Whoops, you're right about the Romans one. I, for whatever reason, only read the first verse, not the whole sequence.
After reading a little more, I have to agree. I wasn't totally aware of some of the other passages regarding this. It does seem that this is given much more significance than the laws of food, etc.
It still bothers me that people pick and choose which laws to follow. True, some only make sense in a primitive, tribal culture, but not all.
On a side note, I see a lot of religious people say that masturbation is a sin. Yet in Leviticus, it's mentioned in the same sense as the laws regarding food, wearing of multi-textile clothing, cutting your beard, etc. Which is it? Is fapping as wrong as buggering? Or just as wrong as eating shrimp?
To hit up the main topic again: Civil unions should be available to any two people who desire it. Tax benefits and divorce pains included. I don't see any other viable options, as per the spirit of American freedoms. If we as a country restrict a legal status to a particular group, or restrict a particular group from enjoying that legal status based on anything (other than legal statuses such as felonies, non-citizens, etc), then we are certainly in violation of our American ideals.
When I say "American ideals" I don't mean the ideals of the majority, I mean the ideals of truth and freedom.
----------------------------- Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
Originally posted by Belsameth Silly americans Why do you care who somebody else loves or marries? It's not like you yourself are being forced into a gay marriage...
Get off your moral high horse already, you've no right to be there in the first place...
Exactly, I think we should abolish anything that has to do with any morals.
If someone wants to marry their car, then get a divorce and they get 2 million dollars in the settlement, cool.
If a woman finds out she is attracted to dogs and leaves her husband for the great dane and marries it, cool.
If someone decides they want to be married to both a man and a woman and carry out multiple nurturing and caring relationships in the house, cool.
If I discover I was meant to be married to as many women as possible, I will marry them all and have tons of kids.
As long as noone is hurting anyone else or doing damage to society and culture, why not?
Do I sound like an attention whore yet? Down with all morals of any kind from now on. Anyone see a problem with this you can talk to my lawyers because me, my lawyers, and God have worked out an acceptable plan for me. Not a divine trinity, a Me Trinity. I have talked with my lawyers and God and God looked through the bible and has not found anything wrong with what I'm doing or will be doing. He has left final judgement up to me and my lawyers since its my soul and free will.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I have not spent the time to read this whole debate, but frankly the government has no business dictating if gay "marriages" are legal or not. "Marriage" by old and ancient standards is a relgious ceremony and as I believe our government is set up with separation of church and state. If churches want to give marriages or not is their business. All the State can ever offer you is a union. You can not force people to provide what they do not want. So only as people believe in freedom, diversity, and liberty they must also accept the fact that not everyone will be accepted. There is no perfect society and there is no grand change in the psychology of people. The more you try to force your ideas and beliefs on others the more of a hypocrit you are. The most people should strive for is tolerance. Anyone that thinks that one day everyone will "ACCEPT" every belief is a fool...strive for tolerance of every view and you might succeed. The more you force someone to ACCEPT the more you drive a wedge that will only end in conflict.
Originally posted by Horusra I have not spent the time to read this whole debate, but frankly the government has no business dictating if gay "marriages" are legal or not. "Marriage" by old and ancient standards is a relgious ceremony and as I believe our government is set up with separation of church and state. If churches want to give marriages or not is their business. All the State can ever offer you is a union. You can not force people to provide what they do not want. So only as people believe in freedom, diversity, and liberty they must also accept the fact that not everyone will be accepted. There is no perfect society and there is no grand change in the psychology of people. The more you try to force your ideas and beliefs on others the more of a hypocrit you are. The most people should strive for is tolerance. Anyone that thinks that one day everyone will "ACCEPT" every belief is a fool...strive for tolerance of every view and you might succeed. The more you force someone to ACCEPT the more you drive a wedge that will only end in conflict.
Problem is, you dont need to enter a church to get married and you can divorce anytime (against the church), and the state offer diferent protection and tax benefits for unions and marriage, as you said since the US government is set up with separation of church and state, everybody should have the same rights, that is to marry any other individual no matter the gender, or making all the marriages out of religious ones unions, but then the only marriages who would have tax benefits and protection should be marriages who would be unions also.. That way everybody who divorce can still make an union and not a marriage, and not insult the religious zealots
Divorce is only not really accepted by a few religions. In ancient times multiple marriages and divorces were a norm. I think that people need to focus on equal rights for Unions and not talk about marriages. To many people if you say gay marriage they bristol...if you say Gay union they do not care. As Sun Tzu would say attack your enemy where they are not looking. If all that Gays want is equal rights then stop saying marriage and it will probably slip through and they will get what they want. If they want to fight keep saying marriage. Many in America will never accept homosexuality as being morally acceptable. Thus asking these people to give up their holy "marriage" to an "immoral" practice will only end in a large divide. I love the fact that people in mordern times expect instant results and acceptance. This has never been a human trait. Humans mentality has not changed since ancient times. Only through slow acceptance does anything work its way in. Hell democracy started around 5000 BC or so as a thought and it took about 15000 years for it to come into an accepted practice and it still has not shown itself to be a viable government type.
Well, since this isn't supposed to be about religion, then I won't post anything having to do with it. But I've noticed some people claim that homosexuality is something you are born with. This may be true, though I'm sure there are those people out there that also choose this lifestyle or preference by free will. Now if I were to say that blindness and defects of the heart are not bad because people are born with them, then does this support my argument?
And even though I did have a Constitution class in gradeschool which covered it more closely than any of my classes in college, I'll refrain from posting anything further because, like German, I've forgotten everything and I'm 2 laZ 2 do anythin bout 't.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
Originally posted by Briansho Originally posted by Belsameth Silly americans Why do you care who somebody else loves or marries? It's not like you yourself are being forced into a gay marriage...
Get off your moral high horse already, you've no right to be there in the first place...
Exactly, I think we should abolish anything that has to do with any morals.
If someone wants to marry their car, then get a divorce and they get 2 million dollars in the settlement, cool.
If a woman finds out she is attracted to dogs and leaves her husband for the great dane and marries it, cool.
If someone decides they want to be married to both a man and a woman and carry out multiple nurturing and caring relationships in the house, cool.
If I discover I was meant to be married to as many women as possible, I will marry them all and have tons of kids.
As long as noone is hurting anyone else or doing damage to society and culture, why not?
Do I sound like an attention whore yet? Down with all morals of any kind from now on. Anyone see a problem with this you can talk to my lawyers because me, my lawyers, and God have worked out an acceptable plan for me. Not a divine trinity, a Me Trinity. I have talked with my lawyers and God and God looked through the bible and has not found anything wrong with what I'm doing or will be doing. He has left final judgement up to me and my lawyers since its my soul and free will.
I think the fact that we're talking about two people coming together in a legal union is something you should consider. It's for purposes that could end up benefiting society as a whole. It doesn't necessarily even have to be a gay issue. If you lived with a roommate who was unable to get insurance, you could use this to get them on your policy. We're living in a society where it's next to impossible to live on a single person income anyway. So something like this is pretty much needed for single people too. It doesn't have to have the "marriage" label placed upon it. Just a civil union that affords the same rights and legal recognition as a marriage license. Then the religions can go back to their churches and keep their word and practice.
Comments
After reading a little more, I have to agree. I wasn't totally aware of some of the other passages regarding this. It does seem that this is given much more significance than the laws of food, etc.
It still bothers me that people pick and choose which laws to follow. True, some only make sense in a primitive, tribal culture, but not all.
On a side note, I see a lot of religious people say that masturbation is a sin. Yet in Leviticus, it's mentioned in the same sense as the laws regarding food, wearing of multi-textile clothing, cutting your beard, etc. Which is it? Is fapping as wrong as buggering? Or just as wrong as eating shrimp?
To hit up the main topic again: Civil unions should be available to any two people who desire it. Tax benefits and divorce pains included. I don't see any other viable options, as per the spirit of American freedoms. If we as a country restrict a legal status to a particular group, or restrict a particular group from enjoying that legal status based on anything (other than legal statuses such as felonies, non-citizens, etc), then we are certainly in violation of our American ideals.
When I say "American ideals" I don't mean the ideals of the majority, I mean the ideals of truth and freedom.
-----------------------------
Listen Asmodeeus, seven years ago, Ultima Online didn't even have those pathetic "quests" that you refer to or those "professions" of ninja, samurai, necromancer, and paladin. Nor did it have any of the neon crap, or bug mounts. It didn't even have any "combat moves." You turned on attack and jousted with simplistic swings. It was a better game then. if you can't guess why then just uninstall the thing and move along. - Crabby
Why do you care who somebody else loves or marries?
It's not like you yourself are being forced into a gay marriage...
Get off your moral high horse already, you've no right to be there in the first place...
If someone wants to marry their car, then get a divorce and they get 2 million dollars in the settlement, cool.
If a woman finds out she is attracted to dogs and leaves her husband for the great dane and marries it, cool.
If someone decides they want to be married to both a man and a woman and carry out multiple nurturing and caring relationships in the house, cool.
If I discover I was meant to be married to as many women as possible, I will marry them all and have tons of kids.
As long as noone is hurting anyone else or doing damage to society and culture, why not?
Do I sound like an attention whore yet? Down with all morals of any kind from now on. Anyone see a problem with this you can talk to my lawyers because me, my lawyers, and God have worked out an acceptable plan for me. Not a divine trinity, a Me Trinity. I have talked with my lawyers and God and God looked through the bible and has not found anything wrong with what I'm doing or will be doing. He has left final judgement up to me and my lawyers since its my soul and free will.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Well, since this isn't supposed to be about religion, then I won't post anything having to do with it. But I've noticed some people claim that homosexuality is something you are born with. This may be true, though I'm sure there are those people out there that also choose this lifestyle or preference by free will. Now if I were to say that blindness and defects of the heart are not bad because people are born with them, then does this support my argument?
And even though I did have a Constitution class in gradeschool which covered it more closely than any of my classes in college, I'll refrain from posting anything further because, like German, I've forgotten everything and I'm 2 laZ 2 do anythin bout 't.
"Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
"Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain
If someone wants to marry their car, then get a divorce and they get 2 million dollars in the settlement, cool.
If a woman finds out she is attracted to dogs and leaves her husband for the great dane and marries it, cool.
If someone decides they want to be married to both a man and a woman and carry out multiple nurturing and caring relationships in the house, cool.
If I discover I was meant to be married to as many women as possible, I will marry them all and have tons of kids.
As long as noone is hurting anyone else or doing damage to society and culture, why not?
Do I sound like an attention whore yet? Down with all morals of any kind from now on. Anyone see a problem with this you can talk to my lawyers because me, my lawyers, and God have worked out an acceptable plan for me. Not a divine trinity, a Me Trinity. I have talked with my lawyers and God and God looked through the bible and has not found anything wrong with what I'm doing or will be doing. He has left final judgement up to me and my lawyers since its my soul and free will.
I think the fact that we're talking about two people coming together in a legal union is something you should consider. It's for purposes that could end up benefiting society as a whole. It doesn't necessarily even have to be a gay issue. If you lived with a roommate who was unable to get insurance, you could use this to get them on your policy. We're living in a society where it's next to impossible to live on a single person income anyway. So something like this is pretty much needed for single people too. It doesn't have to have the "marriage" label placed upon it. Just a civil union that affords the same rights and legal recognition as a marriage license. Then the religions can go back to their churches and keep their word and practice.
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</OBAMA>