Why are people against Solo content in MMORPGs?

Ruthgar

After reading post after post against solo content in WoW, I want to know why
everyone is so against solo content? I don't care that the Ms in MMORPG stand for Massively Multiplayer, if I want
to solo I should be able to. If I want a solo dungeon, why can't I have that?
Why should MMOs all be about forced grouping?

All of my friends solo most of the time, they only group to raid. Why do all games have 5, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 40 man dungeons and no solo dungeons?

I think MMOs should be all about flexibility and choice. If I want to solo and live with worse drops, why can't I have that choice? If I want to group with x number of people to get better drops, I always have that as an option.
I think dungeons (especially instanced ones) should be variable. The more people that go in, the harder the dungeon and the better the drops.

MMOs shouldn't cater to one playstyle. However you choose to play, should be supported. If I want to raid with 50 people, then the game should support it as much as it should support the soloer.

Smirch

While I agree that lack of solo content in a game turns me off, I also think that grouping is essential to a good MMO. For example, have you ever compared one hour spent grinding solo to one hour spent grinding in a group? Maybe it's just me but the time goes by a lot faster and I tend to have a lot more fun when I"m being social.

I think a few games try to force players to be social and that always goes badly. Just look at the home page of this site. DDO has buckled and is adding solo content after being so rigidly group orientated.

Its just hard to find a game with a nice mix of both.

Nicoli

Alot of it I would suspect is from the limited developing space in MMOs and also the limited time that the Devs can spend adding stuff. In most respects when I play a MMO, I want to interact with people. Although I do think soloing is nice its a balance between the 2 that nobody has gotten right yet. WoW, EQ, EVE, and every other game out there is still working on that balance. And in many ways I think its always going to favor one or the other. In the end I've had to realize that Its best to look at off line games for solo play as they can be easily made to react to a single player and the Quality tends to be better. MMO's have to worry about multiple plater groups so it is harder for them to make more imersing areas as the traps to trigger NPC interactions must be more complex. 

Fabled1

Seriously mane, on tha realz why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games if you really want to solo so much, and save yourself some 10-15 bucks a month.

Nicoli

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Originally posted by Fabled1
Seriously mane, on tha realz why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games if you really want to solo so much, and save yourself some 10-15 bucks a month.

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Well Realize that sometimes you may want to play a game but not deal with the people at that time or pick up groups may just be really bad in that game. So you need something to do by your self at least untill someone you want to play with comes online or you get into that group mentality. Happens to me lots in EVE after I lose a ship I often don't want to play with anyone else for a few till I'm done berating  my self as I don't want to turn on them

nomadian

Agree with OP in that knowing there is a significant number of people who play mmorpgs to solo and there are also many groupers who just want the option to solo; why? because you can't always find a group. But having said that if I played a group-emphasized mmorpg, it would bug me if it changed its vision so that a large part of the game was soloing because a game shouldn't necessary cater to soloers when there are other mmorpgs around which will do that. Ie. If a selling point of a game was group-emphasis, joining that game and expecting solo would be wrong.

nthnaoun

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Originally posted by Ruthgar
After reading post after post against solo content in WoW, I want to know why
everyone is so against solo content? Everyone isn't. When i started playing MMO's in 2002, grouping was the preferred method and people thought it was more fun to group. It brought the community close and encouraged friendships. Personally, I would rather play Oblivion or another solo RPG than play a MMO solo. Grinding is so boring solo and the content is no where as good as a single player RPG. If you play a MMO to solo, but then say I can chat to people while I play, wouldn't it be more cost effective to play a single player game with better content and talk on IRC or another chat room?

I don't care that the Ms in MMORPG stand for Massively Multiplayer, if I want
to solo I should be able to. If I want a solo dungeon, why can't I have that?
Why should MMOs all be about forced grouping? The majority of MMO's don't force you to group, except on Raids and hard bosses.

All of my friends solo most of the time, they only group to raid. Why do all games have 5, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 40 man dungeons and no solo dungeons?

I think MMOs should be all about flexibility and choice. If I want to solo and live with worse drops, why can't I have that choice? You can solo in every game and you will have the worst drops and you can easily just buy the drops from raids off of people who do them. So you do have that choice.

 If I want to group with x number of people to get better drops, I always have that as an option.  You do in all the games I have played.

I think dungeons (especially instanced ones) should be variable. The more people that go in, the harder the dungeon and the better the drops.

MMOs shouldn't cater to one playstyle. However you choose to play, should be supported. If I want to raid with 50 people, then the game should support it as much as it should support the soloer. If you look at some of the recent MMO's that try to compare to all the playstyles vrs those that didn't in the past, you would see that people complain about the newer ones a lot more. Reason being is because when you try to cater to all, you are mediocre at all. When you concentrate on one, you are very good in that one.

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MagicStar

Most people don't like solo contents in mmos because in those type of games, you should be expected to interact with other players and have a huge player political atmosphere.

Or have multiple players which id highly recommended to take out powerful npcs of many types.


So either by player cooperation or PvP.

scaramoosh

There should be solo content like in SWG it was in the form of crafting and grinding etc. The social part tho was the big PVP fights and the instances/dungeons.

I think there should be solo content but not the whole game like WOW

Plus it's a mmorpg, your meant to group if you wanna solo everything play RPGs

Wolfenpride

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Originally posted by Ruthgar
After reading post after post against solo content in WoW, I want to know why
everyone is so against solo content? I don't care that the Ms in MMORPG stand for Massively Multiplayer, if I want
to solo I should be able to. If I want a solo dungeon, why can't I have that?
Why should MMOs all be about forced grouping?

All of my friends solo most of the time, they only group to raid. Why do all games have 5, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 40 man dungeons and no solo dungeons?

I think MMOs should be all about flexibility and choice. If I want to solo and live with worse drops, why can't I have that choice? If I want to group with x number of people to get better drops, I always have that as an option.
I think dungeons (especially instanced ones) should be variable. The more people that go in, the harder the dungeon and the better the drops.

MMOs shouldn't cater to one playstyle. However you choose to play, should be supported. If I want to raid with 50 people, then the game should support it as much as it should support the soloer.

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Becauses its an mmo...if you want to solo play single player games such as Elder scrolls Oblivion and such.

Whats the point of an mmo if everyone solo's? Ruins the game imo

Umbrood

Most, if not all MMORPG players solo at some point or another, some more some less.

Fact of the matter is that quite a large playerbase, the largest I would say and I think most developers would agree, solo for quite a bit of their online time.

You only have to view the current games, they are all more or less solo friendly, even DDO wich was supposed to be the ultra hardcore forced group game decided to take a step back from their original design.

Same with EQ2 that had little to no solo content at release, now it has an abundance.

To the people who say "Go play a single player RPG" I will pose a question.

If you remove the grouping ability from any of these games does that make them bad?

Or at least worse then most single player RPG's out there?

Of wich there are very few these days anyhow, the best RPG's at this point, regardless of number of players or size of groups, are the online ones.

I will take the same stand on this as I do with most things, people who object to other peoples personal preferences, ones that have little to no impact on themself, are idiots plain and simple.

And reading the replies here just underlines that last statement.

Or are you all just the scraps of the PR people for Oblivion?

 

Aphar

Caves=solo dungeons ??????????????

Unknown

Because MMOs are played by a vast herd of tyranical sheep.

Antarious

"why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games "

No to pick on the poster that replied with that... actually its a spin.

I always laughed because I'd see that on the VN DAoC forums.

Then the same person the next day would be complaining about how their 8 man (group) gets run over by zergs all the time.  Then they ask why can't people respect groups in a "realm" versus "realm" game.

I mean to me its the same thing.  If you are like an outcast because you want to "solo".  Why does the same not apply to people that only want to run a group in a game where its realm  versus realm.  I mean its not 8 v 8 or whatever...

Which is why I believe all play styles need to be supported to some degree.

I like the idea more of most outland zones containing solo content.  Then having epic/raid whatever you want to calll them areas for groups.  I personally don't have any issue if group/raid areas give better gear etc...

I don't think its really that hard to give content the the solo/small group people as well as the large group/raid people.  To many just focus on one... and even some of those don't do that one thing very well.

Takai001

Apocalyptica

I think mmorpg's need content for solo and team play. Because sometimes you just haven't got time to meet up with loads of people to do stuff. Sometimes you only want to quickly log in and play for an hour and log off again. Teamplay should not be forced but wanted by the payers. To have an even balanced mmorpg you need content for both.

holythough

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Originally posted by Fabled1
Seriously mane, on tha realz why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games if you really want to solo so much, and save yourself some 10-15 bucks a month.

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Sign again. Multi Player doesn't mean have to group. It means COMMUNITY for some just a chat channel , for others the driving force dehind the econimics of the game another aspect off a mmorpg, for others able to do groups and do tatical play in some mmorpg it also means politics and overall it means repetation has meaning. Personaly i think a mmorpg withouth solo content just is a mmorpg that is lacking. Give me any mmorpg that has a thousand peeps doing solo things to have thriving economics in the game and it will be beter then any mmorpg where grouping is an obligation i garantee it. Only for higher goals grouping should become an obligation its still needed for the forming of a good community.

Vanillacream

I'm not against the solo content, its actually a nice change. But I think it got blown up too much in the "media" for solo content in mmos because developers didnt add alot of it and ppl were getting sick of LFG all the time.

I personaly find it stupid when companys use there solo content as a sales point. On adds etc. "More solo content" etc etc, it kinda goes against the whole concept of the mmo.
I REALLY find it funny that DDO has done this, espesally since they had the coolest tag line I have ever seen for a MMO "Friends dont let friends play solo". Talk about going backwards. LOL

Unknown

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Originally posted by Fabled1
Seriously mane, on tha realz why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games if you really want to solo so much, and save yourself some 10-15 bucks a month.

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This comment should be directed straight at the so called casual player...not the solo player. It's the casual play style that's much more disruptive to and incompatible with the MMOG concept.

DeletedAcct

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Originally posted by poopypants

Originally posted by Fabled1Seriously mane, on tha realz why play a MMORPG (Mass MULTIPLAYER ONLINE RPG) and want to solo, why not play Oblivion or console games if you really want to solo so much, and save yourself some 10-15 bucks a month.
This comment should be directed straight at the so called casual player...not the solo player. It's the casual play style that's much more disruptive to and incompatible with the MMOG concept.

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Holy crap, I agree with Poopy!

Ruthgar

I think some of you didn't understand my point.

I never said that I was antigrouping or antiraiding. I said that has it's place. I never said I never
wanted to interact with another person. I said that there should be solo dungeons, not just solo quests.
I never said that a game had to cater to only one play style. I typically play 30-50 hours per week. How could I
could I find groups at 4am in the morning and 5pm in the evening on a consistant basis to fit my schedule?

Here is what I am suggesting:

There is an entrance to the Lair of the White Dragon (an instance dungeon). It should scale based on the number of people that enter it. If one person enters it, then it should have risks and rewards for a soloer, if 40 enter it, it should scale up rewards and risks.


My post did bring out people saying that I shouldn't play MMOs if I want to solo. Like I said, all of my friends that play, solo most of the time. They solo before raids, the solo on days they don't raid. I have yet to meet anyone that groups all the time.

I guess I shouldn't have made my title to my thread what I did, because I already knew the answer as some of the people have posted.

holythough

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Originally posted by Ruthgar
Here is what I am suggesting:

There is an entrance to the Lair of the White Dragon (an instance dungeon). It should scale based on the number of people that enter it. If one person enters it, then it should have risks and rewards for a soloer, if 40 enter it, it should scale up rewards and risks.

This has been tryed but it always got exploited by people with bot accounts.
It better to have 1 person dugeons and raid dugeon apart.

My post did bring out people saying that I shouldn't play MMOs if I want to solo. Like I said, all of my friends that play, solo most of the time. They solo before raids, the solo on days they don't raid. I have yet to meet anyone that groups all the time.

This is treu. Don't believe the hype mmorpg's will always have soloers in them. But many people (and i agree) want better mechanics that make grouping easier and also have more group content then most mmorpg have. Looking at WoW the amount of grouping except for the lvl60 instances is pathetic. You just get the sense that the community only starts for people that have an lvl60

I guess I shouldn't have made my title to my thread what I did, because I already knew the answer as some of the people have posted.


It's a valid qeustion. And you always have other treads that already state they things the answer to your thread. forum people are just always repeating themself. In fact im repeating myself aswell im sure i replyed with similar responses before to another thread

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nthnaoun

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Originally posted by Umbrood

Most, if not all MMORPG players solo at some point or another, some more some less.
Fact of the matter is that quite a large playerbase, the largest I would say and I think most developers would agree, solo for quite a bit of their online time.
You only have to view the current games, they are all more or less solo friendly, even DDO wich was supposed to be the ultra hardcore forced group game decided to take a step back from their original design.
Same with EQ2 that had little to no solo content at release, now it has an abundance.
To the people who say "Go play a single player RPG" I will pose a question.
If you remove the grouping ability from any of these games does that make them bad? Yes. Since when is killing thousands of badgers better than a quest in a RPG single player game like Oblivion? Since when is a solo quest in an MMO better than a single player RPG quest? MMO's are fun to me, because I get to group with others to overcome adversities. Soloing in an MMO bores me to tears and I end up logging off and playing Oblivion instead.
Or at least worse then most single player RPG's out there? Oblivion, Morrowind, KOTOR, KOTOR2, Baldurs Gate games, and any DnD RPG, Final Fantasy...and many more are ten times the better game than any MMO out there. What makes a MMO better than those is the ability to group with real people to overcome adversities. When people would rather solo or the community is child like, the MMO falls below all RPG single player games once again.
Of wich there are very few these days anyhow, the best RPG's at this point, regardless of number of players or size of groups, are the online ones. Even if this was true, it would only be true if people allowed others to immerse themselves in the MMORPG. In any single player RPG I don't have an asshat ruining the game by talking about things that doesn't pertain to the game, or being rude, or talking in 1337. If people kept talk in MMO's game related without the drama, the MMORPG's would be one step closer to being a better experience than their single player cousins.
I will take the same stand on this as I do with most things, people who object to other peoples personal preferences, ones that have little to no impact on themself, are idiots plain and simple.
And reading the replies here just underlines that last statement.
Or are you all just the scraps of the PR people for Oblivion?

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Diatribe

Solo'ing is great for those that want to progress along at their own pace, do what they want, when they want, ect, ect, ect.  The only drawback, is that later when you need to group to get quests done, kill monsters/npcs, you might not have the appropriate skills to function properlly in a group.  Heck, you might not have refined you social skills either and be a punk to your groupmates and never invited again, FORCING you to be more solo.

It's a balance I like to find the happy medium to, to be perfectly honest.  I level'd up 5 60's in WoW and due to other online games I'd played, had long since learned to keep my social skills in check and occassionally group up with folks to learn how to function properly in a group with the given class I was playing.  And it worked well..

D.

Vhaln

The more solo content there is, the more people end up soloing, even people who prefer grouping.
That may not seem to make sense, and in theory, you can say people who want to group have only themselves to blame if they don't group, but reality is a lot more complicated than that.  Even when you can find a group in a solo-friendly game, it tends to suck compared to the game that's built for grouping.  If a game doesn't push grouping, there are all sorts of reasons grouping doesn't work out as well as it does in games that do make it almost mandatory.

nthnaoun

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Originally posted by Vhaln
The more solo content there is, the more people end up soloing, even people who prefer grouping.
That may not seem to make sense, and in theory, you can say people who want to group have only themselves to blame if they don't group, but reality is a lot more complicated than that.  Even when you can find a group in a solo-friendly game, it tends to suck compared to the game that's built for grouping.  If a game doesn't push grouping, there are all sorts of reasons grouping doesn't work out as well as it does in games that do make it almost mandatory.

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I agree.