Originally posted by beatbox Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by beatbox TWITCH GAMES not appropriate for RPG's... That's quite funny tbh, do you guys even think before typing something, have you guys ever played a twitch rpg ever in your life to even comment on the subject ?
Beatbox is definitly right. I mean, he plays two games that reach about the bottom in subscribers because only so little people like the game, that it has to be true what he said. and I´m willing to back up his statement. I mean, look at D&DO another game that is doing "great" and that is a perfect example of how "good" twitch based MMO's are doing.
a word of advice to you beatbox, just because someone has a diffrent oppinion then you have, doesn't mean he or she is "clueless".
Yeah, cause suscribers eventually has something to do with it... If you wanna play that way then, 90% of games played are probably all twitch, most console games and arcade , etc, so your argument means jackshit even though it's offtopic.
You also assume a lot , and also dont need advice from someone who thinks that less people play twitch games LOL.
are all those games mmorpg's? no. you say Necron is a true RPG. get it? Role Playing Game. it means you play with the ability of your character, not your own (heck, we have CS for that)
anyway, why are we here saying PnC is outdated? as far as I know, WASD is just as old as Point & Click. I prefer Point & Click movement. walking a long road holding W can be a pain. its more easy with point & click. its also much more easy to pick the right target with point and click in big battles. if you ask me, WASD movement is outdated, not Pint & Click.
i'm an advocate of the 8456 instead of the WASD. What? why are you all looking at me like that
I'm left handed I use the numberpad
Honestly, I think it's a matter of preference. Do you like to drive an automatic or a stickshift?
And to the person who said that RPG can't be done twitchy, there are a few out there that are more then your average FPS 64 player games; Planetside, Jumpgate to name 2.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
And to the person who said that RPG can't be done twitchy, there are a few out there that are more then your average FPS 64 player games; Planetside, Jumpgate to name 2.
But Planetside is not an mmoRPG, it's an mmoFPS. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not an RPG.
Originally posted by apocalance Every game I've tried where there's point and click required movement, I've usually found that I would rather have keyboard keys to move.
I agree with apocalance on this one. It is very frustrating to be forced in to one type of control when you are used to another. There should be an option for both with fully customizable keyboard mappings.
I do not like PNC movement for anything other than isometric 3d games like UO. There are plenty of single player RPGs that use this view also, and I think that PNC movement is appropriate. I don't think it is appropriate in PVP based games where you need to have immediate and accurate control of your character.
What kind of boring game are people playing that they want to be able to be eating or smoking or whatever with their other hand while they control their character exclusively with one hand. Using the term control losely. It works with some games but I find it more frustrating than helpful.
I want to use the mouse to interact with the world - click objects, click my inventory windows, not accidently start running off somewhere becuase I clicked off a window or a monster. But I also want a game I am into form the minute I log on. I did the everquest thing sitting around and chit-chatting, now I want to be active running around seeing and doing things - fighting, doing quests and the keyboard to move and mouse to interact with the world is my preferred way to do that.
---MMO EXPERIENCE:--- WoW - 06-2006 to current COV - 40 Corruptor - 10-2005 to 04-2006 COH - 50 Scrapper - 04-2004 to 04-2006 EQ2 - 35 Barb Berserker - 12-2004 to 04-2005 EQ1 - 55 Barb Warrior - 2000, 2001 Tried: DaoC, DDO, Auto Assault, SWG, Lineage II
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Azathoth
Heck, even pen and paper RPG chars are an extension of the player. The PLAYER makes the decisions, period. Even if it's the DM. These decisions are made based on the player's experience, which can, in a way equate to skills. I know it's a reach, but it's true.
Ahh, but that is the essence of a RPG.
Look at what I wrote above: the player decides what he wants the character to do, but the character's abilities determine whether the character can succeed at the task. If the player is smarter and has a good idea, there isn't anything non-RPG about that at all, because regardless of the good idea, if the player's character does not have the skills to pull it off, it won't work ... and that's how an RPG works. The more that gets invaded and watered down by twitch controls, the more diluted the RPG aspect of the game becomes.
True. I see your point. I don't know how diluted (to what level) twitch makes the RPG aspect, but I do see your point.
Brilliant...I'm with him keep the basics like movement, well,......Basic! I think complicating movement, using, ect... will just complicate gameplay. work on things like graphics, storyline, and overall gameplay instead of trying to complicate computer games.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Twitch games are not appropriate for RPGs.
In an RPG the player input is in deciding what you want your character to do ... whether your character can do it well depends on the character's skills, and not the player's skills. The character in an RPG is not merely the extension of the player, as is the case in an FPS, for example. Importing so-called "player skill" ideas into an RPG is totally inappropriate and guts the entire idea of a character-based game, which is the essence of a roleplaying game to begin with.
Completely agreed. Thing is, there are plenty of people who think RPGs should be twitch-based. That's why there are so many action-RPGs out there. Not a single good one though.
Twitch-based high-competition MMORPGs are just for people who can't play FPS games. I mean, it's basically an FPS (you choose which weapon to use at which time - ie. you choose which spell to cast or skill to use at which time), except you don't have to do any aiming.
Yet the honour-grinding leetkiddies of WoW are far more up their own asses than any Q3 pro.
Comments
Beatbox is definitly right. I mean, he plays two games that reach about the bottom in subscribers because only so little people like the game, that it has to be true what he said. and I´m willing to back up his statement. I mean, look at D&DO another game that is doing "great" and that is a perfect example of how "good" twitch based MMO's are doing.
a word of advice to you beatbox, just because someone has a diffrent oppinion then you have, doesn't mean he or she is "clueless".
Yeah, cause suscribers eventually has something to do with it... If you wanna play that way then, 90% of games played are probably all twitch, most console games and arcade , etc, so your argument means jackshit even though it's offtopic.
You also assume a lot , and also dont need advice from someone who thinks that less people play twitch games LOL.
are all those games mmorpg's? no. you say Necron is a true RPG. get it? Role Playing Game. it means you play with the ability of your character, not your own (heck, we have CS for that)
anyway, why are we here saying PnC is outdated? as far as I know, WASD is just as old as Point & Click. I prefer Point & Click movement. walking a long road holding W can be a pain. its more easy with point & click. its also much more easy to pick the right target with point and click in big battles. if you ask me, WASD movement is outdated, not Pint & Click.
i'm an advocate of the 8456 instead of the WASD. What? why are you all looking at me like that
I'm left handed
I use the numberpad
Honestly, I think it's a matter of preference. Do you like to drive an automatic or a stickshift?
And to the person who said that RPG can't be done twitchy, there are a few out there that are more then your average FPS 64 player games; Planetside, Jumpgate to name 2.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
I do not like PNC movement for anything other than isometric 3d games like UO. There are plenty of single player RPGs that use this view also, and I think that PNC movement is appropriate. I don't think it is appropriate in PVP based games where you need to have immediate and accurate control of your character.
What kind of boring game are people playing that they want to be able to be eating or smoking or whatever with their other hand while they control their character exclusively with one hand. Using the term control losely. It works with some games but I find it more frustrating than helpful.
I want to use the mouse to interact with the world - click objects, click my inventory windows, not accidently start running off somewhere becuase I clicked off a window or a monster. But I also want a game I am into form the minute I log on. I did the everquest thing sitting around and chit-chatting, now I want to be active running around seeing and doing things - fighting, doing quests and the keyboard to move and mouse to interact with the world is my preferred way to do that.
---MMO EXPERIENCE:---
WoW - 06-2006 to current
COV - 40 Corruptor - 10-2005 to 04-2006
COH - 50 Scrapper - 04-2004 to 04-2006
EQ2 - 35 Barb Berserker - 12-2004 to 04-2005
EQ1 - 55 Barb Warrior - 2000, 2001
Tried: DaoC, DDO, Auto Assault, SWG, Lineage II
Ahh, but that is the essence of a RPG.
Look at what I wrote above: the player decides what he wants the character to do, but the character's abilities determine whether the character can succeed at the task. If the player is smarter and has a good idea, there isn't anything non-RPG about that at all, because regardless of the good idea, if the player's character does not have the skills to pull it off, it won't work ... and that's how an RPG works. The more that gets invaded and watered down by twitch controls, the more diluted the RPG aspect of the game becomes.
True. I see your point. I don't know how diluted (to what level) twitch makes the RPG aspect, but I do see your point.
Cartman has a big fat ass!
Twitch-based high-competition MMORPGs are just for people who can't play FPS games. I mean, it's basically an FPS (you choose which weapon to use at which time - ie. you choose which spell to cast or skill to use at which time), except you don't have to do any aiming.
Yet the honour-grinding leetkiddies of WoW are far more up their own asses than any Q3 pro.
________
-nexen-
Point and click to move is soooooooo 5 years ago.