C'mon man, I'm just a regular guy with a wife and job like everyone else. I play maybe 5 hours of Eve per week if i get around to it at all (which at a representative estimate is about half the time you spend on watching make-believe stories on TV for example) and in no fucking way is it an extension of my manhood.
If you want to psychologise me, go study the damn subject before coming up with this crap ok ? I discuss stuff because I like discussing stuff, not because I fill a void of status or social standing with a make-believe substitute. I discuss stuff at work with colleagues because I like it, I discuss the merits of movies with friends because I like it, I discuss sprots with friends because I like it, and I post on different forums on different subjects because I like discussions. It's got more to do with maybe being somewhat smitten with the nuances of argumentation then with lacking self esteem that I'm trying to patch away.
BoB as a group of players plays this game for fun, just like everyone else. However, we choose to interact in such a way that it leaves room for however anyone else wants to enjoy his Eve with only one single exception: crossing the bounds of decent human behaviour.
Now, I'm quite sure you still haven't actually bothered to get yourself informed as to what it is exactly that gets us riled up enough to even care about this or quote it as reason for a war that doesn't even involve our preferred targets for warfare. If you had, you'd have gotten of off that high horse of yours by now and wouldn't be spouting the silly stuff you are now.
It's a simple and basic thing at work here. The goons (part of them at least) crossed lines one should not cross when any forum of human interaction is at work. I don't care that the world the interactions relate to is make-believe, and I really don't think that me and the other X hundred of regular joes with wives, jobs, kids, dogs, mortgages and normal lives in BoB or out of BoB are secretly disturbed social rejects that seek replacement for their manhood in an internet game, or that we are some kind of weirdly formed subculture of e-nerds with a really otherworldy e-set of e-morals. What I;m talking about is basic human decency, nothing else. Talking with another human being 101.
We play to have fun, they play to have fun. When people share a persistent gameworld to have fun in they (especially in Eve) need to interact, and thus form the world the other guy plays in with their actions.
In my book, that means you get to expect consideration when you show it. We show plenty of it, they show too little and actually go out of their way to make their interaction impact others as negatively as they can think of. The simple and logical effect is that we reject them as an influence on the gameworld in which our fun gets produced. The only reason people get worked up about what we choose to do is because they're afraid we can actually do it. While all the time doing it doesn't matter, what matters is giving it a try at the very least.
Nothing difficult about it, nothing severely shocking and as far as I can see from this thread the only guy with issues in seperating fact from fiction is yourself.
I hate to tell you this, but from my point of view Rod_B your comming off from the opposite end of the idealogical pole and are erradicating the Goons. And it is fairly obvious that you and BOB don't like them. In reality I don't care except for two important facts:
1: The fact that they have been hunted down. Face it, even Goonfleet can't defend their stations if they are fighting another war.
2: Every post I have seen from a BOB member has been focused on wanting the Goons gone.
Even you own posts on this forum at http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/88014 are full of comptempt. Even at the Eve Forum the hatred is on going and live 24/7. I don't know who your trying to fool, youself or everyone else. But it seems like to a lot of people that you just want to bash Goonswarm until they give up or quit.
Granted the Goons are flaming as well, but if BOB was so elite, why join in? Why stoop to their level? You have their stations, you've beaten their ships. BOB has all but won, yet it seems like the war will go on for a very long time. I think you do have some things that will need to be worked out before there will be a peace, or at least the end of the fighting war. One is the perception of BOB being the moral voice of EVE, the other one is that BOB does want Goonswarm gone.
Originally posted by Firebird1 I hate to tell you this, but from my point of view Rod_B your comming off from the opposite end of the idealogical pole and are erradicating the Goons. And it is fairly obvious that you and BOB don't like them. In reality I don't care except for two important facts:
1: The fact that they have been hunted down. Face it, even Goonfleet can't defend their stations if they are fighting another war.
2: Every post I have seen from a BOB member has been focused on wanting the Goons gone.
Even you own posts on this forum at http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/88014 are full of comptempt. Even at the Eve Forum the hatred is on going and live 24/7. I don't know who your trying to fool, youself or everyone else. But it seems like to a lot of people that you just want to bash Goonswarm until they give up or quit.
Granted the Goons are flaming as well, but if BOB was so elite, why join in? Why stoop to their level? You have their stations, you've beaten their ships. BOB has all but won, yet it seems like the war will go on for a very long time. I think you do have some things that will need to be worked out before there will be a peace, or at least the end of the fighting war. One is the perception of BOB being the moral voice of EVE, the other one is that BOB does want Goonswarm gone.
As I said, the dish isn't alway eaten as hot as it's served. It's about making the move more then it is about finsihing it, at least in my opinion.
However, you are right, in order for something to change in my intention to do whatever I need to purge at the very least the most irresponsible of the goons out of Eve, somethng will have to change. Idiots live in all groups, in BoB too. However, my limits dictate that you need to make sure that the people you associate with maintain a basic level of human decency.
Yesterday evening, more then a weel after this whole thign got going, I received an evemail from a goonfleet character with the following wording: "how's your stinky gay dead friend now eltitist bastard ?"
As long as peopel in goonfleet send mails like this, no matter if it's even one (which it isn't), they will remain on my shitlist. As long as they're a group of people in which many of people like the sender of the above seem to reside, they're staying at the top of that list.
Capiche ? there's nothing immoral about my stance. Not as far as I am concerned. In Eve, you simply have the chance to draw your own lines. When you do ahve that chance, you have to be prepared to use it if things get sufficiently out of hand. In my opinon, they have. And that's not taking things too seriously. I'm only spending maybe a fwe hours per week on this anyway, remember ? I'm not going to quit my day job to get back at someone that insulted me in a game ffs.
edit: also, you should read more BoB posts. Only a few times have we actually said we want them gone from Eve, and that was at start when things were at their worst and when insults way worse then what I quoted got hurled our way every other minute in local channels.
Secondly, we aren't hunting anyone down, yet. It's not been our choice to time this matter when they already were at war. And we're not going to let em use that as an excuse either. So far, there's hardly been any shooting. We kill loads of shuttles in S-U yeah, but thats irrelevant. What relevant is putting on the pressure, and that's what we'll be doing. We aren't harrassing individual goons, we're simply destroying whatever powerbase for their allaince we can. That's nothing but what we'd normally do in any war btw, so don't blindly stare at early-posted intentions of making them all quit.
Originally posted by Rod_B Originally posted by Firebird1 I hate to tell you this, but from my point of view Rod_B your comming off from the opposite end of the idealogical pole and are erradicating the Goons. And it is fairly obvious that you and BOB don't like them. In reality I don't care except for two important facts:
1: The fact that they have been hunted down. Face it, even Goonfleet can't defend their stations if they are fighting another war.
2: Every post I have seen from a BOB member has been focused on wanting the Goons gone.
Even you own posts on this forum at http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/88014 are full of comptempt. Even at the Eve Forum the hatred is on going and live 24/7. I don't know who your trying to fool, youself or everyone else. But it seems like to a lot of people that you just want to bash Goonswarm until they give up or quit.
Granted the Goons are flaming as well, but if BOB was so elite, why join in? Why stoop to their level? You have their stations, you've beaten their ships. BOB has all but won, yet it seems like the war will go on for a very long time. I think you do have some things that will need to be worked out before there will be a peace, or at least the end of the fighting war. One is the perception of BOB being the moral voice of EVE, the other one is that BOB does want Goonswarm gone.
As I said, the dish isn't alway eaten as hot as it's served. It's about making the move more then it is about finsihing it, at least in my opinion.
However, you are right, in order for something to change in my intention to do whatever I need to purge at the very least the most irresponsible of the goons out of Eve, somethng will have to change. Idiots live in all groups, in BoB too. However, my limits dictate that you need to make sure that the people you associate with maintain a basic level of human decency.
Yesterday evening, more then a weel after this whole thign got going, I received an evemail from a goonfleet character with the following wording: "how's your stinky gay dead friend now eltitist bastard ?"
As long as peopel in goonfleet send mails like this, no matter if it's even one (which it isn't), they will remain on my shitlist. As long as they're a group of people in which many of people like the sender of the above seem to reside, they're staying at the top of that list.
Capiche ? there's nothing immoral about my stance. Not as far as I am concerned. In Eve, you simply have the chance to draw your own lines. When you do ahve that chance, you have to be prepared to use it if things get sufficiently out of hand. In my opinon, they have. And that's not taking things too seriously. I'm only spending maybe a fwe hours per week on this anyway, remember ? I'm not going to quit my day job to get back at someone that insulted me in a game ffs.
edit: also, you should read more BoB posts. Only a few times have we actually said we want them gone from Eve, and that was at start when things were at their worst and when insults way worse then what I quoted got hurled our way every other minute in local channels.
Secondly, we aren't hunting anyone down, yet. It's not been our choice to time this matter when they already were at war. And we're not going to let em use that as an excuse either. So far, there's hardly been any shooting. We kill loads of shuttles in S-U yeah, but thats irrelevant. What relevant is putting on the pressure, and that's what we'll be doing. We aren't harrassing individual goons, we're simply destroying whatever powerbase for their allaince we can. That's nothing but what we'd normally do in any war btw, so don't blindly stare at early-posted intentions of making them all quit.
As for looking for the rest of BOB's posts, mind posting a link to a forum? I went to the Killboard and there was no link anywhere. I agree that I'm only reading 1/2 of the story, but where is the other half.
As for purging out anyone, what gives you the right to do that? It's a known fact that there are jerks in the world, and yet the Government has no intention of removing them from the general population. Strange that you suddenly have this moral feeling that you can remove some of them. Granted it's only in a game, but your never going to get rid of every jerk, idiot, and freek.
As for the war side of the war, Goonfleet has lost already from the start, and the shuttle rushes are proof that they knew it as well. This is not about BOB taking their space. It's more of an argument of how it was handled. And from what I've seen so far it's been a flame fest from both sides. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking the side of the Goons, but they are the underdog in the fight at the moment...
You cannot ERADICATE someone from the game OK? Mechanically its not possible.
You can destroy an alliance or a corp, you can camp their members, make sure they never get the resources to do anything. Thats what war is for.
But all it takes is pressing one little button, and a player is completely untouchable in a few thousand star systems, they get a nifty rookieship free as soon as they come out of the clone vat.
I never thought I'd be defending BoB considering I actually started this thread, but you two guys really need to get a grip. There are so many players out there with bad reputations, corp thieves, scammers, etc.
Istvaan Shogatsu is still flying around last I heard, he still logs into to the game after having ripped 36 billion isk, people have ripped off KIA, they've ripped off big corps with hundreds of members, Ginger Magician has made a career out of .4 gate ganking, if anybody has been able to exact revenge I haven't heard of it.
The truth is, in this game you can get away with anything, its just a matter of paying the piper.
Miriel was an escrow scammer and all-around dirtbag before the Guiding Hand heist, someone paid to get her back richly, yet she still plays, after losing a ship worth 2 billion isk.
This is not a game for people who take conflict personally.
Conflict just IS, its a constant, people kill you for any reason and no reason, if that upsets you then yeah go ahead and quit, because ultimately with that mindset you will be not be happy here.
NOW. The TOPIC of this thread is the Walmartification of Eve, or "BoB sucks talent from all the other alliances and leaves a stagnant game with little competiton."
I actually don't give two schits what happens to goonfleet, if they all start crying and quit the game, who gives a crap, but guess what, they're a 0.0 organization, which means they enjoy conflict, and honestly, if you don't enjoy conflict then wtf you doing in Eve to begin with?
Originally posted by fizzle322 Dammit Firebird and Beatnik
You cannot ERADICATE someone from the game OK? Mechanically its not possible.
You can destroy an alliance or a corp, you can camp their members, make sure they never get the resources to do anything. Thats what war is for.
But all it takes is pressing one little button, and a player is completely untouchable in a few thousand star systems, they get a nifty rookieship free as soon as they come out of the clone vat.
I never thought I'd be defending BoB considering I actually started this thread, but you two guys really need to get a grip. There are so many players out there with bad reputations, corp thieves, scammers, etc.
Istvaan Shogatsu is still flying around last I heard, he still logs into to the game after having ripped 36 billion isk, people have ripped off KIA, they've ripped off big corps with hundreds of members, Ginger Magician has made a career out of .4 gate ganking, if anybody has been able to exact revenge I haven't heard of it.
The truth is, in this game you can get away with anything, its just a matter of paying the piper.
Miriel was an escrow scammer and all-around dirtbag before the Guiding Hand heist, someone paid to get her back richly, yet she still plays, after losing a ship worth 2 billion isk.
This is not a game for people who take conflict personally.
Conflict just IS, its a constant, people kill you for any reason and no reason, if that upsets you then yeah go ahead and quit, because ultimately with that mindset you will be not be happy here.
NOW. The TOPIC of this thread is the Walmartification of Eve, or "BoB sucks talent from all the other alliances and leaves a stagnant game with little competiton."
I actually don't give two schits what happens to goonfleet, if they all start crying and quit the game, who gives a crap, but guess what, they're a 0.0 organization, which means they enjoy conflict, and honestly, if you don't enjoy conflict then wtf you doing in Eve to begin with?
EVE IS A PVP GAME.
That is all.
1) You can grief them out. You can make it so they can't do anything even in the protected space of empire. Sooner or later the target will either quit or find a way to fight just a dirty. Hence the fighting in Jita, and other Empire systems.
2) As for the scams they may of made people mad, but in no way did they force the target to quit. The target made that decision after the fact, and I bet many of thier victims are still playing the game.
3) As for the Walmartification of EVE then Why haven't all the alliences tried taking BOB on at once? Do they have the best because they are the best or because no one else cares? Face it BOB's pilots and tactics have proven superior again and again and again! Why hasn't anyone taken thier territory like I've seen happen with Goonswarm, TBB, and other alliences?
4) As for conflict, I agree, I'd like to be more active in it myself, but I'm only able to pilot T1 frigs and Crusers right now, so my options are limited at the moment. Meanwhile I agree that I really don't care about Goonswarm's fate, they can take care of that themselves.
Originally posted by Rod_B It's a simple and basic thing at work here. The goons (part of them at least) crossed lines one should not cross when any forum of human interaction is at work.
And what line is that exactly? Some guy made a tasteless joke over a year ago about some dead guy known only by his character name, but the delay of a year makes that a bit suspect as the cause, plus if it was really so distubing then it seems BoB would be more agitated at the people who keep repeating the joke. Then later some goon made a signature on another forum apparenlty intended to mock the people who keep bringing up the over-a-year-old joke, someome from BoB believed that it was mocking the dead guy, and in response the guy with the .sig apologized, plus the goon leaders apologized and kicked him from the guild. Bob's response to this turn of events was to say that the apology was not humble enough.
So as far as I can tell, the line the goons crossed was not bowing and scraping to Bob. The fact that you consistently don't say what they did, just vague bad-sounding things like 'crossed lines one should not cross' backs this up in my mind. If it was really about the over-a-year-ago joke, or the signature-that-got-the-guy-kicked, why not say that instead of the vague and overly dramatic stuff? I'm actually not entirely sure that you even know the cause; I get the impression that a lot of Bobers really only know that they 'crossed the line', they don't know what the actual crossing was.
EDIT: Reading back up, I saw that I missed this:
Yesterday evening, more then a weel after this whole thign got going, I received an evemail from a goonfleet character with the following wording: "how's your stinky gay dead friend now eltitist bastard ?"
There are two problems with this. For one, all it shows is that there's some jerks in amongst the 3k or whatever it is goonfleet members; did you tell any of the goon leadership to see thier response? You can't reasonably blame 'the goons' for what one member did if they don't know even know about it. Especially since they have kicked at least one person for similar actions.
The other problem is that the BoB DOW and declarations of how the goons had 'crossed the line' came before this incident of yours according to what you said. From what Bob has said that I've seen, they only 'crossed the line' by not being humble enough in their apology while they kicked the offensive .sig guy.
YES THE HATRED GROWS IN YOU..... YES DESTROY YOUR ENEMY!!! JEDI ARE WEAK LUKE!!! JOIN ME!! JOIN THE DARKSIDE!!
Personally I see this as a battle of ideology! In fact this reminds me of a certain war taking place in the middle east! Both sides at war, Both sides wanting peace at the cost of the other. I hope both the Goonies and BOB litterally wipe each other out. Would let other corps gain ground on them.
To the BOB players.. Your fundamentalist facist radical view of what EVE is, is DISTORTED! To the GOONIES!! Your Liberal, careless attitude except in the cause of your ideology is distorted as well! You both should be destroyed just because you both are full of hate towards each other!
So feel free!! GO at it, Dont quit!! Destroy every piece of equipment you have, spend every ISK you own! And then in the end you both may see what both of your problems are!
1) You can grief them out. You can make it so they can't do anything even in the protected space of empire. Sooner or later the target will either quit or find a way to fight just a dirty. Hence the fighting in Jita, and other Empire systems.
Quit corp and do missions, nobody can do schit to you.
2) As for the scams they may of made people mad, but in no way did they force the target to quit. The target made that decision after the fact, and I bet many of thier victims are still playing the game.
3) As for the Walmartification of EVE then Why haven't all the alliences tried taking BOB on at once?
Because anything above 300 people in a sector turns into a lagfest.
And because %99 of 0.0 alliances are carebears at heart.
4) As for conflict, I agree, I'd like to be more active in it myself, but I'm only able to pilot T1 frigs and Crusers right now, so my options are limited at the moment. Meanwhile I agree that I really don't care about Goonswarm's fate, they can take care of that themselves.
Start now while your clone is still cheap, its the best time to learn.
Later on your clone is gonna cost more than your cruiser.
The players can play and say whatever they choose. If they want to get pissy over the Goonies then let them. If they want to be low-sec scoundrels then let them. If they want to stay in high-sec and suck on a tit then let them. Getting pissed off over BoB is just one more reason to call them "powerful." They have the power to make you angry, fearful, blahzey-blah.
Fly your ship. Fight back. Win, lose, go back to what you were doing.
We can agree to disagree, or we can bicker constantly... either way, I'm right. SobaKai.com There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
Originally posted by fizzle322 BoB has contributed jack diddly squat to Eve.
You know the type. Trash talking, bullying, condescending, because we are the great BoB.
Some of their members were ore thieves and lowesec pirates, now all of a sudden they're "outraged" at Goonsquad's bad behavior.
If you ever see BoB members coming into your neighborhood, don't make the mistake of trying to be friendly, I've seen them come into lowsec space and just start killing randoms for no reason.
Yes, this is the great BoB everyone's so afraid of, the combat experts that take it to the edge, basically they are a band of 3 year old pirates getting their giggles at the expense of newer people.
Some of them are reputed to be employees of CCP. Class all the way.
Can't say I really disagree on the point of their character, but I can at least respect their capabilities. And until the Goons are completely wiped out, I'll not speak against anyone who helps destroy them. Goon=true griefer=dead to me
I remember when bob was just another pain in the ass ..but they kept at it worked hard on there tactics built themselves into a true powerhouse in eve ....a game ...got to hand it to them .I wouldn't quit eve because you don't like there politics .
EvE has been at war from the begging ..so whats different this time ?????
Read the whole thread. All I can say is that Rob_b is probably one of the best recruiting instruments Goonfleet ever had.
BoB is really coming accross as a heavy handed group of power freaks here.
I just cant follow Rob_b's logic at all, I mean, didnt we as a civil society quit holding the whole villiage responsible for one thiefs actions sometime back in the middle ages?
No matter what one, two, three or even dozen individuals in a whole group does it doesnt make the whole group responsible unless they publicly or through inaction endorse the actions of the few. It just doesnt, and that is as plain as the nose on your face.
Personal responsiblity, personal accountability, and personal volition are tenants of modern (western) societies, anonymity of an MMO does not abbrogate this.
From most accounts the individual Goonfleet members that were initially responsible were dealt with by corp level leadership.
BoB must respect that, if they dont then they should just go ahead and admit that they are going to war for the fun of it or simply to flex their collective muscle.
Of course that makes them little better than pirates or thugs.
By now though I suspect BoB has fostered a good deal of ill will which regardless of what happens in this war will cling to them like stink on a turd for the forseeable future.
hahahaah stink on a turd ..like that 1 ...but who really cares about bob ..and why should you care about bob ..there just a collection of people playing a GAME...
if they or any other corp/alliance wants to act like azzes ..bitching about it in a forum wont stop bob or the peeps in bob ..remember with out the associated protection of a powerful eidienty like bob most of the players that are azzes wouldn't act the way they do ..cause of the personal repercussions that could/might happen ..
there were evil empires before bob there will be evil empires after bob...
Oh... I thought 80% of the reason we play Eve was because of the drama... Never the less threads like these are fun on boring friday afternoons at work.
Originally posted by Gooney Oh... I thought 80% of the reason we play Eve was because of the drama... Never the less threads like these are fun on boring friday afternoons at work. -Gooney
man you make me laugh....made my boring friday.....
BoB are the biggest at the moment, perhaps Kali will bring them some options to develop the space they own. At this point it would be more of a challenge for them than slapping someone else and taking their space. Besides if you expand too far and something happens internaly they might implode making a horrible mess on the galactic map!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It is true that You can do a lot of different things in EVE, u can even be an agent for charity. I think that being on this list could start to be important People can be proud that they helped someone
Comments
What ?
C'mon man, I'm just a regular guy with a wife and job like everyone else. I play maybe 5 hours of Eve per week if i get around to it at all (which at a representative estimate is about half the time you spend on watching make-believe stories on TV for example) and in no fucking way is it an extension of my manhood.
If you want to psychologise me, go study the damn subject before coming up with this crap ok ? I discuss stuff because I like discussing stuff, not because I fill a void of status or social standing with a make-believe substitute. I discuss stuff at work with colleagues because I like it, I discuss the merits of movies with friends because I like it, I discuss sprots with friends because I like it, and I post on different forums on different subjects because I like discussions. It's got more to do with maybe being somewhat smitten with the nuances of argumentation then with lacking self esteem that I'm trying to patch away.
BoB as a group of players plays this game for fun, just like everyone else. However, we choose to interact in such a way that it leaves room for however anyone else wants to enjoy his Eve with only one single exception: crossing the bounds of decent human behaviour.
Now, I'm quite sure you still haven't actually bothered to get yourself informed as to what it is exactly that gets us riled up enough to even care about this or quote it as reason for a war that doesn't even involve our preferred targets for warfare. If you had, you'd have gotten of off that high horse of yours by now and wouldn't be spouting the silly stuff you are now.
It's a simple and basic thing at work here. The goons (part of them at least) crossed lines one should not cross when any forum of human interaction is at work. I don't care that the world the interactions relate to is make-believe, and I really don't think that me and the other X hundred of regular joes with wives, jobs, kids, dogs, mortgages and normal lives in BoB or out of BoB are secretly disturbed social rejects that seek replacement for their manhood in an internet game, or that we are some kind of weirdly formed subculture of e-nerds with a really otherworldy e-set of e-morals. What I;m talking about is basic human decency, nothing else. Talking with another human being 101.
We play to have fun, they play to have fun. When people share a persistent gameworld to have fun in they (especially in Eve) need to interact, and thus form the world the other guy plays in with their actions.
In my book, that means you get to expect consideration when you show it. We show plenty of it, they show too little and actually go out of their way to make their interaction impact others as negatively as they can think of. The simple and logical effect is that we reject them as an influence on the gameworld in which our fun gets produced. The only reason people get worked up about what we choose to do is because they're afraid we can actually do it. While all the time doing it doesn't matter, what matters is giving it a try at the very least.
Nothing difficult about it, nothing severely shocking and as far as I can see from this thread the only guy with issues in seperating fact from fiction is yourself.
I hate to tell you this, but from my point of view Rod_B your comming off from the opposite end of the idealogical pole and are erradicating the Goons. And it is fairly obvious that you and BOB don't like them. In reality I don't care except for two important facts:
1: The fact that they have been hunted down. Face it, even Goonfleet can't defend their stations if they are fighting another war.
2: Every post I have seen from a BOB member has been focused on wanting the Goons gone.
Even you own posts on this forum at http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/88014 are full of comptempt. Even at the Eve Forum the hatred is on going and live 24/7. I don't know who your trying to fool, youself or everyone else. But it seems like to a lot of people that you just want to bash Goonswarm until they give up or quit.
Granted the Goons are flaming as well, but if BOB was so elite, why join in? Why stoop to their level? You have their stations, you've beaten their ships. BOB has all but won, yet it seems like the war will go on for a very long time. I think you do have some things that will need to be worked out before there will be a peace, or at least the end of the fighting war. One is the perception of BOB being the moral voice of EVE, the other one is that BOB does want Goonswarm gone.
ARGH
pointless post.
BOB is teh suck.
As I said, the dish isn't alway eaten as hot as it's served. It's about making the move more then it is about finsihing it, at least in my opinion.
However, you are right, in order for something to change in my intention to do whatever I need to purge at the very least the most irresponsible of the goons out of Eve, somethng will have to change. Idiots live in all groups, in BoB too. However, my limits dictate that you need to make sure that the people you associate with maintain a basic level of human decency.
Yesterday evening, more then a weel after this whole thign got going, I received an evemail from a goonfleet character with the following wording: "how's your stinky gay dead friend now eltitist bastard ?"
As long as peopel in goonfleet send mails like this, no matter if it's even one (which it isn't), they will remain on my shitlist. As long as they're a group of people in which many of people like the sender of the above seem to reside, they're staying at the top of that list.
Capiche ? there's nothing immoral about my stance. Not as far as I am concerned. In Eve, you simply have the chance to draw your own lines. When you do ahve that chance, you have to be prepared to use it if things get sufficiently out of hand. In my opinon, they have. And that's not taking things too seriously. I'm only spending maybe a fwe hours per week on this anyway, remember ? I'm not going to quit my day job to get back at someone that insulted me in a game ffs.
edit: also, you should read more BoB posts. Only a few times have we actually said we want them gone from Eve, and that was at start when things were at their worst and when insults way worse then what I quoted got hurled our way every other minute in local channels.
Secondly, we aren't hunting anyone down, yet. It's not been our choice to time this matter when they already were at war. And we're not going to let em use that as an excuse either. So far, there's hardly been any shooting. We kill loads of shuttles in S-U yeah, but thats irrelevant. What relevant is putting on the pressure, and that's what we'll be doing. We aren't harrassing individual goons, we're simply destroying whatever powerbase for their allaince we can. That's nothing but what we'd normally do in any war btw, so don't blindly stare at early-posted intentions of making them all quit.
As I said, the dish isn't alway eaten as hot as it's served. It's about making the move more then it is about finsihing it, at least in my opinion.
However, you are right, in order for something to change in my intention to do whatever I need to purge at the very least the most irresponsible of the goons out of Eve, somethng will have to change. Idiots live in all groups, in BoB too. However, my limits dictate that you need to make sure that the people you associate with maintain a basic level of human decency.
Yesterday evening, more then a weel after this whole thign got going, I received an evemail from a goonfleet character with the following wording: "how's your stinky gay dead friend now eltitist bastard ?"
As long as peopel in goonfleet send mails like this, no matter if it's even one (which it isn't), they will remain on my shitlist. As long as they're a group of people in which many of people like the sender of the above seem to reside, they're staying at the top of that list.
Capiche ? there's nothing immoral about my stance. Not as far as I am concerned. In Eve, you simply have the chance to draw your own lines. When you do ahve that chance, you have to be prepared to use it if things get sufficiently out of hand. In my opinon, they have. And that's not taking things too seriously. I'm only spending maybe a fwe hours per week on this anyway, remember ? I'm not going to quit my day job to get back at someone that insulted me in a game ffs.
edit: also, you should read more BoB posts. Only a few times have we actually said we want them gone from Eve, and that was at start when things were at their worst and when insults way worse then what I quoted got hurled our way every other minute in local channels.
Secondly, we aren't hunting anyone down, yet. It's not been our choice to time this matter when they already were at war. And we're not going to let em use that as an excuse either. So far, there's hardly been any shooting. We kill loads of shuttles in S-U yeah, but thats irrelevant. What relevant is putting on the pressure, and that's what we'll be doing. We aren't harrassing individual goons, we're simply destroying whatever powerbase for their allaince we can. That's nothing but what we'd normally do in any war btw, so don't blindly stare at early-posted intentions of making them all quit.
As for looking for the rest of BOB's posts, mind posting a link to a forum? I went to the Killboard and there was no link anywhere. I agree that I'm only reading 1/2 of the story, but where is the other half.
As for purging out anyone, what gives you the right to do that? It's a known fact that there are jerks in the world, and yet the Government has no intention of removing them from the general population. Strange that you suddenly have this moral feeling that you can remove some of them. Granted it's only in a game, but your never going to get rid of every jerk, idiot, and freek.
As for the war side of the war, Goonfleet has lost already from the start, and the shuttle rushes are proof that they knew it as well. This is not about BOB taking their space. It's more of an argument of how it was handled. And from what I've seen so far it's been a flame fest from both sides. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking the side of the Goons, but they are the underdog in the fight at the moment...
You cannot ERADICATE someone from the game OK? Mechanically its not possible.
You can destroy an alliance or a corp, you can camp their members, make sure they never get the resources to do anything. Thats what war is for.
But all it takes is pressing one little button, and a player is completely untouchable in a few thousand star systems, they get a nifty rookieship free as soon as they come out of the clone vat.
I never thought I'd be defending BoB considering I actually started this thread, but you two guys really need to get a grip. There are so many players out there with bad reputations, corp thieves, scammers, etc.
Istvaan Shogatsu is still flying around last I heard, he still logs into to the game after having ripped 36 billion isk, people have ripped off KIA, they've ripped off big corps with hundreds of members, Ginger Magician has made a career out of .4 gate ganking, if anybody has been able to exact revenge I haven't heard of it.
The truth is, in this game you can get away with anything, its just a matter of paying the piper.
Miriel was an escrow scammer and all-around dirtbag before the Guiding Hand heist, someone paid to get her back richly, yet she still plays, after losing a ship worth 2 billion isk.
This is not a game for people who take conflict personally.
Conflict just IS, its a constant, people kill you for any reason and no reason, if that upsets you then yeah go ahead and quit, because ultimately with that mindset you will be not be happy here.
NOW. The TOPIC of this thread is the Walmartification of Eve, or "BoB sucks talent from all the other alliances and leaves a stagnant game with little competiton."
I actually don't give two schits what happens to goonfleet, if they all start crying and quit the game, who gives a crap, but guess what, they're a 0.0 organization, which means they enjoy conflict, and honestly, if you don't enjoy conflict then wtf you doing in Eve to begin with?
EVE IS A PVP GAME.
That is all.
2) As for the scams they may of made people mad, but in no way did they force the target to quit. The target made that decision after the fact, and I bet many of thier victims are still playing the game.
3) As for the Walmartification of EVE then Why haven't all the alliences tried taking BOB on at once? Do they have the best because they are the best or because no one else cares? Face it BOB's pilots and tactics have proven superior again and again and again! Why hasn't anyone taken thier territory like I've seen happen with Goonswarm, TBB, and other alliences?
4) As for conflict, I agree, I'd like to be more active in it myself, but I'm only able to pilot T1 frigs and Crusers right now, so my options are limited at the moment. Meanwhile I agree that I really don't care about Goonswarm's fate, they can take care of that themselves.
And what line is that exactly? Some guy made a tasteless joke over a year ago about some dead guy known only by his character name, but the delay of a year makes that a bit suspect as the cause, plus if it was really so distubing then it seems BoB would be more agitated at the people who keep repeating the joke. Then later some goon made a signature on another forum apparenlty intended to mock the people who keep bringing up the over-a-year-old joke, someome from BoB believed that it was mocking the dead guy, and in response the guy with the .sig apologized, plus the goon leaders apologized and kicked him from the guild. Bob's response to this turn of events was to say that the apology was not humble enough.
So as far as I can tell, the line the goons crossed was not bowing and scraping to Bob. The fact that you consistently don't say what they did, just vague bad-sounding things like 'crossed lines one should not cross' backs this up in my mind. If it was really about the over-a-year-ago joke, or the signature-that-got-the-guy-kicked, why not say that instead of the vague and overly dramatic stuff? I'm actually not entirely sure that you even know the cause; I get the impression that a lot of Bobers really only know that they 'crossed the line', they don't know what the actual crossing was.
EDIT: Reading back up, I saw that I missed this:
There are two problems with this. For one, all it shows is that there's some jerks in amongst the 3k or whatever it is goonfleet members; did you tell any of the goon leadership to see thier response? You can't reasonably blame 'the goons' for what one member did if they don't know even know about it. Especially since they have kicked at least one person for similar actions.
The other problem is that the BoB DOW and declarations of how the goons had 'crossed the line' came before this incident of yours according to what you said. From what Bob has said that I've seen, they only 'crossed the line' by not being humble enough in their apology while they kicked the offensive .sig guy.
YES THE HATRED GROWS IN YOU..... YES DESTROY YOUR ENEMY!!! JEDI ARE WEAK LUKE!!! JOIN ME!! JOIN THE DARKSIDE!!
Personally I see this as a battle of ideology! In fact this reminds me of a certain war taking place in the middle east! Both sides at war, Both sides wanting peace at the cost of the other. I hope both the Goonies and BOB litterally wipe each other out. Would let other corps gain ground on them.
To the BOB players.. Your fundamentalist facist radical view of what EVE is, is DISTORTED! To the GOONIES!! Your Liberal, careless attitude except in the cause of your ideology is distorted as well! You both should be destroyed just because you both are full of hate towards each other!
So feel free!! GO at it, Dont quit!! Destroy every piece of equipment you have, spend every ISK you own! And then in the end you both may see what both of your problems are!
even in the protected space of empire. Sooner or later the target will
either quit or find a way to fight just a dirty. Hence the fighting in
Jita, and other Empire systems.
Quit corp and do missions, nobody can do schit to you.
2) As for the scams they may of
made people mad, but in no way did they force the target to quit. The
target made that decision after the fact, and I bet many of thier
victims are still playing the game.
3) As for the Walmartification of EVE then Why haven't all the alliences tried taking BOB on at once?
Because anything above 300 people in a sector turns into a lagfest.
And because %99 of 0.0 alliances are carebears at heart.
4) As for
conflict, I agree, I'd like to be more active in it myself, but I'm
only able to pilot T1 frigs and Crusers right now, so my options are
limited at the moment. Meanwhile I agree that I really don't care
about Goonswarm's fate, they can take care of that themselves.
Start now while your clone is still cheap, its the best time to learn.
Later on your clone is gonna cost more than your cruiser.
A simple question...
Who gives a shit?
The players can play and say whatever they choose. If they want to get pissy over the Goonies then let them. If they want to be low-sec scoundrels then let them. If they want to stay in high-sec and suck on a tit then let them. Getting pissed off over BoB is just one more reason to call them "powerful." They have the power to make you angry, fearful, blahzey-blah.
Fly your ship. Fight back. Win, lose, go back to what you were doing.
SobaKai.com
There are two types of people in this world - people that suck... and me.
I remember when bob was just another pain in the ass ..but they kept at it worked hard on there tactics built themselves into a true powerhouse in eve ....a game ...got to hand it to them .I wouldn't quit eve because you don't like there politics .
EvE has been at war from the begging ..so whats different this time ?????
BoB is really coming accross as a heavy handed group of power freaks here.
I just cant follow Rob_b's logic at all, I mean, didnt we as a civil society quit holding the whole villiage responsible for one thiefs actions sometime back in the middle ages?
No matter what one, two, three or even dozen individuals in a whole group does it doesnt make the whole group responsible unless they publicly or through inaction endorse the actions of the few. It just doesnt, and that is as plain as the nose on your face.
Personal responsiblity, personal accountability, and personal volition are tenants of modern (western) societies, anonymity of an MMO does not abbrogate this.
From most accounts the individual Goonfleet members that were initially responsible were dealt with by corp level leadership.
BoB must respect that, if they dont then they should just go ahead and admit that they are going to war for the fun of it or simply to flex their collective muscle.
Of course that makes them little better than pirates or thugs.
By now though I suspect BoB has fostered a good deal of ill will which regardless of what happens in this war will cling to them like stink on a turd for the forseeable future.
-Gooney
hahahaah stink on a turd ..like that 1 ...but who really cares about bob ..and why should you care about bob ..there just a collection of people playing a GAME...
if they or any other corp/alliance wants to act like azzes ..bitching about it in a forum wont stop bob or the peeps in bob ..remember with out the associated protection of a powerful eidienty like bob most of the players that are azzes wouldn't act the way they do ..cause of the personal repercussions that could/might happen ..
there were evil empires before bob there will be evil empires after bob...
Oh... I thought 80% of the reason we play Eve was because of the drama... Never the less threads like these are fun on boring friday afternoons at work.
-Gooney
Ok, whose idea was this?
BOB sucks.
they corner the market, and destroy anything that may become a threat.
the very nature of their style of play hinders the evolution of the game.
I hope huge corps like BOB and goons all fall..
when you've got all the BPO's and unlimited income, nothing with that amount of power can anything good come from.
So this entire BS battle with bob is over sombodies personal opinon? LOL.
Let me guess sombody said somthing against Smoske? <--There was a true idiot that needed to be removed the humanities Gene pool.
People Die all the time, some are well known, some are not. The above only claim to fame was the first of the stupid kill boards for Eve-Online.
Bob has the power, they have more space, and more resources. Good luck in getting the game reset there BoB.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
What they HAVE contributed, is being a hard opponent to take down. Question is: Will they go down with style or whining?
The interesting thing is that the smart people in BoB will always come out on top, regardless. And thus keep contributing.
The original statement is bollocks.
look this
http://www.freeweb.siol.net/dbrda1/index/durex.html
It is true that You can do a lot of different things in EVE, u can even be an agent for charity. I think that being on this list could start to be important
People can be proud that they helped someone 
Live long and prosper