Originally posted by CenturionXIX I completely agree with you Kain...they need to reroll some servers to Pre CU status. I Still think that Pre CU Star Wars Galaxies was one of the best MMO's i have every played. I never had so much fun with a game untill SOE turned SWG into a cheap version of WoW with the first combat revamp.
Formerly known as Skolo Boscrati- Radiant Server
I have no idea why you guys thinky that. The Pre-CU was horrible. It was massively broken and grossly unbalanced.
The only way a Pre-CU (or Classic) server would survive would be if they fixed it and balanced it and that is simply not going to happen! The Pre-CU game had very little to do with Star Wars and everything to do with Melee Stacking and Combat Medic Tossing, professions that hand little to no place in Star Wars Galaxy.
Look, I quit the game (after 2.5 years) when the NGE came out because it was horrible. And I agree with everyone that the Pre-CU (and CU had they have fixed it) had AWESOME potential as a game had they of fixed the problems. But that is it, potential. The game itself was horrible. The concept for the game was AWESOME, but the implimentation was not.
AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
In order for a "Classic" server to work, the game has to work! So in order for them to release one, they would have to spend MORE development time fixing it then they are spending on the NGE now and that is not going to happen.
Face it, SWG is dead and it is not coming back. If they released the Pre-CU game as it was before the CU came out people would flock to it. Then after about 2 months or so, they would quit. Just as they were doing before because they simply do not want to play a broken and unbalanced game.
Originally posted by RysinLexicon Originally posted by CenturionXIX I completely agree with you Kain...they need to reroll some servers to Pre CU status. I Still think that Pre CU Star Wars Galaxies was one of the best MMO's i have every played. I never had so much fun with a game untill SOE turned SWG into a cheap version of WoW with the first combat revamp.
Formerly known as Skolo Boscrati- Radiant Server
I have no idea why you guys thinky that. The Pre-CU was horrible. It was massively broken and grossly unbalanced.
The only way a Pre-CU (or Classic) server would survive would be if they fixed it and balanced it and that is simply not going to happen! The Pre-CU game had very little to do with Star Wars and everything to do with Melee Stacking and Combat Medic Tossing, professions that hand little to no place in Star Wars Galaxy.
Look, I quit the game (after 2.5 years) when the NGE came out because it was horrible. And I agree with everyone that the Pre-CU (and CU had they have fixed it) had AWESOME potential as a game had they of fixed the problems. But that is it, potential. The game itself was horrible. The concept for the game was AWESOME, but the implimentation was not.
AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
In order for a "Classic" server to work, the game has to work! So in order for them to release one, they would have to spend MORE development time fixing it then they are spending on the NGE now and that is not going to happen.
Face it, SWG is dead and it is not coming back. If they released the Pre-CU game as it was before the CU came out people would flock to it. Then after about 2 months or so, they would quit. Just as they were doing before because they simply do not want to play a broken and unbalanced game.
Sorry, but that is how it is.
That is true. If we did get a classic server I would be interested in seeing the Original Combat Revamp that was finished but never used. The original Combat Revamp was instead replaced with the combat Upgrade.
From what I understand the Combat revamp was even tested and had positive reviews.
This could go along way in making a classic server a even bigger success.
The original combat revamp contained more of what the community was asking for. A tone done of buffs and dots and a better balance amoung the proffessions.
Originally posted by maxanto Originally posted by PyscoJuggalo Rumors are an effective weapon to battle SOE with. Look at the Bioware take over rumor, Smed had to go major outlets and explain that the rumors were flase. These rumors give SOE a black eye and call into question their current development. Sure some people are suckered by them, but that is a good learning experience for them, "Never trust anything until you see it for yourself." (Hell if people learned that in regard to world politics, then the world would be a better place as well) Rumor, bad reviews, and cancellations are our only weapons against SOE.
They are also a weapon that continually hurts this community. People get their hopes up in all these BS lies and then...
Well as people in this community can see from this thread the people who spread these lies every week, don't care about you at all. They are just using this board for their own stupid war over a VIDEO GAME. So when you read stuff here, even when they provide "proof" keep in mind they are only yanking your chain to further their own motivations.
Well I'm not saying constantly spam, "A PRE-CU SERVER IS COMING OUT NEXT WEEK" but a good rumor like Smedley being fired (which will never happen), or Dev's quiting in disgust, ect once in a while is good to burn SOE for burning their customers.
Most of these rumors are based in what the community wants, the fact the community has to get through their head is, SOE/LA don't care about what we want. If they did, the NGE would have been rolled back, hell maybe even the CU would have been rolled back. (That is also why I get pissed when people blame customers for what the Dev's do)
BTW who is to blame for destroying the community's hopes?
Rumor mongers that just post rumors that relate to the wants of the community or the developers who ignore the wants of the community?
BTW2- I need to get a pigeon costume...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
From what I understand the Combat revamp was even tested and had positive reviews.
Somewhat true. But the CU was never actually tested. We went from Sandbox discussions straight to Testcenter testing. No Alpha testing, no beta testing. I know this because I was one of the "Alpha" testers.
Being a part of the "Sandbox" was a pretty cool experience. SoE was actually listening to us. They made a first wave and published the idea.
We loved the CU and what we didn't like we ripped apart. Then they took what we wrote and actually made some changes and got the CU to a pretty good idea.
1.The CU Stats for each profession were updated and pretty well balanced.
o It was just Jedi and Healing that we were unsure about but we all figured we could get that in alpha testing.
2.The CU HAM Bar (with action cost) & 3k health was also good.
o They added the Action Cost and removed the multiple bar hits based on comments and went to a 1 health bar for damage and action bar for specials and mind bar for healing and things.
o The 3k health was to be based on Skill points expended.
3.Progressive Specials
o Normal, Improved, Advanced.
o Great idea to help those that mastered a profession rather then dabbled
4.Cooldown and Windups
o Another good concept IMO. This gave incentive to not spam and use other specials
5.Changing the Armor so that more then Composite was viable
o The original system had different quality armor. Light, regular, and heavy. Light being the weakest and the certifications would be granted at different levels of player progression in the skill boxes.
o No one really liked the idea of limited types of armor to types of classes, but SoE never changed that.
6.Adding defensive specials like Root, Snare, and Mezs
o This was AWSOME! This was a real way to incorporate tactics into combat!
7.Adding recoveries
o Another good addition!
8.Weapons changes
o With the CU, all weapons would have advantages and disadvantages
§ Pistols 0 – 35m
§ Carbines 20 – 50m
§ Rifles 35 – 65m
Where the CU failed was the things that they changed or created that were never discussed during the Sandbox and that they rushed it out once again.
It was a very strange event. Everything was marching along greatly and we were all anticipating the start of ALPHA TESTING. Us Bounty Hunters (total of 5 of us) were getting ready and putting our testing plan into place. We were being told (by Tiggs and TH) time and time again that the CU would be ready when it was ready and that it would not go out before then and that Alpha testing would start soon. They even went so far as to say that there was no deadline to when the CU would be ready!
They told use that they learned their lesson and were not going to repeat the mistake.
Then, communications went dead (go figure). We had about 2 weeks of no post from Dev’s and I recall someone (a tester) posting a link from some gaming site about RoTW and the marketing of the expansion said that they would be able to play the “new” combat upgrade! This was where the wheels fell off completely. Once again SoE lied! They had a deadline and it was in about 1 month! It was a joke.
The CU was going live in one month and we hadn’t even Alpha tested it. A few days later we all (Alpha Testers) got an e-mail saying they thanked us for our “testing” and that they appreciated out hard work and the Sandbox / Alpha testing was over.
They then posted a post about when the “beta” test would start. 2 weeks before the expansion went live. TWO FREAKING WEEKS! There were a TON of pissed off players.
Then, we go in and formed out groups. I tested with the Bounty Hunters. To my surprise (and all the other alpha testers) it was not exactly what we had discussed. Most of what we discussed was there, but there were things that came out of no where:
· Adding Combat Level was added
o We had not discussed this in the way it was being implemented.
o Combat Level became everything. Even stranger, this was not done till it went live. During the testing, CL was just an indicator od difficulty.
o But because they did have the time to get the AI right, they change it when it went live and made it the determining factor for damage, accuracy, and difficulty rather then just being a indicator of difficulty.
o Combat level did more to determine your ability to hit your target then accuracy and / or defense.
· They changed the way Accuracy and Defense affected your to hit %.
o In fact, Accuracy and Defense had had more to do with damage then ability to hit, which was stupid.
o This aspect of the game did not need to be changed and was not discussed during the sandbox
· The biggest blow that the CU had was on the economy because with ROTW they started making LOOTS more valuable then crafted weapons.
o The was the beginning of the end for the crafting aspects of the game and (I might add) the most unique aspect of SWG or any other MMO!
o While not really part of the CU, it did happen at the same time.
· The other issue they ran into was not dealing with the increasing Alpha Profession (Jedi).
o They should have made Jedi equal to all other professions and use the FRS to grant the ALPHA power.
o That way, in order to achieve your alpha power you have to do it at the expense of another Jedi losing power.
o This keeps balance within the Jedi population and doesn’t relegate the other professions to Jedi Fodder or background content for Jedi
o This is just my opinion of course. Other then Jedi being 1.5x a full combat template, Jedi was not discussed during the "sandbox"
· But, IMO, what killed the Ranged combat balance was not adding the MIN values for Carbines and Rifles
o Don't get me wrong, I understand why they dropped it (to confusing with lag) but by keeping the MAX range on Pistols and Carbines it made Rilfes the unbalanced and dominate weapon
o IMO, they needed to revert back to specials being specific to weapon type in order to prevent a root from 65m away.
That is about it.
In comparison to the Pre-CU, I think the CU was pretty good, but it was the things they changed that shouldn't have been changed or didn't need to be changed that killed it.
It is all pointless now, but had we have had a little more testing and an actual Alpha and Beta Test would have balanced out the over powered healing of Combat Medics. I also think we could have balanced the AI too without the need for the CL doing everything.
But because they rushed it, it never got the attention it deserved.
In either case or debate, I bring this up because with all the talk of "Classic Servers" I think people need to remember that the Pre-CU game was really not one based on Star Wars. It was a Melee game and one that was grossly imbalanced and horribly bugged.
Don’t get me wrong, the Pre-CU is MUCH better then the NGE will ever be. But it had MUCH more things to fix then the CU had. If a "Classic Server" ever actually gets up and running, I do not expect it to take to long before everyone starts complaining about the imbalance and significant lack of content.
Comments
uhhh...
LOL I thought I would throw a lil Smed humour in.
I have no idea why you guys thinky that. The Pre-CU was horrible. It was massively broken and grossly unbalanced.
The only way a Pre-CU (or Classic) server would survive would be if they fixed it and balanced it and that is simply not going to happen! The Pre-CU game had very little to do with Star Wars and everything to do with Melee Stacking and Combat Medic Tossing, professions that hand little to no place in Star Wars Galaxy.
Look, I quit the game (after 2.5 years) when the NGE came out because it was horrible. And I agree with everyone that the Pre-CU (and CU had they have fixed it) had AWESOME potential as a game had they of fixed the problems. But that is it, potential. The game itself was horrible. The concept for the game was AWESOME, but the implimentation was not.
AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
In order for a "Classic" server to work, the game has to work! So in order for them to release one, they would have to spend MORE development time fixing it then they are spending on the NGE now and that is not going to happen.
Face it, SWG is dead and it is not coming back. If they released the Pre-CU game as it was before the CU came out people would flock to it. Then after about 2 months or so, they would quit. Just as they were doing before because they simply do not want to play a broken and unbalanced game.
Sorry, but that is how it is.
Concept for SWG 2
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/90081
I have no idea why you guys thinky that. The Pre-CU was horrible. It was massively broken and grossly unbalanced.
The only way a Pre-CU (or Classic) server would survive would be if they fixed it and balanced it and that is simply not going to happen! The Pre-CU game had very little to do with Star Wars and everything to do with Melee Stacking and Combat Medic Tossing, professions that hand little to no place in Star Wars Galaxy.
Look, I quit the game (after 2.5 years) when the NGE came out because it was horrible. And I agree with everyone that the Pre-CU (and CU had they have fixed it) had AWESOME potential as a game had they of fixed the problems. But that is it, potential. The game itself was horrible. The concept for the game was AWESOME, but the implimentation was not.
AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM!
In order for a "Classic" server to work, the game has to work! So in order for them to release one, they would have to spend MORE development time fixing it then they are spending on the NGE now and that is not going to happen.
Face it, SWG is dead and it is not coming back. If they released the Pre-CU game as it was before the CU came out people would flock to it. Then after about 2 months or so, they would quit. Just as they were doing before because they simply do not want to play a broken and unbalanced game.
Sorry, but that is how it is.
That is true. If we did get a classic server I would be interested in seeing the Original Combat Revamp that was finished but never used. The original Combat Revamp was instead replaced with the combat Upgrade.
From what I understand the Combat revamp was even tested and had positive reviews.
This could go along way in making a classic server a even bigger success.
The original combat revamp contained more of what the community was asking for. A tone done of buffs and dots and a better balance amoung the proffessions.
Well as people in this community can see from this thread the people who spread these lies every week, don't care about you at all. They are just using this board for their own stupid war over a VIDEO GAME. So when you read stuff here, even when they provide "proof" keep in mind they are only yanking your chain to further their own motivations.
Well I'm not saying constantly spam, "A PRE-CU SERVER IS COMING OUT NEXT WEEK" but a good rumor like Smedley being fired (which will never happen), or Dev's quiting in disgust, ect once in a while is good to burn SOE for burning their customers.
Most of these rumors are based in what the community wants, the fact the community has to get through their head is, SOE/LA don't care about what we want. If they did, the NGE would have been rolled back, hell maybe even the CU would have been rolled back. (That is also why I get pissed when people blame customers for what the Dev's do)
BTW who is to blame for destroying the community's hopes?
Rumor mongers that just post rumors that relate to the wants of the community or the developers who ignore the wants of the community?
BTW2- I need to get a pigeon costume...
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Concept for SWG 2
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/90081
Originally posted by kain-iii
From what I understand the Combat revamp was even tested and had positive reviews.
Somewhat true. But the CU was never actually tested. We went from Sandbox discussions straight to Testcenter testing. No Alpha testing, no beta testing. I know this because I was one of the "Alpha" testers.
Being a part of the "Sandbox" was a pretty cool experience. SoE was actually listening to us. They made a first wave and published the idea.
We loved the CU and what we didn't like we ripped apart. Then they took what we wrote and actually made some changes and got the CU to a pretty good idea.
1. The CU Stats for each profession were updated and pretty well balanced.
o It was just Jedi and Healing that we were unsure about but we all figured we could get that in alpha testing.
2. The CU HAM Bar (with action cost) & 3k health was also good.
o They added the Action Cost and removed the multiple bar hits based on comments and went to a 1 health bar for damage and action bar for specials and mind bar for healing and things.
o The 3k health was to be based on Skill points expended.
3. Progressive Specials
o Normal, Improved, Advanced.
o Great idea to help those that mastered a profession rather then dabbled
4. Cooldown and Windups
o Another good concept IMO. This gave incentive to not spam and use other specials
5. Changing the Armor so that more then Composite was viable
o The original system had different quality armor. Light, regular, and heavy. Light being the weakest and the certifications would be granted at different levels of player progression in the skill boxes.
o No one really liked the idea of limited types of armor to types of classes, but SoE never changed that.
6. Adding defensive specials like Root, Snare, and Mezs
o This was AWSOME! This was a real way to incorporate tactics into combat!
7. Adding recoveries
o Another good addition!
8. Weapons changes
o With the CU, all weapons would have advantages and disadvantages
§ Pistols 0 – 35m
§ Carbines 20 – 50m
§ Rifles 35 – 65m
Where the CU failed was the things that they changed or created that were never discussed during the Sandbox and that they rushed it out once again.
It was a very strange event. Everything was marching along greatly and we were all anticipating the start of ALPHA TESTING. Us Bounty Hunters (total of 5 of us) were getting ready and putting our testing plan into place. We were being told (by Tiggs and TH) time and time again that the CU would be ready when it was ready and that it would not go out before then and that Alpha testing would start soon. They even went so far as to say that there was no deadline to when the CU would be ready!
They told use that they learned their lesson and were not going to repeat the mistake.
Then, communications went dead (go figure). We had about 2 weeks of no post from Dev’s and I recall someone (a tester) posting a link from some gaming site about RoTW and the marketing of the expansion said that they would be able to play the “new” combat upgrade! This was where the wheels fell off completely. Once again SoE lied! They had a deadline and it was in about 1 month! It was a joke.
The CU was going live in one month and we hadn’t even Alpha tested it. A few days later we all (Alpha Testers) got an e-mail saying they thanked us for our “testing” and that they appreciated out hard work and the Sandbox / Alpha testing was over.
They then posted a post about when the “beta” test would start. 2 weeks before the expansion went live. TWO FREAKING WEEKS! There were a TON of pissed off players.
Then, we go in and formed out groups. I tested with the Bounty Hunters. To my surprise (and all the other alpha testers) it was not exactly what we had discussed. Most of what we discussed was there, but there were things that came out of no where:
· Adding Combat Level was added
o We had not discussed this in the way it was being implemented.
o Combat Level became everything. Even stranger, this was not done till it went live. During the testing, CL was just an indicator od difficulty.
o But because they did have the time to get the AI right, they change it when it went live and made it the determining factor for damage, accuracy, and difficulty rather then just being a indicator of difficulty.
o Combat level did more to determine your ability to hit your target then accuracy and / or defense.
· They changed the way Accuracy and Defense affected your to hit %.
o In fact, Accuracy and Defense had had more to do with damage then ability to hit, which was stupid.
o This aspect of the game did not need to be changed and was not discussed during the sandbox
· The biggest blow that the CU had was on the economy because with ROTW they started making LOOTS more valuable then crafted weapons.
o The was the beginning of the end for the crafting aspects of the game and (I might add) the most unique aspect of SWG or any other MMO!
o While not really part of the CU, it did happen at the same time.
· The other issue they ran into was not dealing with the increasing Alpha Profession (Jedi).
o They should have made Jedi equal to all other professions and use the FRS to grant the ALPHA power.
o That way, in order to achieve your alpha power you have to do it at the expense of another Jedi losing power.
o This keeps balance within the Jedi population and doesn’t relegate the other professions to Jedi Fodder or background content for Jedi
o This is just my opinion of course. Other then Jedi being 1.5x a full combat template, Jedi was not discussed during the "sandbox"
· But, IMO, what killed the Ranged combat balance was not adding the MIN values for Carbines and Rifles
o Don't get me wrong, I understand why they dropped it (to confusing with lag) but by keeping the MAX range on Pistols and Carbines it made Rilfes the unbalanced and dominate weapon
o IMO, they needed to revert back to specials being specific to weapon type in order to prevent a root from 65m away.
That is about it.
In comparison to the Pre-CU, I think the CU was pretty good, but it was the things they changed that shouldn't have been changed or didn't need to be changed that killed it.
It is all pointless now, but had we have had a little more testing and an actual Alpha and Beta Test would have balanced out the over powered healing of Combat Medics. I also think we could have balanced the AI too without the need for the CL doing everything.
But because they rushed it, it never got the attention it deserved.
In either case or debate, I bring this up because with all the talk of "Classic Servers" I think people need to remember that the Pre-CU game was really not one based on Star Wars. It was a Melee game and one that was grossly imbalanced and horribly bugged.
Don’t get me wrong, the Pre-CU is MUCH better then the NGE will ever be. But it had MUCH more things to fix then the CU had. If a "Classic Server" ever actually gets up and running, I do not expect it to take to long before everyone starts complaining about the imbalance and significant lack of content.
But it will be a great blast for a while!!!
Concept for SWG 2
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/90081
RysinLexicon
Thanks for sharing the info.
It is a real shame that they made the changes they did.
If only they had maintained the direction they did I am sure it would of grown.
SWG had a very loyal player base and the word of mouth would have been strong.
With a lil bit of advertisement I am sure it would have been a million suscribers.