Pre-NGE the game had a lot more variety, including professions, skills, and even gamers (there are much less people that play now than when I used to)...
Introduced game with 32 professions, 250 skill points to be spent on any mix of the 32 professions you chose. Interdependency was built in so that the professions built on and supported each others attributes within the game. There was an Apprentice program wherein you needed to be trained by someone in an Elite Profession in order to move to the elite skills, promoting player interdependency and it was a good way to know the other players in your field so you could ask questions. You could change professions anytime by dropping skills to work on new ones.
Jump To Lightspeed brought space, but there was no connection between the live game and the ground game. This happened right when WOW was released as well, so many went into space and were seldom heard from, and others left for WOW. Beginning of disintegration of the game.
Combat Upgrade:
Brought levels to the game.
Removed Crafting from the Doctor and Combat Medic Professions. Their skill was given to Bioengineers. All of the crafted items already in existence for medical characters was turned to sheet. Even though it was promised they would be changed to comparable level items.
Changed the schematics and requirements for Armorsmiths to many specific types of resources that few if any Armorsmiths had. This essentially required all armorsmiths to start over from scratch. It was a long time before armors were available again. People whined about high armor prices and availability, leading later to loot dropped armor...
Rage of the Wookiees expansion introduced loot and quest weaponry that was superior to anything a weaponsmith could make.
Teras kasi, which was a great all around fighter was made to be largely a defensive fighter who was more easily defeated.
Questing of a new type was added to the game.
Protests from players whose characters, items and gameplay was terribly altered were brushed off. Many many people left the game.
Five months later, with two weeks of warning to players, the
Creature Handler (revamped in September 2005) removed.
Ranger (discussions of a revamp had begun) removed.
Bioenginner removed.
All other profession skills were put sort of, into the remaining categories.
You could not change professions until recently but had to delete your character and begin again. You can now buy a respec.
You cannot mix and match within the trader professions the types of skills. Weaponsmiths had their skills divided between Munitions trader and Engineer, so a weaponsmith can't make all weapons anymore. Master Artisan skills were given to Engineers alone though Architects need artisan experimentation to make items. Bioengineer components are still in the schematics for Tailors and Chef though Bioengineers are gone.
Despite nearly a year of utter disgust and downright hatred of this system by players, the game developers will not bring back the removed professions or their skills. They will not answer crafter concerns about the inability to gather creature resources or any other topic. They do not answer Entertainer questions. They do not answer Smuggler questions. The focus on the game has been on Jedi and Bounty Hunters. They are still working on those two professions and brushing everyone else off.
No matter how many people they make angry, no matter how many people leave, they will not budge or compromise. They will not open classic servers. They lack the ability to be honest about anything.
As I recall, this was in direct response to several posters on the SoE boards demonstrating through their combat logs that the devs were lying to the player base about damage mitigation. So, instead of just telling the players the truth about what was happening, they removed the ability to track damage in combat. And they blamed it on "too much spam in the chat window" or somthing equally as stupid.
Originally posted by Rekrul The game used to be golf.
Then they told everyone to piss off.
And they changed it into hockey.
You just insulted hockey my GOD MAN!
Let's try this again..
It used to be Golf, they turned it into Tic Tac Toe.. or any easy,simple minded game you can imagine.
My advice to the OP is go read... look it up in Google, search the press, the reviews, the awards... then go to the boards of SWG... go look there.
You will find so many things that you just won't believe that it is to hard to begin to explain it.
There is hundreds of reasons for alot of us, mostly stemming from ALOT OF LIES from the Dev team.. in short, so many things are broke and have been changed to cover up some of the mistakes that I do not think even we know just how many things have been fucked up now.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by ryanmarshall So I have no idea but would be interested in knowing what they did that is so bad.
Simple really, a day after the offical release of the last expansion they announced that they were destroying the skill tree mix up to 2.5 professions and changing it into 9 cookie cutter level classes. They annouced they were changing the game from being a player crafter created economy to being a loot grind economy and they admited that the starter kit listed on amazon and other shops that they had been denying as a real product was actuelly real and while only the base game that added nothing to your game would come with an exclusive item that would instatly teleport you to the starport.
They basicaly changed the games design 180 degrees to the complete opposite in MMO design just after alot of people had bought an expansion for the old game and in the conversion process over managed to turn alot of the items that people had been collecting and struggling for in the game over the last two years completely useless.
My number one issue with swg was soe's total disregard for their current players. They wanted to trade us in for a new playerbase.
When the CU came out, I realized I couldnt support SOE ever again, because they had promised us a combat revamp that would fix the game's problems, and instead they scrapped it and gave us the CU. It was blatently obvious soe' didnt think commiting the resources and time into fixing pre-cu was worth it, so instead they stuck a level on everything, put in some shiny new particle effects, and gave us an "innovative, new" system with cooldowns and warmups. HOW ORIGINAL. Ive only seen that system in every mmo ever made.
The cu failed in every aspect it set out to accomplish and it pissed me off that my opinion in the matter wasn't asked for. Sure, they "asked" for our opinions, but if they had listened the "CU" would have never happened. I couldnt believe that I, who had invested hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into their product, did not matter.
The nge made me laugh. It was the next logical step. Anyone who was shocked that they'd put out the nge in such a way did not pay much attention to how the CU was implemented.
Originally posted by LilT My number one issue with swg was soe's total disregard for their current players. They wanted to trade us in for a new playerbase.
When the CU came out, I realized I couldnt support SOE ever again, because they had promised us a combat revamp that would fix the game's problems, and instead they scrapped it and gave us the CU.
The only way I will be able to play on SOE hosted pre-CU servers (should they ever happen) is to convince myself I am using them for my needs. That, and realizing the dream of telling them "Piss on you! We were right. Now kiss my ass." I can only hope for that day.
Then again, it might be sweeter to ask for pre-CU then never play it if they release it. Hmmm....
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever
Comments
Variety is the spice of life and Spice is LIFE!
mmmm spice!
In the shell of a nut (Obraik
)
Introduced game with 32 professions, 250 skill points to be spent on any mix of the 32 professions you chose. Interdependency was built in so that the professions built on and supported each others attributes within the game. There was an Apprentice program wherein you needed to be trained by someone in an Elite Profession in order to move to the elite skills, promoting player interdependency and it was a good way to know the other players in your field so you could ask questions. You could change professions anytime by dropping skills to work on new ones.
Starting Professions:
Artisan, Brawler, Entertainer, Marksman, Medic, Scout
Elite Professions:
Architect, Armorsmith, Carbineer, Chef, Creature Handler, Dancer, Doctor, Droid Engineer, Fencer, Merchant, Musician, Pikeman, Pistoleer, Ranger, Rifleman, Tailor, Teras Kasi, Swordsman, Weaponsmith, Image Designer, Bioengineer, Bounty Hunter, Combat Medic, Commando, Smuggler, Squad Leader
Jump To Lightspeed brought space, but there was no connection between the live game and the ground game. This happened right when WOW was released as well, so many went into space and were seldom heard from, and others left for WOW. Beginning of disintegration of the game.
Combat Upgrade:
Brought levels to the game.
Removed Crafting from the Doctor and Combat Medic Professions. Their skill was given to Bioengineers. All of the crafted items already in existence for medical characters was turned to sheet. Even though it was promised they would be changed to comparable level items.
Changed the schematics and requirements for Armorsmiths to many specific types of resources that few if any Armorsmiths had. This essentially required all armorsmiths to start over from scratch. It was a long time before armors were available again. People whined about high armor prices and availability, leading later to loot dropped armor...
Rage of the Wookiees expansion introduced loot and quest weaponry that was superior to anything a weaponsmith could make.
Teras kasi, which was a great all around fighter was made to be largely a defensive fighter who was more easily defeated.
Questing of a new type was added to the game.
Protests from players whose characters, items and gameplay was terribly altered were brushed off. Many many people left the game.
Five months later, with two weeks of warning to players, the
New Game Experience
Nine Professions Jedi, Bounty Hunter, Commando, Officer, Trader, Entertainer, Spy, Smuggler, Medic
Creature Handler (revamped in September 2005) removed.
Ranger (discussions of a revamp had begun) removed.
Bioenginner removed.
All other profession skills were put sort of, into the remaining categories.
You could not change professions until recently but had to delete your character and begin again. You can now buy a respec.
You cannot mix and match within the trader professions the types of skills. Weaponsmiths had their skills divided between Munitions trader and Engineer, so a weaponsmith can't make all weapons anymore. Master Artisan skills were given to Engineers alone though Architects need artisan experimentation to make items. Bioengineer components are still in the schematics for Tailors and Chef though Bioengineers are gone.
Despite nearly a year of utter disgust and downright hatred of this system by players, the game developers will not bring back the removed professions or their skills. They will not answer crafter concerns about the inability to gather creature resources or any other topic. They do not answer Entertainer questions. They do not answer Smuggler questions. The focus on the game has been on Jedi and Bounty Hunters. They are still working on those two professions and brushing everyone else off.
No matter how many people they make angry, no matter how many people leave, they will not budge or compromise. They will not open classic servers. They lack the ability to be honest about anything.
Thats it in a nutshell.
Cheers
As I recall, this was in direct response to several posters on the SoE boards demonstrating through their combat logs that the devs were lying to the player base about damage mitigation. So, instead of just telling the players the truth about what was happening, they removed the ability to track damage in combat. And they blamed it on "too much spam in the chat window" or somthing equally as stupid.
It's a prime example of the SoE mentality.
You just insulted hockey my GOD MAN!
Let's try this again..
It used to be Golf, they turned it into Tic Tac Toe.. or any easy,simple minded game you can imagine.
My advice to the OP is go read... look it up in Google, search the press, the reviews, the awards... then go to the boards of SWG... go look there.
You will find so many things that you just won't believe that it is to hard to begin to explain it.
There is hundreds of reasons for alot of us, mostly stemming from ALOT OF LIES from the Dev team.. in short, so many things are broke and have been changed to cover up some of the mistakes that I do not think even we know just how many things have been fucked up now.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
They basicaly changed the games design 180 degrees to the complete opposite in MMO design just after alot of people had bought an expansion for the old game and in the conversion process over managed to turn alot of the items that people had been collecting and struggling for in the game over the last two years completely useless.
There are dozen if not hundreds of changes that have upset the majority of the playerbase, but two outshine the others IMHO:
1.) $OE has twice removed the community we had worked so hard to build.
2.) $OE has demonstrated a complete disregard if not malevolent antipathy for the wishes/desires of their existing playerbase since launch.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
My number one issue with swg was soe's total disregard for their current players. They wanted to trade us in for a new playerbase.
When the CU came out, I realized I couldnt support SOE ever again, because they had promised us a combat revamp that would fix the game's problems, and instead they scrapped it and gave us the CU. It was blatently obvious soe' didnt think commiting the resources and time into fixing pre-cu was worth it, so instead they stuck a level on everything, put in some shiny new particle effects, and gave us an "innovative, new" system with cooldowns and warmups. HOW ORIGINAL. Ive only seen that system in every mmo ever made.
The cu failed in every aspect it set out to accomplish and it pissed me off that my opinion in the matter wasn't asked for. Sure, they "asked" for our opinions, but if they had listened the "CU" would have never happened. I couldnt believe that I, who had invested hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into their product, did not matter.
The nge made me laugh. It was the next logical step. Anyone who was shocked that they'd put out the nge in such a way did not pay much attention to how the CU was implemented.
For the Horde!
The only way I will be able to play on SOE hosted pre-CU servers (should they ever happen) is to convince myself I am using them for my needs. That, and realizing the dream of telling them "Piss on you! We were right. Now kiss my ass." I can only hope for that day.
Then again, it might be sweeter to ask for pre-CU then never play it if they release it. Hmmm....
I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever