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Israel attacks Lebanon, leaving many dead
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Ad.1) What WMD? Dr. Kay, a WMD specialist hand-picked by President Bush and SecDef Rumsfeld and approved by a Republican Congress, toured Iraq extensively after the war. No WMD. The US armed forces in Iraq have sofar come up with nothing tangible. Narly every site then StateSec Powell pointed out in that infamous UN speech has been proven NOT to be WMD. Powell now distances himself from that speech.
Ad. 2/5/7) The US declared war on Iraq, which had no WMD, which had no intent to attack the US and was generally just a bigmouth well-contained. North Korea has nuclear weapons and has declared its intentions to attack the US with such weapons if threatened. The US reaction to that: talks. As for regime change and dictators, no US military action on Belarus's Lukashenko, none on Zimbabwe's Mugabe, none on any dictators and potentates around the world. Not even n Cuba's Castro, the perennial bad man of US politics.
ad. 3) So, instead of hunting down Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, who orchestrated the bombing of the WTC parking garage, the bombing of the US Juan Cole, the bombing of the US embassies in East Africa, and not least the master mind of 9/11, you go after Saddam Hussein, who had no connection to that at all.
Furthermore, 15 of the 20 9/11 terrorists were Saudi. none was Iraqi. Yet Saudi-Arabia is untouched and Iraq in pieces.
ad .4) Iraq was in violation of one UN resolution. Israel is currently in violation of UN resolutions 106,111, 127, 162, 171, 228, 237, 248, 250, 251, 252, 256, 259, 262,
265, 270, 271, 279, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 317, 332, 337, 347, 425,
427, 444, 446, 450, 452, 465, 467, 468, 469, 471, 476, 478, 484, 487,
497, 498, 501, 509, 515, 517, 518, 520, 573, 587, 592, 605, 607, 608,
636, 641, 672, 673, 681, 694, 726, 799. 32 further were veto'ed by the US.
ad 5)(again) Example: Equatorial Guinea. A dictatorship. With lots of oil. Which it sells to the US. The President has lately declared protesting against him an act of terrorism. He has forbidden newspapers and bookshops as 'he will tell the people what they need to know.' He has said that criminals, including people who want to vote against him or protest against him, have no human rights. Another example the vote fraud riots in Uzbekistan which the US ignored because it needs the Uzbecki air bases.
Reaction from the White House: not a peep. The US is doing the same in the WoT as it did with comminism during the cold war. Any two-bit dictator who declares himself an anti-terrorist gets US help. Even if it means ignoring the actions of said dictator. At the same time any action against terrorist declared by whomever get seal-of-approval from the US.
ad. 6) Hans Blix was the chief UN weapons inspector in Iraq. He and his teams scoured the country for WMDs. None were ever found. See ad.1) for what the Bush-chosen inspections found.
ad 7) And some liberation it is. Oilfields and the oil ministery are protected. schools, hosptals, museums and ibraries are not and therefore plundeed and burned. The Iraqi National Museum still lists 7000 items as missing. The FBI has a list of some of them on its website. The Iraqi National Library was burnt down, destroying books and writings from the first sultanate. Theinsurgency has now been in its 'last throes' for several years. Iraq has 'turned a corner' more often than your average Indy 500 driver. There is still no permanent water or electricity supply in most of the major cities. The Kurds are about to split off, triggering a war with Turkey whch does not want a free Kurdstan. The Shi'ites are about to join Iran. Iraq is on the brink of civil war with 'only' 3600 dead this month sofar.
A statue toppled for the media is no liberation.
ad 8) What Al-Qaeda connections? The closest proven connection ever was a contact between an Iraqi ntelligence officer and an Al Qaeda operative in Prague. Else nothing. And I'm pretty sure that Bush and the White House would have shouted it from the rooftops if they had found any true proof.
Also Iraq was a secular Ba'athist nation, Saddam and the Ba'athist party above all. Al Qaeda are radical-fundamentalist islamist, Allah and Islam above all. Not compatible.
ad 9.) Threat? He was a big bluffing, blustering bigmouth with no weapons. If that's all it takes for the US to declare someone an 'imminent threat' and invade, they'd need to invade half the planet.
ad 10) see above. No WMD, nothing to disarm.
ad 11.) see above. Saddam was all mouth, no action.
I'll tell you why the US are attacking Iraq...
Look at the Flag of Israel, 2 blue lines and the Star.
The Star is Israel.
The 2 lines are the Nail River and the Europhat River, the USA are planning to give the area between these 2 rivers to Israel, because it's their rightful place they mention, not just jerusalem, no.
it's this Whole area between these 2 rivers.
The fight is supposed to take this long, even longer, maybe another 40 years or something, but the intentions are clear.
although the USA troops are getting kicked in the butt, and the Israel is getting more hated now along with it's unlawful mother the USA, it won't be that long before the word of Allah comes, and his wrath will turn the tide against the evil ones.
Saddam himself thought he had weapons lol. He had some i guess but not WOMD. Perhaps he moved weapons through his country? for money? many times? He did have chemical weapons back during gulf war but the UN inspectors dismantled those weapons and programs.
1. He had none.
2. This I understand but did it create a better situation for anyone? Not really. People say they got democracy but there's war that won't stop now until the U.S. leaves. It is ironic.
3. U.S. war disrupted Iraq and let in terrorists. Above, the war is with them now and they relate us with Israel. Do you know how many hundreds of years that's been going on. That's just great. I'm not saying this can be changed or fix or will even turn out good. It probably won't ever. We can only hope bleh.
4. Should've been taken care of when we went there the first time. I can't believe we went back... It's like hmm, oh well do this, not do that, do this, again, do that, we forgot that, didn't plan for that, blah.
5. There is nothing I can do to deny that. Saddam has murdered many people. I just think if we were gonna go to war we could've planned it better and waited to take the time to do that. I wish there was a way to avoid this conflict but sometimes even I see the reality of things and what was comiing back then. It's wierd that Bush talked about Iraq what was it, like a week after 9/11. Ridiculous.
6. Bull.
7. Planning. You can't rush war. If I believed in the Bible(I'm not saying theres no higher power) and all it's teachings and "stories" I would say it's a sin. A man came into my gas station saying Bush was the devil because he claimed jesus while he speaks of war that he got. Just thought I'd mention that because I never thought of that way until this 40yr old dude with a mexican accent(good english) started going off.
8. Blah. Saddam kept terrorist out of his country because he was a power freak. Maybe arms dealing for profit but al queda should've been taken care of where al queda was.
9. I disagree as I've pretty much said already.
10. They had hardly any weapons to fight compared to the U.S. and seeing as the military budget is the largest in the world. The spending on this war have been huge because we are now fighting endless stream of terrorists. Iraq is nothing when put up against that. So them building a huge strength wasn't a threat and there's no WOMDs.
11. Huessein was a threat to himself and the people that lived in his country. Which is why we went to war with him. Like I said we should have taken him out of power when he invaded kuwait(right? im rusty) and was murdering shites or sunnis(again no time to look up or wipe my rust) my the thousand or however many it is. Reality is as it is now.
12. Iraq/Saddam was going to replace their American dollars with Euros. Maybe causing other countries in the region to follow causing weaking in U.S. economy.
13. Oil. Which is bizarre cuz with half the money spent on this war we could have some real prospects to look forward to in the future, better then what is current.
I see what your saying with that last part. I actually don't agree with the slaying of jews because of the past. I didn't realize I was agreeing with that when I was defending the Aussie because I misunderstood that part. I just thought he was trying to have backround for implied conflict. Whoops.... i hate that word. I believe the state should be somewhere far away. If we love Isreal's inhabitants so much why don't we bring them here. This is why I don't really support organized religion and ridiculous ideas like the "holy land". I don't know how the understanding of that false idle commandment doesn't include that. When I read that commandment that's what it totally implies to me, churches, crosses, holy land, it's not needed. Ever seen Stigmata the movie? Like that. I know, there will be no changing of the world on this forum. If you remove the jews people say on this forum the muslims(extremist vs. whatever, extremists?) will still fight amongst themselves. That is not our problem. Maybe if one group gains control and starts mass slaying another holocaust style otherwise it's not our problem. Like huessain.... blah PLANNING>@! damint
HELL YA REAPEAT. WE CALL YA BUDDY!!
The current US budget and US national debts are far more dangerous, as is the US dependency on oil. Get rid of those 1mile/gallon (ok, exaggeration, but not by much) SUVs and use a high-efficiency compact car instead.
The US is at the moment loaning money from China and then giving it right back to China by buying Chinese goods. Just check the origin of most non-food consumer goods in your average WalMart. The average US credit card debt is a staggering US$ 8.500!!! US Federal Interest rates have only been going up since 2001 making bank debts and mortgages more expensive. The average US savings index is now negative, i.e. US consumersc are actually spending more money than they get in. If anything is going to crack the US economy, that is. Not the €.
I wasn't trying to say it was a main reason. just one i thought of and have read about. The whole euro thing and the debt are strongly related. The U.S. dollar is stretched as you said and the euro is new but not stretched thin and worth more atm. The unified European countries have created somehthing fairly strong. It's unfortunate there on the same continent as the war. You never know what might happen. The consumer debt has alot to do with the dollar dropping for euro possiblity in the mideast although it probably would be disregarded as conspiracy and can be since it wasn't allowed to happen, if it was going to that is
.
edit Although if our economy suffers all suffer as you pretty much also said by saying our currency is main at world bank. edit
Actually the European Central Bank thinks the € is too strong vs. the US$. A strong € makes European exports into the US more expensive, while foreign imports paid in US$ become cheaper. They'd prefer a 1:1 parity.
I'd be less worried about the € and more about Beijing. If China starts calling in those Federal Bonds and the US has nothing to pay them back with, China will be in its right to confiscate any collateral the US might have used to secure those Federal Bonds, i.e. gold reserves, land, etc.
The US is currently the world's main spender and consumer and no longer a producer. Last year Germany, in a deep economic crisis and with only 30% of the population, created and exported more goods than the US.
Turkie want to join the EU and has a border with both, the EU and the Leban. Leban is on the Mediterranean sea as well as Israel.
Israel and Leban where part of the Roman Empire while many members of the EU where never. This conflict is extremely close to EU.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I have finally figured out why this debate is going no where.
1. There are a ton of anti-Jew people out there.
2. There are a ton of anti-American people out there.
3. There are a ton of anti-Bush people out there.
Add them together = self destructive retarted Democrats.
Turkie want to join the EU and has a border with both, the EU and the Leban. Leban is on the Mediterranean sea as well as Israel.
Israel and Leban where part of the Roman Empire while many members of the EU where never. This conflict is extremely close to EU.
Turkey will have to wait a long time before joining the EU. Its civil liberties and human rights record are still too bad. See the oppression of the Kurds as one example of that. Also they are still denying the Armenian genocide.
The Roman Empire point is correct, though I admit that I fail to see its importance here. Lebanon and Iraq were also part of the Mongol Empire, yet you don't see Mongolia fretting over it.
The EU btw, especially France, is very nvolved. It was left to the French President, Jacques Chirac, to call most
clearly for a ceasefire, a resumption of Israeli-Palestinian
negotiations, and the implementation of Resolution 1559, “on the clear
understanding—and all the Lebanese have to understand and recognize
this— that there cannot be a politically stable Lebanon shouldering her
responsibilities and pursuing her development, a democratic Lebanon, if
part of her territory is occupied by militia who do not obey the
central Lebanese government.”
You on the other hand have sofar only brought insults. I look forward to reading your facts.
A debate is a give-and-take, a presentation of different points-of-view, of different facts. It is not a collection of only 'Yes'-sayers.
You on the other hand have sofar only brought insults. I look forward to reading your facts.
A debate is a give-and-take, a presentation of different points-of-view, of different facts. It is not a collection of only 'Yes'-sayers.
Regardless of what facts I give you, you will drink your cool aid and hope to see dead Jews, losing Americans, and a failed Bush. What is the point of telling you anything. Now do me a favor and go to the fridge and pur yourself a nice big glass of cool-aid.
In other words, you have no facts and again prefer to insult me rather than to answer me. By the way, I don't drink CoolAid, too many chemicals. I do not hope to see dead jews, my people risked a lot dring WWII to save them. I equally don't want to see losing or dead Americans, life is too precious a commodity.
As for President Bush, I don't hope to see him fail, he has already failed. His behaviour at the G8 meeting was a clear indicator of that.
I by the way suggest that you in support of your words go see your local US Army Recruiter. For Canton, MA the closest is: NORWOOD, 372 Washington Street Westwood, MA 02090,
In other words, you have no facts and again prefer to insult me than to answer me. By the way, I don't drink CoolAid, too many chemicals. I do not hope to see dead jews, my people risked a lot dring WWII to save them. I equally don't want to see losing or dead Americans, life is too precious a commodity.
As for President Bush, I don't hope to see him fail, he has already failed. His behaviour at the G8 meeting was a clear indicator of that.
I almost expected you to say that. You want Bush to fail. You'll never admit it. Its also a waste of time for me to give you the facts. You'll say they are wrong and hate Bush anyway and you will hate America, and you will want dead Jews. End result of me getting facts for you equals nothing. You are the very definition of a cool aid drinker. No make sure to drink only the cool aid your leader told you to drink.
Turkie want to join the EU and has a border with both, the EU and the Leban. Leban is on the Mediterranean sea as well as Israel.
Israel and Leban where part of the Roman Empire while many members of the EU where never. This conflict is extremely close to EU.
Turkey will have to wait a long time before joining the EU. Its civil liberties and human rights record are still too bad. See the oppression of the Kurds as one example of that. Also they are still denying the Armenian genocide.
The Roman Empire point is correct, though I admit that I fail to see its importance here. Lebanon and Iraq were also part of the Mongol Empire, yet you don't see Mongolia fretting over it.
Both of these points where simply to underline that even if "not on the same continent", they are VERY close...1 country away at most...and they even share the same government (Roman Empire) as most of Europe at one moment in history. Roman legacy is heavy in many ways. Leban and Israel are very close to EU. I have no doubts that Turkie won't access EU, the Greeks can veto it anyway. Just making sure they doesn't veto is a task in itself.
The distance between the most-western part of Europe and Leban is smaller than some Canadian provinces. VERY close. This area of the world is "Asia" in the book, but honestly, it is "Asia-Europe-Africa", all 3 of these. Anyway, where does Europe ends exactly in Russia? On the world map, a big part of Europe in Ukraine and Russia is more eastern than Leban or Israel, yet nobody will argue that Ukraine is in Europe, not in Asia.
This is like putting a border and saying: Central America...very hard to justify. From a land point of view at least. When we learn continents, we learn North America and South America...we never learn of Central America as a continent, yet it doesn't belong in North America nor in South America...so where does it exactly belong since it isn't a continent?
Side note...didn't Vichy France and Free France kill each other in Leban in WW2?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Both of these points where simply to underline that even if "not on the same continent", they are VERY close...1 country away at most...and they even share the same government (Roman Empire) as most of Europe at one moment in history. Roman legacy is heavy in many ways. Leban and Israel are very close to EU. I have no doubts that Turkie won't access EU, the Greeks can veto it anyway. Just making sure they doesn't veto is a task in itself.
The distance between the most-western part of Europe and Leban is smaller than some Canadian provinces. VERY close. This area of the world is "Asia" in the book, but honestly, it is "Asia-Europe-Africa", all 3 of these. Anyway, where does Europe ends exactly in Russia? On the world map, a big part of Europe in Ukraine and Russia is more eastern than Leban or Israel, yet nobody will argue that Ukraine is in Europe, not in Asia.
This is like putting a border and saying: Central America...very hard to justify. From a land point of view at least. When we learn continents, we learn North America and South America...we never learn of Central America as a continent, yet it doesn't belong in North America nor in South America...so where does it exactly belong since it isn't a continent?
Side note...didn't Vichy France and Free France kill each other in Leban in WW2?
Europe ends around the Ural Mountain range, that's the continental divide. A small part of Turkey, old Thracia, is actually European, the rest is Asian. Btw, here in Europe, America is still often regarded as one continent.
Vichy France and de Gaulle's Free France faught each other in many French colonies. I know mainly of the conflicts in West Africa though, esp. Senegal where de Gaulle won. As for Lebanon and Syria, they were invaded by British and Australian troops after an Iraqi revolt in June 1941. (History so likes to repeat itself. Or are it the historians?)
The only thing stopping Turkish accession to the EU is the Germans who hate them. Turkish immigration and cheap labour is a big problem for them.
Israel and Lebanon were part of the turkish Empire and after WW1 divided up between Britain and France. Britain in Israel, France in Lebanon. Both countries still take an intrest in the region.
Greece can't veto anything. Not if it wants it's subsidies to continue.
No, just the Democrats who hate the US, hate Jews and will say anything to make Bush look bad. Just like a previous enrty that said 21 excuses for war, that is a prime example of what I am talking about. Also, remember, some of the reasons overlap to us but if you took that to a lawyer, the lawyer would say the verbage is different and each one covers a different angle of the problem. Democrats have just started nay saying anything Bush does because they hate him. If he wants to kill terrorists, they become freedom fighters. If he wants to help the Jews, the Jews are commiting war crimes. If he wants to veto something, vetos are wrong (even though Clinton did it). Do you see the hate the left has? Its blinding them and they are willing to see America fall to see Bush fall. All they want is power and they are willing to give the cool-aid drinkers lies to doit. Thats why I hate Democrats.