Originally posted by angeldevil This game will be the most popular all over the world.
I doubt it. The game has been out for quite a long time, and the subscriber base isn't that big outside Asia. In fact, it's quite a marginal title. I really don't see how all of a sudden massive amounts of people are going to play this game.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by DarkHeart2 NC said there will be 12 in all. Then they will stop with chronicals and just add small addons now and then. However, Lineage 3 will be released around C9-10.
L3 will take more than 3 years to be developed, official sentence, and L2 will continue as L1 did and still doing
Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by angeldevil This game will be the most popular all over the world.
I doubt it. The game has been out for quite a long time, and the subscriber base isn't that big outside Asia. In fact, it's quite a marginal title. I really don't see how all of a sudden massive amounts of people are going to play this game.
The game isn't marginal.....its us North American players are marginal. They all think its to hard and b^%ch endlessly about the bots, the economy and the grind like little fricking sissies like no other game has them.
They all want WoW style gameplay where you can basically zombie out and hit cap in a semi conscience state within a few days and have all the best gear within a few weeks. Then grind twice as hard then we ever will at raiding and safe little PvP zones, where there is no danger whatso ever, for honor that constantly slides back like a hamster wheel and they like it better.
PvP that you don't even need to pay attention to, its so damn easy and scripted and safe. People actually join groups and then "hide" or go AFK and soak up the honor points everyone else is raking up. Its pathetic. (I made Alliance Capt without much effort at all) Its all about getting the uber gear just like L2.
And don't get me started on Farmers in other games, you are naive if you think L2 is the only game with them. For every farmer in L2 there are hundreds in WoW. Farmers that will go out of their way to mess up your play just to get you out of "their" area.
Before WoW it wasn't EQ or DAoC or AC or any North American game that was top dog, it was L1 / L2 and FFXI Worldwide. Sony shut down EQII and SWG in Asia because they spotted it for the crap it was.
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
(sorry that all slippedmaybe Im wrong, most WoW players are Asian anyway lol)
Originally posted by Atomicide may i ask how they have made it easier? As far as im aware and im going on bits ive heard from people but is it true they have raised the level cap to 80, or is it still 75? The last confirmed peice of nes i hear that intrested me was the fact newbies can now swap NG weapons + the difference in Adena for the next weapon up the line. Edit: im not saying your wrong or something (the question does sound like that) but im actually genuinely intrested in the steps they made to improve leveling.
Well, it can still be challenging. It is easier to go from 1-20 and I hear 20-40 is easier. However, my main is 74 and I get .01% per kill. So, it is "easier" but only compared to what has gone before in the game.
And an interesting thing to note, Mystrial (gm) indicated, on a thread asking about server transfers (which have never been implemented) that though server transfers are not in the works they are working on other options for their servers.
So that should be interesting.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
Granted there are some bugs but all mmo's have them. What huge bugs are in existance right now?
Sieges were on at the start of chronicle 1, which was a month after launch. I dont' know what you are talking about that sieges were not switched on for quite a while. At that point in the game it didn't matter anyways because only 1% of the population could reach upper 40's or lower 50's by the end of the first month. There was no way you could take a castle in the first month even if they had sieges activated.
There are 12 pre-planned chronicles. Each one is a set expansion. I seriously don't think you even play this game or you obviously don't know much about it.
Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
LoL, the chronicles are free. You are comparing apples and oranges. The players knew up front about the 12 chronicles. You can not seriously compare the chronicles to games like SWG and EQ and EQII are you????? All three of those games put out expansions and changes YOU THE PLAYER need to pay for. Hardly even close to the dollar value of L2.
SWG - you want space combat, you are paying extra. You want more high level content, you are paying extra. On top of it, the game has been so radically altered (3 times) that its not even close to the same game it was at launch. Its a P.O.S. You go ahead and try to convince me that SWG is a solid quality game. If there is one game out there I want to love its SWG. But every time I turn the damn thing on, they fricking change the entire core mechanic of the game. (see the SWG forums for this whole arguement, its to long to get into here)
EQII - you want the new achievment points, you pay extra. You want new content, you pay extra. On top of it, EQII has to be the blandest generic fantasy world ever made. I just rapped up playing this hidiously dull game. You can not promise me that SOE will not charge me the next time they change a mechanic. You can not because they will as they have in every game in every expansion they have released
EQ - I don't even know where to start there are so many expansions and things you need to pay extra for.
In some cases its alterations to the core mechanics that you must pay extra for. Nope sorry, you failed to convince me. All I need to do is keep pointing to SWG, EQII, D&DO, RFO, Horizons, and SoR. All games released to early had issues and in ALL of them STILL issues. STILL revamps, STILL more expansions charging for changes and content that could be free. You can not tell me that EQII Kingdom of Sky has a better value then C4. Sorry it doesn't. It changes the core character developement and raises the level cap and charges YOU the player, money to have it.
D&DO is so massively bare boned and incomplete trash, if you had played it, I know you wouldn't have said this I'm sure there will be an "upgrade" because the game bombed and its a piece of crap and I'm sure YOU the player will need to pay for it.
Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
Our North American designed games have promise but we execute like sh*t. Our quality is for sh*t. We have one (1) polished, solid game. ONE. Even that one plans to stick it to the player by charging extra for core changes. Level cap raised, new races.
YOU the player should NOT have to pay for level cap raises. You should not have to pay for alterations to the core mechanics. OK, content and new ideas and features, I can live with that. But to charge me extra money so I can continue to advance my charcter is WRONG.
L2 has had level cap raises. Not one time did the player need to pay for it. L2 has added 4 chronicles worth of content each equal in size or greater then any EQ I or II expansion....for free. The core mechanics of L2 are still intact from release. It has NOT been radically altered. L2 and FFXI have continued to enhance and refine while most other games rip themselves apart and try to reinvent themselves every 6 months. Yes there are tweaks and nerfs but there always are and AT NO EXPENSE TO YOU THE PLAYER. So go ahead and keep feeding these companies your good hard earned money for crap incomplete games and then happily shell out cash for changes and alterations that they do.
All you are saying is that you don't like the game. Thats cool. Its a hard game and not for everyone.
EDIT
And don't give that trival content crap. Like any MMO has engaging dynamic content. Please. Its all kill task. WoW - simplistic trival kill task. EQII - the master of simplistic kill task. Yes you to can have up to 50 mind numbing kill task to keep track of or delievery if you like. SWG, go kill 10 ____ and return for your reward. Shall I continue? L2's content is IDENTICLE to every other game out there. Mindless Kill task.
The only MMO's that even came close to RPG story like content that engages you are FFXI and GW (as much as I hate GW's community, it does has a decent plot, to bad its so scripted)
I'm glad the Korean developers have never heard of the godawfull word: Expansion.
I recently bought Everquest 2: Kingdom of sky and I already regret it. because its such a bad game? No. in fact, I think its a pretty fun game.
but besides a nice monthly fee of 15$ a month, I also get to pay for:
3 so called "adventure packs" which cost another 21$ in total
another expansion for 30$
and by the end of the year, I have to pay ANOTHER 30$ for ANOTHER expansion
and If I played Everquest 2 before the expansions went live, then I also had to pay for the normal game.
on a row:
Everquest 2, 50$ first exp: 30$ 2nd exp: 30$ 3rd Exp: 30$ all 3 adv packs: 21$
Total: 141$ Just for the client. this is what a player who played Everquest 2 since release will have paid at the end of this year, when the 3rd expansion pack arrives. and with all this he still can't play, because he also has to pay a monthly fee. its rediculous I have to pay this much just to play the entire game.
and a Lineage 2 player? (or any person who plays Korean MMO's)
they paid 50$ and just the normal fee.
and to be honnest, altough both games are very diffrent from each other, I don't see much diffrence in quality.
Originally posted by anakinsella ^very well put Torak.
You're love for L2 and honesty always makes me wanna reactivate.
Would you say it's too late for someone to start fresh in L2? If i reactivated i'd want to start fresh on a a new server probably.
why would it be too late?
I can recommend servers, go to Lionna or Bartz. Theyre very good. I re-activated a couple weeks ago. I had 2 toons which played in C1-C2. Both were 30, and 35. I decided to park them (and yes, twink my newbies with their adena and gear) and re-roll
If you start on a new server, your first character you play to level 6 becomes your novice. He can get free buffs, soulshots (for completing quests etc.) and trade in N-grade gear for better. Since I twinked, I didnt take advantage of this but the list of buffs alone would be very nice.
I see new players in starter cities all the time. The only problem is selling N-grade gear. Its almost impossible since new players just trade up, and other players are already top geared since theyre playing alts. Not until you hit 20 will you really be able to participate in the market and selling your gear to other players in Dion. Unlike how it was when I played it, hitting 20 takes a matter of days depending on how/where you play. Its nothing like it used to be.
To make this short, no its not too late. However, yer not gonna max level in 2 months to do raids. Theres a sense of accomplishment with this game that lacks in other games that you always hear people complain about "I maxed to 60 in 3 months and got bored of raiding for gear". I will say, if anyone feels they need to be top level to compete in this game...thats a very false assumption. This game is very competetive and fun through all the levels.
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I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
Granted there are some bugs but all mmo's have them. What huge bugs are in existance right now?
Sieges were on at the start of chronicle 1, which was a month after launch. I dont' know what you are talking about that sieges were not switched on for quite a while. At that point in the game it didn't matter anyways because only 1% of the population could reach upper 40's or lower 50's by the end of the first month. There was no way you could take a castle in the first month even if they had sieges activated.
There are 12 pre-planned chronicles. Each one is a set expansion. I seriously don't think you even play this game or you obviously don't know much about it.
Played it for about a year. I started on Teon, and you couldn't siege the first few months. And indeed, there was no point to it with low levels, which actually confirms the fact that there was little else to do than level and do some trivial quests when the game came out.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Um, if you started on Teon then you could siege the first day you played the game. Sieges were offline for 1 month when the game started. Teon came afterwards. I really don't think you know what you are talking about.
There should be little to do at low levels. High end content is where a game should be focused. Poor high end content results in lack of player rentention and you get the WoW effect. A lot of people who power level and then quit b/c there is nothing else to do.
Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
No, but you rant about the bugs in other games in the Lineage forum, without mentioning L2.
Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
And I still think the game is marginal when it comes to the amount of subscribers outside Asia. That was what this thread was about; it only went off topic quite a bit. Please don't put things out of context. As for the free expansions: it's NCSoft's business model with this game to release a bareboned game, and then develop the game while they have paying customers. Less financial risks business wise that way. If the game turns out to be not so popular, they pull out the plug. If it's popular, they continue with development.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by SantaClaws48 Um, if you started on Teon then you could siege the first day you played the game. Sieges were offline for 1 month when the game started. Teon came afterwards. I really don't think you know what you are talking about.
There should be little to do at low levels. High end content is where a game should be focused. Poor high end content results in lack of player rentention and you get the WoW effect. A lot of people who power level and then quit b/c there is nothing else to do.
No you couldn't. Several clans (Pretorians, GD, BP to name a few) were waiting back then to finally be able to sign up. You obviously didn't play on Teon.
I quit because there was little to do at high level either. Same grind, and some PvP with tons of drama. I don't like drama when I play games, and that's a personal view of things. If people like it (like my boyfriend), than all the power to them. Each to their own.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
No, but you rant about the bugs in other games in the Lineage forum, without mentioning L2.
Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
And I still think the game is marginal when it comes to the amount of subscribers outside Asia. That was what this thread was about; it only went off topic quite a bit. Please don't put things out of context. As for the free expansions: it's NCSoft's business model with this game to release a bareboned game, and then develop the game while they have paying customers. Less financial risks business wise that way. If the game turns out to be not so popular, they pull out the plug. If it's popular, they continue with development.
I didn't mention any "bugs" from any other games. I mentioned farmers from other games. So you are taking that out of "context".
I fact I never once mention "bugs" in any post. I usually "rant" on about farmers.
I doubt it. The game has been out for quite a long time, and the subscriber base isn't that big outside Asia. In fact, it's quite a marginal title. I really don't see how all of a sudden massive amounts of people are going to play this game.
I'm not sure about whether your statement was directed to the fact it was marginal over the amount of subs or was marginal and wouldn't bring a large amount of subs. Sorry if I misunderstood it is a bit unclear You are correct when you say it is a marginal North American / U.S. release but thats not my problem, thats the devs and marketing dept's problem.
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
The game has always worked and was stable. The quality was there at launch and it is there now. (more-so) The same can NOT be said for many U.S. big named titles. SWG, EQII, Horizons (which was a massively hyped game at launch) and whatever else I listed eariler.
You haven't met me head on with that issue, you are dodging which clearly demonstates you know that to some extent you know its true also.
Another poster here even gave a dollar breakdown of EQII cost to just get all the expansions to play. Do you play EQII? Are you enjoying the crafting revamp and the crashing economy? An economy that is literally drowning in both crafted items now and drops? By the way, thats not a "bug", its working as intended lol. My station account ends on the 28th if you doubt I know what Im talking about, I will meet you ingame and show you but I think with your experience in SWG, you know its not a lie. By the way, how do you like SWG now- a- days???? Those have been some great quality revamps, don't you think????
Also, RFO is an Asian game and it is a piece of crap to.
It doesn't matter anyway. You don't like the game, I'm leaving it at that.
EDIT
Look, Im not all pro-L2 and Asian games are great. Because they aren't. But come on, someone put out a decent game that works and will not get "revamped" every 6 months or looks like the "Bugs Bunny & Roadrunner Show". I'm sick of paying for dev teams to "change their minds" and rip apart the game I was just playing. Most of the time the changes are for the worse. (Im not talking about nerfs either) And then need to pay for half a dozen crappy expansions that really just raise the level cap. It would be nice also if we could get away from grind and kill task but honestly I think its to much at ask of our designers to go out on a limb and try something new....
But they did i guess, look at whats happening with Auto Assault. From all the reviews I've read (I have no first hand knowledge) its a solid title with decent reviews. The gamers are not going for it. I guess we need to stick with "Adventures in Generic Fantasy World 73957!!!!".
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
My beef with it is (or should I say 'was' since I quit some months ago) that I had to pay a monthly fee to get new game mechanics, which I thought should have been in there in the first place. So it DID cost me money, especially since they release the Chronicles not too often. They stretched that business model just way too far for me. To me, diversity is what keeps me playing. And L2 just has too little of that for me. Neither has any other game on the market at the moment, imo. That's exactly why I am visiting this site. In the hope I will find a decent and diverse game to play.
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Originally posted by Rayana Originally posted by Torak
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
My beef with it is (or should I say 'was' since I quit some months ago) that I had to pay a monthly fee to get new game mechanics, which I thought should have been in there in the first place. So it DID cost me money, especially since they release the Chronicles not too often. They stretched that business model just way too far for me. To me, diversity is what keeps me playing. And L2 just has too little of that for me. Neither has any other game on the market at the moment, imo. That's exactly why I am visiting this site. In the hope I will find a decent and diverse game to play.
I agree with you on the deversity. L2's grind is pretty repetetive. Go here and grind go there and grind.
Personally I think it focuses to much on the leveling. If there was more to the crafting like custom cloths a housing system. Some way to bring it to a more personal level. Something to do beside grind like a trained monkey L2 takes itself way to seriously.
Thats a problem with all MMO's in general though. EQII was really no better whatso ever although it a much greater deversity in systems and features it was just outright dull to play.
My main issue with MMO's is the complete lack of creativity in the "adventuring path" design.
I log in the new new Ryzom free trial - "Hi, welcome to Ryzom, now go kill 10 dogthings"
WoW - Hi, welcome to world of warcraft, now go kill 10 wolves
EQII - Hi, welcome to EQII now go kill 5 goblin things
L2 - Hi, welcome to L2 now go kill 50 wolves (50????, yikes)
SWG- Hi welcome to SWG now go kill 10 womprats
Horizons - Hi, welcome to Horizons now go kill 10 of whatever............
LoL, lord I can ramble, forgive...its earily and I'm working on my first cup of coffee..........
See where I'm going with this? Its all the same crap so far. FFXI is about the only MMO I ever played that didn't set me right out to kill 5 or 10 of anything.
One day maybe someone will release a game that provides a bit more imagination
Comments
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Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
..hax..
The game isn't marginal.....its us North American players are marginal. They all think its to hard and b^%ch endlessly about the bots, the economy and the grind like little fricking sissies like no other game has them.
They all want WoW style gameplay where you can basically zombie out and hit cap in a semi conscience state within a few days and have all the best gear within a few weeks. Then grind twice as hard then we ever will at raiding and safe little PvP zones, where there is no danger whatso ever, for honor that constantly slides back like a hamster wheel and they like it better.
PvP that you don't even need to pay attention to, its so damn easy and scripted and safe. People actually join groups and then "hide" or go AFK and soak up the honor points everyone else is raking up. Its pathetic. (I made Alliance Capt without much effort at all) Its all about getting the uber gear just like L2.
And don't get me started on Farmers in other games, you are naive if you think L2 is the only game with them. For every farmer in L2 there are hundreds in WoW. Farmers that will go out of their way to mess up your play just to get you out of "their" area.
Before WoW it wasn't EQ or DAoC or AC or any North American game that was top dog, it was L1 / L2 and FFXI Worldwide. Sony shut down EQII and SWG in Asia because they spotted it for the crap it was.
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
(sorry that all slipped
maybe Im wrong, most WoW players are Asian anyway lol)
You're love for L2 and honesty always makes me wanna reactivate.
Would you say it's too late for someone to start fresh in L2? If i reactivated i'd want to start fresh on a a new server probably.
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Well, it can still be challenging. It is easier to go from 1-20 and I hear 20-40 is easier. However, my main is 74 and I get .01% per kill. So, it is "easier" but only compared to what has gone before in the game.
And an interesting thing to note, Mystrial (gm) indicated, on a thread asking about server transfers (which have never been implemented) that though server transfers are not in the works they are working on other options for their servers.
So that should be interesting.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
Granted there are some bugs but all mmo's have them. What huge bugs are in existance right now?
Sieges were on at the start of chronicle 1, which was a month after launch. I dont' know what you are talking about that sieges were not switched on for quite a while. At that point in the game it didn't matter anyways because only 1% of the population could reach upper 40's or lower 50's by the end of the first month. There was no way you could take a castle in the first month even if they had sieges activated.
There are 12 pre-planned chronicles. Each one is a set expansion. I seriously don't think you even play this game or you obviously don't know much about it.
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
LoL, the chronicles are free. You are comparing apples and oranges. The players knew up front about the 12 chronicles. You can not seriously compare the chronicles to games like SWG and EQ and EQII are you????? All three of those games put out expansions and changes YOU THE PLAYER need to pay for. Hardly even close to the dollar value of L2.
SWG - you want space combat, you are paying extra. You want more high level content, you are paying extra. On top of it, the game has been so radically altered (3 times) that its not even close to the same game it was at launch. Its a P.O.S. You go ahead and try to convince me that SWG is a solid quality game. If there is one game out there I want to love its SWG. But every time I turn the damn thing on, they fricking change the entire core mechanic of the game. (see the SWG forums for this whole arguement, its to long to get into here)
EQII - you want the new achievment points, you pay extra. You want new content, you pay extra. On top of it, EQII has to be the blandest generic fantasy world ever made. I just rapped up playing this hidiously dull game. You can not promise me that SOE will not charge me the next time they change a mechanic. You can not because they will as they have in every game in every expansion they have released
EQ - I don't even know where to start there are so many expansions and things you need to pay extra for.
In some cases its alterations to the core mechanics that you must pay extra for. Nope sorry, you failed to convince me.
All I need to do is keep pointing to SWG, EQII, D&DO, RFO, Horizons, and SoR. All games released to early had issues and in ALL of them STILL issues. STILL revamps, STILL more expansions charging for changes and content that could be free. You can not tell me that EQII Kingdom of Sky has a better value then C4. Sorry it doesn't. It changes the core character developement and raises the level cap and charges YOU the player, money to have it.
D&DO is so massively bare boned and incomplete trash, if you had played it, I know you wouldn't have said this
I'm sure there will be an "upgrade" because the game bombed and its a piece of crap and I'm sure YOU the player will need to pay for it.
Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
Our North American designed games have promise but we execute like sh*t. Our quality is for sh*t. We have one (1) polished, solid game. ONE. Even that one plans to stick it to the player by charging extra for core changes. Level cap raised, new races.
YOU the player should NOT have to pay for level cap raises. You should not have to pay for alterations to the core mechanics. OK, content and new ideas and features, I can live with that. But to charge me extra money so I can continue to advance my charcter is WRONG.
L2 has had level cap raises. Not one time did the player need to pay for it. L2 has added 4 chronicles worth of content each equal in size or greater then any EQ I or II expansion....for free. The core mechanics of L2 are still intact from release. It has NOT been radically altered. L2 and FFXI have continued to enhance and refine while most other games rip themselves apart and try to reinvent themselves every 6 months. Yes there are tweaks and nerfs but there always are and AT NO EXPENSE TO YOU THE PLAYER. So go ahead and keep feeding these companies your good hard earned money for crap incomplete games and then happily shell out cash for changes and alterations that they do.
All you are saying is that you don't like the game. Thats cool
. Its a hard game and not for everyone.
EDIT
And don't give that trival content crap. Like any MMO has engaging dynamic content. Please. Its all kill task. WoW - simplistic trival kill task. EQII - the master of simplistic kill task. Yes you to can have up to 50 mind numbing kill task to keep track of or delievery if you like. SWG, go kill 10 ____ and return for your reward. Shall I continue? L2's content is IDENTICLE to every other game out there. Mindless Kill task.
The only MMO's that even came close to RPG story like content that engages you are FFXI and GW (as much as I hate GW's community, it does has a decent plot, to bad its so scripted)
I'm glad the Korean developers have never heard of the godawfull word: Expansion.
I recently bought Everquest 2: Kingdom of sky and I already regret it.
because its such a bad game? No. in fact, I think its a pretty fun game.
but besides a nice monthly fee of 15$ a month, I also get to pay for:
3 so called "adventure packs" which cost another 21$ in total
another expansion for 30$
and by the end of the year, I have to pay ANOTHER 30$ for ANOTHER expansion
and If I played Everquest 2 before the expansions went live, then I also had to pay for the normal game.
on a row:
Everquest 2, 50$
first exp: 30$
2nd exp: 30$
3rd Exp: 30$
all 3 adv packs: 21$
Total: 141$ Just for the client. this is what a player who played Everquest 2 since release will have paid at the end of this year, when the 3rd expansion pack arrives. and with all this he still can't play, because he also has to pay a monthly fee. its rediculous I have to pay this much just to play the entire game.
and a Lineage 2 player? (or any person who plays Korean MMO's)
they paid 50$ and just the normal fee.
and to be honnest, altough both games are very diffrent from each other, I don't see much diffrence in quality.
why would it be too late?
I can recommend servers, go to Lionna or Bartz. Theyre very good. I re-activated a couple weeks ago. I had 2 toons which played in C1-C2. Both were 30, and 35. I decided to park them (and yes, twink my newbies with their adena and gear) and re-roll
If you start on a new server, your first character you play to level 6 becomes your novice. He can get free buffs, soulshots (for completing quests etc.) and trade in N-grade gear for better. Since I twinked, I didnt take advantage of this but the list of buffs alone would be very nice.
I see new players in starter cities all the time. The only problem is selling N-grade gear. Its almost impossible since new players just trade up, and other players are already top geared since theyre playing alts. Not until you hit 20 will you really be able to participate in the market and selling your gear to other players in Dion. Unlike how it was when I played it, hitting 20 takes a matter of days depending on how/where you play. Its nothing like it used to be.
To make this short, no its not too late. However, yer not gonna max level in 2 months to do raids. Theres a sense of accomplishment with this game that lacks in other games that you always hear people complain about "I maxed to 60 in 3 months and got bored of raiding for gear". I will say, if anyone feels they need to be top level to compete in this game...thats a very false assumption. This game is very competetive and fun through all the levels.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Granted there are some bugs but all mmo's have them. What huge bugs are in existance right now?
Sieges were on at the start of chronicle 1, which was a month after launch. I dont' know what you are talking about that sieges were not switched on for quite a while. At that point in the game it didn't matter anyways because only 1% of the population could reach upper 40's or lower 50's by the end of the first month. There was no way you could take a castle in the first month even if they had sieges activated.
There are 12 pre-planned chronicles. Each one is a set expansion. I seriously don't think you even play this game or you obviously don't know much about it.
Played it for about a year. I started on Teon, and you couldn't siege the first few months. And indeed, there was no point to it with low levels, which actually confirms the fact that there was little else to do than level and do some trivial quests when the game came out.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
There should be little to do at low levels. High end content is where a game should be focused. Poor high end content results in lack of player rentention and you get the WoW effect. A lot of people who power level and then quit b/c there is nothing else to do.
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
No, but you rant about the bugs in other games in the Lineage forum, without mentioning L2.Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
And I still think the game is marginal when it comes to the amount of subscribers outside Asia. That was what this thread was about; it only went off topic quite a bit. Please don't put things out of context.As for the free expansions: it's NCSoft's business model with this game to release a bareboned game, and then develop the game while they have paying customers. Less financial risks business wise that way. If the game turns out to be not so popular, they pull out the plug. If it's popular, they continue with development.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
I quit because there was little to do at high level either. Same grind, and some PvP with tons of drama. I don't like drama when I play games, and that's a personal view of things. If people like it (like my boyfriend), than all the power to them. Each to their own.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
Face the facts, U.S. made games are the "marginal" games. WoW is the only one to pull it together. Not one since has either. The primary difference between U.S. games and Asian games isn't the stellar gameplay but the fact that they are f*&^ing COMPLETE and WORK at launch. Our devs throw the game out the door half finished and buggy and expect US the players to deal with it until they get around to finishing/fixing it a year or two later. AND WE PUT UP WITH IT!!!! Look at D&DO, Horizons, EQII or SWG and tell me Im wrong.
I'm sorry to say, but Lineage isn't exactly bug free either...And I hardly can call it complete when they stretch the game over god-knows-how-many Chronicles to expand the longevity of the game artificially. I started playing Lineage in Chronicle 1, and it was the most unfinished, bareboned game I had ever played. It was nothing but a vast stretch of land with nothing to do but trivial quests and killing mobs. Not even the sieges were 'switched on' for quite a while.
No game is bug free, I never said L2 was.
No, but you rant about the bugs in other games in the Lineage forum, without mentioning L2.Seiges, ok so you didn't get seiges the first month of the game. Your arguement that the game is marginal is weak at best. (you are attacking L2 but not looking at what the comparisons are) Whether you like how it is executed is another story. The fact is, the game is and was always complete. More is added but at NO COST to the player.
And I still think the game is marginal when it comes to the amount of subscribers outside Asia. That was what this thread was about; it only went off topic quite a bit. Please don't put things out of context.As for the free expansions: it's NCSoft's business model with this game to release a bareboned game, and then develop the game while they have paying customers. Less financial risks business wise that way. If the game turns out to be not so popular, they pull out the plug. If it's popular, they continue with development.
I didn't mention any "bugs" from any other games. I mentioned farmers from other games. So you are taking that out of "context".
I fact I never once mention "bugs" in any post. I usually "rant" on about farmers.
I doubt it. The game has been out for quite a long time, and the subscriber base isn't that big outside Asia. In fact, it's quite a marginal title. I really don't see how all of a sudden massive amounts of people are going to play this game.
I'm not sure about whether your statement was directed to the fact it was marginal over the amount of subs or was marginal and wouldn't bring a large amount of subs. Sorry if I misunderstood it is a bit unclear
You are correct when you say it is a marginal North American / U.S. release but thats not my problem, thats the devs and marketing dept's problem.
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
The game has always worked and was stable. The quality was there at launch and it is there now. (more-so) The same can NOT be said for many U.S. big named titles. SWG, EQII, Horizons (which was a massively hyped game at launch) and whatever else I listed eariler.
You haven't met me head on with that issue, you are dodging which clearly demonstates you know that to some extent you know its true also.
Another poster here even gave a dollar breakdown of EQII cost to just get all the expansions to play. Do you play EQII? Are you enjoying the crafting revamp and the crashing economy? An economy that is literally drowning in both crafted items now and drops? By the way, thats not a "bug", its working as intended lol. My station account ends on the 28th if you doubt I know what Im talking about, I will meet you ingame and show you but I think with your experience in SWG, you know its not a lie. By the way, how do you like SWG now- a- days???? Those have been some great quality revamps, don't you think????
Also, RFO is an Asian game and it is a piece of crap to.
It doesn't matter anyway. You don't like the game, I'm leaving it at that.
EDIT
Look, Im not all pro-L2 and Asian games are great. Because they aren't. But come on, someone put out a decent game that works and will not get "revamped" every 6 months or looks like the "Bugs Bunny & Roadrunner Show". I'm sick of paying for dev teams to "change their minds" and rip apart the game I was just playing. Most of the time the changes are for the worse. (Im not talking about nerfs either) And then need to pay for half a dozen crappy expansions that really just raise the level cap. It would be nice also if we could get away from grind and kill task but honestly I think its to much at ask of our designers to go out on a limb and try something new....
But they did i guess, look at whats happening with Auto Assault. From all the reviews I've read (I have no first hand knowledge) its a solid title with decent reviews. The gamers are not going for it. I guess we need to stick with "Adventures in Generic Fantasy World 73957!!!!".
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
My beef with it is (or should I say 'was' since I quit some months ago) that I had to pay a monthly fee to get new game mechanics, which I thought should have been in there in the first place. So it DID cost me money, especially since they release the Chronicles not too often. They stretched that business model just way too far for me. To me, diversity is what keeps me playing. And L2 just has too little of that for me. Neither has any other game on the market at the moment, imo. That's exactly why I am visiting this site. In the hope I will find a decent and diverse game to play.
------------------------------------------------
Playing: Final Fantasy Online: ARR, Destiny
Most memorable games for me: UO, GW1, LoTRO
As far as the business model well..............I still don't understand what the beef is with it. I guess you prefer paying for your upgrades like level cap increases and skill point mechanic changes? I think you and me are speaking different languages here. L2 expansions cost the subscribers zero and are on par with other titles in quality and quantity.
My beef with it is (or should I say 'was' since I quit some months ago) that I had to pay a monthly fee to get new game mechanics, which I thought should have been in there in the first place. So it DID cost me money, especially since they release the Chronicles not too often. They stretched that business model just way too far for me. To me, diversity is what keeps me playing. And L2 just has too little of that for me. Neither has any other game on the market at the moment, imo. That's exactly why I am visiting this site. In the hope I will find a decent and diverse game to play.
I agree with you on the deversity. L2's grind is pretty repetetive. Go here and grind go there and grind.
Personally I think it focuses to much on the leveling. If there was more to the crafting like custom cloths a housing system. Some way to bring it to a more personal level. Something to do beside grind like a trained monkey
L2 takes itself way to seriously.
Thats a problem with all MMO's in general though. EQII was really no better whatso ever although it a much greater deversity in systems and features it was just outright dull to play.
My main issue with MMO's is the complete lack of creativity in the "adventuring path" design.
I log in the new new Ryzom free trial - "Hi, welcome to Ryzom, now go kill 10 dogthings"
WoW - Hi, welcome to world of warcraft, now go kill 10 wolves
EQII - Hi, welcome to EQII now go kill 5 goblin things
L2 - Hi, welcome to L2 now go kill 50 wolves (50????, yikes)
SWG- Hi welcome to SWG now go kill 10 womprats
Horizons - Hi, welcome to Horizons now go kill 10 of whatever............
LoL, lord I can ramble, forgive...its earily and I'm working on my first cup of coffee..........
See where I'm going with this? Its all the same crap so far. FFXI is about the only MMO I ever played that didn't set me right out to kill 5 or 10 of anything.
One day maybe someone will release a game that provides a bit more imagination