SWG EMU...is SWG2!!!...

LAW!

a New Hope!!!

I need confirmation...My friend was telling me that a group of the Original Developers are redesigning SWG back to pre PUB 11!!!!! These Rogue Devs Ramsey, Xenozephyr and Berix, are doing this for free and each server will be independant and free to make what ever changes they see fit.  Has anyone seen this yet??? I know it is going to take a long time to do this (2 or 3 years) but it is getting done.

THIS IS NOT A RUMOR!!!! SEE FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Spathotan

Doubt it. "Rouge Devs" would be better off going and looking for another damn job if they left SWG, if they havnt already, rather than sit on their ass comming up with some emulator and looking at mass charges and jail time, espically since SoE has past employment records...their names.

Rekrul

The link is www.swgemu.com

And they are not the original developers.

And no, developing and running an emu by itself is not illegal. Look at EQ, UO, WOW, and others. You just need to obey the legal restrictions with regard to intelectual property, copyrights and similar.

Spathotan

---

Originally posted by Rekrul

The link is www.swgemu.com

And they are not the original developers.

And no, developing and running an emu by itself is not illegal. Look at EQ, UO, WOW, and others. You just need to obey the legal restrictions with regard to intelectual property, copyrights and similar.

---

This has been brought up 100 times and lets just not take it any further than it has to go for the sake of argument lol. But do you really think SoE would allow some emulator to have more people than its live servers (which it would if it was real, but it isnt)? They would find some beef one way or another.

britoca

oh boy, I already spent some time arguing my way through swgemu about this topic.  They like to blur the lines over there quite a bit.

I paste here part of my post on swgemu about this:

[paste]
Sorry about spoiling the legality discussion,
but just to erase all vestigial doubts about whether or not any of this
is legal, from SWG's EULA itself:


Note: (…) means I selectively erased non-relevant text for this discussion




TERMS OF USE FOR STAR WARS GALAXIES™: AN EMPIRE DIVIDED™


(…)


2. To play the Game you must:
(and by Game they mean THIS game SWG, which is defined as being a
massive multiplayer internet game hosted by SOE’s servers. Any other
variation of this usage would be directly tampering with the game, and
therefore illegal)




(...)


(ii) have a fully paid Account;

(I don’t think I need to point out we’ll be violating this too)




(…)

7. (…) You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not
acquire or obtain (…) any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to
the software, (..) and other components included in the accompanying
CD-ROM (the "Software")

(meaning: u cannot use the CD-Roms and the software included for no
purpose other than installing the game and connect to SOE servers to
play it)




(…)


You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators;

(do I really need to paraphrase that one?)




(...)


You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server

[/paste]

Anyways,  That settles the matter about the legality of these efforts in my opinion.  It sure reads clear to me.  I just don't like it when u ask a clear question about legality of a particular issue and they answer with half-whipped answers about fairness and rebellion.

Now, whether it's fair or not to do it.  That's is a different issue altogether, like debating civil disobedience.  I'm all for it imo.

SpiritCrawler

SWGEMU is nothing but a fan club. You will find four "developers" who know nothing about reverse engineering. Don't waste your time on SWGEMU. You won't find anything worthy coming from them. They have been working on this "emulator project" for about two years now. They haven't gotten far at all. I see SWG2, or something of that nature coming out before their emulator does.

Kehn

 Drive-by cut-n-paste

from: http://forum.enb-emulator.com/viewtopic.php?t=224 posted by Phorlaug (an EnB guy)

Some of these links may be of interest here:

Info for Game Emulation Or Cracking . updated 3/25/06

I seen something on another site that got me looking for info. I'll update this post as I find it. http://www.hexprobe.com/hexprobe/index.htm 3/25/06 http://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/ 3/25/06 http://www.ixiacom.com/support/chariot/appscripts/ApplicationScripts-Library.php 3/7/06 http://www.wilsonc.demon.co.uk/d10resourceeditor.htm 3/7/06 http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/ 3/7/06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_code 3/7/06 http://enb-files1.game-host.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=792&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0&sid=87c854d1a740fdbffe067be67a2cf555 http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1101738506769 http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/20050901_decision.pdf http://www.lofi-gaming.org.uk/emulation/newbies.php

SpiritCrawler

Some fun documentation! Thanks for "drive-by cutting and pasting" it.

Rekrul

http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/20050901_decision.pdf

---

Interesting. The only issue it came down to, was the CD-key circumvention. Other charges apparently didn't stand.

rock-eclipse

hehe, an emulation may not be illegal, as someone put it, but one thing I can tell you, as I've studied my share of law in prep for my MBA is that the law is always changing and decisions are made by interpretation of the law.

I guarantee you that if any one single SWG emulation goes live and even remotely public, as to have more than 2 people playing it, that little team of hackers will be in a legal battle with two of the biggest legal warriors of the age: Sony and LA, and even if they didn't win the first go-round, both of these heavyweight companies have the $$$ to stay in the litigation game until they win...appeal after appeal after appeal, unto the USSC.

I actually remember Smed responding to a question about pre-cu emu's and I'll have to find the link, but it was something like a big laugh, followed by, "aside from the obvious litigations..." and that was all he had to say on it.  He went into talking about what the swg team has in store to make the game better, yada yada.

Maybe an emu of another game would survive, but Star Wars would be impossible, period.

kaibigan34

Well I remember Smedley saying if anyone ever made an EMU he would hire them. Probably why no one has done one yet. Who wants to work for SOE?

Kai

Kehn

---

Originally posted by kaibigan34
Well I remember Smedley saying if anyone ever made an EMU he would hire them. Probably why no one has done one yet. Who wants to work for SOE?

Kai

---

 nice

rock-eclipse

yup, it was actually the same comment...where is that?  I can't find it now...

jkerr

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=devdigest&message.id=16

Its there somewere.

rock-eclipse

Here it is:

"ROFL

Ok. Without engaging in the obvious "we'll bust out our
lawyers and sue people" rhetoric let me be blunt - if someone can write
a SWG server emulator that's any good please apply for a job here
because you have to be pretty damn good. You also better be able to
know SQL pretty well and have an oracle database and a ton of other
important stuff. This emulator stuff is nothing more than a hobby for
some really smart people. You don't seriously think we're worried about
this do you (and I mean that in a very positive way btw)? I take it as
the ultimate compliment. Now, if some genius ever actually pulled it
off.. well that would be another matter entirely. In EverQuest a couple
of really smart guys made something called ShowEQ which basically
showed off a bunch of stuff we didn't intend for players to see. I
ended up hiring the key developer of that program. He's a really smart
programmer named Roy Eltham. He actually broke our encryption. He's
still here.
Smed"

britoca

---

Originally posted by jkerr
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=devdigest&message.id=16

Its there somewere.

---

interesting as well:

"it
has been brought to my attention that we are a little overzealous with
our thread and post deletion. I've asked that to be toned way down.

Smed"

03-24-2006 02:52 PM

royalpenalty

just a thought...

since SOE no longer runs a game that is anything like SWG preCU, do they still have rights to it?  or do they just have rights to the NGE?  could a person make the argument that a emu has nothing to do w/ competing w/ the NGE?  im no legal beagle, just wondering.

royalpenalty

also, here is where SOE really sux.  they could just put out a classic server, which would more or less put any emulators out of business while once again creating a happy fan base and raking in the dough.  dumb bastards.

MX13

---

Originally posted by Spathotan
Doubt it. "Rouge Devs" would be better off going and looking for another damn job if they left SWG, if they havnt already, rather than sit on their ass comming up with some emulator and looking at mass charges and jail time, espically since SoE has past employment records...their names.

---

Actually (and I checked with an old gaming friend who is a CL and aske da friend) as long as they change every single graphical mask (and identifying textures), Star Wars reference, lisence the engine (SOE didn't design the base engine) or replace it & don't charge for it they will get away with it. Style of gameplay is not protected, and if SOE can't prove it is galaxies, they'll get away with it. They can even try to charge for it, and may get away with it.

matraque

---

Originally posted by SpiritCrawler
SWGEMU is nothing but a fan club. You will find four "developers" who know nothing about reverse engineering. Don't waste your time on SWGEMU. You won't find anything worthy coming from them. They have been working on this "emulator project" for about two years now. They haven't gotten far at all. I see SWG2, or something of that nature coming out before their emulator does.

---

Exactly.  SWGEmu will probably never see the day lights.  They are just a bunch of "kids" with an ego.

oreyi

Drugs are illegal and people consumes drugs...

Driving without using the seatbelt is illegal and people drives without the seatbelt...

Killing is illegal and people still kills...

Emulators might be illegal (depends of many things) but people *does create and use emulators* and will allways do...

Apart from the fact that some countries do not recognice the laws of the country of origin of a game.

And apart from the fact that once it's in emule there's no way to stop it once it's been spread ^^

Beside that, why should fanbois worry about it?

Oh yeah, because the game would be even emptier ^^

neya

A EULA is a legal agreement to which you accept before you pay to play for an online game.

It doesn't denote the legality of emulated servers.

Providing that these servers are hosted in countries where Information Technology laws are less restrictive, there is nothing that Sony Online Entertainment can do regarding restraint.

Remember that it's Intellectual Property Rights, Trademark Rights and Copyright Rights that protect the product and or service that is provided, not a EULA agreement.

Rekrul

---

Originally posted by neya

A EULA is a legal agreement to which you accept before you pay to play for an online game.
It doesn't denote the legality of emulated servers.
Providing that these servers are hosted in countries where Information Technology laws are less restrictive, there is nothing that Sony Online Entertainment can do regarding restraint.
Remember that it's Intellectual Property Rights, Trademark Rights and Copyright Rights that protect the product and or service that is provided, not a EULA agreement.

---

Well, going from that blizzard vs. bnet trial, EULA was unenforcable in court. The claim that did stick, was copyright violation due to bnet offering the ability to use illegal copies, since it bypassed the CD-key authentication.

Scaris

---

Originally posted by oreyi

Drugs are illegal and people consumes drugs...
Driving without using the seatbelt is illegal and people drives without the seatbelt...
Killing is illegal and people still kills...
Emulators might be illegal (depends of many things) but people *does create and use emulators* and will allways do...Apart from the fact that some countries do not recognice the laws of the country of origin of a game.
And apart from the fact that once it's in emule there's no way to stop it once it's been spread ^^Beside that, why should fanbois worry about it?
Oh yeah, because the game would be even emptier ^^

---

So it's ok to kill, steal, drive without a seat belt, do drugs, and use emulators because other people do it?

Spathotan

---

Originally posted by Fadeus


Originally posted by oreyi

Drugs are illegal and people consumes drugs...
Driving without using the seatbelt is illegal and people drives without the seatbelt...
Killing is illegal and people still kills...
Emulators might be illegal (depends of many things) but people *does create and use emulators* and will allways do...

Apart from the fact that some countries do not recognice the laws of the country of origin of a game.
And apart from the fact that once it's in emule there's no way to stop it once it's been spread ^^
Beside that, why should fanbois worry about it?
Oh yeah, because the game would be even emptier ^^

So it's ok to kill, steal, drive without a seat belt, do drugs, and use emulators because other people do it?

---

Lol. You win these forums today good sir.

Spathotan

---

Originally posted by MX13

Originally posted by Spathotan
Doubt it. "Rouge Devs" would be better off going and looking for another damn job if they left SWG, if they havnt already, rather than sit on their ass comming up with some emulator and looking at mass charges and jail time, espically since SoE has past employment records...their names.

Actually (and I checked with an old gaming friend who is a CL and aske da friend) as long as they change every single graphical mask (and identifying textures), Star Wars reference, lisence the engine (SOE didn't design the base engine) or replace it & don't charge for it they will get away with it. Style of gameplay is not protected, and if SOE can't prove it is galaxies, they'll get away with it. They can even try to charge for it, and may get away with it.

---

Thats all true. But then its not SWG. Its just a waste of time, wait it already is.