Originally posted by wjrasmussen Originally posted by zakk_ I do have a problem with that option not being there though.No rogues,no assassins,no druids..nothing but mindless masses zerging toward you.
This game might not be for you.
Yep that's true.
Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math.
Originally posted by cybercannon Only read the OP, so this may have already been stated. If they stick true to the warhammer table top armies styles (as they said they are) then I don't expect to see stealth at release. If they put skaven (rat people) in an expansion there will definately be stealth like abilities. That army is all about ambush, sneak attack, tunneling underground and emerging behind enemy lines.
Skaven abilities sound good.I assume they'd be on the evil side if included in an xpac,does good have a race with similar stealth abilities that would even it out?
While I'm sure there will be those, like you, who bemoan the lack of juicy targets, I am willing to bet money that no one will post a serious thread complaining that they can't play fragile class who's gameplay is to just sit back, heal, and hope no one gets near them.
problem is the WoW version of a priest... I play pure healers 90% of the time, in games where a healer can take a hit and keep going. Its fun to me because no class can effect a fight like a well played healer.. this doesnt work of course if the healer type classes are basically mages with some DPS taken away and replaced with a couple heals... it has to be able to stand right in the thick of things while keeping itself and its groupmates alive- no damage dealing needed, because the priest doing its job lets the damage dealers do theirs.
Only works in games that are truely balanced and centered around group vs group combat, but yah its a role I enjoy and play at every opportunity.
Originally posted by zakk_ Yep that's true.Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math.
Well, if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp then learn2play. Seriously, you can gank the heck out of cloth wearers in WoW, not here in WAR. So move on or shut up, thanks
Well, if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp then learn2play. Seriously, you can gank the heck out of cloth wearers in WoW, not here in WAR. So move on or shut up, thanks
Show me where I said I want to gank folks?I've put forward several ideas to eliminate stealthers getting cheap kills.Go back to your WOW rogue and learn2read.
"Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math.
Learn2play if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp.
BTW: Stealth classes are meant to gank and get cheap kills (in every mmo I've played). They got weak armor and not much hp, so in order to win they have to use cheap tricks and do damage quick = aka ganking and cheap kills.
And your ideas are worthless, there wont be any stealth classes in WAR. So shhhh it or move on to WoW.
Originally posted by cybercannon Only read the OP, so this may have already been stated. If they stick true to the warhammer table top armies styles (as they said they are) then I don't expect to see stealth at release. If they put skaven (rat people) in an expansion there will definately be stealth like abilities. That army is all about ambush, sneak attack, tunneling underground and emerging behind enemy lines.
Yes, but there's a big difference between Skaven type stealth and wow-type stealth. Skavens cant be seen because they're moving in places where it's not possible to see them (tunnels for instance), not because they magicly vanished in thin air right infront of your nose. Once the skaven spring their ambush they cant magicly dissapear again.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Originally posted by Lumster Haha, i don't even play WoW.
So why mention it every post?
You said: "Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math. Learn2play if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp.
I want stealth to scout,learn2read.
TW: Stealth classes are meant to gank and get cheap kills (in every mmo I've played). They got weak armor and not much hp, so in order to win they have to use cheap tricks and do damage quick = aka ganking and cheap kills.
No sh*t sherlock(click the little numbers on the bottom of the page)
And your ideas are worthless, there wont be any stealth classes in WAR. So shhhh it or move on to WoW.
rofl,you don't say..that's the point of this thread
No stealth = a giant unending brawl,tanks at the front,mages healers at the back..yawn
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
1. it was the first time that i ever mentiod it on these forums 2. You don't need stealth to scout, how do you think people done it in real life (In Wars etc.)? Learn2think 3. already did that 4. the point of this thread is: no stealth classes in WAR, nuff said
Originally posted by WoodenDummy Originally posted by zakk_
No stealth = a giant unending brawl,tanks at the front,mages healers at the back..yawn
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
Surely some classes will have higher hp/ac than others,and some classes will have ranged attacks/heals and some won't?
Originally posted by Lumster 1. it was the first time that i ever mentiod it on these forums 2. You don't need stealth to scout, how do you think people done it in real life (In Wars etc.)? Learn2think 3. already did that 4. the point of this thread is: no stealth classes in WAR, nuff said
1. wrong 2. i wouldn't pay to go to war 3. if you did...learn2read 4. yes i think we've established that..that is why i started the thread
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
I keep seeing stuff like this, but from what are you basing this information? Remember, WAR != tabletop.
I have a hard time seeing why any ranged class would want to stand toe to toe with a melee class; particularly when the WAR devs and spokespeople have mentioned how player collision will help protect your group's squishy classes.
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
I keep seeing stuff like this, but from what are you basing this information? Remember, WAR != tabletop.
I have a hard time seeing why any ranged class would want to stand toe to toe with a melee class; particularly when the WAR devs and spokespeople have mentioned how player collision will help protect your group's squishy classes.
It's amazing how ppl think that "Every class is going to be a combat class" means that every class will be a melee class....
I m pretty sure what they meant was that support classes wont be the type to keep on healing and buffing all day long but will have some powess in battle too... or that buffs and healing are not exculive to 1 class but divided among all the classes (but that's just me thinking )
No stealth = a giant unending brawl,tanks at the front,mages healers at the back. Woot! WAAAAGH! SMASH More! Eat my choppah!
Fixed that quote for you... You just described the perfect PvP scenario :P
So ya.. screw stealth atleast the kind that you're talking about.. stealth is about using the environment to be hard to spot.. Not a magic button...
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
The problem with stealth is popular games made steatlh = invisiblity unless you were about on top of the person. This is completely unrealistic. The most steatlhing should ever do is make you harder to see.... I suggest everyone takes a look at how stealth is doen in Planetside. If you aren't moving you are 100% invisible. If you are moving slowly "walking" you have a very faint shimmery outline. If you are running, you look like player that is clear insted of coloered.
So if a player is paying atten and looking for stealthers they will find you everytime, as they SHOULD stealthers should only ever have an advantage on the un-aware.
It is competely stupid that in WoW and DAoC if you have a stealther standing directly infront of you, in broad daylight in the middle of a completely open area you will and not see them.
It's worse in DAoC and WoW because you can WALK THROUGH THe freaking stealther. So not only can you not see them you can walk right through them. At least in planetside there was Collesion dectection. So if you were running around and suddenly hit a "wall" you would figure it is a stealther and shoot it.
It is stupid when a stealther can /wave, you no they are there, but have no chance of finding them really.
A stealther should be able to sit in the middle of road and let "too strong targets" just run through him. And just click "gank" whenever a robe wearer begins to run through him.
As far as scouting... I played DAoC... Before radar use became a problem I would scout the frontier on my Shammy all the time... A tiny little kobold shammy. I dyed my cape the color of bark and just stand behind trees. It worked 95% fine. Enemies don't expect a lone shaman to be hiding behind random trees. Heck I would be doing this will seeing our "stealther scouts" getting found by the enemy since they were standing in the middle of a road. I always thought that was funny... A lvl 50 SB being uncovered by a group of Abls running by with an INF yet the little shaman that is just standing behind a trees went completely unnoticed and gets to watch the abls dance on the corpse.
I would also /send dead SB "That had to of hurt, don't release I'll rez when they leave" then they would feel all stupid and stuff and release as soon as I said that most times.
Originally posted by Bent The problem with stealth is popular games made steatlh = invisiblity unless you were about on top of the person. This is completely unrealistic. The most steatlhing should ever do is make you harder to see.... I suggest everyone takes a look at how stealth is doen in Planetside. If you aren't moving you are 100% invisible. If you are moving slowly "walking" you have a very faint shimmery outline. If you are running, you look like player that is clear insted of coloered.
So if a player is paying atten and looking for stealthers they will find you everytime, as they SHOULD stealthers should only ever have an advantage on the un-aware.
It is competely stupid that in WoW and DAoC if you have a stealther standing directly infront of you, in broad daylight in the middle of a completely open area you will and not see them.
It's worse in DAoC and WoW because you can WALK THROUGH THe freaking stealther. So not only can you not see them you can walk right through them. At least in planetside there was Collesion dectection. So if you were running around and suddenly hit a "wall" you would figure it is a stealther and shoot it.
It is stupid when a stealther can /wave, you no they are there, but have no chance of finding them really.
A stealther should be able to sit in the middle of road and let "too strong targets" just run through him. And just click "gank" whenever a robe wearer begins to run through him.
As far as scouting... I played DAoC... Before radar use became a problem I would scout the frontier on my Shammy all the time... A tiny little kobold shammy. I dyed my cape the color of bark and just stand behind trees. It worked 95% fine. Enemies don't expect a lone shaman to be hiding behind random trees. Heck I would be doing this will seeing our "stealther scouts" getting found by the enemy since they were standing in the middle of a road. I always thought that was funny... A lvl 50 SB being undered by a group of Abls running by with a INF but the little shaman that is just standing behind a trees going completely unnoticed.
I completly agree with you. I do not think that taking out stealth in the game is the best route, however, giving it restrictions is a necessity. Yes in WoW and DAOC stealthers were overpowered and unrealistic. I remember in WoW when a couple times in the BG when an enemy stealther would dissapear right in front of me and then tease me, actually making the emotes while he was invisible. I couldnt do anything, even when I knew he was right in front of me I would walk through him. It is cimpletely unrealistic and overpowering. Stealthers should have a limited ability to turn invisible.
When stealthers are standing still, they can have 100% invisilibty. Thats fine with me, thats realistic, and it gives meaning to the word "stealth".
When they are walking there should be an outline of sorts, maybe a faint shadow or shimmer or something. 50% invisibility. In PVE they should be able to detect depending on the type of monster or skills/attributes the AI has.
When they run they break their cover completly. If they attack, they break their cover. If they use certain skills, they break their cover.
So if youre a mage and youre looking out for yourself, you can eventually find the stealther thats sneaking up behind you. The "cooldown" for the stealth skill should be at a good 5-10 minutes, so it doesnt encourage running and stealthing all over again in short bursts of time.
Sincerely,
Dr. Steelarm
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
The perfect pvp scenario?..zero 1v1 skill required,just swing away while you wait for your turn on the end of the assist train,respawn,rinse-repeat..meh,whatever.
Originally posted by zakk_ The perfect pvp scenario?..zero 1v1 skill required,just swing away while you wait for your turn on the end of the assist train,respawn,rinse-repeat..meh,whatever.
First of all, a grand mellee is not a 1 vs 1 battle, seccondly, yes it does take skill, just not the 'stay invisible until you get close to the guy who has no chance of surviving you'r attack from total invisibility kind of stealth' kind of skill.. Usually there are a TON of defensive skills available to use, most people just ignore them cause of thinking like "ehh? shield wall? WTF? cant kill anyone with a stupid shield wall" to them offensive is all that matters...
I remember playing D&D in the old days how some people complained about how mages sucked cause they died so fast, turns out all they used were offensive spells while theres a shitload of defensive spells available that you can 'prep' yourself with before combat.
Third, Collission detection will have alot of effect on the 'assist train' kind of battle, i can't wait to try it out
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Originally posted by Nimuel Originally posted by zakk_ The perfect pvp scenario?..zero 1v1 skill required,just swing away while you wait for your turn on the end of the assist train,respawn,rinse-repeat..meh,whatever.
First of all, a grand mellee is not a 1 vs 1 battle, seccondly, yes it does take skill, just not the 'stay invisible until you get close to the guy who has no chance of surviving you'r attack from total invisibility kind of stealth' kind of skill.. Usually there are a TON of defensive skills available to use, most people just ignore them cause of thinking like "ehh? shield wall? WTF? cant kill anyone with a stupid shield wall" to them offensive is all that matters...
That's right it's not a 1v1 battle.There will be no 1v1 battles.You think it takes no skill to stealth into a 50 man enemy unit and take 1 out,then escape?...ook.What type of "skills" will the ranged classes/healers be using?Standing behind a shield wall is not a skill.
Third, Collission detection will have alot of effect on the 'assist train' kind of battle, i can't wait to try it out
Collision detection is the reason I think most battles will be like this.Any battle that's not on an open field will be a "shield wall at the front,ranged at the back"deal.
If seige weapons are well done maybe it could be different.It's possible a shield wall would be an invitation for destruction,you need to be spread out,or if catapults can fling more than 1 at a time into the enemy ranks,that would be cool.
The problem with stealth is popular games made steatlh = invisiblity unless you were about on top of the person. This is completely unrealistic. The most steatlhing should ever do is make you harder to see.... I suggest everyone takes a look at how stealth is doen in Planetside. If you aren't moving you are 100% invisible. If you are moving slowly "walking" you have a very faint shimmery outline. If you are running, you look like player that is clear insted of coloered.
So if a player is paying atten and looking for stealthers they will find you everytime, as they SHOULD stealthers should only ever have an advantage on the un-aware.
When stealthers are standing still, they can have 100% invisilibty. Thats fine with me, thats realistic, and it gives meaning to the word "stealth".
When they are walking there should be an outline of sorts, maybe a faint shadow or shimmer or something. 50% invisibility. In PVE they should be able to detect depending on the type of monster or skills/attributes the AI has.
When they run they break their cover completly. If they attack, they break their cover. If they use certain skills, they break their cover.
This type of stealth coupled with restrictions like I mentioned earlier is what I'm asking for.If the stealther manages to get into a position to take someone out who is not-at half health,10 levels lower,fighting a mob etc,the stealther earns the kill and the victim can have no complaints..though they no doubt will,me Zugg,me Smash is a popular way to pvp.
No stealth = a giant unending brawl,tanks at the front,mages healers at the back. Woot! WAAAAGH! SMASH More! Eat my choppah!
Fixed that quote for you... You just described the perfect PvP scenario :P
So ya.. screw stealth atleast the kind that you're talking about.. stealth is about using the environment to be hard to spot.. Not a magic button...
Completely agree with this being a kick ass pvp scenario. The skill will come from group coordination. The class descriptions are basically the perfect rock/paper/scissors set up for balance. WOW abandoned this trinity and the balance is horrible. Me and several friends with mages quit because they're obsolete. Several rogue friends quit too because the dps is taken over by every other class that also has other primary roles.
War will have: Tank Melee, DPS Melee, Ranged DPS, Ranged Magic/heal. Now supposing they do the armor rating something equivilent to Tanks=plate, DPS melee=mail, Ranged DPS=leather, Ranged Magic/heal=leather or maybe cloth then Mythic could get that great balance.
Tank>DPS melee
DPS melee> ranged dps and ranged magic/heal
Ranged dps and magic > tank
Ranged DPS > ranged magic but they get heals for balance
Add to that the collision detection and the possible addition of Pushes/shoves ( http://www.warhammeralliance.com/article/war-news/joshua-drescher-dev-quotes-somethingaweful.html) and there is some great tactical possibilites here. PLUS the individual customization of what buffs, skills and abilities you choose/train, AND the differences inherent in different classes. Ex) The ork tank will not have same abilities and skills as chaos tank, as dark elf tank, etc etc.
And it's completely possible to make all of these combat-classes. The balancing just needs to come in how much dps vs armor, vs heal and range. A healer doesn't need to be pure healing. But he should never be able to approach a dps class in damage or a tank in armor. If that's done then there's no reason to play the other classes.
I'm also glad stealth isn't being planned. It seems cowardly and encourages immature players (griefers) who think they're special or skilled.
Most of all it would defeat the spirit of this game. The combat is meant to be in-your-face, fast and ferocious. I don't think they intend to have 12 people in an instanced pvp scenario who are invisible and essentially out of combat and barely playing as they're "stalking" and slinking around. That would slow gameplay and mess the balance they're trying to achieve imo.
And in response to a post not too far above that mentioned there won't be 1vs1 fights. Where in the world you you get that??? There most definately WILL be random encounters between solo players in pvp zones. There are likely to be some 1v1 battles in the battlefields (non-instanced control points). Instanced scenarios and campaigns will be much less 1v1, but it's still possible to have those encounters.
Comments
Yep that's true.
Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math.
While I'm sure there will be those, like you, who bemoan the lack of juicy targets, I am willing to bet money that no one will post a serious thread complaining that they can't play fragile class who's gameplay is to just sit back, heal, and hope no one gets near them.
problem is the WoW version of a priest... I play pure healers 90% of the time, in games where a healer can take a hit and keep going. Its fun to me because no class can effect a fight like a well played healer.. this doesnt work of course if the healer type classes are basically mages with some DPS taken away and replaced with a couple heals... it has to be able to stand right in the thick of things while keeping itself and its groupmates alive- no damage dealing needed, because the priest doing its job lets the damage dealers do theirs.
Only works in games that are truely balanced and centered around group vs group combat, but yah its a role I enjoy and play at every opportunity.
Well, if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp then learn2play. Seriously, you can gank the heck out of cloth wearers in WoW, not here in WAR. So move on or shut up, thanks
Show me where I said I want to gank folks?I've put forward several ideas to eliminate stealthers getting cheap kills.Go back to your WOW rogue and learn2read.
Haha, i don't even play WoW.
You said:
"Eliminate solo pve from a game and you have a niche game,eliminate solo pvp from a game designed around pvp..Mythic can do the math.
Learn2play if you need a stealth class to do solo pvp.
BTW: Stealth classes are meant to gank and get cheap kills (in every mmo I've played). They got weak armor and not much hp, so in order to win they have to use cheap tricks and do damage quick = aka ganking and cheap kills.
And your ideas are worthless, there wont be any stealth classes in WAR. So shhhh it or move on to WoW.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
1. it was the first time that i ever mentiod it on these forums
2. You don't need stealth to scout, how do you think people done it in real life (In Wars etc.)? Learn2think
3. already did that
4. the point of this thread is: no stealth classes in WAR, nuff said
That is not the way WAR is going to work. Every class is going to be a combat class, there isn't going to be a PvP "tank" and Warhammer "mages" are nothing like the magic users from other games.
Surely some classes will have higher hp/ac than others,and some classes will have ranged attacks/heals and some won't?
2. i wouldn't pay to go to war
3. if you did...learn2read
4. yes i think we've established that..that is why i started the thread
1. wrong
2. then don't pay for WAR
3. i know how2read
4. good thing that mythic gives sh!t about this thread or your ideas
I keep seeing stuff like this, but from what are you basing this information? Remember, WAR != tabletop.
I have a hard time seeing why any ranged class would want to stand toe to toe with a melee class; particularly when the WAR devs and spokespeople have mentioned how player collision will help protect your group's squishy classes.
I keep seeing stuff like this, but from what are you basing this information? Remember, WAR != tabletop.
I have a hard time seeing why any ranged class would want to stand toe to toe with a melee class; particularly when the WAR devs and spokespeople have mentioned how player collision will help protect your group's squishy classes.
It's amazing how ppl think that "Every class is going to be a combat class" means that every class will be a melee class....
I m pretty sure what they meant was that support classes wont be the type to keep on healing and buffing all day long but will have some powess in battle too... or that buffs and healing are not exculive to 1 class but divided among all the classes (but that's just me thinking
)
So ya.. screw stealth
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
The problem with stealth is popular games made steatlh = invisiblity unless you were about on top of the person. This is completely unrealistic. The most steatlhing should ever do is make you harder to see.... I suggest everyone takes a look at how stealth is doen in Planetside. If you aren't moving you are 100% invisible. If you are moving slowly "walking" you have a very faint shimmery outline. If you are running, you look like player that is clear insted of coloered.
So if a player is paying atten and looking for stealthers they will find you everytime, as they SHOULD stealthers should only ever have an advantage on the un-aware.
It is competely stupid that in WoW and DAoC if you have a stealther standing directly infront of you, in broad daylight in the middle of a completely open area you will and not see them.
It's worse in DAoC and WoW because you can WALK THROUGH THe freaking stealther. So not only can you not see them you can walk right through them. At least in planetside there was Collesion dectection. So if you were running around and suddenly hit a "wall" you would figure it is a stealther and shoot it.
It is stupid when a stealther can /wave, you no they are there, but have no chance of finding them really.
A stealther should be able to sit in the middle of road and let "too strong targets" just run through him. And just click "gank" whenever a robe wearer begins to run through him.
As far as scouting... I played DAoC... Before radar use became a problem I would scout the frontier on my Shammy all the time... A tiny little kobold shammy. I dyed my cape the color of bark and just stand behind trees. It worked 95% fine. Enemies don't expect a lone shaman to be hiding behind random trees. Heck I would be doing this will seeing our "stealther scouts" getting found by the enemy since they were standing in the middle of a road. I always thought that was funny... A lvl 50 SB being uncovered by a group of Abls running by with an INF yet the little shaman that is just standing behind a trees went completely unnoticed and gets to watch the abls dance on the corpse.
I would also /send dead SB "That had to of hurt, don't release I'll rez when they leave" then they would feel all stupid and stuff and release as soon as I said that most times.
I completly agree with you. I do not think that taking out stealth in the game is the best route, however, giving it restrictions is a necessity. Yes in WoW and DAOC stealthers were overpowered and unrealistic. I remember in WoW when a couple times in the BG when an enemy stealther would dissapear right in front of me and then tease me, actually making the emotes while he was invisible. I couldnt do anything, even when I knew he was right in front of me I would walk through him. It is cimpletely unrealistic and overpowering. Stealthers should have a limited ability to turn invisible.
When stealthers are standing still, they can have 100% invisilibty. Thats fine with me, thats realistic, and it gives meaning to the word "stealth".
When they are walking there should be an outline of sorts, maybe a faint shadow or shimmer or something. 50% invisibility. In PVE they should be able to detect depending on the type of monster or skills/attributes the AI has.
When they run they break their cover completly. If they attack, they break their cover. If they use certain skills, they break their cover.
So if youre a mage and youre looking out for yourself, you can eventually find the stealther thats sneaking up behind you. The "cooldown" for the stealth skill should be at a good 5-10 minutes, so it doesnt encourage running and stealthing all over again in short bursts of time.
Sincerely,
Dr. Steelarm
-------------------------------------------
Steelarm, Doctor of MMO gaming, ethics, and ideas.
I remember playing D&D in the old days how some people complained about how mages sucked cause they died so fast, turns out all they used were offensive spells while theres a shitload of defensive spells available that you can 'prep' yourself with before combat.
Third, Collission detection will have alot of effect on the 'assist train' kind of battle, i can't wait to try it out
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
That's right it's not a 1v1 battle.There will be no 1v1 battles.You think it takes no skill to stealth into a 50 man enemy unit and take 1 out,then escape?...ook.What type of "skills" will the ranged classes/healers be using?Standing behind a shield wall is not a skill.
Third, Collission detection will have alot of effect on the 'assist train' kind of battle, i can't wait to try it out
Collision detection is the reason I think most battles will be like this.Any battle that's not on an open field will be a "shield wall at the front,ranged at the back"deal.
If seige weapons are well done maybe it could be different.It's possible a shield wall would be an invitation for destruction,you need to be spread out,or if catapults can fling more than 1 at a time into the enemy ranks,that would be cool.
When stealthers are standing still, they can have 100% invisilibty. Thats fine with me, thats realistic, and it gives meaning to the word "stealth".
When they are walking there should be an outline of sorts, maybe a faint shadow or shimmer or something. 50% invisibility. In PVE they should be able to detect depending on the type of monster or skills/attributes the AI has.
When they run they break their cover completly. If they attack, they break their cover. If they use certain skills, they break their cover.
This type of stealth coupled with restrictions like I mentioned earlier is what I'm asking for.If the stealther manages to get into a position to take someone out who is not-at half health,10 levels lower,fighting a mob etc,the stealther earns the kill and the victim can have no complaints..though they no doubt will,me Zugg,me Smash is a popular way to pvp.
Completely agree with this being a kick ass pvp scenario. The skill will come from group coordination. The class descriptions are basically the perfect rock/paper/scissors set up for balance. WOW abandoned this trinity and the balance is horrible. Me and several friends with mages quit because they're obsolete. Several rogue friends quit too because the dps is taken over by every other class that also has other primary roles.
War will have: Tank Melee, DPS Melee, Ranged DPS, Ranged Magic/heal. Now supposing they do the armor rating something equivilent to Tanks=plate, DPS melee=mail, Ranged DPS=leather, Ranged Magic/heal=leather or maybe cloth then Mythic could get that great balance.
Tank>DPS melee
DPS melee> ranged dps and ranged magic/heal
Ranged dps and magic > tank
Ranged DPS > ranged magic but they get heals for balance
Add to that the collision detection and the possible addition of Pushes/shoves ( http://www.warhammeralliance.com/article/war-news/joshua-drescher-dev-quotes-somethingaweful.html) and there is some great tactical possibilites here. PLUS the individual customization of what buffs, skills and abilities you choose/train, AND the differences inherent in different classes. Ex) The ork tank will not have same abilities and skills as chaos tank, as dark elf tank, etc etc.
And it's completely possible to make all of these combat-classes. The balancing just needs to come in how much dps vs armor, vs heal and range. A healer doesn't need to be pure healing. But he should never be able to approach a dps class in damage or a tank in armor. If that's done then there's no reason to play the other classes.
I'm also glad stealth isn't being planned. It seems cowardly and encourages immature players (griefers) who think they're special or skilled.
Most of all it would defeat the spirit of this game. The combat is meant to be in-your-face, fast and ferocious. I don't think they intend to have 12 people in an instanced pvp scenario who are invisible and essentially out of combat and barely playing as they're "stalking" and slinking around. That would slow gameplay and mess the balance they're trying to achieve imo.
And in response to a post not too far above that mentioned there won't be 1vs1 fights. Where in the world you you get that??? There most definately WILL be random encounters between solo players in pvp zones. There are likely to be some 1v1 battles in the battlefields (non-instanced control points). Instanced scenarios and campaigns will be much less 1v1, but it's still possible to have those encounters.