Originally posted by Wildcat84 Originally posted by maxanto Nice! Did you learn your impressive posting techniques at the School for Flamers: Posting 101?
I am very grown up thanks. However trying to talk some sense into some of you is a waste of my time. Flame me all you want it only proves my point at the c rowd I am dealing with. Since the discussion of free servers is against the rules this thread will be deleted soon enough.
Have a nice day and flame on!
If developing a server emulator to talk to a legally purchased SWG client is illegal, then how come the guys who develop the Linux kernel (reverse engineered Unix), guys who wrote SAMBA (reverse engineered Windows server emulator) not in prison, but are part of a multi billion dollar server industry?
SAMBA costs Microsoft money, yet there is nothing illegal about it. There is no such thing as a RIGHT to profit.
Microsoft has EULA's prohibiting reverse engineering too. Guess what, it's not worth the electrons its printed on because the law allows reverse engineering, always has, always will, or American innovation will cease to be...
Ok since the mod said we can talk about this let me fill you all in a little.
The Tre and the Dll files that you need to play this game are from the SWG CD. Those files are used in this "open source" project. That was defined in what I read on their website. Those files are the intellectual property of SOE and LA.
If these guys made their own client not using anything from SWG and their own server source then it would be truely an open source project. Since some of you are so FOR this project your blind to the OBVIOUS legal ramifications. I have read up on this in quite some length and it clearly maps out that reverse enginering is legal ATM (though congress is going to change this soon) if you use anything from copy written software it is clearly illegal.
I am not a fanboi of the new game or the old game (though I stoped playing when the NGE came out) and I personally would love to see a game simular to SWg come out if it was devolped by someone other than LA or SOE.
However I can not condone theft, whether its music, art, design, or software stealing is wrong period. If you are comphy with it cool good bny you I don;t care, but don't sit here flame me and tell me I am wrong. I know the law. I know what these guys have and are doing. If you really want to know go to their forum and read what THEY wrote.
TRE's and DLL's are client software that is owned by SOE. Those files are being used in this illegal project. End of story.
Ok since the mod said we can talk about this let me fill you all in a little.
The Tre and the Dll fiels that you need to play this game are from the SWG CD. Those files are used in this "open source" project. That was defined in what I read. Those files are the intellectual property of SOE and LA.
Nope. Check the sources. The tre and dll files are NOT used by the emulator.
All compilable code consists of the following: - Written from scratch source code - MySQL includes - ZLib includes - Some additional unrelated libraries like threads - Data obtained through packet captures
There are no tre files distributed, as a matter of fact, it states nicely, that in order to use the emulator, go buy the game.
This way, you use the game you purchased. However, in the event that SOE find out about you using the project, they find you in violation of EULA, and may terminate the "Account" (First paragraph of EULA).
This however, bears no effect on your ownership of the CDs. If it did, it would mean that everyone who has had account banned, would need to return the CDs back to publisher under penalty of law. Which, obviously, is not the case, since EULA is an agreement pertaining to the "Account" and covers the use of "Software" in conjunction with "Account". The CDs and their contents are still yours, but in order to use them, you must obey copyright laws.
This means, if you're found in violation of EULA, and action is taken against you, you lose the rights to the "Account" as made available to you through "CD-Key" that is included in software package. If your "Account" is terminated, you are no longer able to use the "Account", hence you can no longer violate EULA, if you connect to emulated server.
However, you must not take any action that would violate the copyrights that cover the contents of the CD. Such as reproduction, distribution, modification, or similar actions covered under various general and specific international and local copyright laws.
Installing and using the client you bought is not illegal. The only thing covered in EULA (the click-wrap license) is your "Account", not "Software". Hence, those two may work together under rules set down by EULA.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Wildcat84 Originally posted by maxantoNice! Did you learn your impressive posting techniques at the School for Flamers: Posting 101? I am very grown up thanks. However trying to talk some sense into some of you is a waste of my time. Flame me all you want it only proves my point at the c rowd I am dealing with. Since the discussion of free servers is against the rules this thread will be deleted soon enough. Have a nice day and flame on!If developing a server emulator to talk to a legally purchased SWG client is illegal, then how come the guys who develop the Linux kernel (reverse engineered Unix), guys who wrote SAMBA (reverse engineered Windows server emulator) not in prison, but are part of a multi billion dollar server industry?SAMBA costs Microsoft money, yet there is nothing illegal about it. There is no such thing as a RIGHT to profit.Microsoft has EULA's prohibiting reverse engineering too. Guess what, it's not worth the electrons its printed on because the law allows reverse engineering, always has, always will, or American innovation will cease to be... Ok since the mod said we can talk about this let me fill you all in a little.The Tre and the Dll files that you need to play this game are from the SWG CD. Those files are used in this "open source" project. That was defined in what I read on their website. Those files are the intellectual property of SOE and LA. If these guys made their own client not using anything from SWG and their own server source then it would be truely an open source project. Since some of you are so FOR this project your blind to the OBVIOUS legal ramifications. I have read up on this in quite some length and it clearly maps out that reverse enginering is legal ATM (though congress is going to change this soon) if you use anything from copy written software it is clearly illegal.I am not a fanboi of the new game or the old game (though I stoped playing when the NGE came out) and I personally would love to see a game simular to SWg come out if it was devolped by someone other than LA or SOE. However I can not condone theft, whether its music, art, design, or software stealing is wrong period. If you are comphy with it cool good bny you I don;t care, but don't sit here flame me and tell me I am wrong. I know the law. I know what these guys have and are doing. If you really want to know go to their forum and read what THEY wrote.TRE's and DLL's are client software that is owned by SOE. Those files are being used in this illegal project. End of story.Enjoy your flaming.
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
If I was going to build a car all by myself, wouldn't it behoove me to learn how the internal combustion engine works? Wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe buy an old clunker and take it apart to see how it all works together? Now of course if I went and made an exact replica of a Ford Mustang and called it the Jon Horse, Ford is going to sue me for copyright infrigement. But if I made a new car, of my own design, a new engine, of my own design, then no one is going to sue me.
These guys DID NOT steal anything. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall trying to explain this to people. They are looking at the traffic going over the network and trying to replicate that BY WRITING NEW CODE. It's like me trying to learn to speak French by watching movies. After I see enough people saying Bonjour to each other when they first meet, I'm going to assume that they're saying hi. So I'll start saying bonjour==hi. In reality, bonjour actually means good day, and it can be used to say hello and good-bye. But let's say I don't know how to write french, I might spell bonjour like banzhur. If I went up to someone and said banzhur and it sounded enough like bonjour, they would understand what I'm trying to say.
So when they see 0x0008UIHEFUH when you jump in game, they can write code that spits that out. Can that code be written a million different ways? Sure. That is not stealing.
If someone from the inside gave them the actual server files that were used on SOE servers, then yes that's stealing.
Don't insult Rekrul, he's nice. There are ways of getting your point across without calling him an idiot. The more you insult someone the smaller it makes you look and does nothing for proving your argument.
Originally posted by LilT Originally posted by kanezfan Don't insult Rekrul, he's nice. There are ways of getting your point across without calling him an idiot. The more you insult someone the smaller it makes you look and does nothing for proving your argument.
I don't even remember what I said, it got deleted. Reading his last couple posts, I agree with him, so maybe I was talking to someone else.
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
lol. Blinders? Why would I have blinders on? How is my life affected by these guys in any way? Why would I insist its theft? Are they robbing me?
The answer to every question above is no.
Can we discuss this without reverting to childish name calling and swearing? The LEGAL point I am trying to educate you all on is simple. If the guys runing this project made a client/server on their own I would be the first in line to help test it.
That is not what they did. They used files from the game to RE a server and are not using their own client to interact with it.
I am ALL for open source. This is not open source. I got flamed saying I don't know wot open source is? Well I administrate in a MYSQL enviroment. I help test several OS projects involving MYSQL both server and client side and I use everything I can from open source sources as I think and I am glad that someone is trying to compete with "The Man"
I hate what SOE and LA did to my favorite game to the point where I threw away nearly 3 years of game play. My instincts would be to go to their forums and praise them for trying to stick it to SOE, but my brain stops me and says "Hey this is theft and stealing is never right"
So if your conscience allows you to steal hey thats fine. All the "They are not stealing" in the world does not change what they are doing and have done. Argue with me all day long. Its in their own forums in their own words. So in effect you are not argueing with me you are argueing with the devolpers of your emulation project.
Oh please keep banging your head against the wall. It makes your posts a lot more entertaining to read
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
If someone from the inside gave them the actual server files that were used on SOE servers, then yes that's stealing.
Yes, i know what tre files are.
Nobody gave them server files.
Tre files contain client-side snapshot data, static and instanced object model, as well as client-side resources.
This is a common technique used when replicating data, where you define domains about which data gets marshalled, replicated or statically copied. it's a common concept, look under data serialization, real-time database replication, object marshalling and remote procedure calls.
Tre files do not contain a single byte of data used by server. This comes from design. Every single piece of logic or logic related data is kept exclusively on server.
Even more, during client-server communication, no data of any kind relating to logic is sent. Ever. The only insight into internal data is what you can get through /examine command, which returns textual description. Even weapon data, armor stats, none of that is ever in any way sent to the client nor is it accesible from client.
This presents a very clear separation between presentation data (what you need to render graphical elements) and the values that represent the logic.
Now, to the open source server. That server doesn't use tree files. It doesn't use dlls. Wouldn't make much sense, since the code is portable between various platforms, most of which aren't Windows compatible.
All data used by the server is obtained from the data protocol.
The legalities. You state: "they wrote on the forums" - Not legal evidence, since there's nothing in the release source code to support that thesis. I know, I went through it.
Stealing: There was no case of IP theft in case of released source code. The code that is being currently distributed in source code form is not stoled, but was written by the aformentioned team. The code does exhibit an unusal artefact - it apears to be interoperable with some swgclient_r.exe applications, which, even when unmodified, can succesfully communicate with the open source server.
The interoperability clause under DMCA is not applicable, as was proven in every single trial.
The only emulator that has been succesfully shutdown under the terms of copyright violation was the bnetd. In that case, emulator required patch to be applied to client, in order to ignore some packets which were generally required and without which the server and client couldn't communicate. In that case, modifying the byte code available to clients resulted in DMCA violation (and even then plenty of dubious mechanisms were involved). The end result of ruling had nothing to do with emulator, it had to do with distributing a client-side crack.
No emulator has so far been succesfully shut down by law. The exceptions that did happen, were all shutdown for other reasons, but never ever due to reverse engineering, interoperability or non-official server provision.
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
If someone from the inside gave them the actual server files that were used on SOE servers, then yes that's stealing.
Yes, i know what tre files are.
Nobody gave them server files.
Tre files contain client-side snapshot data, static and instanced object model, as well as client-side resources.
This is a common technique used when replicating data, where you define domains about which data gets marshalled, replicated or statically copied. it's a common concept, look under data serialization, real-time database replication, object marshalling and remote procedure calls.
Tre files do not contain a single byte of data used by server. This comes from design. Every single piece of logic or logic related data is kept exclusively on server.
Even more, during client-server communication, no data of any kind relating to logic is sent. Ever. The only insight into internal data is what you can get through /examine command, which returns textual description. Even weapon data, armor stats, none of that is ever in any way sent to the client nor is it accesible from client.
This presents a very clear separation between presentation data (what you need to render graphical elements) and the values that represent the logic.
Now, to the open source server. That server doesn't use tree files. It doesn't use dlls. Wouldn't make much sense, since the code is portable between various platforms, most of which aren't Windows compatible.
All data used by the server is obtained from the data protocol.
The legalities. You state: "they wrote on the forums" - Not legal evidence, since there's nothing in the release source code to support that thesis. I know, I went through it.
Stealing: There was no case of IP theft in case of released source code. The code that is being currently distributed in source code form is not stoled, but was written by the aformentioned team. The code does exhibit an unusal artefact - it apears to be interoperable with some swgclient_r.exe applications, which, even when unmodified, can succesfully communicate with the open source server.
The interoperability clause under DMCA is not applicable, as was proven in every single trial.
The only emulator that has been succesfully shutdown under the terms of copyright violation was the bnetd. In that case, emulator required patch to be applied to client, in order to ignore some packets which were generally required and without which the server and client couldn't communicate. In that case, modifying the byte code available to clients resulted in DMCA violation (and even then plenty of dubious mechanisms were involved). The end result of ruling had nothing to do with emulator, it had to do with distributing a client-side crack.
No emulator has so far been succesfully shut down by law. The exceptions that did happen, were all shutdown for other reasons, but never ever due to reverse engineering, interoperability or non-official server provision.
The legalities. You state: "they wrote on the forums" - Not legal evidence. - No I was not offering this information for a court of law I was doing it so all of you people who base your judgements solely on the opinions of the people running the project could see for yourselves what they are doing and how they are doing it. The problem being this: How will they get the client to recognise their server software without adjusting the client software? They answer this in their forum. If you all would just read their information it would end this discussion.
I for one am not willing to put my posting privilages here at any more risjk just because you all want to argue some other persons opinion. Unlike the rest of you who want to name call and flame go ahead. because:
A) This will never happen. Sony Corp is a HUGE international Company. Lucas Arts is no small power either. If you bother to read their forums they are looking for help because they hit a stumbling block. That is why they are loking for more help (please see their help wantedposts in their forum)
So this is pointless.
Personally I hope they find a way to legally distribute client and server software so that this game can live on. I think throwing LAN parties using this would be a blast... Too bad it will never happen.
If I am wrong and I hope I am, I will be the first to admit it if it does happen legally.
The legalities. You state: "they wrote on the forums" - Not legal evidence. - No I was not offering this information for a court of law I was doing it so all of you people who base your judgements solely on the opinions of the people running the project could see for yourselves what they are doing and how they are doing it. The problem being this: How will they get the client to recognise their server software without adjusting the client software? They answer this in their forum. If you all would just read their information it would end this discussion.
I for one am not willing to put my posting privilages here at any more risjk just because you all want to argue some other persons opinion. Unlike the rest of you who want to name call and flame go ahead. because:
A) This will never happen. Sony Corp is a HUGE international Company. Lucas Arts is no small power either. If you bother to read their forums they are looking for help because they hit a stumbling block. That is why they are loking for more help (please see their help wantedposts in their forum)
So this is pointless.
Personally I hope they find a way to legally distribute client and server software so that this game can live on. I think throwing LAN parties using this would be a blast... Too bad it will never happen.
If I am wrong and I hope I am, I will be the first to admit it if it does happen legally.
Client doesn't know it's not official server. No modifications needed.
You're not risking your posting priviliges by discussing and argumenting. This is not against policies.
They aren't distributing the client.
Server can be distributed legally and is already being so.
A) Server has been released. It has happened. See also WoW emulator, UO emulator, ...
I stopped reading their forums when I got called an idiot who can't read, and was suggested not to get involved into affairs that I couldn't possibly comprehend.
Client doesn't know it's not official server. No modifications needed.
You're not risking your posting priviliges by discussing and argumenting. This is not against policies.
They aren't distributing the client.
Server can be distributed legally and is already being so.
A) Server has been released. It has happened. See also WoW emulator, UO emulator, ...
I stopped reading their forums when I got called an idiot who can't read, and was suggested not to get involved into affairs that I couldn't possibly comprehend.
lol Well if you believe what they say about their product why not believe them when they told you how stupid you are? Cause if they said it is legal and that you can't read they must be right? Just because a person says something, over and over again, does not make it so. It is in fact illegal and you are in fact able to read.
Honestly how has a server been released as they are now asking for more help in finishing it? Please define your A) point please. Feel free to e-mail me the info.
Honestly how has a server bneen released as they are now asking for more help in finishing it? Pleasedefine your A) point please. Feel free to e-mail me the info.
The information on where server can be downloaded is located in a sticky at the site in question. Since you have access to that site, look under ustickies in pdates section.
However, posting such link is in fact against mmorpg.com TOS, so I'll refrain from doing that.
A software release refers to the creation and availability of a new version of a computer software product. Each time a software program is changed, the programmers and company doing the work decide on how to distribute the changes or the changed system or program to those people using it.
Software release does not imply that software is, in fact, complete. Definition of completeness can only be considered in terms of existing functional specification, and even then, the closest that it's possible to get is functional completeness.
Generally accepted term for complete software is one, that satisfies the target users.
In this particular case, programmers have decided to release revision 3 of their source code. This code can be compiled to produce server-side software that is interoperable with certain SWG client versions.
Additionally, I do not believe anything that was said, especially regarding legalities. All of the comments I've made are my own. I am in no way affiliated with said team, nor do I represent their views. None of the comments I've made represent any other or refer to statements made by anyone else except me. If need be, I can reinforce all of the statements with factual evidence.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Force_choke Since the code went open source, do you think this will affect SOEs stance on pre cu servers?
It is not open source, it is stolen code... please remember there is a huge difference from what these guys pirated and what open source is.
Open source is code publically given that was created from scratch... These guys have publically asked people to send them data packets from old SWG clients.... So how is this open source?
Maxanto, you are clearly uninformed about what Open Source. How can you even use a keyboard and mouse????? Try taking a look at {Free,Net,Open}BSD and its History with AT&T and then UNIX Labs. Heck, even look at the lack of Success of SCO over Linux (same war, different battle). The lack of success comes from the honest implementation of public ideas.
Both of these OSes re-implemented from scratch seminal OS ideas. And neither has been defeated in Court. Sure, UC had to revise slightly, the core they released, but Bill Joy gave birth to i386 BSD which lead to the current branchs of Net,Open and FreeBSD. And Linux, geeze, the clooses thing Linux shares with the original source is Tanabaum's MINIX.
So, before you go defining Open Source Software and how it is engineered from existing ideas, do yourself a favor and review the history of such things.
I am not going to discuss this subject any further as it is against MMORPG's policies. However for all of you deluded people considering how I work with and in an open source enviroment I sure as hell do know what it is. If you all wish to delude yourselves into thinking this isn't theft go right on thinking that.
I refuse to argue with ignorant people talking out of their rear-ends.
I am also reporting this thread.
I know cannot discuss the subject any further because you don't undesrstand what open source. You probably don't even understand what the word "Free" means in terms of the Free Software Foundation.
So, you can continue to discuss your delusions, but frankly, those of us who work with GNU Software, FSF, *BSD, Linux, OpenOffice and understand what the difference is between the LGPL, GPL and the BSD license will be here to properly defend what Open Source is.
I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
I know cannot discuss the subject any further because you don't undesrstand what open source. You probably don't even understand what the word "Free" means in terms of the Free Software Foundation.
So, you can continue to discuss your delusions, but frankly, those of us who work with GNU Software, FSF, *BSD, Linux, OpenOffice and understand what the difference is between the LGPL, GPL and the BSD license will be here to properly defend what Open Source is.
Your arguement is as weak as your grammer. Please share your opinions after you learn how to express yourself a little better ok?
But you are right besides the conversion project I am CURRENTLY under going for my company (from windows 2k pro to Suse Linux 10.0) I know nothing about open source. Yea you are exactly right.
After you graduate and move on to high school please feel free to express yourself then. Thanks.
Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Its my bet that a lot of the peeps working on this now got tons of more talent than the clowns at SOE. The EMU is gonna happen.
Hauken Stormchaser I want pre-CU back Station.com : We got your game Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Maxanto: Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Maxanto: Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
Originally posted by LilT Originally posted by maxanto
YAY more flaming
I remember you from the Eclipse forums, you liked flaming there too
Yeaaa ok. PLEASE show me where I started to flame?
This entire thread people have flamed me though. I don't mind by the way its entertaining to read.
I hope I never hurt your feelings? Would you like a sholder to cry on? I feel bad now. I am so sorry I defended myself here. I will make it up to you ok? Give me a chance to win back your love and admiration. Lets see what can I do... oh I know. Make up BOGUS stories about fictional crap thats in my head and lie to the community where I heard it from...
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Right now the Devs have added the following to the Emulator:
Understanding SWG packets Interface with the database Dynamic loading Character loading
So, right now you can load into the game and walk around. Here is what's left to do:
Chat Inventory Combat Crafting Emotes All NPCs and NPC spawns Player housing
The Devs went open source so more people could help them. Right now non-team members have already gotten player surnames and local chat working. It helps spread the load.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Maxanto: Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Maxanto: Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Hmm how about by repeaditly saying I don't have the skills to understand the brainwashing crap you have been led to believe? No thats not it... maybe its cause someone who knows NOTHING about me appearently knows my skillset better than I do? Hmmmm getting warmer...
But my responce wasn't jsut to you it was to all the people flaming me in this thread. Sorry mate the sun, in fact, does not revolve around you.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Rabia Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Hauken I say 3-4 months and this thing will be operational. And it will crush SWG-NGE A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source. Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
lol A lot of talent thats hwy they need more people and thats why they went open source... cause they dont need anything extra? lol 3-4 months no one will even remember this gargabe!
Maxanto: Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Hmm how about by repeaditly saying I don't have the skills to understand the brainwashing crap you have been led to believe? No thats not it... maybe its cause someone who knows NOTHING about me appearently knows my skillset better than I do? Hmmmm getting warmer...
But my responce wasn't jsut to you it was to all the people flaming me in this thread. Sorry mate the sun, in fact, does not revolve around you.
Postive criticism dude. It is very clear that you don't know and understand some things. And part of my duties includes interviewing prospective Software Engineers. I was just politely pointing out how you gain a better understanding of how Open Source really works by joining an Open Source project. If the EMU doesn't fit your fancy, there are plenty of interesting projects for you to choose from.
Comments
SAMBA costs Microsoft money, yet there is nothing illegal about it. There is no such thing as a RIGHT to profit.
Microsoft has EULA's prohibiting reverse engineering too. Guess what, it's not worth the electrons its printed on because the law allows reverse engineering, always has, always will, or American innovation will cease to be...
Ok since the mod said we can talk about this let me fill you all in a little.
The Tre and the Dll files that you need to play this game are from the SWG CD. Those files are used in this "open source" project. That was defined in what I read on their website. Those files are the intellectual property of SOE and LA.
If these guys made their own client not using anything from SWG and their own server source then it would be truely an open source project. Since some of you are so FOR this project your blind to the OBVIOUS legal ramifications. I have read up on this in quite some length and it clearly maps out that reverse enginering is legal ATM (though congress is going to change this soon) if you use anything from copy written software it is clearly illegal.
I am not a fanboi of the new game or the old game (though I stoped playing when the NGE came out) and I personally would love to see a game simular to SWg come out if it was devolped by someone other than LA or SOE.
However I can not condone theft, whether its music, art, design, or software stealing is wrong period. If you are comphy with it cool good bny you I don;t care, but don't sit here flame me and tell me I am wrong. I know the law. I know what these guys have and are doing. If you really want to know go to their forum and read what THEY wrote.
TRE's and DLL's are client software that is owned by SOE. Those files are being used in this illegal project. End of story.
Enjoy your flaming.
The Tre and the Dll fiels that you need to play this game are from the SWG CD. Those files are used in this "open source" project. That was defined in what I read. Those files are the intellectual property of SOE and LA.
Nope. Check the sources. The tre and dll files are NOT used by the emulator.
All compilable code consists of the following:
- Written from scratch source code
- MySQL includes
- ZLib includes
- Some additional unrelated libraries like threads
- Data obtained through packet captures
There are no tre files distributed, as a matter of fact, it states nicely, that in order to use the emulator, go buy the game.
This way, you use the game you purchased. However, in the event that SOE find out about you using the project, they find you in violation of EULA, and may terminate the "Account" (First paragraph of EULA).
This however, bears no effect on your ownership of the CDs. If it did, it would mean that everyone who has had account banned, would need to return the CDs back to publisher under penalty of law. Which, obviously, is not the case, since EULA is an agreement pertaining to the "Account" and covers the use of "Software" in conjunction with "Account". The CDs and their contents are still yours, but in order to use them, you must obey copyright laws.
This means, if you're found in violation of EULA, and action is taken against you, you lose the rights to the "Account" as made available to you through "CD-Key" that is included in software package. If your "Account" is terminated, you are no longer able to use the "Account", hence you can no longer violate EULA, if you connect to emulated server.
However, you must not take any action that would violate the copyrights that cover the contents of the CD. Such as reproduction, distribution, modification, or similar actions covered under various general and specific international and local copyright laws.
Installing and using the client you bought is not illegal. The only thing covered in EULA (the click-wrap license) is your "Account", not "Software". Hence, those two may work together under rules set down by EULA.
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
If I was going to build a car all by myself, wouldn't it behoove me to learn how the internal combustion engine works? Wouldn't it be a good idea to maybe buy an old clunker and take it apart to see how it all works together? Now of course if I went and made an exact replica of a Ford Mustang and called it the Jon Horse, Ford is going to sue me for copyright infrigement. But if I made a new car, of my own design, a new engine, of my own design, then no one is going to sue me.
These guys DID NOT steal anything. I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall trying to explain this to people. They are looking at the traffic going over the network and trying to replicate that BY WRITING NEW CODE. It's like me trying to learn to speak French by watching movies. After I see enough people saying Bonjour to each other when they first meet, I'm going to assume that they're saying hi. So I'll start saying bonjour==hi. In reality, bonjour actually means good day, and it can be used to say hello and good-bye. But let's say I don't know how to write french, I might spell bonjour like banzhur. If I went up to someone and said banzhur and it sounded enough like bonjour, they would understand what I'm trying to say.
So when they see 0x0008UIHEFUH when you jump in game, they can write code that spits that out. Can that code be written a million different ways? Sure. That is not stealing.
If someone from the inside gave them the actual server files that were used on SOE servers, then yes that's stealing.
Don't insult Rekrul, he's nice.
For the Horde!
I don't even remember what I said, it got deleted. Reading his last couple posts, I agree with him, so maybe I was talking to someone else.
The answer to every question above is no.
Can we discuss this without reverting to childish name calling and swearing? The LEGAL point I am trying to educate you all on is simple. If the guys runing this project made a client/server on their own I would be the first in line to help test it.
That is not what they did. They used files from the game to RE a server and are not using their own client to interact with it.
I am ALL for open source. This is not open source. I got flamed saying I don't know wot open source is? Well I administrate in a MYSQL enviroment. I help test several OS projects involving MYSQL both server and client side and I use everything I can from open source sources as I think and I am glad that someone is trying to compete with "The Man"
I hate what SOE and LA did to my favorite game to the point where I threw away nearly 3 years of game play. My instincts would be to go to their forums and praise them for trying to stick it to SOE, but my brain stops me and says "Hey this is theft and stealing is never right"
So if your conscience allows you to steal hey thats fine. All the "They are not stealing" in the world does not change what they are doing and have done. Argue with me all day long. Its in their own forums in their own words. So in effect you are not argueing with me you are argueing with the devolpers of your emulation project.
Oh please keep banging your head against the wall. It makes your posts a lot more entertaining to read
Dude, read: The server INTERACTS with the client. They have to know how the server talk to the client to write an emu. This is how it's done. This is how it's always been done. I don't even know why I'm replying because you refuse to take off the blinders. Have you even looked inside a tre file? Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You just make these sweeping generalizations with no basis in reality.
If someone from the inside gave them the actual server files that were used on SOE servers, then yes that's stealing.
Yes, i know what tre files are.
Nobody gave them server files.
Tre files contain client-side snapshot data, static and instanced object model, as well as client-side resources.
This is a common technique used when replicating data, where you define domains about which data gets marshalled, replicated or statically copied. it's a common concept, look under data serialization, real-time database replication, object marshalling and remote procedure calls.
Tre files do not contain a single byte of data used by server. This comes from design. Every single piece of logic or logic related data is kept exclusively on server.
Even more, during client-server communication, no data of any kind relating to logic is sent. Ever. The only insight into internal data is what you can get through /examine command, which returns textual description. Even weapon data, armor stats, none of that is ever in any way sent to the client nor is it accesible from client.
This presents a very clear separation between presentation data (what you need to render graphical elements) and the values that represent the logic.
Now, to the open source server. That server doesn't use tree files. It doesn't use dlls. Wouldn't make much sense, since the code is portable between various platforms, most of which aren't Windows compatible.
All data used by the server is obtained from the data protocol.
The legalities. You state: "they wrote on the forums" - Not legal evidence, since there's nothing in the release source code to support that thesis. I know, I went through it.
Stealing: There was no case of IP theft in case of released source code. The code that is being currently distributed in source code form is not stoled, but was written by the aformentioned team. The code does exhibit an unusal artefact - it apears to be interoperable with some swgclient_r.exe applications, which, even when unmodified, can succesfully communicate with the open source server.
The interoperability clause under DMCA is not applicable, as was proven in every single trial.
The only emulator that has been succesfully shutdown under the terms of copyright violation was the bnetd. In that case, emulator required patch to be applied to client, in order to ignore some packets which were generally required and without which the server and client couldn't communicate. In that case, modifying the byte code available to clients resulted in DMCA violation (and even then plenty of dubious mechanisms were involved). The end result of ruling had nothing to do with emulator, it had to do with distributing a client-side crack.
No emulator has so far been succesfully shut down by law. The exceptions that did happen, were all shutdown for other reasons, but never ever due to reverse engineering, interoperability or non-official server provision.
The problem being this: How will they get the client to recognise their server software without adjusting the client software? They answer this in their forum. If you all would just read their information it would end this discussion.
I for one am not willing to put my posting privilages here at any more risjk just because you all want to argue some other persons opinion. Unlike the rest of you who want to name call and flame go ahead. because:
A) This will never happen. Sony Corp is a HUGE international Company. Lucas Arts is no small power either.
So this is pointless.
Personally I hope they find a way to legally distribute client and server software so that this game can live on. I think throwing LAN parties using this would be a blast... Too bad it will never happen.
If I am wrong and I hope I am, I will be the first to admit it if it does happen legally.
The problem being this: How will they get the client to recognise their server software without adjusting the client software? They answer this in their forum. If you all would just read their information it would end this discussion.
I for one am not willing to put my posting privilages here at any more risjk just because you all want to argue some other persons opinion. Unlike the rest of you who want to name call and flame go ahead. because:
A) This will never happen. Sony Corp is a HUGE international Company. Lucas Arts is no small power either.
So this is pointless.
Personally I hope they find a way to legally distribute client and server software so that this game can live on. I think throwing LAN parties using this would be a blast... Too bad it will never happen.
If I am wrong and I hope I am, I will be the first to admit it if it does happen legally.
Client doesn't know it's not official server. No modifications needed.
You're not risking your posting priviliges by discussing and argumenting. This is not against policies.
They aren't distributing the client.
Server can be distributed legally and is already being so.
A) Server has been released. It has happened. See also WoW emulator, UO emulator, ...
Honestly how has a server been released as they are now asking for more help in finishing it? Please define your A) point please. Feel free to e-mail me the info.
Honestly how has a server bneen released as they are now asking for more help in finishing it? Pleasedefine your A) point please. Feel free to e-mail me the info.
The information on where server can be downloaded is located in a sticky at the site in question. Since you have access to that site, look under ustickies in pdates section.
However, posting such link is in fact against mmorpg.com TOS, so I'll refrain from doing that.
Definition of release: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release
A software release refers to the creation and availability of a new version of a computer software product. Each time a software program is changed, the programmers and company doing the work decide on how to distribute the changes or the changed system or program to those people using it.
Software release does not imply that software is, in fact, complete. Definition of completeness can only be considered in terms of existing functional specification, and even then, the closest that it's possible to get is functional completeness.
Generally accepted term for complete software is one, that satisfies the target users.
In this particular case, programmers have decided to release revision 3 of their source code. This code can be compiled to produce server-side software that is interoperable with certain SWG client versions.
Additionally, I do not believe anything that was said, especially regarding legalities. All of the comments I've made are my own. I am in no way affiliated with said team, nor do I represent their views. None of the comments I've made represent any other or refer to statements made by anyone else except me. If need be, I can reinforce all of the statements with factual evidence.
Open source is code publically given that was created from scratch... These guys have publically asked people to send them data packets from old SWG clients.... So how is this open source?
Maxanto, you are clearly uninformed about what Open Source. How can you even use a keyboard and mouse????? Try taking a look at {Free,Net,Open}BSD and its History with AT&T and then UNIX Labs. Heck, even look at the lack of Success of SCO over Linux (same war, different battle). The lack of success comes from the honest implementation of public ideas.
Both of these OSes re-implemented from scratch seminal OS ideas. And neither has been defeated in Court.
Sure, UC had to revise slightly, the core they released, but Bill Joy gave birth to i386 BSD which lead to the current branchs of Net,Open and FreeBSD. And Linux, geeze, the clooses thing Linux shares with the original source is Tanabaum's MINIX.
So, before you go defining Open Source Software and how it is engineered from existing ideas, do yourself a favor and review the history of such things.
I am not going to discuss this subject any further as it is against MMORPG's policies. However for all of you deluded people considering how I work with and in an open source enviroment I sure as hell do know what it is. If you all wish to delude yourselves into thinking this isn't theft go right on thinking that.
I refuse to argue with ignorant people talking out of their rear-ends.
I am also reporting this thread.
I know cannot discuss the subject any further because you don't undesrstand what open source.
You probably don't even understand what the word "Free" means in terms of the Free Software Foundation.
So, you can continue to discuss your delusions, but frankly, those of us who work with GNU Software, FSF, *BSD, Linux, OpenOffice and understand what the difference is between the LGPL, GPL and the BSD license will be here to properly defend what Open Source is.
And it will crush SWG-NGE
A lot of talent out there working on this after it went open source.
Ill have synth.steak and Vasarian brandy that day for dinner.
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
You probably don't even understand what the word "Free" means in terms of the Free Software Foundation.
So, you can continue to discuss your delusions, but frankly, those of us who work with GNU Software, FSF, *BSD, Linux, OpenOffice and understand what the difference is between the LGPL, GPL and the BSD license will be here to properly defend what Open Source is.
Your arguement is as weak as your grammer. Please share your opinions after you learn how to express yourself a little better ok?
But you are right besides the conversion project I am CURRENTLY under going for my company (from windows 2k pro to Suse Linux 10.0) I know nothing about open source. Yea you are exactly right.
After you graduate and move on to high school please feel free to express yourself then. Thanks.
Its my bet that a lot of the peeps working on this now got tons of more talent than
the clowns at SOE.
The EMU is gonna happen.
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
Maxanto:
Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
Maxanto:
Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
I remember you from the Eclipse forums, you liked flaming there too
For the Horde!
I remember you from the Eclipse forums, you liked flaming there too
Yeaaa ok. PLEASE show me where I started to flame?
This entire thread people have flamed me though. I don't mind by the way its entertaining to read.
I hope I never hurt your feelings? Would you like a sholder to cry on? I feel bad now. I am so sorry I defended myself here. I will make it up to you ok? Give me a chance to win back your love and admiration. Lets see what can I do... oh I know. Make up BOGUS stories about fictional crap thats in my head and lie to the community where I heard it from...
Will that make me your hero then?
Right now the Devs have added the following to the Emulator:
Understanding SWG packets
Interface with the database
Dynamic loading
Character loading
So, right now you can load into the game and walk around. Here is what's left to do:
Chat
Inventory
Combat
Crafting
Emotes
All NPCs and NPC spawns
Player housing
The Devs went open source so more people could help them. Right now non-team members have already gotten player surnames and local chat working. It helps spread the load.
I answer rehtorical questions.
Maxanto:
Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your
understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Maxanto:
Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your
understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Hmm how about by repeaditly saying I don't have the skills to understand the brainwashing crap you have been led to believe? No thats not it... maybe its cause someone who knows NOTHING about me appearently knows my skillset better than I do? Hmmmm getting warmer...
But my responce wasn't jsut to you it was to all the people flaming me in this thread. Sorry mate the sun, in fact, does not revolve around you.
Maxanto:
Open Source is about collaboration and sharing. The major achievement of Linus Torvalds was not Linux, but how used collaboration to extend his original creation. BSD was also an early pioneer of an "Open" style of software collaboration during the 1980s. So, I don't see why you are so down on this style of software development as it has clearly be very successful.
So, I suppose your lacking in the key skills to contribute, but that is okay. You could be a tester instead of comlaining. That would certainly be helpful to the project in that capacity. You do say you have lots of experience with opensource software.... is that as an Admin? Tester? Or prehaps just a user?
YAY more flaming
Network and client administration. Though these days I am mostly doing Telco work. My free time is dedicated to Eve online and work with PHP and MYSQL mostly. I am not a programmer (except I know html, java, xml, php etc...) so I don't have a lot of experience with compliers or de-compliers (for RE) but no I am not a kid I am a 36 year old IT Professional who has worked in the industry for 12 years.
I only have one PC that has microsoft software at home and thats strictly for gaming. My other boxes, are strictly Suse Linux both client and server. I run a Novell Netware 6.5 network at home.
How am I flaming you? I clearly responded to your posts with concrete examples of how your
understanding about Open Source was mistaken. Here, I just encourage you instead of complaining about a project to get involved and learn.
So, it really sounds like you could learn a thing or two not only about what Open Source Projects really are, but enhance your technical skills at the same time. Certainly, that will benefit you far more than spreading your misunderstanding of what Open Source is.
Hmm how about by repeaditly saying I don't have the skills to understand the brainwashing crap you have been led to believe? No thats not it... maybe its cause someone who knows NOTHING about me appearently knows my skillset better than I do? Hmmmm getting warmer...
But my responce wasn't jsut to you it was to all the people flaming me in this thread. Sorry mate the sun, in fact, does not revolve around you.
Postive criticism dude. It is very clear that you don't know and understand some things. And part of my duties includes interviewing prospective Software Engineers. I was just politely pointing out how you gain a better understanding of how Open Source really works by joining an Open Source project. If the EMU doesn't fit your fancy, there are plenty of interesting projects for you to choose from.