The prophet of the religious sect al qaeda is Bin Laden they call him a prophet. Did you do your research before asserting that it isnt a sect?
Yes you're right i do remember that campaign led by moses against the hittites and samurians. Oh wait no i don't because there wasn't one battle scene in exodus. You must referring to jewish history such as jericho and the following wars which had little to do with faith in god and more to do with kings and generals much like the popes of the middle ages and leaders we have today. Not everything in the old testament has to do with faith or religion. Most in fact is just a jewish history book.
yes i find it sad that christians didn't fight for their lives against the lions. apparently they had faith that better things happened after they died. Isn't that what faith is about?
The sword of which jesus speaks is the sword of a new thought. Destroying the old order and bringing a new way of thinking. A way of peace and faith. Unfortunately people like you read it as a literal translation and believe he's justifying war.
You're a real genius. You fail to make any points. You lost sight of the context of the argument and your points in fact point out that my argument is indeed true. You twist the word out of context of the overall lesson to pervert the outcome to what you feel necessary to justify your beliefs. thank you very much for such a glaring example of how its done /bow
fyi about the history of judaism. Most of what Moses taught actually comes from an old egyptian relgion. proverbs read almost word for word from the book of Odem Epot. He was an old temple priest in egypt. I forget which god off hand but i think it was Horus. This shouldn't be surprising as Moses was raised as an egyptian noble. He did worship at the temples and it was the context of most of his religious training.
I will vote, but first YOU have to answer some questions:
1. What do you mean by "Christian". Do you mean someone who was raised in a Christian family, regardless of what they currently believe, someone who simply believes there was a guy named "Christ," or someone who actually currently believes in and practices Christianity?
2. Why is it even remotely relevant whether I'm Christian or not?
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Originally posted by Copeland Originally posted by methane47 Originally posted by Copeland Thou shall not kill. - I don't recall Moses adding an addendum to that one. Translation... Thou shall not Murder --> There is a difference. Like when a miltary person shoots an enemy that is killing for war... but when a soldier shoots an un-armed child.. that is murder. Thats why civilian casualties are such a big thing to us. Thats a piss poor translation that totally leaves out the context of the entire lesson of Exodus. Who did the jews kill to win their freedom? NOBODY. What war did they wage? NONE They were slaves. They according to modern thought had every reason to fight for their freedom. But yet for some reason they didn't? Oh i see that reason would be their teachings that it's wrong to take a life. Thats right they sat there. They did nothing. They had faith and GOD delivered them. Yes thats right GOD delivered them and they never had to fight. SEE THE MORAL OF THE STORY? THATS WHAT FAITH IS ABOUT. The earliest christians believed in the pacifism of jesus that they didn't even fight to save their own lives when being fed to lions. They cast aside the small weapons the romans gave them so they could be entertained. They just stood there and died. But now today religion (those in POWER) wants to twist those facts and tell you "oh no um what Moses really meant was don't murder your neighbor but um yeah if its somebody the church deems an infidel or evil... well thats ok!" Do you see now the way they twist those teaching to fit their need. Thats why the Catholic church's beliefs change over several generations. It used to be alright to turn in your neighbor for having a copy of the bible and watch him be burned at the stake as a heretic because back then only the clergy was allowed to read the bible. Keep the masses stupid and they're easier to lead. Ofcourse the cat was let out of the bag and people started reading the bible leading to the first great schism of the catholic church. As stated before i'm using catholicism becasue its easier. More people are aware of its history than say that of Karma and Dharma.
edit - what's even more comical is the base that all the middle eastern religions started from. It's principal concept was that it was wrong to even define god. Saying "he" "him" "god" was all sin as to label god was to limit him to that concept whereas they believe that god was infinite so even to reference him was bad. Even to say God is everywhere and everything limits him only to everywhere and everything. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all started there. They were then twisted and perverted by "translation" such as the above quote to where we are today. Think your religion is real and the word of god? I suggest you find out where your religion really came from. I can stand toe to toe with the pope arguing theology and god but ultimately it's pointless. Those who have faith can not be argued out of it. It's a mental illness that only time will take care of.
I don think you know what you're talking about.. Piss poor translation? Well I'm gonna post some of the bible versions that translate "not kill" to "not murder":
New International, New American Standard, The Message, Amplified Bible, New Living Translation, English Standard, Contemporary English, NEW KING JAMES , Young's Literal Translation, Holman Christian Standard, New International Reader's, New Internation version - UK...
So by your account... someone who DOESN"T believe in the bible... You are going to say that some of the most popular translations of the bible are PISS POOR... Well you must be god then...
The early church did not believe in Pacifism... They believed in spreading Peace... And you cannot be a peacefull nation and be starting wars and killing people all the time... Do you think Jesus was a "Pacifist when he drove out the money lenders from the church"
Here is your "Pacifist" commending an officer Matthew 8:5-10: 5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, 6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. 7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. 8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. If Jesus was against War do you think he was say to a GENERAL that he is a good man?
Hebrew meaning of the word translated as "kill" actually means "murder" or "to slay someone in a violent manner unjustly." So, in the Ten Commandments God is saying, "Thou shalt not murder." Unjust premeditated killing with the wrong motives of hatred, vengeance, greed, jealousy, etc. is murder. Killing in self defense to protect oneself is not murder nor is executing condemned killers.
Or how about this... God gave david.. Which was the youngest of the sons and not the most talented... power enough to kill a giant One that had the nation at its heels... Then gave him the whole kingdom... Dont you think God would have punished him for killing someone... NO... Because even though taking a life in battle may be bad... Letting those people come and kill and rape innocent women and children is worse..
Just read Deuteronomy.... Why would God give a nation, instructions on how to carry out war if God believed that war was inherrently wrong?
Jesus says in Matthew 24:6-8: 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
He is acknologing here that there WILL be wars.... further down in the bible it says to follow your government...
God has helped armies numerous times in the bible.. I really dont understand what you are getting at.. You say you can stand toe to toe with the Pope on theology... Well I think you have more blind faith than most people in the world.... You are making comments about the bible that are so shallow its funny...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
The prophet of the religious sect al qaeda is Bin Laden they call him a prophet. Did you do your research before asserting that it isnt a sect?
Yes you're right i do remember that campaign led by moses against the hittites and samurians. Oh wait no i don't because there wasn't one battle scene in exodus. You must referring to jewish history such as jericho and the following wars which had little to do with faith in god and more to do with kings and generals much like the popes of the middle ages and leaders we have today. Not everything in the old testament has to do with faith or religion. Most in fact is just a jewish history book.
So if you know that not everything that religious people do has to do with Faith or religion... Then why are you saying that all religious people are bad and that they shouldn't practice blah blah blah... You seem to attribute anything good.. done by religious people.. to them being people... but at the same time attributing anything bad done by religious people to the religion...
You are mistaken to think that religion forces people to do anything... It is people that do bad... that do evil... it is people that do good... Religion is just the teachings.... And if a teaching goes against what a person does in their life... then you cannot attribute that action to that religion.
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
We must all strive to drink as much as possible and follow his example in the hope that god tells us to do something like build a massive boat that can hold 2 of every creature on earth, don't worry about gathering them, apparently they all migrate to the boat at turbo speed from every corner of the earth or something under god's will before the flood hits.
that would be a glorious sight, apparently the Unicorn didn't follow gods orders though, can't say i'm surprised, according to ancient texts the unicorns were pretty hedonistic. god did the right thing to let them die out, horses don't need a horn on their heads, it makes no sense other than perversity.
Meanwhile Noah lived to be 600 years old or something, his family were the only ones to survive the flood, he may have drank alot but he wasn't as evil as those damned unicorn's, those horses were pure evil. Even the thought of a unicorn fills me with rage, the only creature to ignore god's call to the ark, i once went berserk because someone tried to say a unicorn was a symbol for goodness. people need to do their research.
Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
Originally posted by Copeland Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
But how will we deal with the unicorn crisis without your guidance? Right now thousands of young girls have pictures of unicorns on their walls, they have no idea they are actually worshipping satan.
I swear those frigging unicorn's will be the end of us all.
Originally posted by Copeland Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
My sentiments on the matter are pretty much the same.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Copeland Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
My sentiments on the matter are pretty much the same.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
I've never used this acronym before, but if ever i saw a post where it fits, it's this one...
QFT
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
My sentiments on the matter are pretty much the same.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
Wow that was the best post out of the whole thread... i will remember that one
Originally posted by Nimuel Originally posted by Novaseeker Originally posted by Copeland Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
My sentiments on the matter are pretty much the same.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
I've never used this acronym before, but if ever i saw a post where it fits, it's this one...
QFT
I dont see where reason was used to disproved anything... Someone was trying to misquote the bible to prove that its not usefulll.. He gave up and is now just reverting to what he really believes.. which is that people who believe are sick in the head.
But what you dont know is that you hold many beliefs yourself that aren't proven.... but you have no problem with that... It's ok though it's understandable that when everyone is targetting something its easy to join their side... Religious folk aren't looking for your 'acceptance' believe or not....
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
The point is that you cannot disprove something that cannot be proved. To believe in something that cannot be proven or verified is irrational. Doesnt necessarily mean you're nuts ofcourse, but it IS irrational.
For instance lets say Tom and Joe are discussing the length of a Red Dragons tongue. Neither can be right because neither can be wrong, noone has ever seen a red dragon, not to mention ever measured the lenth of it's tongue. The discussion they have is probably very entertaining, but it's also irrational, it's pointless.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Originally posted by Nimuel The point is that you cannot disprove something that cannot be proved. To believe in something that cannot be proven or verified is irrational. Doesnt necessarily mean you're nuts ofcourse, but it IS irrational.
For instance lets say Tom and Joe are discussing the length of a Red Dragons tongue. Neither can be right because neither can be wrong, noone has ever seen a red dragon, not to mention ever measured the lenth of it's tongue. The discussion they have is probably very entertaining, but it's also irrational, it's pointless.
Depends on the Context of the Conversation .... Maybe Red Dragons tongue is a road in Wisconsin... or somethin who knows..
Anyways... Please then tell the rest of the people here that believing in the Big Bang is irrational.... Lots of things cannot be proven... but they are just accepted as fact... Thats what we call History.
Affected by loss of usual or normal mental clarity; incoherent, as from shock.
Marked by a lack of accord with reason or sound judgment: an irrational dislike.
Not endowed with reason -> Well sometimes people dont need physical evidence of something to give us a reason believe in it... We believe today that it is impossible to surpass the speed of light... and Why? because a scientist here on earth (einstien) said so... We also believed in Black holes .. years before they were found... We also believed in Antimatter.. WAY before it was found.... What I'm trying to say... Is just because something by your definition is Irrational.... doesn't make it untrue...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
proverbs read almost word for word from the book of Odem Epot
I was wondering what 'Odem Epot' is exactly and if you could give me some links to it if there are some? I couldn't find any, but then again the internet service I'm currently using is a little at the moment. Not sure what the heck's going on. Anyway, would 'Odem Epot' be foreign for something and if so is that the correct transliteration for it or would it be called something different. I'll have to try variations of it.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
There's a big difference, you see science works a bit differently, science is all the time actively trying to disprove theories. That doesnt make the statement that we cannot travel faster than light true, it is just that according to our CURRENT knowledge, this is what we can come up with. Scientists are also not happy with that assumptions, but are constantly trying to figure a way to disprove it.
They didnt have physical evidenence of the kind that you can hold in your hand when it came to black holes or antimatter. But because we figured out some things like gravity and such, evidence suggested that there had to be something they didnt know about that was causing certain annomalies, so armed with mathematics and certain knowledge theories began growing, some probable, some less probable, but once they figured out enough to know where to look it was only a matter of time.
So you see the reason these things were figured out was because there was EVIDENCE that suggested that it was so... Evidence that can be recreated and double blind tested...
God damnit, how did i get suckered into this discussion :P
Trying to convince someone who irrationally believes in something on blind faith, without any suggestion of proof whatsoever, to think rationally... I dont know, i think it's a waste of time really... Enjoy you'r god
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
There's a big difference, you see science works a bit differently, science is all the time actively trying to disprove theories.
Without knowing what this is in response to, I would just like to touch on the issue of science = good & rational and religion = evil & irrational. I use 'good' and 'evil' here lightly as a sort of generalizing from an atheist's perspective. Anyway... truth is truth. I think that it's up to us all to question what is truth and what is not and to not teach ambiguities as hard-line truth even if we believe them. Now, let's examine religion. Prove it. Can't? Disprove it. Can't? Well, what does it remain to us today? A belief based on one's personal interpretation of facts.
I could tell you to look at the Evolutionary Timeline and compare it to what took place in Genesis. Which came first? Plants. What came next? Aquatic animals and winged creatures. What came after that? Land animals. And what then after this all? Homo sapiens - more specifically homo sapiens sapiens. You might know them as humans. Does Genesis conflict with the Evolutionary account? Let me also say, from what I've read and heard, that God speaking things into existence is not the same as us speaking. We have to understand the meaning of the word 'speak' in Hebrew or whatever version of it was used to write the account of Genesis at the time. Why, in the New Testament, is Christ even referred to as God's Word? Well, this is obviously not meant to be taken in the literal from our western society's understanding of it. I've also listened to a Rabbi teach on lessons about 'days' and 'weeks' and what they meant in the culture.
One quick example from what I understand of it: Why are our weeks 7 days? Ever wonder about that? Why not ten? Well, if you used the same word for week that is used here, I believe, it's like saying deca- in English. They held sevens in highest honor as we might hold tens in the metric system. Someone from this culture could say, "A week of years," and it would be valid (at least from what I understand of it).
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Originally posted by Nimuel There's a big difference, you see science works a bit differently, science is all the time actively trying to disprove theories. That doesnt make the statement that we cannot travel faster than light true, it is just that according to our CURRENT knowledge, this is what we can come up with. Scientists are also not happy with that assumptions, but are constantly trying to figure a way to disprove it.
They didnt have physical evidenence of the kind that you can hold in your hand when it came to black holes or antimatter. But because we figured out some things like gravity and such, evidence suggested that there had to be something they didnt know about that was causing certain annomalies, so armed with mathematics and certain knowledge theories began growing, some probable, some less probable, but once they figured out enough to know where to look it was only a matter of time.
So you see the reason these things were figured out was because there was EVIDENCE that suggested that it was so... Evidence that can be recreated and double blind tested...
God damnit, how did i get suckered into this discussion :P
Trying to convince someone who irrationally believes in something on blind faith, without any suggestion of proof whatsoever, to think rationally... I dont know, i think it's a waste of time really... Enjoy you'r god
You got into the discussion cuz i Baited you ... I just wanted you to say a couple things... and now that you've said them i will continue..
The reason I brought that up is that even though they are not true..or proved.. You still believe them.... You believe that Nothing can move faster than the speed of light... because science has no experience with things faster than the speed of light... You will believe them until science says different and gives you something else to believe... You believe in the Big Bang because you learned in a school that it was science's best explanation and so you believe it.
I would say that you believe something because of the lack of proof otherwize .. which is pretty acceptable... But if you think about it... Early people in the medievel times believed the earth was flat... because they had nothing to prove otherwize. They believed the earth was the center of the universe... because they had nothing to prove otherwize... And speaking truthfully ... I dont really mind that method... But to say someone is irrational because they believe insomething because of their personal experiences is kinda egocentric... Before you say it... yes i know Religious folk are egocentric too..... it's human nature
But I say given the evidence that I have, within my own lifetime, and my own experiences.. and experiences with things in my own life time.. I think there is something other than the physical world that is affecting us.
Wouldn't you say I'd be rational to make l descisions based on my own experiences? I understand what you are saying blind faith... But some wouldn't call it blind if they would have had certain experiences in their life. I could tell you of experiences or things/people/situations i've been around that just dont make sense to science... but... I'm not gonna waste my time... since I already know that you are just gonna dismiss it and say that "Someday science will explain it"
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
The Big Bang is a scientific theory. It is the leading scientific theory, but it remains simply that: the leading theory. Scientists have debated it for decades, among other theories, and based on the preponderance of the evidence (in particular the recent imagery from the WMAP satellite), that the Big Bang theory is true.
The method was the scientific one, which is rational: hypothesis, test, observe the data, conclusion. The "data" in this case involves the picture that the WMAP satellite rendered of the background radiation in the universe, from which, understanding the speed of light, the early situation in the universe can be readily deduced. It's the scientific method, which is based on reason.
Religious belief has nothing to do with this. The propositions of the religious world are based on revelation. Reason is trotted out to support the truths revealed in various texts, but the conclusions made in the texts, which form the basis for the religious belief system, are not rationally deduced using a rational method. They are proposed out of no rational basis and are to be believed based on faith. Therefore the system is not "rational". Something that is not "rational" is, by definition, "irrational" or "lacking in reason". The religious worldview is based on revelation, not a rational conclusion based on a hypothesis and a rational examination of the evidence. It's the exact opposite of a rational world view.
No, they didnt believe the earth was flat because of LACK of evidence, but because the evidence that they DID have suggested it, some thinking and more evidence (including shadows suggested that it wasnt so... It was blind faith that refused them to accept the fact that it wasnt flat, and in fact killed people who claimed that it was in fact round.
Anectodaly... It's funny that it was considdered common knowledge among lerned men in ancient greece already 300 BC and had been so for a long time acording to Aristoteles, the first one to measure the Earths Diameter was Eratosthenes of Cyrene, he did so by measuring the shadows at the same time of the day at different places.. This was circa 200 BC ... What happened next? Along came a new religion and the earth became 'flat'...
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Originally posted by Nimuel No, they didnt believe the earth was flat because of LACK of evidence, but because the evidence that they DID have suggested it, some thinking and more evidence (including shadows suggested that it wasnt so... It was blind faith that refused them to accept the fact that it wasnt flat, and in fact killed people who claimed that it was in fact round.
Anectodaly... It's funny that it was considdered common knowledge among lerned men in ancient greece already 300 BC and had been so for a long time acording to Aristoteles, the first one to measure the Earths Diameter was Eratosthenes of Cyrene, he did so by measuring the shadows at the same time of the day at different places.. This was circa 200 BC ... What happened next? Along came a new religion and the earth became 'flat'...
It was lack of evidence. They had No Reason to believe the world was round... They didn't believe the world was flat because of testing and scientific method... They believed that the world was flat.. because that makes sense... If it was any other way they would fall off ... They had NO REASON to believe otherwize... It just made sense... to them at the time..
Same is applied... We today have NO REASON to believe something (information) can go faster than light... It just makes no sense to us... Everything points to obeying alberts law... No one is testing this scientific truth... Or what did you call it? test by double blind? People are trying the limits of this.... but There is no reason to believe otherwize... and thats why you dont. But that doesn't mean it's true does it?
What I'm saying is that religious people (many) of them have experienced somethings that probably doesn't fit with science... They have reason to believe. I for one love science... everything about it... I'm always keeping up on science.... But I personally believe because of experiences I believe in... If you mean blind faith in the sense as something tangible... I'm guilty... But if you mean blind faith as in not having a reason to believe.... Well then thats not me...
I like your story.. about Eratosthenes... But what makes you believe this is true? Why do you think it really happened? You believe it because someone wrote it down. Not because you have really evidence of this experiment... Not because you have empiricle evidence of his existence... But because someone wrote about him... Anyways Let me continue... Lets assume that date of 200 BC ... The people before 200 BC didn't believe the earth was flat because they tested out theory upon theory to make sure it was right... They just believed because their View of the world which probable maked ALOT of sense at that time is that the world was flat.. there was nothing to prove otherwize... Dont think that we humans are soo perfect that we have exercized everything and proved everything (or most things) under the sun... If you do well... I have nothing to say to you..
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Originally posted by Novaseeker The Big Bang is a scientific theory. It is the leading scientific theory, but it remains simply that: the leading theory. Scientists have debated it for decades, among other theories, and based on the preponderance of the evidence (in particular the recent imagery from the WMAP satellite), that the Big Bang theory is true.
The method was the scientific one, which is rational: hypothesis, test, observe the data, conclusion. The "data" in this case involves the picture that the WMAP satellite rendered of the background radiation in the universe, from which, understanding the speed of light, the early situation in the universe can be readily deduced. It's the scientific method, which is based on reason.
Religious belief has nothing to do with this. The propositions of the religious world are based on revelation. Reason is trotted out to support the truths revealed in various texts, but the conclusions made in the texts, which form the basis for the religious belief system, are not rationally deduced using a rational method. They are proposed out of no rational basis and are to be believed based on faith. Therefore the system is not "rational". Something that is not "rational" is, by definition, "irrational" or "lacking in reason". The religious worldview is based on revelation, not a rational conclusion based on a hypothesis and a rational examination of the evidence. It's the exact opposite of a rational world view.
The thing about science is that it isn't neccessarily true... Science is just man's BEST EXplanation of phenomenon.... Thats why science is always changing... given light to new evidence... things/theories can be shown feasible/unfeasible.... That being said.... let me give you an example of how science works with a little analogy with law...
-------- The police spot a man on top of a woman in an alley in the 70s... She is raped and dies on the way to the hospital. they find his hair and skin cells under her fingernails. and fluid on her.. They arrest him and charge him for rape and murder. That is a REALLY good explanation and probably right... Does it mean that was the truth? Not neccessarily.... He may not have been the one to commit the crime... He might have been there to help her or something... But in the 70s.. The best explanation Rules... Then Science comes through with DNA.... it's found that What was previously the BEST Explanation... is not so any longer... the fluid on her body is tested... and its not the guy... Now their world view changes.. things that were once true.. are no longer, true... ----------------
I repeat.. Science isn't the truth.... its the Best explanation of natural phenomenon. It just MIGHT BE TRUTH!!! but... we never know.. since it's just best explanation. But I'm a man of science so I lean towards Science's explanation to be true...
When someone has an experience like a miracle... or a prayer answered or something turning around that just doesn't fit with science... Sometimes we can't just accept the catch all explanation that atheists give that "Science will explain it someday"...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
The prophet of the religious sect al qaeda is Bin Laden they call him a prophet. Did you do your research before asserting that it isnt a sect?
I am quite aware of what Al-Qaeda poses to be - But to count it as a sect would be giving it a certain amount of credibility where it isn't due.
Yes you're right i do remember that campaign led by moses against the hittites and samurians. Oh wait no i don't because there wasn't one battle scene in exodus.
Since when are we only counting the book of Exodus?
You must referring to jewish history such as jericho and the following wars which had little to do with faith in god
Little to do? Who's the one that told them to go to war with X Kingdom? Who's the one that told them how to fight the war, how to deal with everything afterwards.
History, yes - But also very faith oriented. They would have never gotten to where they were if not for it. Even Moses got fed up from time to time. Hence the curse put upon him that he would never enter into the promised land.
and more to do with kings and generals much like the popes of the middle ages and leaders we have today. Not everything in the old testament has to do with faith or religion. Most in fact is just a jewish history book.
yes i find it sad that christians didn't fight for their lives against the lions. apparently they had faith that better things happened after they died. Isn't that what faith is about?
It can be. Yes. And they wanted to die that way - They wanted to be martyrs. Not everyone will choose to be martyrs in such ways.
The sword of which jesus speaks is the sword of a new thought. Destroying the old order and bringing a new way of thinking. A way of peace and faith. Unfortunately people like you read it as a literal translation and believe he's justifying war.
Heh - I like how you even said, "a way of *peace* and faith". Look at the scripture I gave in my previous post.
Say he was speaking metaphorically, but he also said to his disciples, Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
You're a real genius. You fail to make any points. You lost sight of the context of the argument and your points in fact point out that my argument is indeed true. You twist the word out of context of the overall lesson to pervert the outcome to what you feel necessary to justify your beliefs. thank you very much for such a glaring example of how its done /bow
lol. Right...I see it's the same old copeland.
Get's all huff and puff, and spouts non-sensical statements that prove nothing, when his deck of a debate starts tumbling down like cards.
fyi about the history of judaism. Most of what Moses taught actually comes from an old egyptian relgion. proverbs read almost word for word from the book of Odem Epot. He was an old temple priest in egypt. I forget which god off hand but i think it was Horus. This shouldn't be surprising as Moses was raised as an egyptian noble. He did worship at the temples and it was the context of most of his religious training.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Comments
Alcanan
"The True North Strong and Free"
"Faith Manages"
aldaron,
The prophet of the religious sect al qaeda is Bin Laden they call him a prophet. Did you do your research before asserting that it isnt a sect?
Yes you're right i do remember that campaign led by moses against the hittites and samurians. Oh wait no i don't because there wasn't one battle scene in exodus. You must referring to jewish history such as jericho and the following wars which had little to do with faith in god and more to do with kings and generals much like the popes of the middle ages and leaders we have today. Not everything in the old testament has to do with faith or religion. Most in fact is just a jewish history book.
yes i find it sad that christians didn't fight for their lives against the lions. apparently they had faith that better things happened after they died. Isn't that what faith is about?
The sword of which jesus speaks is the sword of a new thought. Destroying the old order and bringing a new way of thinking. A way of peace and faith. Unfortunately people like you read it as a literal translation and believe he's justifying war.
You're a real genius. You fail to make any points. You lost sight of the context of the argument and your points in fact point out that my argument is indeed true. You twist the word out of context of the overall lesson to pervert the outcome to what you feel necessary to justify your beliefs. thank you very much for such a glaring example of how its done /bow
fyi about the history of judaism. Most of what Moses taught actually comes from an old egyptian relgion. proverbs read almost word for word from the book of Odem Epot. He was an old temple priest in egypt. I forget which god off hand but i think it was Horus. This shouldn't be surprising as Moses was raised as an egyptian noble. He did worship at the temples and it was the context of most of his religious training.
Make a difference!
I will vote, but first YOU have to answer some questions:
1. What do you mean by "Christian". Do you mean someone who was raised in a Christian family, regardless of what they currently believe, someone who simply believes there was a guy named "Christ," or someone who actually currently believes in and practices Christianity?
2. Why is it even remotely relevant whether I'm Christian or not?
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
I don think you know what you're talking about.. Piss poor translation? Well I'm gonna post some of the bible versions that translate "not kill" to "not murder":
New International, New American Standard, The Message, Amplified Bible, New Living Translation, English Standard, Contemporary English, NEW KING JAMES , Young's Literal Translation, Holman Christian Standard, New International Reader's, New Internation version - UK...
So by your account... someone who DOESN"T believe in the bible... You are going to say that some of the most popular translations of the bible are PISS POOR... Well you must be god then...
The early church did not believe in Pacifism... They believed in spreading Peace... And you cannot be a peacefull nation and be starting wars and killing people all the time... Do you think Jesus was a "Pacifist when he drove out the money lenders from the church"
Here is your "Pacifist" commending an officer
Matthew 8:5-10:
5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.
8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
If Jesus was against War do you think he was say to a GENERAL that he is a good man?
Hebrew meaning of the word translated as "kill" actually means "murder" or "to slay someone in a violent manner unjustly." So, in the Ten Commandments God is saying, "Thou shalt not murder." Unjust premeditated killing with the wrong motives of hatred, vengeance, greed, jealousy, etc. is murder. Killing in self defense to protect oneself is not murder nor is executing condemned killers.
Or how about this... God gave david.. Which was the youngest of the sons and not the most talented... power enough to kill a giant One that had the nation at its heels... Then gave him the whole kingdom... Dont you think God would have punished him for killing someone... NO... Because even though taking a life in battle may be bad... Letting those people come and kill and rape innocent women and children is worse..
Just read Deuteronomy.... Why would God give a nation, instructions on how to carry out war if God believed that war was inherrently wrong?
Jesus says in Matthew 24:6-8:
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
He is acknologing here that there WILL be wars.... further down in the bible it says to follow your government...
God has helped armies numerous times in the bible.. I really dont understand what you are getting at.. You say you can stand toe to toe with the Pope on theology... Well I think you have more blind faith than most people in the world.... You are making comments about the bible that are so shallow its funny...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Sometimes i feel like no matter how much sense i make it doesn't matter, heheh
I Declare Necranism to be the one true faith of Christ, and your all terribly wrong.
That seems to go along with this thread better.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Noah drank alot, and god still loved him.
We must all strive to drink as much as possible and follow his example in the hope that god tells us to do something like build a massive boat that can hold 2 of every creature on earth, don't worry about gathering them, apparently they all migrate to the boat at turbo speed from every corner of the earth or something under god's will before the flood hits.
that would be a glorious sight, apparently the Unicorn didn't follow gods orders though, can't say i'm surprised, according to ancient texts the unicorns were pretty hedonistic.
god did the right thing to let them die out, horses don't need a horn on their heads, it makes no sense other than perversity.
Meanwhile Noah lived to be 600 years old or something, his family were the only ones to survive the flood, he may have drank alot but he wasn't as evil as those damned unicorn's, those horses were pure evil.
Even the thought of a unicorn fills me with rage, the only creature to ignore god's call to the ark, i once went berserk because someone tried to say a unicorn was a symbol for goodness. people need to do their research.
Guys i can sit here and argue quotes out of context all day long. My point is theres no reason. Jesus was not divine. Muhamed was not divine. There is no god. Faith in a divinity or a religion or a mystical force or a cult is a mental illness. Sure theres been good and bad done in the name of everything but it still doesnt make the beliefs real. I believe in the all knowing big purple bunny rabbit but that doesnt make it real. I never said christians or anyone else is "evil" or "bad". I think They're sick in the head. I said that organized religions never contributed an advancement. On the contrary they've sought to stifle advancement to protect their seat of power. Believe what you want. I ain't your god.
Make a difference!
Right now thousands of young girls have pictures of unicorns on their walls, they have no idea they are actually worshipping satan.
I swear those frigging unicorn's will be the end of us all.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
I've never used this acronym before, but if ever i saw a post where it fits, it's this one...
QFT
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
I'd add that belief is a matter of belief, it isn't rational. it's fundamentally irrational, actually, which makes rational debate about belief always a case of people talking past each other. It's impossible to "convince" a believer with reason, because the believer believes that some things are more important than reason (ie, belief), and therefore debate is pointless.
I've never used this acronym before, but if ever i saw a post where it fits, it's this one...
QFT
I dont see where reason was used to disproved anything... Someone was trying to misquote the bible to prove that its not usefulll.. He gave up and is now just reverting to what he really believes.. which is that people who believe are sick in the head.
But what you dont know is that you hold many beliefs yourself that aren't proven.... but you have no problem with that... It's ok though it's understandable that when everyone is targetting something its easy to join their side... Religious folk aren't looking for your 'acceptance' believe or not....
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
The point is that you cannot disprove something that cannot be proved. To believe in something that cannot be proven or verified is irrational. Doesnt necessarily mean you're nuts ofcourse, but it IS irrational.
For instance lets say Tom and Joe are discussing the length of a Red Dragons tongue. Neither can be right because neither can be wrong, noone has ever seen a red dragon, not to mention ever measured the lenth of it's tongue. The discussion they have is probably very entertaining, but it's also irrational, it's pointless.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Depends on the Context of the Conversation
.... Maybe Red Dragons tongue is a road in Wisconsin... or somethin who knows..
Anyways... Please then tell the rest of the people here that believing in the Big Bang is irrational.... Lots of things cannot be proven... but they are just accepted as fact... Thats what we call History.
ir·ra·tion·al
( P ) Pronunciation Key (
-r
sh
-n
l)
adj.
Not endowed with reason -> Well sometimes people dont need physical evidence of something to give us a reason believe in it... We believe today that it is impossible to surpass the speed of light... and Why? because a scientist here on earth (einstien) said so... We also believed in Black holes .. years before they were found... We also believed in Antimatter.. WAY before it was found.... What I'm trying to say... Is just because something by your definition is Irrational.... doesn't make it untrue...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
proverbs read almost word for word from the book of Odem Epot
I was wondering what 'Odem Epot' is exactly and if you could give me some links to it if there are some? I couldn't find any, but then again the internet service I'm currently using is a little
at the moment. Not sure what the heck's going on. Anyway, would 'Odem Epot' be foreign for something and if so is that the correct transliteration for it or would it be called something different. I'll have to try variations of it.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
They didnt have physical evidenence of the kind that you can hold in your hand when it came to black holes or antimatter. But because we figured out some things like gravity and such, evidence suggested that there had to be something they didnt know about that was causing certain annomalies, so armed with mathematics and certain knowledge theories began growing, some probable, some less probable, but once they figured out enough to know where to look it was only a matter of time.
So you see the reason these things were figured out was because there was EVIDENCE that suggested that it was so... Evidence that can be recreated and double blind tested...
God damnit, how did i get suckered into this discussion :P
Trying to convince someone who irrationally believes in something on blind faith, without any suggestion of proof whatsoever, to think rationally... I dont know, i think it's a waste of time really... Enjoy you'r god
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
There's a big difference, you see science works a bit differently, science is all the time actively trying to disprove theories.
Without knowing what this is in response to, I would just like to touch on the issue of science = good & rational and religion = evil & irrational. I use 'good' and 'evil' here lightly as a sort of generalizing from an atheist's perspective. Anyway... truth is truth. I think that it's up to us all to question what is truth and what is not and to not teach ambiguities as hard-line truth even if we believe them. Now, let's examine religion. Prove it. Can't? Disprove it. Can't? Well, what does it remain to us today? A belief based on one's personal interpretation of facts.
I could tell you to look at the Evolutionary Timeline and compare it to what took place in Genesis. Which came first? Plants. What came next? Aquatic animals and winged creatures. What came after that? Land animals. And what then after this all? Homo sapiens - more specifically homo sapiens sapiens. You might know them as humans. Does Genesis conflict with the Evolutionary account? Let me also say, from what I've read and heard, that God speaking things into existence is not the same as us speaking. We have to understand the meaning of the word 'speak' in Hebrew or whatever version of it was used to write the account of Genesis at the time. Why, in the New Testament, is Christ even referred to as God's Word? Well, this is obviously not meant to be taken in the literal from our western society's understanding of it. I've also listened to a Rabbi teach on lessons about 'days' and 'weeks' and what they meant in the culture.
One quick example from what I understand of it: Why are our weeks 7 days? Ever wonder about that? Why not ten? Well, if you used the same word for week that is used here, I believe, it's like saying deca- in English. They held sevens in highest honor as we might hold tens in the metric system. Someone from this culture could say, "A week of years," and it would be valid (at least from what I understand of it).
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
The reason I brought that up is that even though they are not true..or proved.. You still believe them.... You believe that Nothing can move faster than the speed of light... because science has no experience with things faster than the speed of light... You will believe them until science says different and gives you something else to believe... You believe in the Big Bang because you learned in a school that it was science's best explanation and so you believe it.
I would say that you believe something because of the lack of proof otherwize .. which is pretty acceptable... But if you think about it... Early people in the medievel times believed the earth was flat... because they had nothing to prove otherwize. They believed the earth was the center of the universe... because they had nothing to prove otherwize... And speaking truthfully ... I dont really mind that method... But to say someone is irrational because they believe insomething because of their personal experiences is kinda egocentric... Before you say it... yes i know Religious folk are egocentric too..... it's human nature
But I say given the evidence that I have, within my own lifetime, and my own experiences.. and experiences with things in my own life time.. I think there is something other than the physical world that is affecting us.
Wouldn't you say I'd be rational to make l descisions based on my own experiences? I understand what you are saying blind faith... But some wouldn't call it blind if they would have had certain experiences in their life. I could tell you of experiences or things/people/situations i've been around that just dont make sense to science... but... I'm not gonna waste my time... since I already know that you are just gonna dismiss it and say that "Someday science will explain it"
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
The Big Bang is a scientific theory. It is the leading scientific theory, but it remains simply that: the leading theory. Scientists have debated it for decades, among other theories, and based on the preponderance of the evidence (in particular the recent imagery from the WMAP satellite), that the Big Bang theory is true.
The method was the scientific one, which is rational: hypothesis, test, observe the data, conclusion. The "data" in this case involves the picture that the WMAP satellite rendered of the background radiation in the universe, from which, understanding the speed of light, the early situation in the universe can be readily deduced. It's the scientific method, which is based on reason.
Religious belief has nothing to do with this. The propositions of the religious world are based on revelation. Reason is trotted out to support the truths revealed in various texts, but the conclusions made in the texts, which form the basis for the religious belief system, are not rationally deduced using a rational method. They are proposed out of no rational basis and are to be believed based on faith. Therefore the system is not "rational". Something that is not "rational" is, by definition, "irrational" or "lacking in reason". The religious worldview is based on revelation, not a rational conclusion based on a hypothesis and a rational examination of the evidence. It's the exact opposite of a rational world view.
Anectodaly...
It's funny that it was considdered common knowledge among lerned men in ancient greece already 300 BC and had been so for a long time acording to Aristoteles, the first one to measure the Earths Diameter was Eratosthenes of Cyrene, he did so by measuring the shadows at the same time of the day at different places.. This was circa 200 BC ... What happened next? Along came a new religion and the earth became 'flat'...
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz
Same is applied... We today have NO REASON to believe something (information) can go faster than light... It just makes no sense to us... Everything points to obeying alberts law... No one is testing this scientific truth... Or what did you call it? test by double blind? People are trying the limits of this.... but There is no reason to believe otherwize... and thats why you dont. But that doesn't mean it's true does it?
What I'm saying is that religious people (many) of them have experienced somethings that probably doesn't fit with science... They have reason to believe. I for one love science... everything about it... I'm always keeping up on science.... But I personally believe because of experiences I believe in... If you mean blind faith in the sense as something tangible... I'm guilty... But if you mean blind faith as in not having a reason to believe.... Well then thats not me...
I like your story.. about Eratosthenes... But what makes you believe this is true? Why do you think it really happened? You believe it because someone wrote it down. Not because you have really evidence of this experiment... Not because you have empiricle evidence of his existence... But because someone wrote about him... Anyways Let me continue... Lets assume that date of 200 BC ... The people before 200 BC didn't believe the earth was flat because they tested out theory upon theory to make sure it was right... They just believed because their View of the world which probable maked ALOT of sense at that time is that the world was flat.. there was nothing to prove otherwize... Dont think that we humans are soo perfect that we have exercized everything and proved everything (or most things) under the sun... If you do well... I have nothing to say to you..
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
--------
The police spot a man on top of a woman in an alley in the 70s... She is raped and dies on the way to the hospital. they find his hair and skin cells under her fingernails. and fluid on her.. They arrest him and charge him for rape and murder.
That is a REALLY good explanation and probably right... Does it mean that was the truth? Not neccessarily.... He may not have been the one to commit the crime... He might have been there to help her or something... But in the 70s.. The best explanation Rules... Then Science comes through with DNA.... it's found that What was previously the BEST Explanation... is not so any longer... the fluid on her body is tested... and its not the guy... Now their world view changes.. things that were once true.. are no longer, true...
----------------
I repeat.. Science isn't the truth.... its the Best explanation of natural phenomenon. It just MIGHT BE TRUTH!!! but... we never know.. since it's just best explanation. But I'm a man of science so I lean towards Science's explanation to be true...
When someone has an experience like a miracle... or a prayer answered or something turning around that just doesn't fit with science... Sometimes we can't just accept the catch all explanation that atheists give that "Science will explain it someday"...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."