Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik You could go Imperial and stir things up on that side Profession wise, no it's not a sandbox anymore. However there is still alot of sanboxy stuff left in the game, and Restuss is one of them. The situation you see on your server isn't always going to be the same you see on another server.
What in the HECK are you talking about? Restuss isn't "Sandbox"... Do you know what "Sandbox" means?
A sandbox-style video game (or a video game with an optional sandbox mode) is a video game with an open-ended and non-linear style of gameplay (since you're locked into a Profession, this does not apply), or a mode of gameplay within a game that is more often played in a goal-directed manner. The sandbox analogy is used to describe this style of gaming because, as with a physical sandbox, the user is simply allowed to do what he or she wishes (again, what game are you playing?)(with the available game elements and within the limitations of the game engine - the metaphoric toys within, and bounds of, the sandbox).
Seems to add up to me...you can choose to fight in the battles for the city, you can join the winning faction, you can stealth and take out vehicles/players for a few examples...
You're Clueless. You don't even READ what you post...
Your quote is talking about THE WHOLE GAME, not a city. Hey, look, my Kitchen sink is a Sandbox game! I can choose to do the dishes, or not! WOOT!!!
I can give more examples, such as being able to place a house nearly wherever you want and then decking it out however you want. You can use whatever objects you can get in the game and combine to make them into something completely different and unique. You can design your own city and lay it out however you like. Can go on...
I can give more examples, such as being able to place a house nearly wherever you want and then decking it out however you want. You can use whatever objects you can get in the game and combine to make them into something completely different and unique. You can design your own city and lay it out however you like. Can go on...
Please do... go on telling us about all of the systems the NGE hasn't destroyed... oh wait, it did destroy cities. Well, then, please elaborate on how Decorating & placing buildings makes this game a Sandbox Game... I mean, itsn't the SIMS a Sandbox game? It's not? Well.... Ok, you can walk around the planets... oh, you can do that in WoW.... ok, you can customize your ship.... oh wait, that makes AA a Sandbox game, and it's not.... Hmmm.... so what does make a Sandbox Game?
YOU CREATE YOUR OWN UNIQUE WAY THROUGH THE GAME. And that IS gone...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by Obraik Read the site I linked to...The Sims is listed as an example of a sandbox game, as is WoW
Well, then your site is wrong. The SIMS is darn close to Sanbox (it can definatly be argued, and the SIMS Online is Sandbox), but WoW is nothing like it.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Obraik Read the site I linked to...The Sims is listed as an example of a sandbox game, as is WoW
Well, then your site is wrong. The SIMS is darn close to Sanbox (it can definatly be argued, and the SIMS Online is Sandbox), but WoW is nothing like it. What's your definition of a sandbox and where's the cut off?
Guys. Let me tell you something. I played SWG since it came out. Before there were houses. Before there were vehicles. before there were jedi. And I'll tell you what. The summer i started i had the most fun with a game then i had ever had. Even better than EQ. Even better than all the other games before it. I got to play through everything. I saw the beginning of everything you guys might not have seen when you started. SWG is a great game. But now it WAS a great game. I played after the CD (combat downgrade). I tried to addapt to this new system. But i found that i didn't like the fact that i just got everything i worked for stripped away in a download. I dont believe that people liked it when it happened to them either. I know I didn't. And that is why i left. I left my mark in SWG through the friends i had there. Even if they stayed or not. But the one thing that the game HAD is now gone. All thats left is a cash box waiting to be filled. The game wasn't supposed to be easy. Thats not the point of any game. It's supposed to be enjoyable. And thats all I'm gonna say.
SWG used to be a sandbox, but they upgraded the sand into poop because the focus groups told them that's what the players wanted. Then they enhanced the box into a hole because that's what they thought would make them more money by attracting new customers.
So in plain terms you've gone from a sanbox to a ****hole. Did I leave anything out?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Daed710 No need to /rant Obraik I agree with ya on how what some people consider "griefing" others consider "battle", but I really wasnt referring to the GCW-centric PVP you speak of, thats great and Im all for it, and there should be a lot more of it in a game based on a giant galactic civil war imo. What I was really referring to was the attempts by some players in Restuss to, for lack of a better word, grief other players attempting to have fun there (fun being the gcw-ish fighting you described, or the mission/loots etc). Now Im not so foolish as to not expect my speeder to be destroyed if im SF in a battlefield, but Im talking more about the hidden spy groups that are blowing up peoples speeders but then not engaging the player in battle beyond that, attacking for the sole purpose of destroying their speeder, then running off probably thinking to themselves "teehee, thats the 100th speeder ive pwned, rawr im teh uberist!". Im all for a good battle, but when your doing that kinda thing it falls more into the griefing catagory in my book. Getting your bike blowen up due to a hidden spy isn't their fault and I wouldn't consider it griefing. Hiding is what spies do and if you're entering a PvP battleground you should expect that there are spies hiding out in the field. If they hide after blowing up your speeder, you can bring them out of hiding and you can damage them with AOE's while they're hidden. Who's to say this isn't GCW type stuff? Seems pretty smart to me that an opposing faction would set up stealth fighters to take out peoples speeders and prevent them from getting back in as quickly. This could lower the numbers inside the city so an attack force could have a better chance of invading and taking over. I agree hiding is what spies do, and that a good spy can be an asset to any nicely planned gcw battle, and that taking out speeders in certain gcw situations is considered tactical. But what Im talking about isnt really related to any desire to be a tactical genius, but more of a desire to just be a pain in the arse to other players trying to finish there missions or wotever. When your doing it in a cowardly manner, and just to be a hassle to the other player, speeder-killing becomes a form of griefing imo, others are free to disagree with that of course. When I talk about other players inside Restuss attempting to prevent players from completing missions or get loot etc, Im also not talking about a good gcw battle as you described, I also agree in a battleground you best expect to fight while youre in there and not be surprised when you end up dead. What Im talking about are the people doing things like using dead pet "meat-shields" to block the mission objectives, players "looting" the hilt mob to thwart others from getting one (fixed now i think?), and other things of that nature that also tend to fall more into the griefing catagory than the gcw one. If there's a pet in the way when you're trying to attack an NPC, run away from it. The NPC will follow you and then you can carry on with your attack. That and NPC's very rarely stay in the same spot. Yes, looting the Emperors Hand has been fixed and her corpse won't dissapear. I was talking more of the stationary objects people are trying to get at, that could end up with a meat-shield blocking em, corpses wont follow you for instance. I know Ive heard about instances of problems with meat-shields, but Im far too lazy to search out any posts about it, lol. And Im glad to hear the hilt drop mob was fixed, whoever thought that was a good way to distribute a highly anticipated loot drop was delusional, but looking at the apparent planning for the rest of the event, not too surprising. I think that the poorly planned nature of the base building missions, the bugs and exploits, the unfair "race" they created, and the fact that there was a "winner" and "loser" badge depending on that unfair race, ended up leaving a lot of players with a bitter taste in their mouth, and this has spilled over heavily into phase3 PVP imo. The "losing" faction is usually twice as bitter in this instance, and thus I think a lot of the attempts to prevent players from completing their missions and get the loot are almost revenge based rather than gcw based. Ive read many posts from players stating similar bitterness and cheesy attempts to block peoples Restuss goals. I agree there is a fine line between griefing and battle, but a lot of it depends on the intentions behind the participants, and Im only referring to those people whos intentions arent to participate in GCW, but rather cause problems for whoever they deem a target for their shenanigans, usually the opposite faction, especially on those servers where the subject of who "won" is a touchy one, lol. This is the first I've ever heard of people being bitter over winning or losing the event. Other then the badge, winning or losing didn't give you anything over the other faction and it doesn't change the outcome of the event. Again, blocking the opposing faction from achieving their goals in the city is part of the point of the whole thing. How do you differentiate from someone killing the opposite faction because they're bitter and another who's doing it for the GCW? They're doing the same thing and I can't see the difference. You want to stop the opposing faction from doing their quests at all costs, which is what both "groups" are doing. Well, speaking for Ahazi, the Rebels were extremely pissed that they had "lost" the event. Several threads on the subject were created, including one on how the rebels should make their own badge in their bios stating that they really won etc, and others stating how its ridiculous to have the Imps get the "win" badge when the Rebels so obviously are whooping up on the Imps in pvp etc etc, these threads ooze with bitterness over the outcome of the event. Other countless threads from people bitter over missing the main battle completely due to SOE not making it clear when the events would start, plus the threads from those that were bitter because they did attend the event and basically just froze in lag until eventually crashing. The unfair terms of the base building race, and then how that race determined who "won" the event, made many players bitter also, tons of posts on to that effect. You ask whats the difference between being bitter and gcw? In general I believe there is a very big difference in an action taken out of bitterness, versus an action based on the desire to have fun. Im a big believer in something you could call "bad joojoo", and when people are acting based on bitterness or anger or just plain being an asshole, it adds a bad vibe to the mix, maybe Im crazy, but it seems Restuss oozes bad vibes atm. I think a major flaw in the Restuss event (aside from the bugs, unfairness, and lagfest) is the fact that the new fotm loots are only really available by going into the PVP area, thus exposing yourself to the asshats I spoke of. I think it was very unwise for SOE to release new content and loots (in a game starving for new content) in a GCW/PVP-only area of the game. It shows in the fact that people are faction hopping to attain the new loots, if these players were going to Restuss for GCW/PVP they wouldnt be so quick to faction hop, they are going into Restuss for the loot in most cases, plain and simple, just look at the faction truces starting to pop up, lots of players want the loots in Restuss, not the forced PVP in Restuss. Everybody wants these new loots, and the race to get the loot is tainting a lot of the GCW imo, especially with the added bitterness of who "won" bleeding over into it. I think if the loots were also attainable by doing high level PVE missions out of the bases (ones that gave equivilant comendations to the enter-Restuss ones, and a hilt drop mob) then a lot of the cries of griefing you hate seeing would cease to exist. This is the first peice of PvP content ever put in the game, everything before has been PvE. PvP'ers were forced into PvE to get that stuff. They didn't have to get it, but they had no other option if they did want it. Why should PvE'ers that want stuff from PvP content get special treatment? If you could get the same amount of commendations from doing PvE stuff then Restuss really wouldn't be any different to going /pvp in Theed or Coronet. Nah, its just the only PVP content thats not broken or removed in some way atm, lol. We had GCW player dropped bases of course, and I agree with Rekrul when he says these were superior to any Restuss-like battlefield, they just meant more as players and guilds placed them and took pride in their defense and destruction etc. Then theres the old Jedi ranking system, with the enclaves etc, the fact that Jedi used to be forced into PVP with BHs when they got sloppy with the visiblity etc, all which could be considered PVP centered content. Then of course the old TEF system, faction scanners, and battlefields could also fall into PVP related content. And I never said PVE people should get special treatment, just equal treament, I just think they should offer equivilent high level missions that dont require people to go into the PVP area, as it appears that many people dont enjoy the current method of gaining the Restuss rewards. PVE players pay the same $15 a month as PVP players, why not let them have a method to gain the new fotm loots also? So I hope you see Im not one of the people you need to /rant about "complaining theyre being griefed in Restuss", I respect a good GCW battle, and Im not in the forums crying "whaa" all the time because I got ganked in Restuss etc. In fact, Im actually a crafter on my main, and dont bother going into the Restuss PVP area at all, as theres really no point, dying before I enter the 1st gate isnt my idea of content, lol, so Im basically screwed on that front (another great thing about the Restuss event, the crafter base missions were a joke and actually costed us credits to fufill our part, yet in the end we cant even go near Restuss to attempt to gain the main rewards of the event). Before somebody suggests I make a combat alt to be able to get into Restuss, lol, I already have a combat alt, BH, except he's still only lev 39 as I honestly got so sick of the new NGE combat system that I just plain stopped logging him in altogether a long time ago (imo at some points its kinda like Benny Hill made a Whack-a-Mole game or something). So since I dont PVP at all atm, Im not really a victim of any current griefing myself (even if Im the victim of my own Profession-choice denying me access to the event area), but rather Im just stating what my observations of the Restuss event are overall, the post-battle griefing going on being part of that. I /salute you, as it appears from what you stated youre not one of the griefers I spoke of, but rather somebody wanting to enjoy the gcw area for the fun of it, Im only sorry that SOE's poor planning in general regarding this event leads to so many opportunities for others to spread bad joojoo around the Restuss area, adding to the bitterness and further division amoungst an already splintered community. Keep in mind that alot of what I'm saying isn't soley directed at you Just curious though (not a flame), how are you observing the event if you're not in the PvP? Posts on the forum? Talking to people in game? Oh I know not all you said was directed at me but you quoted me and then when on to state how you hated people complaining about being griefed in Restuss etc, so I felt I had to respond and make my position a little more clear. And about your question of how I came to all these conclusions if I dont PVP atm and avoid Restuss....lets just say I wont question how you come about your Beer-Goggle vision of the NGE, if you wont question how I come about mine, deal? lol
My reply to the reply, in the Red text
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
Originally posted by Talalorm Guys. Let me tell you something. I played SWG since it came out. Before there were houses. Before there were vehicles. before there were jedi. And I'll tell you what. The summer i started i had the most fun with a game then i had ever had. Even better than EQ. Even better than all the other games before it. I got to play through everything. I saw the beginning of everything you guys might not have seen when you started. SWG is a great game. But now it WAS a great game. I played after the CD (combat downgrade). I tried to addapt to this new system. But i found that i didn't like the fact that i just got everything i worked for stripped away in a download. I dont believe that people liked it when it happened to them either. I know I didn't. And that is why i left. I left my mark in SWG through the friends i had there. Even if they stayed or not. But the one thing that the game HAD is now gone. All thats left is a cash box waiting to be filled. The game wasn't supposed to be easy. Thats not the point of any game. It's supposed to be enjoyable. And thats all I'm gonna say.
Tal...
Well said. I too was there at launch. There was a time when players ran to cities in groups, to avoid dieing. In those days, the game held onto the excitement, the danger, the massive feel. Now, it's a shell of what it was...
When NGE'er ask why I can't move on, I say it's simple: I invested years into this game, and had some of the best moments I have EVER had gaming. Just like Women, to get over a great one you have to find a great one. Until then, they haunt you... until then, I'll haunt these forums...
What happened to SWG was the same as having a Supermodel Girlfriend turn into an Escort (the CU), then a Crack Whore (the NGE)... you want to save her, but there's nothing you can do, so you just hope she can pull herself out of it... Would you go back to her? Probably not, but that doesn't mean you don't miss the times you had...
Here's hoping VSoH, Huxley, Fallen Earth & STO launch early....
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
Saying WOW is a sandbox is like me saying Counter-Strike is also a sandbox game....
I can jump if i want to ....but i wont. I could go for the headshot but I'll take his knee caps out instead. Shall I camp long, mid or B. Oh the choices.......fuck it I'll just run up middle with a pistol and some smoke grenades just because I can
Comments
LOLOLOL hhahahaha I just cried.....FFS Kitchen sink ....sandbox
Awsome...
Obraik dont take anything i say personal we just dont agree on alot of things when it comes to SOE and the NGE.
Can you make me a cool sig like yours..pretty please
Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbox_%28video_games%29:
Seems to add up to me...you can choose to fight in the battles for the city, you can join the winning faction, you can stealth and take out vehicles/players for a few examples...
You're Clueless. You don't even READ what you post...
Your quote is talking about THE WHOLE GAME, not a city. Hey, look, my Kitchen sink is a Sandbox game! I can choose to do the dishes, or not! WOOT!!!
I can give more examples, such as being able to place a house nearly wherever you want and then decking it out however you want. You can use whatever objects you can get in the game and combine to make them into something completely different and unique. You can design your own city and lay it out however you like. Can go on...
Please do... go on telling us about all of the systems the NGE hasn't destroyed... oh wait, it did destroy cities. Well, then, please elaborate on how Decorating & placing buildings makes this game a Sandbox Game... I mean, itsn't the SIMS a Sandbox game? It's not? Well.... Ok, you can walk around the planets... oh, you can do that in WoW.... ok, you can customize your ship.... oh wait, that makes AA a Sandbox game, and it's not.... Hmmm.... so what does make a Sandbox Game?
YOU CREATE YOUR OWN UNIQUE WAY THROUGH THE GAME. And that IS gone...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
WoW is not a sandbox game.
Neither is SWG.
Then the games industry is doomed. Along with us. We will never see another real Sandbox game again.
God Bless you all. I'm glad I experianced the Pre-CU enviroment. For it will never return.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
What's your definition of a sandbox and where's the cut off?
Guys. Let me tell you something. I played SWG since it came out. Before there were houses. Before there were vehicles. before there were jedi. And I'll tell you what. The summer i started i had the most fun with a game then i had ever had. Even better than EQ. Even better than all the other games before it. I got to play through everything. I saw the beginning of everything you guys might not have seen when you started. SWG is a great game. But now it WAS a great game. I played after the CD (combat downgrade). I tried to addapt to this new system. But i found that i didn't like the fact that i just got everything i worked for stripped away in a download. I dont believe that people liked it when it happened to them either. I know I didn't. And that is why i left. I left my mark in SWG through the friends i had there. Even if they stayed or not. But the one thing that the game HAD is now gone. All thats left is a cash box waiting to be filled. The game wasn't supposed to be easy. Thats not the point of any game. It's supposed to be enjoyable. And thats all I'm gonna say.
Tal...
Tal
SWG used to be a sandbox, but they upgraded the sand into poop because the focus groups told them that's what the players wanted. Then they enhanced the box into a hole because that's what they thought would make them more money by attracting new customers.
So in plain terms you've gone from a sanbox to a ****hole. Did I leave anything out?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
My reply to the reply, in the Red text
"Uh, we had a slight weapons malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now.
We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?"
Well said. I too was there at launch. There was a time when players ran to cities in groups, to avoid dieing. In those days, the game held onto the excitement, the danger, the massive feel. Now, it's a shell of what it was...
When NGE'er ask why I can't move on, I say it's simple: I invested years into this game, and had some of the best moments I have EVER had gaming. Just like Women, to get over a great one you have to find a great one. Until then, they haunt you... until then, I'll haunt these forums...
What happened to SWG was the same as having a Supermodel Girlfriend turn into an Escort (the CU), then a Crack Whore (the NGE)... you want to save her, but there's nothing you can do, so you just hope she can pull herself out of it... Would you go back to her? Probably not, but that doesn't mean you don't miss the times you had...
Here's hoping VSoH, Huxley, Fallen Earth & STO launch early....
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Saying WOW is a sandbox is like me saying Counter-Strike is also a sandbox game....
I can jump if i want to ....but i wont. I could go for the headshot but I'll take his knee caps out instead. Shall I camp long, mid or B. Oh the choices.......fuck it I'll just run up middle with a pistol and some smoke grenades just because I can