1. Higher stakes and risks will end up being more INTENSE pvp because you and your opponent knows there are larger consequences involved in losing. Everyone will try their best to survive! Some people like pvp to be INTENSE.
2. With intense pvp comes great patience and courage. Alot of times this is something younger kids that go around WoW griefing can't do. This will cause alot of griefers to be filtered out in the higher lvls.
3. PVP is like Poker. Poker isn't fun without money(stakes) on the line.
4. People who said pvp is supposed to be fun but don't want consequences are contradicting themselves (please give this some thought). Think about the basis and reason why people pvp. It is to come up top, it is to survive against the other! Don't you think people will fight harder to live with pvp consequences than someone not?
I completely agree, i'm so tired of care bears ruining what might be a good game for the rest of us.
LoL, you're tired of carebears ruining the game for PvPers? LoL, Let me tell you what I'm sick of....
1. Balancing the PVE game because of PVP
2. Griefing/Ganking by rabid PVPers
3. The extensive whining in broadcast about how you cheated by using a heal, you aren't playing fair, you suck, etc, etc, etc.
PVP has ruined more games than I care to think about. If a game is going to have PvP, they should have open PVP servers and non-PVP servers. Make PVP balance changes to the PVP servers only. Leave the rest of us alone please!
Not one of the posters who want full loot PVP has answered some of the biggest problems:
First, well this isnt really a problem more a design decision. If you have a lvl cap and then endgame content all/most MMOs apply the same rule:
Effort + time = reward. This keeps your players occupied. If you can get some of the best gear in the game with a swift kill of a weakened or occupied player, you bypass those hours required to aquire that gear. This will keep some players going at it, killing player after player and with a good group and good tactics you might get yourself endgame gear in a few days instead of weeks. That shortens the life span of the game. The ppl who have killed and killed and got the "best" gear dont have anything to do, why raid for thing you already got?, why pvp other than "fun"(in this stage the Full loot PVP point is moot, players either kill to grief or because its "fun" but they dont really have much to gain from it). Its a bad design decision to have endgame PVE content that takes alot of time and effort and full loot pvp since it "shortens" the game time. Its doable if teh endgame IS pvp but this is not the case in this game atleast.
Secondly we have the Guild vs guild issue. You guys dont seem to be a fan of this idea either since its part consentual.
Still, if the guild leader decides wheter or not you go to war with another guild you get some problems. If its two major guilds, neither of them is probably able to do anything by themselfs. This would kill "casual" players or players that like to do thing on their own. Still Guild wars is a better system than FFA since you can choose not to participate. kinda depens though if both guilds have to agree or if you can just declare war on a guild and go about to attack them. If its the latter you get the same deal again. One guild could "kill" a whole server, just decaring war after war on any guild they can find untill they have looted em back to sticks and stones. No thanks, too much power will be abused, especially in MMOs.
The only reasonable decision i can get to with full loot pvp is to have it in specified zones, you choose to enter it, but know you can loose all your stuff, place some really great things in these zones to motivate players beyond just attacking eachother.
This could be implemented into G&H with an expansion that unlocks a new nation. Battlefields etc.
I really want a short explanation on how Full loot FFA pvp in all zones of the world would work, without breaking the game, designwise or playerwise in a game like G&H.
Having that said i really look forward to G&H. Now if i just could get into the damn beta
Full loot in PVP = no one taking the risk = no one subscribing or chosing this server = not many people actually playing the game = universe becomes quasi-empty, deserted and uninteresting = the game slowly disappears as all MMORPG without gamers...
I know this is a touchy subject but damn it Ill say it anyway. Without looting PVP has no meaning at all, oh say what you will that just knowing I can beat so and so in duel is reward in itself, well its not. There is no thrill without the risk of losing all of your equipment. I dont wanna hear about arena duels, epic battles, bar brawls, capture the flag, king of the hill, instanced fighting, you can only fight if everyones the same level with the same number of people on the same hunka ground with the same weapons, blah, bu blah, bu blah blah blah. Im sick of it already.
So, I guess Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Battlefield and countless other games have meaningless pvp cause players dont have to sweat bout being killed? I'm sorry but I just dont agree with your reasoning here. I'd like to see some sort of realistic looting implemented but then if we really want to keep it real then you should just stay dead after you die. You know, like in Counterstrike.
Anyway I voted 'no' a few weeks ago but forgot to post my reasons. I'd like to see full looting server, etc but I dont think its required to make PvP meaningful. I think a system like BF2142 / guild wars works nice. Whereas I can earn loot from pvp. I suppose full loot could rock but it would depend on how its' worked in
the OP is confused though PE will provide ffapvp servers (without full loot) - that is not what this game is about since it will be shipped without craft there will be no 'simple items' economy to support full lootin and will be uber gear
Well if thats the case, then the drops will no doubt be so plentiful you will have tons of spare gear. Like all item-centric games if you kill a duck, his corpse will somehow have a chest piece with +10 strength and +5 macing. Don't ask me how a duck got that chest piece, but somehow he did.
the OP is confused though PE will provide ffapvp servers (without full loot) - that is not what this game is about since it will be shipped without craft there will be no 'simple items' economy to support full lootin and will be uber gear
Well if thats the case, then the drops will no doubt be so plentiful you will have tons of spare gear. Like all item-centric games if you kill a duck, his corpse will somehow have a chest piece with +10 strength and +5 macing. Don't ask me how a duck got that chest piece, but somehow he did.
like it or loathe it, the game is not aiming to be hard-core pvp + looting so prolly isnt for you - it is aiming for more of a tactical element to combat - quest heavy pve with lots of pvp content (arena pvp tables and rankings) and RvR with expansions
yes it is "phat-loot" heavy - no i dont know if rats drop glowing "2handedaxesoffierydeath" and spiders have their own economy that require them to carry money pouches
the OP is confused though PE will provide ffapvp servers (without full loot) - that is not what this game is about since it will be shipped without craft there will be no 'simple items' economy to support full lootin and will be uber gear
Well if thats the case, then the drops will no doubt be so plentiful you will have tons of spare gear. Like all item-centric games if you kill a duck, his corpse will somehow have a chest piece with +10 strength and +5 macing. Don't ask me how a duck got that chest piece, but somehow he did.
Well yes and no. This game will have raiding. That means it will take someone some serious dedication to get uber lootz. Thus, lootz isn't really plentiful. full looting doesnt work too well with an item centric game. ppl will get hella mad if someone steals an item they worked weeks and weeks for. you know we are talking extremely rare items here- like 5% less drop rates and u raiding the same instance for 5+ hrs over and over til u get it. im not really interested in this game cause it has raiding to be honest unless they offer some alternative like Im hoping. but anyway, I think full lootin doest work too well in a raid heavy game like this one
... will no doubt be so plentiful you will have tons of spare gear. Like all item-centric games if you kill a duck, his corpse will somehow have a chest piece with +10 strength and +5 macing. Don't ask me how a duck got that chest piece, but somehow he did.
Well yes and no. This game will have raiding. That means it will take someone some serious dedication to get uber lootz. Thus, lootz isn't really plentiful. full looting doesnt work too well with an item centric game. ppl will get hella mad if someone steals an item they worked weeks and weeks for. you know we are talking extremely rare items here- like 5% less drop rates and u raiding the same instance for 5+ hrs over and over til u get it. im not really interested in this game cause it has raiding to be honest unless they offer some alternative like Im hoping. but anyway, I think full lootin doest work too well in a raid heavy game like this one
hmmm. another one making statements contrary to what PE have already stated - perhaps a good place for those new to the game should visit Deo's space (GnH [former] community manager) http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=12
"So by now everyone has heard about the apparent "death" of the 40-man raid system, and I personally only have one thing to say about that.It's about time...
The idea that high-end content should be that extreme also strikes me as a little crazy. Now there is a way to implement 40-man content and make it a lot of fun, but I personally think that requiring 40-players to take down one mob that drops a few small pieces of loot is pretty lame. We've talked about having 40-man content that scales based on how many players and minions you have in your party, and you'll certainly see a scalable grouping system once the game goes live. But what if, and just bear with me on this one, what if 40-man content didn't revolve around killing 1 super tough mob, but instead involved serious full-scale combat with an overwhelming opposing force? Something that required strategy, minion control, and coordination beyond what anyone has had to deal with before. It should be something that had a better system of loot distribution and gave more players a wider opportunity to be rewarded for their part in a significant battle."
and regarding rare-loot distribution
Did anyone ever play the original EverQuest? Now don't misunderstand me, I really, really loved that game. In fact, I can't tell you how happy I was when they launched the progressive servers, but alas, I digress. About 3 months after launch, when you hit level 20 there was this cool axe you could get off a named gnoll in Highpass Hold. It was pretty sweet and I could never get it. I was always so miffed because it was camped straight to the bowels of El Diablo and back and I never got the chance to get it. At some point I wound up getting the axe, and even a sweet Yakisha (remember when those used to be cool?), but the thing I remember thinking to myself was that there had to be a better way to distribute loot than this.
Eventually I came across Diablo II and I instantly loved the fact that you never really knew when or where you were going to find those rare drops, but you always knew it could happen at any moment. For those of you who never experienced Diablo II, let me just tell you that there was nothing like wading in to a mess of various baddies, slaughtering everything around you and then frantically collecting the ridiculous amounts of loot that had dropped everywhere. What made it even better is when you found the super rare drop amongst the rares and semi-rares. I always loved the fact that you knew you'd get something super sweet off a boss, but that you knew that if you killed enough average baddies that there was a chance that something equally as sweet would drop as well.
Comments
1. Higher stakes and risks will end up being more INTENSE pvp because you and your opponent knows there are larger consequences involved in losing. Everyone will try their best to survive! Some people like pvp to be INTENSE.
2. With intense pvp comes great patience and courage. Alot of times this is something younger kids that go around WoW griefing can't do. This will cause alot of griefers to be filtered out in the higher lvls.
3. PVP is like Poker. Poker isn't fun without money(stakes) on the line.
4. People who said pvp is supposed to be fun but don't want consequences are contradicting themselves (please give this some thought). Think about the basis and reason why people pvp. It is to come up top, it is to survive against the other! Don't you think people will fight harder to live with pvp consequences than someone not?
LoL, you're tired of carebears ruining the game for PvPers? LoL, Let me tell you what I'm sick of....
1. Balancing the PVE game because of PVP
2. Griefing/Ganking by rabid PVPers
3. The extensive whining in broadcast about how you cheated by using a heal, you aren't playing fair, you suck, etc, etc, etc.
PVP has ruined more games than I care to think about. If a game is going to have PvP, they should have open PVP servers and non-PVP servers. Make PVP balance changes to the PVP servers only. Leave the rest of us alone please!
Not one of the posters who want full loot PVP has answered some of the biggest problems:
First, well this isnt really a problem more a design decision. If you have a lvl cap and then endgame content all/most MMOs apply the same rule:
Effort + time = reward. This keeps your players occupied. If you can get some of the best gear in the game with a swift kill of a weakened or occupied player, you bypass those hours required to aquire that gear. This will keep some players going at it, killing player after player and with a good group and good tactics you might get yourself endgame gear in a few days instead of weeks. That shortens the life span of the game. The ppl who have killed and killed and got the "best" gear dont have anything to do, why raid for thing you already got?, why pvp other than "fun"(in this stage the Full loot PVP point is moot, players either kill to grief or because its "fun" but they dont really have much to gain from it). Its a bad design decision to have endgame PVE content that takes alot of time and effort and full loot pvp since it "shortens" the game time. Its doable if teh endgame IS pvp but this is not the case in this game atleast.
Secondly we have the Guild vs guild issue. You guys dont seem to be a fan of this idea either since its part consentual.
Still, if the guild leader decides wheter or not you go to war with another guild you get some problems. If its two major guilds, neither of them is probably able to do anything by themselfs. This would kill "casual" players or players that like to do thing on their own. Still Guild wars is a better system than FFA since you can choose not to participate. kinda depens though if both guilds have to agree or if you can just declare war on a guild and go about to attack them. If its the latter you get the same deal again. One guild could "kill" a whole server, just decaring war after war on any guild they can find untill they have looted em back to sticks and stones. No thanks, too much power will be abused, especially in MMOs.
The only reasonable decision i can get to with full loot pvp is to have it in specified zones, you choose to enter it, but know you can loose all your stuff, place some really great things in these zones to motivate players beyond just attacking eachother.
This could be implemented into G&H with an expansion that unlocks a new nation. Battlefields etc.
I really want a short explanation on how Full loot FFA pvp in all zones of the world would work, without breaking the game, designwise or playerwise in a game like G&H.
Having that said i really look forward to G&H. Now if i just could get into the damn beta
Let's put it straight:
Full loot in PVP = no one taking the risk = no one subscribing or chosing this server = not many people actually playing the game = universe becomes quasi-empty, deserted and uninteresting = the game slowly disappears as all MMORPG without gamers...
So, I guess Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, Battlefield and countless other games have meaningless pvp cause players dont have to sweat bout being killed? I'm sorry but I just dont agree with your reasoning here. I'd like to see some sort of realistic looting implemented but then if we really want to keep it real then you should just stay dead after you die. You know, like in Counterstrike.
Anyway I voted 'no' a few weeks ago but forgot to post my reasons. I'd like to see full looting server, etc but I dont think its required to make PvP meaningful. I think a system like BF2142 / guild wars works nice. Whereas I can earn loot from pvp. I suppose full loot could rock but it would depend on how its' worked in
the OP is confused
though PE will provide ffapvp servers (without full loot) - that is not what this game is about
since it will be shipped without craft there will be no 'simple items' economy to support full lootin and will be uber gear
like it or loathe it, the game is not aiming to be hard-core pvp + looting so prolly isnt for you - it is aiming for more of a tactical element to combat - quest heavy pve with lots of pvp content (arena pvp tables and rankings) and RvR with expansions
yes it is "phat-loot" heavy - no i dont know if rats drop glowing "2handedaxesoffierydeath" and spiders have their own economy that require them to carry money pouches
Well yes and no. This game will have raiding. That means it will take someone some serious dedication to get uber lootz. Thus, lootz isn't really plentiful. full looting doesnt work too well with an item centric game. ppl will get hella mad if someone steals an item they worked weeks and weeks for. you know we are talking extremely rare items here- like 5% less drop rates and u raiding the same instance for 5+ hrs over and over til u get it. im not really interested in this game cause it has raiding to be honest unless they offer some alternative like Im hoping. but anyway, I think full lootin doest work too well in a raid heavy game like this one
hmmm. another one making statements contrary to what PE have already stated - perhaps a good place for those new to the game should visit Deo's space (GnH [former] community manager) http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/forum.jspa?forumID=12
"So by now everyone has heard about the apparent "death" of the 40-man raid system, and I personally only have one thing to say about that.It's about time...
The idea that high-end content should be that extreme also strikes me as a little crazy. Now there is a way to implement 40-man content and make it a lot of fun, but I personally think that requiring 40-players to take down one mob that drops a few small pieces of loot is pretty lame. We've talked about having 40-man content that scales based on how many players and minions you have in your party, and you'll certainly see a scalable grouping system once the game goes live. But what if, and just bear with me on this one, what if 40-man content didn't revolve around killing 1 super tough mob, but instead involved serious full-scale combat with an overwhelming opposing force? Something that required strategy, minion control, and coordination beyond what anyone has had to deal with before. It should be something that had a better system of loot distribution and gave more players a wider opportunity to be rewarded for their part in a significant battle."
and regarding rare-loot distribution
Did anyone ever play the original EverQuest? Now don't misunderstand me, I really, really loved that game. In fact, I can't tell you how happy I was when they launched the progressive servers, but alas, I digress. About 3 months after launch, when you hit level 20 there was this cool axe you could get off a named gnoll in Highpass Hold. It was pretty sweet and I could never get it. I was always so miffed because it was camped straight to the bowels of El Diablo and back and I never got the chance to get it. At some point I wound up getting the axe, and even a sweet Yakisha (remember when those used to be cool?), but the thing I remember thinking to myself was that there had to be a better way to distribute loot than this.
Eventually I came across Diablo II and I instantly loved the fact that you never really knew when or where you were going to find those rare drops, but you always knew it could happen at any moment. For those of you who never experienced Diablo II, let me just tell you that there was nothing like wading in to a mess of various baddies, slaughtering everything around you and then frantically collecting the ridiculous amounts of loot that had dropped everywhere. What made it even better is when you found the super rare drop amongst the rares and semi-rares. I always loved the fact that you knew you'd get something super sweet off a boss, but that you knew that if you killed enough average baddies that there was a chance that something equally as sweet would drop as well.