Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Apache_ Not to flame you, but alot of people pre-paid for an entire year just before the announcement of the NGE. The way I see it....they paid for a year, so they can still slam SWG for another 6 months. They paid for that right.
There's that indefinite pronoun defense again. A lot of people, huh? Are you one of them? If not, then you can't use their plight as a reason for your own anger. They aren't just strangers to you, most of them exist only in your head. You can't be pissed over your own diseased fantasy.
If I see injustice Should I then just turn my back and walk away? Or should I stand up for my fellow humans and fight with them for theirs and my rights? according to you Squidi everyone who hasn't payed subscription in advance or lost money due to errors of SOE's billing system walk away and leave our fellow consumers to fight the injustice. I might not have lost money due to SOE's mismanagement of their consumers, but if I do not stand up with my fellow consumers to fight profit hungry companies when injustice is done then I risk some other company will do the same to me eventually. Only by fighting the wrongdoing companies we consumers will be able to change the behaviour of the rotten apples and create a safe invorenment for all consumers.
So contrary to what you think then I and a lot of other people have all the right to point out the wrongdoings of SOE in order to create a safer experience for consumers. I don't care if it's many or few people who get affected by the doings of SOE as long as just one single person gets violated by false promises and underhand actions then I will stand up and fight with them in their cause.
I know of three people personally who in one way or another was seriously affected by the changes with the CU and NGE. I myself kept playing SWG because SOE claimed they were going to rewamp Ranger. I paid for the game for another two months just because of that promise. If I had known SOE was not going to rewamp Ranger but removing the profession entirely then I wouldn't have kept on paying for the game.
Oh and I see you are still offending people even though you've alredady claimed you do not do such things. Man you are one big hypocrite.
If I see injustice Should I then just turn my back and walk away? Or should I stand up for my fellow humans and fight with them for theirs and my rights? according to you Squidi everyone who hasn't payed subscription in advance or lost money due to errors of SOE's billing system walk away and leave our fellow consumers to fight the injustice. If you see an injustice, then stand up for it. However, I'm arguing that you aren't actually seeing injustices - just hearing about them from a friend of a friend and that perhaps your understanding of these injustices might be a little exaggerated compared to reality. If you have a primary source - if you know someone who has been screwed - then complain away. If you can verify the severity of the problem - if you know HOW MANY people got screwed - then go for it. But if your indignation is based on somebody on a forum telling you that some people got screwed, that's just another indefinite pronoun announcing nothing in particular.
I might not have lost money due to SOE's mismanagement of their consumers, but if I do not stand up with my fellow consumers to fight profit hungry companies when injustice is done then I risk some other company will do the same to me eventually. But WHO are you standing up for? Your fellow consumers? Which ones? Point them out to me? I'm a fellow consumer, and I haven't been screwed. You apparently haven't either. That's two verifiable examples, and neither of which need your support over a problem we don't have.
Only by fighting the wrongdoing companies we consumers will be able to change the behaviour of the rotten apples and create a safe invorenment for all consumers. I agree completely. But do some research first. Don't fight for causes which don't exist or are statistical anomalies. You want to fight against the wrong doing of corporate America - I'm right there with you buddy. Let's tell the world about the wrong doings of Monsanto which produces a bovine growth horimone which tortures cows, makes them sick, and puts chemicals and pus into the produced milk which could be VERY harmful to our children and THEN sues farmers who market their milk as not containing this product. Let's go out there and fight against Enron which manipulated the supply of electricity to entire states, creating rolling blackouts that resulted in a decent governor being replaced by a movie star with connections to Enron. Or let's talk about the current government's inbreeding with energy companies leading to policies of significant pollution and global warming. Don't eat Tuna more than once a week because of the mercury content. Yeah, let's fight the good fight. Let's win.
But SOE makes a fucking game, man.
So contrary to what you think then I and a lot of other people have all the right to point out the wrongdoings of SOE in order to create a safer experience for consumers. Then POINT OUT THEIR WRONGDOINGS! Don't just say that somewhere, somehow, somebody might be kinda sorta screwed, and IT'S ALL SOE'S FAULT! Give examples. Give proof. If you want to be pissed, you'll find a way, and unfortunately, you're finding ways that just make you even more pissed based on hearsay and speculation.
I don't care if it's many or few people who get affected by the doings of SOE as long as just one single person gets violated by false promises and underhand actions then I will stand up and fight with them in their cause. What false promises? What underhand actions? What the fuck are you fighting against? Spell it out for me. Because there is a very real possibility that you are fighting windmills here.
I know of three people personally who in one way or another was seriously affected by the changes with the CU and NGE. Seriously? Do tell...
I myself kept playing SWG because SOE claimed they were going to rewamp Ranger. I paid for the game for another two months just because of that promise. If I had known SOE was not going to rewamp Ranger but removing the profession entirely then I wouldn't have kept on paying for the game. They didn't claim crap. It wasn't a promise, it was a statement of intent. Like "I may go to the store later". Do NOT misrepresent a plan for a promise. That's bullshit and you know it. If you kept playing for something that hadn't happened yet, that's your own damn fault. You could've easily quit and come back in two months. Don't blame them for your stupidity.
Oh and I see you are still offending people even though you've alredady claimed you do not do such things. Man you are one big hypocrite. Just stating that I like the NGE offends people. I can't help if people will take offense to a difference of opinion, but that's all it is. But here, I'm trying to tell you people that you are making mountains out of molehills - molehills that may not even really exist - and of course you are going to be offended because I'm saying you are wrong, and people don't like to hear that. But I'm not offending you for just the sake of offending you. I have a point.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice.
(Oh, and there's that "some folks" thing. I guess you don't think SOE ruined up to 2 years for yourself? But other people... yeah. So it's worth being pissed off on their behalf, I guess... even though they don't exist?)
*sigh* looks like you're on another one of your self-righteous flame sprees again. You really need to think before you talk sometimes. Or perhaps it is your intent to come off like a troll.
He's complaining about the fact that the time people invested in the past was invested for the future of the game. I'll explain with an example from my own experience.
Personally, before the slicing changes went live (in pub what was it, 18?), I spent many hours tinkering with the "upgraded" slicing system conversions (set up a bunch of houses and spent hours sorting out goods so they could be converted to new slicing tools -- why? Because anything that wasn't already out of a crate wouldn't convert when the patch went live. SOE didn't bother to tell anyone, though.
Yet, I had dozens and dozens of crates of slicing gear, and, according to the devs, all smugglers were absolutely entitled to these conversions. Naturally, more than a few people were really alarmed by this on the smuggler forums, so they asked and received a "working as intended" notice. This "bug" wouldn't be fixed. Gasp.
I told whoever I could amongst smuggler-kind on Bloodfin to follow suit, explaining what was up. Alas, I couldn't save them all. A few days after the publish hit, I was converting the multitude of kits I had and offering slicing services for cheap, just to see how the system worked. Repeatedly that day, I ran into other smugglers who complained about not being able to obtain slicing goods from their crated kits, and generally not knowing where to obtain the new gear.
Mind you, all of that information was on the forums but it was player-released info. None of it was declared by developers. There was no in-game help. Either you knew where to go, or were left in the dust. Later on, after getting more than a few flames from shafted smugglers, the devs decided to fix the "bug" they claimed they wouldn't. I could take an old kit out of the crate and turn it into a new slicing goodie! Yay!
So, I got complacent. I still had about twenty or thirty crates full of old slicing gear that I just couldn't unload anywhere, and since I could have less inventory load by just carrying a few crates around, it was all the better for me.
Then comes the NGE, and guess what? The devs, in their infinite wisdom, completely eradicated all the remaining old tools AND crates from the game. I had a few of the old pieces in a "museum" (which I now call a "tomb" for my avatar), and even they disappeared. No more conversions for me. Or anyone else for that matter, including a friend of mine who had perhaps thousands of crates pre-crafted and waiting in several factories.
Some say that it was done for the purpose of economic balancing. I call BS. The conversion process didn't even provide a leg up on the competition, because the good, "expensive" parts were still maybe 1/100 conversion rates. 99% of the time, you'd get the common, meatlump-drop quality items. I had more luck getting components from space flight than in my bajillion crates.
So, as it turns out, I did the following: - Found out late in the game (a week before live) that my much-loved slicing system was being altered significantly and against the community-accepted plan offered by GreenMarine - Spent several hours trying to circumvent anticipated developer incompetence - Was essentially REWARDED for doing so (I could have charged 1 mil for slicing and gotten away with it) - Wound up having the "bug" fixed, a publish or two after the fact - Had all my crates deleted - In essence, got screwed as an AWARE customer -- the unaware customers were even more screwed, since they probably had no idea the changes were coming.
So, yeah, I tend to think when SOE pulls crap like that, they have accountability.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
-------------------------------------------------------------------- As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Chingyz
If I see injustice Should I then just turn my back and walk away? Or should I stand up for my fellow humans and fight with them for theirs and my rights? according to you Squidi everyone who hasn't payed subscription in advance or lost money due to errors of SOE's billing system walk away and leave our fellow consumers to fight the injustice. If you see an injustice, then stand up for it. However, I'm arguing that you aren't actually seeing injustices - just hearing about them from a friend of a friend and that perhaps your understanding of these injustices might be a little exaggerated compared to reality. If you have a primary source - if you know someone who has been screwed - then complain away. If you can verify the severity of the problem - if you know HOW MANY people got screwed - then go for it. But if your indignation is based on somebody on a forum telling you that some people got screwed, that's just another indefinite pronoun announcing nothing in particular. I do not know how many really got affected. However as I stated then as long as just one get affected I'll fight with them. Giving you the name of my friends won't make any changes as I doubt you know them at all and you would just claim them to be a product of my imagination I might not have lost money due to SOE's mismanagement of their consumers, but if I do not stand up with my fellow consumers to fight profit hungry companies when injustice is done then I risk some other company will do the same to me eventually. But WHO are you standing up for? Your fellow consumers? Which ones? Point them out to me? I'm a fellow consumer, and I haven't been screwed. You apparently haven't either. That's two verifiable examples, and neither of which need your support over a problem we don't have.
Again names won't matter as for me then I'll get to that later Only by fighting the wrongdoing companies we consumers will be able to change the behaviour of the rotten apples and create a safe invorenment for all consumers. I agree completely. But do some research first. Don't fight for causes which don't exist or are statistical anomalies. You want to fight against the wrong doing of corporate America - I'm right there with you buddy. Let's tell the world about the wrong doings of Monsanto which produces a bovine growth horimone which tortures cows, makes them sick, and puts chemicals and pus into the produced milk which could be VERY harmful to our children and THEN sues farmers who market their milk as not containing this product. Let's go out there and fight against Enron which manipulated the supply of electricity to entire states, creating rolling blackouts that resulted in a decent governor being replaced by a movie star with connections to Enron. Or let's talk about the current government's inbreeding with energy companies leading to policies of significant pollution and global warming. Don't eat Tuna more than once a week because of the mercury content. Yeah, let's fight the good fight. Let's win.
But SOE makes a fucking game, man.
It's a game, but still a product bought and used by consumers. Wrongdoings are wrongdoings no matter what scale they are in. So contrary to what you think then I and a lot of other people have all the right to point out the wrongdoings of SOE in order to create a safer experience for consumers. Then POINT OUT THEIR WRONGDOINGS! Don't just say that somewhere, somehow, somebody might be kinda sorta screwed, and IT'S ALL SOE'S FAULT! Give examples. Give proof. If you want to be pissed, you'll find a way, and unfortunately, you're finding ways that just make you even more pissed based on hearsay and speculation.
Wrongdoings of SOE: They promised Creature Handlers special items if they bought the expansion containing Mustafar. They made a list with changes to Range. Both got removed just few weeks later. I don't care if it's many or few people who get affected by the doings of SOE as long as just one single person gets violated by false promises and underhand actions then I will stand up and fight with them in their cause. What false promises? What underhand actions? What the fuck are you fighting against? Spell it out for me. Because there is a very real possibility that you are fighting windmills here.
If you doubt what I just wrote then just ask any Ranger or Creature Handler you know. Or more likely don't know. I know of three people personally who in one way or another was seriously affected by the changes with the CU and NGE. Seriously? Do tell...
Again naming my friends very likely won't help as you probably would claim they are products of my imagination I myself kept playing SWG because SOE claimed they were going to rewamp Ranger. I paid for the game for another two months just because of that promise. If I had known SOE was not going to rewamp Ranger but removing the profession entirely then I wouldn't have kept on paying for the game. They didn't claim crap. It wasn't a promise, it was a statement of intent. Like "I may go to the store later". Do NOT misrepresent a plan for a promise. That's bullshit and you know it. If you kept playing for something that hadn't happened yet, that's your own damn fault. You could've easily quit and come back in two months. Don't blame them for your stupidity.
If someone tells me that they are going to do something or change something and then listing said changes then I see it as a claim or promise. So basically what you are saying is that if you believe what SOE says then you are stupid. You are actually right on with that one. I learned it the hard way. I'll certainly not be this naive next time a company blows out a load of steam like SOE did. Oh and I see you are still offending people even though you've alredady claimed you do not do such things. Man you are one big hypocrite. Just stating that I like the NGE offends people. I can't help if people will take offense to a difference of opinion, but that's all it is. But here, I'm trying to tell you people that you are making mountains out of molehills - molehills that may not even really exist - and of course you are going to be offended because I'm saying you are wrong, and people don't like to hear that. But I'm not offending you for just the sake of offending you. I have a point.
A point where you tell people they are stupid or claiming them to have a diseased fantasy. It seems to me that you are the one who can't handle the difference in oppinion. As soon as someone Talks about people being screwed by SOE you are telling them they are making up things. Again this can be rather offending to some people. Just because you close you eyes to things doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
In the end I find you a rather sad case Squidi. Everytime someone says something bad about SOE you think they are either lying, delusional or both. Valid points bear no effect on you and you would rather close your eyes to things rather than accepting that SOE did something wrong to a lot of people. I'm not arguing weather they had the right to change the game or not, by all means they have the right to do so. However I don't believe they had the moral right to change things this much, as a lot of people had invested a lot into the game that no longer catered to them.
I just wonder how you would feel if some day SOE changed the game back to pre-CU or in a fourth direction that you didn't like. Would you just sit back and watch that happen without saying a word?
There are plenty of people posting specific reasons why they hate SOE... and guess what, you don't get to tell people what they can and can not get upset about. Besides, I don't listen to the opinion of liars or fools... and I can't think of any other group that would say they prefer the NGE. You saying you like the NGE probably doesn't offend people, but I'm sure it makes a few of them value your opinion very little. When I see you say you love the NGE it just tells me that are willing to lie to make a point... like I said, the second conclusion i could jump to is that you may actually be retarded.... or 12. is that it? Are you 12? I hear some kids like games where you just tape the left mouse button down and pwn noobs... and who don't like to be bothered with making all those pesky character progression choices.
There are plenty of people posting specific reasons why they hate SOE... and guess what, you don't get to tell people what they can and can not get upset about. ....
If you have a question as to whether or not he's a troll, check out:
Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by xPaladin Originally posted by Salvatoris @ Squidi
There are plenty of people posting specific reasons why they hate SOE... and guess what, you don't get to tell people what they can and can not get upset about. ....
If you have a question as to whether or not he's a troll, check out:
The direct post link doesn't work, so scroll down two replies and read the post where I quoted him (the original is on page 18 btw).
Some of his posts are pretty innocent, but he really just likes starting sh*t up from time to time.
Originally posted by Salvatoris like I said, the second conclusion i could jump to is that you may actually be retarded.... or 12. is that it? Are you 12? I hear some kids like games where you just tape the left mouse button down and pwn noobs... and who don't like to be bothered with making all those pesky character progression choices.
And this guy isn't doing the same thing ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
I think that most people here can agree they had fun with SWG, however I also think that many here are angry because SOE decided to change the game in a direction that lead towards WoW and FPS style games. I honestly think that if there had been any other game out there like SWG then you would probably not have heard so much complaining about the changes. As it is right now then SOE took a unique game on the market and made its mechanics so similar to all the existing games.
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
I think that most people here can agree they had fun with SWG, however I also think that many here are angry because SOE decided to change the game in a direction that lead towards WoW and FPS style games. I honestly think that if there had been any other game out there like SWG then you would probably not have heard so much complaining about the changes. As it is right now then SOE took a unique game on the market and made its mechanics so similar to all the existing games.
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
I am fully aware of why a lot of people are angry , I also feel they have their right to that anger . I was a fencer Pre-cu people seem to forget to mention , TKMS, Pikemen,fencers and Swordsmen on those lists we were removed too
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You spin me right round baby right round, like a record baby right round round round
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now." Boba Fett
Originally posted by Rabia Does SOE think customers are the enemy?[sorry about the typo: the poll should read threat not thread]
The enemy? No, but I suspect that they firmly believe their customers are so stupid none of us can pour water out of a boot with the directions written on the heel.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Chingyz
I think that most people here can agree they had fun with SWG, however I also think that many here are angry because SOE decided to change the game in a direction that lead towards WoW and FPS style games. I honestly think that if there had been any other game out there like SWG then you would probably not have heard so much complaining about the changes. As it is right now then SOE took a unique game on the market and made its mechanics so similar to all the existing games.
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
I am fully aware of why a lot of people are angry , I also feel they have their right to that anger . I was a fencer Pre-cu people seem to forget to mention , TKMS, Pikemen,fencers and Swordsmen on those lists we were removed too
Well I really weren't making alist of removed people, I was just mentioning professions that were given promises of fixes but never got delivery. With the multitude of professions pre NGE then I was bound to miss some like Pikeman and Droid Engineer. In the end I can't get myself to defend SOE in any way whatsoever, history speaks clearly for itself in regards to what SOE has done.
Some people here on this forum are so eager to defend SOE that they brush off anything that can be said against SOE rather than accepting that SOE did do something wrong to a lot of people. Squidi have said that if you don't know anyone who has been affected by the doings of SOE then you have no right to point it out as it might not even have happened at all. It's very similar to saying that if you don't know anyone who has experienced the inquisition then it has never happened. History speaks for itself.
The irony in this is that in a way we have all been affected by what SOE did. Today there's no MMORPG out there that I want to play, yet I would very much like to play one. SOE took away the only game at present that I was interested in. People tend to forget that if entertainment is taken away from you then you have a right to complain. Why should my entertainment be taken away from me so others could have fun when in fact there are plenty of other games out there that brings the same features as SWG today?
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
Uhmm. I replied to the entire conversation there chief... Its relevant.. Buyt thansk for playing.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Vexin Originally posted by Squidi Originally posted by Rabia
SOE ruined up to 2 years worth of game playing for some folks.
How? Did those 2 years suddenly cease to exist for those people? Did SOE go back in time and make it unfun? SOE changed the future, not the past. You can't hold them accountable for the time you played by choice...
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
Uhmm. I replied to the entire conversation there chief... Its relevant.. Buyt thansk for playing.
Xcathdra
what is a buyt :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
like I said, the second conclusion i could jump to is that you may actually be retarded.... or 12. is that it? Are you 12? I hear some kids like games where you just tape the left mouse button down and pwn noobs... and who don't like to be bothered with making all those pesky character progression choices.
And this guy isn't doing the same thing ?
You speak truth, but this guy's flame is reactionary whilst Squidi's flames are premeditated.
All I'm getting at is "don't feed the trolls." Even if they're only manic-depressive trolls or closet trolls or.. etc.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz] AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
One offensive post does not a troll make. You can make anyone's post look like an attack if you pick and choose which parts to quote. The fact is I simply do not believe anyone could prefer the NGE to any of the previous incarnations of the game. I said if someone claims that, I assume they are lying to make a point. Say you don't hate it, say it could be worse, tell the truth and say that it's a terrible , buggy excuse for a game, but that you still enjoy it more than the other options available... but I can't wrap my brain around anyone truthfully preferring the NGE to the previous versions of the game. I didn't say the guy was stupid, or that he was a child. I said those are the only people I can imagine would prefer the NGE. I did probably call him a liar.... but I am gonna go ahead and stand by that one
Originally posted by Squidi Even you guys must admit that SOE has more than one type of customer. Customers are not their enemy. Outspoken loudmouths who stir up trouble for them are their enemy. One of these is but a small subset of the other. I'll leave it as an excerise to the reader to figure out which.
I view you an outspoken loudmouth Squidi. At least with most of us (and Obraik on "your camp") they have facts, rather than snide insults towards those you disagree wtih.
SOE literally loses hundreds of thousands of customers overnight and some people come to the conclusion its the customers fault?
How does that make sense, the buiness is FOR the customer, so if a company loses 50% plus percent of their customer base wouldnt the oibvious conclusion be, that the company is at fault?
Comments
If I see injustice Should I then just turn my back and walk away? Or should I stand up for my fellow humans and fight with them for theirs and my rights? according to you Squidi everyone who hasn't payed subscription in advance or lost money due to errors of SOE's billing system walk away and leave our fellow consumers to fight the injustice. I might not have lost money due to SOE's mismanagement of their consumers, but if I do not stand up with my fellow consumers to fight profit hungry companies when injustice is done then I risk some other company will do the same to me eventually. Only by fighting the wrongdoing companies we consumers will be able to change the behaviour of the rotten apples and create a safe invorenment for all consumers.
So contrary to what you think then I and a lot of other people have all the right to point out the wrongdoings of SOE in order to create a safer experience for consumers. I don't care if it's many or few people who get affected by the doings of SOE as long as just one single person gets violated by false promises and underhand actions then I will stand up and fight with them in their cause.
I know of three people personally who in one way or another was seriously affected by the changes with the CU and NGE. I myself kept playing SWG because SOE claimed they were going to rewamp Ranger. I paid for the game for another two months just because of that promise. If I had known SOE was not going to rewamp Ranger but removing the profession entirely then I wouldn't have kept on paying for the game.
Oh and I see you are still offending people even though you've alredady claimed you do not do such things. Man you are one big hypocrite.
n. pl. en·e·mies
- One who feels hatred toward, intends injury to, or opposes the interests of another; a foe.
-
- A hostile power or force, such as a nation.
- A member or unit of such a force.
- A group of foes or hostile forces. See Usage Note at collective noun.
- Something destructive or injurious in its effects: “Art hath an enemy called Ignorance” (Ben Jonson).
adj.For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
(Oh, and there's that "some folks" thing. I guess you don't think SOE ruined up to 2 years for yourself? But other people... yeah. So it's worth being pissed off on their behalf, I guess... even though they don't exist?)
*sigh* looks like you're on another one of your self-righteous flame sprees again. You really need to think before you talk sometimes. Or perhaps it is your intent to come off like a troll.
He's complaining about the fact that the time people invested in the past was invested for the future of the game. I'll explain with an example from my own experience.
Personally, before the slicing changes went live (in pub what was it, 18?), I spent many hours tinkering with the "upgraded" slicing system conversions (set up a bunch of houses and spent hours sorting out goods so they could be converted to new slicing tools -- why? Because anything that wasn't already out of a crate wouldn't convert when the patch went live. SOE didn't bother to tell anyone, though.
Yet, I had dozens and dozens of crates of slicing gear, and, according to the devs, all smugglers were absolutely entitled to these conversions. Naturally, more than a few people were really alarmed by this on the smuggler forums, so they asked and received a "working as intended" notice. This "bug" wouldn't be fixed. Gasp.
I told whoever I could amongst smuggler-kind on Bloodfin to follow suit, explaining what was up. Alas, I couldn't save them all. A few days after the publish hit, I was converting the multitude of kits I had and offering slicing services for cheap, just to see how the system worked. Repeatedly that day, I ran into other smugglers who complained about not being able to obtain slicing goods from their crated kits, and generally not knowing where to obtain the new gear.
Mind you, all of that information was on the forums but it was player-released info. None of it was declared by developers. There was no in-game help. Either you knew where to go, or were left in the dust. Later on, after getting more than a few flames from shafted smugglers, the devs decided to fix the "bug" they claimed they wouldn't. I could take an old kit out of the crate and turn it into a new slicing goodie! Yay!
So, I got complacent. I still had about twenty or thirty crates full of old slicing gear that I just couldn't unload anywhere, and since I could have less inventory load by just carrying a few crates around, it was all the better for me.
Then comes the NGE, and guess what? The devs, in their infinite wisdom, completely eradicated all the remaining old tools AND crates from the game. I had a few of the old pieces in a "museum" (which I now call a "tomb" for my avatar), and even they disappeared. No more conversions for me. Or anyone else for that matter, including a friend of mine who had perhaps thousands of crates pre-crafted and waiting in several factories.
Some say that it was done for the purpose of economic balancing. I call BS. The conversion process didn't even provide a leg up on the competition,
because the good, "expensive" parts were still maybe 1/100 conversion
rates. 99% of the time, you'd get the common, meatlump-drop quality items. I had more luck getting components from space flight than in my bajillion crates.
So, as it turns out, I did the following:
- Found out late in the game (a week before live) that my much-loved slicing system was being altered significantly and against the community-accepted plan offered by GreenMarine
- Spent several hours trying to circumvent anticipated developer incompetence
- Was essentially REWARDED for doing so (I could have charged 1 mil for slicing and gotten away with it)
- Wound up having the "bug" fixed, a publish or two after the fact
- Had all my crates deleted
- In essence, got screwed as an AWARE customer -- the unaware customers were even more screwed, since they probably had no idea the changes were coming.
So, yeah, I tend to think when SOE pulls crap like that, they have accountability.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As ye SOE, so shall ye weep.
In the end I find you a rather sad case Squidi. Everytime someone says something bad about SOE you think they are either lying, delusional or both. Valid points bear no effect on you and you would rather close your eyes to things rather than accepting that SOE did something wrong to a lot of people. I'm not arguing weather they had the right to change the game or not, by all means they have the right to do so. However I don't believe they had the moral right to change things this much, as a lot of people had invested a lot into the game that no longer catered to them.
I just wonder how you would feel if some day SOE changed the game back to pre-CU or in a fourth direction that you didn't like. Would you just sit back and watch that happen without saying a word?
@ Squidi
There are plenty of people posting specific reasons why they hate SOE... and guess what, you don't get to tell people what they can and can not get upset about. Besides, I don't listen to the opinion of liars or fools... and I can't think of any other group that would say they prefer the NGE. You saying you like the NGE probably doesn't offend people, but I'm sure it makes a few of them value your opinion very little. When I see you say you love the NGE it just tells me that are willing to lie to make a point... like I said, the second conclusion i could jump to is that you may actually be retarded.... or 12. is that it? Are you 12? I hear some kids like games where you just tape the left mouse button down and pwn noobs... and who don't like to be bothered with making all those pesky character progression choices.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/79758/page/19
The direct post link doesn't work, so scroll down two replies and read the post where I quoted him (the original is on page 18 btw).
Some of his posts are pretty innocent, but he really just likes starting sh*t up from time to time.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/79758/page/19
The direct post link doesn't work, so scroll down two replies and read the post where I quoted him (the original is on page 18 btw).
Some of his posts are pretty innocent, but he really just likes starting sh*t up from time to time.
Originally posted by Salvatoris
like I said, the second conclusion i could jump to is that you may
actually be retarded.... or 12. is that it? Are you 12? I hear some
kids like games where you just tape the left mouse button down and pwn
noobs... and who don't like to be bothered with making all those pesky
character progression choices.
And this guy isn't doing the same thing ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
I think that most people here can agree they had fun with SWG, however I also think that many here are angry because SOE decided to change the game in a direction that lead towards WoW and FPS style games. I honestly think that if there had been any other game out there like SWG then you would probably not have heard so much complaining about the changes. As it is right now then SOE took a unique game on the market and made its mechanics so similar to all the existing games.
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
I am fully aware of why a lot of people are angry , I also feel they have their right to that anger . I was a fencer Pre-cu people seem to forget to mention , TKMS, Pikemen,fencers and Swordsmen on those lists we were removed too
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
Boba Fett
The enemy? No, but I suspect that they firmly believe their customers are so stupid none of us can pour water out of a boot with the directions written on the heel.
So'fe Sose, Naritus, SWG- Forcibly Retired
Friends don't let friends SWG...
However there's other reasons why people are angry with SOE. Mainly the long string of broken promises. Just ask any Smuggler how frustrating it has been to go through the time from launch to present day.. then ask Squad Leaders, Bio Engineers, Entertainers, Creature Handlers and Rangers. Ironically all but one of the mentioned professions have been removed from the game and Smugglers still doesn't smuggle, even pro NGE people say that Smugglers haven't got anything special going for them.
In the end I think it's a lot of small things that has piled up to create so much frustration and hate towards SOE.
I am fully aware of why a lot of people are angry , I also feel they have their right to that anger . I was a fencer Pre-cu people seem to forget to mention , TKMS, Pikemen,fencers and Swordsmen on those lists we were removed too
Well I really weren't making alist of removed people, I was just mentioning professions that were given promises of fixes but never got delivery. With the multitude of professions pre NGE then I was bound to miss some like Pikeman and Droid Engineer. In the end I can't get myself to defend SOE in any way whatsoever, history speaks clearly for itself in regards to what SOE has done.
Some people here on this forum are so eager to defend SOE that they brush off anything that can be said against SOE rather than accepting that SOE did do something wrong to a lot of people. Squidi have said that if you don't know anyone who has been affected by the doings of SOE then you have no right to point it out as it might not even have happened at all. It's very similar to saying that if you don't know anyone who has experienced the inquisition then it has never happened. History speaks for itself.
The irony in this is that in a way we have all been affected by what SOE did. Today there's no MMORPG out there that I want to play, yet I would very much like to play one. SOE took away the only game at present that I was interested in. People tend to forget that if entertainment is taken away from you then you have a right to complain. Why should my entertainment be taken away from me so others could have fun when in fact there are plenty of other games out there that brings the same features as SWG today?
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
Uhmm. I replied to the entire conversation there chief... Its relevant.. Buyt thansk for playing.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
You seem to sidestep the additional dimension of this argument, Squidi. You seem to deliberately avoid the added dimension of: investment. These people (including myself) did not only pay just to play day-to-day, but they built up an investment in this game -- an investment of material game items (resources, amor, weapons, etc), and investment of monetary game items (credits).
It's very much like having a 401k. You've been growing it for years (i.e.: investing time and money), and watching it blossom into something substantial (i.e.: you've had fun). Then, the people who are managing it for you suddenly decide to change your portfolio without telling you (or, in the way SOE did it, without listening to your objectiions). Consequently, because of the nature of the new, high-risk stocks these people channelled your funds into, your 401k is broke within weeks.
Do those who gambled with your 401k funds, and lost, simply say to you "Well, you had fun doing it, didn't you?" They could, but they'd be talking to your back-side as you were heading out the door for a lawyer.
SOE destroyed the investment that so many players had paid over time to construct, and they did so over player objections (and not just a few players, a large majority of players).
If what SOE did was as bad as that happening to your 401k, You wouldn't need to use that as an example . I am partly with Squidi on this one .He is saying If you played for 2 years or whatever you must of been having fun . Therefor you can't blame SOE for your time spent inside the SWG world , Which I agree with . Some people seem to act as though they were forced somehow into playing . I think that is what he was commenting on .
Another thing I feel should be mentioned is , If you are playing a game why focus on the furture ? A game can be shut down at any time . Therefor all the time you spent getting ready for the furture , Could be time wasted.
Right.. The point you and Squidi seem to be missing though is the people who played for 2 years are upset about the majopr changes that made a lot of what they worked for irrelevant. I had fun playing SWG until the NGE was sneaked in the back door. I am sure a lot of toher players would agree with me on that one. I hear people who like the NGE make arguments along the line of the "game is what you make it". True to a certain extent.. I made the most of SWG pre cu.. Then I made the most of it during CU, waiting for SOE to fulfill promises to fix the game. I tried the NGE... I couldnt make the most of it because I disliked it so much. I like the depth and immersion the first 2 version of SWG offered...
If the posts by the devs arent an indication of how we got the NGE I dont know what is. It seems, IMHO, that the devs are part of the ADD crowd (my words) where they cant do anything complex in game because it would get borring for them to do so. I also beleive they are trying to appeal to that clientel (the Nancy Mcyntyre qutoe of Kill, Loot, Repeat - And the too much reading quote). I remeber seeing people who had the cool stuff, Like Madalorian Armor, and wanting to quest to go get it.. Now in game you see a LOT of people who have it.
Its going to behard to introduce super uber leet loot that is supposed to be ultra rare when all that is going to happen is people are going to bitch its to hard to get and they should have it given to them (sound familiar? Jedi to be specific). The devs will swing the Nerg wrecking ball and boom, there it is.
There is no real in depth content in the game because its all waaaay to easy now. Being able to Solo stuff just shouldnt happen, especially in the Starwars universe. Btw I do beleive Jedi should be an Alpha Class... I have seen old school jedi get owned by a 3-5 different professions. I think it should be this way.... If you want to go up against a Jedi... I guess the closest example would be this...
If you want to play stick ball in Brooklyn, you best know the rules.
Xcathdra
How does this have anything to do with , what you replied to ?
Uhmm. I replied to the entire conversation there chief... Its relevant.. Buyt thansk for playing.
Xcathdra
what is a buyt :P
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All I'm getting at is "don't feed the trolls." Even if they're only manic-depressive trolls or closet trolls or.. etc.
-- xpaladin
[MMOz]
AC1/2, AO, DAoC, EQ1/2, SoR, SWG, UO, WAR, WoW
One offensive post does not a troll make. You can make anyone's post look like an attack if you pick and choose which parts to quote. The fact is I simply do not believe anyone could prefer the NGE to any of the previous incarnations of the game. I said if someone claims that, I assume they are lying to make a point. Say you don't hate it, say it could be worse, tell the truth and say that it's a terrible , buggy excuse for a game, but that you still enjoy it more than the other options available... but I can't wrap my brain around anyone truthfully preferring the NGE to the previous versions of the game. I didn't say the guy was stupid, or that he was a child. I said those are the only people I can imagine would prefer the NGE. I did probably call him a liar.... but I am gonna go ahead and stand by that one
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Question: Does SOE think customers are the enemy?
Answer : Has SOE made enemies? You know my answer.
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SOE literally loses hundreds of thousands of customers overnight and some people come to the conclusion its the customers fault?
How does that make sense, the buiness is FOR the customer, so if a company loses 50% plus percent of their customer base wouldnt the oibvious conclusion be, that the company is at fault?