Originally posted by Rhoklaw Anyway, I read the article about the planned combat changes and from what I'm understanding, is they are fixing combat because of your complaints about the previous changes.
Also your asuming people quit because of the combat changes and not lets say reducing 32 professions to 9. Reducing a semi skill tree system to a cookie cutter class system or the fact they are changing it into a loot based adventure game instead of a sandbox game. The combat being the worst version of a FPS ever isn't close to the only reason people quit SWG.
I've just lost nearly 700 million ISK in EVE Online, not including the T2 mods, however on reading about this new combat revamp in SWG it's really cheered up my day.
I almost p***ed myself laughing!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, I played SWG for like the first 6 months, tops, then quit. I don't really know why I quit, but I did none the less. I think it was the fact you only had 1 character slot per server or something stupid like that. Anyway, I read the article about the planned combat changes and from what I'm understanding, is they are fixing combat because of your complaints about the previous changes. So, you guys whine and screamed your heads off about them changing the combat system and cancelled your accounts to show you were serious. Now, they have come to realize that hey, they made a very vital mistake and people really are leaving. Therefor, they decide to make changes that should better suit the old combat style veterans. Yet, here you folks are, screaming about changes once again and half of you say your not even playing it. How do you know the new changes aren't good? Kind of hard to say somethings a bad idea if you don't atleast visit the game world, dont ya think? Anyhow, before you think about going back, wait for that 14 day free return pass when they activate old accounts again, for the billionth time, go try it out and then come back here and say if the changes that aren't even in yet, suck. Until then, put a clamp on it. This coming from someone who hasn't even touched SWG in over 2 years. Oh yeah, I remember another reason I left, CM/Riflemen were over powered. Take care folks...
Welcome to the SWG forums
Anyway these changes are going on TC late this week, so I'll post an update about what it's like. Ultimately though it's just them turning the speed dial down a bit, putting all the damage that was in the level back into the weapon and then re-coding the special system to so it works more reliably. Not what I would call a combat upgrade...
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Therefor, they decide to make changes that should better suit the old combat style veterans. Yet, here you folks are, screaming about changes once again and half of you say your not even playing it. How do you know the new changes aren't good? Kind of hard to say somethings a bad idea if you don't atleast visit the game world, dont ya think?
Answer (borrowed from another thread):
Originally posted by Agricola1
"fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".
I love to see that they are active in the forums, FOR ONCE!!! But It's too late now. And another change is only going to make them look more like the fools they have become.
Even though I'd say anything would be better than the NGE.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, I played SWG for like the first 6 months, tops, then quit. I don't really know why I quit, but I did none the less. I think it was the fact you only had 1 character slot per server or something stupid like that. Anyway, I read the article about the planned combat changes and from what I'm understanding, is they are fixing combat because of your complaints about the previous changes. So, you guys whine and screamed your heads off about them changing the combat system and cancelled your accounts to show you were serious. Now, they have come to realize that hey, they made a very vital mistake and people really are leaving. Therefor, they decide to make changes that should better suit the old combat style veterans. Yet, here you folks are, screaming about changes once again and half of you say your not even playing it. How do you know the new changes aren't good? Kind of hard to say somethings a bad idea if you don't atleast visit the game world, dont ya think? Anyhow, before you think about going back, wait for that 14 day free return pass when they activate old accounts again, for the billionth time, go try it out and then come back here and say if the changes that aren't even in yet, suck. Until then, put a clamp on it. This coming from someone who hasn't even touched SWG in over 2 years. Oh yeah, I remember another reason I left, CM/Riflemen were over powered. Take care folks...
To be quite honest with you. It's not so much the combat for me as I'm sure it's not for some others as well. For me it was the dumbing down of all the classes into 8 blobs of 'wtf'. I was a weaponsmith. Had a lot of fun doing it. Its now a huge 'meh'.
There's a lot more to the scope of anger than just the combat dude.
To be quite honest with you. It's not so much the combat for me as I'm sure it's not for some others as well. For me it was the dumbing down of all the classes into 8 blobs of 'wtf'. I was a weaponsmith. Had a lot of fun doing it. Its now a huge 'meh'. There's a lot more to the scope of anger than just the combat dude.
I agree, there's more to it then the combat changes that have us all finding ourselves thinking how fun it would be to demolish the $OE headcorters since it tends to be the center of ignorance. I did not like the thumbing down of classes, the extraction of over HALF the combat animations that you didn't NEED to get ride of, throwing away people's work on their characters and property to mean nothing. But the BIGGEST thing I have against SWG is the fact that the devs went on for months supporting the CU version when they knew they were going to change it yet again and didn't bother to tell us till a week prior. The lack of communication, the intentional misleading of customers, and taking the player base forgranted, is what I hate the most. I do not like the new combat system as it stands today, but the throwing away of content and repetitive cycles of adding the same crap back into the game only to take it out later is the top reason why I dispise the SWG team.
Also on a note, from what the Dev's post says, this isn't technicaly a CU3, it's more like a CU2.5. All that it is SUPPOSED to do is set the abilities in the game to work similarly to how they did in the CU, where things had timers, etc. Basicly, again, the reinstatement of old features they have already taken out and put back in at a prior time. If it didn't work the first time, and you think it'll work a second time then bother to make it run the way it should run so there never will be a third time. the CU changed armor, it changed, the whole functionality of the combat system beyond timers and UI adjustments, and the NGE went even further and totaly surpassed the old ways (not to mention that they are still using the same source code to try and run an FPS/RP highbread).
The combat system has always made us angry with the game, as well as some functions within the game istelf. Many didn't like the CU, but the be honost a lot of us who played didn't exacly care for how the original system worked either, they simply played because it was Star Wars and had potential for growth (growth meaning slight adjustments and not total revamps). They just found a way to make a little of it more decent at the cost of a lot of it to become worse (and the same goes for the NGE, which probably doesn't evne have a 'little bit more decentcy" in it)
Over all the number one reason however for our anger is the fact that they do not listen to their players, totaly destroying a game instead of simply making another version and leaving the original at peace (like what they did with EQ Adventures), and do not care about how bad they might have to treat their player base if it seems the easiest way out of a problem.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, so combat isn't the only reason people left SWG, I can understand that. The point of my post was, that they are making changes to COMBAT in retrospect to what the players were complaining about and you guys still complain. Now, if they decide to fix everything else, I'm sure it really wouldn't matter cause you'ld complain about that too. SWG was horrible in the first 6 months, I realized it and left then. I already knew the game was destined to depart the ways of the force. Do I blame SOE? not really cause SOE does know how to make MMOs, they just suck at making die hard Star Wars fans happy and at the same time, making a legitimate MMO. Pretty much why LotR Online and Star Trek Online will probably fail. Look at Matrix Online, it was made with the help of the W Brothers and it still failed. I'm a die hard fan of DAoC and Mythic Entertainment and does the fact they're making Warhammer Online scare me? Sure does. Cause a game that revolves around a book, movie or whatever is going to have too many restrictions in gameplay, issues with mechanics and basically forces the game into an uneasy, unrealistic setting. Is the failure of SWG SOE's fault? I really don't think so. I think it's safe to say that even if BioWare had made that game, it still would have ended up where it's at. You may think because KotR and KotR 2 are masterpieces, but guess what, they aren't MMOs. Theres a huge difference between making a successful single player game and an MMO. Making 1 player happy at a time or 1,000's... you do the math. Take care folks...
I understand what you're saying my friend. I do. But I wasn't miserable with the first 6months. Infact it was the most fun I had with any mmo to date. I haddent played the beta. I was really waiting for the game to come out. I read the forums daily. I did a little research and started out as a weaponsmith, and I made an assload of credits. even as I was skilling up. Made lots of friends. Was in a good guild. Had a 'partner' who would go with me during a resource shift. He would drop the harvesters where I wanted them, and once a day collect and drop em in my house. In return I gave him 20% of what I made + whatever weapons he wanted. So he made about I dunno 200-700k a day by doing nothing. This was before the god buffs and when everything was earned. So it was a very very easy life. I had been out of work because of surgery so I had a lot of time to spend on it. I was Set Nine on Corbantis. Doubt anyone here remembers me. I quit about a year into it due to rl reasons, but then, came back after the cu. Didn't mind it. Played a BH.
I know... Blah blah blah. But still. Was amazingly fun to me to play in that 'sandbox'. Now its just a watered down blow with 2 half ass instanced planets. Not to mention that instanced planets have no place in swg with all the beautiful ones they had that were fully explorable. Wookieland was a joke. Never got to see lavaland.
Anyways. I dont really say much. Read every few days, and really hope that one of the corporate money sluts wakes up and goes 'Hey! Lets make a classic server or two'. that will bring sub numbers up and we wont look like total asshats and appeal to the masses.
But for some reason, I really doubt that logic will ever enter the swg picture.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, so combat isn't the only reason people left SWG, I can understand that. The point of my post was, that they are making changes to COMBAT in retrospect to what the players were complaining about and you guys still complain. Now, if they decide to fix everything else, I'm sure it really wouldn't matter cause you'ld complain about that too. SWG was horrible in the first 6 months, I realized it and left then. I already knew the game was destined to depart the ways of the force. Do I blame SOE? not really cause SOE does know how to make MMOs, they just suck at making die hard Star Wars fans happy and at the same time, making a legitimate MMO. Pretty much why LotR Online and Star Trek Online will probably fail. Look at Matrix Online, it was made with the help of the W Brothers and it still failed. I'm a die hard fan of DAoC and Mythic Entertainment and does the fact they're making Warhammer Online scare me? Sure does. Cause a game that revolves around a book, movie or whatever is going to have too many restrictions in gameplay, issues with mechanics and basically forces the game into an uneasy, unrealistic setting. Is the failure of SWG SOE's fault? I really don't think so. I think it's safe to say that even if BioWare had made that game, it still would have ended up where it's at. You may think because KotR and KotR 2 are masterpieces, but guess what, they aren't MMOs. Theres a huge difference between making a successful single player game and an MMO. Making 1 player happy at a time or 1,000's... you do the math. Take care folks...
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
Originally posted by InspGadgt Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, so combat isn't the only reason people left SWG, I can understand that. The point of my post was, that they are making changes to COMBAT in retrospect to what the players were complaining about and you guys still complain. Now, if they decide to fix everything else, I'm sure it really wouldn't matter cause you'ld complain about that too. SWG was horrible in the first 6 months, I realized it and left then. I already knew the game was destined to depart the ways of the force. Do I blame SOE? not really cause SOE does know how to make MMOs, they just suck at making die hard Star Wars fans happy and at the same time, making a legitimate MMO. Pretty much why LotR Online and Star Trek Online will probably fail. Look at Matrix Online, it was made with the help of the W Brothers and it still failed. I'm a die hard fan of DAoC and Mythic Entertainment and does the fact they're making Warhammer Online scare me? Sure does. Cause a game that revolves around a book, movie or whatever is going to have too many restrictions in gameplay, issues with mechanics and basically forces the game into an uneasy, unrealistic setting. Is the failure of SWG SOE's fault? I really don't think so. I think it's safe to say that even if BioWare had made that game, it still would have ended up where it's at. You may think because KotR and KotR 2 are masterpieces, but guess what, they aren't MMOs. Theres a huge difference between making a successful single player game and an MMO. Making 1 player happy at a time or 1,000's... you do the math. Take care folks...
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
If it was the bugs that got to us why did we play for 3 years ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Don't sit there and tell me SOE made drastic changes to SWG based off a whim. You don't seem to understand, your not the only people playing this game and when it comes to making changes, the majority rules.
The changes they made weren't for the players they had. They made them because they looked at how many players WoW has and decided Star Wars should have the same amount. They even recently admited they knew alot of the players they had pre NGE weren't going to like the changes.
Also pre NGE they kept making changes to the game that nonoe had asked for, like making xp 10 times slower to get, or making roots and snares override and running speed buffs. The way they snuck the xp change on with no announcements that it was coming and after it has been on the test server for less then 24 hours (only 12 of thouse hours was the test server actuelly up) shows they knew the players weren't going to like it.
Basically ex players are upset because what they wanted was ignored in favour of what people not playing might want and because of the way it was carried out with no warning what so ever and only a bit over a week after a new expansion. If they had been honest about it, communicated with the players, and left the pre NGE SWG there but with no support while they rolled out a seperate NGE that they would then put all their concentration on and with the option of transfering characters over then their wouldn't be near the amount of anger.
Oh and as a side point I'm not a star wars fan and I loved the pre CU and pre NGE and your right about jedi, they should never have been atainible in SWG.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Sure, SWG was a glorious game when it first came out. It was huge, beautiful, lots of crafting and resource collecting was a blast. Professions were abundant and missions were decent and most everyone was happy. Every problem to date has stemmed from one issue within the game... JEDI. Jedi in SWG was probably a bad idea because realistically, Jedi were as close to immortal gods so to speak as you can get. Trying to balance a game around this nuisance profession is what basically caused SWG to self implode. Players just couldn't find a way to be happy whether it was the Jedi or the non Jedi. Since I left before the first year was up, I wasn't around to witness all this destruction and mayhem to the professions and crafting. I'm willing to bet that those changes were a direct response to player feedback because as poor as SOE may be at maintaining a perfect MMO, players always whine. Don't sit there and tell me SOE made drastic changes to SWG based off a whim. You don't seem to understand, your not the only people playing this game and when it comes to making changes, the majority rules. I go through MMO's like they are going outta style. I've played pretty much every MMO under the sun. I know for a fact every game goes through it's rough periods and it's moments of glory. I however, try to find a game that is able to create a more glorious era of gameplay then miserable ones. EverQuest is the main game of choice when speaking of well made. Eve-Online, Dark Age of Camelot and perhaps WoW are some other more successfully maintained MMOs. The reason SWG isn't working is because of what I stated in my 2nd post, which is the fact it's based on a widely followed and critically acclaimed movie series. You have way too much under your belt, even for a company as big as SOE, when you take on a project such as making an MMO based on Star Wars. Sure, it sounds like a good idea, but holy hell, are you in for it when people start complaining that things don't seem Star Warsie enough. SOE didn't break SWG, SWG was destined to be broken before it was even concieved... comprende? Take care folks...
No, i dont comprede. I dont take your opinions as fact. SWg did not fail because it was based off star wars. Lotr will not fail because it is based off Lotr. Mmo's fail because of development issues with combat, bugs, content, those sorts of things. Wow is based off a highly successful series, and it certainly hasnt failed.
Sure, timeline issues have always been a problem with swg, but people were up in arms about buffs, armor, and the hologrind, not whether the game was true to the movies. You can agrue that jedi werent supposed to be in the game, but again that is an opinion and i happen to disagree. What we can agree on im sure is the way they were IMPLEMENTED into the game sucked. Its a development issue.
I had never heard of one single person say swg wasnt starwarsy enough (or describe it as such) until the nge came out and the devs used that phrase as an excuse for a desprate attempt at a new audience. People said the combat was broken, or there were too many bugs, but never was it "omg its unstarwarsy".
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Sure, SWG was a glorious game when it first came out. It was huge, beautiful, lots of crafting and resource collecting was a blast. Professions were abundant and missions were decent and most everyone was happy. Every problem to date has stemmed from one issue within the game... JEDI. Jedi in SWG was probably a bad idea because realistically, Jedi were as close to immortal gods so to speak as you can get. Trying to balance a game around this nuisance profession is what basically caused SWG to self implode. Players just couldn't find a way to be happy whether it was the Jedi or the non Jedi. Since I left before the first year was up, I wasn't around to witness all this destruction and mayhem to the professions and crafting. I'm willing to bet that those changes were a direct response to player feedback because as poor as SOE may be at maintaining a perfect MMO, players always whine. Don't sit there and tell me SOE made drastic changes to SWG based off a whim. You don't seem to understand, your not the only people playing this game and when it comes to making changes, the majority rules. I go through MMO's like they are going outta style. I've played pretty much every MMO under the sun. I know for a fact every game goes through it's rough periods and it's moments of glory. I however, try to find a game that is able to create a more glorious era of gameplay then miserable ones. EverQuest is the main game of choice when speaking of well made. Eve-Online, Dark Age of Camelot and perhaps WoW are some other more successfully maintained MMOs. The reason SWG isn't working is because of what I stated in my 2nd post, which is the fact it's based on a widely followed and critically acclaimed movie series. You have way too much under your belt, even for a company as big as SOE, when you take on a project such as making an MMO based on Star Wars. Sure, it sounds like a good idea, but holy hell, are you in for it when people start complaining that things don't seem Star Warsie enough. SOE didn't break SWG, SWG was destined to be broken before it was even concieved... comprende? Take care folks...
On the jedi, issue You're right. You know what would have been fun? If they had stuck to the original Idea I heard a dev say. that was '0.15%' of the server or whatever. (Some miniscule amount) Would somehow stumble opon unlocking jedi. It would only work for them and wouldn't be repeatable. So if there were 3000 people on the server only 10-15 jedi at at time would be ever present. Once one was killed another person would trip on the jedi rock so to speak :P
That would have made for interesting. But no. People who name themselves OBIPWNFACE cried so much that they didn't impliment it that way. They threw the hologrind in :P
I don't care if its pre CU or post CU. As long as its not during the doctor god buff phase. That was for lack of a better descriptive. 'friggin lame.'.
Bad management killed the game and everytime they try to revive it, management kills it again. I do not see how anybody could have enough confidence in Mr. Smed and his ridiculous announcements and plans to subscribe to this disaster.
A mmorpg must have continuity or people lose confidence and find better games to play. Hopefully mmorpg producers will soon get out of infancy and start making quality products.
I am sure they will have some ridiculous garbage they will roll out at E3, but it will never see the light of day anyway so why bother? Remember all the stuff they trotted out at the last E3 with capital ships etc? What happened to all that fantastic stuff and why do they just ignore the fact they wasted everyone's time talking and presenting about it?
SOE reminds me of a bunch of Amway salesmen...all hype and sales pitch with a terribly shoddy product.
Originally posted by Alterbridge2 I don't care if its pre CU or post CU. As long as its not during the doctor god buff phase. That was for lack of a better descriptive. 'friggin lame.'.
Actually, that could have been fixed easily by modifing the buffs (set in a cap amount during the crafting phase) or the resources. They did change the crafting to a diminished return system during the CU that might have eliminated the docter buffs pre-CU, but unfortunately they also changed many other things which resulted in other problems.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by InspGadgt Originally posted by Rhoklaw Ok, so combat isn't the only reason people left SWG, I can understand that. The point of my post was, that they are making changes to COMBAT in retrospect to what the players were complaining about and you guys still complain. Now, if they decide to fix everything else, I'm sure it really wouldn't matter cause you'ld complain about that too. SWG was horrible in the first 6 months, I realized it and left then. I already knew the game was destined to depart the ways of the force. Do I blame SOE? not really cause SOE does know how to make MMOs, they just suck at making die hard Star Wars fans happy and at the same time, making a legitimate MMO. Pretty much why LotR Online and Star Trek Online will probably fail. Look at Matrix Online, it was made with the help of the W Brothers and it still failed. I'm a die hard fan of DAoC and Mythic Entertainment and does the fact they're making Warhammer Online scare me? Sure does. Cause a game that revolves around a book, movie or whatever is going to have too many restrictions in gameplay, issues with mechanics and basically forces the game into an uneasy, unrealistic setting. Is the failure of SWG SOE's fault? I really don't think so. I think it's safe to say that even if BioWare had made that game, it still would have ended up where it's at. You may think because KotR and KotR 2 are masterpieces, but guess what, they aren't MMOs. Theres a huge difference between making a successful single player game and an MMO. Making 1 player happy at a time or 1,000's... you do the math. Take care folks...
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
If it was the bugs that got to us why did we play for 3 years ?
Because the bugs were only one of the big reasons people blame SOE. Pre-CU yes there was bugs and their testing was poor but not nearly as bad as during the time of the CU and NGE. People have been blaming SOE for the bugs long before the NGE...add the NGE on top of that and you get a lot of pissed off people.
Originally posted by Rhoklaw Sure, SWG was a glorious game when it first came out. It was huge, beautiful, lots of crafting and resource collecting was a blast. Professions were abundant and missions were decent and most everyone was happy. Every problem to date has stemmed from one issue within the game... JEDI. Jedi in SWG was probably a bad idea because realistically, Jedi were as close to immortal gods so to speak as you can get. Trying to balance a game around this nuisance profession is what basically caused SWG to self implode. Players just couldn't find a way to be happy whether it was the Jedi or the non Jedi. Since I left before the first year was up, I wasn't around to witness all this destruction and mayhem to the professions and crafting. I'm willing to bet that those changes were a direct response to player feedback because as poor as SOE may be at maintaining a perfect MMO, players always whine. Don't sit there and tell me SOE made drastic changes to SWG based off a whim. You don't seem to understand, your not the only people playing this game and when it comes to making changes, the majority rules. I go through MMO's like they are going outta style. I've played pretty much every MMO under the sun. I know for a fact every game goes through it's rough periods and it's moments of glory. I however, try to find a game that is able to create a more glorious era of gameplay then miserable ones. EverQuest is the main game of choice when speaking of well made. Eve-Online, Dark Age of Camelot and perhaps WoW are some other more successfully maintained MMOs. The reason SWG isn't working is because of what I stated in my 2nd post, which is the fact it's based on a widely followed and critically acclaimed movie series. You have way too much under your belt, even for a company as big as SOE, when you take on a project such as making an MMO based on Star Wars. Sure, it sounds like a good idea, but holy hell, are you in for it when people start complaining that things don't seem Star Warsie enough. SOE didn't break SWG, SWG was destined to be broken before it was even concieved... comprende? Take care folks...
I actually agree with you in regards to Jedi. Publish 9 was the silent death of this game. It caused way too many balance problems, people stopped being other professions, etc. As far as "majority rules" SWG's subscriptions have most likely plummeted 50-60% in right around a year. (A conservative estimate is around 25% at least.) Any game that plummets that bad, the "Majority" was definetly not behind the changes, and even if so, it is a phyric victory.
It is a demonstrated fact that before the release of WoW, the "Combat rebalance" looked significantly different than the "combat upgrade." WoW freaked out the online gaming community based on it's rapid success, and companies tried immitating their style. The core combat system was not planned on being changed, the discussions proved that. It was simply talking about being refined. yet you admitted to not playing during this time. With all due respect, it helps to know a little bit about something before you criticize it. Also, you never look to improve a game off of a small amount leaving, and doing exactly the opposite of what those loyal customers want. You take care of your loyal customers first, THEN you worry about drawing new ones in. Simply fixing bugs would've gone a LONG way towards retaining the base. THAT is what made WoW it's most successful, there game is relatively bug free, and they have good customer service, SWG had neither (SoE is known across all games as having some of the worst customer service around.)
The voice was nearly universal, even amongst those who liked the original CU, to urge more time on test center before rolling out a borked project. I'm still a firm believer that making an MMO off a franchise can work, and they managed to get 500,000 subscriptions beforehand. Pre-WoW, that was a solid number.
So yes SOE/LA did break SWG, it was not destined to break from the start.
I miss the days when warping off your chair was the only problem most people encountered every day.
Blaming the players is just a cop-out. Yeah, they whined. Every game has whiney players. Does every game suffer from the lack-of-vision crap that SOE keeps putting into SWG because of whiney players? At the end of the day, is it the whiney players who have control over the source code and make the policy decisions? Even if that's the case, that the whiney players are in charge, it is still not the player's fault. It's Sony's and it's Lucas Arts'. They didn't know where to draw the line, when to say "play it or leave". They had their eyes on the megaprize ($$$), and thought that listening to the whiney players, letting them control the direction, would put the prize in their hands. They exchanged their control/vision of the game for what they thought was at the end of the rainbow.
They're only just now getting some backbone, only just now saying "play it or leave", and finding that they are a couple of years too late in saying it. Now they don't have a product that most people would rather play than leave.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Originally posted by Vexin I miss the days when warping off your chair was the only problem most people encountered every day.
You've got to be kidding... there hasn't been a day in the ENTIRE existence of SWG where that was the only problem you would face. Have you ever played the game?
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Vexin I miss the days when warping off your chair was the only problem most people encountered every day.
You've got to be kidding... there hasn't been a day in the ENTIRE existence of SWG where that was the only problem you would face. Have you ever played the game?
There was certainly never a lack of bugs but most days I wouldn't encounter any, apart from during the change over to the CU. I was submiting tickets to CS for weeks after that trying to get things fixed.
My 2c worth, the first problem was the Doc buffs they enabled super solo grinding, and disrupted the spirit of the origional game, where the chance to solo on a planet like Dant would have been impossible really, the second is the Jedi, I would have been more extreme, and never allowed more than 3 to exist at one time, and they would have to accept the perma death of old as was said earlier, they game was bugged pre Doc Buff time but it was challenging and not the kind of grind it became once the Docs buffs came and then later the mis conceived village.
I cancelled all 3 of my accounts the day I logged in and was asked to ajust my characters, anyone who had a master smuggler would understand my anoyance, this was a character that was bugged, flawed but I still enjoyed playing with him, I didnt mind the smuggler being bugged and without content.
All most of the earlier plyers need is that JTL killed, I like socialising waiting for transport, I wanted the Doc Buffs removed, they have no place in a social game, they removed the interaction and social asspect of the group missions, remove the damn village and the Jedi's, yes I would let them remove my Jedi account no problem if I could have my game back.
I hate WoW, juvenile canned crap, DoAC was "BORING" and I would rather chop of my own nads then play Eve, and that City of Heros, well that reminds me of WoW, I have been playing Oblivion so that I would not stoop to watching the TV.
Comments
I've said it before and ill say it again
SOE have no way back from the NGE
the game is shit
its buggs are shit
its reputation is shit
its dev team is shit
its upper management is shit
so what will a revamp do, well ill tell you
NOTHING
BUT ADD
MORE SHIT
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
I've just lost nearly 700 million ISK in EVE Online, not including the T2 mods, however on reading about this new combat revamp in SWG it's really cheered up my day.
I almost p***ed myself laughing!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Welcome to the SWG forums
Anyway these changes are going on TC late this week, so I'll post an update about what it's like. Ultimately though it's just them turning the speed dial down a bit, putting all the damage that was in the level back into the weapon and then re-coding the special system to so it works more reliably. Not what I would call a combat upgrade...
Question:
Answer (borrowed from another thread):
EnB Exiles
GuardiansOfOrion.com
I love to see that they are active in the forums, FOR ONCE!!! But It's too late now. And another change is only going to make them look more like the fools they have become.
Even though I'd say anything would be better than the NGE.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
To be quite honest with you. It's not so much the combat for me as I'm sure it's not for some others as well. For me it was the dumbing down of all the classes into 8 blobs of 'wtf'. I was a weaponsmith. Had a lot of fun doing it. Its now a huge 'meh'.
There's a lot more to the scope of anger than just the combat dude.
I did not like the thumbing down of classes, the extraction of over HALF the combat animations that you didn't NEED to get ride of, throwing away people's work on their characters and property to mean nothing. But the BIGGEST thing I have against SWG is the fact that the devs went on for months supporting the CU version when they knew they were going to change it yet again and didn't bother to tell us till a week prior. The lack of communication, the intentional misleading of customers, and taking the player base forgranted, is what I hate the most. I do not like the new combat system as it stands today, but the throwing away of content and repetitive cycles of adding the same crap back into the game only to take it out later is the top reason why I dispise the SWG team.
Also on a note, from what the Dev's post says, this isn't technicaly a CU3, it's more like a CU2.5. All that it is SUPPOSED to do is set the abilities in the game to work similarly to how they did in the CU, where things had timers, etc. Basicly, again, the reinstatement of old features they have already taken out and put back in at a prior time. If it didn't work the first time, and you think it'll work a second time then bother to make it run the way it should run so there never will be a third time. the CU changed armor, it changed, the whole functionality of the combat system beyond timers and UI adjustments, and the NGE went even further and totaly surpassed the old ways (not to mention that they are still using the same source code to try and run an FPS/RP highbread).
The combat system has always made us angry with the game, as well as some functions within the game istelf. Many didn't like the CU, but the be honost a lot of us who played didn't exacly care for how the original system worked either, they simply played because it was Star Wars and had potential for growth (growth meaning slight adjustments and not total revamps). They just found a way to make a little of it more decent at the cost of a lot of it to become worse (and the same goes for the NGE, which probably doesn't evne have a 'little bit more decentcy" in it)
Over all the number one reason however for our anger is the fact that they do not listen to their players, totaly destroying a game instead of simply making another version and leaving the original at peace (like what they did with EQ Adventures), and do not care about how bad they might have to treat their player base if it seems the easiest way out of a problem.
Top Ten Most Misused Words/Phrases in MMO Industry...
I understand what you're saying my friend. I do. But I wasn't miserable with the first 6months. Infact it was the most fun I had with any mmo to date. I haddent played the beta. I was really waiting for the game to come out. I read the forums daily. I did a little research and started out as a weaponsmith, and I made an assload of credits. even as I was skilling up. Made lots of friends. Was in a good guild. Had a 'partner' who would go with me during a resource shift. He would drop the harvesters where I wanted them, and once a day collect and drop em in my house. In return I gave him 20% of what I made + whatever weapons he wanted. So he made about I dunno 200-700k a day by doing nothing. This was before the god buffs and when everything was earned. So it was a very very easy life. I had been out of work because of surgery so I had a lot of time to spend on it. I was Set Nine on Corbantis. Doubt anyone here remembers me. I quit about a year into it due to rl reasons, but then, came back after the cu. Didn't mind it. Played a BH.
I know... Blah blah blah. But still. Was amazingly fun to me to play in that 'sandbox'. Now its just a watered down blow with 2 half ass instanced planets. Not to mention that instanced planets have no place in swg with all the beautiful ones they had that were fully explorable. Wookieland was a joke. Never got to see lavaland.
Anyways. I dont really say much. Read every few days, and really hope that one of the corporate money sluts wakes up and goes 'Hey! Lets make a classic server or two'. that will bring sub numbers up and we wont look like total asshats and appeal to the masses.
But for some reason, I really doubt that logic will ever enter the swg picture.
Lates.
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
If it was the bugs that got to us why did we play for 3 years ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The changes they made weren't for the players they had. They made them because they looked at how many players WoW has and decided Star Wars should have the same amount. They even recently admited they knew alot of the players they had pre NGE weren't going to like the changes.
Also pre NGE they kept making changes to the game that nonoe had asked for, like making xp 10 times slower to get, or making roots and snares override and running speed buffs. The way they snuck the xp change on with no announcements that it was coming and after it has been on the test server for less then 24 hours (only 12 of thouse hours was the test server actuelly up) shows they knew the players weren't going to like it.
Basically ex players are upset because what they wanted was ignored in favour of what people not playing might want and because of the way it was carried out with no warning what so ever and only a bit over a week after a new expansion. If they had been honest about it, communicated with the players, and left the pre NGE SWG there but with no support while they rolled out a seperate NGE that they would then put all their concentration on and with the option of transfering characters over then their wouldn't be near the amount of anger.
Oh and as a side point I'm not a star wars fan and I loved the pre CU and pre NGE and your right about jedi, they should never have been atainible in SWG.
No, i dont comprede. I dont take your opinions as fact. SWg did not fail because it was based off star wars. Lotr will not fail because it is based off Lotr. Mmo's fail because of development issues with combat, bugs, content, those sorts of things. Wow is based off a highly successful series, and it certainly hasnt failed.
Sure, timeline issues have always been a problem with swg, but people were up in arms about buffs, armor, and the hologrind, not whether the game was true to the movies. You can agrue that jedi werent supposed to be in the game, but again that is an opinion and i happen to disagree. What we can agree on im sure is the way they were IMPLEMENTED into the game sucked. Its a development issue.
I had never heard of one single person say swg wasnt starwarsy enough (or describe it as such) until the nge came out and the devs used that phrase as an excuse for a desprate attempt at a new audience. People said the combat was broken, or there were too many bugs, but never was it "omg its unstarwarsy".
For the Horde!
On the jedi, issue You're right. You know what would have been fun? If they had stuck to the original Idea I heard a dev say. that was '0.15%' of the server or whatever. (Some miniscule amount) Would somehow stumble opon unlocking jedi. It would only work for them and wouldn't be repeatable. So if there were 3000 people on the server only 10-15 jedi at at time would be ever present. Once one was killed another person would trip on the jedi rock so to speak :P
That would have made for interesting. But no. People who name themselves OBIPWNFACE cried so much that they didn't impliment it that way. They threw the hologrind in :P
I don't care if its pre CU or post CU. As long as its not during the doctor god buff phase. That was for lack of a better descriptive. 'friggin lame.'.
A mmorpg must have continuity or people lose confidence and find better games to play. Hopefully mmorpg producers will soon get out of infancy and start making quality products.
I am sure they will have some ridiculous garbage they will roll out at E3, but it will never see the light of day anyway so why bother? Remember all the stuff they trotted out at the last E3 with capital ships etc? What happened to all that fantastic stuff and why do they just ignore the fact they wasted everyone's time talking and presenting about it?
SOE reminds me of a bunch of Amway salesmen...all hype and sales pitch with a terribly shoddy product.
Actually, that could have been fixed easily by modifing the buffs (set in a cap amount during the crafting phase) or the resources. They did change the crafting to a diminished return system during the CU that might have eliminated the docter buffs pre-CU, but unfortunately they also changed many other things which resulted in other problems.
Well first off most of us don't like the FPS style of combat period...are the new changes getting rid of that? No, hence we will still complain.
Secondly...they are slowing down the animation speeds, which is a good thing! The animations really needed to be slowed down. Currently the animations move faster then any shooter game out there so they need to slow it down to shooter speeds or better yet realistic speeds. However at the same time they are increasing weapon damage so the net result will be that even though animations are slower...combat resolution will take about the same time which equals a bit NOTHING!
You fail to realize one of the big reasons people blame SOE is their lack of ability to fix bugs in a timely manner AND allow enough testing time to make sure those fixes don't break something else. Time and time again we saw bugs in Test Center that were reported the day the patch went to TC that still went live in the game 1 week later. Rather then post pone the live roll out SOE always opted to roll out poor patches in order to meet their deadlines. Other companies have bugs in their MMOs as well but not to the extent that SOE does with SWG. Also other companies allow for more time in testing so patches work more often then not. I've played several other MMOs and yes they had bugs...but rarely were they such game breaking issues as SOE has had with SWG. So yes it is SOE's fault in my eyes.
If it was the bugs that got to us why did we play for 3 years ?
Because the bugs were only one of the big reasons people blame SOE. Pre-CU yes there was bugs and their testing was poor but not nearly as bad as during the time of the CU and NGE. People have been blaming SOE for the bugs long before the NGE...add the NGE on top of that and you get a lot of pissed off people.
I actually agree with you in regards to Jedi. Publish 9 was the silent death of this game. It caused way too many balance problems, people stopped being other professions, etc. As far as "majority rules" SWG's subscriptions have most likely plummeted 50-60% in right around a year. (A conservative estimate is around 25% at least.) Any game that plummets that bad, the "Majority" was definetly not behind the changes, and even if so, it is a phyric victory.
It is a demonstrated fact that before the release of WoW, the "Combat rebalance" looked significantly different than the "combat upgrade." WoW freaked out the online gaming community based on it's rapid success, and companies tried immitating their style. The core combat system was not planned on being changed, the discussions proved that. It was simply talking about being refined. yet you admitted to not playing during this time. With all due respect, it helps to know a little bit about something before you criticize it. Also, you never look to improve a game off of a small amount leaving, and doing exactly the opposite of what those loyal customers want. You take care of your loyal customers first, THEN you worry about drawing new ones in. Simply fixing bugs would've gone a LONG way towards retaining the base. THAT is what made WoW it's most successful, there game is relatively bug free, and they have good customer service, SWG had neither (SoE is known across all games as having some of the worst customer service around.)
The voice was nearly universal, even amongst those who liked the original CU, to urge more time on test center before rolling out a borked project. I'm still a firm believer that making an MMO off a franchise can work, and they managed to get 500,000 subscriptions beforehand. Pre-WoW, that was a solid number.
So yes SOE/LA did break SWG, it was not destined to break from the start.
Blaming the players is just a cop-out. Yeah, they whined. Every game has whiney players. Does every game suffer from the lack-of-vision crap that SOE keeps putting into SWG because of whiney players? At the end of the day, is it the whiney players who have control over the source code and make the policy decisions? Even if that's the case, that the whiney players are in charge, it is still not the player's fault. It's Sony's and it's Lucas Arts'. They didn't know where to draw the line, when to say "play it or leave". They had their eyes on the megaprize ($$$), and thought that listening to the whiney players, letting them control the direction, would put the prize in their hands. They exchanged their control/vision of the game for what they thought was at the end of the rainbow.
They're only just now getting some backbone, only just now saying "play it or leave", and finding that they are a couple of years too late in saying it. Now they don't have a product that most people would rather play than leave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
There was certainly never a lack of bugs but most days I wouldn't encounter any, apart from during the change over to the CU. I was submiting tickets to CS for weeks after that trying to get things fixed.
My 2c worth, the first problem was the Doc buffs they enabled super solo grinding, and disrupted the spirit of the origional game, where the chance to solo on a planet like Dant would have been impossible really, the second is the Jedi, I would have been more extreme, and never allowed more than 3 to exist at one time, and they would have to accept the perma death of old as was said earlier, they game was bugged pre Doc Buff time but it was challenging and not the kind of grind it became once the Docs buffs came and then later the mis conceived village.
I cancelled all 3 of my accounts the day I logged in and was asked to ajust my characters, anyone who had a master smuggler would understand my anoyance, this was a character that was bugged, flawed but I still enjoyed playing with him, I didnt mind the smuggler being bugged and without content.
All most of the earlier plyers need is that JTL killed, I like socialising waiting for transport, I wanted the Doc Buffs removed, they have no place in a social game, they removed the interaction and social asspect of the group missions, remove the damn village and the Jedi's, yes I would let them remove my Jedi account no problem if I could have my game back.
I hate WoW, juvenile canned crap, DoAC was "BORING" and I would rather chop of my own nads then play Eve, and that City of Heros, well that reminds me of WoW, I have been playing Oblivion so that I would not stoop to watching the TV.