i haven't followed vanguard and know nothing about it other then what this article has said, but I agree with ardien (well said BTW) I don't want a diablo clone with a larger population. Those games are fine and have played some (still do) and have enjoyed them, but I want a submersive world, that's realistic, that provides diversity and isn't just about gaing loot and instant gratification. If vanguard can provide that I'd buy it. Although, I agree that I probably won't because it's being published by SOE, it'll have to be a pretty solid game for me to consider it.
Sorry, Im just not that impressed. Nothing they mentioned really strikes me as "wow how innovative", except for maybe the caravan feature which sounds pretty cool.
The biggest gripe I have is that 20% solo content thing. I mean, why is it that devs feel they need to punish the solo player? Not everyone has a huge guild or a ton of friends they can group with all the time. And most PUG groups, well many of them turn into a big power struggle over which objectives are going to be completed. Dont get me wrong, grouping is fun. But Id rather group for fun, because I WANT to. Not because I HAVE to, to advance or be competitive with gear etc.
Grouping should be done for fun not out of necessity. Ive only seen a few mmo's really understand this. Maybe after Vanguard's profit margin is less than expected their first year theyll wise up and start thinking about this kind of thing.
I was really looking forward to this game until the recent announcement that it will be published by SOE. After what SOE did to Star Wars: Galaxies I will never play another game that is connected to SOE in any way.
It's too bad because it looks like the developers of Vanguard are really trying to make something unique with this game but I know there are many people out there who, like me, won't touch anything connected to SOE.
Vanguard is doing a lot of things the right way imho and I think there are a few things people need to step back and take a look at (here in no particular order):
- They are stating up front that they are not the game for everyone. They are shooting for a little bit more involved MMO which requires grouping and far more social interraction than games such as WoW require. I very much agree that the more variety and choice that consumers have, the better everyone is because of it. I think MMO's are very much one of the premier up and coming entertainment industry standards, and having lots of choice in the kind of MMO you can pick will always be a good thing. Take TV.. I cant stand reality shows, but if everyone felt that way then why are there just so many of them? Someone has to be watching that crap Its the same here. I personally look forward to a little bit more challenging MMO and am looking forward to VG and hope it will be my next home for a long time to come.
- The SOE issue. This is my opinion and I realize that others will disagree with me and thats fine. Im a gamer and it comes down to one thing for me and one thing alone. Is the game good? If the game is fun and is what I am looking for in an MMO, then by all means I am going to play it and have a hell of a good time (I hope) doing so. In other words, for me I dont think it really IS an issue. It comes down to the all mighty dollar. We vote with our money. If a developer messes up then dont play their game. If enough people pull their money out then someone will start to notice. Also.. the more games we play that follow the design philosophy that we believe in, the more developers should take notice and try and emulate and improve on those types of games and genres. If VG goes downhill for whatever reason, then I will drop them like a rock. Up until that point though, I am going to give them a fair and honest shot. Personally.. I dont think they are idiots and think the game will be rather good.
All that said, I did not think the interview was all that great either which is unfortunate since there were so many really good ones out there. The very least they could have done was to ask a question or two that had not been answered two to three months ago already. Class specific info (paladin, dreadknight, etc..?), more detail on spawnable encounters and competiton for end game content, anti zerg code, hell I can come up with half a dozen off the top of my head.
Originally posted by smg77 I was really looking forward to this game until the recent announcement that it will be published by SOE. After what SOE did to Star Wars: Galaxies I will never play another game that is connected to SOE in any way.
It's too bad because it looks like the developers of Vanguard are really trying to make something unique with this game but I know there are many people out there who, like me, won't touch anything connected to SOE.
That is just not thinking very much right there. SOE is not developing VG at all.. They are only publishing it and providing tech support. Nothing they are doing will have any impact on the game design at all. Hell..not even in game GM support will not be handled by them, only tech support. Here is a guy over at vanguard fighters who thought exactly the same way at first. Read why he didnt back out after this: http://vanguardfighters.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=108
It seems people that have posted on this topic have alot of mixed feelings about the game. One of the negative aspects seem to be the whole 20% solo content thing. From my understanding (which can be very little at times so watch out) the world is planned to be gigantic. I remember seeing something about Brad comparing just one landmass in the game to madagascar (can't spell). Never been there myself, but when I compared the size of the landmass vs madagwhatever in the picture to oregon I was really impressed. It's a big area. Now times that by three (or four, if they come out with that mysterious fourth landmass I keep hearing about) and you got alot of adventuring space. So 20% could very well be a huge amount of solo content and is by no means something to complain about.
As for the SOE thing: Like someone else said, a game is a game and I'll play it if it's good regardless of who was involved with making/producing it. To not buy a game just because "the big evil money hungry corperation wants to take our monies!" seems silly to me and maybe those people should realise that by not buying Vanguard they are hurting the future of hardcore mmos by giving SOE and others a reason not to support hardcore mmos. Fact of the matter is Vanguard can be plenty successful without the swg and eq lot that swore off SOE if most of them really went though with it (though I imagine they will have a change of heart depending on how good the game is). But for every person that swore off SOE and still stick by that choice, they are only bringing the axe down on the head of their own beliefs of what a good mmo should be. Because if Vanguard doesn't bring in the doe than companies like soe will believe nobody wants these games and crank out wow clones instead.
Personaly, I like where VG is going. These days the mmo trend is to come up with something completely unique and totally different or copy another game, it's the few developers that take the middle path that I see as being successful in my eyes. The industry nowadays is so saturated with new, not-so-intersting ideas anymore that has the playerbase conditioned into either expecting too much or too little from the next gen mmo. I think it's fantastic to see Sigil going back to the uo/eq roots because it's more unique to pull that off than to try something so called "new and innovative to mmos!" that will only capture an audience for a short time like most other mmos out there.
I'm looking for a long, old fashioned journey, and I believe Vanguard will have a good shot at being that journey.
Vanguard, the new forum home of bored trolls! I am SO glad so many people are trolling this game, it will keep the ignorant out of my game world.
WTG Brad! Using SOE to publish is for me one of the best moves in gaming history. Now I don't have to play with people who are totally ignorant! Those people all hate SOE enough to not want to play any game associated with them.
Originally posted by Amathe I thought the article was fairly generous to Vanguard. The writer has more patience than I would, listening to Brad drone on "... and we have this in the game, but not everyone can have it, and we have that in the game, but its very expensive, and oh yeah we also have this, but only for the best." God that gets old. I think I will spend my $50 on a game where the gamemaker wants everyone to have a good time, not just Brad and his gaggle of groupies.
See, this is why this game is quite different to a lot that's out there. A lot of MMO try to please to everyone. They walk you thru everything and make it too easy, WAY too easy. I want a game where not every clown out there as same gear as me. I do like when you have to earn your stuff and work for your game! I dont want to be level 60 in a week! (WoW anyone?)
This in my book is one of the top notch game about to be delivered to the masses. Hero's Journey is the other!
Originally posted by Zippy It really sounded if mmorpg.com reviewer was not a fan of Vanguard and had no intention of writing a positive review. She just could not find anything to complain about so instead she wrote a generic article with no new information or insights. More or less just going through the motions of writing an article. She could have just as easily written this article by reading a preview from 3-4 months ago. MMPORG.com always seems to have a bias against non pvp games and more hardcore pve games. This preview is no exception and a waste of space. If one is intrested in Vanguard E3 information there are close to 20 much better written and informative previews from other sites. If one wants better Vanguard information there are much better links contained in the thread below. http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53263
On the contrary, Zippy, I am very excited about Vanguard - but also very, very cautious. I've gotten my hopes up high for too many games that let me down, so I'm extra cautious when one makes me excited. If that came through in my article, I apologize, but there was no intention of being 'generic'.
Laura "Taera" Genender Community Manager MMORPG.com
Originally posted by narkolepzy It seems people that have posted on this topic have alot of mixed feelings about the game. One of the negative aspects seem to be the whole 20% solo content thing. From my understanding (which can be very little at times so watch out) the world is planned to be gigantic.
The game map seemed pretty large - Butler said that, on the fastest flying mount, it takes about an hour to fly across one of the continents. Assuming they're all roughly the same size, that's 3 hours (square?) of landmass. On a fast flying mount. Not bad.
On the other hand, though, devs the world over should know better than to underestimate their playerbase's ability to chew through content..so I guess we'll wait and see.
Laura "Taera" Genender Community Manager MMORPG.com
Originally posted by Apostle Originally posted by smg77 I was really looking forward to this game until the recent announcement that it will be published by SOE. After what SOE did to Star Wars: Galaxies I will never play another game that is connected to SOE in any way.
It's too bad because it looks like the developers of Vanguard are really trying to make something unique with this game but I know there are many people out there who, like me, won't touch anything connected to SOE.
That is just not thinking very much right there. SOE is not developing VG at all.. They are only publishing it and providing tech support. Nothing they are doing will have any impact on the game design at all. Hell..not even in game GM support will not be handled by them, only tech support. Here is a guy over at vanguard fighters who thought exactly the same way at first. Read why he didnt back out after this: http://vanguardfighters.com/phpnuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=108
Actually, I still don't trust any of them. When you look at how EQ and SWG have been handled. Expansion after crappy expansion. In SWG you have the NGE coming out with no warning just days after charging for an expansion that was made immediatley worthless. I'm still trying to figure out how SOE hasn't been charged with fraud.
Add on to that thnings like the Sony "Exchange" servers for EQ2. Where in now, everytime a new item is created for the game, the developers will have to take into account how much profit they can make off of it.
Sorry, I don't trust SOE under any circumstances. Brad and Co can make the claim they they're remaining in creative control, I don't believe it. I've been in too many company mergers. When the big guys start demanding more profit(and they will), then see what happens. Nope, no money for SOE, not now, not ever.
Originally posted by Zippy It really sounded if mmorpg.com reviewer was not a fan of Vanguard and had no intention of writing a positive review. She just could not find anything to complain about so instead she wrote a generic article with no new information or insights.
I dunno what you are talking about! She could have easily talked about how travel is a pain in the ass or the fact that people HATED CRs in EQ1. What about the quests requiring tradeskills of a specific type, or even race/class? Thats about retarded... people don't have the "right" to access all content (their words)? What the heck is that about?
I've seen this game in action now and it's far from amazing. The days of meding/sitting are back and running for miles and miles to try and find what you are looking for as well. Map system they might as well just remove.
The graphics are not impressive and the system is sluggish as hell.
Corpse recoveries, massive death penalties, contested content and long travel time is NOT what made EQ1 fun.
There is plenty of ways s/he could have ripped this game apart.
Agree the game promises what I want to hear. But this is how they have drawn us many, many times in the past to only find out it's different or changed with a mention that mmorpg's evolve or game vision changes. Original developers move on without totally fixing bugs etc..
Too bad our family has blacklisted purchasing games when SoE is involved in any shape or form. *shrug*
Originally posted by Celestian What about the quests requiring tradeskills of a specific type, or even race/class? Thats about retarded... people don't have the "right" to access all content (their words)? What the heck is that about?
Yes, their words. I am still debating internally whether or not I, personally, like the idea of exclusive content. I mean, I guess all games sort of have it, but Vanguard seems to be taking it to a much larger degree.
As is becoming my catch phrase from the game: We'll see!
Laura "Taera" Genender Community Manager MMORPG.com
been following vanguard for a cpl years now and the visuals have improved greatly even over the past year, but graphics arnt everything the other mechanics sound just awesome.
Originally posted by Celestian Originally posted by Zippy It really sounded if mmorpg.com reviewer was not a fan of Vanguard and had no intention of writing a positive review. She just could not find anything to complain about so instead she wrote a generic article with no new information or insights.
I dunno what you are talking about! She could have easily talked about how travel is a pain in the ass or the fact that people HATED CRs in EQ1. What about the quests requiring tradeskills of a specific type, or even race/class? Thats about retarded... people don't have the "right" to access all content (their words)? What the heck is that about?
I've seen this game in action now and it's far from amazing. The days of meding/sitting are back and running for miles and miles to try and find what you are looking for as well. Map system they might as well just remove.
The graphics are not impressive and the system is sluggish as hell.
Corpse recoveries, massive death penalties, contested content and long travel time is NOT what made EQ1 fun.
There is plenty of ways s/he could have ripped this game apart.
Celestian....finally someone that is on the same page I'm on. I remember when Brad & Co. left Verant/Sony and all the crying about the loss of "The Vision (tm)". Frankly, EQ1 started getting better after they left. All the things they're saying will be "fun" is so not my idea of fun, corpse runs being at the top of the list. And when I disagree with people about that, they say I want a "dumbed down" game that's too easy. Okay, how is running for your corpse a smarter game with more challenges? It's not even good roleplay.
Go ahead, the rest of you can flame on, I'm used to it. I just don't see how Corpse runs, massive death penalties, and any excuse for excessive down time make it more fun. Next they'll be bringing back that big-arse spell book blocking your screen while you sllooooooowwwly mediate your way to full mana.
Celestian....finally someone that is on the same page I'm on. I remember when Brad & Co. left Verant/Sony and all the crying about the loss of "The Vision (tm)". Frankly, EQ1 started getting better after they left. All the things they're saying will be "fun" is so not my idea of fun, corpse runs being at the top of the list. And when I disagree with people about that, they say I want a "dumbed down" game that's too easy. Okay, how is running for your corpse a smarter game with more challenges? It's not even good roleplay. Go ahead, the rest of you can flame on, I'm used to it. I just don't see how Corpse runs, massive death penalties, and any excuse for excessive down time make it more fun. Next they'll be bringing back that big-arse spell book blocking your screen while you sllooooooowwwly mediate your way to full mana.
Enough with the "fun" thing, you are getting it all wrong, an MMORPG does not have to be "fun" it has to be EPIC, and for that you need to suffer, you need pain and effort, you need to be really scared to die, that leads to EPIC battles and situations you will not forget, helping your friends and getting help from them.
When I work ten to twelve hours days in RL, I come home and want my entertainment buck spent on fun. Not about fun? I don't need a second job that I play at my desk after working my arse off in the real world. I'm notsaying I don't want epic. I'm notsaying I don't want challenge. But what I don't want is tedium. Corpse runs are an exercise in tedium.
Comments
for maybe the caravan feature which sounds pretty cool.
The biggest gripe I have is that 20% solo content thing. I mean, why is it that devs feel they need to punish
the solo player? Not everyone has a huge guild or a ton of friends they can group with all the time. And most
PUG groups, well many of them turn into a big power struggle over which objectives are going to be completed.
Dont get me wrong, grouping is fun. But Id rather group for fun, because I WANT to. Not because I HAVE to, to
advance or be competitive with gear etc.
Grouping should be done for fun not out of necessity. Ive only seen a few mmo's really understand this.
Maybe after Vanguard's profit margin is less than expected their first year theyll wise up and start thinking about
this kind of thing.
It's too bad because it looks like the developers of Vanguard are really trying to make something unique with this game but I know there are many people out there who, like me, won't touch anything connected to SOE.
Vanguard is doing a lot of things the right way imho and I think there are a few things people need to step back and take a look at (here in no particular order):
- They are stating up front that they are not the game for everyone. They are shooting for a little bit more involved MMO which requires grouping and far more social interraction than games such as WoW require. I very much agree that the more variety and choice that consumers have, the better everyone is because of it. I think MMO's are very much one of the premier up and coming entertainment industry standards, and having lots of choice in the kind of MMO you can pick will always be a good thing. Take TV.. I cant stand reality shows, but if everyone felt that way then why are there just so many of them? Someone has to be watching that crap
Its the same here. I personally look forward to a little bit more challenging MMO and am looking forward to VG and hope it will be my next home for a long time to come.
- The SOE issue. This is my opinion and I realize that others will disagree with me and thats fine. Im a gamer and it comes down to one thing for me and one thing alone. Is the game good? If the game is fun and is what I am looking for in an MMO, then by all means I am going to play it and have a hell of a good time (I hope) doing so. In other words, for me I dont think it really IS an issue. It comes down to the all mighty dollar. We vote with our money. If a developer messes up then dont play their game. If enough people pull their money out then someone will start to notice. Also.. the more games we play that follow the design philosophy that we believe in, the more developers should take notice and try and emulate and improve on those types of games and genres. If VG goes downhill for whatever reason, then I will drop them like a rock. Up until that point though, I am going to give them a fair and honest shot. Personally.. I dont think they are idiots and think the game will be rather good.
All that said, I did not think the interview was all that great either which is unfortunate since there were so many really good ones out there. The very least they could have done was to ask a question or two that had not been answered two to three months ago already. Class specific info (paladin, dreadknight, etc..?), more detail on spawnable encounters and competiton for end game content, anti zerg code, hell I can come up with half a dozen off the top of my head.
It seems people that have posted on this topic have alot of mixed feelings about the game. One of the negative aspects seem to be the whole 20% solo content thing. From my understanding (which can be very little at times so watch out) the world is planned to be gigantic. I remember seeing something about Brad comparing just one landmass in the game to madagascar (can't spell). Never been there myself, but when I compared the size of the landmass vs madagwhatever in the picture to oregon I was really impressed. It's a big area. Now times that by three (or four, if they come out with that mysterious fourth landmass I keep hearing about) and you got alot of adventuring space. So 20% could very well be a huge amount of solo content and is by no means something to complain about.
As for the SOE thing: Like someone else said, a game is a game and I'll play it if it's good regardless of who was involved with making/producing it. To not buy a game just because "the big evil money hungry corperation wants to take our monies!" seems silly to me and maybe those people should realise that by not buying Vanguard they are hurting the future of hardcore mmos by giving SOE and others a reason not to support hardcore mmos. Fact of the matter is Vanguard can be plenty successful without the swg and eq lot that swore off SOE if most of them really went though with it (though I imagine they will have a change of heart depending on how good the game is). But for every person that swore off SOE and still stick by that choice, they are only bringing the axe down on the head of their own beliefs of what a good mmo should be. Because if Vanguard doesn't bring in the doe than companies like soe will believe nobody wants these games and crank out wow clones instead.
Personaly, I like where VG is going. These days the mmo trend is to come up with something completely unique and totally different or copy another game, it's the few developers that take the middle path that I see as being successful in my eyes. The industry nowadays is so saturated with new, not-so-intersting ideas anymore that has the playerbase conditioned into either expecting too much or too little from the next gen mmo. I think it's fantastic to see Sigil going back to the uo/eq roots because it's more unique to pull that off than to try something so called "new and innovative to mmos!" that will only capture an audience for a short time like most other mmos out there.
I'm looking for a long, old fashioned journey, and I believe Vanguard will have a good shot at being that journey.
Vanguard, the new forum home of bored trolls! I am SO glad so many people are trolling this game, it will keep the ignorant out of my game world.
WTG Brad! Using SOE to publish is for me one of the best moves in gaming history. Now I don't have to play with people who are totally ignorant! Those people all hate SOE enough to not want to play any game associated with them.
See, this is why this game is quite different to a lot that's out there. A lot of MMO try to please to everyone. They walk you thru everything and make it too easy, WAY too easy. I want a game where not every clown out there as same gear as me. I do like when you have to earn your stuff and work for your game! I dont want to be level 60 in a week! (WoW anyone?)
This in my book is one of the top notch game about to be delivered to the masses. Hero's Journey is the other!
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
The game map seemed pretty large - Butler said that, on the fastest flying mount, it takes about an hour to fly across one of the continents. Assuming they're all roughly the same size, that's 3 hours (square?) of landmass. On a fast flying mount. Not bad.
On the other hand, though, devs the world over should know better than to underestimate their playerbase's ability to chew through content..so I guess we'll wait and see.
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Actually, I still don't trust any of them. When you look at how EQ and SWG have been handled. Expansion after crappy expansion. In SWG you have the NGE coming out with no warning just days after charging for an expansion that was made immediatley worthless. I'm still trying to figure out how SOE hasn't been charged with fraud.
Add on to that thnings like the Sony "Exchange" servers for EQ2. Where in now, everytime a new item is created for the game, the developers will have to take into account how much profit they can make off of it.
Sorry, I don't trust SOE under any circumstances. Brad and Co can make the claim they they're remaining in creative control, I don't believe it. I've been in too many company mergers. When the big guys start demanding more profit(and they will), then see what happens. Nope, no money for SOE, not now, not ever.
I've seen this game in action now and it's far from amazing. The days of meding/sitting are back and running for miles and miles to try and find what you are looking for as well. Map system they might as well just remove.
The graphics are not impressive and the system is sluggish as hell.
Corpse recoveries, massive death penalties, contested content and long travel time is NOT what made EQ1 fun.
There is plenty of ways s/he could have ripped this game apart.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Our family played the original EQ for 4+yrs.
My main concern is Sigil switching to SoE.
Agree the game promises what I want to hear. But this is how they have drawn us many, many times in the past to only find out it's different or changed with a mention that mmorpg's evolve or game vision changes. Original developers move on without totally fixing bugs etc..
Too bad our family has blacklisted purchasing games when SoE is involved in any shape or form. *shrug*
Wish Sigil the best.
Yes, their words. I am still debating internally whether or not I, personally, like the idea of exclusive content. I mean, I guess all games sort of have it, but Vanguard seems to be taking it to a much larger degree.
As is becoming my catch phrase from the game: We'll see!
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
Sounds great. All except the last sentence.. I hope this is a good product
I've seen this game in action now and it's far from amazing. The days of meding/sitting are back and running for miles and miles to try and find what you are looking for as well. Map system they might as well just remove.
The graphics are not impressive and the system is sluggish as hell.
Corpse recoveries, massive death penalties, contested content and long travel time is NOT what made EQ1 fun.
There is plenty of ways s/he could have ripped this game apart.
Celestian....finally someone that is on the same page I'm on. I remember when Brad & Co. left Verant/Sony and all the crying about the loss of "The Vision (tm)". Frankly, EQ1 started getting better after they left. All the things they're saying will be "fun" is so not my idea of fun, corpse runs being at the top of the list. And when I disagree with people about that, they say I want a "dumbed down" game that's too easy. Okay, how is running for your corpse a smarter game with more challenges? It's not even good roleplay.
Go ahead, the rest of you can flame on, I'm used to it. I just don't see how Corpse runs, massive death penalties, and any excuse for excessive down time make it more fun. Next they'll be bringing back that big-arse spell book blocking your screen while you sllooooooowwwly mediate your way to full mana.
You are right.. Corpse run are not that fun. espesially when you have to recruit half of another guild to get corpses back