Originally posted by almagill Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Obraik Bombed at E3? Hardly, they achieved what they set out to do, which was to show this new event...
Don't you think this side-steps the point, Obraik? The point is that a "player event" is not an E3-worthy announcement, not something that should be "everything" to be announced for a major title like "Star Wars: Galaxies." In the face of so many other games progressing, SOE/LA's sole announcement of a single "player event" was just pathetic (whether you're capable of admitting it or not). There are so many people who will see this as just a ploy to have kept subscriptions going for a little longer, giving people hope that they were really going to do something to "shake up" the game as you all know it. I think all they succeeded in shaking up is the faith of a few more subscribers.
This is the most coverage SWG has had at E3 since they were planning JTL. SWG was at E3 because SOE and LA were. They probably thought they were going to E3 to show off their new games, they might as well bring SWG along too to show it off in the background. It can't hurt...and it didn't.
Yes, it did hurt, Obraik. It took valuable dev time away from the fixing and polishing exercise that's been going on since November. That's the "6 months and things will be golden - oh, hold on, could we have another 6 months and we're hoping to make it better" exercise.
It hurt because it has delayed code going out to test for the next expansion. By definition that's a delay, a hold up, an unplanned interuption. What's worse is that AT THE BEGINNING of the week they were promising "without further delay". Then because 'most' of the devs were up at E3 the customers were told 'ah hell, you can wait..."
They said they hoped to have it on TC by the end of the week. Wasn't definate. A weekend delay won't be too big of a deal.
It also hurt because the perception of SWG in various games websites is that SWG was either a no show or a non-event at E3.
Really? Most of the main gaming sites have an article about SWG being there.
Older games were getting expansions launched. E3 is about what's new, what's evolving, what's up and coming. SWG even being there was a farce if they had no intention of doing much more than publicising an ingame event and a bit of a patch...
Last year wasn't any different. They showed off ROTW, which had already been Live for nearly 3 weeks by the time E3 happened.
Now we can rant all we want about it out here. We can comment, carefully, onthe official boards, but what matters is that over the next few weeks the game media will be trawling thru the newsfeeds and aggregate sites and, if they find any reference to SWG at all it's either old old old E3 stuff or a few references to this years farago.
And THAT is what is going to hurt. Six months after NGE hit the game media were still printing articles that referred to it as 'having just happened'. It takes a ridiculously long time for news to get from word of mouth and digital media and into the print media. And if, in six months time, SWG is being referred to as 'a dead duck', a non event, stale, tired, lacking... then that is going to hurt.
I've read two articles lately in magazines about SWG (an Australian and a UK mag) which were pretty supportive of SWG.
Originally posted by Obraik ...The game is nearly 3 years old, there's no way it can possibly compete for news titles with the likes of the Wii which are new and fresh.
I could clearly envision even Smedley and Torres themselves giving you an argument there, Obraik. It would go something like this: "The NGE changed the face of the 'Star Wars: Galaxies' experience so much that it could really be considered an entirely new MMO." For an entirely new MMO that's only 6 months old, you'd think they'd be able to compete for news with other, contemparay titles with something more than just a "player event".
It's an old game with a new revamp. Maybe Smedley and Torres would say something like that, but at the end of the day it's still an old game. If you haven't played the game before and have only seen it at something like an E3 booth, it doesn't look any different to what it did 3 years ago.
Exactly, so why take your tired old grandmother along to an acid house rave with the cool young kids? She's going to stand out like a wee scented lavender rinsed throwback to the Dark Ages.
Why not? They're going there anyway, there was a spare seat for grandma so why can't she sit in it?
For whatever reason, SOE appears to be no longer behind this title. They are allocating it minimum resources, and I personally believe the lackluster showing at E3 concerning SWG is a shining example of that policy. If what they announced at E3 excites you, and you feel it was worth waiting for, then you're exactly the target audience they are looking for. The reason we will never agree on any of these topics is just because the rest of us have higher standards.
As I said earlier, this is the most coverage SWG has had at E3 since JTL was being made. I knew all along that this was what was being showen (they had posted that many times on the forums), it's hard to be dissapointed when you already know what to expect
Can you give links to the posts on the forums that said "at E3 we're showcasing an ingame event" as opposed to the ones that just mumbled something vague about "it's going to be big news" "It'll go with a bang" "It's been a massive project getting everything ready for E3 and but it's been well worth it"?? I seem to have missed those. As did the people who just about exploded when Helios made his "But I thought everyone knew what it was" joke last week.
As I said ^ up there ^ E3 is THE trade event. It's where you go to do your BIG launch. It's where SWG was announced. It's where JtL was showcased. It's where ToOW was showcased. It's not where you go if all you've got to show is a bit of a patch and an ingame event.
This is the first new thing for SWG that's been showen before it went live since JTL. Last E3 they showed of ROTW, and as I mentioned above, it had already been live for nearly 3 weeks when E3 had hit and many gaming sites had already reviewed it. This event was completely new for E3 and had not been seen before.
What's worse than them having so little to take to the party (and it taking so many of them to do it) is that they've totally fumbled the ball as far as media has gone and as far as 'playing' their customers has gone.
Where's the dev blog? The daily update of what a great and cool and fantastic time they're all having? Come on, it's not that hard. A paragraph a day, a couple of photoblog campics and bang it on a blog site? There's keen amateurs doing it all the time. What about some screen shots. Some pre-release publicity / fanfic story that supports the whole 'powerpack in back pack' idea? They can't say they didn't have time to prepare. After all, way back when Smed did his big Day Of Posting in March, they had already been working on the E3 stuff for ages. (Two months plus is also a bit of a heavy time investment for something that ends up hailed as a non-event)
TH said they wanted to give time for the fansites to put up the stuff. Makes sense, what's the point on having exclusive E3 stuff if it's going to be covered in the usual means?
Most of this is about presentation. Building (right) expectation, keeping the fans interested and positively enthused. Instead, once again, they seem to have managed to antagonise everyone and even if they were to turn round tomorrow and slap the official video on the forums it'd be greeted with "Too little too late" "Oh is this ALL??"
As I've mentioned most people I've run into in game and asked there thoughts on the Restuss thing were pretty posiviely enthused and looking forward to more details popping up. Having people on the edge of their seat isn't exactly a bad thing...
Every project they have ever touched. One can only look at EQ2 as a perfect example. The Everquest franchise was the most popular MMORPG of all time when it was being handled by VERENT inc. It is sad when you see almost everyone leaving by the hundreds. I have a friend who used to love EQ2 and was a EQ vet of the original series. He says, he had over 50 friends on his list. Now no one on his list is in the game. Most of his guild WAS GOING TO RELOCATE TO VANGUARD...BUT, SOE has assumed rights to that, now doomed project.
Take comfort, SOE will soon be out of the MMO business. They will not be able to sustain the massive loss of revenue. They are considered a Joke in the MMO community and have no real player base.
Originally posted by LAW! SOE has broken.... Every project they have ever touched. One can only look at EQ2 as a perfect example. The Everquest franchise was the most popular MMORPG of all time when it was being handled by VERENT inc. It is sad when you see almost everyone leaving by the hundreds. I have a friend who used to love EQ2 and was a EQ vet of the original series. He says, he had over 50 friends on his list. Now no one on his list is in the game. Most of his guild WAS GOING TO RELOCATE TO VANGUARD...BUT, SOE has assumed rights to that, now doomed project. Take comfort, SOE will soon be out of the MMO business. They will not be able to sustain the massive loss of revenue. They are considered a Joke in the MMO community and have no real player base. Lets hope SWG 2 COMES ONE DAY!
Elnator needs to pop into this thread and do the usual Verent = SOE post. He does it best
yup an even worse case of frothy poop, man its coming out like frosting now, like frothy frosting, kinda like the consistncy of a hotdog smoothie, i dont enjoy swg as i had, but i do enjoy eq2 for the love of god keep swg's developers away from eq2.
Bumping this thread with an editorial from bit-tech, to back up some of the stuff people have been saying in the thread. What can I say, bit-tech owns. Anyway, they claim that Sony had the weakest presence at E3:
Sony perhaps had the weakest show of the three, and its defensive stance in interviews after the event contribute to that line of thinking. Phil Harrison, the English face of the console, tried to downplay the importance of the show in an interview, suggesting that the show alone did not dictate the future direction of gaming. Ken Kutaragi, grandfather of the PlayStation, went on a price offensive, saying that not only was the price comparable with the price of the original uber-successful PlayStation, but that it possibly wasn't even expensive enough.
Sony lacked a single stand-out title to be the poster-boy for its next-gen effort. Wii had signature games in spades, with Zelda obviously the most popular. I mean, how do you trump Zelda? Sony certainly couldn't. The trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4 certainly looked spectacular and involving, but it was all pre-rendered FMV. That does not a good showing make. On the show floor, there was nothing that we hadn't seen already on the Xbox 360. The racing games and Japanese action / RPG titles looked utterly generic and Warhawk, the only game to make use of the PS3's motion sensing controller, was bland, if kind of cool. Yes, the PS3 has loads of great technology and yes, it has Blu-Ray and, yes, this generation is really Sony's fight to lose, given the success of the PlayStation 2. But, for Sony, the lack of AAA games six months before launch must be worrying.
So, yeah, Sony gaming as a whole is more or less business as usual -- a bunch of guys with no concept of what a good game is all about, more or less mimicing original ideas from other game companies. They didn't even take E3 seriously, much to their misfortune.
It gets worse -- in the next paragraph, they talk about the PC games.
All of which is to entirely miss out on the amazing PC games on show. Obviously, one of the biggest showings was the Burning Crusade expansion for World of Warcraft. This is the first extension to the world's most popular online game, and it looks like Blizzard have got it right, based on fan feedback at the show. The WoW behemoth shows no signs of slowing down.
And not one mention of Star Wars Galaxies, despite their big earth-shattering announcement.
GG.
[On a side note, they liked Quake Wars... Muahahaha]
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by almagill
Can you give links to the posts on the forums that said "at E3 we're showcasing an ingame event" as opposed to the ones that just mumbled something vague about "it's going to be big news" "It'll go with a bang" "It's been a massive project getting everything ready for E3 and but it's been well worth it"?? I seem to have missed those. As did the people who just about exploded when Helios made his "But I thought everyone knew what it was" joke last week. http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=635039&query.id=0#M635039
Fair cop guv. What's worse is I dredged through that damn thread last night looking for something and missed that particular reply. And yep, you're right, they did say pretty much what was going to be at E3 etc.
Though you've got to admit it probably could have done with somebody with a red name repeating it a few times in more accessible places (as opposed to buried in a heavily nested reply in the middle of possibly the longest thread evah on the boards )
As I said ^ up there ^ E3 is THE trade event. It's where you go to do your BIG launch. It's where SWG was announced. It's where JtL was showcased. It's where ToOW was showcased. It's not where you go if all you've got to show is a bit of a patch and an ingame event. This is the first new thing for SWG that's been showen before it went live since JTL. Last E3 they showed of ROTW, and as I mentioned above, it had already been live for nearly 3 weeks when E3 had hit and many gaming sites had already reviewed it. This event was completely new for E3 and had not been seen before.
Can't argue with you on that, but I'm still sticking to the 'it was a bit lacklustre, especially compared to what the proper games companies were showcasing'.
What's worse than them having so little to take to the party (and it taking so many of them to do it) is that they've totally fumbled the ball as far as media has gone and as far as 'playing' their customers has gone.
Where's the dev blog? The daily update of what a great and cool and fantastic time they're all having? Come on, it's not that hard. A paragraph a day, a couple of photoblog campics and bang it on a blog site? There's keen amateurs doing it all the time. What about some screen shots. Some pre-release publicity / fanfic story that supports the whole 'powerpack in back pack' idea? They can't say they didn't have time to prepare. After all, way back when Smed did his big Day Of Posting in March, they had already been working on the E3 stuff for ages. (Two months plus is also a bit of a heavy time investment for something that ends up hailed as a non-event) TH said they wanted to give time for the fansites to put up the stuff. Makes sense, what's the point on having exclusive E3 stuff if it's going to be covered in the usual means?
News management? Keeping control of your brand image? Leaving it to the fansites and the passionate amateurs seems to be resulting in random flamefests all over the place and is reinforcing the perception that the dev team have 'lost the plot'.
Most of this is about presentation. Building (right) expectation, keeping the fans interested and positively enthused. Instead, once again, they seem to have managed to antagonise everyone and even if they were to turn round tomorrow and slap the official video on the forums it'd be greeted with "Too little too late" "Oh is this ALL??" As I've mentioned most people I've run into in game and asked there thoughts on the Restuss thing were pretty posiviely enthused and looking forward to more details popping up. Having people on the edge of their seat isn't exactly a bad thing...
Again, can't argue with that as that's your experience. On Bria over the weekend the people I asked about it largely said "what you talking about you can't blow up a city newb"... but that's Bria. Charming to the centre of it's twisted black heart.
Very badly handled all the way thru.
Hah! Can't argue with tha tpoint tho, heh
(btw, Ob... )
********************* So, you all sat in camps and that was fun? *********************
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by LAW! SOE has broken.... Every project they have ever touched. One can only look at EQ2 as a perfect example. The Everquest franchise was the most popular MMORPG of all time when it was being handled by VERENT inc. It is sad when you see almost everyone leaving by the hundreds. I have a friend who used to love EQ2 and was a EQ vet of the original series. He says, he had over 50 friends on his list. Now no one on his list is in the game. Most of his guild WAS GOING TO RELOCATE TO VANGUARD...BUT, SOE has assumed rights to that, now doomed project. Take comfort, SOE will soon be out of the MMO business. They will not be able to sustain the massive loss of revenue. They are considered a Joke in the MMO community and have no real player base. Lets hope SWG 2 COMES ONE DAY!
Elnator needs to pop into this thread and do the usual Verent = SOE post. He does it best
Verant is SOE.
If you care about looking f'ing intelligent go do the research on just how "Verant" became "Verant" and WHY they became "Verant". They were originally division 989 of SOE (989 was EQ's project number). Then they got spun off as "989 Studios" then they changed their name to "Verant" then once the game had paid it's debts SOE re-integrated the company back into SOE.
John Smedley HIRED Brad McQuaid specifically to MAKE EQ.
Qeynos was the first set of zones in the entire game to ever get developed for EQ during Closed Alpha.
Qeynos is: Sony EQ (Spelled Backwards)
As to the whole "E3" thing? Obra I have to point out:
For months LEC and SOE have been saying "We have big news for SWG that's going to completely change things around and we're going to announce it at E3" blah blah blah. Then at E3 we hear "in game event, players will have to stockpile equipment.... eventually unlock.... big explosion.... no more restus.... now have a battleground to fight in...
Um:
Battlegrounds were in the game years ago, they took em out because they were too damn clueless to figure out how to fix them (Not to mention nobody ever f'ing used them).
GCW is a joke
It'll take the current playerbase FOREVER to unlock phase 2 of that quest. And, as other's have pointed out, that strikes me as just a way to milk players for monthly fees for just a little longer to string them along... etc.
I'm not saying the event is a bad idea... .it's not... if it works the way they want it to it's a nice idea. But, as others have said... and EVENT is not worthy of an E3 announcement. Expansions, major code changes, etc... THAT is worthy of E3. SOE and LEC have been stringing players along with promises of some big announcement at E3... THAT is why people are mad.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Is it just me, or did Rogue_5 look very scared, maybe for keeping his job or that someone might come over while that video was rolling and say something that would blow his presentation out of the water LOL. To turn a phrase, he looked like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Then again maybe he was waiting for someone to walk past with a hand gun or something. I'm not suprised that whole crew over there doesn't wear bullet proof vests when they go to shows like that
The game is nearly 3 years old, there's no way it can possibly compete for news titles with the likes of the Wii which are new and fresh.
That didn't stop CCP (Eve is just over 3yrs old IIRC), they manage to get a decent number of headlines (on sites like this, as no MMO not even WOW can compete with a new console launch/preview)
I'm not flaming (or inviting flames) on either game just pointing out a hole in your argument.
You guys are such jerks. Just because you don't like the game, you want it to die - completely ignoring that there are people out there that do like it (someone disagreeing with your expertly thought out post-doctorate opinions? Imagine!!) and don't want it to die. You'd rather destroy it just because if you can't have what you want, nobody can. That's extremely selfish and childish. I've got a ten month old that's more mature than that.
Originally posted by Squidi You guys are such jerks. Just because you don't like the game, you want it to die - completely ignoring that there are people out there that do like it (someone disagreeing with your expertly thought out post-doctorate opinions? Imagine!!) and don't want it to die. You'd rather destroy it just because if you can't have what you want, nobody can. That's extremely selfish and childish. I've got a ten month old that's more mature than that.
Yup, the sooner it's dead the sooner Bioware can make a proper SW-MMORPG.
Originally posted by kaibigan34 YUKMOT!!!! Finally someone else from Kauri I know. I was buddies with Uben dude. You still playing SWG or you moved on like most of us?
Kai
Kai Yukmot quit the game a couple of months ago...he tried it out for 1 month and called it quits again. This is Edmonde Dantes of Myst...an old friend of Ubens...if you are still in contact with Uben tell him to get a hold of Yukmot and I at http://guild.magnumusmysterium.com ...we are going to try out Roma Victor and want to join up with Uben since he was praising this game along time ago...
Not many of the old Kauri Vets are playing...the ones that do don't play for long and the ones that claim to be Kauri Vets have only been around since CU...not many Pre-Cu Left...
We have enough Youth, How about a Fountain of Intelligence?
The presentation Star Wars Galaxies showed at E3 was pretty much par for the course as far as SWG's development team goes. Another lackluster offering that pales in comparison to any other game in the genre however the dev's pat themselves on the back and hype themselves up like they're a big deal. It's really... awkward by now.
I was not impressed with the presentation at all. I didn't know what it was because I don't really scan the forums for some off-shot quoted post by Smedley saying what it was. Obraik put a link up to that post like it was an official announcement that was advertised, and in the same breath said the forums weren't the majority of the voice behind the community. It seems like a contradiction of sorts to me.
I'm a man that bases statements off of opinions and reasoning, however I feel that by now I think it's a fact that Star Wars Galaxies has failed. They may not close their doors for a while yet, but the health of the game is far from satisfactory.
I wanted Star Wars Galaxies to succeed, but now I want it to close down and fail so that SOE learns a valuable lesson: Intellectul Properties don't guarantee revenue. I think it's pretty ridiculous that Smedley himself said he wasn't happy with the state of Star Wars Galaxies, and yet he still expected people to pay money for a product that isn't finished or up to the president's standards. They talk six month projections of game functions that should have been in the game two years ago like people are crazy to think they shouldn't have to pay for the game while that stuff develops.
SWG is a botched game that has let down on every single promise its ever made. Even the six month promise with the NGE fell through. How many more chances do they deserve before people pull their subscriptions and take their business elsewhere? If SOE can come through on all their promises about the NGE and the expertise system (That Friday Feature was a shallow skimover of the idea, by the way) then I'd consider coming back. But I'd be a pushover to pay for an unfinished game, and anyone who DOES pay monthly for that unfinished game is a pushover with exceedingly low standards.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Is it just me, or did Rogue_5 look very scared, maybe for keeping his job or that someone might come over while that video was rolling and say something that would blow his presentation out of the water LOL. To turn a phrase, he looked like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Then again maybe he was waiting for someone to walk past with a hand gun or something. I'm not suprised that whole crew over there doesn't wear bullet proof vests when they go to shows like that
Alright, alright.. while SOE bashing is fine, I'm starting to feel sorry for this poor guy. So let me give a little background as to your typical programmer/developer.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Ironman2000 Is it just me, or did Rogue_5 look very scared, maybe for keeping his job or that someone might come over while that video was rolling and say something that would blow his presentation out of the water LOL. To turn a phrase, he looked like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Then again maybe he was waiting for someone to walk past with a hand gun or something. I'm not suprised that whole crew over there doesn't wear bullet proof vests when they go to shows like that
Alright, alright.. while SOE bashing is fine, I'm starting to feel sorry for this poor guy. So let me give a little background as to your typical programmer/developer.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
xPaladin does indeed speak the truth in a general sense. We are introverted creatures who tend only to stick to our own kind. Placing us into a situation like Rogue_5's is always a mistake -- unless the audience is also software developers. The only time I've presented was at GDC, and it was a real kick because I knew the people I was presenting to were my kind.
If I were an SOE developer presenting to gamers, I would be in fear for my life.
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by Squidi You guys are such jerks. Just because you don't like the game, you want it to die - completely ignoring that there are people out there that do like it (someone disagreeing with your expertly thought out post-doctorate opinions? Imagine!!) and don't want it to die. You'd rather destroy it just because if you can't have what you want, nobody can. That's extremely selfish and childish. I've got a ten month old that's more mature than that.
Yup, the sooner it's dead the sooner Bioware can make a proper SW-MMORPG.
Well I can dream anyway.
Well I am old enough to know better and keep my mouth shut (when I can). If you folks only knew how us x-soe players felt about this company. Yeah, you personally havent been hit by the SOE virus, but I have on 3 of their games. So I have a right to voice my opinion about any game that SOE may develop.
I just hope it doesnt happen to you and goodluck with a piece of **** company.
Originally posted by Elnator Verant is SOE. If you care about looking f'ing intelligent go do the research on just how "Verant" became "Verant" and WHY they became "Verant". They were originally division 989 of SOE (989 was EQ's project number). Then they got spun off as "989 Studios" then they changed their name to "Verant" then once the game had paid it's debts SOE re-integrated the company back into SOE.
John Smedley HIRED Brad McQuaid specifically to MAKE EQ. Qeynos was the first set of zones in the entire game to ever get developed for EQ during Closed Alpha. Qeynos is: Sony EQ (Spelled Backwards)
As to the whole "E3" thing? Obra I have to point out: For months LEC and SOE have been saying "We have big news for SWG that's going to completely change things around and we're going to announce it at E3" blah blah blah. Then at E3 we hear "in game event, players will have to stockpile equipment.... eventually unlock.... big explosion.... no more restus.... now have a battleground to fight in...
Um:
Battlegrounds were in the game years ago, they took em out because they were too damn clueless to figure out how to fix them (Not to mention nobody ever f'ing used them). GCW is a joke It'll take the current playerbase FOREVER to unlock phase 2 of that quest. And, as other's have pointed out, that strikes me as just a way to milk players for monthly fees for just a little longer to string them along... etc. I'm not saying the event is a bad idea... .it's not... if it works the way they want it to it's a nice idea. But, as others have said... and EVENT is not worthy of an E3 announcement. Expansions, major code changes, etc... THAT is worthy of E3. SOE and LEC have been stringing players along with promises of some big announcement at E3... THAT is why people are mad.
Thanks for clearing up the Verant explanation, I would have done it but you do it much better
Originally posted by Squidi You guys are such jerks. Just because you don't like the game, you want it to die - completely ignoring that there are people out there that do like it (someone disagreeing with your expertly thought out post-doctorate opinions? Imagine!!) and don't want it to die. You'd rather destroy it just because if you can't have what you want, nobody can. That's extremely selfish and childish. I've got a ten month old that's more mature than that.
Correct, but $OE seem to be doing a fine job all on their own don't you think? Does he/she play SWG too?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Anyway, back to SWG. That's not true, ever since they've announced they've been doing something at E3, we've known that it was this thing.
That's dodging the point though. Yeah, they did make the announcement that it would be an event, but even so, it's still not E3 worthy. Not for the company that's been shaking up EQ2 for two years now (nobody foresaw PvP coming to EQ2 and making it into a great game). The event is even less E3 worthy because Blizzard had already stole all that thunder (and unfortunately divebombed it) with the very, very painfully similar AQ event. I mean, it's one thing to rip off a competitor's idea, but it's really bad to rip off a competitor's BAD idea.
The point being made in the post is that quite a lot of people -- such as the disillusioned vets you continue to flamebait -- are still waiting for SOE to make the magic announcement that will save the game. Honestly, all the hate is from a lot of Star Wars lovers who really want to play Star Wars online, but find its current state unacceptable. So large an amount, in fact, that the flamers outvoice the fans.
Sony could have at LEAST tried something truly special and unique, but the fact that they didn't reinforces the point many flamers try to make about the people running the SWG show -- they just don't care. Its obvious they're actually content to make what they can with what minimal investment is possible, and it really begs the question of how deep that logic is rooted (no, that's not a pun) into Sony.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
To be honest I wasn't expecting much, but they even fell short of those low expectations. I at the very least expected them to go into much greater detail on the new talent system or discuss some detailed plans for a class revamp, but instead its just some idiotic one time event thing that seems completely dated and silly. I mean...so what if they blow up Restuss? Its not like anyone goes there or even cares. Even this would seem better if they somehow rotated it like the old village in phases or something.
I am not sure when I had this Magellan moment, but reading this made me realize that these guys honestly have no clue what to do with this game. They fumble around more than a teenage boy in heat.
Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Ironman2000 Is it just me, or did Rogue_5 look very scared, maybe for keeping his job or that someone might come over while that video was rolling and say something that would blow his presentation out of the water LOL. To turn a phrase, he looked like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Then again maybe he was waiting for someone to walk past with a hand gun or something. I'm not suprised that whole crew over there doesn't wear bullet proof vests when they go to shows like that
Alright, alright.. while SOE bashing is fine, I'm starting to feel sorry for this poor guy. So let me give a little background as to your typical programmer/developer.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
Sure, I understand that, but in comparison, have you seen how Blackgard from EQ II looked when he was showing his presentation of EQ 2's expansion pack and how the guy from Sigil looked when they showed Vanguard and the character creation? They looked totally calm, cool, and collected, where as Rogue_5 looked like a deer in the headlights. I would have expected him to be more experienced at that sort of things in comparison with the other two I mentioned. I do feel for the guy, but he made the bed, hes gotta lay in it.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Ironman2000 Is it just me, or did Rogue_5 look very scared, maybe for keeping his job or that someone might come over while that video was rolling and say something that would blow his presentation out of the water LOL. To turn a phrase, he looked like a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Then again maybe he was waiting for someone to walk past with a hand gun or something. I'm not suprised that whole crew over there doesn't wear bullet proof vests when they go to shows like that
Alright, alright.. while SOE bashing is fine, I'm starting to feel sorry for this poor guy. So let me give a little background as to your typical programmer/developer.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
Sure, I understand that, but in comparison, have you seen how Blackgard from EQ II looked when he was showing his presentation of EQ 2's expansion pack and how the guy from Sigil looked when they showed Vanguard and the character creation? They looked totally calm, cool, and collected, where as Rogue_5 looked like a deer in the headlights. I would have expected him to be more experienced at that sort of things in comparison with the other two I mentioned. I do feel for the guy, but he made the bed, hes gotta lay in it. SOE / LA made the bed , he has to work in it . He is just like anyone else out there , You have to bring in the bread some how .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Ironman2000 Sure, I understand that, but in comparison, have you seen how Blackgard from EQ II looked when he was showing his presentation of EQ 2's expansion pack and how the guy from Sigil looked when they showed Vanguard and the character creation? They looked totally calm, cool, and collected, where as Rogue_5 looked like a deer in the headlights. I would have expected him to be more experienced at that sort of things in comparison with the other two I mentioned. I do feel for the guy, but he made the bed, hes gotta lay in it.
Blackguard I believe is the EQ2 equivilent of Thunderheart. Both of their roles is to communicate with the public, which is why Blackguard came across much better. Thunderheart should have been doing the same for SWG rather then Rogue_5
Comments
Don't you think this side-steps the point, Obraik? The point is that a "player event" is not an E3-worthy announcement, not something that should be "everything" to be announced for a major title like "Star Wars: Galaxies." In the face of so many other games progressing, SOE/LA's sole announcement of a single "player event" was just pathetic (whether you're capable of admitting it or not). There are so many people who will see this as just a ploy to have kept subscriptions going for a little longer, giving people hope that they were really going to do something to "shake up" the game as you all know it. I think all they succeeded in shaking up is the faith of a few more subscribers.
This is the most coverage SWG has had at E3 since they were planning JTL. SWG was at E3 because SOE and LA were. They probably thought they were going to E3 to show off their new games, they might as well bring SWG along too to show it off in the background. It can't hurt...and it didn't.
Yes, it did hurt, Obraik.
It took valuable dev time away from the fixing and polishing exercise that's been going on since November. That's the "6 months and things will be golden - oh, hold on, could we have another 6 months and we're hoping to make it better" exercise.
It hurt because it has delayed code going out to test for the next expansion. By definition that's a delay, a hold up, an unplanned interuption. What's worse is that AT THE BEGINNING of the week they were promising "without further delay". Then because 'most' of the devs were up at E3 the customers were told 'ah hell, you can wait..."
They said they hoped to have it on TC by the end of the week. Wasn't definate. A weekend delay won't be too big of a deal.
It also hurt because the perception of SWG in various games websites is that SWG was either a no show or a non-event at E3.
Really? Most of the main gaming sites have an article about SWG being there.
Older games were getting expansions launched. E3 is about what's new, what's evolving, what's up and coming. SWG even being there was a farce if they had no intention of doing much more than publicising an ingame event and a bit of a patch...
Last year wasn't any different. They showed off ROTW, which had already been Live for nearly 3 weeks by the time E3 happened.
Now we can rant all we want about it out here. We can comment, carefully, onthe official boards, but what matters is that over the next few weeks the game media will be trawling thru the newsfeeds and aggregate sites and, if they find any reference to SWG at all it's either old old old E3 stuff or a few references to this years farago.
And THAT is what is going to hurt. Six months after NGE hit the game media were still printing articles that referred to it as 'having just happened'. It takes a ridiculously long time for news to get from word of mouth and digital media and into the print media. And if, in six months time, SWG is being referred to as 'a dead duck', a non event, stale, tired, lacking... then that is going to hurt.
I've read two articles lately in magazines about SWG (an Australian and a UK mag) which were pretty supportive of SWG.
I could clearly envision even Smedley and Torres themselves giving you an argument there, Obraik. It would go something like this: "The NGE changed the face of the 'Star Wars: Galaxies' experience so much that it could really be considered an entirely new MMO." For an entirely new MMO that's only 6 months old, you'd think they'd be able to compete for news with other, contemparay titles with something more than just a "player event".
It's an old game with a new revamp. Maybe Smedley and Torres would say something like that, but at the end of the day it's still an old game. If you haven't played the game before and have only seen it at something like an E3 booth, it doesn't look any different to what it did 3 years ago.
Exactly, so why take your tired old grandmother along to an acid house rave with the cool young kids? She's going to stand out like a wee scented lavender rinsed throwback to the Dark Ages.
Why not? They're going there anyway, there was a spare seat for grandma so why can't she sit in it?
For whatever reason, SOE appears to be no longer behind this title. They are allocating it minimum resources, and I personally believe the lackluster showing at E3 concerning SWG is a shining example of that policy. If what they announced at E3 excites you, and you feel it was worth waiting for, then you're exactly the target audience they are looking for. The reason we will never agree on any of these topics is just because the rest of us have higher standards.
As I said earlier, this is the most coverage SWG has had at E3 since JTL was being made. I knew all along that this was what was being showen (they had posted that many times on the forums), it's hard to be dissapointed when you already know what to expect
Can you give links to the posts on the forums that said "at E3 we're showcasing an ingame event" as opposed to the ones that just mumbled something vague about "it's going to be big news" "It'll go with a bang" "It's been a massive project getting everything ready for E3 and but it's been well worth it"?? I seem to have missed those.
As did the people who just about exploded when Helios made his "But I thought everyone knew what it was" joke last week.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=635039&query.id=0#M635039
As I said ^ up there ^ E3 is THE trade event. It's where you go to do your BIG launch. It's where SWG was announced. It's where JtL was showcased. It's where ToOW was showcased. It's not where you go if all you've got to show is a bit of a patch and an ingame event.
This is the first new thing for SWG that's been showen before it went live since JTL. Last E3 they showed of ROTW, and as I mentioned above, it had already been live for nearly 3 weeks when E3 had hit and many gaming sites had already reviewed it. This event was completely new for E3 and had not been seen before.
What's worse than them having so little to take to the party (and it taking so many of them to do it) is that they've totally fumbled the ball as far as media has gone and as far as 'playing' their customers has gone.
Where's the dev blog? The daily update of what a great and cool and fantastic time they're all having? Come on, it's not that hard. A paragraph a day, a couple of photoblog campics and bang it on a blog site? There's keen amateurs doing it all the time.
What about some screen shots. Some pre-release publicity / fanfic story that supports the whole 'powerpack in back pack' idea?
They can't say they didn't have time to prepare. After all, way back when Smed did his big Day Of Posting in March, they had already been working on the E3 stuff for ages. (Two months plus is also a bit of a heavy time investment for something that ends up hailed as a non-event)
TH said they wanted to give time for the fansites to put up the stuff. Makes sense, what's the point on having exclusive E3 stuff if it's going to be covered in the usual means?
Most of this is about presentation. Building (right) expectation, keeping the fans interested and positively enthused. Instead, once again, they seem to have managed to antagonise everyone and even if they were to turn round tomorrow and slap the official video on the forums it'd be greeted with "Too little too late" "Oh is this ALL??"
As I've mentioned most people I've run into in game and asked there thoughts on the Restuss thing were pretty posiviely enthused and looking forward to more details popping up. Having people on the edge of their seat isn't exactly a bad thing...
Very badly handled all the way thru.
Every project they have ever touched. One can only look at EQ2 as a perfect example. The Everquest franchise was the most popular MMORPG of all time when it was being handled by VERENT inc. It is sad when you see almost everyone leaving by the hundreds. I have a friend who used to love EQ2 and was a EQ vet of the original series. He says, he had over 50 friends on his list. Now no one on his list is in the game. Most of his guild WAS GOING TO RELOCATE TO VANGUARD...BUT, SOE has assumed rights to that, now doomed project.
Take comfort, SOE will soon be out of the MMO business. They will not be able to sustain the massive loss of revenue. They are considered a Joke in the MMO community and have no real player base.
playing eq2 and two worlds
stance in interviews after the event contribute to that line of
thinking. Phil Harrison, the English face of the console, tried to downplay the importance of the show in an interview,
suggesting that the show alone did not dictate the future direction of
gaming. Ken Kutaragi, grandfather of the PlayStation, went on a price
offensive, saying that not only was the price comparable with the price
of the original uber-successful PlayStation, but that it possibly wasn't even expensive enough.
Sony lacked a single stand-out title to be the poster-boy for its
next-gen effort. Wii had signature games in spades, with Zelda
obviously the most popular. I mean, how do you trump Zelda? Sony
certainly couldn't. The trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4 certainly looked
spectacular and involving, but it was all pre-rendered FMV. That does
not a good showing make. On the show floor, there was nothing that we
hadn't seen already on the Xbox 360. The racing games and Japanese
action / RPG titles looked utterly generic and Warhawk, the only game
to make use of the PS3's motion sensing controller, was bland, if kind
of cool. Yes, the PS3 has loads of great technology and yes, it has
Blu-Ray and, yes,
this generation is really Sony's fight to lose, given the success of
the PlayStation 2. But, for Sony, the lack of AAA games six months
before launch must be worrying.
It gets worse -- in the next paragraph, they talk about the PC games.
All of which is to entirely miss out on the amazing PC games on show.
Obviously, one of the biggest showings was the Burning Crusade
expansion for World of Warcraft. This is the first extension to the
world's most popular online game, and it looks like Blizzard have got
it right, based on fan feedback at the show. The WoW behemoth shows no
signs of slowing down.
GG.
[On a side note, they liked Quake Wars...
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
(btw, Ob...
*********************
So, you all sat in camps and that was fun?
*********************
Verant is SOE.
If you care about looking f'ing intelligent go do the research on just how "Verant" became "Verant" and WHY they became "Verant". They were originally division 989 of SOE (989 was EQ's project number). Then they got spun off as "989 Studios" then they changed their name to "Verant" then once the game had paid it's debts SOE re-integrated the company back into SOE.
As to the whole "E3" thing? Obra I have to point out:
For months LEC and SOE have been saying "We have big news for SWG that's going to completely change things around and we're going to announce it at E3" blah blah blah. Then at E3 we hear "in game event, players will have to stockpile equipment.... eventually unlock.... big explosion.... no more restus.... now have a battleground to fight in...
Um:
I'm not saying the event is a bad idea... .it's not... if it works the way they want it to it's a nice idea. But, as others have said... and EVENT is not worthy of an E3 announcement. Expansions, major code changes, etc... THAT is worthy of E3. SOE and LEC have been stringing players along with promises of some big announcement at E3... THAT is why people are mad.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I'm not flaming (or inviting flames) on either game just pointing out a hole in your argument.
Well I can dream anyway.
Kai Yukmot quit the game a couple of months ago...he tried it out for 1 month and called it quits again. This is Edmonde Dantes of Myst...an old friend of Ubens...if you are still in contact with Uben tell him to get a hold of Yukmot and I at http://guild.magnumusmysterium.com ...we are going to try out Roma Victor and want to join up with Uben since he was praising this game along time ago...
Not many of the old Kauri Vets are playing...the ones that do don't play for long and the ones that claim to be Kauri Vets have only been around since CU...not many Pre-Cu Left...
We have enough Youth, How about a Fountain of Intelligence?
The presentation Star Wars Galaxies showed at E3 was pretty much par for the course as far as SWG's development team goes. Another lackluster offering that pales in comparison to any other game in the genre however the dev's pat themselves on the back and hype themselves up like they're a big deal. It's really... awkward by now.
I was not impressed with the presentation at all. I didn't know what it was because I don't really scan the forums for some off-shot quoted post by Smedley saying what it was. Obraik put a link up to that post like it was an official announcement that was advertised, and in the same breath said the forums weren't the majority of the voice behind the community. It seems like a contradiction of sorts to me.
I'm a man that bases statements off of opinions and reasoning, however I feel that by now I think it's a fact that Star Wars Galaxies has failed. They may not close their doors for a while yet, but the health of the game is far from satisfactory.
I wanted Star Wars Galaxies to succeed, but now I want it to close down and fail so that SOE learns a valuable lesson: Intellectul Properties don't guarantee revenue. I think it's pretty ridiculous that Smedley himself said he wasn't happy with the state of Star Wars Galaxies, and yet he still expected people to pay money for a product that isn't finished or up to the president's standards. They talk six month projections of game functions that should have been in the game two years ago like people are crazy to think they shouldn't have to pay for the game while that stuff develops.
SWG is a botched game that has let down on every single promise its ever made. Even the six month promise with the NGE fell through. How many more chances do they deserve before people pull their subscriptions and take their business elsewhere? If SOE can come through on all their promises about the NGE and the expertise system (That Friday Feature was a shallow skimover of the idea, by the way) then I'd consider coming back. But I'd be a pushover to pay for an unfinished game, and anyone who DOES pay monthly for that unfinished game is a pushover with exceedingly low standards.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
xPaladin does indeed speak the truth in a general sense. We are introverted creatures who tend only to stick to our own kind. Placing us into a situation like Rogue_5's is always a mistake -- unless the audience is also software developers. The only time I've presented was at GDC, and it was a real kick because I knew the people I was presenting to were my kind.
If I were an SOE developer presenting to gamers, I would be in fear for my life.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Well I can dream anyway.
Well I am old enough to know better and keep my mouth shut (when I can). If you folks only knew how us x-soe players felt about this company. Yeah, you personally havent been hit by the SOE virus, but I have on 3 of their games. So I have a right to voice my opinion about any game that SOE may develop.
I just hope it doesnt happen to you and goodluck with a piece of **** company.
Thanks for clearing up the Verant explanation, I would have done it but you do it much better
Anyway, back to SWG. That's not true, ever since they've announced they've been doing something at E3, we've known that it was this thing. See this thread, http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=swggpdiscussion&message.id=635039&query.id=0#M635039
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
The point being made in the post is that quite a lot of people -- such as the disillusioned vets you continue to flamebait -- are still waiting for SOE to make the magic announcement that will save the game. Honestly, all the hate is from a lot of Star Wars lovers who really want to play Star Wars online, but find its current state unacceptable. So large an amount, in fact, that the flamers outvoice the fans.
Sony could have at LEAST tried something truly special and unique, but the fact that they didn't reinforces the point many flamers try to make about the people running the SWG show -- they just don't care. Its obvious they're actually content to make what they can with what minimal investment is possible, and it really begs the question of how deep that logic is rooted (no, that's not a pun) into Sony.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
To be honest I wasn't expecting much, but they even fell short of those low expectations. I at the very least expected them to go into much greater detail on the new talent system or discuss some detailed plans for a class revamp, but instead its just some idiotic one time event thing that seems completely dated and silly. I mean...so what if they blow up Restuss? Its not like anyone goes there or even cares. Even this would seem better if they somehow rotated it like the old village in phases or something.
I am not sure when I had this Magellan moment, but reading this made me realize that these guys honestly have no clue what to do with this game. They fumble around more than a teenage boy in heat.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
Sure, I understand that, but in comparison, have you seen how Blackgard from EQ II looked when he was showing his presentation of EQ 2's expansion pack and how the guy from Sigil looked when they showed Vanguard and the character creation? They looked totally calm, cool, and collected, where as Rogue_5 looked like a deer in the headlights. I would have expected him to be more experienced at that sort of things in comparison with the other two I mentioned. I do feel for the guy, but he made the bed, hes gotta lay in it.
First, we're all pasty and white-skinned. Even the black guys among us. This is mainly due to a combination of sun-deprivation, 50-80 hour underpaid workweeks, and hard, theoretical work that's often shot down by management because they had a last second change of heart.
Second, many programmers have very little normal human contact, so they're naturally nervous when in a situation that involves normal people. The most typical human human contact a programmer gets is usually in the form of n00bs of various titles (read: upper management) who want us to do something. that's usually impossible, or at a minimum very, very difficult.
So it's understandable the poor guy is jittery.
Hope that clears things up.
Sure, I understand that, but in comparison, have you seen how Blackgard from EQ II looked when he was showing his presentation of EQ 2's expansion pack and how the guy from Sigil looked when they showed Vanguard and the character creation? They looked totally calm, cool, and collected, where as Rogue_5 looked like a deer in the headlights. I would have expected him to be more experienced at that sort of things in comparison with the other two I mentioned. I do feel for the guy, but he made the bed, hes gotta lay in it.
SOE / LA made the bed , he has to work in it . He is just like anyone else out there , You have to bring in the bread some how .
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A picture speaks a thousand words and the one you will be interested in is the second one down.
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=82#more