The Social Cost of SWG....

chlaos · September 2006

Perhaps the demise of SWG is actually a good thing for me.....

I know this post and its honesty are going to open me up to some ridicule, but so be it. Believe it or not, I am an attractive 36 year old female with many social options. I have played video games off and on since I was 9, I saw the original Star Wars in the theater with my dad and have been obsessed with the mythos ever since. I have always played RPG almost exclusively, admittedly my gameplay decreased dramatically from my 20's until SWG came out. My whole life, I have always dated who I wanted to and had all the friends I could handle.

In May of 2003 my fiance died, he was a beautiful, kind, and brilliant man, and shortly afterwards I went into a deep depression. A few months later, almost as a random afterthought, I wandered into an Electronics Boutique and saw a copy of Star Wars Galaxies for sale and read the back of it. It said something to the effect of "Live your own Star Wars Experience", and hell that sounded like a pretty good idea to me so I bought it. I had never played an online game of any sort, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. It was a few days later before I logged in, but from that point on I was completely infatuated. At that point in my life, it was exactly what I needed in that it allowed me a complete and utter escape from the pain I was feeling. Then lo and behold, I actually met new people who I came to care about and love as much as is possible in a virtual world. Things just got better and better through the years, there were changes I didnt like but just as many that I did. Most of all, my network of friends continued to grow and grow....

When the CU hit, I was terribly upset and voiced my displeasure quite loudly, but it was mostly ingame during a hunting party. Then the NGE came and I with everyone I had met since 2003 quit, spread to the wind like so many dandelion seeds, most to never be heard from again. There were a core few of us who tried to keep in touch, some went to WOW and I tried to follow just for the connection but it was so lacking for me that if they werent online I would immediately log off.

One good thing to come from the NGE for me has been that my work productivity, and pay, has increased dramatically. I have also opened myself back up socially, and get more than my fair share of offers.

This brings me to the point of my post. No matter how much I go out with friends, on dates, or to family functions, that I still just find myself missing SWG. Before you start blasting me, believe that I know that SWG was a way for me to keep from dealing with my grief and that I have begun to deal with that.

Still, I have to ask you guys if you have found old aspects of your life to not be as enjoyable as you used too?

Thanks for your muthafuggin time, on this muthafuggin post.

Ouchmuch · September 2006

I met my wife playing swg, she lives in the southern USA and I lived in Western Canada, many of my most trusted friends are in other countries on the globe, sadly since leaving swg I have lost touch with most of them.. but more importantly my wife is still sitting right beside me and has joined me in playig EvE

.

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by Ouchmuch
I met my wife playing swg, she lives in the southern USA and I lived in Western Canada, many of my most trusted friends are in other countries on the globe, sadly since leaving swg I have lost touch with most of them.. but more importantly my wife is still sitting right beside me and has joined me in playig EvE .

Thanks for responding, so many people just chalk this up to being a game and clearly for many it was much more. I would love to hear the details of yall's situation. Additionally, even though your together what have you guys found to be missing socially, if anything?

Persamus · September 2006

First off, let me express my condolences for your loss. I realize that such expressions seem weak in the face of such an event, nevertheless I cannot but feel humbled when I try to understand what it must feel like.

While it seems that many people do indeed repeat the phrase "this is just a game", whether to justify some rudeness, or to shrug off whatever attachment they have to the game or their characters (I think to avoid being labeled a nerd), this is a point of online gaming that I think few people are really willing to address, and I am glad that you have opened the door, so to speak.

I have played several mmorpgs, and while I made friends in those games, none of them captured my imagination like SWG. The freedom of action, of building your character physically, professionally, and socially, far exceeded any other games at the time. Of course, since I had loved SW since the first movie came out, it was a natural fit.

All of that, however, does not address the point you have brought up, mainly the socially engaging nature of online gaming in general, and SWG in particular. To try and make my position more apparant, first I would like to say that I do not engage in pvp fighting. This is because I feel that behind each "character" is a person, who to some extent has some attachment for their avatar. To do violence to such an avatar is, in effect, doing violence to the person behind it, regardless of the artificial remove. As a part of that, I see avatars not simply as a character in a game, but an extension of the person.

I miss the people I had come to know during my adventures online, and often find myself thinking about the good times we had together. Not that I am going to say that every moment in the game was rosy, but that the relationships built during the game were more than just casual aquaintences. The anger I felt when SOE made their "upgrades" hurt more than it should have, and I realized just how much I had invested in this virtual experience.

Which brings up another aspect of mmorpg gaming, namely that it did become more than just a game. I have several times tried to tell others that, just as you might e-mail someone, or call them on the phone, the virtual nature of the world can become a way of truly interacting with other people in a meaningful way. Just was we correspond with family and friends at great distances (which I once did, from around the world), the connections formed in the game with other people can become just as real as with any other kind of relationship, because what matters is the communication which takes place. In some ways it can become quite meaninful in game, because of the way that avatars can interact with each other, even giving emotes and expressions.

While the slow and painful death of SWG has certainly caused me some distractions, I do not think it has reduced my appreciation of "real world" friendships and activites. Though in some ways I enjoyed playing SWGs more than doing other things (and I certainly spent a lot of time doing it

), I would rather think of SWG as having given me a wonderful new experience that allowed me to express myself in new ways, and perhaps even helped me to understand other people better. I could hope that another game can come along that would give me some of the same abilities to express myself, and allow for the kinds of interactions that became a hallmark of the SWG experience.

I hope that what I have expressed can equate in some way to he kind of experience that you expressed you enjoyed in SWG, and to let you know that you are by no means strange, wierd, or unusual (unless , of course, you want to be

).

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by Persamus
First off, let me express my condolences for your loss. I realize that such expressions seem weak in the face of such an event, nevertheless I cannot but feel humbled when I try to understand what it must feel like.

While it seems that many people do indeed repeat the phrase "this is just a game", whether to justify some rudeness, or to shrug off whatever attachment they have to the game or their characters (I think to avoid being labeled a nerd), this is a point of online gaming that I think few people are really willing to address, and I am glad that you have opened the door, so to speak.   I think you get it, at its best MMO's are capabel of being more than just games.   Thanks for being able to see that.

I have played several mmorpgs, and while I made friends in those games, none of them captured my imagination like SWG. The freedom of action, of building your character physically, professionally, and socially, far exceeded any other games at the time. Of course, since I had loved SW since the first movie came out, it was a natural fit.
Exactly......
All of that, however, does not address the point you have brought up, mainly the socially engaging nature of online gaming in general, and SWG in particular. To try and make my position more apparant, first I would like to say that I do not engage in pvp fighting. This is because I feel that behind each "character" is a person, who to some extent has some attachment for their avatar. To do violence to such an avatar is, in effect, doing violence to the person behind it, regardless of the artificial remove. As a part of that, I see avatars not simply as a character in a game, but an extension of the person.
OMG...your actually another person with actual feelings,,,,im both honored and amazed.....nice to meet you.   /smile
I miss the people I had come to know during my adventures online, and often find myself thinking about the good times we had together. Not that I am going to say that every moment in the game was rosy, but that the relationships built during the game were more than just casual aquaintences. The anger I felt when SOE made their "upgrades" hurt more than it should have, and I realized just how much I had invested in this virtual experience.
To me that was the whole point, that was what made it real to me, by that i mean that there were expereinces i like and experiences that i didnt. just like there were people who i like and people i didnt like.   Again, to me it was the virtual star wars life that was promised, sold, and delivered that was important.
Which brings up another aspect of mmorpg gaming, namely that it did become more than just a game. I have several times tried to tell others that, just as you might e-mail someone, or call them on the phone, the virtual nature of the world can become a way of truly interacting with other people in a meaningful way. Just was we correspond with family and friends at great distances (which I once did, from around the world), the connections formed in the game with other people can become just as real as with any other kind of relationship, because what matters is the communication which takes place. In some ways it can become quite meaninful in game, because of the way that avatars can interact with each other, even giving emotes and expressions.
You and me, my friend are on the exact same page.....thank you
While the slow and painful death of SWG has certainly caused me some distractions, I do not think it has reduced my appreciation of "real world" friendships and activites. Though in some ways I enjoyed playing SWGs more than doing other things (and I certainly spent a lot of time doing it ), I would rather think of SWG as having given me a wonderful new experience that allowed me to express myself in new ways, and perhaps even helped me to understand other people better. I could hope that another game can come along that would give me some of the same abilities to express myself, and allow for the kinds of interactions that became a hallmark of the SWG experience.
This is the ideal, in my way of thinking, and i pray i can get to this point....
I hope that what I have expressed can equate in some way to he kind of experience that you expressed you enjoyed in SWG, and to let you know that you are by no means strange, wierd, or unusual (unless , of course, you want to be ).

Thank you so much for your heartfelt and thought out answers, they mean a great deal to me.....

Darklighter1 · September 2006

I am too tired to write all my feelings in regards to this post, so I will keep it short.

I am very sorry for your loss. I agree with your post that this game was not just a mindless game. It was a community that I was proud to be a part of...and dearly miss. And I truly wish you well on your road to happiness. God bless.

almagill · September 2006

/hug chlaos

You summed up my thoughts on the game pretty much as I would have done. It's not 'just a game' but a virtual space in which people interact via avatars.

Much the same can be said for any MMO but as this is a SWG forum oviously SWG did it best

Actually that's only half joking, I think SWG was certainly out in front when it came to the social game. The presence of non-combat professions (and the choice for those playing an entertainer/artisan to have some combat skills) meant that SWG drew in a lot of social minded people and that was very much to the games benefit.

Where did I learn most about the game? In cantinas, chatting to the entertainers, listening to the uberleet combat toons ripping on their buddy who was stood dancing in hotpants as he ground Master Dancer in the hope that that was what'd get him the unlock. Hanging out in camps with other scouts and rangers and being told how to kite, single pull, use traps and snares effectively in what seemed like the most natural way.

Sure, other games have got their global / zone / profession chat tabs and there's folk in there answering the newb questions like how to change weapons, set up a template, craft, heal but it's not (virtual) face to (virtual) face. There will be friendships there, but, meh, it's not the same.

The extension of SWG from the game environment out into 'the real world' via podcasts, meetups, fanfests etc shows that there's a need in the players to have more than 'just a game'. I've made a few good friends thru the game, some from backgrounds that'd have meant that we never crossed paths in the real world, and it's been good learning about their lives, experiences, thoughts.

Like Chlaos I used the game as a way of dealing with something difficult in the real world, though I'd come to the game way before that happened. Just having a space to hang out with people who had a common interest and weren't going to push for more details than I was wanting to give out at that moment got me past a pretty tough place. Often ingame when I meet another player, I have to remind myself that their behaviour, attitude, etc is an extension of their RL feelings and they too might be carrying a load and using the game as a bit of therapeutic escapism.

The slow decline of the game seems to ave driven away a lot of the more thoughtful, social players (not least because the professions that most attracted that type of personality have been hard hit) and I'm now turning a lot of the energy that used to go into the game into more useful RL stuff. Having said that, it was useful having the game there as an incentive for me to get stuff done before. I'd promise myself that, say, if I finished x,y,z chores or did this pile of paperwork, then I'd "treat myself" to an extra afternoon of gametime.

Now? For the most part I whore myself on the forums, fan boards, blogs and my periods of time ingame are getting fewer and shorter. And what I miss most are the social players. (Oh, and my guild, my next door eighbours, that blue twi'lek dancer who was so funny, the 'goth' zabrak....

)

jrscott · September 2006

So far everybody that has posted on this topic has done a wonderful job of expressing what made pre-CU SWG different. I always thought of my character Bradshaw Lightyear as an extension of me. And he truly was. I'm an entrepreneur centered around computer technology in real life. It is a form of crafting really, putting together the right hardware, OS, database, and then coding the software. And I am very helpful to my clients, generous to a degree to make sure they get the most out of my creations.

I was able to extend my real life personality into SWG. I became a crafter, a weaponsmith to be precise. Weaponsmith in the pre-CU did not have to be mind-numbing, in fact it reminded me of programming in certain ways. Then I took up some merchant skills so I could sell my craft, much like I do in real life. So I had a thriving small business in SWG much like I do IRL. And lastly, I took up Rifleman so I could be the dashing hero I never had the chance to be IRL. I was even able to come to the aid of a non-combat oriented woman in distress on one occasion as she was attacked by Tuskens while tending her wearables factory.

I started playing the game with others who played in a fashion very similar to me. We lived in our small Tatooine city, mostly unaware of the idiocy of the holocron craze and grinding. We truly lived in the Star Wars galaxy, and the game lived up to it's hype back then.

The days of chasing holocrons eventually started to disrupt our community as a few members were lured in to the concept of becoming powerful jedi. Then players started to quit the game because it had become a grind instead of the alternate life we had.

One of my good friends left the game and it was never, ever the same. I remember when she said goodbye for the last time and logged off. We all sat around watching as her avatar stood lifeless in front of us..waiting on it to go "poof". We talked about how sweet she was, and generous, and how we all knew things were suddenly becoming different and her leaving was proof. She was quitting because her husband was tired of the hologrind and quitting. They played together, so they quit together.

Finally her avatar disappeared, and I actually had tears in my eyes. Of course my RL wife still gets angry at that, but that's because she doesn't believe me when I tell her had the mayor of our town left, I would have likely done the same and he's a male. So yeah, my wife got jealous of a being in a virtual world.

But anyhow, she went poof and everybody that was there just left without typing a word. I suspect I was not the only one disturbed by that scene. It just felt so final. In fact, after that event I left the city because I could not bear the memory of that scene, and others avoided the city as well and it died. There are a few buildings where the city stood, but only one of them were there when Hunter's Paradise existed.

When the CU and NGE disrupted the crafting systems and economy in the way that they did, I was no longer able to play the game in the fashion I used to. It forced me to change my style to be more combat oriented, which really did not suit me. I build things, not destroy them. I might build things that allow people to destroy, but that's not my problem.

So to me, it was not just a matter of lost friendships, as great as that loss was. But it was also the forced transformation of my character into something he wasn't. I lost a way of expressing myself and that is a source of my anger at SOE. In a way I guess, they killed a small part of me.

I have to congratulate Raph Koster on being able to design an experience that deep. It is quite an accomplishment. I'm sorry SOE destroyed it too.

Persamus · September 2006

Originally posted by chlaos

Thank you so much for your heartfelt and thought out answers, they mean a great deal to me.....

Thank you for your comments (/smile right back at ya!), its always refreshing to see that there are individuals who can see beyond the facade of the game, and realise that we shared in a rich social, and fun

, experience that was SWG. I would also like to thank everyone who has contributed to this post, and created one of the more contemplative threads on this board.

Sometimes I truly wonder at the kind of communities that managed to spring up in the game, and how I could talk, joke around with, and sometimes even get to know people from around the world. When people talk about the sandbox nature of the game that was, it never seems to really capture what we had. The "sandbox" metaphore might be inadequate, as it conjures up an image of children playing, and what was going on was far more complex and meaningful. Well, perhaps it's not so wrong, but a sandbox is too limited, we used the entire beach!

But perhaps just having a sandbox game, in and of itself, is not enough. SWG moved us becasue of the magic that is SW. I have a feeling that the people that miss it the most are those who, as children, were really caught up in the magic, the immagination, and the epic vision that Lucas brought to the big screen. Nowadays, the old SW episode 4 can be seen as quaint by many, with so many films using eye popping special effect out there. Because we were there, when it started, and it was so new and fresh, it carried us into the story. Perhaps it is the damage to our cherished memories that hurts so much, as much as the other reasons we might have for our dissapointment with SOE.

Oh, I finally noticed you Franklin quote, very amusing

.

I like another of BFs quote, which I think might be appropriately said of SOE: "Greed is the most pernicious of all vices, for it cannot be satisfied by a certain measure." B. Franklin

MX13 · September 2006

You're not alone. My Fiancee and I, both in our 30's, played Galaxies. She bought me the Pre-Order, then after watching me "Entertain" in Cantinas on our Plasma TV, she became hooked watching me play & decided to play herself. I actually wasn't planning on playing it, knowing that we'd never see a weekend party again. She decided I loved SW too much not to.

The NGE was good and bad for us. We lived in a major city and grew VERY tired of it, so we decided to move to the country. That was last summer, then the NGE hit in the fall and took away a major entertainment source for us. But we found a ton of fun doing other things.

We look at gaming differently now. We both plan on playing MMO's again when a good one comes along, but even if there was a pre-CU, we won't be playing as much as we did SWG. We miss it, it was a golden time for us. We've met a LOT of RL friends in the game... We never thought we'd feel that way about a game, but we did, and it left a "entertainment/social hole" in our lives, as strange as that sounds...

Thanks for the post, hope to see you in another MMO!

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by almagill
/hug chlaos

You summed up my thoughts on the game pretty much as I would have done. It's not 'just a game' but a virtual space in which people interact via avatars.

Much the same can be said for any MMO but as this is a SWG forum oviously SWG did it best Actually that's only half joking, I think SWG was certainly out in front when it came to the social game. The presence of non-combat professions (and the choice for those playing an entertainer/artisan to have some combat skills) meant that SWG drew in a lot of social minded people and that was very much to the games benefit.

Where did I learn most about the game? In cantinas, chatting to the entertainers, listening to the uberleet combat toons ripping on their buddy who was stood dancing in hotpants as he ground Master Dancer in the hope that that was what'd get him the unlock. Hanging out in camps with other scouts and rangers and being told how to kite, single pull, use traps and snares effectively in what seemed like the most natural way.

Sure, other games have got their global / zone / profession chat tabs and there's folk in there answering the newb questions like how to change weapons, set up a template, craft, heal but it's not (virtual) face to (virtual) face. There will be friendships there, but, meh, it's not the same.

The extension of SWG from the game environment out into 'the real world' via podcasts, meetups, fanfests etc shows that there's a need in the players to have more than 'just a game'. I've made a few good friends thru the game, some from backgrounds that'd have meant that we never crossed paths in the real world, and it's been good learning about their lives, experiences, thoughts.

Like Chlaos I used the game as a way of dealing with something difficult in the real world, though I'd come to the game way before that happened. Just having a space to hang out with people who had a common interest and weren't going to push for more details than I was wanting to give out at that moment got me past a pretty tough place. Often ingame when I meet another player, I have to remind myself that their behaviour, attitude, etc is an extension of their RL feelings and they too might be carrying a load and using the game as a bit of therapeutic escapism.

The slow decline of the game seems to ave driven away a lot of the more thoughtful, social players (not least because the professions that most attracted that type of personality have been hard hit) and I'm now turning a lot of the energy that used to go into the game into more useful RL stuff. Having said that, it was useful having the game there as an incentive for me to get stuff done before. I'd promise myself that, say, if I finished x,y,z chores or did this pile of paperwork, then I'd "treat myself" to an extra afternoon of gametime.

Now? For the most part I whore myself on the forums, fan boards, blogs and my periods of time ingame are getting fewer and shorter. And what I miss most are the social players. (Oh, and my guild, my next door eighbours, that blue twi'lek dancer who was so funny, the 'goth' zabrak.... )

/hug almagill I sense a kindred spirit who may have had some very similar experiences both ingame and out.

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by jrscott

So far everybody that has posted on this topic has done a wonderful job of expressing what made pre-CU SWG different. I always thought of my character Bradshaw Lightyear as an extension of me. And he truly was. I'm an entrepreneur centered around computer technology in real life. It is a form of crafting really, putting together the right hardware, OS, database, and then coding the software. And I am very helpful to my clients, generous to a degree to make sure they get the most out of my creations.
My reasons were almost completely different, and yet are experience was similarly captivating. As a legislative advocate (lobbyist) and later going into counseling, the last thing i wanted to play was a politician. But it was great that i had the option. .....
I was able to extend my real life personality into SWG. I became a crafter, a weaponsmith to be precise. Weaponsmith in the pre-CU did not have to be mind-numbing, in fact it reminded me of programming in certain ways. Then I took up some merchant skills so I could sell my craft, much like I do in real life. So I had a thriving small business in SWG much like I do IRL. And lastly, I took up Rifleman so I could be the dashing hero I never had the chance to be IRL. I was even able to come to the aid of a non-combat oriented woman in distress on one occasion as she was attacked by Tuskens while tending her wearables factory.
In SWG i got to be things i could never be in real life, ie a crafter (Master Shipwright) and an adventurer of the highest order (mulititude of variations on the CH and or Doc temp).
I started playing the game with others who played in a fashion very similar to me. We lived in our small Tatooine city, mostly unaware of the idiocy of the holocron craze and grinding. We truly lived in the Star Wars galaxy, and the game lived up to it's hype back then. This is what it was all a obout, you could be wha ever you wanted and do it within you own community. Which is of course what the box promised....
The days of chasing holocrons eventually started to disrupt our community as a few members were lured in to the concept of becoming powerful jedi. Then players started to quit the game because it had become a grind instead of the alternate life we had. Hologrind was the beginning of the end, for exactly the reasons you mention.
One of my good friends left the game and it was never, ever the same. I remember when she said goodbye for the last time and logged off. We all sat around watching as her avatar stood lifeless in front of us..waiting on it to go "poof". We talked about how sweet she was, and generous, and how we all knew things were suddenly becoming different and her leaving was proof. She was quitting because her husband was tired of the hologrind and quitting. They played together, so they quit together. A pox on anyone who says this was just a game, with experiences like that it is no longer a game, and damn them for taking it away.....
Finally her avatar disappeared, and I actually had tears in my eyes. Of course my RL wife still gets angry at that, but that's because she doesn't believe me when I tell her had the mayor of our town left, I would have likely done the same and he's a male. So yeah, my wife got jealous of a being in a virtual world. She just doesnt understand. Give her time....
But anyhow, she went poof and everybody that was there just left without typing a word. I suspect I was not the only one disturbed by that scene. It just felt so final. In fact, after that event I left the city because I could not bear the memory of that scene, and others avoided the city as well and it died. There are a few buildings where the city stood, but only one of them were there when Hunter's Paradise existed.
When the CU and NGE disrupted the crafting systems and economy in the way that they did, I was no longer able to play the game in the fashion I used to. It forced me to change my style to be more combat oriented, which really did not suit me. I build things, not destroy them. I might build things that allow people to destroy, but that's not my problem.
So to me, it was not just a matter of lost friendships, as great as that loss was. But it was also the forced transformation of my character into something he wasn't. I lost a way of expressing myself and that is a source of my anger at SOE. In a way I guess, they killed a small part of me.
I have to congratulate Raph Koster on being able to design an experience that deep. It is quite an accomplishment. I'm sorry SOE destroyed it too.

Thank you for sharing yourself with me, peace my brother.....

iskareot · September 2006

Originally posted by Ouchmuch
I met my wife playing swg, she lives in the southern USA and I lived in Western Canada, many of my most trusted friends are in other countries on the globe, sadly since leaving swg I have lost touch with most of them.. but more importantly my wife is still sitting right beside me and has joined me in playig EvE .

It's to bad that so many adults and fans have been driven from the game. If you think about it, we did not leave due to change but because there was no place for us in this game.

Change is one thing, changing into somthing that you cannot even count as a MMO rather a multiplayer bad fps...

Short of them having flag points and bases, it could be one giant capture the flag game with alot of lag and neat looking explosions.

Each day that goes by I hope to see a post about a Dev team member getting canned or fired for this blunder.. sure execs play a role but the Dev team could explain that it's not a good idea.

I would hate to be in thier shoes.

Rabia · September 2006

The Demise of SWG is a good thing for gamers. It means that we won't tolerate SOE's behavior.

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by Persamus

Originally posted by chlaos

Thank you so much for your heartfelt and thought out answers, they mean a great deal to me.....

Thank you for your comments (/smile right back at ya!), its always refreshing to see that there are individuals who can see beyond the facade of the game, and realise that we shared in a rich social, and fun

, experience that was SWG. I would also like to thank everyone who has contributed to this post, and created one of the more contemplative threads on this board.

Sometimes I truly wonder at the kind of communities that managed to spring up in the game, and how I could talk, joke around with, and sometimes even get to know people from around the world. When people talk about the sandbox nature of the game that was, it never seems to really capture what we had. The "sandbox" metaphore might be inadequate, as it conjures up an image of children playing, and what was going on was far more complex and meaningful. Well, perhaps it's not so wrong, but a sandbox is too limited, we used the entire beach!

But perhaps just having a sandbox game, in and of itself, is not enough. SWG moved us becasue of the magic that is SW. I have a feeling that the people that miss it the most are those who, as children, were really caught up in the magic, the immagination, and the epic vision that Lucas brought to the big screen. Nowadays, the old SW episode 4 can be seen as quaint by many, with so many films using eye popping special effect out there. Because we were there, when it started, and it was so new and fresh, it carried us into the story. Perhaps it is the damage to our cherished memories that hurts so much, as much as the other reasons we might have for our dissapointment with SOE.

Oh, I finally noticed you Franklin quote, very amusing

.

I like another of BFs quote, which I think might be appropriately said of SOE: "Greed is the most pernicious of all vices, for it cannot be satisfied by a certain measure." B. Franklin

I agree that sandbox is incomplete, but so far I cant come up with anything else. I also think that SWG in the "sandbox" style was great because of what Star Wars represents to those of us from the original trilogy. Mainly an expansive, open, wondrous universe where anything is possible. Not one where we are held by the hand and led through a series of hallways where we are told to shoot a "boss" bug in a confined room.

I like your BF quote as well, I think thats a new one on me. /cheers

KenshuAni · September 2006

Originally posted by Persamus

But perhaps just having a sandbox game, in and of itself, is not enough. SWG moved us becasue of the magic that is SW. I have a feeling that the people that miss it the most are those who, as children, were really caught up in the magic, the immagination, and the epic vision that Lucas brought to the big screen. Nowadays, the old SW episode 4 can be seen as quaint by many, with so many films using eye popping special effect out there. Because we were there, when it started, and it was so new and fresh, it carried us into the story. Perhaps it is the damage to our cherished memories that hurts so much, as much as the other reasons we might have for our dissapointment with SOE.

I definately agree that just having a sandbox game is not enough. I read a little about Second Life, and from what I read it could be considered the ultimate sandbox. However, I have no urge to play the game because it seems to lack something to unify the players.

With SWG we had that something. Star Wars. If you met someone new in SWG you most likely had at least one thing in common - you both had likely seen and liked at least one of the movies.

jrscott · September 2006

Originally posted by KenshuAni

With SWG we had that something. Star Wars. If you met someone new in SWG you most likely had at least one thing in common - you both had likely seen and liked at least one of the movies.

Yeah, I can see that as one reason we came together as a community to support the game (and later to trash it too ).

But I wonder if another game had the sandbox AND SciFi AND Fantasy elements like SWG but was not Star Wars - would we care? I'm kinda hoping we would as I am beginning to do everything I can to get one started with proper funding.

Sempayw · September 2006

I´m 35 years old, I only played games like Medal of Honor,Call of Duty etc etc ......action games.

I had never played an mmo; when someone suggested me about playing mmos,strategy games ....I said ' Bahh thats boring,I just like action'.

3 years ago, one day after work I went into a game store and I saw the box '' Star Wars Galaxies".

I bought it cause I thought it was a shooter or some action based SW game hehehe.

(not even I installed it)

When I realized it was a mmo ........... I got upset lol and put away the game.

2 months after this ,I was at home and looking for my lost wedding ring hehe I found Star Wars Galaxies Box in the wardrove. I took the box,and I dont know why I stood looking at it for some time because some words atracted my attention ,those words said I could live my own SW experience.

I smoked a ciggy,and I installed it.

'' This was the best thing I could do'''

After 1 week I was in love with that game. I didnt miss action games. I loved the social aspect of the game.

I didnt want to pvp,I felt like in other world ,it was completely different to what I had experienced before in any game.it was great. Suddenly I hated the games like Quake etc etc and just wanted to play SWG.

I made lots of friends; Some of them I met them in real life; I remember looking at my watch at work looking forward to go home and play SWG cause I had arranged to meet my guild to go to the nightsisters cave.

Hell..How I miss those times.

Whe NGE hit, I left cause as many of you have said there was no place for us in game.

Now after a few months in City of Heroes I dont play any games any more.

When I come from work,after a hard day coding vs Oracle ,I just look in internet hoping some day I will see a post about PreCu or Cu coming Back or the developers and Smed being fired.

And after that I play with my cat hehe.

Im happy 3 years ago I bought that box by error;

/Bow to you all

KenshuAni · September 2006

Originally posted by jrscott

Originally posted by KenshuAni

With SWG we had that something. Star Wars. If you met someone new in SWG you most likely had at least one thing in common - you both had likely seen and liked at least one of the movies.

Yeah, I can see that as one reason we came together as a community to support the game (and later to trash it too ).

But I wonder if another game had the sandbox AND SciFi AND Fantasy elements like SWG but was not Star Wars - would we care? I'm kinda hoping we would as I am beginning to do everything I can to get one started with proper funding.

Before SWG, I would say that such a game would not draw in the numbers and the community needed. If such a game has heavy non-combat gameplay and interdependancy between profession skillsets, it needs to draw in heavy numbers of players that enjoy the social game.

Example: I think it is safe to say that those of us posting in this forum are avid gamers. I would say that nearly all of us immensly enjoy the combat aspect of games, while considerably fewer of the MMORPG (in total) posters also enjoy non-combat gameplay as well. As such, the game might be lacking in sufficient numbers of the non-combat game players.

However, this might have changed with SWG. Because of it's appeal, it was able to bring in other people that might not have played MMORPGs before (as evidenced by the many posts stating that SWG was their first). And now there is a large number of players that have tasted such gameplay and they might be more receptive to it in the future.

LilT · September 2006

Last night I was playing Wow and started talking with my good friend about SwG and all the fun we had. We started talking about the people we wish we could meet irl that played and there are so many people that I just really miss.

I just get overwhelmed when I think about how i'll never "see" all those people again and how it seemed like such a great group of friends just got scattered like dust into the wind. Sure, I might be able to drop a line in to someone on msn everyonce in a while, but we'll never all be together again just standing around in Theed and doing the /duck dance for hours at a time or something equally as stupid and wonderful. It will never be the same.

Looking at screenshots of swg is like looking at a photo album of dead friends, as morbid as that sounds. And I think it all seems worse because we didnt part of our own free will, it was like someone invaded our world and drove us out. Before we knew what was happening, we were refugess scattered to the four corners of the earth, literally.

There are other's i play Wow with from SWG, but it's not the same, at all. You cant do the duck dance in Orgrimmar.

And somehow we always end up saying "remember in swg when...".

Another reason I miss swg so much is because it's where I met my fiance, the places we first "met" we can never go back to. Our first "dates" we can never do again. It sounds ridiculous to me when I write that down, but it's true.

*sigh* i dont know what the point of my ramblings are, I guess just that even after a year later, i still feel the loss of my SWG community just as sharp as if it were yesterday. And it sucks. And im gonna cry now thx.

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by Sempayw

I´m 35 years old, I only played games like Medal of Honor,Call of Duty etc etc ......action games.
I had never played an mmo; when someone suggested me about playing mmos,strategy games ....I said ' Bahh thats boring,I just like action'.
3 years ago, one day after work I went into a game store and I saw the box '' Star Wars Galaxies".
I bought it cause I thought it was a shooter or some action based SW game hehehe.
(not even I installed it)
When I realized it was a mmo ........... I got upset lol and put away the game.
2 months after this ,I was at home and looking for my lost wedding ring hehe I found Star Wars Galaxies Box in the wardrove. I took the box,and I dont know why I stood looking at it for some time because some words atracted my attention ,those words said I could live my own SW experience.
I smoked a ciggy,and I installed it.
'' This was the best thing I could do'''
After 1 week I was in love with that game. I didnt miss action games. I loved the social aspect of the game.
I didnt want to pvp,I felt like in other world ,it was completely different to what I had experienced before in any game.it was great. Suddenly I hated the games like Quake etc etc and just wanted to play SWG.
I made lots of friends; Some of them I met them in real life; I remember looking at my watch at work looking forward to go home and play SWG cause I had arranged to meet my guild to go to the nightsisters cave.
Hell..How I miss those times.
Whe NGE hit, I left cause as many of you have said there was no place for us in game.
Now after a few months in City of Heroes I dont play any games any more.
When I come from work,after a hard day coding vs Oracle ,I just look in internet hoping some day I will see a post about PreCu or Cu coming Back or the developers and Smed being fired.
And after that I play with my cat hehe.
Im happy 3 years ago I bought that box by error;
/Bow to you all

I appreciate each every one of yours posts on this, but this is getting much closer to what I was curious about.

Am I the only one who suffered any repercussions from the game both during and after playing? Dont get me wrong, it served a very valuable purpose at the time but I played too much to my own detriment. Additonally, once it was gone my enjoyment of regular life things that I used to love has diminshed greatly.

After rereading my original post, I see that I spent too much time describing my love and original purpose behind the game, and very little talking about motivation for the post. We have spent immense time on here talking about what we miss about the game. I am hoping for just a little time about the consequences of teh game, unless of course im the only one dealing with this.....in which case just go ahead and call the guys in the white jumpsuits to come take me away......

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by LilT
Last night I was playing Wow and started talking with my good friend about SwG and all the fun we had. We started talking about the people we wish we could meet irl that played and there are so many people that I just really miss.

I just get overwhelmed when I think about how i'll never "see" all those people again and how it seemed like such a great group of friends just got scattered like dust into the wind. Sure, I might be able to drop a line in to someone on msn everyonce in a while, but we'll never all be together again just standing around in Theed and doing the /duck dance for hours at a time or something equally as stupid and wonderful. It will never be the same.

Looking at screenshots of swg is like looking at a photo album of dead friends, as morbid as that sounds. And I think it all seems worse because we didnt part of our own free will, it was like someone invaded our world and drove us out. Before we knew what was happening, we were refugess scattered to the four corners of the earth, literally.

There are other's i play Wow with from SWG, but it's not the same, at all. You cant do the duck dance in Orgrimmar. And somehow we always end up saying "remember in swg when...".

Another reason I miss swg so much is because it's where I met my fiance, the places we first "met" we can never go back to. Our first "dates" we can never do again. It sounds ridiculous to me when I write that down, but it's true.

*sigh* i dont know what the point of my ramblings are, I guess just that even after a year later, i still feel the loss of my SWG community just as sharp as if it were yesterday. And it sucks. And im gonna cry now thx.

Ok now I feel bad for starting this, but I was just hurting and trying to see if anyone else could relate to my feelings. /hug Lilt

Im sorry hun, somehow this thread got of course a bit. I know we have had plenty of tearjerker threads and most of us miss so many things and people. Ive just had a hard time returning to the life that i knew before the game, I mean ive done it quite successfully but I just dont seem to enjoy it very much, and that was what i was trying to ask people about. It makes me cry when i thing of all the friends that ive lost to the winds of the net since the nge, but I dont know what to do about it...,..

Sorry I upset you dearheart....

Persamus · September 2006

_________________________________________________________________________________

Originally posted by Chlaos
Ok now I feel bad for starting this, but I was just hurting and trying to see if anyone else could relate to my feelings.

/hug Lilt

Im sorry hun, somehow this thread got of course a bit. I know we have had plenty of tearjerker threads and most of us miss so many things and people. Ive just had a hard time returning to the life that i knew before the game, I mean ive done it quite successfully but I just dont seem to enjoy it very much, and that was what i was trying to ask people about. It makes me cry when i thing of all the friends that ive lost to the winds of the net since the nge, but I dont know what to do about it...,..

________________________________________________________________________________

Please don't feel bad for starting this thread, becasue I think I do understand what it is you are trying to express, and very few other people seem willing to go there. This is a difficult subject, and I myself often think about what it means for me, and all those who post about this.

The more I think of it, the more I wonder what it is we are really trying to come to grips with. I think it is significant that SWG could so profoundly affect so many people, and miss it so much that we talk about it many months after SOE made those fundamental changes that ruined the game experience for us.

Perhaps SWG gave us something we needed at the time that nothing else could easily replace.

While there are many mmorpgs out there, we came to SWG. Part of this, I think, can be attributed to the “sandbox”, part to the ambiance, and even part to the safety factor that mmorpgs provide, in that meeting people in game gives some measure of privacy and security that we all need from time to time. Perhaps it came from the level of customization available for our avatars, and that we could be far more individualistic than most mmorpgs allow, or from the ability to have non-combat characters that were valid and needed, and had a purpose in the “world”.

Maybe it is all these things, or perhaps it is something else.

But for any of these reasons, or all of them together, is it enough to have caused such grief at its loss? Or is there more, some connection that we were able to have to the game that no other experience could replace? I think, perhaps, that it has to do with some fundamental aspect of the imagination, that in combination with the above factors, permitted us to realize a kind of symbiosis with the game, and the people we shared it with. Perhaps the fragile balance that allowed this symbiosis to occur was shattered when SOE made it changes to chase a far more, shall we say, “simplified” game play that would attract a larger audience.

Because of this, I have a feeling that even should the “ducks” fully succeed with their efforts, that perhaps the “magic” we experienced before will not ever manifest again in this way. As Chlaos mentioned at the beginning of her post, perhaps this is for the best. I think there is something we are all looking for, in some way, and that for a time SWG allowed us some measure of whatever that something may be. I do not know what “it” is, and possibly it is up to each of us to find “it” in our own way.

Or maybe I am full of *edit*! Whatever “it” is, I recommend having fun finding “it”, because being melancholy takes to much fun out of life, and I choose to be in a good mood, because I can! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

chlaos · September 2006

________________________________________________________________________________

Please don't feel bad for starting this thread, becasue I think I do understand what it is you are trying to express, and very few other people seem willing to go there. This is a difficult subject, and I myself often think about what it means for me, and all those who post about this.

The more I think of it, the more I wonder what it is we are really trying to come to grips with. I think it is significant that SWG could so profoundly affect so many people, and miss it so much that we talk about it many months after SOE made those fundamental changes that ruined the game experience for us. Perhaps SWG gave us something we needed at the time that nothing else could easily replace.

While there are many mmorpgs out there, we came to SWG. Part of this, I think, can be attributed to the “sandbox”, part to the ambiance, and even part to the safety factor that mmorpgs provide, in that meeting people in game gives some measure of privacy and security that we all need from time to time. Perhaps it came from the level of customization available for our avatars, and that we could be far more individualistic than most mmorpgs allow, or from the ability to have non-combat characters that were valid and needed, and had a purpose in the “world”.

Maybe it is all these things, or perhaps it is something else. But for any of these reasons, or all of them together, is it enough to have caused such grief at its loss? Or is there more, some connection that we were able to have to the game that no other experience could replace? I think, perhaps, that it has to do with some fundamental aspect of the imagination, that in combination with the above factors, permitted us to realize a kind of symbiosis with the game, and the people we shared it with. Perhaps the fragile balance that allowed this symbiosis to occur was shattered when SOE made it changes to chase a far more, shall we say, “simplified” game play that would attract a larger audience.

Because of this, I have a feeling that even should the “ducks” fully succeed with their efforts, that perhaps the “magic” we experienced before will not ever manifest again in this way. As Chlaos mentioned at the beginning of her post, perhaps this is for the best. I think there is something we are all looking for, in some way, and that for a time SWG allowed us some measure of whatever that something may be. I do not know what “it” is, and possibly it is up to each of us to find “it” in our own way.

Or maybe I am full of *edit*! Whatever “it” is, I recommend having fun finding “it”, because being melancholy takes to much fun out of life, and I choose to be in a good mood, because I can! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

WOW!! Bravo! You said what I was reaching for, but you did so much more eloquently than I have been capable of so far. This is what ive been trying to get at, trying to reach, trying to understand. Both inside myself, and what ive sensed but not felt expressed in others.

I realize the degree of honesty and self-deprecation this requires is humbling, and even painfull. It opens one up to potential ridicule, but isnt this what we have been trying to say for so many months? Isnt this why no other MMO's are able to fullfill our thirst? Or is it just us few....Us lonesome few?

Persamus · September 2006

Originally posted by chlaos

_______________________________________________________________

Please don't feel bad for starting this thread, becasue I think I do understand what it is you are trying to express, and very few other people seem willing to go there. This is a difficult subject, and I myself often think about what it means for me, and all those who post about this.

The more I think of it, the more I wonder what it is we are really trying to come to grips with. I think it is significant that SWG could so profoundly affect so many people, and miss it so much that we talk about it many months after SOE made those fundamental changes that ruined the game experience for us. Perhaps SWG gave us something we needed at the time that nothing else could easily replace.

While there are many mmorpgs out there, we came to SWG. Part of this, I think, can be attributed to the “sandbox”, part to the ambiance, and even part to the safety factor that mmorpgs provide, in that meeting people in game gives some measure of privacy and security that we all need from time to time. Perhaps it came from the level of customization available for our avatars, and that we could be far more individualistic than most mmorpgs allow, or from the ability to have non-combat characters that were valid and needed, and had a purpose in the “world”.

Maybe it is all these things, or perhaps it is something else. But for any of these reasons, or all of them together, is it enough to have caused such grief at its loss? Or is there more, some connection that we were able to have to the game that no other experience could replace? I think, perhaps, that it has to do with some fundamental aspect of the imagination, that in combination with the above factors, permitted us to realize a kind of symbiosis with the game, and the people we shared it with. Perhaps the fragile balance that allowed this symbiosis to occur was shattered when SOE made it changes to chase a far more, shall we say, “simplified” game play that would attract a larger audience.

Because of this, I have a feeling that even should the “ducks” fully succeed with their efforts, that perhaps the “magic” we experienced before will not ever manifest again in this way. As Chlaos mentioned at the beginning of her post, perhaps this is for the best. I think there is something we are all looking for, in some way, and that for a time SWG allowed us some measure of whatever that something may be. I do not know what “it” is, and possibly it is up to each of us to find “it” in our own way.

Or maybe I am full of *edit*! Whatever “it” is, I recommend having fun finding “it”, because being melancholy takes to much fun out of life, and I choose to be in a good mood, because I can! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

WOW!! Bravo! You said what I was reaching for, but you did so much more eloquently than I have been capable of so far. This is what ive been trying to get at, trying to reach, trying to understand. Both inside myself, and what ive sensed but not felt expressed in others.
I realize the degree of honesty and self-deprecation this requires is humbling, and even painfull. It opens one up to potential ridicule, but isnt this what we have been trying to say for so many months? Isnt this why no other MMO's are able to fullfill our thirst? Or is it just us few....Us lonesome few?

No, I don't think it is just us. I think many people have been feeling this, but perhaps opening oneself up just the way you have mentioned is too painful for many, so they hide it with anger, resentment, pretending no to care, anything to avoid admitting that maybe it was something more than a game.

For myself, I know that I have taken this situation harder than I would have thought. Because of that, I have tried to examine why. I haven't yet come up with a satisfactory answer, though I think it is significant perhaps in learning who I am. Also, if I can somehow come up with a idea that would allow me to really move past this experience, and learn from it, I think that would be worthwhile not only for myself, but also for others who can benefit from that insight. Discussing it outloud on the other hand can lead to new insights and new ideas, which is why I value this thread, and thank you for starting it. Most would not have done this, even I didn't, so I commend your courage in starting it.

I am not sure where this will end up, but if we can stick with it, it might just help.

chlaos · September 2006

Originally posted by Persamus

Originally posted by chlaos

WOW!! Bravo! You said what I was reaching for, but you did so much more eloquently than I have been capable of so far. This is what ive been trying to get at, trying to reach, trying to understand. Both inside myself, and what ive sensed but not felt expressed in others.
I realize the degree of honesty and self-deprecation this requires is humbling, and even painfull. It opens one up to potential ridicule, but isnt this what we have been trying to say for so many months? Isnt this why no other MMO's are able to fullfill our thirst? Or is it just us few....Us lonesome few?

No, I don't think it is just us. I think many people have been feeling this, but perhaps opening oneself up just the way you have mentioned is too painful for many, so they hide it with anger, resentment, pretending no to care, anything to avoid admitting that maybe it was something more than a game.

For myself, I know that I have taken this situation harder than I would have thought. Because of that, I have tried to examine why. I haven't yet come up with a satisfactory answer, though I think it is significant perhaps in learning who I am. Also, if I can somehow come up with a idea that would allow me to really move past this experience, and learn from it, I think that would be worthwhile not only for myself, but also for others who can benefit from that insight. Discussing it outloud on the other hand can lead to new insights and new ideas, which is why I value this thread, and thank you for starting it. Most would not have done this, even I didn't, so I commend your courage in starting it.

I am not sure where this will end up, but if we can stick with it, it might just help.

I know I have taken it much harder than I could have possibly imagined three years ago, and therein lies my dilemna and my motivation for the post. The examination of the causes and results can be nothing but positive and healthy in my opinion.

Who said, "The unexamined life is not worth living" .....oh yeah, that Socrates guy. He was pretty sharp, for an old dead dude.... Sorry, I couldnt resist...Im weak that way.

Obviously, I believe in mixing in some humor with my pain and self exploration. I know we have some other on here with the courage to come forward. What say you.....

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