Yes friends, no matter how you slice it, Combat Revamp number 3 is coming to SWG...

Echobe

Rogue_5's Comlink May 5th, 2006: Combat Changes

Of course the devs won't call it the 3rd revamp, but that's exactly what it is...

Shayde

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

More cancellations!

Edmonde

too little too late...

but I agree now the 13 year olds will now cancel

daeandor

I dunno, better combat means better gameplay if it actually happens like I am imagining.  If combat in itself became less boring, I might consider resubscribing to check it out.  As it stands right now, the only thing I miss of SWG is space and a few of the people (some of which no longer play either).  Of course there is always the problem of SOE implementing changes to the core combat....

duncan_922

Combat, combat and more combat...   They just keep concentrating on combat!!!  

This goes in deep contrast to Smed's supposed top 5 priorities.  But SOE and Smed lie????   NEVER!!!  

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=633225#M633225

Bissrok

Well, fixing bugs has never really been their "thing". They've always been the radical, game-breaking changes type.

Shayde

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Originally posted by daeandor
I dunno, better combat means better gameplay if it actually happens like I am imagining. If combat in itself became less boring, I might consider resubscribing to check it out. As it stands right now, the only thing I miss of SWG is space and a few of the people (some of which no longer play either). Of course there is always the problem of SOE implementing changes to the core combat....

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Yes, but you fail to realize, every time they revamp the thing to make it "better" it gets much much worse.

What.. third time's a charm?

What did Einstein define insanity as.. getting the same results every time and thinking it'll turn out different next time?

War_Dancer

I don't see how any of that will make the gameplay better. Some random calculations behind the interface based on some player stats won't make the game any more 'tactical' unless you consider getting your stat points right in a min max way to be 'tactical' and it actuelly is a way to make the FPS part worse. Its a combat system that can't decide what it really wants to be and it shows.

Echobe

That's all dependant on if they ever impliment these changes, and if they do it is gonna be awhile and when/if it happens, chances are it's going to be exploding with bugs just like anything else they have done lately. I am convinced there are very few devs actually working on SWG right now. That, or their current developers are code novices or the code has become so garbled from revamps huge bugs are unavoidable now.

Regardless of all that. This is the third time they have changed the base mechanics and concepts of combat. They just can't stop screwing up the game more and more, which is fine by me SWG needs to be put out of it's mysery ASAP. I do feel sorry for current subscribers though, especially the crafters and entertainers. They are the ones that made the SWG community so amazing and SOE just continues to bend them over...

War_Dancer

Continuesly redoing the core combat engine will kill it sooner or later. All that effort that could have been put into adding more and more content and game systems that let players entertain themselves and pulling ahead of any other MMO that comes out instead wasted on redoing the same part of the game over and over and making it easy for new MMOs with better graphics to match their game features.

kairaene

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Originally posted by Helios_SOE:

Considering the control scheme in SWG it will be difficult to execute a
variety of specials AND run around at the same time ( movement being
the primary left hand responsibility while the right hand is busy
aiming with the mouse). This means that moving in combat actually
becomes an "action" (conceptually speaking) you take to effect the
outcome of a fight (much like executing specials). In other words, a
player now chooses whether to stand and fight (increased DPS through
more criticals and use of specials) or run around to be harder to hit
because of the targeting scheme as well as the increased chance of
glancing blows (see below). Running around becomes a defensive action
that one does instead of offensively using specials.

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Thats an utter bs reason.  So, now we have to choose to stand and fight or consider the uber choice of moving around unable to fire specials while aiming because they wont let us have a target lock.  My exact reply to Helios is:

Helios I dont see moving as a real option in combat.  So, now were
playing a game of chicken?  See who moves first so they cant fire
specials while they other stays rooted and fires/heals all they need.  


I should be able to move and fire at the same time.  This is an
integral part of an fps.  Giving the excuse of "moving is a defensive
action" is just a lame way of saying we cant get around moving and
firing specials at the same time without giving you back target lock. 

Thats why this game was never meant to be an fps.  /sigh

War_Dancer

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Originally posted by kairaene

Thats why this game was never meant to be an fps.  /sigh

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And it still isn't, a FPS would never let you shoot through your teammates to hit the enemy, a FPS wouldn't make you have to click exactly on the target to fire your gun. Honestly the NGE when I tested it was the worst version of a FPS I've ever seen and I've played a few that have RPG skills that effected combat.

iceman00

Well fanbois, have fun trusting $OE!

Even if some people "don't see this as a big combat upgrade" here's the issue.  They promised to fix bugs.  They got the fanbois shorts wet with glee, and now they are reverting to typical $OE.  They are going to forego fixing bugs to adding other things to make it more "exciting" and "starwarsy"

Kyler1138

Well this explains what they will have to show at E3, no way they cold have put the existing combat system out for everyone there to see, they'd be laughed out the building.

Sounds like they are going to show a video of some canned action on the new system but not actually let anyone try it. I bet it looks amazingly like the pre-CU/CU version when they show it.

Torak

One thing SWG has an advantage that will cause many to hang on for dear life while they whirl it around and rip it up again is this.

Its the only real "sci fi" title out there.

EVE has no ground

Anarchy has no space

Planetside is a FPS

Unfortunately SWG is the only that "has it all"

Everything else is an endless stream of fantasy garbage. Don't get me wrong, I like fantasy but really, we need another fantasy based MMO like trees need more leaves.

It sucks but because there is no competition now and none upcoming they can do what they want.

Thats why I don't believe in attacking fans of the game or people who play it. Its not their fault Sony is doing this. All they want is a true Sci Fi game, is that to much to ask for?

Come on Sony give us a break and fix / finish the game

kairaene

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Originally posted by iceman00

Well fanbois, have fun trusting $OE!
Even if some people "don't see this as a big combat upgrade" here's the issue.  They promised to fix bugs.  They got the fanbois shorts wet with glee, and now they are reverting to typical $OE.  They are going to forego fixing bugs to adding other things to make it more "exciting" and "starwarsy"

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Well, honestly slowing down combat and basing damage off of weapons were major complaints from people.  Basically Helios saw the fastest way to get rid of jerky animations was to slow them down and just tweak weapon damage.  

Vexin

It takes intelligence and memory to recognize mistakes.  It takes humility and self-respect to correct them.  SOE lacks all of these attributes (and more).  All they are doing now is slowly coming to the realisation that things worked better in past (pre-NGE) publishes, and feeding that back into the eager mouths of the current subscribers as "new content."

Dammit, SOE, go back to publish-8 Galaxies, and try it again.  I think I'd forgive you almost everything if you did that.  It would show a noticable kernel of professionalism, and a modicum of care for your customers, and it could be the first step in the long, arduous, character-building journey of re-establishing the trust of so many thousands of your customers.

I know, I know.  Have another beer. 

demolishIX

   They are trying to bring back some of the CU/pre CU stuff lol...SOE never works,we will be adding new loot that will be very iconic and starwarsy,some of it will be glow stick of stormtrooper slaying (the saber vader uses during breaks to kill storm troopers to pass the time),the new super duper uber cool mega pwn jinda staff (looks like a normal wooden staff),we will be adding exciting new combat animations (fire animation 1 wave hand, fire animation 2 wave hand,fire animation 3 wave hand)...

    DOWN WITH SOE !!!!!   

daeandor

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Originally posted by Shayde


Originally posted by daeandor
I dunno, better combat means better gameplay if it actually happens like I am imagining. If combat in itself became less boring, I might consider resubscribing to check it out. As it stands right now, the only thing I miss of SWG is space and a few of the people (some of which no longer play either). Of course there is always the problem of SOE implementing changes to the core combat....

Yes, but you fail to realize, every time they revamp the thing to make it "better" it gets much much worse.

What.. third time's a charm?

What did Einstein define insanity as.. getting the same results every time and thinking it'll turn out different next time?

---

Um, no, that is what my last sentence is about, with the "..." for thought about the many times they have screwed it up.  But, I will throw this in:  when the game was first introduced it sucked but slowly got better, when the CU came out it sucked but slowly got better, when NGE came out it sucked and slowly got better.  The reason "everyone" thinks pre-CU was the best was because it had the longest "fix" cycle and had gone from "the suck", to playable, to enjoyable.  Pre-CU had about 2 year cycle (including beta), CU had ~10 months and had basically become playable, and NGE has had ~6 months and this proposed change might just bring it to the playable point again.

LilT

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Originally posted by daeandor

Originally posted by Shayde


Originally posted by daeandor
I dunno, better combat means better gameplay if it actually happens like I am imagining. If combat in itself became less boring, I might consider resubscribing to check it out. As it stands right now, the only thing I miss of SWG is space and a few of the people (some of which no longer play either). Of course there is always the problem of SOE implementing changes to the core combat....

Yes, but you fail to realize, every time they revamp the thing to make it "better" it gets much much worse.

What.. third time's a charm?

What did Einstein define insanity as.. getting the same results every time and thinking it'll turn out different next time?

---

Um, no, that is what my last sentence is about, with the "..." for thought about the many times they have screwed it up.  But, I will throw this in:  when the game was first introduced it sucked but slowly got better, when the CU came out it sucked but slowly got better, when NGE came out it sucked and slowly got better.  The reason "everyone" thinks pre-CU was the best was because it had the longest "fix" cycle and had gone from "the suck", to playable, to enjoyable.  Pre-CU had about 2 year cycle (including beta), CU had ~10 months and had basically become playable, and NGE has had ~6 months and this proposed change might just bring it to the playable point again.

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nope, pre-cu got worse over time, not better, because the soe dev team has no idea how to run a game. The original pre-cu game was not designed by soe, the nge and cu were and i wouldnt ever call them in any stage playable, but thats just me.

Vexin

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Originally posted by LilT

nope, pre-cu got worse over time, not better, because the soe dev team has no idea how to run a game. The original pre-cu game was not designed by soe, the nge and cu were and i wouldnt ever call them in any stage playable, but thats just me.

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Good point.  What ever happened to the Verant crew?  I'm sure they all siphoned away from SOE over time, but did the bulk of the original brilliance that created SWG end up anywhere?

chlaos

This fiasco would be humorous if its wasnt so sad.....

Squidi

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Originally posted by Echobe

Rogue_5's Comlink May 5th, 2006: Combat Changes
Of course the devs won't call it the 3rd revamp, but that's exactly what it is...

---

Um... this isn't a revamp. There are some tweaks and changes, but a revamp would require significant changes to the underlying system. They've been talking about this for a few months. Please, when the expertise trees and targetting helper start showing up, don't start calling them revamps too.

Distopia

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Originally posted by iceman00

Well fanbois, have fun trusting $OE!
Even if some people "don't see this as a big combat upgrade" here's the issue.  They promised to fix bugs.  They got the fanbois shorts wet with glee, and now they are reverting to typical $OE.  They are going to forego fixing bugs to adding other things to make it more "exciting" and "starwarsy"

---

Well How I understand it , This is simply what a lot of the player base has been asking for (aside from a roll back) . Their "goal" is to put a more RPGish system in over top of the NGE's combat . So it really isn't a revamp it is more an add on . Either way Bug fixes are part of the development plan , With a substantial amount of fixes with each publish . This new system may not even go in the game , It has nothing to do with the publish plan Devs have said so themselves .

Distopia

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Originally posted by Rhoklaw

Ok, I played SWG for like the first 6 months, tops, then quit. I don't really know why I quit, but I did none the less. I think it was the fact you only had 1 character slot per server or something stupid like that. Anyway, I read the article about the planned combat changes and from what I'm understanding, is they are fixing combat because of your complaints about the previous changes. So, you guys whine and screamed your heads off about them changing the combat system and cancelled your accounts to show you were serious. Now, they have come to realize that hey, they made a very vital mistake and people really are leaving. Therefor, they decide to make changes that should better suit the old combat style veterans. Yet, here you folks are, screaming about changes once again and half of you say your not even playing it. How do you know the new changes aren't good? Kind of hard to say somethings a bad idea if you don't atleast visit the game world, dont ya think?
Anyhow, before you think about going back, wait for that 14 day free return pass when they activate old accounts again, for the billionth time, go try it out and then come back here and say if the changes that aren't even in yet, suck. Until then, put a clamp on it. This coming from someone who hasn't even touched SWG in over 2 years. Oh yeah, I remember another reason I left, CM/Riflemen were over powered.
Take care folks...

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Well said .

War_Dancer

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Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Anyhow, before you think about going back, wait for that 14 day free return pass when they activate old accounts again, for the billionth time, go try it out and then come back here and say if the changes that aren't even in yet, suck. Until then, put a clamp on it. This coming from someone who hasn't even touched SWG in over 2 years. Oh yeah, I remember another reason I left, CM/Riflemen were over powered.
Take care folks...

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I think the changes are funny because they are making it less of a FPS (slowing combat down and moving is now and action so your not meant to hit as much!) and are lots of maths calculations that will make no difference to combat (those critical and glancing blows won't make any difference to how you fight). Also its kinda funny to see them slowing combat down when one reason they gave for the NGE was that it wasn't fast enough and new players would get bored. They are just making up changes to the game as they go, no overall vision for the game apart from a mytical more players out there somewhere that just want one more change to the combat for it to be their favorite game!

All that said I'd never start playing SWG again or any other SoE game. I'm here just because the drama is kinda amusing.