Originally posted by rikilii Originally posted by haxxjoo Current status: EMU is in development and making good progress. If you call a hacked client "good progress," more power to you. I dont really need to address this except to say I call it good progress yes. What term would you use to describe the advancement of the emu's development beyond the point of nothing? That is all that matters. Any other debate is just your useless opinions on copyright laws and IP laws which last I checked wasn't worth the bytes used to store the post with. You never know, some of us might actually BE IP lawyers. Some of us might even work in the LEC legal department. All I know, is that a lot of people are getting their hopes up for a lot of nothing. The best we can expect out of this is that it will serve as a wakeup call to LEC and SOE. I might be the tooth fairy too. LEC legal department would be so stupid as to post legal counsel unsolicitated on the internet also falling to add a disclaimer about the advice being rendered. I know a few real lawyers. They dont hand out legal advice free of charge. Of course, the posters here are all lawyers who do pro bono IP law. How silly of me. The best we can expect is an open sourced emu. That is the best. The least we can expect is it awakens SOE and LA. However, you want to put it this entire thread is trash and your posts just contribute to more garbage on the internet. As does this response. Hrm. I guess I suck too.
Smedlley most certainly does not have the right to give them permission. Just because SOE has a license from LEC to do certain things with Star Wars material, doesn't mean they have the right to sublicense it to anyone they want. In fact, I'd be shocked if the agreement didn't contain a very strict limitation on the right of SOE to delegate its rights. That is between LEC and SOE. Not between LEC and the Emu. As I said, they can sue SOE for mishandling and would quite probably win. But they cant sue the Emu team. Because the guys with the license to that particular IP is SOE. Does not matter if SOE has the right to do it or not. SOE did it. So THEY are the ones LEC can go after. Not the Emu team.
As far as the RIAA is concerned, you are sadly mistaken. It doesn't matter that they are not a governmental entity. They have rights just like anyone else, and can use the courts to enforce those rights if you infringe them. If you really got off as easily as you said, it's most likely that they did not want to sue you in a jurisdication near where you live, or simply because they'd prefer not to bother with people who are smart enought to get lawyers. There's plenty of other fish in the sea that are easier targets, and the whole thing was about scaring people into obeying the law. That doesn't mean they couldn't have gone after you to the full extent of the law if they really wanted to. The RIAA use extortion and bullying to get things done. For example, they send someone a letter saying they are going to sue this person if he/she doesnt pay them $2,833 in 30 days. If they had any real legal power in these instances then why not go after people even if they got lawyers? Because they know if the guy got a lawyer then they most likely wouldnt win. Yes they have normal legal rights. But they are NOT a law enforcement branch. They are a law firm. A company. Nothing more. And according to my attorney, the RIAA breaks just about as many laws as it says its trying to uphold. He has had dealings with them before and its always been the same outcome. He sends them a letter that his client obviously didnt know that was on his computer and they can go ahead and sue. Just send him the info for court dates so he can be sure to be there. And nothing else is ever heard from them.
I have some insight into this from the FBI as to the reasons why. Because anything found on a computer is circumstantial evidence unless there is something hard to back it up (ie witnesses, etc). It can be used to strengthen a case but cant be used alone to prove a case. Had a FBI Agent from the cybercrimes division give a seminar here on computer security. He told about a case where they brought a guy in that had a hard drive full of child porn. They sweated him for the usual 72 hours but ultimately had to let him go because that is all they had on him. All the nutcase had to say was "I didnt know it was on there.". Luckily they nailed him about a year later when a video tape was found with him as the star. Of course this doesnt mean we should all start commiting crimes on our computers. The FBI has ways of getting hard evidence also.
I'd love to see the court opinion that said LEC can't enforce it's rights against people in other games. Even if there really is one, however, this situation is different from what you described. We're not talking about people adding features to a game they already paid for. Every player who uses the EMU is potentially a player not paying for an SWG subscription. Its called fanart. Fanart comes in all shapes and sizes. From some 10 year old drawing a picture of an X-Wing for art class to a 17 year old making a game model of Boba Fett for Half-Life. The Emu would fall under the same situation. A guy was making maps for a game. They depicted scenes from Episode 3-6. Scenes like Tatooine, Death Star, and Bespin. Lucasarts sent him a cease and desist letter. The judge told Lucasarts its fanart and unless the guy is charging people for his art then they dont have a leg to stand on.
Originally posted by rikilii Originally posted by haxxjoo Originally posted by rikilii Smedlley most certainly does not have the right to give them permission. Just because SOE has a license from LEC to do certain things with Star Wars material, doesn't mean they have the right to sublicense it to anyone they want. In fact, I'd be shocked if the agreement didn't contain a very strict limitation on the right of SOE to delegate its rights. You must have some special powers to know what a contract says and who has rights to what. QUick I wrote down a number on a piece of paper in michigan can you guess it for me? As far as the RIAA is concerned, you are sadly mistaken. It doesn't matter that they are not a governmental entity. They have rights just like anyone else, and can use the courts to enforce those rights if you infringe them. If you really got off as easily as you said, it's most likely that they did not want to sue you in a jurisdication near where you live, or simply because they'd prefer not to bother with people who are smart enought to get lawyers. There's plenty of other fish in the sea that are easier targets, and the whole thing was about scaring people into obeying the law. That doesn't mean they couldn't have gone after you to the full extent of the law if they really wanted to. You work for RIAA's legal department too? Physic, mind reading abilities pwn. Man I am amazed and the depth of your legal argument on how RIAA operates. I'd love to see the court opinion that said LEC can't enforce it's rights against people in other games. Even if there really is one, however, this situation is different from what you described. We're not talking about people adding features to a game they already paid for. Every player who uses the EMU is potentially a player not paying for an SWG subscription. How about a tennis court? Your argument here is just so logical and thought out I cannot help but totally agree that if I found a court, even if there really was one the situation is different so your argument wins. Wow am I enthusiastic today about the internet and people posting in its spaces.
To summarize the previous poster. He wins. He is right. Your wrong. Dont bother making any points or examples cause it wouldn't apply to "his" situation. Plus he is physic and can read things with his mind just be knowing a contact exists.
Say what you want, but if the guy's wrong, he's wrong. He made a lot of unsubstantiated claims, none of which really make any sense if you have even the remotest understanding of IP law.
If you think he's so correct, please help me find any evidence that he knows what he's talking about.
Where did you study intellectual property law? I dont make claims that I understand something I am not involved in, experienced in or studied.
I don't think anything about his argument besides its all rehetorical trash on both sides. Until a lawsuit is even filled you cannot make legal arguments speculating what the legal argument is for either side because you have no idea what basis one side is going to make and speculating about what someones options are is retarded. We all know SOE/LA can sue the EMU. We all know the emu will defend itself from a lawsuit. WTF is the debate about?
Who would theoritically win a made up lawsuit?
Jesus and santa clause. They will show up and tag team soe/la in a royal rumble that has the emu elimatated for cheating with a chair from under the ring mate.
Evidence of what? Neither of you have any clue. However, I suspect the parts are a seize and desist letter followed by a court order is likely against the emu pending the results of any theoritically lawsuit is standard par for the course. Of course there is legal prescendence that allowed Blackberry to continue its service will disputing its claims against IP law, which the lost and where forced to settle. So guess what idiots, either could occur.
Anything can happen in the court as both present legal arguments for there side. Speculating about it before it occurs and not basing your arguments on case law is like watching fox news debate legal stories. Hell say anything you want in this debate. I think Yodi might show up at trial and make a compelling argument on how the darkside flourishes when you download songs illegally off the internet.
Originally posted by haxxjoo Originally posted by rikilii
Where did you study intellectual property law? I dont make claims that I understand something I am not involved in, experienced in or studied.
I don't think anything about his argument besides its all rehetorical trash on both sides. Until a lawsuit is even filled you cannot make legal arguments speculating what the legal argument is for either side because you have no idea what basis one side is going to make and speculating about what someones options are is retarded. We all know SOE/LA can sue the EMU. We all know the emu will defend itself from a lawsuit. WTF is the debate about?
Who would theoritically win a made up lawsuit?
Let's get a bit real here for a second. Anyone claiming that lawsuit is a done deal and dealing with emulators providing access to LEC property has nothing to fear is naive. Ignorantly so, since simply laughing into the face of large corporations is dangerous.
When dealing with lawsuits, courts are obviously involved. They are slow, involve lots of paperwork, time and money. Anyone sued needs legal representation, is under investigation, may get hardware confiscated, running it on employers time may get them fired, it will leave a record in their past of copyright infringement lawsuits.
Are you willing to go through this, go against dedicated legal teams of large corporations, who have no problem throwing 1 million dollars into a lawsuit they know they'll win, just as a public display of power? What if you do lose? RIAA lawsuits have cost students to go bankrupt, having to get financial plans just to pay of debts for next 15 years.
In the end, it comes down crashing on one person. Not the 500 emu players, but one of the people who ran, wrote code, or contributed to the project. And it's only then, that that person realizes, how alone and helpless they become. Many smirk, but mocking copyright laws or trivializing them is dangerous. Looking at some of the sites that intend to run these emulators, the lack of grammar alone is something to consider. Nobody, with such poor writing skills (no, saying it's just internet doesn't work here) can possibly have enough experience or knowledge on the topics involved.
Then, there are scape goats and martyrs. Let's say emu is open source, and it's spread out. LEC launches full scale legal assault on authors, and wins (if they want, they can win, if only since the lawyer is George's old school buddy). The authors end up taking all the heat. The emu is there, but that one person is screwed. Are you willing to be that person, martyr for the cause? Over a video game?
Individuals get forgotten quickly. Nobody hears of the losers. This isn't some martyr cause, it's writing a server emulator for a dated game, that was long forgotten by game industry. A community of thousands, where the industry takes 1 million as entry point. This isn't about proving moral or ethical aspects. It comes down to the individuals, which end up taking the heat.
But never mock big companies. Too many people ended up getting sacrified, their futures ruined, just because they were made examples of corporate firepower. In one year, nobody remembered why, but they have to live with it.
LucasArts is going into gaming again. What better way to scare away competition, than by lynching a wannabe coder, who doesn't realize the perils of copyright infringement, and legalities involved. It server no purpose, except as a warning. And they can do it just on a whim, as an excercise, to see how far the laws can be pushed. After all, legal team needs practice in enforcement of such laws in future online games.
Originally posted by haxxjoo Where did you study intellectual property law? I dont make claims that I understand something I am not involved in, experienced in or studied. George Washington University Law School, if you have to ask. Forgive me if I don't reveal my true identity on the internet, but you shouldn't be surprised that there are lawyers interested in MMORPGs. My fellow lawyers and I are some of the biggest nerds on the planet. I don't think anything about his argument besides its all rehetorical trash on both sides. Until a lawsuit is even filled you cannot make legal arguments speculating what the legal argument is for either side because you have no idea what basis one side is going to make and speculating about what someones options are is retarded. We all know SOE/LA can sue the EMU. We all know the emu will defend itself from a lawsuit. WTF is the debate about? Don't count on the emu group defending itself. Where would they get the money? And who cares what the debate is about? It's a debate. That's what these nifty little discussion forums are for -- discussion. If you're not interested in reading or participating in debate about a particular topic, why waste your time reading these forums? Who would theoritically win a made up lawsuit? Jesus and santa clause. They will show up and tag team soe/la in a royal rumble that has the emu elimatated for cheating with a chair from under the ring mate. Evidence of what? Neither of you have any clue. However, I suspect the parts are a seize and desist letter followed by a court order is likely against the emu pending the results of any theoritically lawsuit is standard par for the course. Of course there is legal prescendence that allowed Blackberry to continue its service will disputing its claims against IP law, which the lost and where forced to settle. So guess what idiots, either could occur. You can't compare the RIM case to this one. The majority of patent infringement cases proceed to judgment before any injunction is applied. The rare exceptions are cases where it is extremely likely that the plaintiff will win and the relative harm to the plaintiff outweighs any harm that would be suffered by the defendant if enjoined. In those rare cases, the court can issue a "preliminary injunction" or a "temporary restraining order." This is not likely to be one of those cases. LEC would most likely get a restraining order very early in the case because they are almost certain to win on the merits, and the emu people could hardly argue they are being harmed by an injunction when they are giving it away for free. All this presumes, of course, that they are litigating in a country that is a member of the WTO and therefore has commonly applied copyright laws and enforcement proceedings. If the emu people are operating out of NE Zimbabwe, life's gonna be a lot tougher for LEC. ... I think Yodi might show up at trial and make a compelling argument on how the darkside flourishes when you download songs illegally off the internet. That would be pretty cool.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Let's get a bit real here for a second. Anyone claiming that lawsuit is a done deal and dealing with emulators providing access to LEC property has nothing to fear is naive. Ignorantly so, since simply laughing into the face of large corporations is dangerous.
When dealing with lawsuits, courts are obviously involved. They are slow, involve lots of paperwork, time and money. Anyone sued needs legal representation, is under investigation, may get hardware confiscated, running it on employers time may get them fired, it will leave a record in their past of copyright infringement lawsuits.
Are you willing to go through this, go against dedicated legal teams of large corporations, who have no problem throwing 1 million dollars into a lawsuit they know they'll win, just as a public display of power? What if you do lose? RIAA lawsuits have cost students to go bankrupt, having to get financial plans just to pay of debts for next 15 years.
In the end, it comes down crashing on one person. Not the 500 emu players, but one of the people who ran, wrote code, or contributed to the project. And it's only then, that that person realizes, how alone and helpless they become. Many smirk, but mocking copyright laws or trivializing them is dangerous. Looking at some of the sites that intend to run these emulators, the lack of grammar alone is something to consider. Nobody, with such poor writing skills (no, saying it's just internet doesn't work here) can possibly have enough experience or knowledge on the topics involved.
Then, there are scape goats and martyrs. Let's say emu is open source, and it's spread out. LEC launches full scale legal assault on authors, and wins (if they want, they can win, if only since the lawyer is George's old school buddy). The authors end up taking all the heat. The emu is there, but that one person is screwed. Are you willing to be that person, martyr for the cause? Over a video game?
Individuals get forgotten quickly. Nobody hears of the losers. This isn't some martyr cause, it's writing a server emulator for a dated game, that was long forgotten by game industry. A community of thousands, where the industry takes 1 million as entry point. This isn't about proving moral or ethical aspects. It comes down to the individuals, which end up taking the heat.
But never mock big companies. Too many people ended up getting sacrified, their futures ruined, just because they were made examples of corporate firepower. In one year, nobody remembered why, but they have to live with it.
LucasArts is going into gaming again. What better way to scare away competition, than by lynching a wannabe coder, who doesn't realize the perils of copyright infringement, and legalities involved. It server no purpose, except as a warning. And they can do it just on a whim, as an excercise, to see how far the laws can be pushed. After all, legal team needs practice in enforcement of such laws in future online games.
Well said. But in the end, no one knows what LEC and SOE will do. If they are smart, they will hire the guy as Smed said he'd do, and if the Emu is any good, they'll buy it from him and use it to run classic servers.
But they have a right to protect their property, just as you have a right to keep people from taking your TV. So don't be surprised if the do it.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Just out of curiosity, I have seen devs post on the official boards that Pre Nge "is not the game any more". Since they have said that could not the argument be made that there is no competition since the pre nge code is not used or availiable to the public?
Originally posted by Iocco7015 Another one of these threads
lol best post in the thread. What is this, like the 485th discussion on the legality of the emu by people with no background in copywrite law? zzzzzzzz
Bottom line, i dont know if its illegal, but we arent going to get sued by just playing it, so who cares.
BUT.. the point is, the EMU guys are only developing the code. They aren't hosting ANYTHING.
SO therefore, they haven't and never will break any law. The code is original based on a different template... so they aren't even stealing any code. SIMILAR code yes... different enough to be its own entity.
Now the people who actually HOST a server will be opening themselves up for whatever legal voodoo LA nd $OE decides to throw at them.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Vyava Originally posted by 5150 The only thing I'd say about any potential IP violation (and IANAL) is that the IP is in the client, not the server. I would assume as long as the EMU project does not make a client available for download (nor should they need to because we already have it) no IP violation is in effect.
Wrong. All coding is IP. Client and server. You are not talking basic common (and common use) mathe principles like making a solitaire game here, rather you are talking about making coding that is bypassing security confirmations and such for a copyrighted client. IE the EMU server is fraudulently telling the client it is an official server. The legal violations go much further, but as soon as the client is able to log in the EMU server is violating copyright while comitting fraud.
You've probably already been taken to task over your reply but I dont have time to catch up on 7-odd pages so I'll just wade back in here.
The EMU server code is (as far as we know) 100% home grown so theres no problem there - everything else you describe is a EULA breach (i.e. unauthorised modification of the client) which may or may not be illegal (since its yet to be challenged in court)
What they need to do is set up classic servers and they need to do it NOW.
You know...that's exactly what I posted on the SWG Forums...in the General Star Wars Topics board as the moderator instructed us to do. What did I get? Yup, a 2 week ban for saying something like:
I would rather play pre-CU SWG on SOE servers than an SWG-EMU server run by a teenager. SOE better get with the program. Setup pre-CU Servers now.
So, seeing as Sony has essentially told me to shut up, even after I followed their guidelines and was only giving them a warning....not inciting others, I QUIT.
I placed 500k of maintenance into my house, and put Component Analysis Devices on the floor commemorating the toons my wife and I played on Ahazi and Shadowfire. Also dropped one for my friend Babacca who was a better and more loyal friend to me than Chewbacca was to Han. And finally, one was dropped for: "All the other souls crushed by the tyranny of SOE"
I poured a lot of energy into that game, and helped SOE immeasurably by providing help to newbies, and even content to bored players who would have otherwise quit. I was owed more than a slap in the face by SOE, and it will NOT be forgiven. I am now officially at war with Sony and LucasArts. Any pain I can cause them, I will.
Word of mouth, baby...word of mouth. It may be small, but I don't care. It will make me feel good.
That's the biggest shock to me. With all the EMU buzz out there, and all the excitement over it, you'd think they'd pull their heads out of their backsides long enough to say "Hey.. let's roll out 2 servers with Publish 12 code and CHARGE them to play!!!"
I mean really.
I go through the day saying humans just CAN'T be that stupid of an animal. Then things like this just make me suprised we walk upright at all.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Sorry for digging this up, but I missed it this morning:
Originally posted by rikilii
Originally posted by MX13
Originally posted by kaibigan34 2. It could be fake. I am not saying it is so please dont start flaming me. I think its genuine too. But dont forget there were once videos and screenies taken by people who figured out how to load into SWG without going to a server. I'd go over why it's not fake, but it would bore people to death. And after the video, it's clear that it's not. Oh, come on, throw us a bone. And while you're at it, explain why you think it is anything other than a hacked client running on a single machine, as opposed to a client interacting with a working server. Simply put, it's the UI, the executable commands, stat numbers on-screen, the call commands & that they visited multiple planets (which you need a server for). there a few other things that a friend pointed out. He's much more technically capable, so I'll try to get him to respond with the boring stuff.
4. SOE is in fact scared. There is no way to deny it. What do people do when they are scared? They are unpredictable. Corporations are the same. Eventhough they dont have a leg to stand on in court, since they pretty much gave the EMU team permission, they can still hold it up in courts for years before ever even speaking to a judge. Getting a cease and desist order until the outcome of the case isnt that hard to do. There's no legal way they can hold it up. They can make the SWGEMU's peoples lives hell, but they can't stop the EMU.
LEC can sue them, get a restraining order, have their possessions seized, and possibly even have them arrested and imprisoned or fined heavily. Theoretically, they can do the same to any person who download and plays the Emu, in much the same way that record companies can go after people who download pirated MP3s. Copyright infringement is a crime in most civilized countries, so unless they are operating out of a cave in Afghanistan, the developers of the Emu can get in serious trouble for what they have done. Of course, prosecuting these people beyond shutting them down would be a public relations nightmare for LEC. They'd be better off funding them, providing server hardware and bandwidth, and collecting subscription fees for the emu when it is ready. You state this like you are the law, or LEC owns the legal system. It is FAR from certian they can even get a restraining order, and they DEFINATLY can NOT sieze their property (LEC is bad, but they are not the Secret Police). You're just WAY off here, and anyone who knows the legal system, especially the Civil/Business Section, would tell you you have no clue as to how it works. It's NOT fast, it's usually leverage & it's tied together like you would suggest. Tell you what, if they are breaking the law, you can turn them in right now. You don't even need to be LEC or SOE. Go for it, good luck.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
There's no legal way they can hold it up. They can make the SWGEMU's peoples lives hell, but they can't stop the EMU.
Then once again how come several EMU's haven't held up in court? you also forget that this is one of STAR WARS.
No, SOE and Lucasarts will not be able to win in a court case of any kind. Because Smedley, the president of the company currently holding the LICENSE to this particular game told them to try. Even went so far as to say he would hire them if they pulled it off.
Ever hear of sarcasm? In other words Smedley doesn't take them seriously, and Smed is a known smartass. Such a statement as that he made is not legally binding in the least. Besides, he can't speak for both LEC and SOE.
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Vyava MX13 I will repost since you don't seem to understand how an EMU functions: No, it is illegal AND against the EULA. I will explain. An EMU or emulation pretends it is something it is not. The SWGEMU pretends it is a valid authorized and legal server and misleads the client. Following so far? good. It is doing this through the use of cracked packet data. So it is misleading the client software which is fraud. It is illegally representing itself as somethign it isn't. This precident has been shown with Lineage 2, UO, and EQ EMU lawsuites. Well what is the user knows this? Doesn't matter because to emulate this information and tell the client that it is a viable server illegal acts have to happen. Every time a graphic makes a copyrighted image appear you are violating copy right. How so? The specific data within the secure packet to call up that image is specific to the client and server setup...both of which are copyrighted and to obtain this data involves breaking copyright. Well what if they modify the client software you ask? Well now the client is illegal because you illegally modified the client. There is no legal route to use either original client or server software. UO and L2 EMU servers show this precident. Also as someone else pointed out using an EMU server breaks the DMCA by bypassing the security within the client software. If the SWGEMU team had put their efforts into recreating how SWG played/functioned without reverse engineering and created their own client software they would be legally safe, they didn't so they are not legally safe. Now I am off to work to play with IP like I do 5-7 days a week.
Vyava I will repost since you don't seem to understand how an EMU functions:
No, it is NOT illegal, but IS against the EULA. I will explain. An EMU, or emulation, IS a SWG server, but not one run or coded by SOE. Since it is reassembled by packets & IS custom code, it is NOT a copy of SWG Server Code, and therefor NOT Illegal Pirating. Following so far? good. It is NOT doing this through the use of cracked packet data, since there is NOTHING to crack when looking at a packet. It is NOT misleading the client software since ALL the software is doing is connecting to a Server, you see, it has no choice and therefor CAN NOT be mislead, it is Modded. It is NOT illegally representing itself as somethign it isn't, since that in itself is NOT Illegal, but only against the EULA. This precident has NOT been shown with Lineage 2, UO, and EQ EMU lawsuits since NONE of these EMU's has been shut down, although EMU's that CHARGE have been. There are examples of ALL of those still running, especially UO.
EMULATION IS NOT ILLEGAL. Following so far? good. Show us one THING, ONE that says it is. Pirating IS Illegal, but the EMU is NOT a Pirated Server or Software. Reverse Engineering is NOT Illegal, but stealing code segments is.
You claim there is no legal route to use either original client or server software (which the EMU is NOT), but EVERY interpretation by experts (feel free to Google one) says differently. Following so far? good. ONLY when an EMU copies a game for the purpose of a) making profit, b) avoiding the legal purchase of the game or c) circumventing the Subscription source have rulings been against an EMU (Google Diablo II EMU). Are there arguments to made by both sides with the SWGEMU? Yes, but they haven't yet and you are HARDLY an athority, only a judge is. Saying something is Illegal DOESN'T make it so, and until a Judge rules on a SWGEMU case, the EMU is NOT Illegal.
Also, you claim, as someone else pointed out using an EMU server breaks the DMCA by bypassing the security within the client software, which means nothing since you have NO proof of it. Following so far? good.
Modifying the client without altering the protected materials IS NOT ILLEGAL. Following so far? good. Since the Server is NOT the same as SOE software, the Server Software is NOT Illegal. Now, what people do with the Servers COULD be Illegal, but that does not mean it will.
Last, adding condescending comments only serves to make you more abnoxious. Following so far? good.
Now I am back to work, where my company runs Transaction Servers and is currently dealing with competitors who have tried to reverse engineer & rewrite our software, you know, an EMU of our software...
Keep dreaming.
Every piece of artwork that the emu rips off is copyrighted.
The Acklay model and animations are copyrighted.
The wall textures are copyrighted.
The user interface is copyrighted.
The player animations are copyrighted.
The Bazaar terminal is copyrighted.
The skill trees are copyrighted.
The layout of Coronet is copyrighted.
The map of Naboo is copyrighted.
If you can see it in the game, it's copyrighted, and any emu developer who uses any one of those items in an emu version of SWG and distributes it without SOE and/or LEC's permission, is infringing that copyright. The penalties for infringement are not only the legal fees one might have to pay to defend oneself, but also criminal fines and potentially imprisonment.
It does not matter if you are making money on it, but it certainly is worse if you are:
17 U.S.C. § 506. Criminal offenses
[for those of you who haven't taken a civics class, that is a United States Statute, i.e. a LAW....Boring I know, but the good parts are in YELLOW, below, for those of you with A.D.D.]
(a) Criminal Infringement.— Any person who infringes a copyright willfully either—
(1)for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or
(2)by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period,of 1 or more copiesor phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000,
shall be punished as provided under section 2319of title 18, United States Code.
18 USC § 2319
(a) Whoever violates section 506(a) (relating to criminal offenses) of title 17 shall be punished as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section and such penalties shall be in addition to any other provisions of title 17 or any other law.
(b) Any person who commits an offense under section 506(a)(1) of title 17—
(1) shall be imprisoned not more than 5 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of at least 10 copies or phonorecords, of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $2,500;
(2) shall be imprisoned not more than 10 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
(3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, in any other case.
(c) Any person who commits an offense under section 506(a)(2) of title 17, United States Code—
(1) shall be imprisoned not more than 3 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 10 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of $2,500 or more;
(2) shall be imprisoned not more than 6 years, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense is a second or subsequent offense under paragraph (1); and
(3) shall be imprisoned not more than 1 year, or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, if the offense consists of the reproduction or distribution of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000.
So have fun with the emu. I hope you don't get any letters in the mail or visits from FBI agents about it.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If you can see it in the game, it's copyrighted, and any emu developer who uses any one of those items in an emu version of SWG anddistributes it without SOE and/or LEC's permission, is infringing that copyright. The penalties for infringement are not only the legal fees one might have to pay to defend oneself, but also criminal fines and potentially imprisonment.
For the last time:
THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTING IT...
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
(a) Whoever violates section 506(a) (relating to criminal offenses) of title 17 shall be punished as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section and such penalties shall be in addition to any other provisions of title 17 or any other law.
So have fun with the emu. I hope you don't get any letters in the mail or visits from FBI agents about it.
Good show.
Emu has no retail value. Client does. The above would apply if they were to distribute the client, or x copies that constitute cumulative value of $1000. Emulator does not constitute copyright infringement, as long as it's ran for non-profit means.
This is where the legal gray area apears, in which certain emulators can exist.
They aren't providing anything of retail value, they are offering a non-profit service. None of the copyrighted contents are distributed or reproduced in the process. They are used by owners (legally purchased copies), but not distributed. The only content that is distributed, is the protocol contents, but those have no retail value.
However, in Vivendi vs. bnetd case, the judgement was only passed on allowing illegally purchased copies to be used, but not in the above mentioned cases of copyright infringement, since they are unaplicable to this particular case.
The legality of clients is a problem here as well, under the precedent, that using running an emu allows use of unauthorized clients (as defined by CD-key), thereby causing damages. The rest does not apply. And that is an unfortunate precedent, since it's universal to any online game, that uses CD-key to create accounts.
But everything else you state is unaplicable, and was shown to be so before.
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by rikilii
Keep dreaming. Aren't you abnoxious
If you can see it in the game, it's copyrighted, and any emu developer who uses any one of those items in an emu version of SWG anddistributes it without SOE and/or LEC's permission, is infringing that copyright. The penalties for infringement are not only the legal fees one might have to pay to defend oneself, but also criminal fines and potentially imprisonment.
For the last time:
THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTING IT...
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
There is no spoon. The artwork is on a player machine, but is the intellectual property of the parent company, not you. Therefore they violate US copyright laws. the EU laws I hear are a lil more lax, but I don't know. The American intellectual property laws are fairly clear on this.
Then again, a lot of the people defending the EMU's legality also thought it was a serious idea to bring a lawsuit against SOE for the NGE.
There is no spoon. The artwork is on a player machine, but is the intellectual property of the parent company, not you. Therefore they violate US copyright laws. the EU laws I hear are a lil more lax, but I don't know. The American intellectual property laws are fairly clear on this.
Then again, a lot of the people defending the EMU's legality also thought it was a serious idea to bring a lawsuit against SOE for the NGE.
That does not violate US Copyright laws, sorry. Rekrul put it far better than I ever could: Causing the MMO company monitary loss is the real issue, and that comes down to running the EMU Server. Let's also remember that IP law does not apply here since the EMU is all original code, and serves no function other than an exchange & does not, in itself, infringe on IP rights. However, if an EMU operator 1) added new SW content (Mace Windu's Saber for example) or 2) caused monitary harm to the MMO company, then ALL bets are off.
But DEVELOPING the EMU is NOT illegal in itself...
Rekrul's referance above
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
You are ABSOLUTLY correct, and I wouldn't disagree anything you've said. However, "getting" those things is NOT garunteed. But is it possible? Absoluty, and I wouldn't argue against that. Well said.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by rikilii
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
You are ABSOLUTLY correct, and I wouldn't disagree anything you've said. However, "getting" those things is NOT garunteed. But is it possible? Absoluty, and I wouldn't argue against that. Well said.
Something just occured to me. The emu site indicates that players will need to purchase the client, that any version will work, and that the emu will provide a patch.
What is going to be in this patch? Won't it have to contain content, such as user interface graphics, etc., to "get the client to the right point?"
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Something just occured to me. The emu site indicates that players will need to purchase the client, that any version will work, and that the emu will provide a patch.
What is going to be in this patch? Won't it have to contain content, such as user interface graphics, etc., to "get the client to the right point?"
The single weakpoint of this project.
Any client you purchase before NGE contains the same resources as pre-cu. I believe that even the current post-NGE still contain unchanged data (trial doesn't though).
But here's the problem. No distribution has ever included pub 12.1 (or whichever they use) swgclient_r.exe. Which is where the important stuff is.
This file, unlike other resource files, can no longer be obtained from SOE. The only way to get it, well, is illegaly. The argument that you bought the game is very weak here, and distributing this file can be considered an act of piracy. Now, it would be possible to distribute this file under Fair Use (you bought SWG, but your file got corrupted by SOE patcher, so you obtain the binary identical copy), but nobody can validate that you indeed have purchased the original copy. I'm also not sure if Fair Use covers such a scenario, but it's definitaly more plausible than just putting the file on a torrent.
The devil is always in the details, and this is a might important one.
Bottom line is, this file needs to be distributed. Nobody, except SOE has legal right to distribute this file. Patcher doesn't really fix the problem here.
wow i have A.D.D. and even if i really do wanna read all this its not possible. so im just gonna call a lawyer and ask rofl. BTW EMU team this is your canadian FISH freind and let me know if i can help test this thing teehee
Comments
Say what you want, but if the guy's wrong, he's wrong. He made a lot of unsubstantiated claims, none of which really make any sense if you have even the remotest understanding of IP law.
If you think he's so correct, please help me find any evidence that he knows what he's talking about.
Where did you study intellectual property law? I dont make claims that I understand something I am not involved in, experienced in or studied.
I don't think anything about his argument besides its all rehetorical trash on both sides. Until a lawsuit is even filled you cannot make legal arguments speculating what the legal argument is for either side because you have no idea what basis one side is going to make and speculating about what someones options are is retarded. We all know SOE/LA can sue the EMU. We all know the emu will defend itself from a lawsuit. WTF is the debate about?
Who would theoritically win a made up lawsuit?
Jesus and santa clause. They will show up and tag team soe/la in a royal rumble that has the emu elimatated for cheating with a chair from under the ring mate.
Evidence of what? Neither of you have any clue. However, I suspect the parts are a seize and desist letter followed by a court order is likely against the emu pending the results of any theoritically lawsuit is standard par for the course. Of course there is legal prescendence that allowed Blackberry to continue its service will disputing its claims against IP law, which the lost and where forced to settle. So guess what idiots, either could occur.
Anything can happen in the court as both present legal arguments for there side. Speculating about it before it occurs and not basing your arguments on case law is like watching fox news debate legal stories. Hell say anything you want in this debate. I think Yodi might show up at trial and make a compelling argument on how the darkside flourishes when you download songs illegally off the internet.
Where did you study intellectual property law? I dont make claims that I understand something I am not involved in, experienced in or studied.
I don't think anything about his argument besides its all rehetorical trash on both sides. Until a lawsuit is even filled you cannot make legal arguments speculating what the legal argument is for either side because you have no idea what basis one side is going to make and speculating about what someones options are is retarded. We all know SOE/LA can sue the EMU. We all know the emu will defend itself from a lawsuit. WTF is the debate about?
Who would theoritically win a made up lawsuit?
Let's get a bit real here for a second. Anyone claiming that lawsuit is a done deal and dealing with emulators providing access to LEC property has nothing to fear is naive. Ignorantly so, since simply laughing into the face of large corporations is dangerous.
When dealing with lawsuits, courts are obviously involved. They are slow, involve lots of paperwork, time and money. Anyone sued needs legal representation, is under investigation, may get hardware confiscated, running it on employers time may get them fired, it will leave a record in their past of copyright infringement lawsuits.
Are you willing to go through this, go against dedicated legal teams of large corporations, who have no problem throwing 1 million dollars into a lawsuit they know they'll win, just as a public display of power? What if you do lose? RIAA lawsuits have cost students to go bankrupt, having to get financial plans just to pay of debts for next 15 years.
In the end, it comes down crashing on one person. Not the 500 emu players, but one of the people who ran, wrote code, or contributed to the project. And it's only then, that that person realizes, how alone and helpless they become. Many smirk, but mocking copyright laws or trivializing them is dangerous. Looking at some of the sites that intend to run these emulators, the lack of grammar alone is something to consider. Nobody, with such poor writing skills (no, saying it's just internet doesn't work here) can possibly have enough experience or knowledge on the topics involved.
Then, there are scape goats and martyrs. Let's say emu is open source, and it's spread out. LEC launches full scale legal assault on authors, and wins (if they want, they can win, if only since the lawyer is George's old school buddy). The authors end up taking all the heat. The emu is there, but that one person is screwed. Are you willing to be that person, martyr for the cause? Over a video game?
Individuals get forgotten quickly. Nobody hears of the losers. This isn't some martyr cause, it's writing a server emulator for a dated game, that was long forgotten by game industry. A community of thousands, where the industry takes 1 million as entry point. This isn't about proving moral or ethical aspects. It comes down to the individuals, which end up taking the heat.
But never mock big companies. Too many people ended up getting sacrified, their futures ruined, just because they were made examples of corporate firepower. In one year, nobody remembered why, but they have to live with it.
LucasArts is going into gaming again. What better way to scare away competition, than by lynching a wannabe coder, who doesn't realize the perils of copyright infringement, and legalities involved. It server no purpose, except as a warning. And they can do it just on a whim, as an excercise, to see how far the laws can be pushed. After all, legal team needs practice in enforcement of such laws in future online games.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Well said. But in the end, no one knows what LEC and SOE will do. If they are smart, they will hire the guy as Smed said he'd do, and if the Emu is any good, they'll buy it from him and use it to run classic servers.
But they have a right to protect their property, just as you have a right to keep people from taking your TV. So don't be surprised if the do it.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Bottom line, i dont know if its illegal, but we arent going to get sued by just playing it, so who cares.
For the Horde!
BUT.. the point is, the EMU guys are only developing the code. They aren't hosting ANYTHING.
SO therefore, they haven't and never will break any law. The code is original based on a different template... so they aren't even stealing any code. SIMILAR code yes... different enough to be its own entity.
Now the people who actually HOST a server will be opening themselves up for whatever legal voodoo LA nd $OE decides to throw at them.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Wrong. All coding is IP. Client and server. You are not talking basic common (and common use) mathe principles like making a solitaire game here, rather you are talking about making coding that is bypassing security confirmations and such for a copyrighted client. IE the EMU server is fraudulently telling the client it is an official server. The legal violations go much further, but as soon as the client is able to log in the EMU server is violating copyright while comitting fraud.
You've probably already been taken to task over your reply but I dont have time to catch up on 7-odd pages so I'll just wade back in here.
The EMU server code is (as far as we know) 100% home grown so theres no problem there - everything else you describe is a EULA breach (i.e. unauthorised modification of the client) which may or may not be illegal (since its yet to be challenged in court)
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
That's the biggest shock to me. With all the EMU buzz out there, and all the excitement over it, you'd think they'd pull their heads out of their backsides long enough to say "Hey.. let's roll out 2 servers with Publish 12 code and CHARGE them to play!!!"
I mean really.
I go through the day saying humans just CAN'T be that stupid of an animal. Then things like this just make me suprised we walk upright at all.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Sorry for digging this up, but I missed it this morning:
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Kai,
There's no legal way they can hold it up. They can make the SWGEMU's peoples lives hell, but they can't stop the EMU.
Then once again how come several EMU's haven't held up in court? you also forget that this is one of STAR WARS.
No, SOE and Lucasarts will not be able to win in a court case of any kind. Because Smedley, the president of the company currently holding the LICENSE to this particular game told them to try. Even went so far as to say he would hire them if they pulled it off.
Ever hear of sarcasm? In other words Smedley doesn't take them seriously, and Smed is a known smartass. Such a statement as that he made is not legally binding in the least. Besides, he can't speak for both LEC and SOE.
Vyava I will repost since you don't seem to understand how an EMU functions:
No, it is NOT illegal, but IS against the EULA. I will explain. An EMU, or emulation, IS a SWG server, but not one run or coded by SOE. Since it is reassembled by packets & IS custom code, it is NOT a copy of SWG Server Code, and therefor NOT Illegal Pirating. Following so far? good. It is NOT doing this through the use of cracked packet data, since there is NOTHING to crack when looking at a packet. It is NOT misleading the client software since ALL the software is doing is connecting to a Server, you see, it has no choice and therefor CAN NOT be mislead, it is Modded. It is NOT illegally representing itself as somethign it isn't, since that in itself is NOT Illegal, but only against the EULA. This precident has NOT been shown with Lineage 2, UO, and EQ EMU lawsuits since NONE of these EMU's has been shut down, although EMU's that CHARGE have been. There are examples of ALL of those still running, especially UO.
EMULATION IS NOT ILLEGAL. Following so far? good. Show us one THING, ONE that says it is. Pirating IS Illegal, but the EMU is NOT a Pirated Server or Software. Reverse Engineering is NOT Illegal, but stealing code segments is.
You claim there is no legal route to use either original client or server software (which the EMU is NOT), but EVERY interpretation by experts (feel free to Google one) says differently. Following so far? good. ONLY when an EMU copies a game for the purpose of a) making profit, b) avoiding the legal purchase of the game or c) circumventing the Subscription source have rulings been against an EMU (Google Diablo II EMU). Are there arguments to made by both sides with the SWGEMU? Yes, but they haven't yet and you are HARDLY an athority, only a judge is. Saying something is Illegal DOESN'T make it so, and until a Judge rules on a SWGEMU case, the EMU is NOT Illegal.
Also, you claim, as someone else pointed out using an EMU server breaks the DMCA by bypassing the security within the client software, which means nothing since you have NO proof of it. Following so far? good.
Modifying the client without altering the protected materials IS NOT ILLEGAL. Following so far? good. Since the Server is NOT the same as SOE software, the Server Software is NOT Illegal. Now, what people do with the Servers COULD be Illegal, but that does not mean it will.
Last, adding condescending comments only serves to make you more abnoxious. Following so far? good.
Now I am back to work, where my company runs Transaction Servers and is currently dealing with competitors who have tried to reverse engineer & rewrite our software, you know, an EMU of our software...
Keep dreaming.
Every piece of artwork that the emu rips off is copyrighted.
The Acklay model and animations are copyrighted.
The wall textures are copyrighted.
The user interface is copyrighted.
The player animations are copyrighted.
The Bazaar terminal is copyrighted.
The skill trees are copyrighted.
The layout of Coronet is copyrighted.
The map of Naboo is copyrighted.
If you can see it in the game, it's copyrighted, and any emu developer who uses any one of those items in an emu version of SWG and distributes it without SOE and/or LEC's permission, is infringing that copyright. The penalties for infringement are not only the legal fees one might have to pay to defend oneself, but also criminal fines and potentially imprisonment.
It does not matter if you are making money on it, but it certainly is worse if you are:
17 U.S.C. § 506. Criminal offenses
[for those of you who haven't taken a civics class, that is a United States Statute, i.e. a LAW....Boring I know, but the good parts are in YELLOW, below, for those of you with A.D.D.]
So have fun with the emu. I hope you don't get any letters in the mail or visits from FBI agents about it.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
For the last time:
THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTING IT...
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
And several have. The line seems to be 1) Profit & 2) infringing on the companies market (which is by far the best arguement they have).
The Only thing SW brings to the fight is cash, which is a BIG stick granted.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
So have fun with the emu. I hope you don't get any letters in the mail or visits from FBI agents about it.
Good show.
Emu has no retail value. Client does. The above would apply if they were to distribute the client, or x copies that constitute cumulative value of $1000.
Emulator does not constitute copyright infringement, as long as it's ran for non-profit means.
This is where the legal gray area apears, in which certain emulators can exist.
They aren't providing anything of retail value, they are offering a non-profit service. None of the copyrighted contents are distributed or reproduced in the process. They are used by owners (legally purchased copies), but not distributed. The only content that is distributed, is the protocol contents, but those have no retail value.
However, in Vivendi vs. bnetd case, the judgement was only passed on allowing illegally purchased copies to be used, but not in the above mentioned cases of copyright infringement, since they are unaplicable to this particular case.
The legality of clients is a problem here as well, under the precedent, that using running an emu allows use of unauthorized clients (as defined by CD-key), thereby causing damages. The rest does not apply. And that is an unfortunate precedent, since it's universal to any online game, that uses CD-key to create accounts.
But everything else you state is unaplicable, and was shown to be so before.
Keep dreaming. Aren't you abnoxious
If you can see it in the game, it's copyrighted, and any emu developer who uses any one of those items in an emu version of SWG and distributes it without SOE and/or LEC's permission, is infringing that copyright. The penalties for infringement are not only the legal fees one might have to pay to defend oneself, but also criminal fines and potentially imprisonment.
For the last time:
THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTING IT...
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
There is no spoon.
The artwork is on a player machine, but is the intellectual property of the parent company, not you. Therefore they violate US copyright laws. the EU laws I hear are a lil more lax, but I don't know. The American intellectual property laws are fairly clear on this.
Then again, a lot of the people defending the EMU's legality also thought it was a serious idea to bring a lawsuit against SOE for the NGE.
There is no spoon.
The artwork is on a player machine, but is the intellectual property of the parent company, not you. Therefore they violate US copyright laws. the EU laws I hear are a lil more lax, but I don't know. The American intellectual property laws are fairly clear on this.
Then again, a lot of the people defending the EMU's legality also thought it was a serious idea to bring a lawsuit against SOE for the NGE.
That does not violate US Copyright laws, sorry. Rekrul put it far better than I ever could: Causing the MMO company monitary loss is the real issue, and that comes down to running the EMU Server. Let's also remember that IP law does not apply here since the EMU is all original code, and serves no function other than an exchange & does not, in itself, infringe on IP rights. However, if an EMU operator 1) added new SW content (Mace Windu's Saber for example) or 2) caused monitary harm to the MMO company, then ALL bets are off.
But DEVELOPING the EMU is NOT illegal in itself...
Rekrul's referance above
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
For the last time:
THEY ARE NOT DISTRIBUTING IT...
ALL OF THE ARTWORK IS ON A PLAYERS MACHINE, NOT THE SERVER...
THEY ARE NOT VIOLATING COPYRIGHT LAWS BY BUILDING THE EMU...
Why don't you read their site before claiming to know what they are doing, then Google EMU cases and read them. I did, and it's interesting & informative...
Oh, and remember: Keep dreaming.
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
You are ABSOLUTLY correct, and I wouldn't disagree anything you've said. However, "getting" those things is NOT garunteed. But is it possible? Absoluty, and I wouldn't argue against that. Well said.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Well, if they literally are not copying and distributing a single line of SOE's code, a single piece of SOE artwork, or any of the quest or mission content that is in the game, then you might be right. My apologies.
But there are a whole raft of other legal theories based on which LA and SOE can get injunctions against anyone who tries to run an emu server, and any user who violates the EULA by playing on one. And they might also be able to get relief against the emu developers for contributory copyright infringement and breach of the EULA.
You are ABSOLUTLY correct, and I wouldn't disagree anything you've said. However, "getting" those things is NOT garunteed. But is it possible? Absoluty, and I wouldn't argue against that. Well said.
Something just occured to me. The emu site indicates that players will need to purchase the client, that any version will work, and that the emu will provide a patch.
What is going to be in this patch? Won't it have to contain content, such as user interface graphics, etc., to "get the client to the right point?"
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Something just occured to me. The emu site indicates that players will need to purchase the client, that any version will work, and that the emu will provide a patch.
What is going to be in this patch? Won't it have to contain content, such as user interface graphics, etc., to "get the client to the right point?"
The single weakpoint of this project.
Any client you purchase before NGE contains the same resources as pre-cu. I believe that even the current post-NGE still contain unchanged data (trial doesn't though).
But here's the problem. No distribution has ever included pub 12.1 (or whichever they use) swgclient_r.exe. Which is where the important stuff is.
This file, unlike other resource files, can no longer be obtained from SOE. The only way to get it, well, is illegaly. The argument that you bought the game is very weak here, and distributing this file can be considered an act of piracy. Now, it would be possible to distribute this file under Fair Use (you bought SWG, but your file got corrupted by SOE patcher, so you obtain the binary identical copy), but nobody can validate that you indeed have purchased the original copy. I'm also not sure if Fair Use covers such a scenario, but it's definitaly more plausible than just putting the file on a torrent.
The devil is always in the details, and this is a might important one.
Bottom line is, this file needs to be distributed. Nobody, except SOE has legal right to distribute this file. Patcher doesn't really fix the problem here.