Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by Briansho
I agree, you would think though with WOW having almost 2000 more votes than EVE it could hold onto the top slots much longer. Too bad we dont have charts to show how people voted like the charts for movies on imdb.com.
Yeah the votes would count for alot more if people could see a break down of the votes. If it was all pretty close but **** game had better ratings then the vote would mean something. If it was 5 or 10% of the votes where in the 7-9 range and the other 5000 where 10s and 1s you could tell that vote was bs.
It's highly likely that any 10's and 1's are directly removed from the scoring as they are very likely just trying to artificially raise or lower the average, remember there are several categories that each game is rated in and the overal score is calculated based on those. WoW for instance has high scores in graphics, sound, fun and value and low scores in CS, stability/lag, community and roleplaying. EVE in comparison has high scores in graphics, sound, value, community, performance and CS and lower scores in Fun and Roleplaying, and the overall average of these scores is higher then WoW's, hence the higher rating.
It really is as simple as that, there is no conspiracy here.
Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT professionals in the developers community, they are part of the journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience, there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at least 1 from blizzard.
lol im still laughing at hte idiot that said wow has 6.6 mill subscribers and the number of all subscribers in all is 12 mill lol. wheres lineage and lineage 2 with 7-8 mill subs then wheres all of hte other games? also the only reason wow had some many players is because they have what are called "fanbois". i could think of many games that are better than this clone called WoW. one being saga of ryzom. laso one thing i dont like about wow the players are completly new to the mmorpgs community but just because they play wow htey think they know everything about mmorpgs and that wow is the best.... orly. if we were talking the best mmorpgs i would have to say its a flip between UO and EQ1
Originally posted by bobbler lol im still laughing at hte idiot that said wow has 6.6 mill subscribers and the number of all subscribers in all is 12 mill lol. wheres lineage and lineage 2 with 7-8 mill subs then wheres all of hte other games? also the only reason wow had some many players is because they have what are called "fanbois". i could think of many games that are better than this clone called WoW. one being saga of ryzom. laso one thing i dont like about wow the players are completly new to the mmorpgs community but just because they play wow htey think they know everything about mmorpgs and that wow is the best.... orly. if we were talking the best mmorpgs i would have to say its a flip between UO and EQ1
lineage and lineage 2 had 7-8 million registered users, not subs.
Originally posted by bobbler lol im still laughing at hte idiot that said wow has 6.6 mill subscribers and the number of all subscribers in all is 12 mill lol. wheres lineage and lineage 2 with 7-8 mill subs then wheres all of hte other games? also the only reason wow had some many players is because they have what are called "fanbois". i could think of many games that are better than this clone called WoW. one being saga of ryzom. laso one thing i dont like about wow the players are completly new to the mmorpgs community but just because they play wow htey think they know everything about mmorpgs and that wow is the best.... orly. if we were talking the best mmorpgs i would have to say its a flip between UO and EQ1
Originally posted by bobbler lol im still laughing at hte idiot that said wow has 6.6 mill subscribers and the number of all subscribers in all is 12 mill lol. wheres lineage and lineage 2 with 7-8 mill subs then wheres all of hte other games? also the only reason wow had some many players is because they have what are called "fanbois". i could think of many games that are better than this clone called WoW. one being saga of ryzom. laso one thing i dont like about wow the players are completly new to the mmorpgs community but just because they play wow htey think they know everything about mmorpgs and that wow is the best.... orly. if we were talking the best mmorpgs i would have to say its a flip between UO and EQ1
Actually, I clearly remember reading in a press release that the total mmorpg subscriber is about 12,5 million subscribers. now lets think about it for a moment.World of Warcraft have 6.5 million subscribers. the other 2 "in the million" games are Lineage and Lineage 2, both with about 2 million subscribers. those are the only 3 games that have subscribers in the millions. the other games are all about 200k subscribers and below. suddenly it all fits eh? The mmorpg market really isn't as big as some people think it is in terms of players.mmorpg chart also supports this theory: http://www.mmogchart.com/
geuss who looks like an idiot now eh?
minsc: "Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT professionals in the developers community, they are part of the journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience, there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at least 1 from blizzard."
oh, sure thing, I don't agree with it, but if thats what you believe, fine. did I already tell you Jon Smedley admits that he and more SOE developers played, like he says "the heck out of" WOW?
Originally posted by Minsc Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Briansho
I agree, you would think though with WOW having almost 2000 more votes than EVE it could hold onto the top slots much longer. Too bad we dont have charts to show how people voted like the charts for movies on imdb.com.
Yeah the votes would count for alot more if people could see a break down of the votes. If it was all pretty close but **** game had better ratings then the vote would mean something. If it was 5 or 10% of the votes where in the 7-9 range and the other 5000 where 10s and 1s you could tell that vote was bs.
It's highly likely that any 10's and 1's are directly removed from the scoring as they are very likely just trying to artificially raise or lower the average, remember there are several categories that each game is rated in and the overal score is calculated based on those. WoW for instance has high scores in graphics, sound, fun and value and low scores in CS, stability/lag, community and roleplaying. EVE in comparison has high scores in graphics, sound, value, community, performance and CS and lower scores in Fun and Roleplaying, and the overall average of these scores is higher then WoW's, hence the higher rating.
It really is as simple as that, there is no conspiracy here.
Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT professionals in the developers community, they are part of the journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience, there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at least 1 from blizzard.
Thanks can I take off my tinfoil hat now?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Who cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!"
Originally posted by vendris Who cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!"
just to comment on the britney spears part, nothing else!
Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vendrisWho cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!" just to comment on the britney spears part, nothing else! Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vendrisWho cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!"
just to comment on the britney spears part, nothing else! Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by apertotes
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vendrisWho cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!"
just to comment on the britney spears part, nothing else! Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game. what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow. And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
Originally posted by wjrasmussen Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by apertotes
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by vendrisWho cares how many subscriptions a game has? Why do WoW players constantly bring up the "WoW has 6.6 million subscribers!" mantra as if that means the game is good? That's like saying "More people listen to Britney Spears than John Coltrane, therefore Britney Spears is better music!"
just to comment on the britney spears part, nothing else! Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game. what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow. And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
I don't know, you only learn how accessible it is once you activated your account and started playing, so there is a big chance that didn't influence your choice on which mmorpg to play.
Like has it has been said so many times before, ratings on this site dont mean a thing.. On the other had this is what really matters when you get down to it WOW ... Only one MMORPG listed on that page, and it just happens to be about 2 years old..... WOW > Ryzom
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by katriell "What happened to the Zorai insisting on fighting the goo?" The Zoraï players didn't/don't care enough. If there were Zoraïs taking initiative and going out to the Goo-infected areas to massacre animals, claiming that they were cleansing the land of mutated creatures, there would be a difference. If Zoraïs were criticizing their government and the Kamis for their lack of action in the fight against the Goo, there would be a difference. But no. The players sit and wait for everything to come to them, then maybe they get bored and leave. "As for the "Raid" engine. When was the last time it was used???" I'm not clear on exactly when the RAID engine comes into play. Maybe it's used for all large-numbers-of-entities-onscreen events, such as outpost battles, kitin nests, and such. So when it was last used depends on how it's used... *shrug* In any case, why should Nevrax bother with it when the actions of the players indicate we don't care about or want it? Sure, you can go on forums OOC and whine endlessly, then leave because of "lack of promised content," but realize that actions speak louder than words. And the players aren't lifting fingers. If you want something, MAKE IT HAPPEN! Strike those Kitin again and again, make them angry, stir them up, bring the invasions. I'm willing to test this theory - as soon as some things in RL settle down, I will be pushing for "homin invasions." I also intend to run some events focused around traditional Zoraï culture (guided meditation, Goo cleansing missions, etc) with one of my alts.
Trust me there was a big push by the players to make the goo mean something. It never happened. There have been quests in the game for ever to fight infected goo creatures, except none exist. There have been attempts to have goo harvesting events, they have not done anything.
I'll give you a perfect example. When I was playing I setup events where a group of us went around to kill Karavan supporting tribes in Zorai lands. Due to a bug we even managed to kill the leader of the goo heads tribe. Did that change anything in the game or in the story direction. Did the devs kill off or move the goo heads? No. Everything just remained the same.
You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
Originally posted by sleepyguyftl You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
well that would be true if you ignored the invasion by the Muarader tribe when outposts were about to be introduced, and the recent assasination of the Tryker govenor and the elections that followed.
These story arc's have gone in different directions on the 3 shards... direct player actions the only reason.
Originally posted by rushin Originally posted by sleepyguyftl You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
well that would be true if you ignored the invasion by the Muarader tribe when outposts were about to be introduced, and the recent assasination of the Tryker govenor and the elections that followed.
These story arc's have gone in different directions on the 3 shards... direct player actions the only reason.
Who started the invasion by the Muarder? Was it player actions that introduced the story arc? Or was it something the devs thought up and the players choose one of several predetermined outcomes?
Same with the Tryker govenor assisnation. Did the players kill the govenor, or did the devs have that happen?
Who started the invasion by the Muarder? Was it player actions that introduced the story arc? Or was it something the devs thought up and the players choose one of several predetermined outcomes?
Same with the Tryker govenor assisnation. Did the players kill the govenor, or did the devs have that happen?
Now you're overstretching your point and looking a tad silly. The point was that players can influence the course of events.
Originally posted by sleepyguyftl You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
And WoW does change outside of devs? Hell since open, nothing has changed with WoW. At least with ryzom things have infact changed. To you it might be a little thing, but the fact still reminds that leaders have been swiched out a main character was assassonated.
Siehst du mich Erkennst du mich Ganz tief in meinem Herz ist noch ein Platz f?r dich Ich suche dich Ich sehne mich nach dem was ich geliebt hab doch ich find es nicht
Originally posted by Kyoruto Originally posted by sleepyguyftl You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
And WoW does change outside of devs? Hell since open, nothing has changed with WoW. At least with ryzom things have infact changed. To you it might be a little thing, but the fact still reminds that leaders have been swiched out a main character was assassonated.
Am I stretching things?
In Ryzom the devs act out the killing of a governor. They come up with the story, they play the npcs, and you see the thing happening. The they allow the players to vote for a new governor. The governor does not exist in game. The event happened outside of player control and the devs had predefined choices for the players to make.
And now that there is a new governor has anything changed in game? Has the game world changed at all? Is that change anything more than the illusion that players have control?
You argue that players have the ability to change the outcome of the story. Yet any choices the players make are really trivial things that really mean nothing in terms of game play or the game world.
Comments
I agree, you would think though with WOW having almost 2000 more votes than EVE it could hold onto the top slots much longer. Too bad we dont have charts to show how people voted like the charts for movies on imdb.com.
Yeah the votes would count for alot more if people could see a break down of the votes. If it was all pretty close but **** game had better ratings then the vote would mean something. If it was 5 or 10% of the votes where in the 7-9 range and the other 5000 where 10s and 1s you could tell that vote was bs.
It's highly likely that any 10's and 1's are directly removed from the scoring as they are very likely just trying to artificially raise or lower the average, remember there are several categories that each game is rated in and the overal score is calculated based on those. WoW for instance has high scores in graphics, sound, fun and value and low scores in CS, stability/lag, community and roleplaying. EVE in comparison has high scores in graphics, sound, value, community, performance and CS and lower scores in Fun and Roleplaying, and the overall average of these scores is higher then WoW's, hence the higher rating.
It really is as simple as that, there is no conspiracy here.
Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT professionals in the developers community, they are part of the journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience, there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at least 1 from blizzard.
lol im still laughing at hte idiot that said wow has 6.6 mill subscribers and the number of all subscribers in all is 12 mill lol. wheres lineage and lineage 2 with 7-8 mill subs then wheres all of hte other games? also the only reason wow had some many players is because they have what are called "fanbois". i could think of many games that are better than this clone called WoW. one being saga of ryzom. laso one thing i dont like about wow the players are completly new to the mmorpgs community but just because they play wow htey think they know everything about mmorpgs and that wow is the best.... orly. if we were talking the best mmorpgs i would have to say its a flip between UO and EQ1
You might want to check it out. It may not be the most accurate site ever, but I doubt it's off by a dozen million.
Also the whole game is a giant grind, which is why it is so addictive.
Grind levels.
Grind tradeskills.
Grind PVP rank.
Grind instances.
Grind instanced raids.
I would know I stupidly wasted my time grinding raids till I got fully epicced, then realised I was an idiot and ended my subscription.
On the moon, nerds have their pants pulled down and they are spanked with moon rocks!
geuss who looks like an idiot now eh?
minsc:
"Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT
professionals in the developers community, they are part of the
journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than
the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are
naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's
quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience,
there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at
least 1 from blizzard."
oh, sure thing, I don't agree with it, but if thats what you believe, fine. did I already tell you Jon Smedley admits that he and more SOE developers played, like he says "the heck out of" WOW?
I agree, you would think though with WOW having almost 2000 more votes than EVE it could hold onto the top slots much longer. Too bad we dont have charts to show how people voted like the charts for movies on imdb.com.
Yeah the votes would count for alot more if people could see a break down of the votes. If it was all pretty close but **** game had better ratings then the vote would mean something. If it was 5 or 10% of the votes where in the 7-9 range and the other 5000 where 10s and 1s you could tell that vote was bs.
It's highly likely that any 10's and 1's are directly removed from the scoring as they are very likely just trying to artificially raise or lower the average, remember there are several categories that each game is rated in and the overal score is calculated based on those. WoW for instance has high scores in graphics, sound, fun and value and low scores in CS, stability/lag, community and roleplaying. EVE in comparison has high scores in graphics, sound, value, community, performance and CS and lower scores in Fun and Roleplaying, and the overall average of these scores is higher then WoW's, hence the higher rating.
It really is as simple as that, there is no conspiracy here.
Oh, and gameloading, game reviewers are NOT professionals in the developers community, they are part of the journalistic community. They are generally little better informed than the average player and if you think they are free of bias then you are naive.
The only people who are qualified to judge a game's quality in my mind are other game developers and in my experience, there are a lot of devs from other games playing EVE, including at least 1 from blizzard.
Thanks can I take off my tinfoil hat now?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Anyway, after they edited the heck out of her voice, then her music doesn't sound that bad. altough its more a computer voice then anything else. anyway, Britney spears, may not be the best singer, but thats not the only reason she's popular. Britney Spears is a great STAR. there are so many more factors comming to what makes an artist popular then a game. Britney isn't only popular because of her voice.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
so maybe WoW isnt so popular just because of quality?
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
what made WoW so popular? well a lot of things, I'm sure the warcraft name and the Blizzard brand helped the game a lot, but I also believe its popular because its a very high quality game.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
And how accessible it is to the masses. Take a person who has never played an mmorpg before and sit them down for eq, eq2 or wow without any mods, cheats, hacks or macros and see which one they can really use. Most people it would be wow.
I don't know, you only learn how accessible it is once you activated your account and started playing, so there is a big chance that didn't influence your choice on which mmorpg to play.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I'll give you a perfect example. When I was playing I setup events where a group of us went around to kill Karavan supporting tribes in Zorai lands. Due to a bug we even managed to kill the leader of the goo heads tribe. Did that change anything in the game or in the story direction. Did the devs kill off or move the goo heads? No. Everything just remained the same.
You can argue all you want, but the fact is that player actions don't change what happens in Ryzom. Not unless the devs want it to.
These story arc's have gone in different directions on the 3 shards... direct player actions the only reason.
These story arc's have gone in different directions on the 3 shards... direct player actions the only reason.
Who started the invasion by the Muarder? Was it player actions that introduced the story arc? Or was it something the devs thought up and the players choose one of several predetermined outcomes?
Same with the Tryker govenor assisnation. Did the players kill the govenor, or did the devs have that happen?
Same with the Tryker govenor assisnation. Did the players kill the govenor, or did the devs have that happen?
Now you're overstretching your point and looking a tad silly.
The point was that players can influence the course of events.
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Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
Am I stretching things?
In Ryzom the devs act out the killing of a governor. They come up with
the story, they play the npcs, and you see the thing happening. The they allow
the players to vote for a new governor. The governor does not exist in game.
The event happened outside of player control and the devs had predefined
choices for the players to make.
And now that there is a new governor has anything changed in game? Has
the game world changed at all? Is that change anything more than the illusion
that players have control?
You argue that players have the ability to change the outcome of the
story. Yet any choices the players make are really trivial things that really
mean nothing in terms of game play or the game world.