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Stop the doom and gloom
holifeet
Member Posts: 532
Will people please stop preaching the end of the world because Vanguard have formed a deal with SOE.
This does not mean the end of Vanguard. It actually means that vanguard will get better and be better.
Underlying Facts:
SOE have little say in the game development of Vanguard. The final say is Sigils
SOE are only providing the role of hosting, distribution and backing...in effect they are silent partners in Vanguard...they don't run it
Sigil have more control over Vanguard than they ever have done now. This is a good thing. It means they are free to make the game that they want to make and have always wanted to make
The situation with Microsoft almost necessitated a move. MS are more involved with the X-Box 360 than they are with running an MMO. Noone knows the ina and outs of the move, but suffice it to say that Sigil probably had to move to do as they wished with Vanguard
Brad McQuaid is a gamer. Jeff Butler is a gamer. The senior staff (and pretty much anyone at Sigil Towers) are gamers. Brad and Jeff could retire tomorrow. They are not making vanguard primarily because they want to get rich off of it (though they obviously would like to make money for development), they are making Vanguard because they want to play vanguard. That means they want the best possible situation to make Vanguard the ebst possible game it can be. Brad never left SOE because he had ill-feelings towards SOE. He left because he had allowed himself to be promoted too high and he no longer was doing the job he wanted to do. Brad wants to have a hands-on approach to making games. It is his passion. He is making Vanguard now...that is his role, and that is the reason that I know that this deal is not the be all and end all for Vanguard. Brad would not let it be so.
Vanguard will most probably be a better game for all this. Sigil are now able to concentrate fully on making the game, whilst SOE concentrate on getting it in the stores and in our homes, as well as promoting it in the best light. Whatever people say about SOEs decisions it must be reckoned that they have the infrastructure and the clout to advertise Vanguard to the best of their means and to the best possible result.
All the people that are now turninga round and telling the world that they will no longer play Vanguard have obviously not read and digested the facts. If they had read the facts they would know that SOE are only in the background. Coming out and condemning all this without knowledge and experience of the end product makes you look foolish.
Posting negative comments in the hype and giving Vanguard a low anticipated score does not mean that it will persih in doom and gloom. there are a loyal fan-base out there that actually really had hope for the game, and still have hope for the game. We do not make mis-guided theories.
I wish Sigil all the best and look forward to an amazing game. I will be siting before my PC, on the day of release, brimming with anticipation and eager to make my first character to enter Telon.
Addendum: As a brief add-on I will say that I am not a huge fan of the gaming decisions that SOE have made. I played EQ, EQ2 and SWG. I loved EQ and was devastated with the changes for the worse that SOE made. I thought EQ2 was a sham and an insult to the EQ name. I left SWG way before the NGE because I thought combat was uninspired, some of my preferred classes seemed to have been added just to pump up the number of classes and they had little support, there were too many jedi. I loved the game in so many other ways. The community was the best in any game at that time and I miss the times I shared with friends to this day. I was about to re-subscribe before the NGE. I cancelled that idea upon hearing about the NGE. This has all resulted in a distaste for SOEs decisions.
Since this deal between Sigil and SOE was announced I have had time to think. I see no reason to refuse to give SOE money; I was being harsh. It just happened that their ideas did not correspond with mine. I don't like the state of EQ now, but it is an old game and it was SOEs prerogative to breathe life in to it how ever they chose. I still have fond memories of the game and I still have good friends from the game.
On the subject of SOEs customer service; well I never had one problem. I actually would give that department a glowing reference. Every query I ever had was dealt with quickly and efficiently and did not resulty in major losses to my gameplay time. Problems are inevitable and will plague any game. The CS did their best to respond and act on any that were met.
Maybe the design team had a role in problems, but the SOE design team are not making Vanguard so why worry that SOE will cause problems again?
I have said enough, anyway. People need to quit worrying about the end of vanguard because it is still the same game...it just has SOEs name on it in a very minor role now. If you are worried abouyt giving SOE money, well why be? It is not like they will be going bankrupt anytime soon...they have more than enough people that keep subscribing to their games whether or not a few (comparitaviley) refuse to give them their money. The fact that they are making new expansions proves that. If it helps think of the situation as 'you pay Sigil to play Vanguard....it is then Sigil that give money to SOE to pay for services...not you'.
All hail the Pixel, for it is glorious Orange!
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Comments
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
If that is the only debated comment you can offer then that is why people will ignore your justification of this deal being the wrong move.
Offer some educated thought (with reason) why this deal will damage Vanguard and you may just gain some credibility.
Please do as I, and others, have said. Go to the VG forums and read the dev comments.
This will help: Silky Venom dev tracker
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If that is the only debated comment you can offer then that is why people will ignore your justification of this deal being the wrong move.
Offer some educated thought (with reason) why this deal will damage Vanguard and you may just gain some credibility.
Please do as I, and others, have said. Go to the VG forums and read the dev comments.
This will help: Silky Venom dev tracker
What you are not getting apparently is that SOE has a very bad track record of starting out as a publisher for a game, then exerting greater and greater control over the game itself. They have done this with just about every game they have marketed that was not of their own creation. With this preference set, is there any reason for them NOT doing so again. The answer is no. Sigil had to get out of a similar situation with MS. It will happen agian with SOE, as SOE is legendary for doing just such a thing, taking control from the devs. The major differneces with MS and SOE is that Brad and Smedley are very good friends (probably why SOE was asked to bail them out of hte MS deal) and there probably wasnt anywhere else for them to trum to. If SOE starts in, Sigil wont have a "out". And SOE will do what it has done with every other game. Just because people get on the boards and say that wont happen doesnt mean sh*t. I heard it during EQ, and I heard it during the blackout period for Horizons (god, that would have been a good game if DA had his way). If you want to think that SOE wont exert more and mroe influence over Sigil, you're dreaming. This is their MO, That is what SOE does. Period.
This is what people are afraid of happening. And it more than likely will. And people will purchase the game thinking it wont happen, only to get enraged when it eventually does. This is why History has a way of repeating itself over and over again, People never learn from it. From what I understand the beta is NOT going well, which honestly is not terribly surprizing. This is there first attempt at a game (989 studios created EQ, Verant under another name just came in to run the beta) and that might have had alot to do with MS having problems. I dont think I would expect alot from Vanguard at this point.
This is actually pretty ironic to me. Vangaurd isn't a game that I was/is interested in. Actually, when I found out that Sigil was bascially Verant: Reloaded I ran screaming from the site, remembering how much I hated EQ-Pre Velious. "The Vision" still gives me a sick feeling in my gut, and the way customers were treated makes me shutter. the Devs acted like they were gods, and I was glad to see them go. But for the people that wanted this game, I feel for them. SOE will eventually mutate the game into something very different. Bet on it.
It is true.....
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
If that is the only debated comment you can offer then that is why people will ignore your justification of this deal being the wrong move.
Offer some educated thought (with reason) why this deal will damage Vanguard and you may just gain some credibility.
Please do as I, and others, have said. Go to the VG forums and read the dev comments.
This will help: Silky Venom dev tracker
What you are not getting apparently is that SOE has a very bad track record of starting out as a publisher for a game, then exerting greater and greater control over the game itself. They have done this with just about every game they have marketed that was not of their own creation. With this preference set, is there any reason for them NOT doing so again. The answer is no. Sigil had to get out of a similar situation with MS. It will happen agian with SOE, as SOE is legendary for doing just such a thing, taking control from the devs. The major differneces with MS and SOE is that Brad and Smedley are very good friends (probably why SOE was asked to bail them out of hte MS deal) and there probably wasnt anywhere else for them to trum to. If SOE starts in, Sigil wont have a "out". And SOE will do what it has done with every other game. Just because people get on the boards and say that wont happen doesnt mean sh*t. I heard it during EQ, and I heard it during the blackout period for Horizons (god, that would have been a good game if DA had his way). If you want to think that SOE wont exert more and mroe influence over Sigil, you're dreaming. This is their MO, That is what SOE does. Period.
This is what people are afraid of happening. And it more than likely will. And people will purchase the game thinking it wont happen, only to get enraged when it eventually does. This is why History has a way of repeating itself over and over again, People never learn from it. From what I understand the beta is NOT going well, which honestly is not terribly surprizing. This is there first attempt at a game (989 studios created EQ, Verant under another name just came in to run the beta) and that might have had alot to do with MS having problems. I dont think I would expect alot from Vanguard at this point.
This is actually pretty ironic to me. Vangaurd isn't a game that I was/is interested in. Actually, when I found out that Sigil was bascially Verant: Reloaded I ran screaming from the site, remembering how much I hated EQ-Pre Velious. "The Vision" still gives me a sick feeling in my gut, and the way customers were treated makes me shutter. the Devs acted like they were gods, and I was glad to see them go. But for the people that wanted this game, I feel for them. SOE will eventually mutate the game into something very different. Bet on it.
Okay, name these games that SOE have started off as publisher for and then aquired? I think I am right to say that Everquest is the only one. The Matrix online was originally Warner Bros and Sega but was taken over by SOE. 95% of SOEs games are made by SOE.
You might even say that Verant was Sony as they were formed out of the original Sony games company that SOE also sprang out of. Try this link.
There is no reason at all to say that SOE will eventually aquire Sigil. There is no reason to believe Brad will ever want to sell. There is every reason for these people insisting that this deal will end in disaster to come up with every possible elaborate reason why it will end in disaster. Hence the 'SOE will aquire Sigil doom and gloom prophecy'.
As for the beta you wouldn't know if it was going bad, or not, unless you were in the beta. If you are in the beta then you have just broken the NDA by reporting that it is going bad. Bear in mind, too, that the people who report the beta as going badly are those that don't like it. They are also usually the ones that wanted a game to play and had no interest in beta testing. Beta is not going to be great essentially because the game is unoptimised and not ready to be played seriously. That is why it is being beta tested.
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Thanks for the link. Funny thing is that is condridicts a couple things you said. You might want to read it first before posting next time. From your linky.......
After EQ
In April 2000, Verant hired former Ultima Online developers Raph Koster and Rich Vogel forming its office in Austin, Texas to develop Star Wars Galaxies. [3] SOE acquired Verant on June 1, 2000 and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be SOE's Chief Creative Officer. [4] EverQuest: The Ruins of Kunark (March 2000) was the first in a long list of expansions for SOE/Verant's hit MMORPG. In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and went on to found Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE to develop their Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG. [5]"
Sony bought Verant, and Brad quit. Precedent established. Why did Brad quit? SOE was controlling it's development more and more.
As for beta, I was simply refering to several posts' comments on the beta. I am not in beta, never signed up for it, and in all honesty hate the core mechanics planned for it. But that seems to be the feeling I get from other beta testers in the beta. And trust me, betas can be good, CoH had a super beta, it was very smooth and the amount of bugs were minimal. WoW's was soso, Irth Online and Horizons were terrible. Betas can be "bad" and they can be "good". But, to repeat, I'm not in the Vanguard beta, so I'm just reflecting others perceptions in that matter. So no NDA breakage, hate to disappoint.
Oh, and one other thing to point out. If you belive everything the dev "spin", especially in such a situation as this. You might wan to start being a littl less trusting. I have been in communities in which the game was in trouble for one reason or another (Horizons, SWG, Wish Dragon Empires, Ultima X) and one thing you can bet you life on, the Devs will tell you everything is ok. Even if the network code is so borked playing more than 50 people on it;s server is impossible (Dragon Empires), or that they ran out of money and are going to close the doors tomorrow (Wish) or there was a hostile takeover and the founder, leader and brains behind the game is ousted by a powermad backstabber (Horizons).
But they will tell you everything is fine!
*yawn*
what kills me is alot of these people that are complaining never were fans of vanguard, it just gives them another chance to be negative and or bash the game they have always hated with or without soe.
even though i don't agree with it either, might as well stay away from the forums because these people have hijacked them and no doubt will just complain and troll for months on end.....no thanks.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
*yawn*
If quoting my post, and removing all paragraph spacing, is the only way that you believe you can make yourself heard in a discussion, then by all means go ahead.
I bet you were giggling furiously like a child when you did that.
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Thanks for the link. Funny thing is that is condridicts a couple things you said. You might want to read it first before posting next time. From your linky.......
After EQ
In April 2000, Verant hired former Ultima Online developers Raph Koster and Rich Vogel forming its office in Austin, Texas to develop Star Wars Galaxies. [3] SOE acquired Verant on June 1, 2000 and eventually promoted Brad McQuaid to be SOE's Chief Creative Officer. [4] EverQuest: The Ruins of Kunark (March 2000) was the first in a long list of expansions for SOE/Verant's hit MMORPG. In October 2001, McQuaid resigned and went on to found Sigil Games Online, drawing many of the original developers of EverQuest from SOE to develop their Vanguard: Saga of Heroes MMORPG. [5]"
Sony bought Verant, and Brad quit. Precedent established. Why did Brad quit? SOE was controlling it's development more and more. (another untrue fact - see below)
Notice how the sale of Verant (or the re-joinging of SOE and Verant) happened only a short while after the release of EQ? Brad is on record for saying he quit because he had allowed himself to be promoted too high. He left so he could found Sigil and concentrate on doing what he did best. Brad left around the time of Luclin. Jeff Butler stayed on at SOE to finish Luclin and then he, too, joined Brad at Sigil.Notice, too, how it took some time before EQ went the way it did. It was after Brad left the company (after Luclin) that the game began to change. The release of PoP came about a year later. Brad had gone then so he had no say on how development would procede.
Brad is still at Sigil, and with the terms of the agreement there is no way that SOE can decide upon gameplay, so little chance of a turn that was noticed with PoP. Despite what the doubters believe Brad has said many a time how he has no plans to sell the rights to Vanguard on; and that equals the good in the situation.
Originally posted by Morneblade
Oh, and one other thing to point out. If you belive everything the dev "spin", especially in such a situation as this. You might wan to start being a littl less trusting. I have been in communities in which the game was in trouble for one reason or another (Horizons, SWG, Wish Dragon Empires, Ultima X) and one thing you can bet you life on, the Devs will tell you everything is ok. Even if the network code is so borked playing more than 50 people on it;s server is impossible (Dragon Empires), or that they ran out of money and are going to close the doors tomorrow (Wish) or there was a hostile takeover and the founder, leader and brains behind the game is ousted by a powermad backstabber (Horizons).
But they will tell you everything is fine!
Why is there no trust here? Everything seems to boil down to the fact that gamers do not believe what the devs are saying. Why is that? You have no reason not to believe them other than the fact that you feel you have to be a negative old whiner. Unless you have concrete evidence that they are lieing then it is wrong to say they are.
Brad is a great deal more experienced at this than many of the folks behind the games you mentioned. He knows what he is doing. The whole Sigil team know what they are doing.
I guess it doesn't really matter what you argue because those that have chosen to stick with Vanguard refuse to listen to your 'beliefs'. I am only answered you, originally, in a seemingly vain effort to make you realise that you are jumping to huge conclusions and need to give things a little faith. Maybe I won't bother anymore, it is your choice if you plan to give up a game based on poor reasons. It is when your phony reasons start convincing others that the damage is done. That is the now main reason I argue your views and provide the facts.
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Mate, can YOU please stop being the "SoE/Sigil"-deal promotor, spreading your ASSUMPTIONS how it will turn out being the "climatic experience of the gamerworld"?
Fact is, no single title currently in the hands of SoE is a success.
Suffering from bad coding, bad technical operations, bad management, bad customer service.
There are companys out there not teaming up with MS nor SoE and FAR FAR FAR above SoE in the gamingcharts.
I am happy for you that you still have faith and hope in the "dreamteam 2006".
I, for myself, have seen SoE "mounting" EVERY bantha from behind...so stop gimme your "the world is pink and the sky is blue"-world, im not buying it.
This is your ?? posting i read about it, how super-uber great this deal is, so i wonder:
Are you from the damagecontrol department of Sigil ?
Claude
Orininally posted by Holifeet:
Originally posted by Morneblade
Oh, and one other thing to point out. If you belive everything the dev "spin", especially in such a situation as this. You might wan to start being a littl less trusting. I have been in communities in which the game was in trouble for one reason or another (Horizons, SWG, Wish Dragon Empires, Ultima X) and one thing you can bet you life on, the Devs will tell you everything is ok. Even if the network code is so borked playing more than 50 people on it;s server is impossible (Dragon Empires), or that they ran out of money and are going to close the doors tomorrow (Wish) or there was a hostile takeover and the founder, leader and brains behind the game is ousted by a powermad backstabber (Horizons).
But they will tell you everything is fine!
Why is there no trust here? Everything seems to boil down to the fact that gamers do not believe what the devs are saying. Why is that? You have no reason not to believe them other than the fact that you feel you have to be a negative old whiner. Unless you have concrete evidence that they are lieing then it is wrong to say they are.
Brad is a great deal more experienced at this than many of the folks behind the games you mentioned. He knows what he is doing. The whole Sigil team know what they are doing.
Why is there no trust here? Everything seems to boil down to the fact that gamers do not believe what the devs are saying. Why is that? You have no reason not to believe them other than the fact that you feel you have to be a negative old whiner. Unless you have concrete evidence that they are lieing then it is wrong to say they are.
Brad is a great deal more experienced at this than many of the folks behind the games you mentioned. He knows what he is doing. The whole Sigil team know what they are doing.
Oh, and one other thing to point out. If you belive everything the dev "spin", especially in such a situation as this. You might wan to start being a littl less trusting. I have been in communities in which the game was in trouble for one reason or another (Horizons, SWG, Wish Dragon Empires, Ultima X) and one thing you can bet you life on, the Devs will tell you everything is ok. Even if the network code is so borked playing more than 50 people on it;s server is impossible (Dragon Empires), or that they ran out of money and are going to close the doors tomorrow (Wish) or there was a hostile takeover and the founder, leader and brains behind the game is ousted by a powermad backstabber (Horizons).
But they will tell you everything is fine!
Why is there no trust here? Everything seems to boil down to the fact that gamers do not believe what the devs are saying. Why is that? You have no reason not to believe them other than the fact that you feel you have to be a negative old whiner. Unless you have concrete evidence that they are lieing then it is wrong to say they are.
Brad is a great deal more experienced at this than many of the folks behind the games you mentioned. He knows what he is doing. The whole Sigil team know what they are doing.
Why is there no trust here? Everything seems to boil down to the fact that gamers do not believe what the devs are saying. Why is that? You have no reason not to believe them other than the fact that you feel you have to be a negative old whiner. Unless you have concrete evidence that they are lieing then it is wrong to say they are.
Brad is a great deal more experienced at this than many of the folks behind the games you mentioned. He knows what he is doing. The whole Sigil team know what they are doing.
I guess it doesn't really matter what you argue because those that have chosen to stick with Vanguard refuse to listen to your 'beliefs'. I am only answered you, originally, in a seemingly vain effort to make you realise that you are jumping to huge conclusions and need to give things a little faith. Maybe I won't bother anymore, it is your choice if you plan to give up a game based on poor reasons. It is when your phony reasons start convincing others that the damage is done. That is the now main reason I argue your views and provide the facts.
Ok, where to start here. SOE is the biggest bunch of liars in the gameing industy, that is why I dont trust them, and why a ton of other people don't trust them. They are liars, huge ones. It's been documented over and over again. Call me a negative old whiner if you like, but I least I have the sence to get indoors and into the basement when a tornado is coming. Might not hit the house, but I'm not going to stand outside and wait for it. You wonder why us "old" people get negative? We've seen alot more than you "young" people. It's called life experience. And since you want to refer to me as "old", it's a good bet I've got more than you do.
I don't trust liars. You can if you want.
Only thing to do know is see what happens.
Fact is, no single title currently in the hands of SoE is a success.
There are companys out there not teaming up with MS nor SoE and FAR FAR FAR above SoE in the gamingcharts.
Eh? You might just say that any game that has enough subscribers to keep it going is a success. Other than that, if you look at mmorgchart.com you will see how wrong you are. Allow me to link some pages:
Graph No.1: Here you can quite clearly see that both EQ and EQ2 are very high up the ranking. Everything is behind WoW, obviously. Lineage, Lineage 2 and FFXI are largely made up of Far Eastern subscriptions and have a compartively smaller subscription base in the West. Runescape is a web based game and has free subscriptions, so you basically ignore that too. That, theoretically puts Eq and Eq2 second to WoW. Many people throughout the industry will dismiss Far Eastern subs due to factors such as internet cafes being big places to play etc, before you bring that up.
Graph No.2: Purely for easier comparison
It really does help your counters develop if you think about them and get your points right.
Call me a negative old whiner if you like, but I least I have the sence
to get indoors and into the basement when a tornado is coming. Might
not hit the house, but I'm not going to stand outside and wait for it.
You wonder why us "old" people get negative? We've seen alot more than
you "young" people. It's called life experience. And since you want to
refer to me as "old", it's a good bet I've got more than you do.
It's a British termination that I grew up with. Doesn't mean your technically old. More commonly heard, and you may even have heard in the US, is 'that's a load of old dribble'.
There are no worries if you really, really refuse to play Vanguard now. I just feel you haven't completely understood what the deal means, because your arguments still seem to suggest that, so i tried to make you realise. Guess I'm pounding my head against a brick wall. Another Brit saying i guess.
I don't think i'll bother trying to turn peoples minds back anymore. If you miss out on the game of the year then that is your prerogative. I prefer to have a little faith and wait and see. Dislike of SOE has blinded everyone, they are so convinced that they have to make SOE suffer that they will forego their own entertainment for the cause. Newsflash: SOE are not going to go bankrupt anytime soon. They have a good few games out there with more than enough subscribers to bring in a very large revenue every single year. There is more chance that Iran will give up nuclear power or that Western troops will pull out of Iraq.
There are far worse things in life than SOE. Every company lies. Someone quoted, elsewhere, that the MMO industry is new and companies are learning. SOE have more games to work on, and learn with, so their mistakes will stick out more.
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I am sorry to say that you do not know WTF you are talking about. Those of us who have been burned again, and again, and again by SOE know that this is NOT a good thing, and the MMORPG that V:SoH was supposed to be is now never going to happen.
Yeah, SOE is going to be involved, but not hands-on, with V:SoH. Yeah. Right. Noob.
Well, I am not "complaining", but am rather disturbed by this... I was really looking forward to VSoH, but being bedpartners with SOE is a bad move... They took the most expensive piece of IP and flushed it down the toilet with SWG... There is no bounds as to how badly SOE can fuck this up... How can you not see it? Sure, SOE won't hire it's "devs with downs" team to code this, but they will still supply servers (lag is imminent), CS (do I need to even say anything?), billing and marketing (rushed release ftw)... These are all areas that SOE fails miserably with and yet Sigil basically just gave them carte blanche to spoil this game too...
Defend it all you want, but SOE has the worst track record with MMO's out of any company... The very words "SWG" garnished smirks from my friends this week at a wedding, we chatted it up a while about how the game SWG is the biggest video game flop of all time...
Seriously, what the hell is Sigil thinking? Have they been living in a cave for the last three years? Even at the Fanguard conference, they took potshots at how horrible SWG is, yet they join the same team?
In the end, I think software devs and programmers are the lousiest bunch of businessmen that have ever existed... Complete morons...
Sorry Holifeet, but what graph you post - its irrelevant.
I dont consider a game (EQ2) which had a servermerge just, i dont consider this a "success" - Buzzzzz, try again.
Games like WoW, like Linage, with more then a million subscribers are a success in my book.
Games like MXO, Planetside, SWG etc. - these games are "somewhere" but not even in the same zipcode of "success".
Wake up boy.
Claude
I have faith in Sigil. I have been following Vanguard for so long with huge interest and passion. I will not let my mistrust of SOE rid me of that hope for a great game to replace EQ. I will make a stand for things if I have to, but I hardly consider SOE world changing enough that I have to forego my enjoyment to attempt to put a spanner in their works; a spanner that will make no impact whatsoever.
Even more so I have the ability to realise that SOE are a company just like any other company. They will advertise their product with anything that makes it sell, even if that means stretching the truth a little. They will make mistakes and earn the disrespect of people. They will consult and improve on were they think they are going wrong. They just need a little faith from their customers to do what they ultimately wish to do; serve us with whatever it is they specialise in. In SOEs case that is to bring entertainment. I will give them that chance with Vanguard. If the game sucks or peoples fears come to fruition then I will quit.
Ultimately, though, SOE are in the background. they will make only a percentage of the profit that Sigil will make and they will have no hand in making the game. People would do well to remember that.
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Comments from mmogchart.com:
Lineage: "As of March 2005, Lineage has just under 2 million such users
worldwide, but only 7,623 subscribers in the United States."
Lineage 2: "As of March 2005, the
game had over 2.1 million subscribers worldwide, with 65,644 of those in the
US."
Everquest 2: "Launched in November 2004, this is the sequel to the highly
successful EverQuest. Early press
releases and news reports indicated that EQII had over 300,000 subscribers, as well
as a statement in March 2005 that the game had “over 350,000 players logging in
every week”. However, inside sources
indicate that the number of subscribers is actually somewhat less; as of June
2005 the game had some 278,000 subscribers."
Lineage: "Lineage uses substantially different metrics for “counting” players. They may have close to 4 million “players”,
but most of these players did not buy a box at the local software store and
then pay a monthly subscription fee like traditional MMOGs. Instead, they play in “PC baangs”, Internet
cybercafes in Korea that buy Lineage access from the company and then sell it
at hourly rates to customers. This,
combined with the unusual Korean dynamic of rapid deployment of broadband and
the fact that imports of Japanese console platforms were restricted, made
Lineage unusually popular. Lineage’s
lack of success in the United States via the more “traditional” MMOG model only
proves this out. "
I think even 200,000, which EQ2 must have is still a success. If you consider and account at $15 a month that makes $3,000,000 a month and $36,000,000 a year. Just because you don't consider that successful means little...the industry would.
EQ is a phenonemon that defies not being classed as a success.
Planetside is one of the longest running sci-fi MMOs in existence. No matter how high its subscription base the fact that is still running makes it a sucess far beyond WoW. Will WoW be running in 6 or 7 years?
If EQ and EQ2 could have broken in to the Far East, against the cheap competition of Lineage you may argue that they, too, could have subscriptions in the millions...or more.
Ask 100 people what makes an MMO a success and you will have variably different opinions. No-one will have the correct answer.
If you consider the definition of success, then SOE have achieved success with all of their games.
SUCCESS: "The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work."
.
boy the fanbois will have to be working overtime x3 now to stop the flood gates of SOE flames that will be ripping through.
/looks around for monk
Thank you for your vast input. So you are intelligent, insightful and just plain AWESOME enough to learn from history but Brad is incapable of learning from what happened with EQ and not make the same "mistake".
Brad made out like a bandit after selling out last time. Yeah.. he learned. Cha-CHING!
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Did you know that brad was only one of the owners of verant right? John Smedley was verant's president and probably the biggest shareholder most people seem to forget that, so in the end was Smedleys choice(i dont think that an amateur computer programmer as Brad McQuaid had enough money to own a large part of a games company that was making a 8 million dolar game).
Did you know that brad was only one of the owners of verant right? John Smedley was verant's president and probably the biggest shareholder most people seem to forget that, so in the end was Smedleys choice(i dont think that an amateur computer programmer as Brad McQuaid had enough money to own a large part of a games company that was making a 8 million dolar game).
So he was sitting on the floor in the fetal position screaming "Nooooooooo NOOOO I won't take the money!!! I don't want to sell my baby! Go Away!!!!"
Right.
He went Cha-ChING! Deposited his check, bought a big sportscar and eventually created another company.
Now he'll launch this game when he scrapes it together, and depending on how many people buy it.. he'll either sell it to $OE for a modest or obscene sum.
Welcome to reality.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0