Having never played Horizons, I can't relate any personal experience. However, the consensus seems to be that the crafting system is one of the best, perhaps at the expense of other parts of the game, many of which have been listed in this post.
However I can speak from experience in regard to Dark Age of Camelot. This is the game in which I currently spend most of my playing time. It has all the marks of a mature MMOG and is full of content. The criticism that has been leveled at the ToA expansion is really immaterial to players under 45 or so, and what imbalances may exist only really show themselves in RvR. Mythic, however, is working on an update to RvR which will reportedly address the ToA changes and relevel the playing field.
I re-joined DAoC in November and have found it to be very newbie friendly. I have had no problem finding a group even in an underpopulated server realm (I play in Nimue/Hibernia). Again, I cannot criticize Horizons fairly, but I can recommend DAoC without reservation.
I've played DAoC from Beta phase 2 until now, quite a long time, and I have played Horizons during beta and since release, both are good games, it really just comes down to what you as a person are looking for in a game, they both have pros and cons, all depends on whats important to you.
Richard J. Cox "There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
edit: I apologise for any spelling, and grammatical misappropriations i may have made in this post, was quite a long one
"Its a massive leveling trreadmill"
Most mmorpg's have a leveling tredmill. Some more than others.
- sure, even skill based ones, but not to te effect where most time is spent in a repetative action, of killing mobs to get to lvl 50, DAOC, kill some mobs, ding, move to different spot kill more mobs, ding, move to different spot, kill more mobs ding, etc... plain, uniteresting, a natural progression where you level by playing withouth thinking too much on leveling, now that's ideal, too bad daoc doesnt have that spark of interest to keep you playing naturally, without focusing on dinging
"with little to no special items"
There has always been plenty for each class at specific Levels. Even more Unique Items were introduced with the Trials of Atlantis Expansion. Including "God like" items called "Artifacts".
- i wouldnt really say plenty, a few per each class at best, and you argument for more in the expansion, well, should i play a game and wait for the expansion to get unique and interesting items? I think not, they should be included in the initial product, given expansions add to this, but come on, DAOC's items were just laughable, and easily attainable
"the dunegons are plain boring"
Did you restrict yourself to the starter dungeons, or did you venture forth to dungeons for levels 40+ and 50+? And if you purchased the TOA Expansion, then you would also have had the oppertunity to experience the new ones which can hardly be called "plain boring".
- ive played the lower level ones, and the higher level ones, and yes, they were "plain boring", and again, your argument here holds no merit, why should i go buy an expansion to play perhaps some improved dunegons when the inital product was, well how shall i put it, crap
"there is virtually no commuinity aside from being ina guild"
It takes many to make a community. It takes one to be part of that community.
- when the chat box is empty of all speech other then what the mob says, i'd consider this to be lacking of a comminty, when you try to speak to someone in spacial without a /tell, and not a person responds, i'd call this lacking in community, when in towns, which are meant to draw people in, fro quests, items, etc... no one utters a word, i'd call this lack of community, when approaching someone on the road who is attacking a mob, and all they say "my mob, back off" or a derivate there of, and this is not an isolated incident, i'd call this lack of community, can I stop or do you want me to provide more examples. Additionally, it was not server specific as i've tried many of them, and i do consider myself to be a fairly social, and kind person in game.
"the graphics are mediocre at best, even with the new exapnsion"
A review from PC Magazine states the following:
"One thing most players seem to agree on is that Trials of Atlantis has brought a substantial graphical improvement to the game. Trees finally look more realistic and hills have had protruding rocks added to give a more realistic view of the entire Camelot world. The biggest change to the game has to do with Camelot's lakes, rivers and bodies of water. Not only does water now look better in Trials of Atlantis, but players now have the ability to go underwater and play. "
Giving Graphics an 8/10 Vote with the Expansion TOA.
- if i listened to every decent or good review that each and every site out there gives the PC game market, i'd be broke, sitting under a pile of boxes, and cd's that could otherwise be considered as trash. and again you mention the expansion, SWG looks better, and as for the original AO, looked better and came out before daoc, if im not mistaken, and its not a sys req, as i played both witha voodoo 3 at one point in time.
"the land size is miniscule"
Not sure what gave you thaty idea. I was going to count each "zone" just to give you a number but I don't have time.
Go visit Daoc's Official "Map-A-Lot" at Camelot Herald and see for yourself how large the playing areas are and how many this game offers if you don't know or are not sure.
- the area IS small, i found more nooks and crannies to discover in UO, then I ever did in the 6+ months i played DAoC, and yes all in all three zones (albeit willingly, god only knows what i must have been thinking), additionally limiting players to a "zone" is plain stupid in my oppinion, conquering a zome, and forcing the players of the losing side deeper and deeper into their zone, well that's a bit more interesting. too bad DAOC didn't think of that one.
"RvR is utterly pointless, and the rewards are insignificant."
Unless your character is lvl 45+, there is no point in you even attepting to experience Frontier RvR. Which is my only conclusion to your statement. Mythic has been focusing on the RvR aspect of their game for months now with their recent TOA Release. They are even "re-vamping" the entire RvR system in the coming months with their new FREE expansion "New Frontiers". If your not enjoying RvR as it is now, then i suggest you wait till the expansion.
- Done RvR with high level characters, and i stand by my initial statement, its utterly pointless, check the above rebuttle, and hey, maybe i've just given the devs of DAOC a new idea to make their game at least a bit interesting. But anyways, you use the argument, of wait for the "free" expansion, why should i wait for an already crappy porduct, that has been out for a number of years to get better, when there are better products that I could be testing and giving feedback on funtionality. Also the whole free thing, is a big whooptee dooo, as AO already did something like this, it's all a ploy to retain those customers who are already on the verge of leaving
"Forced grouping is tiresome and unecessary, and irritating when you need to find a group"
If your not a team player then solo. There are plenty of ways and means to do so with every offered class. Some are easier than others. DAOC also has a built in "find a group" feature to help locate a group that needs someone with the likes of your character and vice versa.
- you try soloing in DAOC and see how far you get, sure you CAN do it, and sure, you can progress but at a much slower pace then grouping, thereofre to utuilize your final goal in the qucikest means possible oyu ahve to group, and that's why the find a group feature is there, because the game "forces" you to group!
"and the quests are vague, and uniteresting"
The quests are not designed to hand you a reward on a silver plater. They are not given in cryptic clues nor are they given in "walkthrough" style. The are specific to what you need to do, who to talk to and where to go. If it were more simple than that, it would be uninteresting. However the diversity of the quests available to each specific class and the ones designed for every class, allow you character to better understand the lore behind DAOC, the different environments you travel through and the enemies you are liekly to face in the future.
- go find monster, and kill monster, then bring hide back, is not all that interesting, especially running around the same plot of land waiting for monster to spawn, as for the epic ones, sure they give you some insight into the lore, but to be quite honest you're better reading a book about the norse, hibernians, or the times of arthur, then paying attention to the poorly fabricated daoc lore. And furthermore, the epic quests, are utterly annoying as you go here, then go there, then do that, there's no real story behind them, noting to captivate, nothing to draw you in, it's half assed at best, but im sure that with the new expansion, all this will change
"There is little to no NPC interaction"
Who do you talk to when you initiate or continue on with a quest? Who do you talk to when you wish to travel from one settlement to the next? Who do you talk to when you wish to purchase something? Who do you talk to when you wish to train a skill? Anyone that has played DAOC, would have to agree that the above statement is false.
- i would hardly consider that interaction, but perhaps i should have made myslef clearer, NPC's that walk, get in the way, tell stories, answer questions, think Baldurs gate, or NWN npc's those are ideal, but even SWG, had more interesting npc's, i mean, there's hardly anything to do with them, you cant rob them, UO, you cand take them anywhere, they dont move, they are completely static. you can always find the same npc in the same place since the inception of the game till the day they take the servers off line, i mean it's plain boring, NPC's standing there like statues, animate them for pete's sake.
"the cities/villages are mundane"
DAOC does not revolve around cities or towns. What exactly are you wanting from a city/town that isnt already provided in this game? There are plenty available in each realm spread out rather accordingly in each "zone" offering reliable, usefule services for every character's needs. The Design of each settlement is also unique according to the surrounding environment. You never visit a settlement that looks the same as another. Nor do they offer the exact same services. Again, anyone that has played DAOC, would have to agree that the above statement is false.
- each one looks differnet? are you joing, if you mean miniscule differences here and there, sure, and sure the large cities look different, but the settlements, in at least the most part resemble each other. But aren't cities supposed to be places of commerce, of exchange, of services? Hustle and bustle? not in DAOC, nope! not there. they are dead, hardly anone is there, there is little commerce, other then some dude yelling to sell something, face it the game blows ass cheeks, thats that, and im not even going to go into the lack of customization of your avatar, clothing, armour, face, girth, etc... and please dont give me the expansionbull
For those still thinking about playing DAOC here's a quote from Jeremy Conrad of PC Games
"The question remains, should you play Dark Age of Camelot if you're already into EQ or AO? Well, if you want a game that is familiar enough to get you into it, yet different enough to keep you hooked, the answer is a definite yes. DAoC takes some "standards" that MMORPG fans expect to see, expands on them with some great new gameplay and interface elements, and wraps it all up in an interesting story and world.
This game is something that the MMORPG market needed, and it is also one that I will be playing for a long, long time to come."
If I listened to every shmuck who had something good to say about a game, id be swimming in boxes, and cd's containing more crap then good software code.
Now what wasthat other dude going to do to me???? Rip me a what? Bring it brotha!
Anwyas, play what you want it's your money, to me the game is pure and utter garbage, my oppinion, and you are entitled to yours, but all in all, id still like to know why you people like it, instead of giving my questions rebuttles, tell me what you like about it, because i just dont see what there is to like about the game. Thanks, for anyone who tells me what is most enjoyable about DAOC.
Dialogue is good, argument is meant for those who lack the ability of dialogue.
- i am www.eljacek.com -
------- Check out my side project http://lfger.com/ - a mobile lfg tool for any game, any time. -------
Originally posted by Malkavian Glove I never knew you played. Which server, which realm?
I play on Iseult, I picked Albion since those classes most closly resembeled EQ classes, and I was looking for a fair comparision to decide if I wanted to stop playing EQ for DAoC. (I only have time to play 1 MMORPG at a time)
I guess I could go on about DAoC, but most everything has already been said.
-=-=-=-=- Chess the orginal hardcore PvP game!
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here. Yee: Ach: 85% GRE: 65% AFF: 15% Imm 15% Test Click here to learn about it.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
I played horizons toward the end of beta. I thought it was increadibly boring, and even fell asleep playing it once (that has never happened to me before) . That being said, its not a bad game IMO. As said before, it will take a specific taste to enjoy the game. I feel that games without PVP are missing out on an increadible element.
btw, I found horizons pretty confusing to start off in. however, I knew how to change the resolution from the start
dude go for dark age of camelot.... I am not gonna slander Horizons cause i never played it but if you want a fun game its great. Of course eventually it will get boring like most mmo's but I liked it until 6 months playing it. I just got tired of it and i needed something new but theat is the average time many people play mmo's.
******************************* The anticipation of death is far worse than death itself...
from what ive heard about horizons ide pick dark age for you. although, the games seems to only keep you interested for a few months, as end game rvr is long range nukers+stealthers, bg3 is IMO the best time of the game. graphics are ok, chars sometimes look the same, but bg3 is just so much fun. also, relic raids are crap because people steal them at ungodly hours (like 2-5am)
Originally posted by sonicbrew First off every single MMO out on the market in the last 8 years has been repitivley speaking the same. There all treadmills wether it be adventuring or crafting. Nothing has been so overly dynamic to stand out and really grab the gaming world by its britches. They can only do so much and cater to so many types of players so with that said... I was a tester on DAOC for 2 years and next to EQ it was one of the best games out and I am sure it still is although I do not play or test it anymore. I am quite burned out on it but I lasted longer there than any other game including EQ ( 9 months after beta). DAOC had one of the better releases as well and the questing system is rather decent. Yes there are class's screwed up like every other game but what is new honestly. Mythic has never been able to get the balancing act down properly I am afraid and that is something that plagues nearly every MMO out there.
Hehe how did you beta test DAoC before EQ since EQ is 2 years older then DAoC and DAoC whole beta(assuming you were even one of the 50 internals they started with) did not last 2 years man .
But agreed with you on many issues concerning the games.
Comments
Having never played Horizons, I can't relate any personal experience. However, the consensus seems to be that the crafting system is one of the best, perhaps at the expense of other parts of the game, many of which have been listed in this post.
However I can speak from experience in regard to Dark Age of Camelot. This is the game in which I currently spend most of my playing time. It has all the marks of a mature MMOG and is full of content. The criticism that has been leveled at the ToA expansion is really immaterial to players under 45 or so, and what imbalances may exist only really show themselves in RvR. Mythic, however, is working on an update to RvR which will reportedly address the ToA changes and relevel the playing field.
I re-joined DAoC in November and have found it to be very newbie friendly. I have had no problem finding a group even in an underpopulated server realm (I play in Nimue/Hibernia). Again, I cannot criticize Horizons fairly, but I can recommend DAoC without reservation.
-----
Old timer.
I've played DAoC from Beta phase 2 until now, quite a long time, and I have played Horizons during beta and since release, both are good games, it really just comes down to what you as a person are looking for in a game, they both have pros and cons, all depends on whats important to you.
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
edit: I apologise for any spelling, and grammatical misappropriations i may have made in this post, was quite a long one
"Its a massive leveling trreadmill"
Most mmorpg's have a leveling tredmill. Some more than others.
- sure, even skill based ones, but not to te effect where most time is spent in a repetative action, of killing mobs to get to lvl 50, DAOC, kill some mobs, ding, move to different spot kill more mobs, ding, move to different spot, kill more mobs ding, etc... plain, uniteresting, a natural progression where you level by playing withouth thinking too much on leveling, now that's ideal, too bad daoc doesnt have that spark of interest to keep you playing naturally, without focusing on dinging
"with little to no special items"
There has always been plenty for each class at specific Levels. Even more Unique Items were introduced with the Trials of Atlantis Expansion. Including "God like" items called "Artifacts".
- i wouldnt really say plenty, a few per each class at best, and you argument for more in the expansion, well, should i play a game and wait for the expansion to get unique and interesting items? I think not, they should be included in the initial product, given expansions add to this, but come on, DAOC's items were just laughable, and easily attainable
"the dunegons are plain boring"
Did you restrict yourself to the starter dungeons, or did you venture forth to dungeons for levels 40+ and 50+? And if you purchased the TOA Expansion, then you would also have had the oppertunity to experience the new ones which can hardly be called "plain boring".
- ive played the lower level ones, and the higher level ones, and yes, they were "plain boring", and again, your argument here holds no merit, why should i go buy an expansion to play perhaps some improved dunegons when the inital product was, well how shall i put it, crap
"there is virtually no commuinity aside from being ina guild"
It takes many to make a community. It takes one to be part of that community.
- when the chat box is empty of all speech other then what the mob says, i'd consider this to be lacking of a comminty, when you try to speak to someone in spacial without a /tell, and not a person responds, i'd call this lacking in community, when in towns, which are meant to draw people in, fro quests, items, etc... no one utters a word, i'd call this lack of community, when approaching someone on the road who is attacking a mob, and all they say "my mob, back off" or a derivate there of, and this is not an isolated incident, i'd call this lack of community, can I stop or do you want me to provide more examples. Additionally, it was not server specific as i've tried many of them, and i do consider myself to be a fairly social, and kind person in game.
"the graphics are mediocre at best, even with the new exapnsion"
A review from PC Magazine states the following:
"One thing most players seem to agree on is that Trials of Atlantis has brought a substantial graphical improvement to the game. Trees finally look more realistic and hills have had protruding rocks added to give a more realistic view of the entire Camelot world. The biggest change to the game has to do with Camelot's lakes, rivers and bodies of water. Not only does water now look better in Trials of Atlantis, but players now have the ability to go underwater and play. "
Giving Graphics an 8/10 Vote with the Expansion TOA.
- if i listened to every decent or good review that each and every site out there gives the PC game market, i'd be broke, sitting under a pile of boxes, and cd's that could otherwise be considered as trash. and again you mention the expansion, SWG looks better, and as for the original AO, looked better and came out before daoc, if im not mistaken, and its not a sys req, as i played both witha voodoo 3 at one point in time.
"the land size is miniscule"
Not sure what gave you thaty idea. I was going to count each "zone" just to give you a number but I don't have time.
Go visit Daoc's Official "Map-A-Lot" at Camelot Herald and see for yourself how large the playing areas are and how many this game offers if you don't know or are not sure.
http://www.camelotherald.com/mapalot/atlas/index.php
- the area IS small, i found more nooks and crannies to discover in UO, then I ever did in the 6+ months i played DAoC, and yes all in all three zones (albeit willingly, god only knows what i must have been thinking), additionally limiting players to a "zone" is plain stupid in my oppinion, conquering a zome, and forcing the players of the losing side deeper and deeper into their zone, well that's a bit more interesting. too bad DAOC didn't think of that one.
"RvR is utterly pointless, and the rewards are insignificant."
Unless your character is lvl 45+, there is no point in you even attepting to experience Frontier RvR. Which is my only conclusion to your statement. Mythic has been focusing on the RvR aspect of their game for months now with their recent TOA Release. They are even "re-vamping" the entire RvR system in the coming months with their new FREE expansion "New Frontiers". If your not enjoying RvR as it is now, then i suggest you wait till the expansion.
- Done RvR with high level characters, and i stand by my initial statement, its utterly pointless, check the above rebuttle, and hey, maybe i've just given the devs of DAOC a new idea to make their game at least a bit interesting. But anyways, you use the argument, of wait for the "free" expansion, why should i wait for an already crappy porduct, that has been out for a number of years to get better, when there are better products that I could be testing and giving feedback on funtionality. Also the whole free thing, is a big whooptee dooo, as AO already did something like this, it's all a ploy to retain those customers who are already on the verge of leaving
"Forced grouping is tiresome and unecessary, and irritating when you need to find a group"
If your not a team player then solo. There are plenty of ways and means to do so with every offered class. Some are easier than others. DAOC also has a built in "find a group" feature to help locate a group that needs someone with the likes of your character and vice versa.
- you try soloing in DAOC and see how far you get, sure you CAN do it, and sure, you can progress but at a much slower pace then grouping, thereofre to utuilize your final goal in the qucikest means possible oyu ahve to group, and that's why the find a group feature is there, because the game "forces" you to group!
"and the quests are vague, and uniteresting"
The quests are not designed to hand you a reward on a silver plater. They are not given in cryptic clues nor are they given in "walkthrough" style. The are specific to what you need to do, who to talk to and where to go. If it were more simple than that, it would be uninteresting. However the diversity of the quests available to each specific class and the ones designed for every class, allow you character to better understand the lore behind DAOC, the different environments you travel through and the enemies you are liekly to face in the future.
- go find monster, and kill monster, then bring hide back, is not all that interesting, especially running around the same plot of land waiting for monster to spawn, as for the epic ones, sure they give you some insight into the lore, but to be quite honest you're better reading a book about the norse, hibernians, or the times of arthur, then paying attention to the poorly fabricated daoc lore. And furthermore, the epic quests, are utterly annoying as you go here, then go there, then do that, there's no real story behind them, noting to captivate, nothing to draw you in, it's half assed at best, but im sure that with the new expansion, all this will change
"There is little to no NPC interaction"
Who do you talk to when you initiate or continue on with a quest? Who do you talk to when you wish to travel from one settlement to the next? Who do you talk to when you wish to purchase something? Who do you talk to when you wish to train a skill?
Anyone that has played DAOC, would have to agree that the above statement is false.
- i would hardly consider that interaction, but perhaps i should have made myslef clearer, NPC's that walk, get in the way, tell stories, answer questions, think Baldurs gate, or NWN npc's those are ideal, but even SWG, had more interesting npc's, i mean, there's hardly anything to do with them, you cant rob them, UO, you cand take them anywhere, they dont move, they are completely static. you can always find the same npc in the same place since the inception of the game till the day they take the servers off line, i mean it's plain boring, NPC's standing there like statues, animate them for pete's sake.
"the cities/villages are mundane"
DAOC does not revolve around cities or towns. What exactly are you wanting from a city/town that isnt already provided in this game? There are plenty available in each realm spread out rather accordingly in each "zone" offering reliable, usefule services for every character's needs. The Design of each settlement is also unique according to the surrounding environment. You never visit a settlement that looks the same as another. Nor do they offer the exact same services.
Again, anyone that has played DAOC, would have to agree that the above statement is false.
- each one looks differnet? are you joing, if you mean miniscule differences here and there, sure, and sure the large cities look different, but the settlements, in at least the most part resemble each other. But aren't cities supposed to be places of commerce, of exchange, of services? Hustle and bustle? not in DAOC, nope! not there. they are dead, hardly anone is there, there is little commerce, other then some dude yelling to sell something, face it the game blows ass cheeks, thats that, and im not even going to go into the lack of customization of your avatar, clothing, armour, face, girth, etc... and please dont give me the expansion bull
For those still thinking about playing DAOC here's a quote from Jeremy Conrad of PC Games
"The question remains, should you play Dark Age of Camelot if you're already into EQ or AO? Well, if you want a game that is familiar enough to get you into it, yet different enough to keep you hooked, the answer is a definite yes. DAoC takes some "standards" that MMORPG fans expect to see, expands on them with some great new gameplay and interface elements, and wraps it all up in an interesting story and world.
This game is something that the MMORPG market needed, and it is also one that I will be playing for a long, long time to come."
If I listened to every shmuck who had something good to say about a game, id be swimming in boxes, and cd's containing more crap then good software code.
Now what was that other dude going to do to me???? Rip me a what? Bring it brotha!
Anwyas, play what you want it's your money, to me the game is pure and utter garbage, my oppinion, and you are entitled to yours, but all in all, id still like to know why you people like it, instead of giving my questions rebuttles, tell me what you like about it, because i just dont see what there is to like about the game. Thanks, for anyone who tells me what is most enjoyable about DAOC.
Dialogue is good, argument is meant for those who lack the ability of dialogue.
- i am www.eljacek.com -
-------
Check out my side project http://lfger.com/ - a mobile lfg tool for any game, any time.
-------
Horizons is not much than an empty hulla tm. Give it 6 months.
Agreed. I beta tested the last stages and Horizons is a horrid excuse of a game.
Star Wars Galaxies (crafting, crafting and more crafting with empty "we will be adding it soon" promises)
+
Shadowbane (ugggly and very little content which requires the player to make it up)
= Horizons
I play on Iseult, I picked Albion since those classes most closly resembeled EQ classes, and I was looking for a fair comparision to decide if I wanted to stop playing EQ for DAoC. (I only have time to play 1 MMORPG at a time)
I guess I could go on about DAoC, but most everything has already been said.
-=-=-=-=-
Chess the orginal hardcore PvP game!
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.
Yee: Ach: 85% GRE: 65% AFF: 15% Imm 15% Test Click here to learn about it.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
I played horizons toward the end of beta. I thought it was increadibly boring, and even fell asleep playing it once (that has never happened to me before)
. That being said, its not a bad game IMO. As said before, it will take a specific taste to enjoy the game. I feel that games without PVP are missing out on an increadible element.
btw, I found horizons pretty confusing to start off in. however, I knew how to change the resolution from the start
*******************************
The anticipation of death is far worse than death itself...
[img]http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/images/banner.gif[img]
********************************
If you wait to do something until the last minute, your more efficient since it will only take 1 minute.
DAoC for sure.
In short any game after 2001 does not hold a candle to games like EQ or DAoC.
SWG,FF XI,horizons,shadowbane are all poor games compared to those 2.
Hehe how did you beta test DAoC before EQ since EQ is 2 years older then DAoC and DAoC whole beta(assuming you were even one of the 50 internals they started with) did not last 2 years man .
But agreed with you on many issues concerning the games.