Originally posted by LordCaptain lol. I don't know. I think LA has been in the gaming industry to at least understand ALITTLE about it :P On a side note, I can't belive he reads Wheel of Time. When he first mentioned it two things went through my head: 1st: A Wheel of Time MMO! Finally. This is what I have been waiting for for 7 years of playing WoTMUD. 2nd: SoE? Why does it have toi be SoE? Anyways, It's not happening. And I will have to agree with Smed. Get well soon Jim Rigney...
I know what you mean, I saw that a month or so ago and my respect for Smedley went up. He can't be totally evil if he likes Wheel of Time.
Add my thoughts and prayers to the growing list of supporters, Mr. Rigney.
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by dookseid Let me just interject as kind of an outsider. I played the game from July of '03 to March of '06. The plain and simple fact is that it became a game I no longer recognized and was not fun anymore in the slightest. The game was run by two companies as I see it. Both are equally responsible in my eyes I don't care what symantics are wrapped around it by the forums. The game I liked was replaced by a greatly inferior model. (Kinda like when Ford replaced the Mustang with the Mustang II. UGGH!!)
I don't really care who is responsible, Until it is fixed, neither of them profit from my coin with the venture! Case closed!!
Well said... I agree as well with you too.
Now the finger pointing has began
Ditto! Course I have been thinking of trying it out again now that auto fire and target lock are back... I must meditate and pray to the gods of CCP to give me strength not to!
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Sago
So $OE is having problems with $LA?????(Sigil?????) It is MORE than likely the OTHER way around. $OE doesn't have a clue about anything. When I think of $OE I think of the old animated Christmas story"Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer". You know ... the land of the misfits. There is a reason $LA put handcuffs on the misfits from $OE ... they just can't seem to do ANYTHING right. I mean afterall, it is the "Star Wars" name $OE is dragging thru the mud. Just the name itself ("Star Wars") should command a huge following. Now, 3 years later, Galaxies is headed for a MAJOR meltdown as Nov 15th, 2006 gets closer and closer. It appears that $OE in particular Smedley, is saying $LA (and Sigil) does not understand the online gaming market. (As Smedley says, "With the exception of DC Comics") I submit that it is the reverse. It is Smedley and his misfit Devs and Designers that do not understand the online gaming market. How is it possible for anyone that "supposedly" KNOWS what they are doing to take a game bearing the "Star Wars" title from having 350,00 to as many as 500,000 accounts down to its current level between 30,000 and 50,000 accounts? It sure as hell isn't because they are doing things right. And as Nov 15, 2006 gets closer that number will go down further.
I hate to break this to you but your assumption is false. SOE is not DEVELOPING Vanguard. Sigil is. SOE is merely publishing it for them. He's talking about Developing titles for a 3rd party IP. (SWG) Sigil doesn't enter into this discussion *at all* because SOE is merely publishing the Vanguard PRODUCT for Sigil. Sigil is doing all the development.
You can hate on SOE all you want but you're deliberately missinterpreting what he's saying. I personaly am not a huge fan of SOE but everything Smed said is 100% true and it's exactly what several of us who work within/around the industry have been telling folks here for years now. The problems with SWG are unique to SWG because SWG is the only SOE title currently in production that is a 3rd party IP. The DC comics title will be their only other title that they are developing under a 3rd party IP. Vanguard, while a 3rd party holds the IP is also being developed and supported by that 3rd party. SOE will have no design input into the game so it falls outside the discussion.
No I think if you pay attention to the facts it's quite clear that he's very fed up with the situation between LEC and SOE and is tired of taking 100% of the heat for mixups caused by changes in direction dictated by a 3rd party (LEC).
Oh, and, by the way: SWG only ever had 300,000 accounts, not 500k. The only time that 500k was 'reported' was when LEC made the announcement which included trial accounts, not paying subscribers.
Sigil owns, operates, supports and develops Vanguard. SOE is going to be handling: Distribution & Billing of the game, I suspect they'll also be heavily involved in Promoting the game. None of those 3 roles involve Development. Sigil builds the game. SOE just gives you the means to pay for it.
As to your mention of the 'four different systems' in SWG that's exactly what smedly was talking about when he said that dealing with a 3rd Party IP that doesn't have the same direction causes problems. Do you HONESTLY think SOE wanted to change the combat system 4 times? They were told to make it easier, simpler to learn, etc. By the IP Holder. So they did. I fault SOE for many things. But core changes to the game are directed by the Producer, not the Developer, typically.
I do not dissagree with your statement. I am in the IT side of things, Admin and project guy... My cousin however is a Lead proggy guy from Ravensoft -- aka the Lead Prog man for Jedi Outcast, Jedi Acadmey .. Now, not to catch Hell here for mentioning to much but I can tell you that this mess between the two now is well known obviously... Comments that I have heard from more then one person in the industry have been unreal actually.
Smedley is tired of this... sooner or later the emails wear you down, the comments, reviews and bad awards bother you. Sooner or later anger will take effect, I DO HOLD SOE responsible, Helios is not the person to have in charge.. by far his is not a Leader. He is more of a Gastopo if you ask me.
SWG is done, I really feel that way.. it is struggling to stay afloat right now , it really is considering you have one of if NOT the biggest franchise for media out there and you cannot deliver a good product somthing is wrong.
At least I HAVE TO THINK that at this point Smedley will fess up and admit he made a mistake, I think in a way this blog is just that start IF NOT THE ACT there of.
He is trying to stay positive about it.. but I can see he is wearing thin... and I must say I am glad.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Man I wish I could post on the SWG forums still instead of just reading them...I'm amazed that not only is the thread still unlocked but that Brenlo actually replied to it! Here's what he said:
"First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed.
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Brenlo Bixiebopper Director, Global Community Relations - SOE"
I'd love to reply to that saying they faild on more then just timing and communication...they failed to deliver a viable product! Not only that but in hind sight failed to deliver a product that even had a chance of working, which is why now we are seeing a gradual return to a system similar to that of pre-NGE. Sure they are calling it different things but it boils down to being essentially the same thing just in a new wrapper. Look at the combat system now...both an FPS and a RPG style combat system...but when you factor in the announcement made at the summit that they will NOT be implementing collision detection it makes me suspect this dual combat system is just a stepping stone to getting rid of the FPS system.
So thanks Brenlo for the appology...but if you think that's all you failed in your fooling yourself.
LordCaptain wrote Point of Fact: LEC has been in the gaming industry long enough to know something about it. And the fact that they haven't done an MMO before only points more to the fact that SOE screwed over Galaxies. LEC gave it over to SOE to make and implement with LEC overseeing their IP. SOE made the game, SOE implmented the game, SOE messed over the game. LEC isn't happy about it. I also find it suspicious that SOE only did this to one of their games. Does it point to LEC behind it? No. It points to the fact the Galaxies was the most "Out-there" MMO they had. It was the most diffrent and it needed to be brought in and made "Better" because that was obviously why it was failing...
I dont quite understand the logic in the first statement, why does the fact LEC hasnt done an MMO before point to SOW screwing over galaxies ? LEC did give it to SOE to make, but the Rage of the Wookies expansion and the Trials of Obi-wan were definately tie-ins initiated by LEC, LEC definately had to finalise any changes to the game - remember the Jedi Village ? that had to be approved by LEC before implementation, so did the Death Watch Bunker before that. This proves that LEC definately had a control over all aspects of the game. Lucas and his companies have always controlled EVERY aspect of tar Wars thats why its made them so much money. SOE actually has done a combat rebalance to Matriz as well havent they ? and there has been changes to EQ2 as well as far as im aware ?
Approving content and approving changes to the system are diffrent things. I honestly don't think LEC knew what the NGE was going to do to the fluff of the game.
Also, if SOE HAS done this to other games, then I think that suggests that SOE is behind the CU and NGE.
I really can't see how people keep blaming LEC for the NGE. Do you really think LEC made SOE work on the NGE, slave away doing that, not fixing the game then LEC FORCED SOE to put it live on the servers while SMed was saying: "No! That will kill our subscriptions! You know nothing about MMOs!"
Bottom line you do NOT EVER EVEREVERchange a game right out from under your PAYING playerbase. SWG was 4 years in developement before released. It is during those development years the game is designed. Once release, the people incharge should have just stayed on course. Add content and expansions yes .... fix stuff that is broken, yes. But to nail your playerbase with a CU and then 6 months later, destroy what was left of the game with the NGE was as wrong as wrong can get.
It may not have been complete ... it may not have been perfect ... it may have had stuff that didn't work or didn't work right .... but with all the problems it was STILL the BEST MMO on the market. And if preCU or even CU for that matter was still on live servers it would STILL be the best MMO out there. Regardless of WoW and all their servers in China.
Who knows ... maybe if $OE put any money into advertising and opened up some Japan (and kept them up) and China servers ... SWG would have been bigger than WoW. Tho maybe not since Blizzard had a built in playerbase from World of Warcraft and Diablo.
I took my last course last week to get my MCSA. In my class sitting right next to me was someone that played WoW. Her and her husband has been playing it for 2 years. We got into a discussion one time during a break and I told her all the stuff SWG used to have in the game. She was in awe. She was very impressed with the mix and match of 32 professions and the crafting system including having your own vendors. WoW doesnt have that stuff. She thought it was a shame that $OE/$LA did what they did. She also said if she had heard about SWG (before the NGE) she and her husband would have played SWG.
$OE knows they f'ed up, but they will not do the right thing and make Classic servers available because they are too stuck on themselves. What a shame.
Smedley has made these comments probably due to stress and anger of taking the brunt of all this public critisism. Maybe partly due to the frustration of dealing with LEC. But he should have known what he was saying and that someone ... somewhere would see it and then repeat it. there is no doubt that his statements will have repercussions with LEC.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by iskareot (UPDATE TO THIS POST) - 2:30cst Thursday-- I must say this here as I am pretty ticked off.. I have gotton some PMs from people thinking (NO JOKE) that I made this up and THAT that site is fake.. Not only that, but that I should NOT STIR UP TROUBE LIKE THIS??????? W T F ??? Listen to those few that PMd me mad because they are in denial of this foreseen mess you can more or less fuck off. Normally I would not just say that... but you know what... You guys need to READ and make sure you know what your talking about before you think you can accuse me of crap like that. In case you have not learned, facts are the best ammo to use..because this thing is so messed up that none of us have to make up lies of how bad this is. Good day... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Approving content and approving changes to the system are diffrent things. I honestly don't think LEC knew what the NGE was going to do to the fluff of the game.
Also, if SOE HAS done this to other games, then I think that suggests that SOE is behind the CU and NGE.
I really can't see how people keep blaming LEC for the NGE. Do you really think LEC made SOE work on the NGE, slave away doing that, not fixing the game then LEC FORCED SOE to put it live on the servers while SMed was saying: "No! That will kill our subscriptions! You know nothing about MMOs!"
Honestly, I don't think so...
Agreed .... 150%.
Sago Mactow Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet 6/26/03 - 1/26/06 Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect DFR Councilman Tarq Server
Originally posted by iskareot It’s often frustrating to work with third party IP. There’s a constant battle over what the right direction is for the game, and from our own recent experience, it’s not something we enjoy. It very often puts handcuffs on what we can and can’t do and, frankly speaking, it’s a lot harder to make great games when the IP holders don’t understand the online gaming market.
I'm sure LA is trying to keep some control of the content but it seems to me they have let SOE have a lot of room to change the game since it really doesn't fit the timeline it was meant to be in. They have made it a jedi haven when there isn't supposed to be many and they have mixed parts from different times in the story and totally revamped the game 3 times. if LA had such a tight grip, im sure they wouldn't have been able to do all that!
_____ When Sony and Lucas set out to create the NGE, we said, How can we do this and make it similar to WoW? We wanted it to be all about Iconic characters like Luke, combat and locking our players into a class. So we created a system that would restrict players and make all professions the same and there would be minimal gameplay around making that change. We definitely borrowed a lot of ideas from WoW that worked and figured out how to make them fit for SWG Julio Torres (2005)
Think maybe Smed is trying to deflect some of the blame so not to look like an idiot to the rest of the MMO community, and future buisness.
If LA was to blame why was Battlefront such a popular title? You dont have to know anything about MMOs to realize that changing a product after customers have purchased it would be a mistake.
SOE has a track record of crappy MMOs.. can anyone name one that is any good? Matrix was sold to them and they crap the bed on that one too. EQ was the only successful title and that too was sold to them.
Originally posted by lordhavoc450 Think maybe Smed is trying to deflect some of the blame so not to look like an idiot to the rest of the MMO community, and future buisness. ....
Originally posted by LordCaptain Approving content and approving changes to the system are diffrent things. I honestly don't think LEC knew what the NGE was going to do to the fluff of the game.
Also, if SOE HAS done this to other games, then I think that suggests that SOE is behind the CU and NGE.
I really can't see how people keep blaming LEC for the NGE. Do you really think LEC made SOE work on the NGE, slave away doing that, not fixing the game then LEC FORCED SOE to put it live on the servers while SMed was saying: "No! That will kill our subscriptions! You know nothing about MMOs!"
Honestly, I don't think so...
Agreed .... 150%.
I'll see that 150 and raise you another 200.
I just can't believe anyone would attack the OP saying that is fake. What morons.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by lordhavoc450 Think maybe Smed is trying to deflect some of the blame so not to look like an idiot to the rest of the MMO community, and future buisness. If LA was to blame why was Battlefront such a popular title? You dont have to know anything about MMOs to realize that changing a product after customers have purchased it would be a mistake.
SOE has a track record of crappy MMOs.. can anyone name one that is any good? Matrix was sold to them and they crap the bed on that one too. EQ was the only successful title and that too was sold to them. SOE is a cancer to MMORPGs...
SOE has much better track record at MMOs than LA. Much better. SOE 5-10?. LA = 0. And going strong. LA on the other hand hasn't produced anything of notice since their Monkey Island series and related adventures and the x-wing space series. I think these were also the last few titles produced by LA, then they started outsourcing everything.
Look at KOTOR. Part 1 set the standards. LA was never mentioned, except in the title and on the box. Part 2 forced out by LA prematurely was merely good.
LA recently completely restructures, changed leadership, etc.
Was BF really such a popular title? Was it? It was boxed game, with very limited replayability. Once it was sold, they were done with it. See where BF is in 3 years after launch. You cannot compare services and products.
Like it or not, while SOE's reputation is well deserved, but they aren't the bastard child of MMO industry. What else is there to compare against? Blizzard? Not really, one trick pony right now. Keep in mind, WoW only has around 1.5 - 2.5 mil accounts in western markets. EQ and EQ had what, 1 mil total in their time? The rest is China and general Asia. PlayNC? Doing well, but has different business model. They run extremly streamlined operation, which allows them to turn record profits with much smaller player base. According to some numbers, Anet's profits match those of WoW. And who else is there? In western markets, nobody. DaoC is running 5k players these days, Eve is 100k, but is an outsider and an indie and has 0 weight, the others are standalone one-trick pony companies.
To many this will seem contradiction in terms, but from business perspective, SOE is just as strong as Vivendi, and still stronger than PlayNC. And the PS3 launch will change some of those proportions.
The reality of shrinking subscriptions is the complete content saturation of the genre. Nobody is offering anything new. This is where SWG held its place. By dropping its uniquness they lost that. There are so many people that would go ape over UO ancestor right now. But alas, there are none planned. This was SOE's greatest mistake. Not milking the true value they had.
The reality of shrinking subscriptions is the complete content saturation of the genre. Nobody is offering anything new. This is where SWG held its place. By dropping its uniquness they lost that. There are so many people that would go ape over UO ancestor right now. But alas, there are none planned. This was SOE's greatest mistake. Not milking the true value they had.
Originally posted by LordCaptain Approving content and approving changes to the system are diffrent things. I honestly don't think LEC knew what the NGE was going to do to the fluff of the game.
That's what i think, too. The only people who could tell you exactly what the drastic changes the nge made to the game are the players and the developers. You try talking to your dad or your girlfriend about interdependency between players and sandbox vs. quests and they'll think you're talking a different language. Try talking with an LA producer about it and they'll probably react the same way. They'll probably understand the difference between a game that is "more starwarsy and iconic" and one with faster combat then one without those things. How can someone who doesnt know the intricacies of a game redesign it? Do you think Mr. Torres thought about those interdepencies, or did he just see more lightsabers?
I think that when LA looked at the nge to approve it, they saw more emphasis on star wars and a "ground breaking" combat design, they didnt see what it would do to the community or entertainers or the economy or interdependency. It was soe's responsiblity as developers to see that.
I think LA said hey, make this thing more action packed, make it more accessible. What they probably did not say was "Hey, take out all but 9 professions, remove decay, make a loot based economy, and for gods sakes redesign the ui and make the camera an off the shoulder view. Oh and make sure you do it right after you put out the expansion, that'll really go over well".
In my view 90% of the problem is soe, and the statement by Brenlow makes me more certain.
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by lordhavoc450
Think maybe Smed is trying to deflect some of the blame so not to look like an idiot to the rest of the MMO community, and future buisness. If LA was to blame why was Battlefront such a popular title? You dont have to know anything about MMOs to realize that changing a product after customers have purchased it would be a mistake.
SOE has a track record of crappy MMOs.. can anyone name one that is any good? Matrix was sold to them and they crap the bed on that one too. EQ was the only successful title and that too was sold to them. SOE is a cancer to MMORPGs...
SOE has much better track record at MMOs than LA. Much better. SOE 5-10?. LA = 0. And going strong. LA on the other hand hasn't produced anything of notice since their Monkey Island series and related adventures and the x-wing space series. I think these were also the last few titles produced by LA, then they started outsourcing everything.
Look at KOTOR. Part 1 set the standards. LA was never mentioned, except in the title and on the box. Part 2 forced out by LA prematurely was merely good.
LA recently completely restructures, changed leadership, etc.
Was BF really such a popular title? Was it? It was boxed game, with very limited replayability. Once it was sold, they were done with it. See where BF is in 3 years after launch. You cannot compare services and products.
Like it or not, while SOE's reputation is well deserved, but they aren't the bastard child of MMO industry. What else is there to compare against? Blizzard? Not really, one trick pony right now. Keep in mind, WoW only has around 1.5 - 2.5 mil accounts in western markets. EQ and EQ had what, 1 mil total in their time? The rest is China and general Asia. PlayNC? Doing well, but has different business model. They run extremly streamlined operation, which allows them to turn record profits with much smaller player base. According to some numbers, Anet's profits match those of WoW. And who else is there? In western markets, nobody. DaoC is running 5k players these days, Eve is 100k, but is an outsider and an indie and has 0 weight, the others are standalone one-trick pony companies.
To many this will seem contradiction in terms, but from business perspective, SOE is just as strong as Vivendi, and still stronger than PlayNC. And the PS3 launch will change some of those proportions.
The reality of shrinking subscriptions is the complete content saturation of the genre. Nobody is offering anything new. This is where SWG held its place. By dropping its uniquness they lost that. There are so many people that would go ape over UO ancestor right now. But alas, there are none planned. This was SOE's greatest mistake. Not milking the true value they had.
Ok first where are you getting 5-10 under MMO experience for SOE? Let's take a look...
1. EQ was originally created by 989/Verant, then taken over by SOE. SOE acted in basically the same position they are claiming they will act in regards to Vanguard during the first 2 years of EQ. I'll go ahead and give you this one, even though I was there for the Shadows of Luclin debacles and my first introductions to the incompentcy of corporate gaming mismanagement.
2. Planetside is not even considered a MMORPG by SOE, although you did say MMO, but MMO-what? MMO by itself can mean a lot of things. On the fence on whether to give you this one or not.
3. SWG, well if your including this as MMORPG experience for SOE then you have to at least give a 1 to LA, since they obviously both were involved. So that gets rid of your LA - 0 score.
4. EQ2, IMO the first true solo SOE MMORPG project. Reviews are mixed but they maintain a relatively small playerbase considering they were obviously trying to outdo WoW with their early release.
5. Matrix Online, What does this add to their MMORPG experience? I believe it was only acquired to get access to the DC Comic thing.
6. Vanguard, well even by admission by Sigil, SOE, and several people in this thread, SOE is supposed to have nothing to do with this other than publishing and support. So not gonna give ya this one.
7. DC Comics, third party IP, not even out yet. So no on this one.
8. Any other myriad of projects Smed is claiming to be on the burner. Nope.
So to summarize you have... 2 buyouts (EQ and MxO) 1 MMOFPS (Planetside) 2 3rd party IP's (SWG and DC) 1 No development involvement whatsoever (Vanguard) ?? Other projects (??) 1 from design to implementation MMORPG (EQ2)
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In offline games you then also have no complete experiences.
In gaming industry, very very very few companies do in-house development. They are strictly separated between game studios and publishers.
SOE has the role of the publisher. PlayNC is nothing but publisher. Blizzard on the other hand developed everything internally.
And that daily undertaking is called service. It's also the future of the IT industry. This is what Google understood.
Once again, in business world, there is no customer. There is financial reports on product success rates. The product can be MMORPG, chopped liver or garbage disposal. It all revolves around same money.
Hate SOE as much as you want, even if for a good reason. They are still there. Thousands of other companies aren't.
THIS is the ONLY thing that matters to investors. And investors determine the future.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
WoW shows how successful you can be when you make a QUALITY and BUG-FREE (mostly) game.
NC Soft shows how you can do the same in a corporate multiple-game structure.
$OE is suffering horribly about the same disease Sony has had for the few years. They forgot how TO PLEASE THEIR CUSTOMERS.
They USED to be innovators and leaders in their field. The field passed them.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by Peacedog
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In offline games you then also have no complete experiences.
In gaming industry, very very very few companies do in-house development. They are strictly separated between game studios and publishers.
SOE has the role of the publisher. PlayNC is nothing but publisher. Blizzard on the other hand developed everything internally.
And that daily undertaking is called service. It's also the future of the IT industry. This is what Google understood.
Once again, in business world, there is no customer. There is financial reports on product success rates. The product can be MMORPG, chopped liver or garbage disposal. It all revolves around same money.
Hate SOE as much as you want, even if for a good reason. They are still there. Thousands of other companies aren't.
THIS is the ONLY thing that matters to investors. And investors determine the future.
I hope you understand I was contesting your claim of a better "track record with MMO's" which in my opinion falls under design, development and maintenance of said MMO's. A "track record" of acquiring assets means nothing more than "you are good at acquiring assets", nothing more, nothing less.
I also do understand that it is called "service" but I decided to color up my language a bit, purely on the behalf of SOE (who also I did not specifically mention). Since most people would not comprehend SOE and service in the same sentence.
I can't possibly hate a corporate structure. I terribly dislike their methods. I don't hate Smedley, I just believe he is more adequate in "spinning" than actually doing his job. If SOE wants to ride on that, so be it, but it will not convince me to be a consumer of their products.
Yes SOE is still here and they will be here for awhile unfortunately or even fortunately (known evil preferred over unknown, etc, etc). But they are not here in the same capacity that they were 3-4 years ago. Try this experiment (if your a male). Fill the tub with cold cold water, jump in, look at your private parts. They are still there but definitely not in the capacity you'd want the public to see them in. BTW, after the bathtub experiment run into the next room and show your significant other. Now substitute "signifcant other" with "investor" and I think you will begin to understand the big picture I believe your trying to educate me on.
capacity that they were 3-4 years ago. Try this experiment (if your a male). Fill the tub with cold cold water, jump in, look at your private parts. They are still there but definitely not in the capacity you'd want the public to see them in. BTW, after the bathtub experiment run into the next room and show your significant other. Now substitute "signifcant other" with "investor" and I think you will begin to understand the big picture I believe your trying to educate me on.
I wouldn't go showing investors my private parts...
And for some reason, marriage tends to have shrinking effect on man's private parts as well...
Originally posted by Rekrul Originally posted by Peacedog
capacity that they were 3-4 years ago. Try this experiment (if your a male). Fill the tub with cold cold water, jump in, look at your private parts. They are still there but definitely not in the capacity you'd want the public to see them in. BTW, after the bathtub experiment run into the next room and show your significant other. Now substitute "signifcant other" with "investor" and I think you will begin to understand the big picture I believe your trying to educate me on.
I wouldn't go showing investors my private parts...
And for some reason, marriage tends to have shrinking effect on man's private parts as well...
As for everything else, only time will tell.
Gee, do we need to continue talking about this? I'd rather talk about the man's wife....
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by LordCaptain Approving content and approving changes to the system are diffrent things. I honestly don't think LEC knew what the NGE was going to do to the fluff of the game.
That's what i think, too. The only people who could tell you exactly what the drastic changes the nge made to the game are the players and the developers. You try talking to your dad or your girlfriend about interdependency between players and sandbox vs. quests and they'll think you're talking a different language. Try talking with an LA producer about it and they'll probably react the same way. They'll probably understand the difference between a game that is "more starwarsy and iconic" and one with faster combat then one without those things. How can someone who doesnt know the intricacies of a game redesign it? Do you think Mr. Torres thought about those interdepencies, or did he just see more lightsabers?
I think that when LA looked at the nge to approve it, they saw more emphasis on star wars and a "ground breaking" combat design, they didnt see what it would do to the community or entertainers or the economy or interdependency. It was soe's responsiblity as developers to see that.
I think LA said hey, make this thing more action packed, make it more accessible. What they probably did not say was "Hey, take out all but 9 professions, remove decay, make a loot based economy, and for gods sakes redesign the ui and make the camera an off the shoulder view. Oh and make sure you do it right after you put out the expansion, that'll really go over well".
In my view 90% of the problem is soe, and the statement by Brenlow makes me more certain.
We did tell them , we sent letters, emails and had dialog -- Myself having some with Smedley, he thought so different of the NGE... he was so wrong and we told him.
I gave it my best shot too, I told him in depth what was going to happen, what did happen and how bad it was...
He did not want to think that.
At least now saying "I told you so", does feel pretty good considering his postion..lol
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Comments
I know what you mean, I saw that a month or so ago and my respect for Smedley went up. He can't be totally evil if he likes Wheel of Time.
Add my thoughts and prayers to the growing list of supporters, Mr. Rigney.
Well said... I agree as well with you too.
Now the finger pointing has began
Ditto! Course I have been thinking of trying it out again now that auto fire and target lock are back... I must meditate and pray to the gods of CCP to give me strength not to!
You can hate on SOE all you want but you're deliberately missinterpreting what he's saying. I personaly am not a huge fan of SOE but everything Smed said is 100% true and it's exactly what several of us who work within/around the industry have been telling folks here for years now. The problems with SWG are unique to SWG because SWG is the only SOE title currently in production that is a 3rd party IP. The DC comics title will be their only other title that they are developing under a 3rd party IP. Vanguard, while a 3rd party holds the IP is also being developed and supported by that 3rd party. SOE will have no design input into the game so it falls outside the discussion.
No I think if you pay attention to the facts it's quite clear that he's very fed up with the situation between LEC and SOE and is tired of taking 100% of the heat for mixups caused by changes in direction dictated by a 3rd party (LEC).
Oh, and, by the way: SWG only ever had 300,000 accounts, not 500k. The only time that 500k was 'reported' was when LEC made the announcement which included trial accounts, not paying subscribers.
Sigil owns, operates, supports and develops Vanguard. SOE is going to be handling: Distribution & Billing of the game, I suspect they'll also be heavily involved in Promoting the game. None of those 3 roles involve Development. Sigil builds the game. SOE just gives you the means to pay for it.
As to your mention of the 'four different systems' in SWG that's exactly what smedly was talking about when he said that dealing with a 3rd Party IP that doesn't have the same direction causes problems. Do you HONESTLY think SOE wanted to change the combat system 4 times? They were told to make it easier, simpler to learn, etc. By the IP Holder. So they did. I fault SOE for many things. But core changes to the game are directed by the Producer, not the Developer, typically.
I do not dissagree with your statement. I am in the IT side of things, Admin and project guy... My cousin however is a Lead proggy guy from Ravensoft -- aka the Lead Prog man for Jedi Outcast, Jedi Acadmey .. Now, not to catch Hell here for mentioning to much but I can tell you that this mess between the two now is well known obviously... Comments that I have heard from more then one person in the industry have been unreal actually.
Smedley is tired of this... sooner or later the emails wear you down, the comments, reviews and bad awards bother you. Sooner or later anger will take effect, I DO HOLD SOE responsible, Helios is not the person to have in charge.. by far his is not a Leader. He is more of a Gastopo if you ask me.
SWG is done, I really feel that way.. it is struggling to stay afloat right now , it really is considering you have one of if NOT the biggest franchise for media out there and you cannot deliver a good product somthing is wrong.
At least I HAVE TO THINK that at this point Smedley will fess up and admit he made a mistake, I think in a way this blog is just that start IF NOT THE ACT there of.
He is trying to stay positive about it.. but I can see he is wearing thin... and I must say I am glad.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
"First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed.
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Brenlo Bixiebopper
Director, Global Community Relations - SOE"
I'd love to reply to that saying they faild on more then just timing and communication...they failed to deliver a viable product! Not only that but in hind sight failed to deliver a product that even had a chance of working, which is why now we are seeing a gradual return to a system similar to that of pre-NGE. Sure they are calling it different things but it boils down to being essentially the same thing just in a new wrapper. Look at the combat system now...both an FPS and a RPG style combat system...but when you factor in the announcement made at the summit that they will NOT be implementing collision detection it makes me suspect this dual combat system is just a stepping stone to getting rid of the FPS system.
So thanks Brenlo for the appology...but if you think that's all you failed in your fooling yourself.
Even if LEC told SOE to improve the game, which created the CUNGE, it's still SOE that did a shitty job.
Even if it was SOE who came up with the ideas for the CUNGE and got LEC to approve them, it's still LEC that didn't stop them.
Also, if SOE HAS done this to other games, then I think that suggests that SOE is behind the CU and NGE.
I really can't see how people keep blaming LEC for the NGE. Do you really think LEC made SOE work on the NGE, slave away doing that, not fixing the game then LEC FORCED SOE to put it live on the servers while SMed was saying: "No! That will kill our subscriptions! You know nothing about MMOs!"
Honestly, I don't think so...
Bottom line you do NOT EVER EVER EVER change a game right out from under your PAYING playerbase. SWG was 4 years in developement before released. It is during those development years the game is designed. Once release, the people incharge should have just stayed on course. Add content and expansions yes .... fix stuff that is broken, yes. But to nail your playerbase with a CU and then 6 months later, destroy what was left of the game with the NGE was as wrong as wrong can get.
It may not have been complete ... it may not have been perfect ... it may have had stuff that didn't work or didn't work right .... but with all the problems it was STILL the BEST MMO on the market. And if preCU or even CU for that matter was still on live servers it would STILL be the best MMO out there. Regardless of WoW and all their servers in China.
Who knows ... maybe if $OE put any money into advertising and opened up some Japan (and kept them up) and China servers ... SWG would have been bigger than WoW. Tho maybe not since Blizzard had a built in playerbase from World of Warcraft and Diablo.
I took my last course last week to get my MCSA. In my class sitting right next to me was someone that played WoW. Her and her husband has been playing it for 2 years. We got into a discussion one time during a break and I told her all the stuff SWG used to have in the game. She was in awe. She was very impressed with the mix and match of 32 professions and the crafting system including having your own vendors. WoW doesnt have that stuff. She thought it was a shame that $OE/$LA did what they did. She also said if she had heard about SWG (before the NGE) she and her husband would have played SWG.
$OE knows they f'ed up, but they will not do the right thing and make Classic servers available because they are too stuck on themselves. What a shame.
Smedley has made these comments probably due to stress and anger of taking the brunt of all this public critisism. Maybe partly due to the frustration of dealing with LEC. But he should have known what he was saying and that someone ... somewhere would see it and then repeat it. there is no doubt that his statements will have repercussions with LEC.
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
Sago Mactow
Former SWG 2yr 7 month Vet
6/26/03 - 1/26/06
Jedi, Master Shipwright, Master Architect
DFR Councilman
Tarq Server
_____
When Sony and Lucas set out to create the NGE, we said, How can we do this and make it similar to WoW? We wanted it to be all about Iconic characters like Luke, combat and locking our players into a class. So we created a system that would restrict players and make all professions the same and there would be minimal gameplay around making that change. We definitely borrowed a lot of ideas from WoW that worked and figured out how to make them fit for SWG Julio Torres (2005)
Think maybe Smed is trying to deflect some of the blame so not to look like an idiot to the rest of the MMO community, and future buisness.
If LA was to blame why was Battlefront such a popular title? You dont have to know anything about MMOs to realize that changing a product after customers have purchased it would be a mistake.
SOE has a track record of crappy MMOs.. can anyone name one that is any good? Matrix was sold to them and they crap the bed on that one too. EQ was the only successful title and that too was sold to them.
SOE is a cancer to MMORPGs...
I'll see that 150 and raise you another 200.
I just can't believe anyone would attack the OP saying that is fake. What morons.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Look at KOTOR. Part 1 set the standards. LA was never mentioned, except in the title and on the box. Part 2 forced out by LA prematurely was merely good.
LA recently completely restructures, changed leadership, etc.
Was BF really such a popular title? Was it? It was boxed game, with very limited replayability. Once it was sold, they were done with it. See where BF is in 3 years after launch. You cannot compare services and products.
Like it or not, while SOE's reputation is well deserved, but they aren't the bastard child of MMO industry. What else is there to compare against? Blizzard? Not really, one trick pony right now. Keep in mind, WoW only has around 1.5 - 2.5 mil accounts in western markets. EQ and EQ had what, 1 mil total in their time? The rest is China and general Asia. PlayNC? Doing well, but has different business model. They run extremly streamlined operation, which allows them to turn record profits with much smaller player base. According to some numbers, Anet's profits match those of WoW. And who else is there? In western markets, nobody. DaoC is running 5k players these days, Eve is 100k, but is an outsider and an indie and has 0 weight, the others are standalone one-trick pony companies.
To many this will seem contradiction in terms, but from business perspective, SOE is just as strong as Vivendi, and still stronger than PlayNC. And the PS3 launch will change some of those proportions.
The reality of shrinking subscriptions is the complete content saturation of the genre. Nobody is offering anything new. This is where SWG held its place. By dropping its uniquness they lost that. There are so many people that would go ape over UO ancestor right now. But alas, there are none planned. This was SOE's greatest mistake. Not milking the true value they had.
That's what i think, too. The only people who could tell you exactly what the drastic changes the nge made to the game are the players and the developers. You try talking to your dad or your girlfriend about interdependency between players and sandbox vs. quests and they'll think you're talking a different language. Try talking with an LA producer about it and they'll probably react the same way. They'll probably understand the difference between a game that is "more starwarsy and iconic" and one with faster combat then one without those things. How can someone who doesnt know the intricacies of a game redesign it? Do you think Mr. Torres thought about those interdepencies, or did he just see more lightsabers?
I think that when LA looked at the nge to approve it, they saw more emphasis on star wars and a "ground breaking" combat design, they didnt see what it would do to the community or entertainers or the economy or interdependency. It was soe's responsiblity as developers to see that.
I think LA said hey, make this thing more action packed, make it more accessible. What they probably did not say was "Hey, take out all but 9 professions, remove decay, make a loot based economy, and for gods sakes redesign the ui and make the camera an off the shoulder view. Oh and make sure you do it right after you put out the expansion, that'll really go over well".
In my view 90% of the problem is soe, and the statement by Brenlow makes me more certain.
For the Horde!
Look at KOTOR. Part 1 set the standards. LA was never mentioned, except in the title and on the box. Part 2 forced out by LA prematurely was merely good.
LA recently completely restructures, changed leadership, etc.
Was BF really such a popular title? Was it? It was boxed game, with very limited replayability. Once it was sold, they were done with it. See where BF is in 3 years after launch. You cannot compare services and products.
Like it or not, while SOE's reputation is well deserved, but they aren't the bastard child of MMO industry. What else is there to compare against? Blizzard? Not really, one trick pony right now. Keep in mind, WoW only has around 1.5 - 2.5 mil accounts in western markets. EQ and EQ had what, 1 mil total in their time? The rest is China and general Asia. PlayNC? Doing well, but has different business model. They run extremly streamlined operation, which allows them to turn record profits with much smaller player base. According to some numbers, Anet's profits match those of WoW. And who else is there? In western markets, nobody. DaoC is running 5k players these days, Eve is 100k, but is an outsider and an indie and has 0 weight, the others are standalone one-trick pony companies.
To many this will seem contradiction in terms, but from business perspective, SOE is just as strong as Vivendi, and still stronger than PlayNC. And the PS3 launch will change some of those proportions.
The reality of shrinking subscriptions is the complete content saturation of the genre. Nobody is offering anything new. This is where SWG held its place. By dropping its uniquness they lost that. There are so many people that would go ape over UO ancestor right now. But alas, there are none planned. This was SOE's greatest mistake. Not milking the true value they had.
Ok first where are you getting 5-10 under MMO experience for SOE? Let's take a look...
1. EQ was originally created by 989/Verant, then taken over by SOE. SOE acted in basically the same position they are claiming they will act in regards to Vanguard during the first 2 years of EQ. I'll go ahead and give you this one, even though I was there for the Shadows of Luclin debacles and my first introductions to the incompentcy of corporate gaming mismanagement.
2. Planetside is not even considered a MMORPG by SOE, although you did say MMO, but MMO-what? MMO by itself can mean a lot of things. On the fence on whether to give you this one or not.
3. SWG, well if your including this as MMORPG experience for SOE then you have to at least give a 1 to LA, since they obviously both were involved. So that gets rid of your LA - 0 score.
4. EQ2, IMO the first true solo SOE MMORPG project. Reviews are mixed but they maintain a relatively small playerbase considering they were obviously trying to outdo WoW with their early release.
5. Matrix Online, What does this add to their MMORPG experience? I believe it was only acquired to get access to the DC Comic thing.
6. Vanguard, well even by admission by Sigil, SOE, and several people in this thread, SOE is supposed to have nothing to do with this other than publishing and support. So not gonna give ya this one.
7. DC Comics, third party IP, not even out yet. So no on this one.
8. Any other myriad of projects Smed is claiming to be on the burner. Nope.
So to summarize you have...
2 buyouts (EQ and MxO)
1 MMOFPS (Planetside)
2 3rd party IP's (SWG and DC)
1 No development involvement whatsoever (Vanguard)
?? Other projects (??)
1 from design to implementation MMORPG (EQ2)
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In offline games you then also have no complete experiences.
In gaming industry, very very very few companies do in-house development. They are strictly separated between game studios and publishers.
SOE has the role of the publisher. PlayNC is nothing but publisher. Blizzard on the other hand developed everything internally.
And that daily undertaking is called service. It's also the future of the IT industry. This is what Google understood.
Once again, in business world, there is no customer. There is financial reports on product success rates. The product can be MMORPG, chopped liver or garbage disposal. It all revolves around same money.
Hate SOE as much as you want, even if for a good reason. They are still there. Thousands of other companies aren't.
THIS is the ONLY thing that matters to investors. And investors determine the future.
NC Soft shows how you can do the same in a corporate multiple-game structure.
$OE is suffering horribly about the same disease Sony has had for the few years. They forgot how TO PLEASE THEIR CUSTOMERS.
They USED to be innovators and leaders in their field. The field passed them.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
In my opinion, if you want to claim a complete MMORPG experience from design to implementation with only themselves to blame or fall back on, that would be EQ2. Acquiring other IP's is akin to me saying I can race in Nascar just because I bought the right car.
As far as any other experience even with their acquisitions they are definitely NOT known for timely fixes, intelligent design methods, consistency, or great customer service. But by your argument of all the great experinence they have they should be number 1 in all categories.
In all fairness to you though I will admit the corporate atmosphere is hardly conducive to maintaining a product that requires almost daily caretaking to be properly considered a success. Which is why you see SOE in the situation they are in now. A lot of product with very little customer satisfaction and very little true success.
And finally quantity does not equal quality. WoW under your system would score exactly 1. 'nuff said.
In offline games you then also have no complete experiences.
In gaming industry, very very very few companies do in-house development. They are strictly separated between game studios and publishers.
SOE has the role of the publisher. PlayNC is nothing but publisher. Blizzard on the other hand developed everything internally.
And that daily undertaking is called service. It's also the future of the IT industry. This is what Google understood.
Once again, in business world, there is no customer. There is financial reports on product success rates. The product can be MMORPG, chopped liver or garbage disposal. It all revolves around same money.
Hate SOE as much as you want, even if for a good reason. They are still there. Thousands of other companies aren't.
THIS is the ONLY thing that matters to investors. And investors determine the future.
I hope you understand I was contesting your claim of a better "track record with MMO's" which in my opinion falls under design, development and maintenance of said MMO's. A "track record" of acquiring assets means nothing more than "you are good at acquiring assets", nothing more, nothing less.
I also do understand that it is called "service" but I decided to color up my language a bit, purely on the behalf of SOE (who also I did not specifically mention). Since most people would not comprehend SOE and service in the same sentence.
I can't possibly hate a corporate structure. I terribly dislike their methods. I don't hate Smedley, I just believe he is more adequate in "spinning" than actually doing his job. If SOE wants to ride on that, so be it, but it will not convince me to be a consumer of their products.
Yes SOE is still here and they will be here for awhile unfortunately or even fortunately (known evil preferred over unknown, etc, etc). But they are not here in the same capacity that they were 3-4 years ago. Try this experiment (if your a male). Fill the tub with cold cold water, jump in, look at your private parts. They are still there but definitely not in the capacity you'd want the public to see them in. BTW, after the bathtub experiment run into the next room and show your significant other. Now substitute "signifcant other" with "investor" and I think you will begin to understand the big picture I believe your trying to educate me on.
ROFL
I wouldn't go showing investors my private parts...
And for some reason, marriage tends to have shrinking effect on man's private parts as well...
As for everything else, only time will tell.
I wouldn't go showing investors my private parts...
And for some reason, marriage tends to have shrinking effect on man's private parts as well...
As for everything else, only time will tell.
Gee, do we need to continue talking about this? I'd rather talk about the man's wife....
I see this did cause some ripple effects..
lol Brenlo grew a pair I see today...lol
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
That's what i think, too. The only people who could tell you exactly what the drastic changes the nge made to the game are the players and the developers. You try talking to your dad or your girlfriend about interdependency between players and sandbox vs. quests and they'll think you're talking a different language. Try talking with an LA producer about it and they'll probably react the same way. They'll probably understand the difference between a game that is "more starwarsy and iconic" and one with faster combat then one without those things. How can someone who doesnt know the intricacies of a game redesign it? Do you think Mr. Torres thought about those interdepencies, or did he just see more lightsabers?
I think that when LA looked at the nge to approve it, they saw more emphasis on star wars and a "ground breaking" combat design, they didnt see what it would do to the community or entertainers or the economy or interdependency. It was soe's responsiblity as developers to see that.
I think LA said hey, make this thing more action packed, make it more accessible. What they probably did not say was "Hey, take out all but 9 professions, remove decay, make a loot based economy, and for gods sakes redesign the ui and make the camera an off the shoulder view. Oh and make sure you do it right after you put out the expansion, that'll really go over well".
In my view 90% of the problem is soe, and the statement by Brenlow makes me more certain.
We did tell them , we sent letters, emails and had dialog -- Myself having some with Smedley, he thought so different of the NGE... he was so wrong and we told him.
I gave it my best shot too, I told him in depth what was going to happen, what did happen and how bad it was...
He did not want to think that.
At least now saying "I told you so", does feel pretty good considering his postion..lol
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1