.
Like I always say...it might not be a "standard" MMO, but it's better than them by a LONG LONG way. (Fast becoming my GW mantra)
Originally posted by anarchyart It's not an MMORPG, it's Diablo 2 with a Lineage 2 skin. It shouldn't be on this site and it's appalling that it holds 2 of the top spots on the ratings. Bottom line, it's not an MMORPG and it doesn't belong here. Give those 2 spots for games that have persistant worlds, or at least the ability to play with more than a handful of other people at the same time.
dude go ask ur mommy what an mmorpg is than u can go talk with the adults
i hate people who say that a mmorpg not really one, but i admit some games on this site r not mmorpgs but they r still in beta form u idiot, take gunz:the duel for example.they had on this site for quite some time then they took it off recently.
tell u what
every game that u see on the game list that is out is a real mmorpg except World war II(that game is kinda crappy)
Originally posted by anarchyart You said something in your post where I bash anything that isn't the game I'm a rabid fanboi of at the time. That's a lie. Show me one post bashing any mmorpg on this site. I dare you.
Don't look at your avatar sig! lol
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Comments
WoW has all the character development of a ham sandwich.
You don't go to wow to roleplay. Only for fast pvp action, thats all its good for.
Thats why its such a smash hit. Because its NOT an mmorpg. People are realizing that mmorpg usually means "EQ clone and boring ass snoozefest."
Honestly I don't think the public has much patience for that nonsense, which is why mmorpg's are being redefined to include gw and wow.
GW gives people what they want. Combat.
Keep your character development, keep your fishing, keep your "how art thou?" fake british accent "roleplaying." All that stuff is lame.
These days I get more fun out of 30 minutes of counterstrike than I get out of 2 hours of "role playing."
They use psychological principles to keep people hooked on that garbage, and basically what you have at the end is a whole lot of waiting for nothing.
I'm sorry, sitting in AH comparing armor is like playing with barbie dolls. What a waste of time.
Anyway Imma go frag something.
WOW is an mmorpg, and thats a fact.
Massive: You bet
Multiplayer: yup
Online: thats right
Roleplaying: yes, your taking the role of your character
Game: check
if you go for pvp in WoW only, uninstall it and go play a FPS.
I agree with 50% of the OP. Guild Wars is not an MMO. It is a multi-player game with a fancy chat room to form your groups. There is no persistence or world content at all.
Ok, that being said, I like Guild Wars for what it is. It is a well put together game and a terrific game to play. It has no monthly fees (shouldn't anyway) and has a lot to offer it's loyal fans.
But can it compare to a true MMO? Apples and Oranges. Not even a fair comparison. You would be better off comparing GW to DDO, and I think we all know which is far better
If I recall, severs have approximately 15,000 to 20,000 characters each. Characters, not players. The peak online is roughly 3,000. Take away the players that are in instances or waiting to get into instances, consider the fact that soulbound equipment limits the economy, and that the game is very attractive to the solo player up to level 60 and you realize that WoW doesn't support player interaction all too well, and isn't quite so massive.
I think when people say "Guild wars is not an MMORPG", they actually mean "Guild Wars is not an MMORPG that I want to play."
It clearly is an MMORPG. It might not have all the features you looking for un an MMORPG, but it is an MMORPG.
You don't like instances? It's still an MMORPG.
You don't like the chat functions? It's still an MMORPG.
As much as you would like to change the definition of MMORPG to something that doesn't include Guild Wars, it's still an MMORPG.
And it has no monthly subscription and that's why all the people who pay to play can't handle it. They are just desperate to denigrate it so that they don't feel foolish about paying hundreds a year to play something that offers nothing different.
Nice mis-quote me to try to make your point. 1.5 million people play on the same server. In the cities they CAN play together. That is Massively Multiplayer. Sorry you're wrong it fits the MMORPG definition, even if you don't want it to. It's ok if you don't feel like calling it an MMORPG because of the instancing, that's your personal choice and right. But by the very definition of MMORPG it *does* qualify as one. It's a deliberately broad definition for a genre of "online games" that are played online in a server-based environment rather than online on a workstation sharing environment.
MUDS are even, technically, MMORPG's.
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Bzzt No crafting. But I could care less about that. The most people you can play with or against is what, 16 or 20 or something in Team PVP? That isn't massive, that isn't even big or even decent. That's piddly man gimme a break lol I know you like the game but it is NOT Massive. 1.5 trillion people playing in little groups of 20 at a time might be your definition of 'Massive' but it isn't mine.
BZZT wrong... it does have crafting. I have a crafted set of armor AND a crafted weapon on my character as I write this. Sure *I* didn't craft it. I did, however, get the parts needed, pay the money needed and had it crafted. It's STILL crafted. It's just a different method of implementing player crafted items. Instead of having a crafting skill that I have to grind I just have to gather the items and money needed to make what I want and have it made.
That *IS* crafting.
Actually the most people you can play WITH is several hundred, in the cities. In the guild hall your entire guild can be in there with you training, chatting whatever. That *IS* part of playing the game. So yes, you can be playing with hundreds of other players.
Go to any guild wars city and run around a bit. There are a ton of people running hither and yon, getting missions, getting groups, joining guilds, dying armor, getting weapons or armor crafted. Dying their armor whatever color they choose, etc. That *IS* playing the game, and in the larger, more popular, cities there are HUNDREDS of players. More than I ever see in EQ2 or SWG or even in WOW. So yes, it's massively multiplayer as well. Sure it's instanced once you go into the wilderness but that is actually quite nice. No competing for a spawn or waiting in line to do a 'boss mob' or anything like that.
I'm not saying Guild Wars is the best MMO on the market but it *is* an MMO.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
i played d2 for like 3 years and loved it (yes the style of diablo and GW is very similar) not once did i ever consider it a mmorpg, even though (at the time) a couple hundred thousand people played the game, just not at the same time or in the same world.
to me GW is just wow without the persistent world and a few different features, not that thats a bad thing but every time i tried to play GW i just wanted to play wow instead.
BTW i can "handle it" just fine that i have to pay to play games like eq,wow,daoc,eq2 while GW is free, i own all those games including GW and yet i still pay to play mmorpg's instead of playing GW for free, explain that one.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
As to persistence: Where in MMORPG does it talk about persistence? MMORPG stands for Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
It does not require persistence. Hell.. very very FEW MMO's have persistent worlds. If you play EQ and go kill the mobs 10000 times they will all come back. Where's the so-called persistence? Same in UO. Same in EQ2. Same in WOW.... Same in DAOC.... Same in AO and so on and so on. There is no persistence except in a few isolated MMORPGS that have implemented some form of PVP persistence like DAOC, AO PVP, Shadowbane... but the list is VERY small.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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the cities with all those people running around acts only as a hub to meet other players to play the actual game where only people in your group can go, that is why it is not a mmorpg IMO
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
Incorrect sir. MMORPG's do not necessarily have to have a 'persistent' world. What's persistent about EverQuest please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes they are back, in the same places and they don't even really remember you.
What's persistent about WoW please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes or so they are back and do not remember you.
What's persistent about any MMORPG except a very very few RvR type ones where they've implemented some form of land control? Hmm? NOTHING. Persistent means that the changes you made are still there and affect other players. Very Very FEW MMORPG's have that. In fact only a handful do.
Persistence is not a required aspect of an MMORPG. The Definition of an MMORPG is:
Massively 1.5 million players. Hundreds in the cities playing with you.... Check
Multiplayer More than 1 person playing a time: Check
Online It is played online, on a server, not hosted off a group member's home PC: Check
Role Playing You create a character, fill a role in your group, get quests, adventures.... check
Game --- Duh, it's definitely a game.
So please.... tell me how Guild Wars does not fill that definition? Please?
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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I don't like that DDO doesn't even HAVE a 'world' it's just a city. But it's STILL an MMO... I don't like that it doesn't offer anything but dungeon grinds... but it's STILL an MMO.... it's even more instanced than GuildWars but it is STILL an MMO because it fits the Definition. Is it a new KIND of MMO? Sure... then again so is PlanetSide... so is Auto Assault... so are any number of the new MMORPG's starting to hit the market. The bottom line is that MMORPG is a deliberately vague definition created by the MARKET to define a type of game where massive ammounts of players play a game hosted from a server rather than a PC. That's IT... That's the only reason the name exists. Because before they had MMO's they were all just Multiplayer Online Games hosted off each players PC.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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you are missing the point, when i say "persistent world" i am saying that there is a world that always exists where the actual game is played.
thousands of people all exist in this world at the same time, and it always exists 24/7 making it "persistent" and that is where GW lacks. sure there is lots of people that play GW but not in the same world, other than the cities that act only as a hub to get quests or meet other players to join their group to play the actual game outside the city in your own personal world.
it is defiantly a multilayer online roleplaying game, but in order for it to be "massive" i feel that thousands of players should be able to play the actual game together all in the same world, not just in the cities.
this is just my opinion BTW, if you want to call it a mmorpg i have no beef with that.....just figured i would offer my opinion on this subject.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
yes it is part of the game, but the actual content like questing, pvp, and the actual world it self is all instanced in your own personal world that only exists when you enter it, that is my point.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
LOL completely disagree....its not a mmorpg because it doesn't have a persistent world, its as simple as that. just because alot of people play a game doesn't make it "massive" when 2k+ all play in the same world, that makes it a mmo.....yeah i don't really like GW personally but that is not why i have the opinion i do.
Incorrect sir. MMORPG's do not necessarily have to have a 'persistent' world. What's persistent about EverQuest please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes they are back, in the same places and they don't even really remember you.
What's persistent about WoW please? You go out, kill a few mobs, in 5 minutes or so they are back and do not remember you.
What's persistent about any MMORPG except a very very few RvR type ones where they've implemented some form of land control? Hmm? NOTHING. Persistent means that the changes you made are still there and affect other players. Very Very FEW MMORPG's have that. In fact only a handful do.
Persistence is not a required aspect of an MMORPG. The Definition of an MMORPG is:
Massively 1.5 million players. Hundreds in the cities playing with you.... Check
Multiplayer More than 1 person playing a time: Check
Online It is played online, on a server, not hosted off a group member's home PC: Check
Role Playing You create a character, fill a role in your group, get quests, adventures.... check
Game --- Duh, it's definitely a game.
So please.... tell me how Guild Wars does not fill that definition? Please?
Well said
VERY RARELY IN OTHER MMORPGS DO YOU EVER PLAY WITH OVER 40 PEOPLE IN THE SAME AREA/ZONE AT THE SAME TIME BESIDES MAIN TOWNS.
don't give me any of this bull crap about "ya but we can!!!1!!one".
The exception to this rule comes in a very few ways.
1. Release of game, everyones going to be crowded around the same few zones.
2. Overly productive zones, areas where its THE place to camp, THE place to farm.
3. Event Zones, areas where a event is added and participated in.
4. PvP raids. Self explanatory.
Other then that your more often then not either soloing something, or farming something with your group. You may see a person/group come by, and one of 3 things happen.
1. You ignore him.(most common)
2. You get flustered by him/them.(more effective then you at what your killing, or just taking what you are killing(kill stealing))
3. You ask to join them, or him to join you.(only happens normally if your struggling with the mobs, or no 2)
Thats basically most mmorpgs in a nutshell.
Now what exactly is a mmorpg? if your running around in say winterspring in wow, and you dont see anyone, are you playing a mmorpg? You may say "ya because alot of other people are in the world even if they arent in that world." Does that mean that people inside wow instances, be it pvp, or pve(id say a good 10%-40% of the wow people are in some sort of instance at all times). And what about kalimdor, eastern kingdoms, and probably outlands in the future being on seperate servers from each other? Does that make wow not be a mmo?
What about city of heroes, almost all the missions are instanced, and different "zones" can form seperate versions of themselves like brickstown 1, brickstown 2. does that make it not a mmorpg?
Is there some line that has to be drawn between how much instancing is in the game? Why isn't this arguement really rising for ddo? which is practically in the same boat. Because its more "traditional"? What makes ANYONE qualified to draw this line, no one company has the right to say this is how a mmorpg is done, if you don't do it this way, its not a mmorpg.
What does guild wars have?
1. A fully detailed out world that is explorable solo or with a group, you may not meet other players out in the zones, but with a full group going out, who cares?
2. A pvp system which is more fun then any other mmo out there atm(unfortuneately...)
3. A massive amount of players on the same servers.
Just because you cant see and ignore 5 other people every hour(if you stay in a mission a hour...) doesnt mean they arent there. You can keep in contact with them at any time. You can go see them anytime. You dont have to join a different server to go see em(you may insert channel hopping here, but really this feature is in most modern mmorpgs nowadays so i really dont see the big deal about channels).
Honestly even tho its instanced, doesnt mean its not a mmorpg. Just because it doesnt fit your concept of one, doesn't change the facts.
But at the end of the day. Who really gives a flying ____. Guild wars even if its not a "true"(to your standards) mmorpg, it still is mmorpg enough to be allowed on this website.
And ya, even if you dont like the game, your still a troll.
By definition, MMORPG users are part of a persistent world of up to 2000 other concurrent users. A persistent world is a world that exists independent of the users. In stand-alone MMORPG games and local network games, the world only exists when the game is started by the user, and thus is dependent on the user “activating” it.
In an MMORPG, the world exists before the user logs on, and continues to exist when the user logs off. More importantly, events and interactions occur in the world (driven by other users) even when the user is not logged on to the persistent world. To accommodate the sheer number of users, the worlds in MMORPGs are vast and varied (in terms of terrain, flora, fauna, and local inhabitants). In contrast, the worlds of most standalone and local network games are simplistic and can only accommodate fewer than 16 concurrent players in a space that can be traversed in a few minutes.
According to this definition GW is a MMORPG. If it's good enough for Nick Yee...its good enough for me.
Would be a fun game if it were more like NWN where I could set up my own server and make my own mods.
I'm sorry Anarchy... by virtue of the fact that you insist on talking about 1 aspect of a game and blatantly ignore the other aspects you are proving yourself to be nothing more than a troll. Interacting with other players, NPC's, Quests, the ability to gain experience and skills and spells and weapons and armor in the towns makes that just as much part of PLAYING The game, indeed part of the WORLD of guild wars as any other game.
In point of fact someone claimed that the world of Guild Wars isn't persistant. I beg to differ. Costs of items placed on the market (dyes, runes, skills, etc) is driven by player demand. If I buy out the dyes on the dye vendor the price goes up. Even if I log out those prices will remain up until demand goes down. This is the very definition of a persistent world. My actions in the game impact the game's economy directly and noticeably. I have single handedly doubled the price on the cloth commodity for crafting on more than one occasion and tonight I will probably cause a leather price hike as well
So you see... guild wars does have a persistent world and a player driven economy.... So where's your arguement now? Are you going to stand on your tired statement of "well you can only PVP with like 40 other people?" Guess what... that's true in WoW too... Matter of fact you can't even PvP with that many in EQ2 until they finally ADDED PVP. And in EQ2 it's instanced as well in the cities... matter of fact I never saw more than 7 or 8 people in any town in EQ2.... on a GOOD day, on Antonia Bayle (the "biggest" of the servers at the time) even at peak time you were lucky to see more than 15 people in town at once. You might run into as many as 20... 30 tops... in an adventure zone... especially at lower levels. So you realistically never played with more than like 15 people in EQ2.... And it's instanced... GASP.... and it's NOT persistent in any way other than *gasp* player market prices! ... wait... so is Guild Wars....
I understand that you don't like calling Guild Wars an MMO... why I don't know. It's marketed as a CORPG and I agree that it's a far more accurate description of the game. But that doesn't make it *not* an MMO.... It's both.
I'm not going to discuss this further. I've made my point and you have repeatedly shown yourself to be nothing more than a troll. I don't know what MMO you're a fan of now but you have a history of finding a game you like, becoming a *rabid* fan of it to the point of fanaticism and bashing any other game you feel is somehow inferior to it. This is just yet another occurance of that. GuildWars isn't even my favorite MMO... not by a long friggen shot. But trying to get a game that qualifies to be on this site in every way thrown off just because you don't like that it's rated higher than whatever you happen to be playing lately is just plain silly.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
So I get a warning that I'm going to be banned because of this thread. You say I'm trolling, Elnator? Because our opinionis differ? Get off your high horse man. 20 people playing together is not massive multiplayer online action. I get 64 in Battlefield 2. You get all indignant because I listen to what you say and disagree and I wasn't even abusive or anything. I haven't said anything even remotely harsh or inflammatory or defamatory. Well besides the title of the thread, which I already apologized for.
If I can't have a simple discussion about whether or not a game fits the definition of MMORPG without a person I have played with in games getting so incensed that he reports me for trolling then what is a forum good for anyway? I didn't swear or bereate anyone for disagreeing, I simply state my opinion.
You said something in your post where I bash anything that isn't the game I'm a rabid fanboi of at the time. That's a lie. Show me one post bashing any mmorpg on this site. I dare you. You're wrong and I'm right and the mods make money having Guild Wars on this site so I might even get banned because of it.
Pfft.
Wow lol people sure do support Guild Wars. And man do you guys all get really upset about the subject. Why is that? I'ts just something to kill time, that's what this site is. Relax.
And Nick Yee wrote
In contrast, the worlds of most standalone and local network games are simplistic and can only accommodate fewer than 16 concurrent players in a space that can be traversed in a few minutes.
That sounds like Guild Wars.
Now for the love of pete don't get all upset over this thread.
I'm sorry Anarchy... by virtue of the fact that you insist on talking about 1 aspect of a game and blatantly ignore the other aspects you are proving yourself to be nothing more than a troll. Interacting with other players, NPC's, Quests, the ability to gain experience and skills and spells and weapons and armor in the towns makes that just as much part of PLAYING The game, indeed part of the WORLD of guild wars as any other game.
In point of fact someone claimed that the world of Guild Wars isn't persistant. I beg to differ. Costs of items placed on the market (dyes, runes, skills, etc) is driven by player demand. If I buy out the dyes on the dye vendor the price goes up. Even if I log out those prices will remain up until demand goes down. This is the very definition of a persistent world. My actions in the game impact the game's economy directly and noticeably. I have single handedly doubled the price on the cloth commodity for crafting on more than one occasion and tonight I will probably cause a leather price hike as well
So you see... guild wars does have a persistent world and a player driven economy.... So where's your arguement now? Are you going to stand on your tired statement of "well you can only PVP with like 40 other people?" Guess what... that's true in WoW too... Matter of fact you can't even PvP with that many in EQ2 until they finally ADDED PVP. And in EQ2 it's instanced as well in the cities... matter of fact I never saw more than 7 or 8 people in any town in EQ2.... on a GOOD day, on Antonia Bayle (the "biggest" of the servers at the time) even at peak time you were lucky to see more than 15 people in town at once. You might run into as many as 20... 30 tops... in an adventure zone... especially at lower levels. So you realistically never played with more than like 15 people in EQ2.... And it's instanced... GASP.... and it's NOT persistent in any way other than *gasp* player market prices! ... wait... so is Guild Wars....
I understand that you don't like calling Guild Wars an MMO... why I don't know. It's marketed as a CORPG and I agree that it's a far more accurate description of the game. But that doesn't make it *not* an MMO.... It's both.
I'm not going to discuss this further. I've made my point and you have repeatedly shown yourself to be nothing more than a troll. I don't know what MMO you're a fan of now but you have a history of finding a game you like, becoming a *rabid* fan of it to the point of fanaticism and bashing any other game you feel is somehow inferior to it. This is just yet another occurance of that. GuildWars isn't even my favorite MMO... not by a long friggen shot. But trying to get a game that qualifies to be on this site in every way thrown off just because you don't like that it's rated higher than whatever you happen to be playing lately is just plain silly.
I've already mentioned what my thoughts on how you are defining an MMO. Do you know what sets this game apart from other MMOs? What I believe truly makes an MMO is the amount of freedom that is accessible by players. The PvP in WoW and EQ2, unlike in Guild Wars, is not limited to a set of options like team deathmatch, CTF, king of the hill, etc. There's limitless options on how you can go about it.
This was a story I've read somewhere else: There was this one time where I was killing some mobs for a quest, minding my own business, until a guy comes from nowhere and kills me while I'm still recovering from the last mob. I rez up, bring along some of my friends to get back at the guy. Upon finding him, there he is with his groups of friends! We manage to duke it out in an intense battle, where we eventually came out victorious. Here's what I'd expect in PvE from an MMO: later you come across a mob who you happen to underestimate and is just about to defeat you, until a helpful stranger comes by and lends a hend after tossing you a heal or two, then you finish the mob off together.
THIS is what I think you will find in an MMO, freedom, not by these definitions. I can see where you are getting at, by looking at Guild Wars as perhaps, "an MMO, but not as MMOish as others." I've said in a previous post that I recognize the game's implementation of MMO elements, but for me, the game is either an MMO or it isn't, this one I believe, isn't.
To all those saying GW isn't a persistant world...you're wrong.
Things happen while you're not logged in...eg. just talk to those who missed Halloween, or Christmas festivities they can't get the unique items that were available then (unless they buy them off someone else). They missed out on an event that happened in the persistent world, that was going on while they weren't there.
It's also MORE realistic (thus lending a more persistant feel) than other MMOs in that when you take (or complete) a quest the world actually changes according to your actions. This is particularly evident with the new factions game. You can walk into an area, and if you have a particular quest you'll get ambushed by groups of enemies that weren't there before (or you'll see extra wandering mobs that usually aren't there depending on the quest), once you finish the quest they don't reappear next time you enter the area. It actually feels MUCH more real than in a "regular" MMO where stuff just respawns and is always in the same spot.
Like I always say...it might not be a "standard" MMO, but it's better than them by a LONG LONG way.
(Fast becoming my GW mantra)
dude go ask ur mommy what an mmorpg is than u can go talk with the adults
i hate people who say that a mmorpg not really one, but i admit some games on this site r not mmorpgs but they r still in beta form u idiot, take gunz:the duel for example.they had on this site for quite some time then they took it off recently.
tell u what
every game that u see on the game list that is out is a real mmorpg except World war II(that game is kinda crappy)
Don't look at your avatar sig! lol
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.