Originally posted by Rekindle IMHO - SOE sucks the biggest suckiest suck of all the sucks Discuss..........
LOL! Okay, even though that post wasn't very "constructive" it had a comical beginning and made me laugh ... which is always nice.
Slight and respectful correction -- you can talk about SOE & Sigil on the official boards, in fact, there is a huge thread about it and it gets bumped every few days. It's just that the posters on the official boards are more focused on game news rather than the SOE situation.
You can either accept or reject their explanation. It certainly is your choice.
As for whether SOE will eventually "ruin" Vanguard, I cannot say. My crystal ball does not receive that channel. You have to decide for yourself.
However, the way the game is shaping up (slowly, but steadily) with Beta 3 (and 4 and 5) still to come, and the great amount of developer feedback we receive (far more than any other developing game that I have followed) might I suggest the following:
Take a short break from following Vanguard and wait till about, errr, December. Check on the game again, see if you still have problems with it -- admittedly, the SOE thing will not really go away -- and make a decision based on the game development you see at that point.
If you then still have a problem with Vanguard (the game as it is) or their affiliation with SOE, then, okay, at least you gave it a fair shot.
Originally posted by pharone1 The thing that amazes me is that you Vanguard fanbois can't realize this is not a small thing where a few people are upset with Sony Online Entertainment.
Anyone who pulls out the "fanboi" word is just an ignorant, tiny little person living over their parents garage. Have fun not playing the best MMORPG ever.
Originally posted by Agricola1 Originally posted by Apache_ I still see people arguing that SOE is just publishing, and will not have anything to do with the game itself. But as I have said before, Sigil and SOE are now buisness partners, and both are bound by contract to perform in some manner stipulated by thier contract. Neither company is going to enter into a potentially long term business relationship without a contract stipulating what each company is going to be responsible for. That being said...I doubt that SOE is going to enter into a partnership where SOE has all the responsibilities, and let Sigil do whatever they want whenever they want. I have no doubt that SOE has expectations that they expect Sigil to meet wich is no doubt stipulated in thier contract. Wich if not met, could put SOE in a potentially powerfull position. So in short....Both companies are required to perform in some manner. Both expect certain things from each other. And if SOE has expectations that are to be delivered from the Developers .......see?
/Agree 100%
I see. You're both blind with hatred. SOE is publishing, setting up servers and doing tech support. THAT is what is in their contract. SOE doesn't get to have any expectations period.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... Shouldn't you be playing DnL?
I'm not really trying to be an ass.... just want to point out that you have been wrong before when it comes to giving a game a chance. SOE is the co-publisher. Do you understand what a publisher is? They are providing financial backing, as well as delivering the finished product. They will not sit idly by and throw good money at a game they don't think is going the right direction. They would have every right, as the co=publisher to ask that changes be made. Your refusal to believe they would request or demand game breaking changes only tells me you didn't play SWG.
Originally posted by SpiritofGame Originally posted by Rekindle IMHO - SOE sucks the biggest suckiest suck of all the sucks Discuss..........
LOL! Okay, even though that post wasn't very "constructive" it had a comical beginning and made me laugh ... which is always nice.
Slight and respectful correction -- you can talk about SOE & Sigil on the official boards, in fact, there is a huge thread about it and it gets bumped every few days. It's just that the posters on the official boards are more focused on game news rather than the SOE situation.
You can either accept or reject their explanation. It certainly is your choice.
As for whether SOE will eventually "ruin" Vanguard, I cannot say. My crystal ball does not receive that channel. You have to decide for yourself.
However, the way the game is shaping up (slowly, but steadily) with Beta 3 (and 4 and 5) still to come, and the great amount of developer feedback we receive (far more than any other developing game that I have followed) might I suggest the following:
Take a short break from following Vanguard and wait till about, errr, December. Check on the game again, see if you still have problems with it -- admittedly, the SOE thing will not really go away -- and make a decision based on the game development you see at that point.
If you then still have a problem with Vanguard (the game as it is) or their affiliation with SOE, then, okay, at least you gave it a fair shot.
I'm not sure who necro'd this thread (and I know its long) but I've already retracted my statement about not being able to discuss it.
Maybe the mods will be nice on me and let this thread die - I cite the fact that there's a sticky at the top in the spirit of this conversation - a sticky that doesn't have my name as the orginator.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Agricola1 Originally posted by Apache_ I still see people arguing that SOE is just publishing, and will not have anything to do with the game itself. But as I have said before, Sigil and SOE are now buisness partners, and both are bound by contract to perform in some manner stipulated by thier contract. Neither company is going to enter into a potentially long term business relationship without a contract stipulating what each company is going to be responsible for. That being said...I doubt that SOE is going to enter into a partnership where SOE has all the responsibilities, and let Sigil do whatever they want whenever they want. I have no doubt that SOE has expectations that they expect Sigil to meet wich is no doubt stipulated in thier contract. Wich if not met, could put SOE in a potentially powerfull position. So in short....Both companies are required to perform in some manner. Both expect certain things from each other. And if SOE has expectations that are to be delivered from the Developers .......see?
/Agree 100%
I see. You're both blind with hatred. SOE is publishing, setting up servers and doing tech support. THAT is what is in their contract. SOE doesn't get to have any expectations period.
Ok. And you know this how? Did you see the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Would you be kind enough to give us a link?
Not to offend, but if youre going by what they "say".....well. What SOE says, and what SOE does are very often 2 very different things. There is a very real reason why SOE has the reputation it has now. Wich is why people are sceptical about this situation.
In all honesty it very well could be something very simple. Like let SOE put Vanguard on its Station Access Pass. It really could be as simple as that. But knowing SOE there is a hook somewhere. A catch.
Even though I dont trust SOE, I truely hope it all works out for you and the rest of the players. I honestly do. But be cautious. Try not to prepay a year in advance. Take it month by month if you can. Just in case
Originally posted by Apache_ Ok. And you know this how? Did you see the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Would you be kind enough to give us a link? Not to offend, but if youre going by what they "say".....well. What SOE says, and what SOE does are very often 2 very different things. There is a very real reason why SOE has the reputation it has now. Wich is why people are sceptical about this situation. In all honesty it very well could be something very simple. Like let SOE put Vanguard on its Station Access Pass. It really could be as simple as that. But knowing SOE there is a hook somewhere. A catch. Even though I dont trust SOE, I truely hope it all works out for you and the rest of the players. I honestly do. But be cautious. Try not to prepay a year in advance. Take it month by month if you can. Just in case Good Luck
I don't believe anything because SOE said so, I believe it because Brad says so. Now, have you seen the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Could you provide a link with proof that Brad is lying? If not, why should I believe an anon message board poster over the CEO of Sigil?
Originally posted by n2sooners Originally posted by Apache_ Ok. And you know this how? Did you see the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Would you be kind enough to give us a link? Not to offend, but if youre going by what they "say".....well. What SOE says, and what SOE does are very often 2 very different things. There is a very real reason why SOE has the reputation it has now. Wich is why people are sceptical about this situation. In all honesty it very well could be something very simple. Like let SOE put Vanguard on its Station Access Pass. It really could be as simple as that. But knowing SOE there is a hook somewhere. A catch. Even though I dont trust SOE, I truely hope it all works out for you and the rest of the players. I honestly do. But be cautious. Try not to prepay a year in advance. Take it month by month if you can. Just in case Good Luck
I don't believe anything because SOE said so, I believe it because Brad says so. Now, have you seen the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Could you provide a link with proof that Brad is lying? If not, why should I believe an anon message board poster over the CEO of Sigil?
lol Easy there big fella. Im not your enemy here. Dont want to be either.
Look. We all want to believe Sigil. We all want Vanguard to do well. We all want to trust Brad. But what you not seeing is that people dont trust SOE. People are affraid SOE will try something tricky and pull the carpet out from under everyone. Sure Brad says not to worry. Sure Brad says that SOE is held in check. And sure we want to stand behind him. But SOE adds a whole new dimension to this. Even though people want to trust Brad, they dont trust SOE. And for good reason. People are affraid that maybe...Just maybe, there could be something in the contract that could possibly give a little control to SOE. Possibly a loop hole that SOE could exploit....Maybe. Nobody knows. Not you, and certainly not myself.
I have already made up my mind not to trust SOE, and you have already made up your mind to trust Sigil. Lets just agree to disagree and part peacefully. But yet again I say just be cautious. It couldnt hurt, and could only help.
Don't be naïve, Brad has grown up, he probably has kids. He wants a comfortable life for him and his family. He wants big money now, he doesn't care too much about games anymore. He is thinking about how half a milion or a milion dollars will look like in his bank account.
Originally posted by altairzq Don't be naïve, Brad has grown up, he probably has kids. He wants a comfortable life for him and his family. He wants big money now, he doesn't care too much about games anymore. He is thinking about how half a milion or a milion dollars will look like in his bank account.
And who can blame him?
Brad has already made his big bucks. Like he has said before, he doesn't have to make games anymore, he could retire right now. The only reason he left SOE is because he ended up in a position where he was no longer doing what he likes and that is making games. Unless you believe him to be a bald faced liar, then giving up control of Sigil to SOE would be pretty much the last thing he wants to do.
Who cares if SOE sucks. Don't waste your time and just play the game. Unless, of course, you really never cared about playing vanguard to begin with. If that's the case, go spam some other board.
Yet to see SoE make any statement that they are even interferring with creation of vanguard.However EA has already moved their developers into WAR in less then a month.
So where is SoE the devil in here?would u rather have EA take over vanguard and move their staff in or SoE who has not shown any evidence of interferring with vanguard.
Don't ramble speak with evidence when you talk.Got no proof then shut up.
Originally posted by JMoney95 I wonder if all the haters will ever realize SOE has nothing to do with the game itself. Only things outside of the game. Probably not.
Not sure how SOE is gonna wreck Vanguard without ever getting a say what happens to the design.
I feel sorry for you if you honestly believe the BS they are feeding us. Good luck though.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Originally posted by VixenHeart Why don't you like SOE? Because they have one bad mistake [SWG]? Some people are so fast to pull the trigger, just because other people are shooting at each other doesn't mean it's right.
Clearly you have no idea of what happened with SWG ...right? and forgot why McQuaid left EQ and handed it out to SOE ....right?
Originally posted by Rekindle IMHO - SOE sucks the biggest suckiest suck of all the sucks--- Vanguard turns into the biggest disappointment of all time by associating with them (takes the torch from SWG - NGE)- Despite what the fancy FAQs say this is a bad move for Sigil. Now when you walk into a store to buy Vanguard Saga Of Heros it will (I'm assuming) have a big SOE logo on the box.....I would have never imagined in a million years. For over 2 years Sigil has been reading about how bad we hate SOE and they make this move...imagine. For me Brad McQuaid's vision of EQ defined everything good about it, SOE's vision defined everything that was bad. The fact Sigil has re-affiliated itself with these SOB's is just so bad. Even if they make hte best game in the world any hope of Sigil filling in **my** MMORPG gaming void is all but lost now. Discuss..........
How can this news make you upset If you've been following Vanguard?? U do know that SOE will have "NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEVELOPMENT STAGE OF VG COREECT???"
SOE is only the Publisher of VG,THAT IS ALL..
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Originally posted by Pasho Originally posted by VixenHeart Why don't you like SOE? Because they have one bad mistake [SWG]? Some people are so fast to pull the trigger, just because other people are shooting at each other doesn't mean it's right.
Clearly you have no idea of what happened with SWG ...right? and forgot why McQuaid left EQ and handed it out to SOE ....right?
First, SWG was entirely run by SOE and Lucas Arts from the very beginning, and it still is. SOE comes up with ideas, and Lucas Arts approves or disproves them. There is no other company involved so there is no comparison to SWG and Vanguard no matter how much the haters would like it to be so.
Second, it seems you have no clue in the first place on what happened with EQ. Brad never entirely owned EQ. Verant was started with backing from Sony. Sony always had a piece of EQ. And when they saw it was successful, they bought it out. Brad was never really in a position to do anything other than what he did. Verant became SOE, and Brad was given a high position in the company. But before SoL released he decided to leave because his position in the company left him with very little hands on when it came to game creation which is what he wanted to do. He left on good terms and still has friends at SOE. He had lots of cash and a cushy job at SOE already, why would he risk his money to create another game company only to sell out and end up right back where he was to beging with?
Originally posted by Rekindle IMHO - SOE sucks the biggest suckiest suck of all the sucks--- Vanguard turns into the biggest disappointment of all time by associating with them (takes the torch from SWG - NGE)- Despite what the fancy FAQs say this is a bad move for Sigil. Now when you walk into a store to buy Vanguard Saga Of Heros it will (I'm assuming) have a big SOE logo on the box.....I would have never imagined in a million years. For over 2 years Sigil has been reading about how bad we hate SOE and they make this move...imagine. For me Brad McQuaid's vision of EQ defined everything good about it, SOE's vision defined everything that was bad. The fact Sigil has re-affiliated itself with these SOB's is just so bad. Even if they make hte best game in the world any hope of Sigil filling in **my** MMORPG gaming void is all but lost now. Discuss..........
Ok people this is what stereotyping is all about. Can anyone please tell me why someone can bash a company because of some forum posts (2002) that started it all and they continue to believe it so it makes them a bad company, come on and grow up. This is so old, comparing EQ to SOE and making the assumption because it had EQ its obviously a failure to anyone else who uses SOE. Why people think SOE is a failure is because people associated forum posts with the junk little kids kept saying about what EQ was compared to the new MMO's that where coming out, saying how EQ was this and that and how it took peoples lifes away. But they dont still realize that EQ and SOE started the whole MMO community, yet they keep bashing them. Yes Verant had it before SOE but they don't really get credit from to many people for starting the real MMO race as SOE does. And UO was an MMO out way before this but it wasn't something that started the whole new series of MMO's like EQ & SOE did.
First of all vangaurd has already floped. No one whats a game with the same exact theam as WOW, thats underdelevloped, and part of SOE. This game wont hit 100k players. As far as the "HUGE LEAP" In gaming , i dont think it has a chance in hell its gonn happen. plenty of people have played the beta and said its just like DNL. This game will flop because of SOE. I think its funny how brad says vangaurd is being made for windows vista. You can all trust me when i say that that is never going to happen. Its just "planned" like all the other content in the game.
You are entirely correct .....earlier in this thread I mentioned that I REGRET WHAT I SAID ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT on the Vanguard forums. I am deeply regretful of making that statement despite any animosity I have regarding this situation. I completly and utterly retract any statements about not being able to talk about this issue. That comment was a prime example of me speaking before thinking. Despite the negativity people are expressing about the subject Sigil has done a very good job in allowing threads on the subject and are only consolidating threads as they would in any situation. I don't like what is happening but it was entirely unfair of me to add that little part....if I could edit the title of the thread I would.
ps. See people can indeed admit when they've made a mistake!
I don't like what is happening but it was entirely unfair of me to add that little part....if I could edit the title of the thread I would.
ps. See people can indeed admit when they've made a mistake!
I said I made a mistake almost three months ago yet this thread lives. Its one thing to be upset with a decision and then retract things you shouldn't have said - and its quite another to rant and rave with no valid backing.
Can somoene please lock this thread in favor of the sticky at the top?
Originally posted by Benz00First of all vangaurd has already floped. No one whats a game with the same exact theam as WOW, thats underdelevloped, and part of SOE. This game wont hit 100k players. As far as the "HUGE LEAP" In gaming , i dont think it has a chance in hell its gonn happen. plenty of people have played the beta and said its just like DNL. This game will flop because of SOE. I think its funny how brad says vangaurd is being made for windows vista. You can all trust me when i say that that is never going to happen. Its just "planned" like all the other content in the game.
i wouldn't hold your breath on that one, i know you are just trolling but i will take all bets that this game will be far better than Dnl at release AND that it will indeed have more than 100k subs.
i wouldn't hold your breath on that one, i know you are just trolling but i will take all bets that this game will be far better than Dnl at release AND that it will indeed have more than 100k subs.
Aw come-on be fair. D&L would have sucked in a vacuum. Blizzard could fart on a keyboard and make a better game than D&L.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
i wouldn't hold your breath on that one, i know you are just trolling but i will take all bets that this game will be far better than Dnl at release AND that it will indeed have more than 100k subs. Aw come-on be fair. D&L would have sucked in a vacuum. Blizzard could fart on a keyboard and make a better game than D&L.
i agree, thats why i thought that post was so obsurd where the guy said this "plenty of people have played the beta and said its just like DNL."...i think even the sigil/soe haters can agree vanguard will be better than Dnl.
Comments
Slight and respectful correction -- you can talk about SOE & Sigil on the official boards, in fact, there is a huge thread about it and it gets bumped every few days. It's just that the posters on the official boards are more focused on game news rather than the SOE situation.
A great furor was made about the SOE deal and Sigil responded: Sigil & SOE (from SV FAQs).
You can either accept or reject their explanation. It certainly is your choice.
As for whether SOE will eventually "ruin" Vanguard, I cannot say. My crystal ball does not receive that channel. You have to decide for yourself.
However, the way the game is shaping up (slowly, but steadily) with Beta 3 (and 4 and 5) still to come, and the great amount of developer feedback we receive (far more than any other developing game that I have followed) might I suggest the following:
Take a short break from following Vanguard and wait till about, errr, December. Check on the game again, see if you still have problems with it -- admittedly, the SOE thing will not really go away -- and make a decision based on the game development you see at that point.
If you then still have a problem with Vanguard (the game as it is) or their affiliation with SOE, then, okay, at least you gave it a fair shot.
~ Ancient Membership ~
I see. You're both blind with hatred. SOE is publishing, setting up servers and doing tech support. THAT is what is in their contract. SOE doesn't get to have any expectations period.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.... Shouldn't you be playing DnL?
I'm not really trying to be an ass.... just want to point out that you have been wrong before when it comes to giving a game a chance. SOE is the co-publisher. Do you understand what a publisher is? They are providing financial backing, as well as delivering the finished product. They will not sit idly by and throw good money at a game they don't think is going the right direction. They would have every right, as the co=publisher to ask that changes be made. Your refusal to believe they would request or demand game breaking changes only tells me you didn't play SWG.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Slight and respectful correction -- you can talk about SOE & Sigil on the official boards, in fact, there is a huge thread about it and it gets bumped every few days. It's just that the posters on the official boards are more focused on game news rather than the SOE situation.
A great furor was made about the SOE deal and Sigil responded: Sigil & SOE (from SV FAQs).
You can either accept or reject their explanation. It certainly is your choice.
As for whether SOE will eventually "ruin" Vanguard, I cannot say. My crystal ball does not receive that channel. You have to decide for yourself.
However, the way the game is shaping up (slowly, but steadily) with Beta 3 (and 4 and 5) still to come, and the great amount of developer feedback we receive (far more than any other developing game that I have followed) might I suggest the following:
Take a short break from following Vanguard and wait till about, errr, December. Check on the game again, see if you still have problems with it -- admittedly, the SOE thing will not really go away -- and make a decision based on the game development you see at that point.
If you then still have a problem with Vanguard (the game as it is) or their affiliation with SOE, then, okay, at least you gave it a fair shot.
I'm not sure who necro'd this thread (and I know its long) but I've already retracted my statement about not being able to discuss it.
Maybe the mods will be nice on me and let this thread die - I cite the fact that there's a sticky at the top in the spirit of this conversation - a sticky that doesn't have my name as the orginator.
I see. You're both blind with hatred. SOE is publishing, setting up servers and doing tech support. THAT is what is in their contract. SOE doesn't get to have any expectations period.
Ok. And you know this how? Did you see the contract? Is it posted somewhere? Would you be kind enough to give us a link?
Not to offend, but if youre going by what they "say".....well. What SOE says, and what SOE does are very often 2 very different things. There is a very real reason why SOE has the reputation it has now. Wich is why people are sceptical about this situation.
In all honesty it very well could be something very simple. Like let SOE put Vanguard on its Station Access Pass. It really could be as simple as that. But knowing SOE there is a hook somewhere. A catch.
Even though I dont trust SOE, I truely hope it all works out for you and the rest of the players. I honestly do. But be cautious. Try not to prepay a year in advance. Take it month by month if you can. Just in case
Good Luck
lol Easy there big fella. Im not your enemy here. Dont want to be either.
Look. We all want to believe Sigil. We all want Vanguard to do well. We all want to trust Brad. But what you not seeing is that people dont trust SOE. People are affraid SOE will try something tricky and pull the carpet out from under everyone. Sure Brad says not to worry. Sure Brad says that SOE is held in check. And sure we want to stand behind him. But SOE adds a whole new dimension to this. Even though people want to trust Brad, they dont trust SOE. And for good reason. People are affraid that maybe...Just maybe, there could be something in the contract that could possibly give a little control to SOE. Possibly a loop hole that SOE could exploit....Maybe. Nobody knows. Not you, and certainly not myself.
I have already made up my mind not to trust SOE, and you have already made up your mind to trust Sigil. Lets just agree to disagree and part peacefully. But yet again I say just be cautious. It couldnt hurt, and could only help.
Best of luck
And who can blame him?
http://twitter.com/xmcgraw
Yet to see SoE make any statement that they are even interferring with creation of vanguard.However EA has already moved their developers into WAR in less then a month.
www.uo.com
So where is SoE the devil in here?would u rather have EA take over vanguard and move their staff in or SoE who has not shown any evidence of interferring with vanguard.
Don't ramble speak with evidence when you talk.Got no proof then shut up.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Clearly you have no idea of what happened with SWG ...right? and forgot why McQuaid left EQ and handed it out to SOE ....right?
How can this news make you upset If you've been following Vanguard?? U do know that SOE will have "NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEVELOPMENT STAGE OF VG COREECT???"
SOE is only the Publisher of VG,THAT IS ALL..
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
Clearly you have no idea of what happened with SWG ...right? and forgot why McQuaid left EQ and handed it out to SOE ....right?
First, SWG was entirely run by SOE and Lucas Arts from the very beginning, and it still is. SOE comes up with ideas, and Lucas Arts approves or disproves them. There is no other company involved so there is no comparison to SWG and Vanguard no matter how much the haters would like it to be so.
Second, it seems you have no clue in the first place on what happened with EQ. Brad never entirely owned EQ. Verant was started with backing from Sony. Sony always had a piece of EQ. And when they saw it was successful, they bought it out. Brad was never really in a position to do anything other than what he did. Verant became SOE, and Brad was given a high position in the company. But before SoL released he decided to leave because his position in the company left him with very little hands on when it came to game creation which is what he wanted to do. He left on good terms and still has friends at SOE. He had lots of cash and a cushy job at SOE already, why would he risk his money to create another game company only to sell out and end up right back where he was to beging with?
dudes, $oe is going down the tubes. they might not be here to publish anything in '07. we can hope.
I said I made a mistake almost three months ago yet this thread lives. Its one thing to be upset with a decision and then retract things you shouldn't have said - and its quite another to rant and rave with no valid backing.
Can somoene please lock this thread in favor of the sticky at the top?
i wouldn't hold your breath on that one, i know you are just trolling but i will take all bets that this game will be far better than Dnl at release AND that it will indeed have more than 100k subs.
i wouldn't hold your breath on that one, i know you are just trolling but i will take all bets that this game will be far better than Dnl at release AND that it will indeed have more than 100k subs.
Aw come-on be fair. D&L would have sucked in a vacuum. Blizzard could fart on a keyboard and make a better game than D&L.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
i agree, thats why i thought that post was so obsurd where the guy said this "plenty of people have played the beta and said its just like DNL."...i think even the sigil/soe haters can agree vanguard will be better than Dnl.