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Anti pk/grief/cheat - society for better gaming
Rattrap
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
I dont know for you, but i am sick with all this PK griefer , cheater , noob calling and what not miscreants.
It is beyond me what kind of perverse pleasure they experience - when they PK another player that is many many levels under them. I will not even mention griefing or scamming.
What gives man a pleasure to answer a player asking for help - "cry n00b!"
Only reason I can imagine is : that this players are teenagers facing serious emotional problems, sexual frustrations and bulliying in their everyday enviroment. It is trully sad to see MMORPG communityes full of them.
As for the opposite kind. Players that are always ready to help a lower level , advice and even protect...
we seem to be slowly fading away.
I belive that every n00b is a potential new friend, a guild member or a worthy competitor - thus i treat him with respect. I belive this goes towards building a better play ground for all to enjoy.
So lets make a little policy here at mmorpg.com , lets make a move towards a better community.
Take this poll in which you pledge to do following.
It is beyond me what kind of perverse pleasure they experience - when they PK another player that is many many levels under them. I will not even mention griefing or scamming.
What gives man a pleasure to answer a player asking for help - "cry n00b!"
Only reason I can imagine is : that this players are teenagers facing serious emotional problems, sexual frustrations and bulliying in their everyday enviroment. It is trully sad to see MMORPG communityes full of them.
As for the opposite kind. Players that are always ready to help a lower level , advice and even protect...
we seem to be slowly fading away.
I belive that every n00b is a potential new friend, a guild member or a worthy competitor - thus i treat him with respect. I belive this goes towards building a better play ground for all to enjoy.
So lets make a little policy here at mmorpg.com , lets make a move towards a better community.
Take this poll in which you pledge to do following.
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
How utterly useless a thread you made ...
While I agree that baseless agressions and misbehaviour is to be frowned upon, some games actually use these things as part of theri gameplay you know...
Scamming, killing weaker opponents, stealing, hoarding, monopolising, bullying and extortioning. All great tools as long as they serve a greater goal within a somewhat balanced system.
The problem is that 'most' people are way too comfortable in the victim role and like to react to being targeted by methods that are not analogous with their rl value system by whining at everyone that comes near to them about how unfair and broken the system is and about how everyone using those methods must therefore be a 12 year old miseducated griefing little spoilt pimpelface Tommy Trustfund out to ruin their gameplay fun for no apparent reason.
Well, sometimes they are, sometimes they are not. But the fact that that type of players tends to judge them regardless of the fictional value system your chosen game employs as a setting is at least just as bad.
I do agree however that every players is a potential asset to a community. But that doesn't mean we all have to play Mr Nice guy all the time.
I see it like this,
If you don't like PK's and griefers, don't play open PvP games or servers,. then.......you don't have to deal with it. I often wonder why people who complain about PK's and griefers even went to that game/server in the first place, what did they think was going to happen. People who PK and Grief, get a grip, you are not tougher or better for doing it you are just being an ass. If you want to PvP fine, but PvP isn't taking your max level character to a starter zone and killing all the noobs.
Cheaters suck
People who call others names and are generally rude are asses. What can you do about it? Dunno, most games have an ignore feature, shut them off.
Its all about playstyle. Some people just like to go on murderous rages. If they play a game that allows it, what does anyone care? Don't play the same game.
A person that thinks that after a tedious grind to lvl uber , his well earned source of fun is comming to newbie area and harresing the people that just started. People that can not fight back.
His motivs : being the best ( while actually he is lower than a maggot)
His defence : Hey , it is coded in the game. Therefore it is ok!
My answer to you Rod_B , and all your frustrated friends
Being bad means Pkilling a player mightier than yourself , not killing a newbie.
I think games like Lineage that have such PK system enabled have it for a special reason -
Because people like our dear Rod_B , being sexually frustrated teenager , unable to have any normal relationship in his young life. He is sad, desperate and angry. He tried everything, but people just dont like him. So he wants to hurt them...but he can not...for he is a coward and weakling. So he turns to virtual world - he pays them lot of money (his perents actually) so at least in this virtual enviroment he can be the PWN.
But ironically even there he is a castout. So he is angry..he wants some payoff..he goes into a newbie starting area and harrases them...killing them and yelling "n00b, n00b"
That is sad dear Rod_B
I know that PK games like Lineage2 , keep up this rules to cater to your needs, and you understand that too.
But it is never to late to rejoin the human part....
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
But a lvl 60 , comming to human newbie isle , and patroling the area - in order to randomly kill lvl 3 players...
And than boasting " Pwned n00b1"
That is just disgusting. Makes you wonder why do you play a game , in which such people are seen often....
I am trying to constitute a code of honour for a online rpg player. Something everyone could just be proud off.
But as Rod_B stated ... this is a vaste of time
I belive mmorpgs now belong to social outcasts.
And you that flame this topic are part of the problem
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
In Eve you CAN'T tell what kind of skills a person has when you enter pvp... It is all up to set up which is impossible to read. Yes you could bet a guy flying the noob ship is going to most likely be unable to defend themselves. But if they go into low sec (open pvp area, easily avoided) your asking to be blown up. Hell guys in the 3rd cheapest frigate can kill cruisers, nearly 20x the expense. So really thats not much of a problem.
But going back, useless griefing in low lvl areas when lvls are everything in the game (so all avatar ones) It is pointless and needs to be revised, even in open pvp games, maxed players should not be able to go to the noobie area and auto-gank the new players.
Also towards farmers (cheaters, yeah that scum) You should get a life, a real job and stop screwing the people that worked for something getting stomped all over by a guy who payed with real money (idiots that just dont seem to realise they could have spent that on something physical) and just goes 'yeah it is kool, spent 5 seconds getting it too...' *sigh*
Bored, tired, and thirsty,
Bin
"Just because there are other colours to use in chat does not mean you have to use them..." - Please follow
You can't see player levels in L2 either. You can't even see the status of their hit points while you are fighting. The only way to really tell is by the gear that persona has. And even thats not 100%. Thats where the "risk" comes in I guess. In L2 you never know who you are up against.
Are there asshats in L2 Rattrap? Yes there are. There are jerks in all these games. There have been people scamming and ganking since the release of UO.
Is it right? Well that depends on the point of view of the player. Some people justify it others just don't care. I don't do it. I think its pretty low. Did it happen to me? Yes.
Your best way to get by in L2 is make some friends. There is safely in numbers. After level 20 it will be easier to get into a guild.
Its a hard game bro. The economy is hard, the death penalty is hard, every setback just really stings. Wait until you drop a good piece of armor it took all your money to get. The game will make you want to screem at times. Thats what makes the game a challenge.
There are many honorable players out there. Many many. They are not hanging around the newbie areas killing new people.
In fact I would go so far as to say killing newbies is very hazardous L2. Most players are not true noobs, they are alts. You can damage your reputation fast and end up on a large guilds "kill on sight list" if you kill the wrong low level.
EDIT
You want to set a code of Honor? Start a guild. There are many like minded people in the game. Alot of people play because it is just a beautiful game. It has some very complexe player politics. (the most player driven and complexe I've ever seen) Some for the seiges, some because they like it, others because they can Gank. There are "good" aligned guilds and there are "evil" aligned guilds. It is all up to the players. Nothing is there to "make" you do anything.
A person that thinks that after a tedious grind to lvl uber , his well earned source of fun is comming to newbie area and harresing the people that just started. People that can not fight back.
His motivs : being the best ( while actually he is lower than a maggot)
His defence : Hey , it is coded in the game. Therefore it is ok!
My answer to you Rod_B , and all your frustrated friends
Being bad means Pkilling a player mightier than yourself , not killing a newbie.
I think games like Lineage that have such PK system enabled have it for a special reason -
Because people like our dear Rod_B , being sexually frustrated teenager , unable to have any normal relationship in his young life. He is sad, desperate and angry. He tried everything, but people just dont like him. So he wants to hurt them...but he can not...for he is a coward and weakling. So he turns to virtual world - he pays them lot of money (his perents actually) so at least in this virtual enviroment he can be the PWN.
But ironically even there he is a castout. So he is angry..he wants some payoff..he goes into a newbie starting area and harrases them...killing them and yelling "n00b, n00b"
That is sad dear Rod_B
I know that PK games like Lineage2 , keep up this rules to cater to your needs, and you understand that too.
But it is never to late to rejoin the human part....
Hehe, you'd be amazed.
And anyway you do have a point in reacting somewhat harsh to my too-harshly worded post.
However, games like lineage II do not interest me since they have so little in terms of freedom and goals one can set. What I was referring to is those games with a system that allows you to use combat, scheming, but also economics, monopolising, politics and whatever not as tools. Means to an end.
I do not actually grief, nor kill new players. I'm not 12 year old and sexually frustrated. But my point was that people in fictional virtual worlds need to learn to let go of their rl morals a bit more when the situation warrants it.
Wether or not that's true for lineage is something I cant judge since i dont play it. However, there are most certainly mmo's out there where it does apply, and where the discussion about griefplay are still based on sets of moral values that do not fit in with the choice of fiction.
What I was trying to say I guess, is that what is griefing in one game is not in another. Player misbehaviour imo often depends on wether or not you value set conforms to that of the game world. If not, you're likely to not accept it and whine, or not accept it and resort to griefing depedning on the differences. I'm just saying that I consider them equally bad and that your statement cannot be resolved into the two options you gave because of these relativities in the subject.
Personally, I agree that senseless intereference with anothers gameplay is bad. But it's the "senseless" part that is relative, and cannot be generalised like you just did.
Rattrap yo dont understand open pvp at all. If you just want to fight people your level, then play DAOC, where there are areas to go to to pvp where everyone is your lvl.
Take Shadowbane for example. In Shadowbane, high level characters would hang out in low level groups to protect their guild members. And if a pk was detected, the whole guild would hunt down and kill the pker.
And even if you were a lowbie out by yourself, their was a thing called track. Pkers would show up on track long before they got to you. So you could just recall.
But what would people do? Instead of going to an out of the way area where there are no pkers, they go to the main are where all the pkers are. Then they are too lazy to check track. Then they are outraged when someone kills them. Then they go back to the same area and let the same person kill them over and over again. These people are morons and deserve to be killed!
So you see there are plenty of tools to protect yourself from pkers. But people are too stupid to use them, and then cry when they get killed.
Its a very similar social structure in L2.
The primary difference is that it is much more difficult to get into a good guild because they are limited in size. 40 members at the most. They are very fussy about who they take in. A single "griefer" could do alot of damage to a good guild if the guild did not approve of that behavior and it caused another guild to get angry with it. I've seen clan wars start over a single killing.
You also run the chance of ticking off your GM. No one (good or evil GM) likes to log into mails about ganks and declarations of war. You might find yourself booted out of the guild and on their Kill on Sight list if you cause to much aggrivation for them! If fellow guildies start dieing and loosing gear because you got them into a guild war you are not gonna be to popular.
If a high level is haunting the Newbie isle there isn't much you can do besides avoid them. Watch their name, if it turns RED "yell" PKer at (where ever you are) That might bring you some help. Everyone likes to kill REDs because they have an increased chance of dropping an item.
I got griefed as a low level Human in that isle too, by Legendkiller and others. It sucked, I lost levels, I called him names, but in the end you need to pick up your gear and keep grinding; so that one day you may join the hunters and kill the PKers or the hunted and kill newbies. Yes greifers in L2 are the hunted, not the hunters. That is why they hand around newbie zones. The hunters don't go there to often, which is why you get the feeling that this game is all about griefing.
In reality the majority of PvP I have encountered so far in this game as a lvl 21 Palus Knight, is killing bots, and people who don't want to share farming grounds. Some you win and others you lose. Either way, I respect the power. If they can overpower me and kick me off my land or off their land, then they deserve it. If you want it back, make friends or bring your friends and take it back.
Honestly, L2 shows that an open pvp system is the only way to deal with people being rude and asses. If they are rude...kill them.
In today's MMOGs, there is no reason to be upset at PKs, griefers and scammers.
If you don't like PKers, don't play PvP games with open PvP.
If you don't like Griefers, play games with strict GM enforcement of rules...there are plenty of them on the market.
If you don't like scammers...don't be an idiot an engage in a trade that is clearly "too good to be true."
---
In the old days where there were maybe 5 or so MMOGs to choose from (namely UO, EQ, AC, AO, and DAoC) there wasn't much you could do about it...you couldn't really "vote with your feet" and move on to a gameplay that suits your playstyle.
But now, you have no excuse at all. There is a game on the market that suits your playstyle...and more coming every year. So stop whining.
..please...
Seriously pking/scamming/griefing are a part of every mmorpg that allows it
And if you cant deal with stuff like that just move to a game where its more or less
impossible for another player to interfere with your gameplay .. i mean who wants to be
disturbed while their mindlessly grinding AI programmed polygons/pixels by a real human being
in a mmorpg...? seriously
But you missed my point.
What i wanted to do with this little poll is kind of a social agreement ,
set a code of chivalry ( i am hopeless romantic i know ) for friends that gather at mmorpg.com
I for one stand firm by this code, and i am proud of this
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Right here is my Code of chivalry ..
You will Kill
You will loot
You will laugh
You will die
You will kill some more
And when your bored you'll axe some newbs
Good for you. Find like-minded people and play the games you all enjoy.
You cannot, and will never find agreement with everyone on this issue. Trying to force everyone else into your narrow cultural worldview is downright naive.
Jerks are attracted to PK/PVP games because it is easy for them to PK new players.
All you need is to either grind like crazy or buy items on ebay.
And than you can be king!!!
THE KING OF FOOLS!
All in all the lesson is plain.
If you play PVP/PK games
1. You are either a jerk
2. Somebody whos patience borders on macohism , being able to look all the idiots around you.
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
If you play PVP/PK games
1. You are either a jerk
2. Somebody whos patience borders on macohism , being able to look all the idiots around you.
Wrong.
My guild in UO were what is now labelled "RPK".....or "Roleplay Killers". We RPed Pirates(the United Pirates for those that knew us). Pirates WILL kill you for no reason other than to loot your corpse....its part of the RP. Now as games developed over the years, many a Dev would cater to the "carebear" crowd, and either not allow open PvP, or allow it only under certain circumstances.
Now I dont consider myself a "jerk", and at the age of 44 I have indeed developed a sense of patience, not only for those "idiots" around me who PK and grief(the pkers I dont mind, the griefers and scammers are 'tards for sure), but also for those who whine endlessly about PKers/griefers.
Bottom line Rattrap - dont generalize about people and their motivations....some may frankly suprise you.
Rattrap, you missed alot of good post here.
Many people agree with you about the PKing of noobs. A few even from PvP games like myself.
Stop reading what you want to read and read it ALL.
One guy in all those replies advocated killing noobs.
Wow , that is probably the case then.
I know they all roleplay crazy pscyhopats that although they are muredrously crazy are also godly powerfull!!!
Cmmon Laffite , as an inteligent person I see you are ... you surely see and deep down know that it is all about harrasing other people
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Couldnt disagree more....
Its not about harassment, Its about playing a "role", and its not "grief" either. What you seem to be saying here is that non-consentual PvP in ANY form = grief.....I'm sorry but I really just disagree with this point of view.
While we were raiding the seas in UO we would RP it all the way, and received MANY compliments for our RP from the very people that we waylaid. We would shy away from Noobs to be sure, but with the Noobs we did capture, we would just shanghai and bring them along with us for an hour or so, then either kill them (and then promptly rez them and give them some gold/weaps/etc for the effort if they went along with it) or maroon them on an isle or something....This was a recruiting technique, and it worked rather well.
This is what my guild did rattrap, as for other PKers, I cannot speak for them.
people PK/pvp in games mostly for the competition and the randomness found in other players
an NPC will never offer any of that .. ever
Secondly i love PKing even when im not playing a PK .. why? becouse of the danger of not
knowing if im going to be able to survive all the way to town or out of that dungeon when my pockets
are filled with loot , its FUN
I am lvl 60. I am on my way to a newbie village where lvl 1-10 do their quests. It is on remote island far away from any higher lvl quest destination. I love danger , thats why i will stand in front of entrance of the village and kill any player that comes out.But i am cunning too , when I see a player with better equipment , i will be smartly warned end retreat 5 steps into the village.
Wow, this kind of kick , and adrenaline rush i never get from NPC's
I am awsome , lineage 2 is so great! I only need to buy some more equipment on ebay.
What a fun!
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
people who join pvp servers, then cry when they get killed are idiots. People who make posts on MMorpg.com crying even more are extreme idiots.
Congrats rattrap, you are the biggest idiot there is.