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SOE.........sorry bad mistake Sigil.
ste2000
Member EpicPosts: 6,194
Yes another thread on SOE, but I really had to post this one.
I am sorry but SOE choice as a Publisher replacement is the worse decision Sigil could make.
First of all I just wanted to say that I understand the reasons why Sigil made such decision.
Vanguards is an ambitious game and require all the logistic back up that companies like SOE can offer, in order to offer a smooth service.
After the departure of MS, I understand why Sigil had to find another heavy weight that could support their game in order to make it successful.
Having said that, no matter what the very good reasons were, this decision is the worse Sigil could make.
There are other good MMORPG publishers around nowadays; NCSoft is the best company around at the moment.
They give complete autonomy to their developers and they are just happy to publish the game without interfering with developer’s decision.
Another emerging company is Webzen, really big in China who recently opened offices in US and is planning to expand worldwide like NCSoft did.
Even Mythic could have been a better choice, very serious company although it has only 1 game in its portfolio (but Warhammer in development, which will be a big hit.)
Those could be good choices as MS replacement.
Another option could have been Sigil going alone, like other small companies did (CCP/EVE, Funcom/AO, Mythic/DAOC).
Every option could have been ideal except the selection of SOE as publisher partner.
Why?
There are reasons why people hate SOE, and are all very good reasons, this has nothing to do with the fact that lately there is a trend to slag big corporations.
The main reason why SOE is so bad is that it has lost its main focus on producing good quality games, and transformed itself in a "hardcore" profit focused corporation.
What's wrong with that?
Companies are supposed to make money after all.
That's true, but there are companies that make money because the quality of their product, and there are other companies which rely on average products and good marketing in order to make profit.
Soe started as a company famous for making good quality games and transformed itself in the latter, and the only people paying for it are its customers.
Soe ain't gonna go back to its roots, once the process is started it is irreversible, I know that because I work in a similar company which followed SOE path.
All our meeting are not about how we can increase our product quality making customers happy, instead our decisions are dictated on how we can increase our margin by cutting the product quality and how can we convince our customers to keep buying our product with a good marketing campaign.
This are industry standards, it is not just my company that behave this way, but all the small companies that want to transform themselves in large corporations, have to go through this kind of transition process.
Soe is bad for gamers, because they will change their game to suit the larger player base available, with no respect for previous customers.
As long as the new player base will be larger than the previous one, all the radical changes are welcome and justified.
This kind of mentality is really bad for a MMORPG player, and I really though that Brad and Sigil were totally against it, but apparently I was wrong.
An MMO is not a can of tuna, if the quality of the tuna changes, you might decide not to buy it anymore.
MMOs are a different matter, people invest lots of time in this kind of games.
Leaving a once loved game because it changed radically is a very painful decision, and this shouldn't happen.
And that's why SOE is a very bad choice for Vanguard, mainly because we will never know, what the game will look like in a year time, no matter the game was awesome at launch.
The uncertainty is what will be bad for Vanguard, that's what will taint SOE games from now on.
On a player point of view, those are the reasons why Sigil should not have chosen SOE:
1) Personally I ve been following Vanguard specifically because it had nothing to do with SOE. I am tired of that bunch of greedy w.....ers ruining game after game, in order to make more money, and surely the last thing in this world I wanted was Vanguard being published by SOE.
2) I am not ready to put my effort in a game, knowing that in a year or so the whole game will be nerfed or completely changed in a way that make it impossible to play anymore, therefore wasting again my precious time.
I played EQ, SWG and EQ2, all of them started with a kind of game play and ended up with a totally different game play after a while.
Sorry it ain't gonna happen anymore.
3) I was counting on Brad passion in making a good quality game, without compromises, but with his association with Soe that ain't gonna happen, whether he likes it or not.
I am pretty sure that when Vanguard will be released it will the game Brad has promised.
Unfortunately with their association with Soe, this game will not offer enough guarantee to me that it will stays as originally intended, therefore I am not prepared to gamble my time anymore with another of SOE games.
I just hope that this move will be beneficial to Brad and Sigil, but I doubt so.
I think Sigil alienated a big chunk of their fan base already with this decision.
Personally I dislike Soe so much, I will not play Vanguard, simply because I don't trust that company anymore.
I followed this game since the beginning, and I ve been promoting it in all forums I visited with great pride.
Unfortunately I cannot support a game and a company associated with a money grabbing company like Soe which disregard all of their customers in their "everquest" of making whopping revenues for their investors, trashing every game they produce regardless the player base agrees or not with it.
I just want to finish this long thread with a gem from one of SWG developers after SOE introduced NGE.
John Torres: "If you don't like the changes go and play another game".
That's the kind of people Sigil will be associated with.
Good luck all.
I am sorry but SOE choice as a Publisher replacement is the worse decision Sigil could make.
First of all I just wanted to say that I understand the reasons why Sigil made such decision.
Vanguards is an ambitious game and require all the logistic back up that companies like SOE can offer, in order to offer a smooth service.
After the departure of MS, I understand why Sigil had to find another heavy weight that could support their game in order to make it successful.
Having said that, no matter what the very good reasons were, this decision is the worse Sigil could make.
There are other good MMORPG publishers around nowadays; NCSoft is the best company around at the moment.
They give complete autonomy to their developers and they are just happy to publish the game without interfering with developer’s decision.
Another emerging company is Webzen, really big in China who recently opened offices in US and is planning to expand worldwide like NCSoft did.
Even Mythic could have been a better choice, very serious company although it has only 1 game in its portfolio (but Warhammer in development, which will be a big hit.)
Those could be good choices as MS replacement.
Another option could have been Sigil going alone, like other small companies did (CCP/EVE, Funcom/AO, Mythic/DAOC).
Every option could have been ideal except the selection of SOE as publisher partner.
Why?
There are reasons why people hate SOE, and are all very good reasons, this has nothing to do with the fact that lately there is a trend to slag big corporations.
The main reason why SOE is so bad is that it has lost its main focus on producing good quality games, and transformed itself in a "hardcore" profit focused corporation.
What's wrong with that?
Companies are supposed to make money after all.
That's true, but there are companies that make money because the quality of their product, and there are other companies which rely on average products and good marketing in order to make profit.
Soe started as a company famous for making good quality games and transformed itself in the latter, and the only people paying for it are its customers.
Soe ain't gonna go back to its roots, once the process is started it is irreversible, I know that because I work in a similar company which followed SOE path.
All our meeting are not about how we can increase our product quality making customers happy, instead our decisions are dictated on how we can increase our margin by cutting the product quality and how can we convince our customers to keep buying our product with a good marketing campaign.
This are industry standards, it is not just my company that behave this way, but all the small companies that want to transform themselves in large corporations, have to go through this kind of transition process.
Soe is bad for gamers, because they will change their game to suit the larger player base available, with no respect for previous customers.
As long as the new player base will be larger than the previous one, all the radical changes are welcome and justified.
This kind of mentality is really bad for a MMORPG player, and I really though that Brad and Sigil were totally against it, but apparently I was wrong.
An MMO is not a can of tuna, if the quality of the tuna changes, you might decide not to buy it anymore.
MMOs are a different matter, people invest lots of time in this kind of games.
Leaving a once loved game because it changed radically is a very painful decision, and this shouldn't happen.
And that's why SOE is a very bad choice for Vanguard, mainly because we will never know, what the game will look like in a year time, no matter the game was awesome at launch.
The uncertainty is what will be bad for Vanguard, that's what will taint SOE games from now on.
On a player point of view, those are the reasons why Sigil should not have chosen SOE:
1) Personally I ve been following Vanguard specifically because it had nothing to do with SOE. I am tired of that bunch of greedy w.....ers ruining game after game, in order to make more money, and surely the last thing in this world I wanted was Vanguard being published by SOE.
2) I am not ready to put my effort in a game, knowing that in a year or so the whole game will be nerfed or completely changed in a way that make it impossible to play anymore, therefore wasting again my precious time.
I played EQ, SWG and EQ2, all of them started with a kind of game play and ended up with a totally different game play after a while.
Sorry it ain't gonna happen anymore.
3) I was counting on Brad passion in making a good quality game, without compromises, but with his association with Soe that ain't gonna happen, whether he likes it or not.
I am pretty sure that when Vanguard will be released it will the game Brad has promised.
Unfortunately with their association with Soe, this game will not offer enough guarantee to me that it will stays as originally intended, therefore I am not prepared to gamble my time anymore with another of SOE games.
I just hope that this move will be beneficial to Brad and Sigil, but I doubt so.
I think Sigil alienated a big chunk of their fan base already with this decision.
Personally I dislike Soe so much, I will not play Vanguard, simply because I don't trust that company anymore.
I followed this game since the beginning, and I ve been promoting it in all forums I visited with great pride.
Unfortunately I cannot support a game and a company associated with a money grabbing company like Soe which disregard all of their customers in their "everquest" of making whopping revenues for their investors, trashing every game they produce regardless the player base agrees or not with it.
I just want to finish this long thread with a gem from one of SWG developers after SOE introduced NGE.
John Torres: "If you don't like the changes go and play another game".
That's the kind of people Sigil will be associated with.
Good luck all.
Comments
--------Soe is bad for gamers, because they will change their game to suit the larger player base available, with no respect for previous customers.----------
No offense, but that is by far the dumbest statement I have ever read here, ever. MORE people playing and enjoying a game is BAD FOR GAMERS???
I have a task for you, and any other SoE drama queens, tell us SPECIFIC examples of things SOE did that was sooo terrible (I'll give you SWG since I never played that), I haven't played any SoE game since EQ1 and never had a problem with them, so I really want to see. Not a fanboy or a hater, just never decided on games based purely on company that's publishing them, I play games that are fun to me not who makes them.
Now these examples can't be something of just opinion, like "I didn't really like x" because some things you might not like many many people did like (EQ2 changes for example, most people LIKED them). I'm talking straight facts on changes / things they did that are 100% proof they wanted to fuck you. All I've been seeing is "SoE is bad!" without any reason as to WHY besides vague things like "they wrecked EQ", I want to know HOW they wrecked it.
and go.
You must be living in a cave if you need someone to point out just one specific thing SOE did that was bad, yet then you admittedly acknowledge that apparently they did do some bad things in regards to SWG. /boggle
Anyways I agree with the OP that Sigil's decision to associate with SOE is a huge mistake from a marketing perspective, and certainly could influence the end product both at release and down the road in a negative way.
Forgetting the past leads to future mistakes.
/laugh
SWG is enough, dontcha think? Read the
SWG forum on MMORPG.com for the skinny.
I considered playing SWG just before CU, and I am eternally thankful to all those posters who welcomed me to SWG but told me to wait for the CU before deciding to join the game
. Thus, I escaped all the drama that led to NGE.
As for EQ, the release of SoL [Shadows of Luclin] ruined the game for me. Fortunately, I wasn't around for PoP [Planes of Power]. As Ianubisi said,
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
That makes no sense. Try reading. I NEVER PLAYED SWG so I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt on that since I have no idea on it.
Give me specific examples in Everquest, for example, that made it so unbelievably terrible. And I don't want just one, with the amount of drama you cry-babies spew forth about this SOE had to have done like a million things wrong. Give me many.
Here is a fantastic way to game, invented by me, play games based on fun factor, not on companies.
All the 3 of them started with a specific gameplay and changed to a completely new one.
If you played SWG, you can apply the same process to EQ and EQ2, but while for SWG was a drastic chance, for EQ and EQ2 the change happened overtime so most people didn't noticed.
In SWG the chance was so drastic everyone noticed it.
Again, if you want to waste your time play Soe games, it is your time after all.
As a Soe veteran, I can tell you what it will happen sooner or later.
I don't hate Soe because it is a big corporation, I don't like it just because it is a bad one, as simple as that.
i hear ya man, i agree it was a awful choice.........it pisses me off to, but I'm probably still ganna play......if it turns out like shit ill just play something els *shrugs*
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
/laugh
SWG is enough, dontcha think? Read the
SWG forum on MMORPG.com for the skinny.
I considered playing SWG just before CU, and I am eternally thankful to all those posters who welcomed me to SWG but told me to wait for the CU before deciding to join the game
. Thus, I escaped all the drama that led to NGE.
As for EQ, the release of SoL [Shadows of Luclin] ruined the game for me. Fortunately, I wasn't around for PoP [Planes of Power]. As Ianubisi said,
Regards,
Riotgirl
Shadows of Luclin was pretty fun to me, so that's purely opinion, PoP was fun too. those arent game breaking hatred changes.
I said besides SWG since I HAVE NEVER PLAYED IT SO HAVE NO EXPERIENCE BEFORE OR AFTER SOE. <--- Is that so hard to understand? People are saying they ruined EVERY GAME they touched, so I want to know HOW, mainly EQ since that's the one I have most experience with.
Seriously, point out some things, hell, what in SoL didnt you like?
All the 3 of them started with a specific gameplay and changed to a completely new one.
If you played SWG, you can apply the same process to EQ and EQ2, but while for SWG was a drastic chance, for EQ and EQ2 the change happened overtime so most people didn't noticed.
In SWG the chance was so drastic everyone noticed it.
Again, if you want to waste your time play Soe games, it is your time after all.
As a Soe veteran, I can tell you what it will happen sooner or later.
I don't hate Soe because it is a big corporation, I don't like it just because it is a bad one, as simple as that.
So far the responses have been vague like "they changed game". I said SPECIFIC. Or can noone come up with something specific? Just "They changed game"? WHAT gameplay in EQ changed so much?
I'm not trying to defend SoE or anything, I dont care for them good or bad, I just really want to know WHAT was changed that is so terrible, because it seems like someone decided SoE was bad and every jumped on a bandwagon and came along, without knowing WHY.
EDIT: I played EQ up until just before the expansion AFTER PoP, so whatever was changed thatw as so terrible previous to then gets bonus points, since I may have experienced them. Off the top of my head I didn't find anything that was changed so terrible to make me hate them in that time so I want to see what made you all hate them, besides reading the internet and taking others opinions as your own.
I totally agree - which is why I give my money to companies that will produce that fun factor, or any other product that I want. The release of SoL expansion for EQ removed that "fun factor" for me, and SoE's track record suggest that their titles will not produce that "fun factor".
I no longer have confidence that Vanguard will provide that "fun factor", hence have decided to not to play it and look for another product that will produce that "fun factor", for me at least.
Here's a question for you: if a company produces x number of games or products that do not interest you, why on earth would you be vaguely interested in its latest product? It is highly unlikely that no matter how good that product, you are part of that company's demographic.
Take it away Shirely!
he word is about, there's something evolving,
whatever may come, the world keeps revolving
They say the next big thing is here,
that the revolution's near,
but to me it seems quite clear
that it's all just a little bit of history repeating
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
If their decisions did indeed lead to more players enjoying the game.. you might be right. However, they have consistently led to a decline in subscriptions and a generally buggier experience. Time and again they have shown that they do not understand what the players want. And they have a pr oven track record for digging the hole even deeper in their attempts to hide their initial bad judgments.
Since you asked.. I will give you just a few things they did with SWG, it's important to understand that these changes were kept secret until they were fully ready to implement, and then added to the live game despite overwhelming lack of support.
SWG character development now consists of exactly ONE choice. You choose one of 9 professions and you do not get make any other choices the rest of the game as far as skills and abilities go. There were previously over 20 professions with the ability to mix and match skills from different tracks, within the alloted number of skill points. They also, in the same "enhancements" removed target lock from the game and replaced it with a very poor version of a third person shooter. This all took place years in to a live game, and NONE of it was requested or welcomed by the majority of the player base.
But... it really doesn't matter. People can make up their own mind about SOE. Please respect the right of some of us to choose not to do business with them.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
I totally agree - which is why I give my money to companies that will produce that fun factor, or any other product that I want. The release of SoL expansion for EQ removed that "fun factor" for me, and SoE's track record suggest that their titles will not produce that "fun factor".
I no longer have confidence that Vanguard will provide that "fun factor", hence have decided to not to play it and look for another product that will produce that "fun factor", for me at least.
Here's a question for you: if a company produces x number of games or products that do not interest you, why on earth would you be vaguely interested in its latest product? It is highly unlikely that no matter how good that product, you are part of that company's demographic.
Take it away Shirely!
he word is about, there's something evolving,
whatever may come, the world keeps revolving
They say the next big thing is here,
that the revolution's near,
but to me it seems quite clear
that it's all just a little bit of history repeating
Regards,
Riotgirl
Blizzard made tons of games, I found two extremely fun, and the rest boring.
EA makes a crapload of boring games, but I enjoy Battlefield2, and NHL hockey.
All game companies make games that are boring to me, I don't look and see "Hey it's made by Blizzard, I didn't like Warcraft so I won't even try World of Warcraft", instead I tried WoW and played it for a year, enjoyed it then. Didn't really like Warcraft though. I also didnt like really any EA games, didnt stop me from trying Battlefield 2, and still play it ALOT cuz I find it fun, other EA games werent fun to me.
I'll try Vanguard, if it's boring I won'y play it, if it's fun I will. I'm not on welfare so I can infact afford to buy a game and only play it for a week or whatever.
If their decisions did indeed lead to more players enjoying the game.. you might be right. However, they have consistently led to a decline in subscriptions and a generally buggier experience. Time and again they have shown that they do not understand what the players want. And they have a pr oven track record for digging the hole even deeper in their attempts to hide their initial bad judgments.
Since you asked.. I will give you just a few things they did with SWG, it's important to understand that these changes were kept secret until they were fully ready to implement, and then added to the live game despite overwhelming lack of support.
SWG character development now consists of exactly ONE choice. You choose one of 9 professions and you do not get make any other choices the rest of the game as far as skills and abilities go. There were previously over 20 professions with the ability to mix and match skills from different tracks, within the alloted number of skill points. They also, in the same "enhancements" removed target lock from the game and replaced it with a very poor version of a third person shooter. This all took place years in to a live game, and NONE of it was requested or welcomed by the majority of the player base.
But... it really doesn't matter. People can make up their own mind about SOE. Please respect the right of some of us to choose not to do business with them.
See that is what I was looking for! Thank you for the information.
Even though I havent experienced it, it does seem like a brutal change. but I want more!
Anyone have anything from Everquest that was so drastically changed? I got the SWG info, but according to the people here, they ruined every game!
Also I do respect your decision to not play, just seems weird you wont even try it purely based on a company, it could be the best MMO created ever, but you will never know!
All the 3 of them started with a specific gameplay and changed to a completely new one.
If you played SWG, you can apply the same process to EQ and EQ2, but while for SWG was a drastic chance, for EQ and EQ2 the change happened overtime so most people didn't noticed.
In SWG the chance was so drastic everyone noticed it.
Again, if you want to waste your time play Soe games, it is your time after all.
As a Soe veteran, I can tell you what it will happen sooner or later.
I don't hate Soe because it is a big corporation, I don't like it just because it is a bad one, as simple as that.
So far the responses have been vague like "they changed game". I said SPECIFIC. Or can noone come up with something specific? Just "They changed game"? WHAT gameplay in EQ changed so much?
I'm not trying to defend SoE or anything, I dont care for them good or bad, I just really want to know WHAT was changed that is so terrible, because it seems like someone decided SoE was bad and every jumped on a bandwagon and came along, without knowing WHY.
If you played SWG you will know what I am talking about.
If you did, just apply the same kind of changes to the other 2.
I really don't have time to list the thousands changes made in EQ and the hundreds made in EQ2.
In SWG you just need to say NGE and CU and everyone understand what you are talking about.
For EQ and EQ2 you don't have such a reference because the changes happened over time and they were made at small doses.
Just to make it simple, they turned challenging and complex games into more casual games easier to play, so they could reach a wider player base.
From crafting, raiding, combats, to adding more restrictions so even the less skilled and experienced players could enjoy the game.
I don't have nothing against casual games.
What I am against is when a game start catering for one kind of players and then ends up for another one.
If a game is for hardcore players needs to stay that way through all its lifetime.
The same will apply for casual, core and any other subgenre of games.
In MMOs you need to be consistent, you cannot transform a product radically like SOE did with all its games.
>Also I do respect your decision to not play, just seems weird you wont even try it purely based on a company, it could be the best MMO created ever, but you will never know!
I am actually boycotting all Sony products.... Not just SOE but Sony in general.... which can be difficult when movies and music are considred... but I needed an excuse to pirate more stuff
The problem with SWG wasn't just the changes they made, it was the way they responded to their own customers reactions. They honestly tell us that we don't know what we want from a game... and that these changes were for our own good. They have to know the NGE was a huge mistake, but they can't admit it. They spent too much time and money on it to take it back... even if it meant the death of the game. It is a matter of principle for me not to give them any more of my money. I know that my 45 bucks a month in MMO fees isn't going to break Sony, but all i can do is my part. If enough people stop sending them cash, maybe they will learn to listen to their customers more and treat them better.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
If you did, just apply the same kind of changes to the other 2.
I really don't have time to list the thousands changes made in EQ and the hundreds made in EQ2.
In SWG you just need to say NGE and CU and everyone understand what you are talking about.
For EQ and EQ2 you don't have such a reference because the changes happened over time and they were made at small doses.
Just to make it simple, they turned challenging and complex games into more casual games easier to play, so they could reach a wider player base.
From crafting, raiding, combats, to adding more restrictions so even the less skilled and experienced players could enjoy the game.
I don't have nothing against casual games.
What I am against is when a game start catering for one kind of players and then ends up for another one.
If a game is for hardcore players needs to stay that way through all its lifetime.
The same will apply for casual, core and any other subgenre of games.
In MMOs you need to be consistent, you cannot transform a product radically like SOE did with all its games.
See that (to me) makes sense for SOE to do, reaching a wider playerbase is a GOOD THING for them. Why would they want 100k people when they could have 500k people?
And from the time I played EQ (4 years long) the only thing that changed making things "easier and less complex" was the fact that after AA's and more levels old old old old content like NToV was super easy, but the NEW content was challenging. I did NToV JUST after SoL came out and it wasn't super easy, but not super hard, but after PoP it was like 1 groupable, but it makes sense, can't really make content 4 years old become harder because then instead of YOU being pissed about it the people who want to just start NToV get pissed and start posting anti SoE stuff.
And how does what was mentioned earlier about SWG class changing / skills change apply with EQ? Pretty sure at the start of the game you picked one class and played it, and nothing has changed since. Honestly curious! I can see sort of how it may apply to Eq2 (now you just choose your starting class instead of leveling up and choosing specifics as you go), but EQ2s seems like a good change to me also since before you had to level to 20, then if you didnt enjoy the class, level up ANOTHER guy to 20 and try another, now you know earlier, more time plaiyng the class you like.
EDIT: BTW might want to ditch the sig and Avatar =p
From the Official Forums:
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51141&page=2
I'm actually starting to laugh at this own kerfuffle now! If anything, this is fantastic drama. I'm not sure if people will feel more reassured after Smedley commented.
Regards,
Riotgirl
"If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."
Im pretty sure Sigil could have went to Ubisoft. With ubisoft being freed of shadowbane, they would definitely consider vanguard a good bet as a replacement. even vivendi could published it under sierra entertainment name.. Sega is another, Midway another, THQ maybe another i bet activision would too. alot of publishers are sure out there looking a way to boost their revenue.
for SOE getting this was a bad move. the customer service would really hurt this game. i could see it now, thousands will leave all due SOE poor CS. Sigil should have used their own CS instead.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51141&page=2
I'm actually starting to laugh at this own kerfuffle now! If anything, this is fantastic drama. I'm not sure if people will feel more reassured after Smedley commented.
Regards,
Riotgirl
Don't bring facts here! The Drama queens were giving me much entertainment at 4am =p
ps Salvatoris and STE dude seem cool though, not including them in the drama queens! And you (Riotgirl) also!
EDIT: you know what else is weird? In 4 years of Eq I've never had a problem in which I had to deal with customer service. I must be amazing at Intergaming.
If their decisions did indeed lead to more players enjoying the game.. you might be right. However, they have consistently led to a decline in subscriptions and a generally buggier experience. Time and again they have shown that they do not understand what the players want. And they have a pr oven track record for digging the hole even deeper in their attempts to hide their initial bad judgments.
Since you asked.. I will give you just a few things they did with SWG, it's important to understand that these changes were kept secret until they were fully ready to implement, and then added to the live game despite overwhelming lack of support.
SWG character development now consists of exactly ONE choice. You choose one of 9 professions and you do not get make any other choices the rest of the game as far as skills and abilities go. There were previously over 20 professions with the ability to mix and match skills from different tracks, within the alloted number of skill points. They also, in the same "enhancements" removed target lock from the game and replaced it with a very poor version of a third person shooter. This all took place years in to a live game, and NONE of it was requested or welcomed by the majority of the player base.
But... it really doesn't matter. People can make up their own mind about SOE. Please respect the right of some of us to choose not to do business with them.
See that is what I was looking for! Thank you for the information.
Even though I havent experienced it, it does seem like a brutal change. but I want more!
Anyone have anything from Everquest that was so drastically changed? I got the SWG info, but according to the people here, they ruined every game!
Also I do respect your decision to not play, just seems weird you wont even try it purely based on a company, it could be the best MMO created ever, but you will never know!
He did neglect to say , They are adding in a new way to spec your characters to ensure unique qualities , and abilities . He also didn't say due to much player feedback they have constructed a new Upgrade for combat to bring back alot of what is missing (testing begins next week ) .
The thing I don't get is people don't realize this is only for publishing not development , The development is out of Sony's hands . So regardless it will be what it was going to be quality wise . Sony is not at Fault for how bad the game sucks if it does, Or they also would have no hand in( if it turns out to be ) A success .
Eq2 for the most part is still the same game . The only thing I notice they changed was the first tier of leveling . Now you pick your arch type from the start rather than at lvl 20 (aside from random nerfs ,that all games suffer ) I don't see anything much different than at launch . Except maybe far less Bugs . I played SWG from August 03 until Oct of 05 , What was done to SWG is hardly reason for such outrage . That was at fault of SWG's developers and Lucasarts . Not Sigil and Sonys' Publishing agency .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Specifics SWG one example. The game was out for 3 years it had a dedicated community of players who spent 3 years crafting armors, weapons, doc buffs, chef foods, setting up guilds with some having 250+ players, creating pvp events, dedicated entertainers who were needed and usefull. However the game was buggy in parts and lacked content which they never bothered even fixing for 3 years. They then announced a combat upgrade which not only changed the combat but affected every single element of the game from crafting to professions. It changed the whole core game.
Now when this CU was being implemented it was on a test server for about 2 weeks before it was pushed live it wasn't even tested properly tons of bugs and imbalances. Never the less it went live and because it was so buggy it bought 5 / 6 servers down for up to a week. They then had to perform a roll back to 2 weeks before it went live meaning players lost any thing they gained from the last 2 weeks of play and they recieved not so much as a sorry from SOE.
Then a few months later they announced the NGE which was a covertly produced combat upgrade for the combat upgrade they just added. It had no player input, the community wasn't even aware of its existance. They designed it around the input from focus testers who weren't even players. They removed most of the 32 professions and left 9 "iconic" professions. Stuck with the level based advance ment made the game quest based but left players in the lurch as they weren't even quests in the game to continously get to lvl 90.
They shafted crafters and destroyed the economy in favour of a loot based economy. Crafted items were pants compared to looted stuff plus the items didn't decay any more result crafters made obsolete along with entertainers. The combat and game is and was broken and was more unblananced then the original game. They basically stated they didn't care about losing veterans and were focusing on a new target audience which they never got and lost more players then anticipated. People who basically spent 3 years having fun got everything they played for kind of ruined so in the end they had nothing to show for it.
Thats just one example forgive any spelling mistakes etc i'm doing 4 things at once at work.
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Thanks for more information!
That's why I wouldn't pre-order, but I would (and still will) probably buy it to try, unless there are drastic bad changes before release!
SOE and NGE-Star Wars Galalaxies:
Raph Koster: "It's like dumping the girlfriend who has always been patient and loving to chase after the supermodel who probably won't love you back."
Isn't that just logic though? What else is he gonna say? If you don't like the changes keep paying and playing?