Originally posted by Xploror I speak from the stand point that includes the following:
1. What other AC2 players who CURRENTLY play have said. Both AC2 super-in-denial-fans as well as honest AC2 fans, as well as non AC2 fans.
2. What I personally experienced in Beta, release, and after release.
3. What mainstream media have said, and recorded.
4. What the AC2 game DEVs and AC2 press have said, posted, and recorded.
All these various sources have kept me fully informed about the past, present, and obvioius future of AC2. I understand the game very, very, well based on the above 4 primary sources.
Ok, let's go through your 'stand points':
1.) Experience from OTHERS. It's not yours, it's from OTHERS!! And funny thing is that all current players who are posting on this forum are saying that AC2 is great. And you conclude that game is bad?!?! Very stupid from you indeed.
2.) You haven't played the game for more than a year. You have absolutely no idea what does the game look like now. It's changed a lot in last 6 months since I've started playing. I can't even imagine how much it changed in whole last year. And you still think you can judge this game? Again, very stupid from you.
3.) Again it's opinions from others. If ppl want to read media reviews they can by themselves. No need for you to quote media. And the media only reviewed AC2 at release. The game has changed enormously since then. Looks like another meaningless and useless source of information of AC2.
4.) Info from DEVs and AC2 PRs?! I've never heard them saying or posting anything bad about AC2. And you're flaming this game all the time. I guess you're not reading info from AC2 DEVs and PRs after all. Or you just reverse everything they say. Stupid indeed.
So your experience of AC2 is exactly 0 (zero, null, nada...) All you know about the current state of AC2 is from media. So you're just an average MMORPG fan whose only info of AC2 is from various websites and other media.
My appeal is this: don't believe old reviews and general opinion about AC2. Game has changed a LOT since then and is still changing. It is getting better with each monthly update. Try Free 15 days trial. It's 100% free and you don't need credit card.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
" Why would a company keep adding new content if the old content has not been used yet? BTW, AC2 is "falsly adverstising" its new content as new content LOL. Half of it should have, was suppose to have, been IN the game at release."
The AC franchise was always known for its regular monthly content additions. I dont see false advertisement there.
" AC1 is still a popular MMORPG because it is a SKILL BASED game. The opposite of EQ. In AC players have more control over customizing their character. They are not automatically trapped in a template. When they are level 1 they do not know 100% for sure what skills they will have when they are level 25. IMHO this is far more realistic."
AC2 is very skill based. To claim otherwise shows ignorance towards the game mechanics.
"It's not so much that I don't care for AC2, it is more of a case of me making sure the Industry forever has AC2 held in front of their faces to prevent ANOTHER AC2."
I got news for you, every MMORPG that launches have almsot all the same growing pains that AC2 has.
SWG is full of bugs, Combat is being completly revamped, half the professions are broken, its has no content, etc etc etc and it has been out for 6 months.
Ao has been out for close to 3 years and was horrible for the first year and still has things missing today that were advertise on the box at launch. I remember the game being a ghost town after the first year with not enough players to for a team.
I could continue to name endless MMORPG launches that went horribly wrong, but it doesnt take a genious to understand that every MMORPG to date needed at least a year before it started to mature into some of its potential.
You say most AC2 players say AC2 has nice graphics and that is why its a good MMORPG, well Ill tell you why AC2 is presently the MMORPG I find the funnest to play....
It has the best combat system of any current MMORPG out in the market and the only one that is interactive enough that I dont have time to go AFK and watch TV while fighting!
I wrote up a long nicely worded post detailing escatly how you you were wrong in everysignle point you made, i then got completkly smnashed and dleted the whol theing, suffice to say, you suck.
I might write it up again when i sober up and i'll tell you exaclyt how you suck.
" Why would a company keep adding new content if the old content has not been used yet? BTW, AC2 is "falsly adverstising" its new content as new content LOL. Half of it should have, was suppose to have, been IN the game at release."
The AC franchise was always known for its regular monthly content additions. I dont see false advertisement there.
This is about AC2. It is a fact that when AC2 released it every single thing it was advertised to have.... was NOT present. It was all later added as "new" game content every month. LOL.
And yes AC1 was known for its monthly features. But AC1 is even more well known for the first 2 reasons I presented - close knit and nice player communtiy, and it being a skill based game instead of like EQ which is a level based game.
" AC1 is still a popular MMORPG because it is a SKILL BASED game. The opposite of EQ. In AC players have more control over customizing their character. They are not automatically trapped in a template. When they are level 1 they do not know 100% for sure what skills they will have when they are level 25. IMHO this is far more realistic."
AC2 is very skill based. To claim otherwise shows ignorance towards the game mechanics.
I was commenting on what made AC1 a success. And what STILL makes AC1 a success. Notice I did NOT mention AC2 in that quote.
BTW, AC2 is not a financial success. AC2 is tooo far from ever being a success.
"It's not so much that I don't care for AC2, it is more of a case of me making sure the Industry forever has AC2 held in front of their faces to prevent ANOTHER AC2."
I got news for you, every MMORPG that launches have almsot all the same growing pains that AC2 has.
Really? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release has...... 5,000 accounts? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release is not financially successfull?
If you can, then I am incorrect. If you can't then I am correct.
SWG is full of bugs, Combat is being completly revamped, half the professions are broken, its has no content, etc etc etc and it has been out for 6 months.
Ao has been out for close to 3 years and was horrible for the first year and still has things missing today that were advertise on the box at launch. I remember the game being a ghost town after the first year with not enough players to for a team.
I could continue to name endless MMORPG launches that went horribly wrong, but it doesnt take a genious to understand that every MMORPG to date needed at least a year before it started to mature into some of its potential.
1. SWG has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And it is a financial success and hasn't even been out for 1 year yet!
2. AO has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And was a financial success after it hit the 1 year mark.
This is not about MMORPG launches (which AC2 still holds the crown of having the worse ever launch out of any MMORPG.) This is about the FACT that after being out for 1 year, AC2 is d-y-i-n-g. After 1 year, AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to having 5,000 accounts! After 1 year, AC2 the uber New Modern MMORPG is doing far, far, worse than the old, acient MMORPGs!
Case closed.
You say most AC2 players say AC2 has nice graphics and that is why its a good MMORPG, well Ill tell you why AC2 is presently the MMORPG I find the funnest to play....
It has the best combat system of any current MMORPG out in the market and the only one that is interactive enough that I dont have time to go AFK and watch TV while fighting!
This is your opinion which is good and well. But Mr. Reality's opinion has more weight than your opinion, my opinion, and anyone else's opinion. According to Mr. Reality, AC2 is a dying to dead MMORPG. According to Mr. Reality AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to 1 year later having 5,000 accounts. That is a whooping 90% LOSS of its player base!!!!
BTW, SWG, and AO also have combat systems that require the player to pay attention and don't allow the player to go AFK and fix a sandwich or watch TV. Though I agree there are not many Tolkien-themed games that have improved combat systems. But with a ton of soon to be released new Tolkien-themed MMORPGs, this may change.
Originally posted by Xploror I speak from the stand point that includes the following:
1. What other AC2 players who CURRENTLY play have said. Both AC2 super-in-denial-fans as well as honest AC2 fans, as well as non AC2 fans.
2. What I personally experienced in Beta, release, and after release.
3. What mainstream media have said, and recorded.
4. What the AC2 game DEVs and AC2 press have said, posted, and recorded.
All these various sources have kept me fully informed about the past, present, and obvioius future of AC2. I understand the game very, very, well based on the above 4 primary sources.
Ok, let's go through your 'stand points':
1.) Experience from OTHERS. It's not yours, it's from OTHERS!! And funny thing is that all current players who are posting on this forum are saying that AC2 is great. And you conclude that game is bad?!?! Very stupid from you indeed.
Err... guy, have you been reading ALL the posts in these AC2 forums? Not "all" current AC2 players are saying AC2 is great. Not all current AC2 players are in denial about the fact AC2 one year after release lost 90% of its players. Not all current AC2 players, heck, not a single AC2 player...... has refuted the fact AC2 after being out 1 year is NOT a financial success.
2.) You haven't played the game for more than a year. You have absolutely no idea what does the game look like now. It's changed a lot in last 6 months since I've started playing. I can't even imagine how much it changed in whole last year. And you still think you can judge this game? Again, very stupid from you.
Show me the proof that I have not been playing AC2 for more than a year?
The game has only been out for roughly 1 year! LOL! I last played it 6 months ago LOL. As I have always posted.
3.) Again it's opinions from others. If ppl want to read media reviews they can by themselves. No need for you to quote media. And the media only reviewed AC2 at release. The game has changed enormously since then. Looks like another meaningless and useless source of information of AC2.
Obviously you have NOT read any of the facts, proofs, and evidence I have posted about AC2. Because they all have d-a-t-e-s on them. The most recent one is January 2004. Others are not only at release, but throughout the entire history of AC2. Stop talking/typing and catch up on your reading of the evidence.
4.) Info from DEVs and AC2 PRs?! I've never heard them saying or posting anything bad about AC2. And you're flaming this game all the time. I guess you're not reading info from AC2 DEVs and PRs after all. Or you just reverse everything they say. Stupid indeed.
1. I have never flamed AC2. A flame is starting trouble for no reason. Or posting information that cannot be backed up with evidence, proof, and facts.
2. Again, you need to stop typing and start catching up on your reading of the evidence, facts, and proof.
So your experience of AC2 is exactly 0 (zero, null, nada...) All you know about the current state of AC2 is from media. So you're just an average MMORPG fan whose only info of AC2 is from various websites and other media.
This is your opinion and also bad math. Since I actually played AC2 six months of its 1 year of being out, my ingame experience is more like 50%. Since CURRENT AC2 players have posted this brings my information up to date. Since RECENT press has been printed about AC2, this further brings my information up to date. If you fail to understand this then that is you. I am not necessarily posting here for you. I am here for the lurkers, as well as to keep waving AC2 in front of the MMORPG industry to keep another AC2 from happening.
My appeal is this: don't believe old reviews and general opinion about AC2. Game has changed a LOT since then and is still changing. It is getting better with each monthly update. Try Free 15 days trial. It's 100% free and you don't need credit card.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
This is your opinion and also bad math. Since I actually played AC2 six months of its 1 year of being out, my ingame experience is more like 50%. Since CURRENT AC2 players have posted this brings my information up to date. Since RECENT press has been printed about AC2, this further brings my information up to date. If you fail to understand this then that is you.
You're either dumb or you are lying. You've mentioned in one of your posts when exactly did you quit. I remember for sure that it was before I started. And I started in May 2003. So you haven't played for at least 9 months. And almost all the things you posted about AC2 from the time you've played have not been present in the game in last 9 months. Game has changed A LOT. So your experience is still exactly 0.
Originally posted by Xploror I am not necessarily posting here for you. I am here for the lurkers, as well as to keep waving AC2 in front of the MMORPG industry to keep another AC2 from happening.
Sure you're the great guru of MMORPGs and you're waving AC2 in the front of MMORPG industry!!! How self involved can you get. For me you're just a frustrated person who feels important by flaming AC2 without even your own experince of present state of the game.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
This is about AC2. It is a fact that when AC2 released it every single thing it was advertised to have.... was NOT present. It was all later added as "new" game content every month. LOL.
Please elaborate what was advertise on the box that was not ingame when the game launched that is not biased by an opinion.
I was commenting on what made AC1 a success. And what STILL makes AC1 a success. Notice I did NOT mention AC2 in that quote. BTW, AC2 is not a financial success. AC2 is tooo far from ever being a success.
I commented on the skill system and you reply to this point with whether its a financial success or not, wich is not the point I was arguing.
Really? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release has...... 5,000 accounts? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release is not financially successfull?If you can, then I am incorrect. If you can't then I am correct.
Where shall I start. Contrary to your beleive, I played two years+ of AO and AO was a ghost town after one year, even though it sold 50k accounts in the first week, after the one year mark towns would be deserted and the only place where you could find players was in Broken shores. AO started recovering from its launch after 15 months of retail and is considered the worst launch in history, in fact you couldnt even stay connected for more then 15-30 minutes at a time and would loose connection everytime you would zone(when soning wasnt down) for at least the first 2-3 months. No wonder they gave addionnal months free at first and game the Pionner backpack to compensate for the technical problems lol.
Want more examples, sure WW2 online, Motor city online, E&B, Shadowbane, shall I continue?
1. SWG has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And it is a financial success and hasn't even been out for 1 year yet! Again, I m not arguing wheter its a financial success or not, I am arguing the fact that every MMORPG that launched was not ready to be launched and has growing pains. If you played SWG or even now go read the development plan, you will see that they are re-writting all the major system such as combat and that after 6 months, half the profession have broken skills. Dont beleive me, go read up the development plan and go read what the players are saying. We dont know how many players SWG will have after a year, but you and I both know that they lost alot of account and alot of customers are not happy. 2. AO has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And was a financial success after it hit the 1 year mark. I dont see how you can confirm this since Funcom has always kept the number of accounts they add or how many players where active secret. However based on my experience, cause I was there playing the game, I know that the game was deserted for a long time. As I pointed out earlier, AO only started picking up after their first booster pack came out. Every single person from my first 3 guilds(50+ members per) quit the game in the first year. This is not about MMORPG launches (which AC2 still holds the crown of having the worse ever launch out of any MMORPG.) This is about the FACT that after being out for 1 year, AC2 is d-y-i-n-g. After 1 year, AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to having 5,000 accounts! After 1 year, AC2 the uber New Modern MMORPG is doing far, far, worse than the old, acient MMORPGs! I named some games further up that proves this statement to be fasle. True, AC2 has not picked up, but compare the amount of marketing that AO and SB has done in the first year with the amount of marketing MS has done for AC2 and its very easy to understand why. In fact, SB is not doing well at all presently is it? This is your opinion which is good and well. But Mr. Reality's opinion has more weight than your opinion, my opinion, and anyone else's opinion. According to Mr. Reality, AC2 is a dying to dead MMORPG. According to Mr. Reality AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to 1 year later having 5,000 accounts. That is a whooping 90% LOSS of its player base!!!! Its my opinnion and also the oppinion of those who are still playing AC2 and have tried other games. Again, the fact that the player base went down has nothing to do with combat. The main reason the population went down was mainly because of the chat issue and profession rebalancing(nerfing). It has nothing to do with how combat is exciting or not. BTW, SWG, and AO also have combat systems that require the player to pay attention and don't allow the player to go AFK and fix a sandwich or watch TV. Though I agree there are not many Tolkien-themed games that have improved combat systems. But with a ton of soon to be released new Tolkien-themed MMORPGs, this may change. Have you even played AO? Except for a few rare professions such as a doc, there is nothing for you do to except press a few special on a timer. Tough boss mobs required over 30 minutes of time to kill. I cant count how many times I went AFK while I was killing a mob in that game. Hell even at Tarasque, press Q go AFK come back when mob is dead. Try doing that in AC2 fighting Lord Deimos or a shreth. SWG, step 1, get a good ubese armor, step 2 get Doc buffs, step 3, get 2 dif 99 missions, step 4, stand on nest, step 5, start special spam macro, step 6 go AFK. I did the holo grind and got 16 professions done, I think I know pretty well how combat in SWG is presently. The only time I was able to go AFK while hunting in AC2 was when we could perch mobs wich is no longuer the case. The bottom line here, is I m not saying AC2 does not have problems or did not have problems in the past, but to deny things got better and the game is getting better and better every month, and denying the other MMORPG had their own growing pains is ludicrous. As far as a financial success goes, wich Ill talk about because you seem to emphasize that alot, it remains to be seen how it will do under the new owner and management, MS doesnt know how to market a MMORPG post launch as was proven with AC1. I have left AC2 twice since it came out, played the other MMORPG and went back, like many others, because AC2 is the funnest MMORPG to play presently. I dont know how the futur games will fair compared to AC2 and assuming they will do better, is just that, an assumption. I havent played Horizon, but I hear its not doing very good in the bug department.
Ander, it's quite pointless conversating with Xploror because no matter what you write he'll always reply with 'financial success' and number of accounts issues. I even tried opening special topic (this one) for these issues but he just doesn't want to use it and spams all over the forum.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
This is your opinion and also bad math. Since I actually played AC2 six months of its 1 year of being out, my ingame experience is more like 50%. Since CURRENT AC2 players have posted this brings my information up to date. Since RECENT press has been printed about AC2, this further brings my information up to date. If you fail to understand this then that is you.
You're either dumb or you are lying. You've mentioned in one of your posts when exactly did you quit. I remember for sure that it was before I started. And I started in May 2003. So you haven't played for at least 9 months. And almost all the things you posted about AC2 from the time you've played have not been present in the game in last 9 months. Game has changed A LOT. So your experience is still exactly 0.
I like how you ignore 2 out of the 3 items I showed that I use. You ignore the fact that current AC2 players have posted AC2 is a dying game. You ignore the fact that current press have made announcements about AC2.
We can argue all month long about when you think I last played AC2 and when I know I last played AC2. AC2 released by December 2002. I played for 6 months. I stopped by June 2003. Since the first time I posted this time has passed, and we are now in Febuary 2004, then it has been roughly 8 months since I last played AC2.
Last, I, and many other beta testers already SAID that eventually AC2 would get better. AC2 would sooner or later include all the features it was suppose to have launched with, and that it advertised it was suppose to have. BUT by then it would be TOOO LATE. Because tons of other next generation games would start getting released, or be about to get released.
Originally posted by Xploror I am not necessarily posting here for you. I am here for the lurkers, as well as to keep waving AC2 in front of the MMORPG industry to keep another AC2 from happening.
Sure you're the great guru of MMORPGs and you're waving AC2 in the front of MMORPG industry!!! How self involved can you get. For me you're just a frustrated person who feels important by flaming AC2 without even your own experince of present state of the game.
No I'm no guru. And if you want to see me as just a fustrated person who's only moment of feeling important is "flaming" AC2 go ahead.
- AC2 after being out for 1 year is a financial success..... true or false?
- AC2 after being out for 1 year lost 90% of its players..... true or false?
I, as a consumer, as a customer, as a MMORPG fan, as a gamer, do not like seeing shoddy products. Do not like seeing a game released 90% unfinnished. Do not like seeing a game that 1 year after release is no where near being a financial success. Do not like seeing a game lose 90% of its players after being out for 1 year.
I, as a consumer, now have the power of the internet to hold this up in front of the rest of the industry and say "Not every gamer is gullable to what you did, shape up, or word of mouth will be used as a tool to make sure you shape up."
With the internet hundreds to thousands of potiential consumers can be given second thoughts. It also makes it impossible for what happened with AC2 to be quietly swept under the rug.
Last, this is getting off track. This forum, this thread, is NOT about SWG, or AO, or any other MMORPG. BTW MotorCity Online has long since died. It was put out of its misery when it dropped to 20,000 accounts! There were still enough players for it to make a profit, but it would've taken a loooong time. And the company was not a multi-billion $$$ company that could wait around.
No matter how good or bad people think SWG and AO are, they all are, were, about to be, financial successes 1 year after release. They ALL, ALL, ALL, have far more than *sniff* 5,000 accounts even during their non-peak times heheheh. Even ShadowBane too!
AC2 is not a financial success after being out for more than 1 year. AC2 is no where close to being a financial success. AC2 is getting its butt stomped by OLD games. You, and others, have posted that "AC2 had bad marketing. MicroSoft does not know how to market and advertise a MMORPG". Incorrect. Part of developing a game, making a game, is marketing it. If a company does not know how to market their own game, it is their fault. It is part of game development failure. Also, IF the game is absolutly steller then word of mouth advertising will offset this.
With the power of the internet, word of mouth advertising is still the most powerfull form of advertising.
What will happen when the ultra new, modern games get released months from now?
You obviously cannot argue a point, because you keep coming back with the same argument.
Last, this is getting off track. This forum, this thread, is NOT about SWG, or AO, or any other MMORPG. BTW MotorCity Online has long since died.-by Xploror
So you say in your other post:
Really? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release has...... 5,000 accounts? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release is not financially successfull?If you can, then I am incorrect. If you can't then I am correct.-by Xploror
Since I can, you now tell me that we are off track because you cannot stand to be incorrect?
Financial issues seems to be your only argument. Since you really want to play with the question, do you have financial numbers to demonstrate your point other then your best guess at the number of accounts that are open?
Give us development cost, initial sales cost, marketing and distribution cost, monthly operation cost, etc.
Do you have any clue how the development cost of the Turbine engine was distributed accross Turbines projects, therefor alliviating the cost? Do you have any clue how much AC2 box sales amounted to compared to the development cost.
What was the cost to Microsoft and how much of that cost did they recuperate with the sale of the franchise back to Turbine?
Do you really think that Turbine would purchase a dying game as you call it? Do you think if it was not financially plausible they would purchase it?
I, as a consumer, as a customer, as a MMORPG fan, as a gamer, do not like seeing shoddy products. Do not like seeing a game released 90% unfinnished -by Xploror
Wake up man!
Can you understand the words that are being typed in this forums or are you so closed minded that you cannot see passed your sole argument of active accounts?
Every single MMORPG are not ready when they come out and could fall under the shoddy product category, you cannot pick on AC2 and stick up for any MMORPG because those companies have more people waiting for them to finish their game.
Read the AO box, log ingame and see how many features are missing after 3 years of retail as an example. But I know you dont care because as long as you think the company made money its ok to have an unfinished game over 3 years after launch.
You are just a AC2 hater that is running out of argument.
Be objective and realise that its a disease that is plaguing an industry.
Since I m not responsible for managing any online games, it comes down to the question of wich game is the funnest and that is AC2. I couldnt care less if they dont make a penny as long as I m having fun.
The company announced long term plans for AC2 with an expansion next year. So I guess they must have a financial plan to support the game for the forseable futur.
What will happen when the ultra new, modern games get released months from now?-by Xploror
The same thing is going to happen with those MMORPG. They will launch early, have a bunch of bugs, exploits and balance issues that will take 1+ year fixing and you will have gamers in the forum having the same debates about those games as the debate we are having now.
Do you know why? Its because that no company is willing to wait till a MMORPG is perfect before launching it, because every single one of them usually bust the development budget assigned to them and you got the suits that think like you and think only about making money.
xplororor knowledge about world comes from sci-fi books and SW films.
I tried to reason with him once but when he started about God and Angels being alien and aliens destroying our probes on the mars and landing on the moon I gave up.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
I tried to reason with him once but when he started about God and Angels being alien and aliens destroying our probes on the mars and landing on the moon I gave up.
Seems like someone watched to many reruns of Babylon5, either that or did too much acid
If any of you believe in Creation, or celebrate Christmas, go to Mass, etc... any religious holidays, then you believe in Aliens.
Was God born on earth? Did He spend his childhood on earth?
Were the Angels born on earth? Did they spend their childhood and teenage angel years frolocking on earth before they were full grown angles?
Was Satan (He does not have red skin, horns, or a pointy tail. He looks just like an angel because he IS an angel. A former good angel gone bad.) born on earth? Did he spend his childhood on earth?
Were the Demons (in reality, they do not have red skin, or horns. They look EXACTLY like Angels. They are simply good angels gone bad.) born on earth? Did they spend their childhood growing up on earth?
Yeeshh.... yeah I know, it's hard to think about something sooo easy.
Alien = Any sentient being, creature, species, living thing, that is NOT from Earth, born on earth.
Duh duh duh duh. Common sense.
BTW, notice at the start of the bible it says "Let's make man in OUR image." This means before the earth, before man, existed, there were tons of aliens already around. Be they Angels, or even possibly other creations. The Bible leaves room for God to have created other creations on other planets and in other galaxies.
Case closed.
=====================
If any of you believe in Evloution then case closed. You believe in Aliens.
If any of you believe in both Creation and Evloution then case closed. (The people who say God used evolution to create, etc....)
=====================
As for the US moon landing, simply talk to anyone who had a HAM radio back in the 1960's on the day of the moon landing. HAM radios are/were unique because they were able to tie into NASA's frequentcy and hear EVERYTHING. Even what NASA censored to the public. Neil Armstrong saw what was on the dark side of the moon. And he got a message which basically said "Get the F--- out of here you stupid humans you don't belong out here. This is our S---. Land here again and we will rape your A--!"
- Every MOON in the solar system ROTATES around whatever planet its in orbit. EXCEPT for one moon. Our moon. The dark side of the moon (yep Pink Floyd knows about what I am writting right now) always faces away from our planet.
- TWO of the moons of Mars suddently appeared out of nowhere, and started orbiting Mars in the late 1800's. These 2 same moons destroyed a Russian probe sent to check them out in the 1980's. (As was talked about on the Larry King Live show in the 1990's.) These 2 same moons have suddently dissappeared in late 2003.
- Right after their dissappearance, president Bush, who never had any intrest in expanding NASA's budget.... suddently annouces these mega grand plans not to just send more probes to Mars, but to send Man to Mars heheh. And to do it in 30 years!
Look at this closer..... I have said it is possible to RIGHT now send a man to Mars. And to terraform mars. Some have responded saying "But Bush said in 30 years!". I have replied back saying what super-new invention, or breakthrough will happen in the 29th year? Or the 28th year? Or the 10th year? The technology is present RIGHT NOW. The real problem is COOPERATION. Countries do not want to work together. And in just one country, the USA, it is hard to near impossible to get all the politicians to work together LOL.
- Travel to Mars takes an avarage of 6 to 7 months. Which is a skip and a hop in terms of space travel and space distances. (roughly 35 to 45 million miles.)
- Last, simply visit your local observatory and ask them about the 2 moon of Mars. Say "What's the story behind the 2 moons of mars? Are they still orbiting Mars?"
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Now back to our regularly schedualed subject Ladies and Gentlemen... AC2 aka Asheron's Call 2.
Here are my current points about AC2:
1. During beta, me, and other beta testers said, agreed, predicted, almost word for word that AC2 would eventually get better. That AC2 would eventually have most or all of the features it was suppose to have.
(Including the one feature that drew me to AC2 in the first place - Towns getting destroyed and rebuilt over and over and over.)
2. BUT no matter how much better AC2 woudl eventually get ( Here we all are 1 YEAR LATER ) it would bet TOOOO late. Proof? AC2 right now is getting the mess kocked out of it by OLD games. The wave of new games from the same generation as AC2 are about to get released soon.
SWG is not direct compeitition to AC2 because it is a Sci-Fi themed MMORPG while AC2 is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG. Horizions is the most recent direct competition. FFXI is more of the same generation of AO, DAoC, etc...
3. Right now AC2 has been out for roughly 1 year and 2 months. It has gone from having 50,000 accounts to roughly 5,000 accounts (and this is being conservative aka avaraging the numbers in FAVOR of AC2.). That is a whooping 90% LOSS of total players!
- SWG cost 25 million to make
- EQ2 cost 25 million to make
- EQ cost 5 million to make
- AC cost 5 million to make.
- RS (Runescape) cost 100,000 (One hundred thousand) to make.
What does SWG, EQ, and AC2 all have in common? All of them built from the ground up their own ultra modern, brand new, game engine. Since AC2 has never officially told how much their costs were, one can roughly tell based on SWG and EQ2 that AC2 cost roughly 25 million to make. 20 million solid.
I have gone faaarrr out on a limb and even said lets use 15 million hehehh. Though I personally believe 20 million is more correct.
At 5,000 accounts AC2 will never ever break even. AC2 must reach 25,000 accounts just to even THINK about breaking even. 50,000 accounts to breath easy. And 100,000 accounts to be a bona fid success. See how far away AC2 is from being financially successful?
4. Many AC2 fans agree with me. They have since left the game, spending their money and irreplaceable TIME in other MMORPGs that are not dying. AC2 fanboys are a different story. They are in denial, or they are sadiomachochists. They enjoy what they see as a "challenge". Turning AC2 around is not a challenge. It is an impossible challenge, soon to be even more impossible when EQ2, WoW, and tons of others release.
AC2 fanboys will say "Yep, even we can't deny AC2 is not financially successfull. Though some of us even tried to until XplOrOrOr visited this site and challenged us to prove it. But, we still have loads of fun paying a monthly subscription to a dying MMORPG game!"
To them and this I say, Noooo problem. It is your money, it is your irreplaceable time. As long as you are making an INFORMED DECISION then feel free to play AC2 forever and play them your money every month. And give them your time. Just do not be surprised when AC2 goest the same way as Motor City Online. And MCO had roughly 20,000 accounts when it got put out of its misery!
BUT do not keep ALL the information about AC2 away from the lurkers, newbies, new posters, and possible new MMORPG players. Allow all of them to also be able to make THEIR OWN I-N-F-O-R-M-E-D DECISION... after they are first presented with all the facts, history, proofs, and information on AC2.
5. Yes ALL MMORPGs have released incompleted. But NONE of them have released 90% UNFINNISHED. There are different levels of incompleatness.
- EQ - Was roughly 80% finnished at release.
- AC - Was roughly 80% finnished at release.
- RS - Was roughly 90% finnished at release.
- DAoC - Was roughly 90% finnished at release. (Many say closer to 95% and holds the crown as MMORPG closest to being 100.100% finnished at release)
- SB - Was roughly 75% finnished at release.
- AO - Was roughly 80% finnished at release. (Yes it was 90% UNPLAYABLE but it was from 1 bug which was a sever memory leak which gamers TOLD Funcom about but Funcom denied it LOL until they were forced to admit it is possible for a gamer to know something a game DEV does not know.)
- WW2 Online - Was roughly 50% finnished at release. (The game just wasn't done being programmed LOL!) 1 year after release it got better, and definatly has more than 5,000 accounts.
- SWG - Was roughly 85% finnished at release. (Just 2 professions out of roughly 35 professions were incompleated. It was already announced looong before release that Player mounts, Player cities, Player vehicles would NOT be in the game at release. But there were some incompleated missions, game bugs, exploits, etc... Though the game was playable and enjoyable except for the very first day of release.)
- AC2 - Was roughly 10% finnished at release. An Exploiter's paradise. Players accidently discovered there was NO highend game what-so-ever. All the stuff advertised in magaizine ads, on the game box, at the site, were NOT in the game. This led to 90% of the players leaving.
Anarchy Online held the title as worse ever game launch. AO has since recovered. It still bears its scar though.
World War 2 Online then took the title as worse ever game launch. WW2O has gradually recovered.
Asheron's Call 2 then snatched the title as worse ever game launch in history. AC2 has never recovered, nor come close to recovering.
So again, all MMORPGs have been released unfinnished. But there are different levels of being unfinnished. Not a single MMORPG has been released with absolutly no high-end game. NOt a single MMORPG has been released with none of the things adviertised to be in it... not in it. Not a single MMORPG has lost 90% of its players. Heck even MCO only lost roughly 50% of its players before it was put out of its misery.
AC2 right now - It is at the point where it was SUPPOSE to have been at when it released. Except right now the players are missing. The game itself I fully agree has outstanding graphics, NICE dungeons, still wimpy character customization and character choices, but nice game engine.
Why does no one play this game? Because the majority of gamers, consumers, customers, like me, are sending the industry a message with their wallets and pocketbooks.
The message is this:
Yes all of us MMORGP gamers have accepted past MMORPGs in an unfinnished state. Yes we have given them our monthly subscriptions, and irreplaceable time. BUT unline AC2, past MMORPGs, and current MMORPGs have been 50% FINNISHED at the least, and 90% or more FINNISHED at the most.
AC2 was released the most unfinnished MMORPG in history. If the majority of us gamers were to support AC2 we would be sending the industry the WRONG message that it's ok to lower standards even more. This message is even more for other MMORPG game DEVs! To other MMORPG game DEVs, you better make the effort! Or else you will also end up like AC2 Muhahahahaaaaaa!
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So folks, AC2 fans, non-fans, fanboys, non-fanboys, lurkers, non-lurkers, this is the main theme and underlying message surrounding AC2.
I wont comment on everything you say, because, well, I already argued all those points before and its a question of opinnion, wich we are both allowed to have.
I have issues with AC2 as well, but my point is I dont have more issues with AC2 then I have with other MMORPG.
I m not an AC2 fanboi, I m only objective over the whole situation. As far as Im concerned, I m having fun in AC2, therefor its not a waste of money for me or anyone else that is having fun. If however the only reason you pay an account is to wait for them to come out with features and bring the game to the point you think it should be and your not having fun, then yeah you are wasting money.
Ill jsut repeat this again, the number one reason AC2 lost so many players is because of the chat problems they had. When you cant communicate with your friends, you feel alone and get bored.
The bottom line is this, AC2 got alot better since september and the upcoming dev schedule looks promising as well even if its way overdue. New players join and old players come back, some leave.
With that being said, Ill leave you with your opinnions and keep mine.
I advise anyone that wants to try the game and make their own opinnion, to download the free trial and level to 25 to get to know the game before forming an opinnion.
As far as I m concerned, Ill continue paying Turbine to play their game as long as I enjoy it, because that is what is important in the end from a customers point of view, being entertained
Originally posted by xplororor Heh, this is too funny. If any of you believe in Creation, or celebrate Christmas, go to Mass, etc... any religious holidays, then you believe in Aliens. Was God born on earth? Did He spend his childhood on earth? Were the Angels born on earth? Did they spend their childhood and teenage angel years frolocking on earth before they were full grown angles? Was Satan (He does not have red skin, horns, or a pointy tail. He looks just like an angel because he IS an angel. A former good angel gone bad.) born on earth? Did he spend his childhood on earth? . . .
I tried to read your post but I gave up here. I see you have a very vivid imagination which is a good thing. But careful: don't try to convince other ppl to enter your fantasy world cause they'll laugh at you.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
I tried to read your post but I gave up here. I see you have a very vivid imagination which is a good thing. But careful: don't try to convince other ppl to enter your fantasy world cause they'll laugh at you.
He doesnt have that much a vivid imagination since he practically described the firstones/shadow/vorlon story arc to the bablyon5 series mixed up with a few more sci-fi story arcs.
As Red Foreman would say...
That kid is on Dope!
Oh and FYI, I recommend you pickup a dictionnary xploror and look up the word alien.
"A Vorlon once said 'Understanding is a three edged sword'. Your side, their side, and the truth. The truth is, we don't need you any more"
Originally posted by xplororor Heh, this is too funny. If any of you believe in Creation, or celebrate Christmas, go to Mass, etc... any religious holidays, then you believe in Aliens. Was God born on earth? Did He spend his childhood on earth? Were the Angels born on earth? Did they spend their childhood and teenage angel years frolocking on earth before they were full grown angles? Was Satan (He does not have red skin, horns, or a pointy tail. He looks just like an angel because he IS an angel. A former good angel gone bad.) born on earth? Did he spend his childhood on earth? . . .
I tried to read your post but I gave up here. I see you have a very vivid imagination which is a good thing. But careful: don't try to convince other ppl to enter your fantasy world cause they'll laugh at you.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
Imagination? Fanstasy? You exist. I exist. Our world, planet, solar system, galaxy, and other galaxies exist.
-> Well what do YOU believe in? YOU either believe in Creation or Evolution. <-
The rest is self explanitory. I know, too much food for thought. Most people go through life not facing for sure what they believe in.... until they are on their death bed.
I tried to read your post but I gave up here. I see you have a very vivid imagination which is a good thing. But careful: don't try to convince other ppl to enter your fantasy world cause they'll laugh at you.
He doesnt have that much a vivid imagination since he practically described the firstones/shadow/vorlon story arc to the bablyon5 series mixed up with a few more sci-fi story arcs.
As Red Foreman would say...
That kid is on Dope!
Eh guy, it is the other way around, many modern media, from movies, to songs, to TV shows, etc.... all use as some, or all, or pieces, of their source material the Bible, and other religious books, and religious stories. As well as ancient stories, and tales.
And I never said it came from me. LOL.
You are simply in denial.... until one day you find yourself on your deathbed then you will be forced to think about what I posted.
-> Well... do YOU believe in Creation or Evolution? <-
Or are you trying to run away from this question? In denial?
Oh and FYI, I recommend you pickup a dictionnary xploror and look up the word alien.
"A Vorlon once said 'Understanding is a three edged sword'. Your side, their side, and the truth. The truth is, we don't need you any more"
First of all if you want to talk about God - read some bible (Old Testament mainly that will introduce to christian, jewish and muslim faith).
God is not a creature that fly in sourcer and has green skin. God can not be named or described. God is not from this world (planet/galaxy/universe <put anything what describe our world here>). He created this world you and aliens if they exist. He is not an alien, has no form, he is not what we humans define as lifeform. He is pure perfection source of everything in the world.
"I AM THAT I AM." said God to Moses.
You simply have no idea when you talk about God, your knowledge about God comes from TV, if you want to find out more go and speak to priest before you lie on deathbed.
I do not say I belive in God, I have grown up in religious family and have my share of knowledge about religion and God.
Do you belive in creation or evolution? I have a feeling you dont know in what to belive, hopefully one day you may find your way.
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
============================== And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this: * If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger * If there is a number, make it higher * If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
Originally posted by xplororor -> Well what do YOU believe in? YOU either believe in Creation or Evolution. <- The rest is self explanitory. I know, too much food for thought. Most people go through life not facing for sure what they believe in.... until they are on their death bed.
Actually it must be too much food for your mind so you simplified it and decided for only 2 cathegories.
I believe in many things but none of the above. I thought you might have some simplified and cathegorized view of the world and I was right. Try expanding your horizons a bit (not with science fiction) and you'll eventually find out that nothing is just black or white. There's alot of grey....
But this is not the place for this discussion.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
You are simply in denial.... until one day you find yourself on your deathbed then you will be forced to think about what I posted.
-> Well... do YOU believe in Creation or Evolution? <-
To quote the movie DOGMA(well not exact quote): Its much better to have an idea then a beleif because they are easier to change. People go to war over beleifs.
When I m on my death bed, Ill probably reflect on the good and bad times of my life. Im certainly not gonna make plans for my afterlife , that would be like making plans after buying a lottery ticket.
Now, back to AC2 topic, enough about religion and war, and please dont start on politics() in your next post
Comments
What will he do next?
Ok, let's go through your 'stand points':
1.) Experience from OTHERS. It's not yours, it's from OTHERS!! And funny thing is that all current players who are posting on this forum are saying that AC2 is great. And you conclude that game is bad?!?! Very stupid from you indeed.
2.) You haven't played the game for more than a year. You have absolutely no idea what does the game look like now. It's changed a lot in last 6 months since I've started playing. I can't even imagine how much it changed in whole last year. And you still think you can judge this game? Again, very stupid from you.
3.) Again it's opinions from others. If ppl want to read media reviews they can by themselves. No need for you to quote media. And the media only reviewed AC2 at release. The game has changed enormously since then. Looks like another meaningless and useless source of information of AC2.
4.) Info from DEVs and AC2 PRs?! I've never heard them saying or posting anything bad about AC2. And you're flaming this game all the time. I guess you're not reading info from AC2 DEVs and PRs after all. Or you just reverse everything they say. Stupid indeed.
So your experience of AC2 is exactly 0 (zero, null, nada...)
All you know about the current state of AC2 is from media. So you're just an average MMORPG fan whose only info of AC2 is from various websites and other media.
My appeal is this: don't believe old reviews and general opinion about AC2. Game has changed a LOT since then and is still changing. It is getting better with each monthly update. Try Free 15 days trial. It's 100% free and you don't need credit card.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
" Why would a company keep adding new content if the old content has not been used yet? BTW, AC2 is "falsly adverstising" its new content as new content LOL. Half of it should have, was suppose to have, been IN the game at release."
The AC franchise was always known for its regular monthly content additions. I dont see false advertisement there.
" AC1 is still a popular MMORPG because it is a SKILL BASED game. The opposite of EQ. In AC players have more control over customizing their character. They are not automatically trapped in a template. When they are level 1 they do not know 100% for sure what skills they will have when they are level 25. IMHO this is far more realistic."
AC2 is very skill based. To claim otherwise shows ignorance towards the game mechanics.
"It's not so much that I don't care for AC2, it is more of a case of me making sure the Industry forever has AC2 held in front of their faces to prevent ANOTHER AC2."
I got news for you, every MMORPG that launches have almsot all the same growing pains that AC2 has.
SWG is full of bugs, Combat is being completly revamped, half the professions are broken, its has no content, etc etc etc and it has been out for 6 months.
Ao has been out for close to 3 years and was horrible for the first year and still has things missing today that were advertise on the box at launch. I remember the game being a ghost town after the first year with not enough players to for a team.
I could continue to name endless MMORPG launches that went horribly wrong, but it doesnt take a genious to understand that every MMORPG to date needed at least a year before it started to mature into some of its potential.
You say most AC2 players say AC2 has nice graphics and that is why its a good MMORPG, well Ill tell you why AC2 is presently the MMORPG I find the funnest to play....
It has the best combat system of any current MMORPG out in the market and the only one that is interactive enough that I dont have time to go AFK and watch TV while fighting!
I wrote up a long nicely worded post detailing escatly how you you were wrong in everysignle point you made, i then got completkly smnashed and dleted the whol theing, suffice to say, you suck.
I might write it up again when i sober up and i'll tell you exaclyt how you suck.
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
Sure you're the great guru of MMORPGs and you're waving AC2 in the front of MMORPG industry!!!How self involved can you get. For me you're just a frustrated person who feels important by flaming AC2 without even your own experince of present state of the game.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
This is about AC2. It is a fact that when AC2 released it every single thing it was advertised to have.... was NOT present. It was all later added as "new" game content every month. LOL.
Please elaborate what was advertise on the box that was not ingame when the game launched that is not biased by an opinion.
I was commenting on what made AC1 a success. And what STILL makes AC1 a success. Notice I did NOT mention AC2 in that quote. BTW, AC2 is not a financial success. AC2 is tooo far from ever being a success.
I commented on the skill system and you reply to this point with whether its a financial success or not, wich is not the point I was arguing.
Really? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release has...... 5,000 accounts? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release is not financially successfull?If you can, then I am incorrect. If you can't then I am correct.
Where shall I start. Contrary to your beleive, I played two years+ of AO and AO was a ghost town after one year, even though it sold 50k accounts in the first week, after the one year mark towns would be deserted and the only place where you could find players was in Broken shores. AO started recovering from its launch after 15 months of retail and is considered the worst launch in history, in fact you couldnt even stay connected for more then 15-30 minutes at a time and would loose connection everytime you would zone(when soning wasnt down) for at least the first 2-3 months. No wonder they gave addionnal months free at first and game the Pionner backpack to compensate for the technical problems lol.
Want more examples, sure WW2 online, Motor city online, E&B, Shadowbane, shall I continue?
1. SWG has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And it is a financial success and hasn't even been out for 1 year yet!
Again, I m not arguing wheter its a financial success or not, I am arguing the fact that every MMORPG that launched was not ready to be launched and has growing pains. If you played SWG or even now go read the development plan, you will see that they are re-writting all the major system such as combat and that after 6 months, half the profession have broken skills. Dont beleive me, go read up the development plan and go read what the players are saying. We dont know how many players SWG will have after a year, but you and I both know that they lost alot of account and alot of customers are not happy.
2. AO has far more than 5,000 accounts LOLOL! And was a financial success after it hit the 1 year mark.
I dont see how you can confirm this since Funcom has always kept the number of accounts they add or how many players where active secret. However based on my experience, cause I was there playing the game, I know that the game was deserted for a long time. As I pointed out earlier, AO only started picking up after their first booster pack came out. Every single person from my first 3 guilds(50+ members per) quit the game in the first year.
This is not about MMORPG launches (which AC2 still holds the crown of having the worse ever launch out of any MMORPG.) This is about the FACT that after being out for 1 year, AC2 is d-y-i-n-g. After 1 year, AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to having 5,000 accounts! After 1 year, AC2 the uber New Modern MMORPG is doing far, far, worse than the old, acient MMORPGs!
I named some games further up that proves this statement to be fasle. True, AC2 has not picked up, but compare the amount of marketing that AO and SB has done in the first year with the amount of marketing MS has done for AC2 and its very easy to understand why. In fact, SB is not doing well at all presently is it?
This is your opinion which is good and well. But Mr. Reality's opinion has more weight than your opinion, my opinion, and anyone else's opinion. According to Mr. Reality, AC2 is a dying to dead MMORPG. According to Mr. Reality AC2 went from having 50,000 accounts to 1 year later having 5,000 accounts. That is a whooping 90% LOSS of its player base!!!!
Its my opinnion and also the oppinion of those who are still playing AC2 and have tried other games. Again, the fact that the player base went down has nothing to do with combat. The main reason the population went down was mainly because of the chat issue and profession rebalancing(nerfing). It has nothing to do with how combat is exciting or not.
BTW, SWG, and AO also have combat systems that require the player to pay attention and don't allow the player to go AFK and fix a sandwich or watch TV. Though I agree there are not many Tolkien-themed games that have improved combat systems. But with a ton of soon to be released new Tolkien-themed MMORPGs, this may change.
Have you even played AO? Except for a few rare professions such as a doc, there is nothing for you do to except press a few special on a timer. Tough boss mobs required over 30 minutes of time to kill. I cant count how many times I went AFK while I was killing a mob in that game. Hell even at Tarasque, press Q go AFK come back when mob is dead. Try doing that in AC2 fighting Lord Deimos or a shreth.
SWG, step 1, get a good ubese armor, step 2 get Doc buffs, step 3, get 2 dif 99 missions, step 4, stand on nest, step 5, start special spam macro, step 6 go AFK. I did the holo grind and got 16 professions done, I think I know pretty well how combat in SWG is presently.
The only time I was able to go AFK while hunting in AC2 was when we could perch mobs wich is no longuer the case.
The bottom line here, is I m not saying AC2 does not have problems or did not have problems in the past, but to deny things got better and the game is getting better and better every month, and denying the other MMORPG had their own growing pains is ludicrous.
As far as a financial success goes, wich Ill talk about because you seem to emphasize that alot, it remains to be seen how it will do under the new owner and management, MS doesnt know how to market a MMORPG post launch as was proven with AC1.
I have left AC2 twice since it came out, played the other MMORPG and went back, like many others, because AC2 is the funnest MMORPG to play presently.
I dont know how the futur games will fair compared to AC2 and assuming they will do better, is just that, an assumption. I havent played Horizon, but I hear its not doing very good in the bug department.
Ander, it's quite pointless conversating with Xploror because no matter what you write he'll always reply with 'financial success' and number of accounts issues. I even tried opening special topic (this one) for these issues but he just doesn't want to use it and spams all over the forum.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
You obviously cannot argue a point, because you keep coming back with the same argument.
Last, this is getting off track. This forum, this thread, is NOT about SWG, or AO, or any other MMORPG. BTW MotorCity Online has long since died.-by Xploror
So you say in your other post:
Really? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release has...... 5,000 accounts? Name me any other MMORPG that 1 year after release is not financially successfull?If you can, then I am incorrect. If you can't then I am correct.-by Xploror
Since I can, you now tell me that we are off track because you cannot stand to be incorrect?
Financial issues seems to be your only argument. Since you really want to play with the question, do you have financial numbers to demonstrate your point other then your best guess at the number of accounts that are open?
Give us development cost, initial sales cost, marketing and distribution cost, monthly operation cost, etc.
Do you have any clue how the development cost of the Turbine engine was distributed accross Turbines projects, therefor alliviating the cost? Do you have any clue how much AC2 box sales amounted to compared to the development cost.
What was the cost to Microsoft and how much of that cost did they recuperate with the sale of the franchise back to Turbine?
Do you really think that Turbine would purchase a dying game as you call it? Do you think if it was not financially plausible they would purchase it?
I, as a consumer, as a customer, as a MMORPG fan, as a gamer, do not like seeing shoddy products. Do not like seeing a game released 90% unfinnished -by Xploror
Wake up man!
Can you understand the words that are being typed in this forums or are you so closed minded that you cannot see passed your sole argument of active accounts?
Every single MMORPG are not ready when they come out and could fall under the shoddy product category, you cannot pick on AC2 and stick up for any MMORPG because those companies have more people waiting for them to finish their game.
Read the AO box, log ingame and see how many features are missing after 3 years of retail as an example. But I know you dont care because as long as you think the company made money its ok to have an unfinished game over 3 years after launch.
You are just a AC2 hater that is running out of argument.
Be objective and realise that its a disease that is plaguing an industry.
Since I m not responsible for managing any online games, it comes down to the question of wich game is the funnest and that is AC2. I couldnt care less if they dont make a penny as long as I m having fun.
The company announced long term plans for AC2 with an expansion next year. So I guess they must have a financial plan to support the game for the forseable futur.
What will happen when the ultra new, modern games get released months from now?-by Xploror
The same thing is going to happen with those MMORPG. They will launch early, have a bunch of bugs, exploits and balance issues that will take 1+ year fixing and you will have gamers in the forum having the same debates about those games as the debate we are having now.
Do you know why? Its because that no company is willing to wait till a MMORPG is perfect before launching it, because every single one of them usually bust the development budget assigned to them and you got the suits that think like you and think only about making money.
Lol Xploror. Can you write about anything else than number of accounts and financial success?
I guess not....
Oh wait... Maybe you can. You've written something about aliens visiting the moon in one of your posts.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
Oh wait... Maybe you can. You've written something about aliens visiting the moon in one of your posts.
LOL, well if the americans did land on the moon, they would of been aliens to the moon, so guess he is right :P
xplororor knowledge about world comes from sci-fi books and SW films.
I tried to reason with him once but when he started about God and Angels being alien and aliens destroying our probes on the mars and landing on the moon I gave up.
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And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
I tried to reason with him once but when he started about God and Angels being alien and aliens destroying our probes on the mars and landing on the moon I gave up.
Seems like someone watched to many reruns of Babylon5, either that or did too much acid
Heh, this is too funny.
If any of you believe in Creation, or celebrate Christmas, go to Mass, etc... any religious holidays, then you believe in Aliens.
Was God born on earth? Did He spend his childhood on earth?
Were the Angels born on earth? Did they spend their childhood and teenage angel years frolocking on earth before they were full grown angles?
Was Satan (He does not have red skin, horns, or a pointy tail. He looks just like an angel because he IS an angel. A former good angel gone bad.) born on earth? Did he spend his childhood on earth?
Were the Demons (in reality, they do not have red skin, or horns. They look EXACTLY like Angels. They are simply good angels gone bad.) born on earth? Did they spend their childhood growing up on earth?
Yeeshh.... yeah I know, it's hard to think about something sooo easy.
Alien = Any sentient being, creature, species, living thing, that is NOT from Earth, born on earth.
Duh duh duh duh. Common sense.
BTW, notice at the start of the bible it says "Let's make man in OUR image." This means before the earth, before man, existed, there were tons of aliens already around. Be they Angels, or even possibly other creations. The Bible leaves room for God to have created other creations on other planets and in other galaxies.
Case closed.
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If any of you believe in Evloution then case closed. You believe in Aliens.
If any of you believe in both Creation and Evloution then case closed. (The people who say God used evolution to create, etc....)
=====================
As for the US moon landing, simply talk to anyone who had a HAM radio back in the 1960's on the day of the moon landing. HAM radios are/were unique because they were able to tie into NASA's frequentcy and hear EVERYTHING. Even what NASA censored to the public. Neil Armstrong saw what was on the dark side of the moon. And he got a message which basically said "Get the F--- out of here you stupid humans you don't belong out here. This is our S---. Land here again and we will rape your A--!"
- Every MOON in the solar system ROTATES around whatever planet its in orbit. EXCEPT for one moon. Our moon. The dark side of the moon (yep Pink Floyd knows about what I am writting right now) always faces away from our planet.
- TWO of the moons of Mars suddently appeared out of nowhere, and started orbiting Mars in the late 1800's. These 2 same moons destroyed a Russian probe sent to check them out in the 1980's. (As was talked about on the Larry King Live show in the 1990's.) These 2 same moons have suddently dissappeared in late 2003.
- Right after their dissappearance, president Bush, who never had any intrest in expanding NASA's budget.... suddently annouces these mega grand plans not to just send more probes to Mars, but to send Man to Mars heheh. And to do it in 30 years!
Look at this closer..... I have said it is possible to RIGHT now send a man to Mars. And to terraform mars. Some have responded saying "But Bush said in 30 years!". I have replied back saying what super-new invention, or breakthrough will happen in the 29th year? Or the 28th year? Or the 10th year? The technology is present RIGHT NOW. The real problem is COOPERATION. Countries do not want to work together. And in just one country, the USA, it is hard to near impossible to get all the politicians to work together LOL.
- Travel to Mars takes an avarage of 6 to 7 months. Which is a skip and a hop in terms of space travel and space distances. (roughly 35 to 45 million miles.)
- Last, simply visit your local observatory and ask them about the 2 moon of Mars. Say "What's the story behind the 2 moons of mars? Are they still orbiting Mars?"
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Now back to our regularly schedualed subject Ladies and Gentlemen... AC2 aka Asheron's Call 2.
Here are my current points about AC2:
1. During beta, me, and other beta testers said, agreed, predicted, almost word for word that AC2 would eventually get better. That AC2 would eventually have most or all of the features it was suppose to have.
(Including the one feature that drew me to AC2 in the first place - Towns getting destroyed and rebuilt over and over and over.)
2. BUT no matter how much better AC2 woudl eventually get ( Here we all are 1 YEAR LATER ) it would bet TOOOO late. Proof? AC2 right now is getting the mess kocked out of it by OLD games. The wave of new games from the same generation as AC2 are about to get released soon.
SWG is not direct compeitition to AC2 because it is a Sci-Fi themed MMORPG while AC2 is a Tolkien-themed MMORPG. Horizions is the most recent direct competition. FFXI is more of the same generation of AO, DAoC, etc...
3. Right now AC2 has been out for roughly 1 year and 2 months. It has gone from having 50,000 accounts to roughly 5,000 accounts (and this is being conservative aka avaraging the numbers in FAVOR of AC2.). That is a whooping 90% LOSS of total players!
- SWG cost 25 million to make
- EQ2 cost 25 million to make
- EQ cost 5 million to make
- AC cost 5 million to make.
- RS (Runescape) cost 100,000 (One hundred thousand) to make.
What does SWG, EQ, and AC2 all have in common? All of them built from the ground up their own ultra modern, brand new, game engine. Since AC2 has never officially told how much their costs were, one can roughly tell based on SWG and EQ2 that AC2 cost roughly 25 million to make. 20 million solid.
I have gone faaarrr out on a limb and even said lets use 15 million hehehh. Though I personally believe 20 million is more correct.
At 5,000 accounts AC2 will never ever break even. AC2 must reach 25,000 accounts just to even THINK about breaking even. 50,000 accounts to breath easy. And 100,000 accounts to be a bona fid success. See how far away AC2 is from being financially successful?
4. Many AC2 fans agree with me. They have since left the game, spending their money and irreplaceable TIME in other MMORPGs that are not dying. AC2 fanboys are a different story. They are in denial, or they are sadiomachochists. They enjoy what they see as a "challenge". Turning AC2 around is not a challenge. It is an impossible challenge, soon to be even more impossible when EQ2, WoW, and tons of others release.
AC2 fanboys will say "Yep, even we can't deny AC2 is not financially successfull. Though some of us even tried to until XplOrOrOr visited this site and challenged us to prove it.
But, we still have loads of fun paying a monthly subscription to a dying MMORPG game!"
To them and this I say, Noooo problem. It is your money, it is your irreplaceable time. As long as you are making an INFORMED DECISION then feel free to play AC2 forever
and play them your money every month. And give them your time. Just do not be surprised when AC2 goest the same way as Motor City Online. 
And MCO had roughly 20,000 accounts when it got put out of its misery!
BUT do not keep ALL the information about AC2 away from the lurkers, newbies, new posters, and possible new MMORPG players. Allow all of them to also be able to make THEIR OWN I-N-F-O-R-M-E-D DECISION... after they are first presented with all the facts, history, proofs, and information on AC2.
5. Yes ALL MMORPGs have released incompleted. But NONE of them have released 90% UNFINNISHED. There are different levels of incompleatness.
- EQ - Was roughly 80% finnished at release.
- AC - Was roughly 80% finnished at release.
- RS - Was roughly 90% finnished at release.
- DAoC - Was roughly 90% finnished at release. (Many say closer to 95% and holds the crown as MMORPG closest to being 100.100% finnished at release)
- SB - Was roughly 75% finnished at release.
- AO - Was roughly 80% finnished at release. (Yes it was 90% UNPLAYABLE but it was from 1 bug which was a sever memory leak which gamers TOLD Funcom about but Funcom denied it LOL until they were forced to admit it is possible for a gamer to know something a game DEV does not know.)
- WW2 Online - Was roughly 50% finnished at release. (The game just wasn't done being programmed LOL!) 1 year after release it got better, and definatly has more than 5,000 accounts.
- SWG - Was roughly 85% finnished at release. (Just 2 professions out of roughly 35 professions were incompleated. It was already announced looong before release that Player mounts, Player cities, Player vehicles would NOT be in the game at release. But there were some incompleated missions, game bugs, exploits, etc... Though the game was playable and enjoyable except for the very first day of release.)
- AC2 - Was roughly 10% finnished at release. An Exploiter's paradise. Players accidently discovered there was NO highend game what-so-ever. All the stuff advertised in magaizine ads, on the game box, at the site, were NOT in the game. This led to 90% of the players leaving.
Anarchy Online held the title as worse ever game launch. AO has since recovered. It still bears its scar though.
World War 2 Online then took the title as worse ever game launch. WW2O has gradually recovered.
Asheron's Call 2 then snatched the title as worse ever game launch in history. AC2 has never recovered, nor come close to recovering.
So again, all MMORPGs have been released unfinnished. But there are different levels of being unfinnished. Not a single MMORPG has been released with absolutly no high-end game. NOt a single MMORPG has been released with none of the things adviertised to be in it... not in it. Not a single MMORPG has lost 90% of its players. Heck even MCO only lost roughly 50% of its players before it was put out of its misery.
AC2 right now - It is at the point where it was SUPPOSE to have been at when it released. Except right now the players are missing. The game itself I fully agree has outstanding graphics, NICE dungeons, still wimpy character customization and character choices, but nice game engine.
Why does no one play this game? Because the majority of gamers, consumers, customers, like me, are sending the industry a message with their wallets and pocketbooks.
The message is this:
Yes all of us MMORGP gamers have accepted past MMORPGs in an unfinnished state. Yes we have given them our monthly subscriptions, and irreplaceable time. BUT unline AC2, past MMORPGs, and current MMORPGs have been 50% FINNISHED at the least, and 90% or more FINNISHED at the most.
AC2 was released the most unfinnished MMORPG in history. If the majority of us gamers were to support AC2 we would be sending the industry the WRONG message that it's ok to lower standards even more. This message is even more for other MMORPG game DEVs! To other MMORPG game DEVs, you better make the effort! Or else you will also end up like AC2 Muhahahahaaaaaa!
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So folks, AC2 fans, non-fans, fanboys, non-fanboys, lurkers, non-lurkers, this is the main theme and underlying message surrounding AC2.
(Whoah! that's cool! A smile wave!!! Heheheh.)
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
I wont comment on everything you say, because, well, I already argued all those points before and its a question of opinnion, wich we are both allowed to have.
I have issues with AC2 as well, but my point is I dont have more issues with AC2 then I have with other MMORPG.
I m not an AC2 fanboi, I m only objective over the whole situation. As far as Im concerned, I m having fun in AC2, therefor its not a waste of money for me or anyone else that is having fun. If however the only reason you pay an account is to wait for them to come out with features and bring the game to the point you think it should be and your not having fun, then yeah you are wasting money.
Ill jsut repeat this again, the number one reason AC2 lost so many players is because of the chat problems they had. When you cant communicate with your friends, you feel alone and get bored.
The bottom line is this, AC2 got alot better since september and the upcoming dev schedule looks promising as well even if its way overdue. New players join and old players come back, some leave.
With that being said, Ill leave you with your opinnions and keep mine.
I advise anyone that wants to try the game and make their own opinnion, to download the free trial and level to 25 to get to know the game before forming an opinnion.
As far as I m concerned, Ill continue paying Turbine to play their game as long as I enjoy it, because that is what is important in the end from a customers point of view, being entertained
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
I tried to read your post but I gave up here. I see you have a very vivid imagination which is a good thing. But careful: don't try to convince other ppl to enter your fantasy world cause they'll laugh at you.
He doesnt have that much a vivid imagination since he practically described the firstones/shadow/vorlon story arc to the bablyon5 series mixed up with a few more sci-fi story arcs.
As Red Foreman would say...
That kid is on Dope!
Oh and FYI, I recommend you pickup a dictionnary xploror and look up the word alien.
"A Vorlon once said 'Understanding is a three edged sword'. Your side, their side, and the truth. The truth is, we don't need you any more"
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
Imagination? Fanstasy? You exist. I exist. Our world, planet, solar system, galaxy, and other galaxies exist.
-> Well what do YOU believe in? YOU either believe in Creation or Evolution. <-
The rest is self explanitory. I know, too much food for thought. Most people go through life not facing for sure what they believe in.... until they are on their death bed.
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
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======= SIGNATURE =========
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MMORPG games I've played:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
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http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
First of all if you want to talk about God - read some bible (Old Testament mainly that will introduce to christian, jewish and muslim faith).
God is not a creature that fly in sourcer and has green skin. God can not be named or described. God is not from this world (planet/galaxy/universe <put anything what describe our world here>). He created this world you and aliens if they exist. He is not an alien, has no form, he is not what we humans define as lifeform. He is pure perfection source of everything in the world.
"I AM THAT I AM." said God to Moses.
You simply have no idea when you talk about God, your knowledge about God comes from TV, if you want to find out more go and speak to priest before you lie on deathbed.
I do not say I belive in God, I have grown up in religious family and have my share of knowledge about religion and God.
Do you belive in creation or evolution? I have a feeling you dont know in what to belive, hopefully one day you may find your way.
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
==============================
And besides, like it or not, people do try to "win" massively multiplayer RPGs. The rules of engagement are something like this:
* If there is a status bar, make it grow bigger
* If there is a number, make it higher
* If it moves, either get a mission from it or kill it
I believe in many things but none of the above. I thought you might have some simplified and cathegorized view of the world and I was right. Try expanding your horizons a bit (not with science fiction) and you'll eventually find out that nothing is just black or white. There's alot of grey....
But this is not the place for this discussion.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
When life tastes like lemmon, take tequila and salt.
Dang this topic got way off the subject
Xplorer Please just leave this room, you provide NOTHING useful.
-> Well... do YOU believe in Creation or Evolution? <-
To quote the movie DOGMA(well not exact quote): Its much better to have an idea then a beleif because they are easier to change. People go to war over beleifs.
When I m on my death bed, Ill probably reflect on the good and bad times of my life. Im certainly not gonna make plans for my afterlife , that would be like making plans after buying a lottery ticket.
Now, back to AC2 topic, enough about religion and war, and please dont start on politics(
) in your next post