You can't compare smoking to porn. One actually harms people, and is outlawed in many states. I can't smoke at Waffle House any more, but it's law that decided that, not Waffle House. Porn doesn't affect anyone, and if it's so readily available, what could it hurt to have it in motels? I mean, you're saying it's ridiculously easy to find, so outlawing it in motels wouldn't stop youth from viewing it...so what's the point of your argument? Hamburgers are readliy available, but would I find it ridiculous if someone tried to outlaw them from McDonald's. Yea, I can go to Wendy's, but my rights have been infringed. I have no problem with free speech, but when that free speech tries to take away my rights it has crossed the line.
Sure you can. There are many 'experts' who claim that pornography does harm people. Just like there are 'experts' who say smoking harms people. What is wrong with some hotels deciding not to show porn in their rooms? They are privately run businesses and have that right as such.
There is an anti-McDonalds lobby. There is an anti-SUV lobby. There is an anti-abortion lobby. There is an anti-gun lobby. There is an anti-oil lobby. There are a billion special interest groups who all have a right, no matter how ridiculous, to petition the government and business to get their way.
Originally posted by honzolo You're missing the whole point.
Do you want the "Family Research Council" picking and choosing what you are allowed to watch and not watch? Do you want any group picking and choosing that?
It's not about porn in hotel rooms. It's about the principle of the whole thing.
What you should care about is people wanting to take your freedoms away. It starts out innocent and grows from there. That's why you stand up for yourself from the beginning. And you also stand up for people that you may not even agree with. Because you may be next and those people standing up for your freedom may keep you from losing them. You stand up for the principle idea of freedom, not each and every seperate issue. But the issue as a whole.
You're missing the whole point.
Do you want the "Family Research Council" picking and choosing what you are allowed to watch and not watch? Do you want any group picking and choosing that?
It's not about porn in hotel rooms. It's about the principle of the whole thing.
What you should care about is people wanting to take your freedoms away. It starts out innocent and grows from there. That's why you stand up for yourself from the beginning. And you also stand up for people that you may not even agree with. Because you may be next and those people standing up for your freedom may keep you from losing them. You stand up for the principle idea of freedom, not each and every seperate issue. But the issue as a whole.
Businesses have a right to decide for themselves their own policies. People have a right to ask businesses to cater to them. If a restaurant you go to decides to not allow smoking in their restaurant you have the choice of whether or not to frequent the establishment. Same with this 'hotel porn' issue. These people have a right to petition these businesses to not have porn channels in the hotel rooms. Some hotels will decide to remove their porn service if they feel it will cost them more money and trouble than it will make them. Other hotels will decide to keep their porn, because Reavo always stays there and spends an extra $100 per night watching porn.
This is not taking your freedom away. You are free to go to another hotel that has porn service. If every hotel in the area does not have porn service, you can bring your DVD player or VCR and your own porn stash with you. Porn is readily available through many other means. If they were to ban porn altogether, then you might be able to make the case that you have lost your freedom to watch porn. But we live in the Pornography Age, a legendary time in which you can access porn on a whim.
On the other hand, you want to shut down these people's right to free speech. They are merely expressing themselves in an effort to make change. THAT is the essence of freedom. But you disagree with them, therefore they must be shut up. People and groups in this country are allowed to petition the government to shape law and the direction we go in. You may disagree with them, and you have the right to petition the government in opposition to them.
I, personally don't care that there is porn in my hotel room or not. I'm male... I like seeing naked chicks as much as the next guy. But these people have a right to their freedom of speech just like you or I.
It's got nothing to do with porn. It's got to do with the boldness that certain groups are showing when it comes to restricting other peoples rights to make their own decisions about things. What upsets me is that groups like this don't care about living under the American system anymore. They would rather not tolerate other peoples behavior that they disagree with. It's not enough for them to have control over their lives, they want to gain control over others too.
It also bothers me that it's coming from the Republican camp. The Republicans used to call themselves the party of personal responsibility, smaller government, and protection of your Constitutional rights. Now they have been taken over by a bunch of Bible carrying authoritarians.
It's got nothing to do with porn. It's got to do with the boldness that certain groups are showing when it comes to restricting other peoples rights to make their own decisions about things. What upsets me is that groups like this don't care about living under the American system anymore. They would rather not tolerate other peoples behavior that they disagree with. It's not enough for them to have control over their lives, they want to gain control over others too. It also bothers me that it's coming from the Republican camp. The Republicans used to call themselves the party of personal responsibility, smaller government, and protection of your Constitutional rights. Now they have been taken over by a bunch of Bible carrying authoritarians. Thomas Jefferson warned us about these people.
I am apprehensive about these groups for pretty much the same reasons you are.
But ....
Americans of every part of the political spectrum are plenty bold about lobbying to affect how businesses behave, and in ways that impact consumers. This isnt, however, a Constitutional issue. The Constitution only speaks to your protection against government action. If the Federal Trade Commission were pressuring hotels to drop porn channels, then I'd be blowing a gasket. But a private party, that's a different animal.
If Hugh Hefner wants to start a lobbying group to pressure hotels to carry MORE porn, that's his right. And if it is, then these folks must be within their rights, too.
Another reason why america is losing the national and personal freedom that was established long ago. We now have the CWA on our asses. Down with conservatives.
As a conservative I can say that this small group is certainly NOT a representative for the whole conservative movement by any means. Crass generalizing this as "those conservatives", as in ALL conservatives is flat out ignorant. It's no more true than me saying "All liberals are anti-american communists who hate thier country"....
It's always easy to point to one small faction of a large party or group and say "thats the way they all are..."
It's got nothing to do with porn. It's got to do with the boldness that certain groups are showing when it comes to restricting other peoples rights to make their own decisions about things. What upsets me is that groups like this don't care about living under the American system anymore. They would rather not tolerate other peoples behavior that they disagree with. It's not enough for them to have control over their lives, they want to gain control over others too.
It also bothers me that it's coming from the Republican camp. The Republicans used to call themselves the party of personal responsibility, smaller government, and protection of your Constitutional rights. Now they have been taken over by a bunch of Bible carrying authoritarians.
Thomas Jefferson warned us about these people.
There are a zillion special interest groups who do the same thing from the left/right spectrum. There are people who want to say you can't drive an SUV in America. There are plenty of people who want to ban people's religion. There is fascism from the left every bit as much as from the right. Its just interesting that the only time you seem to complain about it is when its coming from the far right. I feel the story you posted is a non-story. That there are special interest groups out there who use political influence to get their way is a given. You may as well post an article that says water is wet, most grass is green, and Democrats don't win national elections. It's pretty obvious. We as average Americans who like porn are free to organize and lobby business and government to maintain our "right" to watch porn in our hotel rooms. in opposition.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! This "curtail hotel porn" is good, in my opinion. Do you know how many CHILDREN go to hotels? Do you want them to flip through channels and find this stuff? Bloody pedophile, you are. "Conservative" means: to conserve the rights and freedoms of all legal citizens, and to ensure the economic and moral growth of the nation... obviously this ONE "incriminating" link is supposed thwart that party and all it's meaning, for the sake of pornography... which is not ethically right. Personally, I'm glad they're getting rid of a bit of it, pornography destroys minds with liberals being the result. The economy's going down hill now. Why? Bill Clinton set up NAFTA with China, it's taking it's toll now. Thanks Clinton, for making China a better place to live. Who cares about the mother nation, though... it's just a stupid country that isn't even worth protecting /end sarcasm. Liberals can never grasp the concept of "patriotism" for some reason. Of course, liberals never tried ANYthing against people's wishes... never. Not non-mandatory abortion or same-sex marriage, and escpecially not stealing money from tax payers by voting themselves raises or playing the stock market. /end sarcasm. That's just to name a few minor things, here's a list: http://www.republicanresearch.com/Pages/liberals.html Abortion goes against "thou shalt not kill", whether you're religious or not, it's a universal law that applies to everyone. If the mother's health is in danger and wanted the baby but risks her life, or someone was raped, those are exceptions. Regardless of your opinion, an unborn child is alive because it has the potential to live. Why not just practice abstinence until marriage? Oh, right... that's too hard for you lazy liberal baby-kicking wankers. http://whyliberalssuck.blogspot.com/2005/03/its-my-embryo-its-my-choice.html http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/45411/abortion_the_killing_of_innocents.html As a liberal, you hate conservatives because thay're "taking away your precious hotel porn". Serisouly... that's just plain stupid. If all you have is that article of crap, then you're a sad excuse for a human... your mother should have followed your family beliefs and aborted.
So, someone is a pedophile because they believe they should have the right to decide what they want to watch? Hardly. I think it's take a little more effort than just flipping through channels.
Who are you to tell people what is ethically right? You're assuming everyone is xtian, I think. See, xtians always assume their opinion on all things is right and the law bywhich everyone else must live by. Not my religion, not my set of ethics. Personally, I don't think people prying into what I do in my own free time is ethical.
I'm not sure why you threw in the Clinton/China crap. But I guess I could ask how is Bush a patriot? If he cared about this country, we wouldn't be cutting funds for homeland security for the sake of bombing brown people on the other side of the world. Protecting our borders should be oneof our top priorities right now. I mean, it's not like these terrorists are moving to Mexico, learning spanish and blending in with Mexicans to sneak into our country.
I'm not going into the whole liberal vs. conservative bit that much. They both do shitty things, they both have lemons in their parties. I don't claim to be either. I personally choose things for myself, not what some little group of people tell me to think. I don't need Bush to tell me the world sucks and I don't need Kerry to tell me Bush sucks.
Your abortion arguement is weak in my eyes to. Again you go on about "Thou shalt not kill" being a universal law and not a religious one. First, where did that phrase come from? Christianity is not a universal law, no matter what you xtians think. I don't believe in any law based on the bible and many don't. Who are you to tell someone what they do with their lives, bodies, families? The rest of your anti-liberal smacktalk makes you sound like you're stealing all your comedic material from Ann Coulter. Talking out your ass, making no sense at all. But it doesn't matter if we can say some cutelittle phrases slamming a group of people. Why do conservatives hate everything that doesn't agree with them? I mean you people hate so much it turns you people into playground bullies with your name calling and pouting.
As a conservative you hate people who would like to make decisions on their own, non- christians, brown people, gay people, or just anyone that doesn't live by xtian rules. Seriously, that's just plain stupid.
Again, I'm not a liberal or conservative. I see good on both sides. But man, people like you and that other man, Ann Coulter are just so far out there you have no clue how the world really works. Not everyone lives by xtian law, not everyone believes in your god. That's the problem with the hateful, spiteful far right of our society.
Comments
Sure you can. There are many 'experts' who claim that pornography does harm people. Just like there are 'experts' who say smoking harms people. What is wrong with some hotels deciding not to show porn in their rooms? They are privately run businesses and have that right as such.
There is an anti-McDonalds lobby. There is an anti-SUV lobby. There is an anti-abortion lobby. There is an anti-gun lobby. There is an anti-oil lobby. There are a billion special interest groups who all have a right, no matter how ridiculous, to petition the government and business to get their way.
Do you want the "Family Research Council" picking and choosing what you are allowed to watch and not watch? Do you want any group picking and choosing that?
It's not about porn in hotel rooms. It's about the principle of the whole thing.
What you should care about is people wanting to take your freedoms away. It starts out innocent and grows from there. That's why you stand up for yourself from the beginning. And you also stand up for people that you may not even agree with. Because you may be next and those people standing up for your freedom may keep you from losing them. You stand up for the principle idea of freedom, not each and every seperate issue. But the issue as a whole.
Businesses have a right to decide for themselves their own policies. People have a right to ask businesses to cater to them. If a restaurant you go to decides to not allow smoking in their restaurant you have the choice of whether or not to frequent the establishment. Same with this 'hotel porn' issue. These people have a right to petition these businesses to not have porn channels in the hotel rooms. Some hotels will decide to remove their porn service if they feel it will cost them more money and trouble than it will make them. Other hotels will decide to keep their porn, because Reavo always stays there and spends an extra $100 per night watching porn.
This is not taking your freedom away. You are free to go to another hotel that has porn service. If every hotel in the area does not have porn service, you can bring your DVD player or VCR and your own porn stash with you. Porn is readily available through many other means. If they were to ban porn altogether, then you might be able to make the case that you have lost your freedom to watch porn. But we live in the Pornography Age, a legendary time in which you can access porn on a whim.
On the other hand, you want to shut down these people's right to free speech. They are merely expressing themselves in an effort to make change. THAT is the essence of freedom. But you disagree with them, therefore they must be shut up. People and groups in this country are allowed to petition the government to shape law and the direction we go in. You may disagree with them, and you have the right to petition the government in opposition to them.
I, personally don't care that there is porn in my hotel room or not. I'm male... I like seeing naked chicks as much as the next guy. But these people have a right to their freedom of speech just like you or I.
It's got nothing to do with porn. It's got to do with the boldness that certain groups are showing when it comes to restricting other peoples rights to make their own decisions about things. What upsets me is that groups like this don't care about living under the American system anymore. They would rather not tolerate other peoples behavior that they disagree with. It's not enough for them to have control over their lives, they want to gain control over others too.
It also bothers me that it's coming from the Republican camp. The Republicans used to call themselves the party of personal responsibility, smaller government, and protection of your Constitutional rights. Now they have been taken over by a bunch of Bible carrying authoritarians.
Thomas Jefferson warned us about these people.
But ....
Americans of every part of the political spectrum are plenty bold about lobbying to affect how businesses behave, and in ways that impact consumers. This isnt, however, a Constitutional issue. The Constitution only speaks to your protection against government action. If the Federal Trade Commission were pressuring hotels to drop porn channels, then I'd be blowing a gasket. But a private party, that's a different animal.
If Hugh Hefner wants to start a lobbying group to pressure hotels to carry MORE porn, that's his right. And if it is, then these folks must be within their rights, too.
Another reason why america is losing the national and personal freedom that was established long ago. We now have the CWA on our asses. Down with conservatives.
As a conservative I can say that this small group is certainly NOT a representative for the whole conservative movement by any means. Crass generalizing this as "those conservatives", as in ALL conservatives is flat out ignorant. It's no more true than me saying "All liberals are anti-american communists who hate thier country"....
It's always easy to point to one small faction of a large party or group and say "thats the way they all are..."
It also bothers me that it's coming from the Republican camp. The Republicans used to call themselves the party of personal responsibility, smaller government, and protection of your Constitutional rights. Now they have been taken over by a bunch of Bible carrying authoritarians.
Thomas Jefferson warned us about these people.
There are a zillion special interest groups who do the same thing from the left/right spectrum. There are people who want to say you can't drive an SUV in America. There are plenty of people who want to ban people's religion. There is fascism from the left every bit as much as from the right. Its just interesting that the only time you seem to complain about it is when its coming from the far right. I feel the story you posted is a non-story. That there are special interest groups out there who use political influence to get their way is a given. You may as well post an article that says water is wet, most grass is green, and Democrats don't win national elections. It's pretty obvious. We as average Americans who like porn are free to organize and lobby business and government to maintain our "right" to watch porn in our hotel rooms. in opposition.
Who are you to tell people what is ethically right? You're assuming everyone is xtian, I think. See, xtians always assume their opinion on all things is right and the law bywhich everyone else must live by. Not my religion, not my set of ethics. Personally, I don't think people prying into what I do in my own free time is ethical.
I'm not sure why you threw in the Clinton/China crap. But I guess I could ask how is Bush a patriot? If he cared about this country, we wouldn't be cutting funds for homeland security for the sake of bombing brown people on the other side of the world. Protecting our borders should be oneof our top priorities right now. I mean, it's not like these terrorists are moving to Mexico, learning spanish and blending in with Mexicans to sneak into our country.
I'm not going into the whole liberal vs. conservative bit that much. They both do shitty things, they both have lemons in their parties. I don't claim to be either. I personally choose things for myself, not what some little group of people tell me to think. I don't need Bush to tell me the world sucks and I don't need Kerry to tell me Bush sucks.
Your abortion arguement is weak in my eyes to. Again you go on about "Thou shalt not kill" being a universal law and not a religious one. First, where did that phrase come from? Christianity is not a universal law, no matter what you xtians think. I don't believe in any law based on the bible and many don't. Who are you to tell someone what they do with their lives, bodies, families? The rest of your anti-liberal smacktalk makes you sound like you're stealing all your comedic material from Ann Coulter. Talking out your ass, making no sense at all. But it doesn't matter if we can say some cutelittle phrases slamming a group of people. Why do conservatives hate everything that doesn't agree with them? I mean you people hate so much it turns you people into playground bullies with your name calling and pouting.
As a conservative you hate people who would like to make decisions on their own, non- christians, brown people, gay people, or just anyone that doesn't live by xtian rules. Seriously, that's just plain stupid.
Again, I'm not a liberal or conservative. I see good on both sides. But man, people like you and that other man, Ann Coulter are just so far out there you have no clue how the world really works. Not everyone lives by xtian law, not everyone believes in your god. That's the problem with the hateful, spiteful far right of our society.