Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Everquest 2 and the SWG debacle...
Tonkatsu
Member Posts: 53
Since most of you seem to know quite a bit more about SOE than I do, I thought I'd pose a question:
Given that most of you feel that SOE ruins everything it touches, how do you account for the constant improvement of Everquest 2? It's not perfect, sure but the PvP element has greatly improved it (for those that enjoy that sort of thing) and they've eliminated needless problems (such as having to be online to sell things). All in all, it seems to be getting better rather than worse. Now, is this due to some different programming team supervising the game (unrelated to the guys that seem to be running everything else into the ground ala the NGE), or perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or risk going under? Or is this just the calm before the storm, when they decide to introduce the new and improved point and click interface with new "Everquesty" elements
? What do you all think?
Given that most of you feel that SOE ruins everything it touches, how do you account for the constant improvement of Everquest 2? It's not perfect, sure but the PvP element has greatly improved it (for those that enjoy that sort of thing) and they've eliminated needless problems (such as having to be online to sell things). All in all, it seems to be getting better rather than worse. Now, is this due to some different programming team supervising the game (unrelated to the guys that seem to be running everything else into the ground ala the NGE), or perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or risk going under? Or is this just the calm before the storm, when they decide to introduce the new and improved point and click interface with new "Everquesty" elements
? What do you all think?
Comments
Because people hear SOE and automaticaly think everything sucks.
SOE is EA of MMORPG's.
Does everything from EA suck? No. So why should it be the same with SOE?
People just hear one thing and then jump on the wagon.
In actuality most of SOE's games are quite good. What pisses people off about SOE is that they don't seem to listen to their players. They have a vision for their games (ok SWG being the exception because it hasn't had a consistant vision due to being jointly run with LEC I believe) and generally stick to that vision extremely well.
This is evidenced by the legendary "The Vision (tm)" that Everquest stuck to like glue and that EQ2 seems to be adhering to as well. Both games have done very well. PlanetSide has also adhered to it's vision and is now in a growth phase again. SWG is the lone example of a really, honestly, BAD managed MMORPG from SOE.
So no, SOE isn't as horrible as people want to make them seem. They are terrible at communicating with their customers and they're even worse about listening to their customers. But they do generally release pretty good games and they support them well for the most part.
There are other MMORPG publishers out there that are better at those things but SOE isn't the great satan that folks on this board want to make them out to be.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
They have long term fiscal strategy. The games are adapted to meet the goals. Players are not part of the equation. This is clearly reflected with all creative (as in position) people have left. What is left, is the typical ROI exploitation personel, that will do anything to milk the last dime out of products they are unable to develop in any other way.
This is identical to chop-shop businessmen, who buy companies, split them and sell them in pieces, scraping the fat, and making huge profits by destroying other's work. The fact that SOE is involved in games is purely coincidental. They could apply exactly the same principle to music industry, refrigerators, lubricants, waste disposal or international finances.
EQ2 is not that great. But it has only EQ and EQ2 players. SWG had too many of x-wing, TIE Fighter, KOTOR, KOTOR2, EP 1-6, SW EU, random SW, UO, Lineage, WoW, Console, Pacman, Simcity and other genre fans. And they were all sold SWG as "their" SW experience, which of course it wasn't.
MxO is also an extremly mediocre game, which most MMO fans wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. But it never struck big, so it has its small loyal playerbase. And since it was developed out of house, SOE is only raking in profits.
I agree with Elnator. EQ1 was a lot of peoples first mmorpg and to me nothing compares to it to this day. They take very good care of EQ2 and if content is what you want there isn't much out there that can match it. Most of the backlash comes from what they have done to SWG and it has left more than a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths.
Was posted here recently about all the effort they spend on making packs annd expansions and other content constantly added to EQ2 ( and EQ1 for that matter) and yet not even a fraction of that effort has ever been tossed at SWG.
Anyhow, this past week I was at a party where I got into a conversation with a person who works as a company support phone answering complaing writer down type of person. LOL.
Anyhow, he said a funny comment along the lines of, "you know, no one ever calls to say, 'Wow, your product is the obsolute best.' All I get are complaints, and how does this work calls."
And if you think about what he says, and you think about what you read on forums, I think that carries over here.
Only difference is that when someone decides to throw in their positive 5-cents, they are either declared to be a fanbois troll (whether that is true or not), or the people that are not happy have to throw in their, "Yeah but <company_name> still sucks at/with..."
I firmly believe that most people that come to message boards are either very disgruntled players, at the end of the rope players looking for help, or are players who are bored at a computer somewhere away from the gaming computer they own unable to play a game (ie; at work).
I'm bored with good things to say about SOE and EQ2.
But I understand your point of view on the said topic.
* SWG is a LucasArts license and everything needs to be okay'd by LucasArts first (it took them months to get the wookie armor approved)
* EQ2 is a very standard MMORPG using very traditional gameplay devices. I won't say that this is a "solved genre", but when Blizzard can do it, it's pretty close. SWG by comparison has always been unique and strange, even after the NGE. There's just been a lot more to fix and there hasn't always been a clear way to do that. The two major revamps didn't help that.
* They have been adding to SWG, but because the game is so much larger in scope, a single improvement has typically been rather unnoticable. For instance, before the NGE, they'd revamps several of the classes (droid engineer, chef, bounty hunter, squad leader) - but with 32 professions and everybody being a TK/Doc, nobody noticed. They've added mounts, vehicles, multiplayer vehicles, player cities, the Jedi village, new crafting schematics, those damned multi-part loot kits, player vendor search, and a whole bunch of stuff (and a lot of it was good stuff). It was just spread out over too many people to seem like they were doing much. I think the NGE was a move to address this - 9 classes, small changes affect a larger portion of the game.
* SWG has always been broken in significant ways. Regardless of whether you think they needed the CU/NGE or just could've fixed the pre-CU stuff, the game has never been in a good state. Whenever the add new features to the game, people complain that they need to do more bug fixing. I thought the multiplayer vehicles were great and something people wanted since the beginning, but when that publish was announced after the CU, people were completely focused on the then unworking CU. SWG has always been a game with an angry playerbase, and it has been very difficult for the players to remain objective and see the new features as they come.
"perhaps has SOE realized that the SWG cost them so much (in terms of
both subs and publicity) that they need to get their act together or
risk going under?" - I think Smed has said as much.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I admit I have had some crappy experiences with SOE, but I still play their games.
How many times have you gone to a fast food place and got shafted out of something? Only to come back a week later and reorder from them again...
Just because a company had some issues, or you have had some issues with them in the past doesn't mean you'll stop using their product or buy from them, etc.
I wouldn't call EQ2 constantly improving but then its a type of game I have no intrest in playing at all so hard to look at any of those expansions as improving it. I did find it amusing when they changed the leveling system though so you could start straight off as a wizard or assassin or whatever. That was a very similer move to what they did to the professions in SWG.
All in all though how many subscribers does EQ2 have? Would SoE in their board meetings, as oposed to press releases, be happy with it? or are they looking at WoW with greed in their eyes again and thinking what can we change about combat to get more players?
And I agree with elenator as well, SoE has no vision for their games what so ever. Its all reactive programing to marketing and focus groups.
No, what it means is you might not stop buying from them. I would and have.
Also SoE has more then some issues. They don't care about quality or existing customers, just about making as much money and hyper marketing to get new customers in. I don't like companies like that in any industry.
I think every company has a vision and tries their hardest to fullfill it.
If they didn't have any vision, why would they even bother to fix bugs, etc?
SoEs only visions is making money. Some of their games might have the benefit of a senior dev that actuelly cares about his work but the upper level and the majority of the devs have no vision past 'owwh money'. Changes are made to their games purely to try and make players go 'owwh nice' and with no other reason and thats why bugs are fixed too.
Which I'd call a very good number of subscribers but I know SoE doesn't. FFXI still has more players then that after all.
SoEs only visions is making money. Some of their games might have the benefit of a senior dev that actuelly cares about his work but the upper level and the majority of the devs have no vision past 'owwh money'. Changes are made to their games purely to try and make players go 'owwh nice' and with no other reason and thats why bugs are fixed too.
Isn't that everyone's goal? TO make money?
No, its not similar to what they did in the NGE. They still have the same amount of classes, they didnt go from 32 to 9. All they did was "remove" the archtype labels and you pick your class when you make your character. So instead of being a Warrior for 10 levels, then a Crusader for 10 levels, then finally a Shadowknight/Paladin and level 20, you pick Shadowknight or Paladin at the start. The problem with the old archtype system is an evil crusader had the exact same skills and everything as a good crusader, same can be said for all the other classes. The new system only affected levels 1-19, and it works very well.
Around 500k I think, give or take a few of course. Nobody knows the numbers from any game.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Not it isn't. Money is nice but it isn't everything. I make money so I can spend it to have fun and on things like rent and I certainly have limits on what I'd do for money. I wouldn't betray or walk over anyone else to make money for example.
SoEs only visions is making money. Some of their games might have the benefit of a senior dev that actuelly cares about his work but the upper level and the majority of the devs have no vision past 'owwh money'. Changes are made to their games purely to try and make players go 'owwh nice' and with no other reason and thats why bugs are fixed too.
Which I'd call a very good number of subscribers but I know SoE doesn't. FFXI still has more players then that after all.
Well yea, FFXI is also a gaming titan in Asia, with more subscribers than L2.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Not it isn't. Money is nice but it isn't everything. I make money so I can spend it to have fun and on things like rent and I certainly have limits on what I'd do for money. I wouldn't betray or walk over anyone else to make money for example.
If you were a massive corporation, money is your #1 topic.
"What can we do today to make MORE money?"
I make money to spend on rent, games, food, electric, etc. If I owned Microsoft or some huge corp, then I would be a little more nasty. The nice guys in the business get destroyed. Look at Wal*Mart as a good example.
Well its not the type of game I'd ever play so close to impossible for me to judge if its improving but the new expansions look like the same thing they did in EQ1. New zones where the xp gain is much better then then the old so everyone goes there, new equipment that is much better then the old equipment so everyone wants that. It just new skins that makes skins from the old game obsalete. The only expansion I think was worthwhile would be the PvP one and this is from a carebear.
I know it wasn't clear but I don't mean exactly the same as the NGE in the way it was carried out but similer in the concept of making the professions 'simplier'.
I know it wasn't clear but I don't mean exactly the same as the NGE in the way it was carried out but similer in the concept of making the professions 'simplier'.
It wasnt made simpiler thats the thing, the archtype system was brain numbingly boring, you had to play the 1st 20 levels of the game as a generic "d00d". The new system also dosent just JUMP right out into handing you everything the class offers either, which was a good move as well.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
Not it isn't. Money is nice but it isn't everything. I make money so I can spend it to have fun and on things like rent and I certainly have limits on what I'd do for money. I wouldn't betray or walk over anyone else to make money for example.
If you were a massive corporation, money is your #1 topic.
"What can we do today to make MORE money?"
I make money to spend on rent, games, food, electric, etc. If I owned Microsoft or some huge corp, then I would be a little more nasty. The nice guys in the business get destroyed. Look at Wal*Mart as a good example.
Depends on the big buisness. Some companies go for quality product and making their current customers as happy as possible so they always come back and I know that works for big buisness as more then a few companies take that approach. That appraoch even has its own name in buisness l33t sp34k.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
Depends on your point of view, I don't like the change and it is making it simplier. It's just you like it in this case.
/shrug oh well whatever. This argument/discussion wont have any meaning unless you actually play the game. So im out.
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett