Originally posted by Copeland No i'm in no way joking. You fail to differentiate between the acts of religion and the acts of individuals. In no way did a central religion contribute. Sure there were individuals who believed in a religion that did good things. There are individuals who believed in a religion and did bad things. But i'm talking about religiously sponsored things. Such as the mass genocide of mexican natives that was indeed ordered and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic church. The systematic destruction by priests of native history. There were infact large library like temples in Mexico and South America that contained history and culture of natives carved on wood tablets that were burned by the hands of priests themselves. Priest are the religion. They are part of its structure and they are its leaders. I don't expect you to study history. You're clearly fooled by religion. Nothing i say will unbrainwash you. Read a book - not a religious one.
I think you are grossly misinformed. I can't speak for other religions. But in christianity.. in almost every church there are church sponsored programs that help the community... Whether it's teaching people how to read... providing food/shelter for the poor... helping foreign countries that aren't even christian.. by building schools... and hospitals... All kind of stuff like that..
It is people doing these things.. but they are church people.. and the "things" they are doing are sponsored by the church....
And you say that religion is bad because chatholics destroyed those ancient writings in mexico... TAKE A WILD GUESS WHO WROTE THEM... Aztec priests... Religion has given so much to the world... and no no one is perfect.. But you are again just seeing things from one pin point angle... this is what you sound like "well christians authorized the killings of millions of people soo religion is bad...
Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
And do you really think Catholics are the worst? Have you studied what some of the other religions have done to each other? or specifically to catholics? You say catholics are the worst.. not because you think so.. but more because you probably dont know much else.. about other religions in other parts of the world and how they affect each other... I cant blame you though..
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by Copeland No i'm in no way joking. You fail to differentiate between the acts of religion and the acts of individuals. In no way did a central religion contribute. Sure there were individuals who believed in a religion that did good things. There are individuals who believed in a religion and did bad things. But i'm talking about religiously sponsored things. Such as the mass genocide of mexican natives that was indeed ordered and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic church. The systematic destruction by priests of native history. There were infact large library like temples in Mexico and South America that contained history and culture of natives carved on wood tablets that were burned by the hands of priests themselves. Priest are the religion. They are part of its structure and they are its leaders. I don't expect you to study history. You're clearly fooled by religion. Nothing i say will unbrainwash you. Read a book - not a religious one. I think you are grossly misinformed. I can't speak for other religions. But in christianity.. in almost every church there are church sponsored programs that help the community... Whether it's teaching people how to read... providing food/shelter for the poor... helping foreign countries that aren't even christian.. by building schools... and hospitals... All kind of stuff like that..It is people doing these things.. but they are church people.. and the "things" they are doing are sponsored by the church.... And you say that religion is bad because chatholics destroyed those ancient writings in mexico... TAKE A WILD GUESS WHO WROTE THEM... Aztec priests... Religion has given so much to the world... and no no one is perfect.. But you are again just seeing things from one pin point angle... this is what you sound like "well christians authorized the killings of millions of people soo religion is bad...Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
Muslims kill people, Jews kill people, Christians kill people, Hindi kill people. Every religion has killed people. It's hard to know who wrote the ancient aztec texts as they don't exist anymore and they are lost forever.
White people kill people, Asians kill people, Black people kill people. All equally. All indiscriminately at times.
Some people do good things and when they are part of a religion that religions claims those things. But is that contributing an advancement? There were governments before religion. There were arts before religion. There are programs for the needy, illiterate, disabled and insane without religion. Yes modern religions do contribute to some good in this world, but are they promoting advancements such as Stem Cell research and cloning? No but i'm sure one of their followers will make a breakthrough and 200 years from now someone will be saying "a christian made the largest breakthrough on cloning so how can you say that the church isn't progressive?"
We haven't even touched on the prejudice that religion brings. The enabling of self righteous thinking in the name of something more powerful.
No i'm in no way joking. You fail to differentiate between the acts of religion and the acts of individuals. In no way did a central religion contribute. Sure there were individuals who believed in a religion that did good things. There are individuals who believed in a religion and did bad things. But i'm talking about religiously sponsored things. Such as the mass genocide of mexican natives that was indeed ordered and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic church. The systematic destruction by priests of native history. There were infact large library like temples in Mexico and South America that contained history and culture of natives carved on wood tablets that were burned by the hands of priests themselves. Priest are the religion. They are part of its structure and they are its leaders. I don't expect you to study history. You're clearly fooled by religion. Nothing i say will unbrainwash you. Read a book - not a religious one. I could type a book here. I've studied the effect of religion. Is it good or bad. I've spent years on it. I'm only listing the most glaring examples of the corruption that is religion. Yes its easy to pick on Catholics because they've been the worst throughout history but ALL RELIGIONS - EACH AND EVERY ONE have similar atrocities. The individual contributes while the church twists the the truth and claims its only because of that individuals faith that the accomplishment was made. As for binding us together with rituals i'll have to disagree. Rituals like body mutilation? Rituals that exclude those who have strayed from the religions teachings such as suicide or abortion? Religion is self righteous and only panders to those who don't question.
I find it Funny the double standards you have placed on things... You think when someone does something good... it's the person not the religion... but when someone does something bad... well then blame the religion... If one person (the pope) says that there will be a war against the arabs... Are you going to call all those christians evil for fighting? Let me put it in "now" terms George Bush says there is a war against in Iraq... Are you going to call those americans fighting evil for killing all those arabs? Or is that different? Oh thats acceptable? ohhh okk i see..
I think that you are just angry at religion for some reason.... lol so now you say Body mutilation... and then say excluding rituals that divide like suicide or abortion... So I dont know what you are saying... Who are you trying to blame? Different religions have different things to them... some like suicide.. some dont..
Do people who are not religious commit the same atrocities as religious folks? Religion doesn't force anyone to kill anyone... In fact in most religions it says do NOT kill... so when people kill in the sake of religion.. from now on know that, that is not the fault of the religion but the fault of the person....
Do you know what an intentional fallacy is? Basically it says that just because someone says what their meaning behind an action or article or book is something... you cannot judge the book/action by what they say... you have to judge the book/action... by the book/action..
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
I think you are grossly misinformed. I can't speak for other religions. But in christianity.. in almost every church there are church sponsored programs that help the community... Whether it's teaching people how to read... providing food/shelter for the poor... helping foreign countries that aren't even christian.. by building schools... and hospitals... All kind of stuff like that..
And there are also church-sponsored programs that teach people that their religion is right and everyone else's is wrong, gay people are engaged in evil acts and are great sinners, etc. The church breeds an attitude of intolerance toward everything that disagrees with the teachings of the church, and this is absolutely endemic among Christians in the United States at the moment.
And you say that religion is bad because chatholics destroyed those ancient writings in mexico... TAKE A WILD GUESS WHO WROTE THEM... Aztec priests... Religion has given so much to the world... and no no one is perfect.. But you are again just seeing things from one pin point angle... this is what you sound like "well christians authorized the killings of millions of people soo religion is bad...
Every religion has generated atrocities at one time or other, and every religion in its ascendancy has sought to consolidate itself, to snuff out other ways of viewing things, and to monopolise control over social mores and morals, modes of behavior and the like. It's in the nature of religion. And the current example of evangelical Christians in the United States is in complete continuity with this legacy of control.
Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
The difference is that these atrocities were committed in the name of the religion. The Crusades were done to liberate the holy land from the Muslim infidels ... it was considered to be God's will. The raping and pillaging of the Aztec and Mayan holy sites and historical writings was also considered to be God's will because it facilitated the more complete conversion of the native americans to European Christianity. It's all been done in the name of the Christian God. He has a lot of blood on his hands, thanks to the church.
And do you really think Catholics are the worst? Have you studied what some of the other religions have done to each other? or specifically to catholics? You say catholics are the worst.. not because you think so.. but more because you probably dont know much else.. about other religions in other parts of the world and how they affect each other... I cant blame you though..
I think all religions are equally bad in terms of what they would seek to do with power to do it. Catholicism was in a unique position because of the Spanish reconquest, the counter-reformation and the initial push of colonialism all happening at more or less the same time, which resulted in a huge spread of Catholicism to far-flung parts of the world by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. So while I agree that all religions seek to control and are ultimately negative in terms of basic human dignity and freedom of action, the Catholic Church has enjoyed a unique position of power due to these historical realities, and this has certainly allowed it to consoliate power and exercise influuence in a unique way.
Muslims kill people, Jews kill people, Christians kill people, Hindi kill people. Every religion has killed people. It's hard to know who wrote the ancient aztec texts as they don't exist anymore and they are lost forever. White people kill people, Asians kill people, Black people kill people. All equally. All indiscriminately at times. Some people do good things and when they are part of a religion that religions claims those things. But is that contributing an advancement? There were governments before religion. There were arts before religion. There are programs for the needy, illiterate, disabled and insane without religion. Yes modern religions do contribute to some good in this world, but are they promoting advancements such as Stem Cell research and cloning? No but i'm sure one of their followers will make a breakthrough and 200 years from now someone will be saying "a christian made the largest breakthrough on cloning so how can you say that the church isn't progressive?" We haven't even touched on the prejudice that religion brings. The enabling of self righteous thinking in the name of something more powerful. Keep thinking.
No religion came before government. There ARE programs for the needy without religion... but the first people to do this were religious folks... who cared for their neighbors... No you have it the wrong way... Its not that people do something good and then the religion claims it... Churches incourage, train, develop people specifically to go out and do this stuff.... But the church really incourages these programs... yes the church is run by people... but that is what the definition of a church is.. a buncha people... Its not when an individual says... Hey you know what... I feel like going to ruwanda... And then he goes.. and if its successfull then they help... It's like a church (group of people) decide... they are going to start helping people... things start moving... They start looking for people who would be willing to learn... They help them... train them to be leaders.. provide them with the tools... and then send the person away with a group of others with the same will...
There will always be prejudice... If its not religion... its skin color.. if its not skin then it's eye color... then hair color... then the color of your gums... Or as a lessor scale just look at schools... there is prejudice between children for the simplest things.. what type of shoes/shirts/clothes you wear... then... where your talents lie... If you are in the chess club... jock... popular... goth... There are prejudices everywhere ... not only religion... Religion doesn't "bring" prejudice "people" do...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by Copeland No i'm in no way joking. You fail to differentiate between the acts of religion and the acts of individuals. In no way did a central religion contribute. Sure there were individuals who believed in a religion that did good things. There are individuals who believed in a religion and did bad things. But i'm talking about religiously sponsored things. Such as the mass genocide of mexican natives that was indeed ordered and sanctioned by the Roman Catholic church. The systematic destruction by priests of native history. There were infact large library like temples in Mexico and South America that contained history and culture of natives carved on wood tablets that were burned by the hands of priests themselves. Priest are the religion. They are part of its structure and they are its leaders. I don't expect you to study history. You're clearly fooled by religion. Nothing i say will unbrainwash you. Read a book - not a religious one. I could type a book here. I've studied the effect of religion. Is it good or bad. I've spent years on it. I'm only listing the most glaring examples of the corruption that is religion. Yes its easy to pick on Catholics because they've been the worst throughout history but ALL RELIGIONS - EACH AND EVERY ONE have similar atrocities. The individual contributes while the church twists the the truth and claims its only because of that individuals faith that the accomplishment was made. As for binding us together with rituals i'll have to disagree. Rituals like body mutilation? Rituals that exclude those who have strayed from the religions teachings such as suicide or abortion? Religion is self righteous and only panders to those who don't question. I find it Funny the double standards you have placed on things... You think when someone does something good... it's the person not the religion... but when someone does something bad... well then blame the religion... If one person (the pope) says that there will be a war against the arabs... Are you going to call all those christians evil for fighting? Let me put it in "now" terms George Bush says there is a war against in Iraq... Are you going to call those americans fighting evil for killing all those arabs? Or is that different? Oh thats acceptable? ohhh okk i see..I think that you are just angry at religion for some reason.... lol so now you say Body mutilation... and then say excluding rituals that divide like suicide or abortion... So I dont know what you are saying... Who are you trying to blame? Different religions have different things to them... some like suicide.. some dont..Do people who are not religious commit the same atrocities as religious folks? Religion doesn't force anyone to kill anyone... In fact in most religions it says do NOT kill... so when people kill in the sake of religion.. from now on know that, that is not the fault of the religion but the fault of the person....Do you know what an intentional fallacy is? Basically it says that just because someone says what their meaning behind an action or article or book is something... you cannot judge the book/action by what they say... you have to judge the book/action... by the book/action..
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions. "it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive. As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Religion and its sects may vary in what they believe. For instance Muhamed and Jesus are both anti war to the extreme. Yet they have their sects of islam and christianity who believe they should purge the earth of all non believers ie al qaeda and catholicism.
I'm not trying to blame anyone. We all have our beliefs. I'm just saying that if you believe in the institution of religion you're not really believing in the entity that religion is based on. If you were you wouldn't need the religion only the teachings.
I don't believe in god. I don't believe in religion. I believe religion is the crutch of immature souls.
Originally posted by Novaseeker And there are also church-sponsored programs that teach people that their religion is right and everyone else's is wrong, gay people are engaged in evil acts and are great sinners, etc. The church breeds an attitude of intolerance toward everything that disagrees with the teachings of the church, and this is absolutely endemic among Christians in the United States at the moment.
There are Communist-sponsored programs that teach people that their government is right, and everyone else's is wrong. There are Democratic-sponsored programs that teach people that their government is right, and communist government is wrong. There are Republican-sponsored programs that teach people that their form of control is better than democratic. And just because someone thinks something is wrong doesn't mean they are brooding in intolerance... Please lets not turn this into another gay/straight thread. CLEARLY someone thinks that Religion itself in no way helps anyone.. So i am posting different... We really dont need to get into what christians think is right and wrong...
Every religion has generated atrocities at one time or other, and every religion in its ascendancy has sought to consolidate itself, to snuff out other ways of viewing things, and to monopolise control over social mores and morals, modes of behavior and the like. It's in the nature of religion. And the current example of evangelical Christians in the United States is in complete continuity with this legacy of control.
What you are talking about there isn't limited to religion. Every organized group's intention is to gain support.. and "snuff" out people that disagree..
The difference is that these atrocities were committed in the name of the religion. The Crusades were done to liberate the holy land from the Muslim infidels ... it was considered to be God's will. The raping and pillaging of the Aztec and Mayan holy sites and historical writings was also considered to be God's will because it facilitated the more complete conversion of the native americans to European Christianity. It's all been done in the name of the Christian God. He has a lot of blood on his hands, thanks to the church.
I already talked about intentional fallacies... I can kill my mom and tell everyone that I did it in the name of MMORPG.com... So who is wrong here MMORPG.com? or me for killing someone who doesn't like MMORPGs.
I think all religions are equally bad in terms of what they would seek to do with power to do it. Catholicism was in a unique position because of the Spanish reconquest, the counter-reformation and the initial push of colonialism all happening at more or less the same time, which resulted in a huge spread of Catholicism to far-flung parts of the world by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. So while I agree that all religions seek to control and are ultimately negative in terms of basic human dignity and freedom of action, the Catholic Church has enjoyed a unique position of power due to these historical realities, and this has certainly allowed it to consoliate power and exercise influuence in a unique way.
That is true...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
I am a Christian. As the years go by, people seem to be questioning religion more and more just because they don't have their "proof" about it. I don't need proof, because I have faith. Faith in God. Everywhere in the New Testament after the Gospels you continually see (especially in the letters Paul wrote) the authors telling us to have faith in Jesus Christ. God knows that we are, as humans, very curious and want to know how everything works. As such, there are people today who think believing in God is a fairy tale for little kids. I know that science is not going to solve everything. Sure, it is great to be able to make all of these advances in medicine, engineering, etc., but science will not solve why we are here. This is where faith comes in. I believe in God and know that what is said in the Bible is true, and the prophesies will come to pass.
I know that most of the people who have posted here are not Christians or don't believe in a God at all, and I respect your decision. Like someone said earlier, we can't force our religion on others, and Jesus never wanted us to do that. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong in just having faith.
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions. "it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive. As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Well back in those days the Pope and the papacy was kinda like a government... And Jesus never said to follow the words of the Pope... Jesus never even talked about institutionalizing the church...
So you are saying that all those people are evil for following the command of the pope and subsequently the kings/ barrons/earls of their country? How is that different from people fighting in Iraq right now? People aren't there because they WANT to kill.. THey are there because they were ordered to. The bible does say though that the blood of a war are on the hands of the leader.
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions. "it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive. As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning. Well back in those days the Pope and the papacy was kinda like a government...And Jesus never said to follow the words of the Pope... Jesus never even talked about institutionalizing the church... So you are saying that all those people are evil for following the command of the pope and subsequently the kings/ barrons/earls of their country? How is that different from people fighting in Iraq right now? People aren't there because they WANT to kill.. THey are there because they were ordered to.The bible does say though that the blood of a war are on the hands of the leader.
Where exactly did i say that? I said any christian that goes to war is sinning. I never said if you follow the pope your evil. I don't even believe in evil.
Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one.
Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one.
Translation... Thou shall not Murder --> There is a difference. Like when a miltary person shoots an enemy that is killing for war... but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder. Thats why civilian casualties are such a big thing to us.
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by Copeland Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one. Translation... Thou shall not Murder --> There is a difference. Like when a miltary person shoots an enemy that is killing for war... but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder. Thats why civilian casualties are such a big thing to us.
Thats a piss poor translation that totally leaves out the context of the entire lesson of Exodus.
Who did the jews kill to win their freedom? NOBODY.
What war did they wage? NONE
They were slaves. They according to modern thought had every reason to fight for their freedom. But yet for some reason they didn't? Oh i see that reason would be their teachings that it's wrong to take a life. Thats right they sat there. They did nothing. They had faith and GOD delivered them. Yes thats right GOD delivered them and they never had to fight. SEE THE MORAL OF THE STORY? THATS WHAT FAITH IS ABOUT.
The earliest christians believed in the pacifism of jesus that they didn't even fight to save their own lives when being fed to lions. They cast aside the small weapons the romans gave them so they could be entertained. They just stood there and died.
But now today religion (those in POWER) wants to twist those facts and tell you "oh no um what Moses really meant was don't murder your neighbor but um yeah if its somebody the church deems an infidel or evil... well thats ok!"
Do you see now the way they twist those teaching to fit their need. Thats why the Catholic church's beliefs change over several generations. It used to be alright to turn in your neighbor for having a copy of the bible and watch him be burned at the stake as a heretic because back then only the clergy was allowed to read the bible. Keep the masses stupid and they're easier to lead. Ofcourse the cat was let out of the bag and people started reading the bible leading to the first great schism of the catholic church.
As stated before i'm using catholicism becasue its easier. More people are aware of its history than say that of Karma and Dharma.
edit - what's even more comical is the base that all the middle eastern religions started from. It's principal concept was that it was wrong to even define god. Saying "he" "him" "god" was all sin as to label god was to limit him to that concept whereas they believe that god was infinite so even to reference him was bad. Even to say God is everywhere and everything limits him only to everywhere and everything. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all started there. They were then twisted and perverted by "translation" such as the above quote to where we are today.
Think your religion is real and the word of god? I suggest you find out where your religion really came from.
I can stand toe to toe with the pope arguing theology and god but ultimately it's pointless. Those who have faith can not be argued out of it. It's a mental illness that only time will take care of.
Couldnt agree more, Jesus was a pacifist in every sense of the word. Today's christians are anything but Pacifist, they are militant and if the neo conservatives are an example a very warlike group.
Why is it they say they follow Jesus Christ and yet dont actually follow his teachings of love and forgiveness. With them its, kill every criminal, take an aggressive war mongering stance on world politics and condemn people in general?
Originally posted by Scorpes Couldnt agree more, Jesus was a pacifist in every sense of the word. Today's christians are anything but Pacifist, they are militant and if the neo conservatives are an example a very warlike group. Why is it they say they follow Jesus Christ and yet dont actually follow his teachings of love and forgiveness. With them its, kill every criminal, take an aggressive war mongering stance on world politics and condemn people in general?
What would you expect from neo-con Christians. They're of the ilk of the Puritans. Just look what they did to the indians and the "witches". Kind of ironic that Ann Coulter would be using that term again.
Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, and others tried to set us on the path to enlightenment, but the neo-cons just won't let go of the old ways.
We need another age of enlightment desperatly. We're slowly slipping into another dark age and noone see's it. When superstition, suspicion, hatred, greed, ignorance, rule the day.
Originally posted by Scorpes We need another age of enlightment desperatly. We're slowly slipping into another dark age and noone see's it. When superstition, suspicion, hatred, greed, ignorance, rule the day.
Indeed, the modern society has made it easy to spread bugus around the world, and people are more willing to swallow it than they have been in a long time. More and more people believe in quasi science, more and more people grow superstitious and more and more people become religious...
We're on a dangerous route here...
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
And there are also church-sponsored programs that teach people that their religion is right and everyone else's is wrong, gay people are engaged in evil acts and are great sinners, etc. The church breeds an attitude of intolerance toward everything that disagrees with the teachings of the church, and this is absolutely endemic among Christians in the United States at the moment.
Oh my...Non-relative morals. Truely such intolerance is an unbearable stain on the cloth of Christianity!
Every religion has generated atrocities at one time or other, and every religion in its ascendancy has sought to consolidate itself, to snuff out other ways of viewing things, and to monopolise control over social mores and morals, modes of behavior and the like. It's in the nature of religion. And the current example of evangelical Christians in the United States is in complete continuity with this legacy of control.
Control? Last time I checked, everyone was free to practise any religion they so choose.
Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
The difference is that these atrocities were committed in the name of the religion. The Crusades were done to liberate the holy land from the Muslim infidels ... it was considered to be God's will.
Well they were also done to push back the offense of the Muslim advances upon "Christian" soil, if you will.
Muslims sweeping through europe, who yah gonna call? Crusaders!
The raping and pillaging of the Aztec and Mayan holy sites and historical writings was also considered to be God's will because it facilitated the more complete conversion of the native americans to European Christianity.
Well actually they also thought alot of them were sick Barbarians because they had human sacrifices and they thought that was an extreme evil.
Which I'd be kind of inclined to agree with them.
It's all been done in the name of the Christian God. He has a lot of blood on his hands, thanks to the church.
And do you really think Catholics are the worst? Have you studied what some of the other religions have done to each other? or specifically to catholics? You say catholics are the worst.. not because you think so.. but more because you probably dont know much else.. about other religions in other parts of the world and how they affect each other... I cant blame you though..
I think all religions are equally bad in terms of what they would seek to do with power to do it. Catholicism was in a unique position because of the Spanish reconquest, the counter-reformation and the initial push of colonialism all happening at more or less the same time, which resulted in a huge spread of Catholicism to far-flung parts of the world by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. So while I agree that all religions seek to control and are ultimately negative in terms of basic human dignity and freedom of action, the Catholic Church has enjoyed a unique position of power due to these historical realities, and this has certainly allowed it to consoliate power and exercise influuence in a unique way.
Originally posted by Copeland
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions.
No he didn't...
"it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive.
Sure...Too bad it's no where in the bible.
As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Guess all of our forefathers were evil for fighting for their independence, eh? Or at least the Christian ones were.
Religion and its sects may vary in what they believe. For instance Muhamed and Jesus are both anti war to the extreme.
No, and No. Muhammad was a man of war. Conquest of Mecca, anyone?
Do you even do ANY research at all?
Yet they have their sects of islam and christianity who believe they should purge the earth of all non believers ie al qaeda and catholicism.
Al Qaeda isn't a religious sect.
And last time I checked, Catholics weren't starting another Inquisition.
I'm not trying to blame anyone. We all have our beliefs. I'm just saying that if you believe in the institution of religion you're not really believing in the entity that religion is based on. If you were you wouldn't need the religion only the teachings.
I don't believe in god. I don't believe in religion. I believe religion is the crutch of immature souls.
That's an enlightened outlook...
Originally posted by Copeland
Thats a piss poor translation that totally leaves out the context of the entire lesson of Exodus.
Who did the jews kill to win their freedom? NOBODY.
Nah, God just did it for them.
What war did they wage? NONE
Amorites, Hittites, Caanites(sp?), all those "ites". The complete elimination of every soul in what was then Israel.
Honestly...Stop, get away from the computer - Or don't. Just do some research.
They were slaves. They according to modern thought had every reason to fight for their freedom. But yet for some reason they didn't? Oh i see that reason would be their teachings that it's wrong to take a life. Thats right they sat there. They did nothing. They had faith and GOD delivered them. Yes thats right GOD delivered them and they never had to fight. SEE THE MORAL OF THE STORY? THATS WHAT FAITH IS ABOUT.
...You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.
The earliest christians believed in the pacifism of jesus that they didn't even fight to save their own lives when being fed to lions. They cast aside the small weapons the romans gave them so they could be entertained. They just stood there and died.
...Now it's just starting to get sad...
But now today religion (those in POWER) wants to twist those facts and tell you "oh no um what Moses really meant was don't murder your neighbor but um yeah if its somebody the church deems an infidel or evil... well thats ok!"
Do you see now the way they twist those teaching to fit their need. Thats why the Catholic church's beliefs change over several generations. It used to be alright to turn in your neighbor for having a copy of the bible and watch him be burned at the stake as a heretic because back then only the clergy was allowed to read the bible. Keep the masses stupid and they're easier to lead. Ofcourse the cat was let out of the bag and people started reading the bible leading to the first great schism of the catholic church.
As stated before i'm using catholicism becasue its easier. More people are aware of its history than say that of Karma and Dharma.
edit - what's even more comical is the base that all the middle eastern religions started from. It's principal concept was that it was wrong to even define god. Saying "he" "him" "god" was all sin as to label god was to limit him to that concept whereas they believe that god was infinite so even to reference him was bad. Even to say God is everywhere and everything limits him only to everywhere and everything. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all started there. They were then twisted and perverted by "translation" such as the above quote to where we are today.
Think your religion is real and the word of god? I suggest you find out where your religion really came from.
I can stand toe to toe with the pope arguing theology and god but ultimately it's pointless. Those who have faith can not be argued out of it. It's a mental illness that only time will take care of.
And more enlightened statements. You're truely a wise man.
Originally posted by Scorpes
Couldnt agree more, Jesus was a pacifist in every sense of the word.
Must of missed this passage: (Mat 10:34 KJV) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Today's christians are anything but Pacifist, they are militant and if the neo conservatives are an example a very warlike group.
Why is it they say they follow Jesus Christ and yet dont actually follow his teachings of love and forgiveness. With them its, kill every criminal, take an aggressive war mongering stance on world politics and condemn people in general?
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
ALL RELIGIONS - EACH AND EVERY ONE have similar atrocities
A religion, I think, cannot contribute good or evil. I've thought of a religion as a set of beliefs and teachings with an ultimate Being (true or false) at its heart. The individual has to act upon the religion to contribute either good or bad. And seeing that most religions out there support a benevolent doctrine, it depends on the individual's use and interpretation of their knowledge to contribute to society what they will.
I find that it's usually the uneducated person, who seeks selfishly to derive a purpose in their life from their religion, who is at fault. So religion (or most) in my opinion has not contributed anything other than a system of beliefs and teachings. Most religions offer hope and a guideline to improve your physical life; it just depends on how you use your religion that determines how you affect the world.
I have my beliefs (of which I should get around to writing down so that I can remember them all ) which tell me that the good of this life is only temporary and that the good of the other life should be ultimately worked for. I also believe that when one works for the good of the other life, this life will usually benefit from it since the two lives are but one linked chronicle of existence. I believe in right and wrong. I believe in winners and losers in this story. I also believe in the potential for everyone to learn the truth. In my mind, when someone works for the good of this life, it's no more than someone sacrificing their future for the here and now. And in this case, the high doesn't last 80 years and cost an eternity; it lasts a few hours and starts going down hill.
As a side note, I don't buy into the 'no pain, no gain' despair-breeding philosophy of this world. If you live a good life, then you live a better life. Suffering is not a thing to be sought after; it comes on its own. I would respect a society whose ideals bound honor to peace more than equating one's honor to their sorrow-stricken life. That said, I don't buy into a philosophy which proffers little hope. I can understand the atheistic view of the universe - one of infinite regression. We've seen it from the boulder to a grain of sand to an atom. But given what we know I'll give religion the benefit of the doubt and continue my search (an infinite God could certainly create an infinite creation). I'd rather believe in a God of the gaps in the meantime than godlessness which is a gap in itself.
I think that it is possible that life can come about by chance occurrence, but is there evidence in this universe that demonstrates that it has? Certainly the possibility of this happening is very slim and I would likely rule it out entirely if the universe's ability to proliferate life turns out to be finite by barriers of time, mass, or other physical characteristics.
Further aside, there are few people I respect more than devout Jews (save, devout Jewish Christians). Since Christianity has its roots in Judaism, it should not forsake its heritage but embrace it to better understand itself. I would count it a great gain to learn more of God in general from Jewish Christians if anyone should feel the need to enlighten me.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Originally posted by reavo Originally posted by Scorpes Couldnt agree more, Jesus was a pacifist in every sense of the word. Today's christians are anything but Pacifist, they are militant and if the neo conservatives are an example a very warlike group. Why is it they say they follow Jesus Christ and yet dont actually follow his teachings of love and forgiveness. With them its, kill every criminal, take an aggressive war mongering stance on world politics and condemn people in general?
What would you expect from neo-con Christians. They're of the ilk of the Puritans. Just look what they did to the indians and the "witches". Kind of ironic that Ann Coulter would be using that term again.
Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, and others tried to set us on the path to enlightenment, but the neo-cons just won't let go of the old ways.
Hmmmm... You're right. I never thought of that. Good observation. There are so many ways that I disagree with her.
You ever wonder if Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and the others are trying to make their place in the history books much the same way that characters like George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards did with the Great Awakening?
Although, if I were one of them, I wouldn't really want some of the quotes they've made to go down in the history about me. I kind of want to be remembered as having a little more tact and grace.
If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Depends on why you are fighting the war and what tactics you use. The greatest of all wars is the war for one's eternal life and there is no wrong in fighting it.
but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder
It seems that I remember instances in Scripture where armies would kill off entire cities - not just the soldiers - as a strategy. If you don't want unnecessary deaths or conflict in the future, might as well wipe clean any ties to one's enemies so that their posterity don't later get the crazy idea in their heads that they need avenge a five-thousand-year-old conflict which ended in disgrace to their distant ancestors and remote bloodline. Just a thought, but I think that the old world, in part, practiced this strategy. If you enslave your enemy, look what happens later... If you let them live but continue to occupy the land that was once theirs, look what happens... I'm not strictly against genocide, but I am quite wary of it. I would generally oppose its practice by any nation of men acting on their own ideals.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Wankler Think about this. In the history of man, more people have been killed in the name of a god/religion than for any other single cause.
Do you have Proof? Or are you just spouting revisionist history?
Religion is just an excuse used by those in power, always has been. Religion itself has caused very little.
Originally posted by moptopRPG Ok I have a simple question for all you people who come to this site, who is Christian and who is not. I still will respect everyone, I am just wondering because of posts I have been reading if you dont mind just answer my poll yes or no. I am Christian btw. Thank You
The definition of Christian is Someone who believes Christ existed, and tries to follow his example.
This can be applied to anyone who follows any of the organized religions that worship him, and also people who aren't affiliated with any organization and just try to follow his example.
It's very common for one Christian group to believe they are the "true" christians, and after all thats why there are so many different groups, everyone has put their own changes into it along the line.
But just following Christ's example makes you a christian, regardless of what you believe Christs example is.
Comments
It is people doing these things.. but they are church people.. and the "things" they are doing are sponsored by the church....
And you say that religion is bad because chatholics destroyed those ancient writings in mexico... TAKE A WILD GUESS WHO WROTE THEM... Aztec priests... Religion has given so much to the world... and no no one is perfect.. But you are again just seeing things from one pin point angle... this is what you sound like "well christians authorized the killings of millions of people soo religion is bad...
Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
And do you really think Catholics are the worst? Have you studied what some of the other religions have done to each other? or specifically to catholics? You say catholics are the worst.. not because you think so.. but more because you probably dont know much else.. about other religions in other parts of the world and how they affect each other... I cant blame you though..
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Muslims kill people, Jews kill people, Christians kill people, Hindi kill people. Every religion has killed people. It's hard to know who wrote the ancient aztec texts as they don't exist anymore and they are lost forever.
White people kill people, Asians kill people, Black people kill people. All equally. All indiscriminately at times.
Some people do good things and when they are part of a religion that religions claims those things. But is that contributing an advancement? There were governments before religion. There were arts before religion. There are programs for the needy, illiterate, disabled and insane without religion. Yes modern religions do contribute to some good in this world, but are they promoting advancements such as Stem Cell research and cloning? No but i'm sure one of their followers will make a breakthrough and 200 years from now someone will be saying "a christian made the largest breakthrough on cloning so how can you say that the church isn't progressive?"
We haven't even touched on the prejudice that religion brings. The enabling of self righteous thinking in the name of something more powerful.
Keep thinking.
Make a difference!
I think that you are just angry at religion for some reason.... lol so now you say Body mutilation... and then say excluding rituals that divide like suicide or abortion... So I dont know what you are saying... Who are you trying to blame? Different religions have different things to them... some like suicide.. some dont..
Do people who are not religious commit the same atrocities as religious folks? Religion doesn't force anyone to kill anyone... In fact in most religions it says do NOT kill... so when people kill in the sake of religion.. from now on know that, that is not the fault of the religion but the fault of the person....
Do you know what an intentional fallacy is? Basically it says that just because someone says what their meaning behind an action or article or book is something... you cannot judge the book/action by what they say... you have to judge the book/action... by the book/action..
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
And there are also church-sponsored programs that teach people that their religion is right and everyone else's is wrong, gay people are engaged in evil acts and are great sinners, etc. The church breeds an attitude of intolerance toward everything that disagrees with the teachings of the church, and this is absolutely endemic among Christians in the United States at the moment.
And you say that religion is bad because chatholics destroyed those ancient writings in mexico... TAKE A WILD GUESS WHO WROTE THEM... Aztec priests... Religion has given so much to the world... and no no one is perfect.. But you are again just seeing things from one pin point angle... this is what you sound like "well christians authorized the killings of millions of people soo religion is bad...
Every religion has generated atrocities at one time or other, and every religion in its ascendancy has sought to consolidate itself, to snuff out other ways of viewing things, and to monopolise control over social mores and morals, modes of behavior and the like. It's in the nature of religion. And the current example of evangelical Christians in the United States is in complete continuity with this legacy of control.
Well let me translate that for you... White people have killed billions of people in the world... causing some of the worlds largest atrocities...... So i think if the world didn't have any white people.. the world would be on its way to advancement ... I hope you like how that sounds..
The difference is that these atrocities were committed in the name of the religion. The Crusades were done to liberate the holy land from the Muslim infidels ... it was considered to be God's will. The raping and pillaging of the Aztec and Mayan holy sites and historical writings was also considered to be God's will because it facilitated the more complete conversion of the native americans to European Christianity. It's all been done in the name of the Christian God. He has a lot of blood on his hands, thanks to the church.
And do you really think Catholics are the worst? Have you studied what some of the other religions have done to each other? or specifically to catholics? You say catholics are the worst.. not because you think so.. but more because you probably dont know much else.. about other religions in other parts of the world and how they affect each other... I cant blame you though..
I think all religions are equally bad in terms of what they would seek to do with power to do it. Catholicism was in a unique position because of the Spanish reconquest, the counter-reformation and the initial push of colonialism all happening at more or less the same time, which resulted in a huge spread of Catholicism to far-flung parts of the world by Portuguese and Spanish missionaries. So while I agree that all religions seek to control and are ultimately negative in terms of basic human dignity and freedom of action, the Catholic Church has enjoyed a unique position of power due to these historical realities, and this has certainly allowed it to consoliate power and exercise influuence in a unique way.
There will always be prejudice... If its not religion... its skin color.. if its not skin then it's eye color... then hair color... then the color of your gums... Or as a lessor scale just look at schools... there is prejudice between children for the simplest things.. what type of shoes/shirts/clothes you wear... then... where your talents lie... If you are in the chess club... jock... popular... goth... There are prejudices everywhere ... not only religion...
Religion doesn't "bring" prejudice "people" do...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions. "it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive. As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Religion and its sects may vary in what they believe. For instance Muhamed and Jesus are both anti war to the extreme. Yet they have their sects of islam and christianity who believe they should purge the earth of all non believers ie al qaeda and catholicism.
I'm not trying to blame anyone. We all have our beliefs. I'm just saying that if you believe in the institution of religion you're not really believing in the entity that religion is based on. If you were you wouldn't need the religion only the teachings.
I don't believe in god. I don't believe in religion. I believe religion is the crutch of immature souls.
Make a difference!
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
I am a Christian. As the years go by, people seem to be questioning religion more and more just because they don't have their "proof" about it. I don't need proof, because I have faith. Faith in God. Everywhere in the New Testament after the Gospels you continually see (especially in the letters Paul wrote) the authors telling us to have faith in Jesus Christ. God knows that we are, as humans, very curious and want to know how everything works. As such, there are people today who think believing in God is a fairy tale for little kids. I know that science is not going to solve everything. Sure, it is great to be able to make all of these advances in medicine, engineering, etc., but science will not solve why we are here. This is where faith comes in. I believe in God and know that what is said in the Bible is true, and the prophesies will come to pass.
I know that most of the people who have posted here are not Christians or don't believe in a God at all, and I respect your decision. Like someone said earlier, we can't force our religion on others, and Jesus never wanted us to do that. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong in just having faith.
And Jesus never said to follow the words of the Pope... Jesus never even talked about institutionalizing the church...
So you are saying that all those people are evil for following the command of the pope and subsequently the kings/ barrons/earls of their country? How is that different from people fighting in Iraq right now? People aren't there because they WANT to kill.. THey are there because they were ordered to.
The bible does say though that the blood of a war are on the hands of the leader.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Originally posted by methane47
Originally posted by Copeland
Yes any christian that goes against the teachings of christ to follow the word of the pope are evil and by their own religion are sinning. Jesus was anti war and said so on many occasions. "it will be easier for General to pass through the eye of a needle than to enter the kingdom of heavan" i think thats pretty definitive. As for those who follow their government well.. Thats a different thing entirely. Governement is made up of all types of people hence the double standard is impossible to prove unless done on a case by case basis. If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Well back in those days the Pope and the papacy was kinda like a government...And Jesus never said to follow the words of the Pope... Jesus never even talked about institutionalizing the church... So you are saying that all those people are evil for following the command of the pope and subsequently the kings/ barrons/earls of their country? How is that different from people fighting in Iraq right now? People aren't there because they WANT to kill.. THey are there because they were ordered to.The bible does say though that the blood of a war are on the hands of the leader.
Where exactly did i say that? I said any christian that goes to war is sinning. I never said if you follow the pope your evil. I don't even believe in evil.
Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one.
Make a difference!
Thou shall not Murder --> There is a difference. Like when a miltary person shoots an enemy that is killing for war... but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder. Thats why civilian casualties are such a big thing to us.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Originally posted by methane47
Originally posted by Copeland
Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one.
Translation... Thou shall not Murder --> There is a difference. Like when a miltary person shoots an enemy that is killing for war... but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder. Thats why civilian casualties are such a big thing to us.
Thats a piss poor translation that totally leaves out the context of the entire lesson of Exodus.
Who did the jews kill to win their freedom? NOBODY.
What war did they wage? NONE
They were slaves. They according to modern thought had every reason to fight for their freedom. But yet for some reason they didn't? Oh i see that reason would be their teachings that it's wrong to take a life. Thats right they sat there. They did nothing. They had faith and GOD delivered them. Yes thats right GOD delivered them and they never had to fight. SEE THE MORAL OF THE STORY? THATS WHAT FAITH IS ABOUT.
The earliest christians believed in the pacifism of jesus that they didn't even fight to save their own lives when being fed to lions. They cast aside the small weapons the romans gave them so they could be entertained. They just stood there and died.
But now today religion (those in POWER) wants to twist those facts and tell you "oh no um what Moses really meant was don't murder your neighbor but um yeah if its somebody the church deems an infidel or evil... well thats ok!"
Do you see now the way they twist those teaching to fit their need. Thats why the Catholic church's beliefs change over several generations. It used to be alright to turn in your neighbor for having a copy of the bible and watch him be burned at the stake as a heretic because back then only the clergy was allowed to read the bible. Keep the masses stupid and they're easier to lead. Ofcourse the cat was let out of the bag and people started reading the bible leading to the first great schism of the catholic church.
As stated before i'm using catholicism becasue its easier. More people are aware of its history than say that of Karma and Dharma.
edit - what's even more comical is the base that all the middle eastern religions started from. It's principal concept was that it was wrong to even define god. Saying "he" "him" "god" was all sin as to label god was to limit him to that concept whereas they believe that god was infinite so even to reference him was bad. Even to say God is everywhere and everything limits him only to everywhere and everything. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all started there. They were then twisted and perverted by "translation" such as the above quote to where we are today.
Think your religion is real and the word of god? I suggest you find out where your religion really came from.
I can stand toe to toe with the pope arguing theology and god but ultimately it's pointless. Those who have faith can not be argued out of it. It's a mental illness that only time will take care of.
Make a difference!
Couldnt agree more, Jesus was a pacifist in every sense of the word. Today's christians are anything but Pacifist, they are militant and if the neo conservatives are an example a very warlike group.
Why is it they say they follow Jesus Christ and yet dont actually follow his teachings of love and forgiveness. With them its, kill every criminal, take an aggressive war mongering stance on world politics and condemn people in general?
Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, and others tried to set us on the path to enlightenment, but the neo-cons just won't let go of the old ways.
We're on a dangerous route here...
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
it's because of mass media.
all humans do is make decisions based on the information that is presented to them. when all people do is watch fox news and read the bible...
what can you expect but things like sept 11?
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
ALL RELIGIONS - EACH AND EVERY ONE have similar atrocities
A religion, I think, cannot contribute good or evil. I've thought of a religion as a set of beliefs and teachings with an ultimate Being (true or false) at its heart. The individual has to act upon the religion to contribute either good or bad. And seeing that most religions out there support a benevolent doctrine, it depends on the individual's use and interpretation of their knowledge to contribute to society what they will.
I find that it's usually the uneducated person, who seeks selfishly to derive a purpose in their life from their religion, who is at fault. So religion (or most) in my opinion has not contributed anything other than a system of beliefs and teachings. Most religions offer hope and a guideline to improve your physical life; it just depends on how you use your religion that determines how you affect the world.
I have my beliefs (of which I should get around to writing down so that I can remember them all
) which tell me that the good of this life is only temporary and that the good of the other life should be ultimately worked for. I also believe that when one works for the good of the other life, this life will usually benefit from it since the two lives are but one linked chronicle of existence. I believe in right and wrong. I believe in winners and losers in this story. I also believe in the potential for everyone to learn the truth. In my mind, when someone works for the good of this life, it's no more than someone sacrificing their future for the here and now. And in this case, the high doesn't last 80 years and cost an eternity; it lasts a few hours and starts going down hill.
As a side note, I don't buy into the 'no pain, no gain' despair-breeding philosophy of this world. If you live a good life, then you live a better life. Suffering is not a thing to be sought after; it comes on its own. I would respect a society whose ideals bound honor to peace more than equating one's honor to their sorrow-stricken life. That said, I don't buy into a philosophy which proffers little hope. I can understand the atheistic view of the universe - one of infinite regression. We've seen it from the boulder to a grain of sand to an atom. But given what we know I'll give religion the benefit of the doubt and continue my search (an infinite God could certainly create an infinite creation). I'd rather believe in a God of the gaps in the meantime than godlessness which is a gap in itself.
I think that it is possible that life can come about by chance occurrence, but is there evidence in this universe that demonstrates that it has? Certainly the possibility of this happening is very slim and I would likely rule it out entirely if the universe's ability to proliferate life turns out to be finite by barriers of time, mass, or other physical characteristics.
Further aside, there are few people I respect more than devout Jews (save, devout Jewish Christians). Since Christianity has its roots in Judaism, it should not forsake its heritage but embrace it to better understand itself. I would count it a great gain to learn more of God in general from Jewish Christians if anyone should feel the need to enlighten me.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, and others tried to set us on the path to enlightenment, but the neo-cons just won't let go of the old ways.
Hmmmm... You're right. I never thought of that. Good observation.
There are so many ways that I disagree with her.
You ever wonder if Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, and the others are trying to make their place in the history books much the same way that characters like George Whitefield and Jonathan Edwards did with the Great Awakening?
Although, if I were one of them, I wouldn't really want some of the quotes they've made to go down in the history about me. I kind of want to be remembered as having a little more tact and grace.
===============================
If you're a christian fighting a war you are sinning.
Depends on why you are fighting the war and what tactics you use. The greatest of all wars is the war for one's eternal life and there is no wrong in fighting it.
but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder
It seems that I remember instances in Scripture where armies would kill off entire cities - not just the soldiers - as a strategy. If you don't want unnecessary deaths or conflict in the future, might as well wipe clean any ties to one's enemies so that their posterity don't later get the crazy idea in their heads that they need avenge a five-thousand-year-old conflict which ended in disgrace to their distant ancestors and remote bloodline. Just a thought, but I think that the old world, in part, practiced this strategy. If you enslave your enemy, look what happens later... If you let them live but continue to occupy the land that was once theirs, look what happens... I'm not strictly against genocide, but I am quite wary of it. I would generally oppose its practice by any nation of men acting on their own ideals.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Do you have Proof? Or are you just spouting revisionist history?
Religion is just an excuse used by those in power, always has been. Religion itself has caused very little.
Back to what the original Post was about on here, I am Human. Hate titles/labels/stereotypes ... we're all humans so just deal with it and move on.
This can be applied to anyone who follows any of the organized religions that worship him, and also people who aren't affiliated with any organization and just try to follow his example.
It's very common for one Christian group to believe they are the "true" christians, and after all thats why there are so many different groups, everyone has put their own changes into it along the line.
But just following Christ's example makes you a christian, regardless of what you believe Christs example is.