Wow... Why do you people need to be forced to play the emu?
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
Originally posted by Bissrok Wow... Why do you people need to be forced to play the emu?
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
Trying to make the devolpers of the emulation look good is a dying cause bud. Check out their forums, ask them some decent questions and you will quickly see your hero's in the same light as many others that have had bad experiences with them... and this is before they start running a server. Imagine their god complexes after they actually get one going...
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Bissrok Wow... Why do you people need to be forced to play the emu?
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
Trying to make the devolpers of the emulation look good is a dying cause bud. Check out their forums, ask them some decent questions and you will quickly see your hero's in the same light as many others that have had bad experiences with them... and this is before they start running a server. Imagine their god complexes after they actually get one going...
IF they ever get one going.
I would rather put trust into someone who was able to create an EMU, than continue to palce faith into the devs / managment over at SOE / LEC. As it stands right now, and as much as you wan to diss the EMU people, they have more credibility than what SOE / LEC does.
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
You say I am dissing them? I disagree. I am painting them in the light that they earned. If you read their forums you will understand. They treat their users even worse than SOE does... and that should say enough.
I also do not trust SOE either. Like I have said before I won't play with these emulation devs any sooner than I would with SOE.
Originally posted by Bissrok Wow... Why do you people need to be forced to play the emu?
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
i have to agree with max, the moderators over at the SWG EMU forums arent the nicest people. People ask decent questions, and their thread gets locked, then you got a official dev or 2 qutting for NO reason, it really looks like they want the open source devs to take it away, while they lock every post asking for updates or how they can help with the game.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
i have to agree with max, the moderators over at the SWG EMU forums arent the nicest people. People ask decent questions, and their thread gets locked, then you got a official dev or 2 qutting for NO reason, it really looks like they want the open source devs to take it away, while they lock every post asking for updates or how they can help with the game.
What kind of updates do you want. They have no plan and no procedures, they probably never heard of management or had any kind of experience with it.
People offering help have little to offer. Most aren't even coders, those that are have done some HTML and PHP programming. Those aren't even languages.
People jumping in with "will the xp from bol be 511 or properly rounded to 510 as it should be" type of question have no place in server development forum.
Long unsubstantiated debates about future and features at this point are completely unwarranted, as well as all the "how do I", "will you add", "when will" type of questions.
Those boards, if they were to serve any development purpose, would be about threading issues, database performance and design, management tools, code organization, task organization, feature development monitoring and similar.
The SWG community has a severly distorted picture of what forums are intended for.
The emu forum mods are doing what needs to be done, but they are doing it in an extremly untactful manner.
But why do people still need to make at least one post per day asking when it's coming out or what the progress is?
Look at this forum. How many times every week is there a triple post about something, because so many post without looking at first 3 topics. Same with those forums.
I personally would have created two forums. One, free for all, where people can talk among themselves. No mods, who cares. Then, the second one, which is invitation only, and is limited strictly to active developers about current features. This almost completely solves the problem of moderation, and only gross offenders can be banned as needed.
Yeah, the SWGEMU devs are pretty quick to reach for the lock, but then again these aren't valid topics we're talking about. Most are answered in the FAQs, or already being dicussed on the same page. And even then, it's not a permaban, just a 3-day ban.
But for account security, it will be different from server to server. Just search the server's website and see if its trustable or not. If it isn't just leave and find a new one.
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by tvalentine
i have to agree with max, the moderators over at the SWG EMU forums arent the nicest people. People ask decent questions, and their thread gets locked, then you got a official dev or 2 qutting for NO reason, it really looks like they want the open source devs to take it away, while they lock every post asking for updates or how they can help with the game.
What kind of updates do you want. They have no plan and no procedures, they probably never heard of management or had any kind of experience with it.
People offering help have little to offer. Most aren't even coders, those that are have done some HTML and PHP programming. Those aren't even languages.
People jumping in with "will the xp from bol be 511 or properly rounded to 510 as it should be" type of question have no place in server development forum.
Long unsubstantiated debates about future and features at this point are completely unwarranted, as well as all the "how do I", "will you add", "when will" type of questions.
Those boards, if they were to serve any development purpose, would be about threading issues, database performance and design, management tools, code organization, task organization, feature development monitoring and similar.
The SWG community has a severly distorted picture of what forums are intended for.
The emu forum mods are doing what needs to be done, but they are doing it in an extremly untactful manner. But why do people still need to make at least one post per day asking when it's coming out or what the progress is?
Look at this forum. How many times every week is there a triple post about something, because so many post without looking at first 3 topics. Same with those forums.
I personally would have created two forums. One, free for all, where people can talk among themselves. No mods, who cares. Then, the second one, which is invitation only, and is limited strictly to active developers about current features. This almost completely solves the problem of moderation, and only gross offenders can be banned as needed.
as in what they have fixed and some bug lists, i believe 1 bug list has been made, but not much effort has been put into it. And also i came across someone asking about a SWG E** early test, and his thread was locked ASAP. But yesterday i saw a few of those threads, and this person just wasnt on that day to see them. And the thread search button sucks, if you ever use it, you type in anything and end up getting the public discussion pages.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Wildcat84 Admins who play favorites will find their community will vanish.
People won't put up with that.
You really believe that? Look at how many people including those playing and running the EMU servers put up with years of crap from SOE. People will put up with it, considering they catch them in the act in the first place. If the Admin is the one cheating or playing favorites, who will you report it to, to have it investigated?
There is no competition for SWG right now. If you want to play a Star Wars MMO, you are stuck with SOE. WIth the EMU there will be competition between the servers to maintain a stable, good sized community,
Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Bissrok Wow... Why do you people need to be forced to play the emu?
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
Trying to make the devolpers of the emulation look good is a dying cause bud. Check out their forums, ask them some decent questions and you will quickly see your hero's in the same light as many others that have had bad experiences with them... and this is before they start running a server. Imagine their god complexes after they actually get one going...
IF they ever get one going.
I would rather put trust into someone who was able to create an EMU, than continue to palce faith into the devs / managment over at SOE / LEC. As it stands right now, and as much as you wan to diss the EMU people, they have more credibility than what SOE / LEC does. Stealing is stealing and lying is lying. Being rude is being rude. The EMU devs have stolen code, or are reproducing the code without SOE/LA's permission. If you can't admit to that, then you're truly lost and aren't worth reasoning with. But if you can admit it, then you have the EMU people who have stolen, which is just as bad as lying in most ethical peoples book. So in my opinion, I would trust SOE more, because at least they are legal and have not broken the law. Sure their customer service record isn't great, but from what I've seen from watching the SWG forums on their site, is that their customer service reps are communicating a lot with their customers now. On the EMU site, the Devs will ban you for asking questions. So I agree with Maxanto on this one.
Originally posted by Malickiebloo Originally posted by Rekrul
This is incorrect.
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
Packett sniffing is not stealing code?
No.
Period.
End of story.
Besides, the concepts used to build SWG are common to all database applications. Any current JavaEE developer could roll the databases and triggers needed to write it. The code is so transparent it's just pointless to argue about stealing, when you could have everything auto-generated from UML charts.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by Bissrok
Stealing is stealing and lying is lying. Being rude is being rude. The EMU devs have stolen code, or are reproducing the code without SOE/LA's permission. If you can't admit to that, then you're truly lost and aren't worth reasoning with. But if you can admit it, then you have the EMU people who have stolen, which is just as bad as lying in most ethical peoples book. So in my opinion, I would trust SOE more, because at least they are legal and have not broken the law. Sure their customer service record isn't great, but from what I've seen from watching the SWG forums on their site, is that their customer service reps are communicating a lot with their customers now. On the EMU site, the Devs will ban you for asking questions. So I agree with Maxanto on this one.
Uhm.. yeah.. Dont put words in my mouth.. My response was that of trusting the EMU people more than the SOE devs to get it right in the game...
As far as "stealing code" I think you need to go take a jaunt through Federal Fair Use Law, along with the DMCA, cross refernce those with court of appeal rulings, then come back and tell me whats legal and what is not.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Who cares? It will be free and with Pre-CU style gaming, leveling will be easy. So getting to a Double Elite Proffession level and getting the items and credits that you want will be simple.
The real challenege as I see it will be the Dev's manufacturing the code for the Crafted Items, Weapons, & Armour as well as the Looted Items and weapons.
Getting Kashyyk and Mustifar up and running will be simple since they have pulled off Naboo. But its the Stuff that everyone wants to have back (pets, swoops, Flash Speeder, AV's, At-ST's and all the rest) that will take the real work.
Then of course you have to hope that SOE/LEC's Legal teams don't swoop down and slap an IP (Intelectual Properties) lawsuit on them.
So Time will tell.
Doesn't matter to me really. I won't risk a perma ban in the SOE world. I will be busy playing STO.
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by Malickiebloo
Originally posted by Rekrul
This is incorrect.
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
Packett sniffing is not stealing code?
No.
Period.
End of story.
Besides, the concepts used to build SWG are common to all database applications. Any current JavaEE developer could roll the databases and triggers needed to write it. The code is so transparent it's just pointless to argue about stealing, when you could have everything auto-generated from UML charts.
Once again, it's not stealing.
Was a simple question
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
SW:G, including, without limitation, all SOE Communication Features, contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of The Game and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. SOE owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on The Game Files (including, without limitation, content that The Game enables you to download) without the express written permission of SOE and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from The Game is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that SOE and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on The Game, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.
Originally posted by hipiap One thing that should be mentioned....: *edit* Pulled From the EULA/TOS of SW:G *edit*
3. Intellectual Property
SW:G, including, without limitation, all SOE Communication Features, contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of The Game and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. SOE owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on The Game Files (including, without limitation, content that The Game enables you to download) without the express written permission of SOE and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from The Game is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that SOE and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on The Game, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by hipiap One thing that should be mentioned....: *edit* Pulled From the EULA/TOS of SW:G *edit*
3. Intellectual Property
SW:G, including, without limitation, all SOE Communication Features, contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of The Game and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. SOE owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on The Game Files (including, without limitation, content that The Game enables you to download) without the express written permission of SOE and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from The Game is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that SOE and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on The Game, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
Originally posted by hipiap Originally posted by Xcathdra Originally posted by hipiap One thing that should be mentioned....: *edit* Pulled From the EULA/TOS of SW:G *edit*
3. Intellectual Property
SW:G, including, without limitation, all SOE Communication Features, contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of The Game and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. SOE owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on The Game Files (including, without limitation, content that The Game enables you to download) without the express written permission of SOE and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from The Game is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that SOE and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on The Game, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
Lol.. I know what you mean about staying out of court on your days off... Anyways yeah its a coin toss... Depends on the mood of the judge that day I would guess... The 2 Federal Laws(Federal Fair Use Law and Digital Millenium Copyright Act -DMCA) are in conflict with each other, so applying them to this type of situation will be intresting... I would guess, precedent aside, if this goes to court we will be looking at refinement of the law, or entirely new case law all together for it...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
You cannot get sued for playing an emulator. By doing so you merely void EULA and the account it pertains to. Should SOE find out, they can terminate only the account.
The EULA in case of emulators has never held out in court, neither has DMCA.
In all cases where emulator projects were shutdown, were very brute violations of actual IP (changing and redistributing original artwork and other assets) or modifying the binary version of the client in any way (the blizzard and bnetd case).
As for code:
What many people fail to understand with software, is that it's a method. An algorithm is not covered by EULA, DMCA or patent law (exceptions exist, but not in this case).
Serialization, for example, is a method of transferring structured data through communication channel. SWG uses one particular type of serialization, applying a cryptographic and compression method to it. Both of those methods are in public domain, and the patent covering compression has expired (last april-june worldwide IIRC).
Any software engineer (graduate) must have proven in-depth understanding of both of these methods, both general, as well as these exact particular implementations. Hence, there's nothing to enforce or cover through any law.
Writing a book in chinese, and leaving it on the desk does not constitute a violation of any kind, if a random person learns its contents. A random passer-by will first need to learn the symbols, then the language, and finally read the book to learn its contents. Re-telling this story to someone else is also legal. Summarizing it as well. Translating it into english to some extent too. Repackaging it and selling or re-distributing it isn't.
With source code things get a bit different. Source code is transformed ambigously into machine code (symbols). Unambigous reverse process isn't possible, not without additional, particular knowledge or the original source itself (symbol tables, but it's irrelevant).
Hence, using the binary version to reconstruct the "function" of original source code isn't copyright violation. However, applying disasembler and using reverse engineered code (in reconstructed form) is. Since in that case you're using original work (albeit not sematically identical).
So far, the emu team hasn't violated any of those rules, with regard to any aspect.
Unfortunately, there's plenty of technical details, some requiring in-depth understanding of software (well, lawyers employ experts for that part) to determine the nature (if any) of violation.
But yes, you can still get sued. It's hassle, but following common rules and common sense, you shouldn't be made liable.
Another aspect to take into account is this.. Does SOE own the origional Pre CU code? or did that revert back to LEC once they made the CU and NGE? SOE keeps stating its impossible for them to revert back to the older code, and without a more in depth explanation of why, its possible it went back to LEC..
jsut a thought..
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars.. Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons... Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Originally posted by Xcathdra Another aspect to take into account is this.. Does SOE own the origional Pre CU code? or did that revert back to LEC once they made the CU and NGE? SOE keeps stating its impossible for them to revert back to the older code, and without a more in depth explanation of why, its possible it went back to LEC..
jsut a thought..
I posted my elaboration on this a while back:
LEC gave SOE the license for SWG. That is one game, fixed cost, fixed period of time (5 years?). During this time, SOE obliged to keep the game running, or face penalty for early termination.
SOE cannot bring back other versions, since they cannot run two different games under same license, and they can't revoke the new game from people who bought it. Regardless of how change is classified in EULA, that would be illegal, or if not, very costly.
The code is not unique. It's still the same code, with only minor (in terms of entire project) changes. There is no version 1 and version 2, where one could own either. It's a work in progress, and the progress cannot be timestamped. Changes are small and progressive, so there simply isn't anything to take away or make off-limits by either party.
SW:G, including, without limitation, all SOE Communication Features, contains copyrighted material, trademarks and other proprietary information including, without limitation, text, software, photographs, video, graphics, music and sound, and the entire contents of The Game and each area contained therein are copyrighted as a collective work under the United States copyright laws. SOE owns a copyright in the selection, coordination, arrangement and enhancement of such content. You may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content contained on The Game Files (including, without limitation, content that The Game enables you to download) without the express written permission of SOE and the copyright owner. In the event of any permitted copying, redistribution or publication of copyrighted material, no changes in or deletion of author attribution, trademark, legend or copyright notice shall be made. The downloading of copyrighted material from The Game is allowed by you only for your own use. You acknowledge that SOE and/or third-party content providers remain the owners of all materials posted on The Game, and that you do not acquire any of those ownership rights by downloading copyrighted materials.
An EULA is only a loosely-binding contract between the licensee of the game (us) and the company who made the game. NOT a law. At best it is a do-not-enter sign on a door.
The punishment if I violate the EULA? I get banned from SWG. Something I've already done myself.
It has as much power as Paris Hilton has talent.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Comments
1) Yeah, they could f**k with your guy, mod the game to hell and back, give their friends rare items, etc. So, look at the server before you join it. If they're offering rewards for donations, if they've made their friends moderators, if they talk like they're in an IM conversation, find a different server.
2) The kind of people that run WoW/RO private servers are not the same kind of people who'll run SWG servers. They're not looking for XP boosts or shortcuts through the gameplay. These people are vets who just want their game back, not kids looking to max their stats and run around with Jedi.
3) The people at the emu site are mean to stupid people. Yes, that's terrible. They don't like how every single person on the site felt the need to start a new post asking how to play. Well, guess what! They won't be running any servers. You'll never have to deal with them again. Also, surprisingly enough, they seem like very nice people when you're not asking how to play.
4) A lot of you people got so excited when a fake announcement went up with the word 'classic' in it. You think your emu character won't be safe but you're trying to play again on SOE's servers? WTF?
5) If, for some reason, your server goes down, most of the server admins I've talked to seem like very nice people. You might be able to get your character transferred to another server.
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IF they ever get one going.
IF they ever get one going.
I would rather put trust into someone who was able to create an EMU, than continue to palce faith into the devs / managment over at SOE / LEC. As it stands right now, and as much as you wan to diss the EMU people, they have more credibility than what SOE / LEC does.
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
I also do not trust SOE either. Like I have said before I won't play with these emulation devs any sooner than I would with SOE.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
What kind of updates do you want. They have no plan and no procedures, they probably never heard of management or had any kind of experience with it.
People offering help have little to offer. Most aren't even coders, those that are have done some HTML and PHP programming. Those aren't even languages.
People jumping in with "will the xp from bol be 511 or properly rounded to 510 as it should be" type of question have no place in server development forum.
Long unsubstantiated debates about future and features at this point are completely unwarranted, as well as all the "how do I", "will you add", "when will" type of questions.
Those boards, if they were to serve any development purpose, would be about threading issues, database performance and design, management tools, code organization, task organization, feature development monitoring and similar.
The SWG community has a severly distorted picture of what forums are intended for.
The emu forum mods are doing what needs to be done, but they are doing it in an extremly untactful manner.
But why do people still need to make at least one post per day asking when it's coming out or what the progress is?
Look at this forum. How many times every week is there a triple post about something, because so many post without looking at first 3 topics. Same with those forums.
I personally would have created two forums. One, free for all, where people can talk among themselves. No mods, who cares. Then, the second one, which is invitation only, and is limited strictly to active developers about current features. This almost completely solves the problem of moderation, and only gross offenders can be banned as needed.
But for account security, it will be different from server to server. Just search the server's website and see if its trustable or not. If it isn't just leave and find a new one.
I answer rehtorical questions.
What kind of updates do you want. They have no plan and no procedures, they probably never heard of management or had any kind of experience with it.
People offering help have little to offer. Most aren't even coders, those that are have done some HTML and PHP programming. Those aren't even languages.
People jumping in with "will the xp from bol be 511 or properly rounded to 510 as it should be" type of question have no place in server development forum.
Long unsubstantiated debates about future and features at this point are completely unwarranted, as well as all the "how do I", "will you add", "when will" type of questions.
Those boards, if they were to serve any development purpose, would be about threading issues, database performance and design, management tools, code organization, task organization, feature development monitoring and similar.
The SWG community has a severly distorted picture of what forums are intended for.
The emu forum mods are doing what needs to be done, but they are doing it in an extremly untactful manner.
But why do people still need to make at least one post per day asking when it's coming out or what the progress is?
Look at this forum. How many times every week is there a triple post about something, because so many post without looking at first 3 topics. Same with those forums.
I personally would have created two forums. One, free for all, where people can talk among themselves. No mods, who cares. Then, the second one, which is invitation only, and is limited strictly to active developers about current features. This almost completely solves the problem of moderation, and only gross offenders can be banned as needed.
as in what they have fixed and some bug lists, i believe 1 bug list has been made, but not much effort has been put into it. And also i came across someone asking about a SWG E** early test, and his thread was locked ASAP. But yesterday i saw a few of those threads, and this person just wasnt on that day to see them. And the thread search button sucks, if you ever use it, you type in anything and end up getting the public discussion pages.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
There is no competition for SWG right now. If you want to play a Star Wars MMO, you are stuck with SOE. WIth the EMU there will be competition between the servers to maintain a stable, good sized community,
IF they ever get one going.
I would rather put trust into someone who was able to create an EMU, than continue to palce faith into the devs / managment over at SOE / LEC. As it stands right now, and as much as you wan to diss the EMU people, they have more credibility than what SOE / LEC does.
Stealing is stealing and lying is lying. Being rude is being rude. The EMU devs have stolen code, or are reproducing the code without SOE/LA's permission. If you can't admit to that, then you're truly lost and aren't worth reasoning with. But if you can admit it, then you have the EMU people who have stolen, which is just as bad as lying in most ethical peoples book. So in my opinion, I would trust SOE more, because at least they are legal and have not broken the law. Sure their customer service record isn't great, but from what I've seen from watching the SWG forums on their site, is that their customer service reps are communicating a lot with their customers now. On the EMU site, the Devs will ban you for asking questions. So I agree with Maxanto on this one.
This is incorrect.
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
This is incorrect.
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
Packett sniffing is not stealing code?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
Packett sniffing is not stealing code?
No.
Period.
End of story.
Besides, the concepts used to build SWG are common to all database applications. Any current JavaEE developer could roll the databases and triggers needed to write it. The code is so transparent it's just pointless to argue about stealing, when you could have everything auto-generated from UML charts.
Once again, it's not stealing.
Stealing is stealing and lying is lying. Being rude is being rude. The EMU devs have stolen code, or are reproducing the code without SOE/LA's permission. If you can't admit to that, then you're truly lost and aren't worth reasoning with. But if you can admit it, then you have the EMU people who have stolen, which is just as bad as lying in most ethical peoples book. So in my opinion, I would trust SOE more, because at least they are legal and have not broken the law. Sure their customer service record isn't great, but from what I've seen from watching the SWG forums on their site, is that their customer service reps are communicating a lot with their customers now. On the EMU site, the Devs will ban you for asking questions. So I agree with Maxanto on this one.
Uhm.. yeah.. Dont put words in my mouth.. My response was that of trusting the EMU people more than the SOE devs to get it right in the game...
As far as "stealing code" I think you need to go take a jaunt through Federal Fair Use Law, along with the DMCA, cross refernce those with court of appeal rulings, then come back and tell me whats legal and what is not.
Xcathdra
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Who cares? It will be free and with Pre-CU style gaming, leveling will be easy. So getting to a Double Elite Proffession level and getting the items and credits that you want will be simple.
The real challenege as I see it will be the Dev's manufacturing the code for the Crafted Items, Weapons, & Armour as well as the Looted Items and weapons.
Getting Kashyyk and Mustifar up and running will be simple since they have pulled off Naboo. But its the Stuff that everyone wants to have back (pets, swoops, Flash Speeder, AV's, At-ST's and all the rest) that will take the real work.
Then of course you have to hope that SOE/LEC's Legal teams don't swoop down and slap an IP (Intelectual Properties) lawsuit on them.
So Time will tell.
Doesn't matter to me really. I won't risk a perma ban in the SOE world. I will be busy playing STO.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
They have not stolen code. They are not reproducing the code. Period.
Packett sniffing is not stealing code?
No.
Period.
End of story.
Besides, the concepts used to build SWG are common to all database applications. Any current JavaEE developer could roll the databases and triggers needed to write it. The code is so transparent it's just pointless to argue about stealing, when you could have everything auto-generated from UML charts.
Once again, it's not stealing.
Was a simple question
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One thing that should be mentioned....:
*edit*
Pulled From the EULA/TOS of SW:G
*edit*
3. Intellectual Property
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
pulled from what your rights are against a EULA / TOS:
http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
Lol.. I know what you mean about staying out of court on your days off... Anyways yeah its a coin toss... Depends on the mood of the judge that day I would guess... The 2 Federal Laws(Federal Fair Use Law and Digital Millenium Copyright Act -DMCA) are in conflict with each other, so applying them to this type of situation will be intresting... I would guess, precedent aside, if this goes to court we will be looking at refinement of the law, or entirely new case law all together for it...
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
Fasinating....I only ever studied Criminal Law...not Business. So it makes for interesting reading.
However....don't forget the part of that website that pointed out that some Courts have upheld the EULA/TOS lawsuits from Companies against the people that "broke" them.
It still seems like a coin toss to me, Legally. So, if you want to play an Emulator...good luck and enjoy.
Not me. I like my ability to stay out of court on my days off.
You cannot get sued for playing an emulator. By doing so you merely void EULA and the account it pertains to. Should SOE find out, they can terminate only the account.
The EULA in case of emulators has never held out in court, neither has DMCA.
In all cases where emulator projects were shutdown, were very brute violations of actual IP (changing and redistributing original artwork and other assets) or modifying the binary version of the client in any way (the blizzard and bnetd case).
As for code:
What many people fail to understand with software, is that it's a method. An algorithm is not covered by EULA, DMCA or patent law (exceptions exist, but not in this case).
Serialization, for example, is a method of transferring structured data through communication channel. SWG uses one particular type of serialization, applying a cryptographic and compression method to it. Both of those methods are in public domain, and the patent covering compression has expired (last april-june worldwide IIRC).
Any software engineer (graduate) must have proven in-depth understanding of both of these methods, both general, as well as these exact particular implementations. Hence, there's nothing to enforce or cover through any law.
Writing a book in chinese, and leaving it on the desk does not constitute a violation of any kind, if a random person learns its contents. A random passer-by will first need to learn the symbols, then the language, and finally read the book to learn its contents. Re-telling this story to someone else is also legal. Summarizing it as well. Translating it into english to some extent too. Repackaging it and selling or re-distributing it isn't.
With source code things get a bit different. Source code is transformed ambigously into machine code (symbols). Unambigous reverse process isn't possible, not without additional, particular knowledge or the original source itself (symbol tables, but it's irrelevant).
Hence, using the binary version to reconstruct the "function" of original source code isn't copyright violation. However, applying disasembler and using reverse engineered code (in reconstructed form) is. Since in that case you're using original work (albeit not sematically identical).
So far, the emu team hasn't violated any of those rules, with regard to any aspect.
Unfortunately, there's plenty of technical details, some requiring in-depth understanding of software (well, lawyers employ experts for that part) to determine the nature (if any) of violation.
But yes, you can still get sued. It's hassle, but following common rules and common sense, you shouldn't be made liable.
Another aspect to take into account is this.. Does SOE own the origional Pre CU code? or did that revert back to LEC once they made the CU and NGE? SOE keeps stating its impossible for them to revert back to the older code, and without a more in depth explanation of why, its possible it went back to LEC..
jsut a thought..
Having access to a billion $ IP - Billions of dollars..
Having access to a massive fan base of said IP - Even more Billons...
Singly handedly alienating them due to stupidity - Priceless.
LEC gave SOE the license for SWG. That is one game, fixed cost, fixed period of time (5 years?). During this time, SOE obliged to keep the game running, or face penalty for early termination.
SOE cannot bring back other versions, since they cannot run two different games under same license, and they can't revoke the new game from people who bought it. Regardless of how change is classified in EULA, that would be illegal, or if not, very costly.
The code is not unique. It's still the same code, with only minor (in terms of entire project) changes. There is no version 1 and version 2, where one could own either. It's a work in progress, and the progress cannot be timestamped. Changes are small and progressive, so there simply isn't anything to take away or make off-limits by either party.
Just my thoughts.
The punishment if I violate the EULA? I get banned from SWG. Something I've already done myself.
It has as much power as Paris Hilton has talent.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
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